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Speaker 1: Today, flying cars and airspace rights. This one is absolutely

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Speaker 1: right out of science fiction. I'm Michael Thompson from Fear

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Speaker 1: and Greed Business News, and I'm joined by Stefan from

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Speaker 1: alts dot co, the alternative market research You need to

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Speaker 1: be a better investor.

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Speaker 2: Stefan, Hello, Michael Hayden.

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Speaker 1: I'm going pretty well now. Before we get going, of course,

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Speaker 1: this podcast isn't investment advice. It's a starting point for

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Speaker 1: your research, and you shall get professional advice before investing.

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Speaker 1: This topic today is one that I know very little about,

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Speaker 1: but I just think this is fascinating stuff. Airspace rights,

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Speaker 1: flying cars, It just sounds completely ridiculous, But let's start

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Speaker 1: with the basics. Airspace rights, what are they all?

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Speaker 2: Right? So this is we're gonna go full Jetson's today, Michael.

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Speaker 2: This is definitely futuristic. Look, the future is here, the

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Speaker 2: technology is here, right, that's not the problem. There's an

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Speaker 2: inconvenient truth in this industry, in this world though, and

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Speaker 2: that's around the airspace rights. So it works like this.

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Speaker 2: Think of the space above your home or above a

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Speaker 2: building as like a giant vertical space that shoots up

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Speaker 2: into the sky. Right now, everything above six hundred feet

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Speaker 2: is typically depending on the country, is typically controlled by

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Speaker 2: the government, So in the case of the United States,

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Speaker 2: it's the FAA. There's rules very like crazy across different countries,

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Speaker 2: but basically it's five hundred six hundred feet and above

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Speaker 2: that air space is owned by the government. However, below

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Speaker 2: that is where it gets really really murky. In most

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Speaker 2: of the develop word that world, that space is actually

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Speaker 2: owned by the landowners.

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Speaker 1: Right, Oh really, so it's whoever owns the property underneath

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Speaker 1: it would actually have the rot to that first six

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Speaker 1: hundred feet of space above.

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Speaker 2: Typically, yes, and that air space is where most of

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Speaker 2: the new kind of air services are looking to operate.

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Speaker 2: So that includes like deliveries, drone deliveries, you know, food delivery,

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Speaker 2: what Amazon's trying to do. Air taxis to some degree

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Speaker 2: are trying to operate in that space. And it's the

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Speaker 2: problem is that there's it's not like there's a law

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Speaker 2: that restricts that airspace. It's not like there's you know,

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Speaker 2: something in the way. It's the fact that there is

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Speaker 2: no protocol that exists. It's just not something that the

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Speaker 2: federal government has control over. Now, local governments, depending on

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Speaker 2: the government, can approve here and there and can carve

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Speaker 2: out some exceptions and this and that, but there is

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Speaker 2: just no framework in place all across the country and

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Speaker 2: all across the world that much of the developed world,

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Speaker 2: there's just nothing in place. So it's kind of this

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Speaker 2: wild West free for all right now, and that's what's

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Speaker 2: holding the industry back.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's look at the industry then, because I'm curious.

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Speaker 1: I can say why it needs regulation and needs to

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Speaker 1: be clarified as to who I's what and how it

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Speaker 1: can be used. But perhaps let's look at at kind

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Speaker 1: of how it would be used, because it does feel

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Speaker 1: very futuristic. Futuristic. It feels like the Jetsons drone deliveries.

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Speaker 1: Are these actually happening because we're saying for years that

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Speaker 1: talk of kind of pets is being delivered by drown

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Speaker 1: and dominos for instance, did talked about it, and it

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Speaker 1: feels a little bit like a gimmick. But is it

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Speaker 1: progressing beyond that point?

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Speaker 2: Yes, but not to the degree and speed of which

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Speaker 2: we were promised, you know, this kind of joke in

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Speaker 2: the tech industry, like we were promised flying cars and

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Speaker 2: we got you know, one hundred and forty characters or whatever,

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Speaker 2: and that's kind of been the case. Again, it's not

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Speaker 2: the technology that's holding everyone back. When you know, we

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Speaker 2: first kind of saw that the technology start to blossom,

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Speaker 2: everyone got really excited about what was possible. There's a

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Speaker 2: lot of presentations made and Amazon, you know, showing like

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Speaker 2: the deliveries, like going back and forth, but the hype

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Speaker 2: is still very much hype and not reality. Now that said,

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Speaker 2: there are definite that there is definitely so a real

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Speaker 2: progress being made in various pockets around the world. So

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Speaker 2: I think the first place to start and to look

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Speaker 2: at what's happening is actually in Africa, especially in the

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Speaker 2: country of Rwanda. Now there's a US company called Zipline,

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Speaker 2: which is a drone logistics delivery company, and they've partnered

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Speaker 2: with the government in Rwanda to deliver medical supplies, blood, vaccines,

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Speaker 2: medications to the population, which in Rwanda is disproportionately remote,

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Speaker 2: so more than almost any other country. You've got a

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Speaker 2: huge percentage of people in Rwanda living out away from

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Speaker 2: the city. So this is where drone delivery is absolutely happening.

