Speaker 1: From the Skying In Center. This is Paul Murray Live.
Speaker 2: Holo Mate, forgive me too hot for Jackets Tonight We've
Speaker 2: got a big one ahead, including the great Nigel Ferrars
Speaker 2: joins us a great debate as expected. The first, let's
Speaker 2: getting the stuff that's around today now, as we know,
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister seems like he's heading for a brick
Speaker 2: wall when it comes to the upcoming federal election.
Speaker 1: Why because it just.
Speaker 2: Doesn't matter what he thinks or what he says about
Speaker 2: how amazing everything is. The reality is that, as we've
Speaker 2: told you before, austraightas wealth gap is heading towards its
Speaker 2: worst inequality since the nineteen fifties. As you've heard multiple times,
Speaker 2: and we've been talking about it for as long as
Speaker 2: it's been part of the mix. We're in a per
Speaker 2: cap at a recession, meaning that okay, they are able
Speaker 2: to find a way to say that the country is
Speaker 2: ever so slightly growing, but not when it comes to
Speaker 2: you and I, because but simply, the wages of most
Speaker 2: normal people is not matching the cost an increased cost
Speaker 2: of everything. The only exception is often things when it
Speaker 2: comes to the public service, which has exploded under this government.
Speaker 2: More than thirty thousand people have been hired by the
Speaker 2: federal government, and everyone working for the public service, including
Speaker 2: the politicians, have got pay rises.
Speaker 1: In the case of the.
Speaker 2: Politicians, they have got three pay rises since the last election.
Speaker 2: You and I obviously not the same. In fact, as
Speaker 2: the Australian newspaper had on its front page this morning,
Speaker 2: the graph that we may have quickly flashed at you before,
Speaker 2: but I want you to see again, this is the
Speaker 2: overall picture about households. We are going backwards. The costs
Speaker 2: go up, the income goes down, meaning the deficit gets larger.
Speaker 2: The one thing that the Prime Minister and his Treasurer
Speaker 2: have said over and over again that is the proof
Speaker 2: about their incredible economic management, is the document where they
Speaker 2: don't have to actually count everything that they spend. As
Speaker 2: we know there are tens, probably hundreds of billions of
Speaker 2: dollars which are off budget, much of the spending that
Speaker 2: Chris Bowen's been putting in place. And as they're able
Speaker 2: to get a massive increase in iron oil receipts, as
Speaker 2: they're able to count the profits of the Future Fund,
Speaker 2: they've been able to say this for the past couple
Speaker 2: of years.
Speaker 3: The Albanesi Labor government has delivered a second consecutive budget surplus.
Speaker 4: What we've done is produce a budget surplus and followed
Speaker 4: it up with another budget surplus.
Speaker 3: We haven't chosen between cost of living relief or budget surpluses.
Speaker 5: We've been able to do both.
Speaker 4: We have delivered back to back budget sources.
Speaker 2: And for those that are cheering on in the press gallery,
Speaker 2: they think that that is enough. Now, this is a
Speaker 2: little bit like the people who thought that Kamala Harris
Speaker 2: was a chance against Trump because the numbers that were
Speaker 2: coming out of Washington, well, they were getting better by
Speaker 2: the week and.
Speaker 1: By the month.
Speaker 2: The reality, of course, is that while even if inflation, say,
Speaker 2: didn't go up at all in the next quarter, it
Speaker 2: has gone up by a significant amount since this government started.
Speaker 2: Now they're going to say, well, it's started to come down,
Speaker 2: but remember, as we've said before, you add one quarter
Speaker 2: on top of the other quarter, on top of the
Speaker 2: other quarter, on top of the other quarter, and that's
Speaker 2: how you end up with eggs that end up costing
Speaker 2: thirty percent more than before this mob came to power. Well,
Speaker 2: this distraction, this excuse, looks like it too, is about
Speaker 2: to go up in smoke. The reality is that, as
Speaker 2: I have told you on budget nights, during all of
Speaker 2: this government's term, the budget is in what is called
Speaker 2: a structural deficit. That put, simply, they keep adding so
Speaker 2: much spending to the overall commitments of the federal budget
Speaker 2: that you need to keep revenue going up by the
Speaker 2: same amount. But that may well not end up being
Speaker 2: the case. As you've heard a couple of times, I
Speaker 2: want to add a little more to what Peter was
Speaker 2: explaining to you a bit earlier this evening about access economics. Now,
Speaker 2: generally speaking, give will take a few billion here or there.
Speaker 2: They're generally in the same spot as the government, or
Speaker 2: certainly they're in the right spot.
Speaker 1: More often than not.
Speaker 2: They say over the next few years that there's a
Speaker 2: twenty seven b four billion dollar difference between the budget
Speaker 2: where it sits and the budget about where it's going
Speaker 2: to go. And that's not extra revenue. In fact, it
Speaker 2: is extra spending. And this, by the way, is what
Speaker 2: we should be talking about, not over the next five
Speaker 2: to ten years, but over the next twelve months. The
Speaker 2: estimates for this year's budget deficit, which Chalmers said in May,
Speaker 2: would be twenty eight point three billion is more likely
Speaker 2: to be thirty three point five billion. Why commodity prices
Speaker 2: are falling company tax collections as well as inflation is
Speaker 2: pushing up the overall cost of government services, meaning the
Speaker 2: revenue is starting to fall but the expenses are not.
Speaker 2: And thankfully the Financial Review made this even simpler for
Speaker 2: everyone to get our head around now, as you can
Speaker 2: see the difference between the blue line, which is where
Speaker 2: the access economics people are modeling things, versus the red
Speaker 2: of the Treasury. Now they say here that while we
Speaker 2: will be headed towards a budget deficit, Deloitte says it's
Speaker 2: going to be deeper than.