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Speaker 2: The government is working actively with Zipline to deliver and

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Speaker 2: that is definitely happening. Now we don't see that on

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Speaker 2: the ground. That is definitely happening as far as like

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Speaker 2: the US is concerned. In Australia, there are pockets of

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Speaker 2: progress in the US. You're seeing some trials happen in Texas,

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Speaker 2: very small little suburbs here and there. This is not

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Speaker 2: like a state wide thing. North Carolina's doing some In Australia,

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Speaker 2: they're doing some trails up in Melbourne, up in Melbourne,

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Speaker 2: up and I wish it was in Melbourne. Up in Queensland,

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Speaker 2: they're doing door dash deliveries with Wing, which is owned

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Speaker 2: by Google or Alphabet. So there are pockets of progress,

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Speaker 2: but it is by no means mainstream.

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Speaker 1: Yepp. It's interesting that you mentioned Africa and it also

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Speaker 1: demonstrates how difficult it is to make it work financially

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Speaker 1: in this industry. There was a company in Australia called

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Speaker 1: Swoop Aarrow that went into administration last year and had

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Speaker 1: to be restructured, and it was operating drones around the

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Speaker 1: world essentially out of Melbourne. They would have a pilot

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Speaker 1: operating out of a building in Melbourne and was capable

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Speaker 1: of flying five flights simultaneously around the world, and that

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Speaker 1: included medicines and things in Africa. It was doing vaccines

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Speaker 1: in Vanuatu and the South Pacific kind of all over

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Speaker 1: the place, and in the end that ran into a

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Speaker 1: bit of trouble last year, but it just kind of

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Speaker 1: shows that, yes, this thing, these things are happening, They

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Speaker 1: are trialing different things. There is a use for it,

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Speaker 1: particularly when you've got a really widely dispersed population in

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Speaker 1: a country and a continent like Africa, but it is

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Speaker 1: still hard to make it work as a business at

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Speaker 1: this point.

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Speaker 2: I think it's definitely hard to make it work, and

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Speaker 2: I think that it's something that governments around the world

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Speaker 2: need to take seriously. If they want this what they

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Speaker 2: call the low altitude economy to develop, they need to

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Speaker 2: get their you know what together and start to make

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Speaker 2: a framework for this. No. One place where this is

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Speaker 2: definitely happening is China.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was about to ask you. They seem to

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Speaker 1: be absolutely leading the way on this.

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Speaker 2: They are as far as the developed world. Yeah, China

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Speaker 2: is definitely leading the way. They you know, they have

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Speaker 2: the luxury of being a very top down government, which

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Speaker 2: you know, a lot of the rest of the anglosphere,

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Speaker 2: you know, doesn't necessarily have that luxury, but they're using

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Speaker 2: it to their advantage. They're basically fastering this low altitude economy,

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Speaker 2: opening up selling off basically airspace rates to to various

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Speaker 2: companies and creating these you know, rudimentary but the foundations

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Speaker 2: of what will become you know, highways in the sky,

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Speaker 2: corridors in the sky, very specific corridors along which delivery drones,

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Speaker 2: drone you know, drones and other UAVs can legally travel.

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Speaker 1: Flying cars. We talked about drones a lot and the

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Speaker 1: flying car side of things. This isn't just fiction either,

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Speaker 1: because and you mentioned the fact that the technology isn't

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Speaker 1: the thing that's holding us back. Right now, there's a company,

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Speaker 1: the company in the US is at Jobi Aviation. He

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Speaker 1: was the one that I've I've watched a lot of

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Speaker 1: videos on YouTube of their vehicles and they are fantastic

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Speaker 1: and they are probably the furthest along in terms of

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Speaker 1: the US, in terms of getting the clearances that they

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Speaker 1: need in order to be able to operate commercially.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's exactly right, Joey. I would say, you know,

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Speaker 2: of the half dozen to a dozen companies that are

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Speaker 2: operating in the US, Jobe does seem to be the

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Speaker 2: furthest ahead they're also you know, they have four of

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Speaker 2: the five certifications required. Now, remember with air taxis, you're

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Speaker 2: operating above five hundred feet, so it's not that same

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Speaker 2: problem we discussed earlier. But you still need FAA approval,

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Speaker 2: you need flight testing. There's a whole you know, lengthy

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Speaker 2: like certification progress, and Jobey is almost done. The other

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Speaker 2: thing you really need for these, though, is what they

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Speaker 2: call VTOLs, which is vertical takeoff and landing. So these

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Speaker 2: aren't like airplanes, which you know need a long runway

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Speaker 2: and an airport built they can take off. Basically, they're

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Speaker 2: basically like helicopters, right, They're electric helicopters, is what they are.