Speaker 1: What the Treasury says.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 2: Remember, Treasury often gets it wrong. In fairness, they often undercount.
Speaker 2: But the suggestion here by Deloitte is that rather than
Speaker 2: undercounting in some ways, they are overcounting. The rosier picture
Speaker 2: that the government is trying to pick about its own
Speaker 2: financial circumstances and after the next election things get particularly bad.
Speaker 2: This is not because the amount of money coming into
Speaker 2: the government is not at record levels. In fact, if
Speaker 2: you have a look at the expectations for twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: twenty six, twenty seven and twenty eight.
Speaker 1: We hit record levels. Now.
Speaker 2: By the way, just have a look at Australia. Are
Speaker 2: what two thousand and twenty two, at the change of government,
Speaker 2: the total government revenue was about two hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: billion dollars. They're now at four hundred billion dollars in
Speaker 2: the space of just a couple of years.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Our population has not exploded despite the best effort of
Speaker 2: this government. However, fiddles and changes to the tax system
Speaker 2: mean that taxation revenue has increased. But look what has
Speaker 2: also increased. Back in twenty twenty two, six hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty b four billion dollars was how much the federal
Speaker 2: government was spending. The expectation here is that by twenty
Speaker 2: twenty eight it'll be eight hundred and fifty billion dollars.
Speaker 2: That's what I refer to as the structural deficit. The
Speaker 2: spending is exponential in its growth. The revenue, while still
Speaker 2: heading up very quickly, is not matching the same rocket ship.
Speaker 2: Which is why we get to the Intergenerational Report, which
Speaker 2: was released though I think about a year ago, and
Speaker 2: this was the insight into Australia's true economic future, and
Speaker 2: it showed budget deficits every single year all the way
Speaker 2: through the twenty thirties, the twenty forties, the twenty fifties,
Speaker 2: and the worst budget deficits into our future are in
Speaker 2: the two thousand and sixties. The Australian population by two
Speaker 2: thousand and sixty is expected to be the best part
Speaker 2: of forty four zero million people, so the government will
Speaker 2: be doing a good job of trying to get more
Speaker 2: revenue because more people equals more taxes, despite the fact
Speaker 2: that more people equals more pressure on government services, and
Speaker 2: then you need even more people than that to pay
Speaker 2: for those government services when the people who are paying
Speaker 2: tax in twenty and sixty start to retire. It's why
Speaker 2: Dick Smith refers to it as a Ponzi scheme. So
Speaker 2: while the Prime Minister has been able to say that
Speaker 2: because they have been kissed by lightning for a couple
Speaker 2: of years in row Odd's excellent economic management. But unless
Speaker 2: you are willing to retool the fundamental ingredients in the budget,
Speaker 2: that unless you keep having these lucky spikes of income,
Speaker 2: then the baked in spending overtakes it and you go
Speaker 2: to a deficit sooner rather than later. It means that
Speaker 2: while they stand up today and say haven't we been amazing.
Speaker 2: We've either saved or paid off one hundred billion dollars
Speaker 2: worth of debt that all of that automatically gets thrown
Speaker 2: away because just like inflation, is a price increase on
Speaker 2: top of a price increase in top of a price increase.
Speaker 2: And some of them may have been this big on
Speaker 2: top of some of them that may be this big
Speaker 2: on top of some of them that might be this big, it's.
Speaker 1: Still a price increase.
Speaker 2: A budget deficit on top of a budget deficit on
Speaker 2: top of a budget deficit on top of a budget
Speaker 2: deficit adds to debt. Come we have a look at
Speaker 2: those numbers again. The expectations about the twenty twenties, the
Speaker 2: twenty thirties, the twenty forties, the twenty fifties, and the
Speaker 2: twenty sixties is that the joint keeps going into debt.
Speaker 2: Every one of those little graphs are not side by side,
Speaker 2: but instead are on top of each other. So this
Speaker 2: government may well be running out of excuses, which is
Speaker 2: why in part they are trying to get to an
Speaker 2: election sooner rather than later, and it's why they will
Speaker 2: not be delivering a federal budget because the most likely
Speaker 2: outcome of a next federal budget to be delivered in
Speaker 2: May as expected March as maybe is that we would
Speaker 2: be in deficit, and according to Deloitte, those deficits are
Speaker 2: deeper and longer than Grimjim is letting on as for
Speaker 2: your circumstances, which have not changed for the past three
Speaker 2: years and certainly not in the past couple and a
Speaker 2: bit years almost three years of this government. Is the
Speaker 2: problems when it comes to cost of living.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 2: I know for some people boring to keep talking about it,
Speaker 2: but it is the fundamental vein that is running through
Speaker 2: any and every problem that exists for many and most Australians.
Speaker 2: And the Prime Minister, just like about budget surpluses, can
Speaker 2: pretend that two budget surpluses versus forty years of budget
Speaker 2: deficits is a reason to trust him. He can say
Speaker 2: cost are living as many times as he wants. This
Speaker 2: is how many times in question time alone, Labor tried
Speaker 2: to say it over and over again.
Speaker 3: Now, if those opposite really cared about housing and cost
Speaker 3: of living, they'd support this investment.
Speaker 4: In terms of the question that was asked as well
Speaker 4: about costs and cost of living.
Speaker 6: I attack or a bit of help that we're giving
Speaker 6: Australians with the cost of living.
Speaker 2: This government promised that things would be better today than
Speaker 2: when they took office. I'll show this to you every
Speaker 2: night because I want this image to be burnt, not
Speaker 2: just into your retina, I want you to go and
Speaker 2: find it and show it to the friends who would
Speaker 2: even think about rehiring the people who promised that cost
Speaker 2: of living would be lower under a labor government.
Speaker 1: Yet how many indicies.
Speaker 2: It is terrible those trying to pay off a house
Speaker 2: twelve interest rate rises.
Speaker 1: Oh but if it goes.
Speaker 2: Back to eleven, then somehow, magically, everyone's going to think
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister is great at managing the economy if
Speaker 2: somehow they can flum yet another budget surplus, somehow will
Speaker 2: ignore the settings that mean we are in for budget
Speaker 2: deficits for the next forty years. It was a company,
Speaker 2: and thankfully your country is not a company. We all
Speaker 2: know what the future of that company would be. Let
Speaker 2: alone its board of directors, let alone it's CEO.
Speaker 1: Last night on Q and A.
Speaker 2: Every now and then their bubble gets pierced with somebody
Speaker 2: talking about the reality.
Speaker 1: Of this issue.
Speaker 2: And if there is a shock result at the next
Speaker 2: federal election, there are no breadcrumbs that need to be learnt.
Speaker 2: There is a bakery sitting in the middle of the road.
Speaker 7: My husband and I we're grocery shop. I mean, the
Speaker 7: grocery shop is just staggering. And I don't know personally
Speaker 7: knowing a number of people who don't have a house,
Speaker 7: they're paying rent every week, and if they've got a
Speaker 7: couple of children, how do they pay rent? Pay all
Speaker 7: these heavy tolls, huge grocery bills, education, I mean medical
Speaker 7: that the list just goes on, and I think people
Speaker 7: are get to the point where they've lost all hope
Speaker 7: in there being a better way of life than what
Speaker 7: they're experiencing now.
Speaker 2: And I know this message is relentless. It's because the
Speaker 2: issue is this Christmas is going to see again people
Speaker 2: having to make choices about what they spend money on
Speaker 2: because they don't have the disposable income, because they are
Speaker 2: in the household recession that has now gone on for
Speaker 2: the best part of the entirety of the time that
Speaker 2: this mob have been in power. There is just very
Speaker 2: little money that is left. Channel nine did a survey
Speaker 2: of the people on its website and it says no presence,
Speaker 2: just cards. How Ousie's embracing for cost of living Christmas.
Speaker 2: The survey of their people on their website, so again
Speaker 2: not scientific but indicative, showed forty nine percent of readers
Speaker 2: are going to be cutting back on gifts, food and
Speaker 2: drinks due to cost of living. One reader said, the
Speaker 2: rise in costs of groceries and general living has put
Speaker 2: a damn on Christmas. Sadly, the exchange of gifts this
Speaker 2: year will be at an all time low.
Speaker 1: It is so disappointing.
Speaker 2: In graph form you can see that forty nine percent
Speaker 2: of people say and agree with the sentiment that living
Speaker 2: costs are forcing you to host a budget Christmas this year.
Speaker 2: For thirty six they're okay, and for a significant number
Speaker 2: of people they just don't know. Yet Again, inside the article,
Speaker 2: some survey of respondents noted that they can barely afford
Speaker 2: every day expenses, low bills and groceries, and paying for
Speaker 2: Christmas feels like an impossibility. But guess what the reason
Speaker 2: this becomes a political problem for the Prime Minister is.
Speaker 2: The cost of living Christmas of twenty twenty four is
Speaker 2: on top of the one from last year. The stories
Speaker 2: from last Christmas where yes, Christmas will be more expensive
Speaker 2: this year. The National Australian Bank, more Australians planning for
Speaker 2: a low cost Christmas, and on top of the twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four in the twenty twenty three what about the
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two Christmas? How much more Christmas dinner will
Speaker 2: cost in twenty twenty two and the ABC cost of
Speaker 2: living pressures mean Australians are having a fruit Christmas this year.
Speaker 1: That's why it doesn't.
Speaker 2: Matter what they say in question Time, when will this
Speaker 2: get through to the full time political protecteds protectors of
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister in the media that as much as
Speaker 2: he'd liked to turn around and say, oh, we've got
Speaker 2: all these incredible cost of living achievements, including two little
Speaker 2: two tax cuts that remember for the people who truly
Speaker 2: need them. The most people in and around forty thousand
Speaker 2: dollars were fourteen dollars a week. They turn around and say, well,
Speaker 2: that are there's in free take places. Great, I don't
Speaker 2: have a problem with that, But that's not millions of
Speaker 2: people that get access to that, oh cheaper childcare. Again,
Speaker 2: the extreme majority of people don't access that, oh a
Speaker 2: cheaper medicines. Again, the extreme majority of people don't involve
Speaker 2: themselves in that system. And it does mean that, yes,
Speaker 2: for some on the margins, they have a policy to
Speaker 2: be able to turn around and say, look, how we helped.
Speaker 2: But one thing that has been relentless over the past
Speaker 2: couple of years, of course, is the cost of electricity.
Speaker 2: And we get to that in a moment or two's time.
Speaker 2: Regardless of whether you are a pensioner, a young single person,
Speaker 2: a student living in a sharehouse, or your classic you know,
Speaker 2: two point four kids and a dog and a white
Speaker 2: picket fence, the cost of everything from petroling your car
Speaker 2: to ensuring the car, to paying off the house or
Speaker 2: paying the rent way higher than anything this government has
Speaker 2: done to try to square the ledger. And then there's
Speaker 2: that number that just won't go away, the one that's
Speaker 2: been stuck in my head and will be every day
Speaker 2: between now and the next federal election, that the kid
Speaker 2: from Housing Commission has observed and ran an Australian economy
Speaker 2: that has produced three million people who are this close
Speaker 2: to homelessness. A bloke who has the arrogance to turn
Speaker 2: around and say, because it's to his political benefit, not
Speaker 2: to the reality of the time, that the worst is
Speaker 2: behind us. It's like a doctor walking in and saying, oh,
Speaker 2: I guess what you can to free because I'm two
Speaker 2: days away from going on vacation, where the reality is
Speaker 2: you're just as sick as you ever were. The Prime
Speaker 2: Minister even had the stones to say this in question
Speaker 2: time today.