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Speaker 2: But you know, there's only you know, so many helicopter

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Speaker 2: pads in the city that exist, and very few of

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Speaker 2: them are on the ground. Usually they're the tops of

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Speaker 2: buildings and stuff like that. So part of this burgeoning

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Speaker 2: like low altitude economy is building these what are often

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Speaker 2: called verteports, which are basically like you know, large plaza

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Speaker 2: type spaces where certain companies own the space and can

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Speaker 2: take off and land their vehicles and mass, and that

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Speaker 2: will really allow for air taxis to really take off.

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Speaker 2: Now that's a whole other set of regulations and and

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Speaker 2: and you know, there's a whole lot baked into that.

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Speaker 2: But that's basically the idea. And Donald Trump is actually

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Speaker 2: one person, you know, lover mam, I hate him, who

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Speaker 2: is actually starting to really talk about this, this kind

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Speaker 2: of this concept.

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Speaker 1: I need to ask you about Donald Trump, because he

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Speaker 1: gave this whole concept a boost, didn't he during the

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Speaker 1: election campaign when he was talking about freedom cities? What

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Speaker 1: on earth is a freedom city? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Look, I mean Donald Trump talks about a lot of

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Speaker 2: things and not all of them come to fruition.

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Speaker 1: That's true.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I think that there's something to be

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Speaker 2: said about this idea of like, look, the regulation is

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Speaker 2: too there's too much legacy code in the regulation, so

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Speaker 2: to speak. Let's just start fresh. Let's let's use federal land, which,

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Speaker 2: by the way, the the US has a ton of

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Speaker 2: federal land land that was just federally owned. So they

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Speaker 2: actually do have the capability to basically build a whole

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Speaker 2: new city, a whole new protocol, an urban center that

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Speaker 2: you know, would house this flying car infrastructure. You know.

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Speaker 2: The idea is to to basically mimic what China is

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Speaker 2: doing and to start to take a lead in this

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Speaker 2: stuff and don't let them run away with it. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, like I said, love them or hate them,

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Speaker 2: that there's something to that vision.

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Speaker 1: I think, how big is the opportunity here? What is

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Speaker 1: this actually worth? How big is the potential industry? And

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Speaker 1: I'm not just talking the flying car side of things,

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Speaker 1: but the airspace rights. And you mentioned that China is

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Speaker 1: leading the way in terms of commercializing this and actually

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Speaker 1: licensing some of this space. What's it potentially worth?

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Speaker 2: The flying car market alone could be about a two

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Speaker 2: trillion dollar market in the next couple decades. Now, this

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Speaker 2: is vague and fuzzy, we don't know for sure, but

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Speaker 2: the point is this, that's just the that's just the hardware,

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Speaker 2: the real long term value where we get interested. You

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Speaker 2: know at alstot Co is in the airspace, right, So

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Speaker 2: think of owning this as like owning roads or pathways

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Speaker 2: before cars were invented. There's a whole bunch of underutilized

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Speaker 2: air rights in cities today you know that are worth

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Speaker 2: you know, you know, five hundred billion dollars and in

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Speaker 2: London it's fifty two billion, in New York it's it's

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Speaker 2: it's many times that And So what a lot of

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Speaker 2: companies are starting to realize and some are trying to do,

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Speaker 2: is actually creating a monetizable layer a marketplace for buying

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Speaker 2: and selling airspace rights. So one of these companies is

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Speaker 2: called Skytrade, and what they're doing is they've created a

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Speaker 2: platform that allow the property owners to basically sell the

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Speaker 2: space above their land. Now that doesn't necessarily, you know,

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Speaker 2: mean that you know, tomorrow we're going to start seeing

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Speaker 2: all these you know, flying cars in the sky and

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Speaker 2: drones and all that. But by creating this process and

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Speaker 2: this protocol and this official marketplace for buying and selling,

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Speaker 2: at least it removes a lot of the questions about

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Speaker 2: who owns the land and who is allowed to fly

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Speaker 2: in that land. And if we can kind of, you know,

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Speaker 2: start down that path that we could have these quarters

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Speaker 2: in the sky within the next decade or so, that.

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Speaker 1: Is extraordinary and a great place to leave it, I

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Speaker 1: think today. Now to find out more, head to alts

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Speaker 1: dot co sign up to the newsletter. This episode is

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Speaker 1: based on an edition of that newsletter, and you can

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Speaker 1: start learning about the future of alternative investing. Thank you

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Speaker 1: very much to fund Thanks Michael. Michael Thompson from fear

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Speaker 1: and greed. Business news for people who make their own decisions.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for your company,