Speaker 8: People would have been in a much more difficult position
Speaker 8: if they didn't have their wages going up, their costs
Speaker 8: going down, and in placing coming back to where it
Speaker 8: should be.
Speaker 2: Again, this Canberra centric idea that the headline figure is
Speaker 2: all that matters, when the reality is that the headline
Speaker 2: figure turns around and says that our economy is growing
Speaker 2: by zero point one percent, and then you actually dig
Speaker 2: inside and largely it's government spending, including the hiring of
Speaker 2: tens of thousands of more public servants or pay rises
Speaker 2: for public servants that mean the Prime Minister can turn
Speaker 2: around and say, overall there's been some significant wage rises.
Speaker 2: Have you got one, as the family member who you
Speaker 2: know is struggling, got one? Of course, not I old
Speaker 2: inflations back to where it should be, because again for
Speaker 2: them it's just a giant arc, but for you, it's
Speaker 2: one month on top of one month on top of
Speaker 2: one month, which is why people complain like they do.
Speaker 2: It's why they can't be spun. It's why this is
Speaker 2: the determinant issue at the next federal election. We'll see
Speaker 2: whether the Liberal Party can be trusted to have an
Speaker 2: alternative vision. They need to have one, otherwise just pointing
Speaker 2: at the problem is not going to help. Again, if
Speaker 2: you want to look to the American election for some
Speaker 2: sort of answers here, and I'm not saying everyone's.
Speaker 1: Going to pull a Trump.
Speaker 2: Remember what his position was, No tax on tips, I'm
Speaker 2: going to harve your electricity bills because we're going to
Speaker 2: go back to the fossil fuels which push down the prices.
Speaker 2: No tax on social suit. There was an alternative financial
Speaker 2: offering that was on the table. It'd be nice to
Speaker 2: see the alternative government start to put that vision in place,
Speaker 2: because when they they do, then the election outcome, in
Speaker 2: my view, is not going to be a big question anymore.
Speaker 2: People are ready to break up with the prime minister
Speaker 2: who was bs than and had the wrong priorities for
Speaker 2: too long, and it doesn't matter whether he's been there
Speaker 2: for one term or sixteen terms. When they turn on you,
Speaker 2: they turn on you. When they stop listening to you,
Speaker 2: They stop listening to you, and it doesn't matter how
Speaker 2: great your scare campaign is or how many people write
Speaker 2: the opinion pieces in favor of you, because look what
Speaker 2: happened with Kamala, Look what happened with Stephen Males, Look
Speaker 2: what happened with Dominic Perrete. When the tide is out,
Speaker 2: the tide is out, and no amount of teals or
Speaker 2: Greens are most likely going to save your backside. When
Speaker 2: again from page of The Australian Today, I don't normally
Speaker 2: talk about yesterday's news or this morning's news tonight. I'm
Speaker 2: always focused on tonight and looking forward rather than back.
Speaker 1: But this was important. Inflation pain is.
Speaker 2: Going to go all this year, all next year and
Speaker 2: into twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1: So good luck at an election.
Speaker 5: Prime Minister.
Speaker 1: To Energy.
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, it was a hot day in Sydney
Speaker 2: and big parts of New South Wales Queensland.
Speaker 1: It's on the way for you in the next couple
Speaker 1: of days.
Speaker 2: And just like the previous government, the current government, the
Speaker 2: Labor government in New South Wales has had to say,
Speaker 2: despite the fact we're a quarter of the way into
Speaker 2: the twenty first century, you cannot be trusted to use
Speaker 2: anything in your house that will make you cooler, because
Speaker 2: the entire system might fall over.
Speaker 6: The advice is always the same on really hot days,
Speaker 6: do you really need to have every single light on
Speaker 6: in the house? Do you need to have your air conditioning?
Speaker 6: Doubt at nineteen degrees you don't.
Speaker 1: I'll give you the tip. Your light globe use is
Speaker 1: not going to be the difference.
Speaker 2: What they will try to do is turn around and
Speaker 2: tell people that heavy manufacturing is not allowed to happen
Speaker 2: on certain hot days. That they will try to literally
Speaker 2: turn off computers in and around parts of the public sector.
Speaker 1: That's how fragile the grid is.
Speaker 2: And I went into great detail in that last night,
Speaker 2: and a huge reaction to that conversation last night, and
Speaker 2: I appreciate all the people who sent me an email. Well,
Speaker 2: guess what ended up happening. There were black ats once
Speaker 2: happened inside central Sydney where a big chunk of the
Speaker 2: CBD was affected by blackouts today, of course, nothing to
Speaker 2: do with the weather. Just to complete an absolute coincidence
Speaker 2: that on the day they said it might happen, buildings
Speaker 2: that use an awful lot of power didn't have a
Speaker 2: power network that worked for them. Okay, meantime, I've got
Speaker 2: to say someone who needs to sharpen the pencil a
Speaker 2: little bit with some of the question time tactics. Not
Speaker 2: a question about this today in federal Parliament. Now, I
Speaker 2: know it's only something that's happening in one city, one state,
Speaker 2: but it is something that is emblematic of what has
Speaker 2: been said in Melbourne and in Adelaide and in Brisbane. Again,
Speaker 2: my apologies to good people of Western Australia. This doesn't
Speaker 2: affect you. Why because you got your own electricity grid.
Speaker 2: And remember despite the fact that the thing has become
Speaker 2: more unreliable because a more people are using it. But
Speaker 2: you can't say that about immigration. The system has gone
Speaker 2: from a reliable one to a speculative one because the
Speaker 2: people who run our country need to feel better when
Speaker 2: they go off to international conferences. Despite the fact that
Speaker 2: we are one percent of the world's problem, where China
Speaker 2: is more than thirty something percent of the world's problem.
Speaker 2: Once you throw in India the rest of the developing world,
Speaker 2: more than half of the world's climate issues come from
Speaker 2: those places. I don't know, but it's Australia where you
Speaker 2: have to turn your lights off again. People understand climate change,
Speaker 2: they understand a need for action, but they also understand
Speaker 2: how ridiculous it is that power bills have never been higher,
Speaker 2: despite the fact that apparently there's more cheap energy than
Speaker 2: ever before. Because of course, as we remember from last
Speaker 2: week in Chris Hulman's excellent documentary up now at skynews
Speaker 2: dot com dot are you get it, share, get the
Speaker 2: word out, there are people who are being absolutely wiped
Speaker 2: out by power bills. These are the people who are
Speaker 2: being told by their governments to turn off the light
Speaker 2: on a hot day. These people have already been doing that,
Speaker 2: but the bills to just access the grid leaves them
Speaker 2: four fifths of bugger all once the bill comes in.
Speaker 9: This is what I call a payday killer. It's come
Speaker 9: in at one thousand and seventy three dollars and thirty
Speaker 9: one cents. My pay, which is the pay of most
Speaker 9: age pensioners, is around one thousand, one hundred and forty
Speaker 9: four dollars. This leaves me after I pay this bill
Speaker 9: seventy one dollars and nine cents.
Speaker 2: Absolutely extraordinary. That's the reality, and that is what is
Speaker 2: wearing away at people, and that is why everything is awesome,
Speaker 2: everything's okay. It ain't my fault. I'll do the songs tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Then people don't buy it. I know you're awake to it.
Speaker 2: We're awake to it. We have been since day one.
Speaker 2: We saw this train coming when they were the opposition.
Speaker 2: We copped it when we called it out from day one.
Speaker 2: But guess what now seems to be the reality of
Speaker 2: what it feels like the majority of Australians feel right now,
Speaker 2: enough with the gas lighting, enough of the bsing, enough
Speaker 2: of being told that up is down and down is up,
Speaker 2: and left is right and right is wrong.
Speaker 1: We have a system that used to work.
Speaker 2: Okay, they sold it off or they ran it into
Speaker 2: the ground, but instead let's just move to this completely
Speaker 2: new one where the technology may only last for twenty
Speaker 2: years and then you just bury it in the ground,
Speaker 2: or it's made by slave labor in China.
Speaker 1: But nothing to see here.
Speaker 2: But don't worry. The better politicians than any that have
Speaker 2: come before. They are right on the big issues. Here
Speaker 2: was what one of the tills, the teal who said
Speaker 2: she would like to be prime minister one day. Remember
Speaker 2: remember that fantasy. This is the question that she asks
Speaker 2: on the behalf of her local election. GEESEZ she feels
Speaker 2: our pain, doesn't she?
Speaker 10: My question is for the Minister for Environment and Water Minister.
Speaker 10: A recent review found that major supermarkets are in some
Speaker 10: cases charging more for unpackaged fruit and vegetables than they
Speaker 10: are for plastic rapped produce. One example was loose potatoes,
Speaker 10: which cost fifty three percent more than bagged ones. But
Speaker 10: the strands are already struggling with the cost of living
Speaker 10: crisis and some really trying to do the right thing
Speaker 10: by reducing their plastic waste. How's the government's going to
Speaker 10: hold supermarket chains accountable for fuelling Australia's plastic pollution.
Speaker 1: So what's the story about?
Speaker 2: Is the story about the plastic pollution or the cost
Speaker 2: of the bag versus unbagged potatoes. As for other people
Speaker 2: who are part of the doomstay cult when it comes
Speaker 2: to climate unless Australia does everything despite the fact that
Speaker 2: China does forfeits of buggerule, then.
Speaker 1: We're all doomed.
Speaker 2: There was a whole thing that I kind of would
Speaker 2: last week because I knew where it would end, which
Speaker 2: would be that a bunch of protesters who believe that
Speaker 2: the sea is going to rise to a certain point
Speaker 2: where life will no longer be worth living, and they
Speaker 2: decided to jump into their kayaks made of fiberglass. But okay,
Speaker 2: to make that point that coal was terrible. So they
Speaker 2: decided to block the port of Newcastle. Many were arrested
Speaker 2: because this was considered illegal. Supreme Court said you can
Speaker 2: have a protest, but you can't get in the way
Speaker 2: of ships in the middle of a very significant shipping lane.
Speaker 11: As a result of some of those protest activities, arrested
Speaker 11: one hundred and seventy people. One hundred and fifty six
Speaker 11: of those were adults and fourteen were juveniles. Those charges
Speaker 11: relate to charges under the Crimes Act and also charges
Speaker 11: under the Marine Safety Act. I suppose particularly of concern
Speaker 11: to ask, is some of the safety risks that occurred.
Speaker 11: We had thirty four people that were required to be
Speaker 11: pulled out of the water during arrest.
Speaker 2: Well, how about this in the same way that the
Speaker 2: people who in the past have glued their hands to
Speaker 2: the streets of Brisbane, and some of the magistrates who
Speaker 2: end up seeing these people say, look, it's for a
Speaker 2: good cause. Or the person who comes out of jail
Speaker 2: early because of the trauma that they experienced when it
Speaker 2: came to floods in the past, which was an excuse
Speaker 2: to shut down major roadways. Many of the people that
Speaker 2: are going to face legal action claim they have no
Speaker 2: money to be able to defend themselves, but they had
Speaker 2: to do it anyway, so they've set up, among other things,
Speaker 2: the whole collection of gofundmes where people are donating out
Speaker 2: of their pocket to help pay for their legal funds. Okay,
Speaker 2: that's your right as a citizen, but would you accept
Speaker 2: it if your local council was using ratepayers money to
Speaker 2: help bail out people who were protesting in a completely
Speaker 2: different part of the state. Well, that's exactly what people
Speaker 2: in the heart of Sydney are doing, because last night
Speaker 2: the City of Sydney decided to vote to send twenty
Speaker 2: two thousand dollars of rate payers money to help pay
Speaker 2: for the legal costs of the people who were protesting
Speaker 2: but were told they couldn't protest in the water, but
Speaker 2: chose to do so anyway, knowingly breaking the law. The
Speaker 2: one person who voted against it spoke to Chris o'keefon
Speaker 2: Tijubi this afternoon.
Speaker 12: I just can't understand how the city of city councils
Speaker 12: giving funds to Rising Tired, an organization based out of
Speaker 12: Newcastle that deliberately flouts the Lord, that deliberately flouts the
Speaker 12: Supreme Court ruling to make this protest happen. It's absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Hey, what did Clive More say when the motion was presented?
Speaker 12: She said, essentially they were in a climate emergency and
Speaker 12: the people are really upset about that.
Speaker 2: So the next time you are told to pay your
Speaker 2: rates from the City of Sydney, presumably to fix the potholes,
Speaker 2: of which there are plenty, to pick up the garbage
Speaker 2: of which it may or may not happen to pick
Speaker 2: up the recycling which apparently, according to that counselor, is
Speaker 2: ending up in general landfill, twenty two thousand dollars of it.
Speaker 1: Isn't going to any of those things.
Speaker 2: Oh and the next time you happen to be visiting
Speaker 2: the City of Sydney and you get a parking fine,
Speaker 2: that money will not be going to washing the streets
Speaker 2: down from that wonderful odor of certain liquids that are
Speaker 2: expunged on the streets late at night. Instead, it in
Speaker 2: part is going to pay for people who knew what
Speaker 2: they were doing is wrong, yet they did it anyway
Speaker 2: and now are being in.
Speaker 1: Part bailed out. Welcome to the world of.
Speaker 2: Other people's money, crazy stuff. James Morrow, Joe Hildebrand, they
Speaker 2: agree on everything. Oh that's right, they don't. That's why
Speaker 2: they're here tonight for a big debate. And then Nigel
Speaker 2: Farage before we're done, just getting started. Thanks for watching
Speaker 2: us this Tuesday night on Paul Murray Line. Thank you
Speaker 2: very much. They're in the man cave, they're ready to go.
Speaker 2: Let's get into it. James Morrow is here with a
Speaker 2: wonderful Joe hilda Brand. The last time I saw James,
Speaker 2: we're wearing a cigar bar in Washington.
Speaker 13: We certainly were, and the buzz is still the same day.
Speaker 1: Smoking here.
Speaker 13: Imagine.
Speaker 1: Don't worry, boss, we won't.
Speaker 3: I love the American solution to banning smoking in bars.
Speaker 3: They said, Okay, no worries at all. We're just going
Speaker 3: to have smoking bars where you can drink. Correct, It's
Speaker 3: like everybody's happy now, correct, all right, but of course
Speaker 3: don't do it. Terrible as the beginning at the again
Speaker 3: of your life. Now, social media ban. We know this
Speaker 3: thing's going to most likely be passed into the week.
Speaker 3: Why because Parliament ain't coming back in the Prime Minister
Speaker 3: wants a win.
Speaker 1: But we are seeing some whopple.
Speaker 2: We've seen Alexantik Matt Canavan both coming out and saying no,
Speaker 2: we're not going to do this. Can I just suggest
Speaker 2: when we are doing things as consequential as this that
Speaker 2: every now and then, and I have if anyone who
Speaker 2: has followed me along the journey, I remember saying this
Speaker 2: when I was doing like late night Sunday Night on nov.
Speaker 1: Twenty something years ago.
Speaker 2: Right, I look exactly the same that when you make
Speaker 2: big decisions about say national security legislation that's about surveillance
Speaker 2: of the public, or why not have a trial period
Speaker 2: and a sunset clause where you turn around. You do
Speaker 2: this for a couple of years, and then the system
Speaker 2: has to prove that it works in order to keep it,
Speaker 2: to turn the idea into something permanent.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: Yet there's sort of the all or nothing approach generally speaking, Right,
Speaker 2: because I understand why this is necessary. I've read every
Speaker 2: single story and the particularly you know, the horrific stuff
Speaker 2: that's been around there with kids, So I'm all in.
Speaker 2: I hate social media. I think it is literally I
Speaker 2: said before it's like a casino, right, Like it's all
Speaker 2: about endorphins and no natural light and all the rest
Speaker 2: of it, and it's really bad for kids.
Speaker 14: But we don't how much heat Sinners called correct.
Speaker 5: But it also has some terrible qualities.
Speaker 13: Sam you for making an excellent point, which means that
Speaker 13: metaphor is done.
Speaker 2: But my point is is that isn't there a softly
Speaker 2: softly rather than a one day inquiry and a law
Speaker 2: that's in in four days.
Speaker 3: That's the world's Because pragmatist I would normally say yes,
Speaker 3: But I think Anthie Abinezi is coming to the point
Speaker 3: where he has to show that he stands for something,
Speaker 3: to show that he is a strong leader. It's only
Speaker 3: a few months out before the next election, if that's
Speaker 3: if it goes not even maybe not even so, and
Speaker 3: so he's got to say, no, this is what I
Speaker 3: stand for.
Speaker 5: He's done it with the housing package.
Speaker 3: He stared down the Greens and he kicked those humorous
Speaker 3: little socialists in the.
Speaker 5: Nuts and that was wonderful. But again that's beside the point.
Speaker 3: The point is he's got to show what he stands
Speaker 3: for and what labor stands for. And look, with all
Speaker 3: the privacy concerns or the you know, I don't want
Speaker 3: social media companies, you know, having my details and everything.
Speaker 5: I was doing my Christmas shopping this week.
Speaker 3: There are that many websites that have all your data,
Speaker 3: all your credit card details, all your information and you
Speaker 3: can't even remember them.
Speaker 5: You can't even remember the passwords for them.
Speaker 3: And these websites that have a vested interest in mining
Speaker 3: absolutely everything there is to know about you so they
Speaker 3: can target you with ads, so they can tell you stuff.
Speaker 3: And look, I don't like, you know, in a perfect world,
Speaker 3: we'd all be going to the market every day and
Speaker 3: buying you know, mangoes, buy the box. But this is
Speaker 3: the world that we live in now, and I don't
Speaker 3: think having to sign up and say right this is
Speaker 3: who I am is such a bad thing. And it
Speaker 3: wasn't that long ago when I was doing a campaign
Speaker 3: for the Daily Telegraph called Stop the Trials, where we
Speaker 3: actually say say whatever you want on Twitter, have free speech,
Speaker 3: but be accountable for it.
Speaker 2: So it's this thing, James, where again we understand what
Speaker 2: the purpose of it is. And I just hope that
Speaker 2: after it becomes law, that the that there is the
Speaker 2: Chicks and Balances just to double check that if there's
Speaker 2: a need for a tweak year or a need to
Speaker 2: add something there, that that can be done.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 14: I mean, like for me, I think that the big
Speaker 14: issue around social media is really more around the sort
Speaker 14: of the rewiring of the brands, the intention span the
Speaker 14: stuff that child hate has done. You know, I think
Speaker 14: that that's, you know, the fundamentally the bigger civil ground.
Speaker 14: In the same way you say, well, we don't let
Speaker 14: people drink before they're eighteen and that sort of thing.
Speaker 14: But you know that said, if you're going to go
Speaker 14: this sort of route here, I did think that there
Speaker 14: were some real problems exposed in the bill by people
Speaker 14: like Matt Canavan when they said, well, you know you
Speaker 14: can't go on, but what about porn And they're like, oh,
Speaker 14: well that's not really And you know, frankly, I think
Speaker 14: that you know, pornography in terms of, like, you know,
Speaker 14: if we're in this sort of situation where where you know,
Speaker 14: we're saying kids need to talking about consent, respect, relationship, spsogyny,
Speaker 14: all this sort of stuff, having this free sewer of
Speaker 14: pornography which you could geo block very easily, having that
Speaker 14: pumped into the system of everybody and kids kids can
Speaker 14: find this stuff easily, you.
Speaker 2: Know, and see, yeah, it's like it's it's that that,
Speaker 2: you know, Like, surely you'd want to do something about
Speaker 2: that too.
Speaker 3: Well, I've be tried the last time they were in
Speaker 3: government and the exact same arguments were used against it.
Speaker 3: Steven Conroy's Communications has tried to censor the Internet, this
Speaker 3: is what it was called, and was like, no, you
Speaker 3: can't do that, because first they'll come for hard corporate orgraphy,
Speaker 3: then they'll come for this. So again, inevitably if there has.
Speaker 5: To be a test of reasonableness.
Speaker 3: And again with the social media stuff, it is not
Speaker 3: that the algorithm and the screen time that is a problem,
Speaker 3: but that is not the primary problem. The primary problem
Speaker 3: is the interactivity which allows kids to be bullied in silence,
Speaker 3: in darkness.
Speaker 2: Correct, and which in part is why my suggestion is
Speaker 2: that one thing, apart from laws and all the rest
Speaker 2: of it, which is if you are at that moment
Speaker 2: in time where you're going to buy, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to buy, for goodness sake, the dumb phone first, and
Speaker 2: all the parents in the year to agree, and then
Speaker 2: as the year's roll on, things will change. Now Donald
Speaker 2: Trump has announced there's going to be tariff's on Mexico
Speaker 2: and on Canada. Why because that's where an awful lot
Speaker 2: of people enter the country illegally, but also a very
Speaker 2: significant amount of drugs have come fentanyl, the synthetic drug
Speaker 2: which has made its way from China, which is why
Speaker 2: in part they're going to end up with a tariff.
Speaker 2: But I want to come at this from a different way, James.
Speaker 2: I've already noticed that in some the polite papers today
Speaker 2: that we're talking about the economic uncertainty of trump tariff's
Speaker 2: coming ahead. Do you think that we are going to get,
Speaker 2: as it was about the Ukraine War, We are going
Speaker 2: to get from charmers and others that the excuse for
Speaker 2: why things are the way they are is Donald Trump's tariffs,
Speaker 2: despite the fact that he ain't the president until the
Speaker 2: twentieth of January.
Speaker 14: Yeah.
Speaker 13: No, Look, I mean I.
Speaker 14: Think I think absolutely any sort of excuse in the
Speaker 14: book here that they can get, you know, But I
Speaker 14: mean again it also you know, this also shows the
Speaker 14: other issue with that sort of social media thing is
Speaker 14: it's again taking the eye off the costly ball, and
Speaker 14: that's a big thing. You know, they're going to go
Speaker 14: into an election saying, hey, we give you a social
Speaker 14: media ban for the kids. Great by give them Dealtry
Speaker 14: Bill is still a fortunate and you know, we do
Speaker 14: know now, we do know now that basically, you know,
Speaker 14: had they not been pumping so many people into government
Speaker 14: jobs and pumping so many migrants into the economy, we
Speaker 14: would be looking at a rate cut by now. And
Speaker 14: this government is our officially inflating the economy. That's why
Speaker 14: we have high interest rates. That's why things cost too much.
Speaker 14: That's why I can't find a house. This is what
Speaker 14: they're doing. And you know, they will absolutely look to
Speaker 14: blame Donald Trump, because Donald Trump the big range man bad.
Speaker 14: You know, they're gonna use him for everything. Now. The
Speaker 14: interesting thing about this is that there's you know, some
Speaker 14: indications that Mexico is already coming to the party. They
Speaker 14: already called Trump said hey, look just about this, hold on,
Speaker 14: We're gonna make this all okay here. And because these
Speaker 14: countries do have the power if they want to to
Speaker 14: do this. So you know, I was down at the
Speaker 14: border the other week. You know, they have the power
Speaker 14: to do something about this if they want to. They're
Speaker 14: a transit point for all these people and they say, yeah,
Speaker 14: come on through. But you know what they should be
Speaker 14: doing is what we do in Australia. You put people
Speaker 14: in detention until you claim his process. And suddenly a
Speaker 14: lot of people are trying it on. Stop trying it on.
Speaker 1: I'm done forget.
Speaker 2: In America, their deficity is thirty something treming dollar, right,
Speaker 2: which is why in part the the president says, rather
Speaker 2: than taxing the people, will tax these foreign countries.
Speaker 1: And that's how they'll be able to deal with it.
Speaker 3: If this is the same trick Trump pulls every single time.
Speaker 3: The guy's an absolute master at it. And all these
Speaker 3: you know, just like you, that's right, all these you know,
Speaker 3: ultra sophisticated.
Speaker 5: Degrees, and she is a doctor. You know, they fall
Speaker 5: for it every single time. Every single time. He's doing
Speaker 5: exactly what he did with.
Speaker 3: Bat Gates and say, hey, look over here, here's this
Speaker 3: big sort of sacrificial land that I'm going to set
Speaker 3: on fire for you.
Speaker 5: And while you're all looking over there, I'm just going
Speaker 5: to make RFK health secretary. And he's doing the same thing.
Speaker 3: You say, Oh, I'm going to put tariffs on Mexico
Speaker 3: and Canada unless you secure your borders and stop the
Speaker 3: fentinel coming over and I'm going to make trying to
Speaker 3: clean up its tact and start executing drug smugglers again,
Speaker 3: and those countries will come to the party and then
Speaker 3: he won't have to put on the taff and then
Speaker 3: find But we'll just say in defense of the government.
Speaker 5: It is Jim.
Speaker 3: It is Jim Charmers as treasurer, who came out straight
Speaker 3: after all the Trump assarian said no, calm down, it's
Speaker 3: going to be okay. It's nothing that we can't deal with.
Speaker 3: You know, a lot of it's just bluster. Just everybody
Speaker 3: chill out. Where we are the global instability. The funny
Speaker 3: thing will be when you have all the crazy hard
Speaker 3: lefties who were suddenly.
Speaker 5: Anti tariff.
Speaker 3: Only, well, free trade for all, How could you possibly
Speaker 3: stop global capitalism.
Speaker 2: There was a headline in the Turmbulel Times today which
Speaker 2: said the silent majority of Australian farmers support the transition
Speaker 2: to renewable energy. What a surprise they were. This is
Speaker 2: also the same mob that turned around and said that
Speaker 2: you know, farmers love solar panels because.
Speaker 1: The sheep can graze underneath them.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's actually read some detail though, kids. The survey
Speaker 2: conducted by the lobby group Farmers for Climate Action.
Speaker 13: Can you pronounce the Yeah, that's very good.
Speaker 1: It says it's seventy three percent of people connected to farming.
Speaker 2: They love the idea of renewable enjin. Now, look, by beware,
Speaker 2: in the lead up to the next federal election, when
Speaker 2: you're going to hear a new pole says this about
Speaker 2: a teal seat or a potential teal seat, or a
Speaker 2: claim like that's made in the same way that you
Speaker 2: would say the tobacco industry, the oil, any anything, right,
Speaker 2: you would dismiss this out of hand. Instead, for them,
Speaker 2: it wasn't just a story but the headline, I repeat,
Speaker 2: show it again, the silent majority, according to Farmers for Climate.
Speaker 5: Action, they're the shy farmer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that adds the calls to other poles are the ones,
Speaker 2: that's right.
Speaker 3: They pretend they don't want to wind farms, but secretly
Speaker 3: they do.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Look, I think everyone knows that you can commission any
Speaker 3: pole or commission any modeling to basically get the result
Speaker 3: you want. You can slice and dice any numbers you want.
Speaker 3: It's a cliche, lies down lice and statistics. So that's
Speaker 3: that's all you do.
Speaker 2: But also, I mean look very simple, right and you
Speaker 2: know we telling anyone how.
Speaker 1: To do their gig.
Speaker 2: But obviously the word claim might appear in there somewhere.
Speaker 2: Instead stated this fact silent majority of Australian farmers found to.
Speaker 1: Support by a lobby group.
Speaker 14: And that was I think that was in the Guardian,
Speaker 14: you know, so so so along with that, you know,
Speaker 14: you have the headlines about you know, beat retproduction, beating
Speaker 14: the five of your plan and you know, tractor factory
Speaker 14: all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 14: So I mean, like like the whole thing is the
Speaker 14: people are with you.
Speaker 3: I don't made to see the Guardians next think piece,
Speaker 3: which is why we must end tariffs once and for all. Yeah,
Speaker 3: trade throughout the globe, correct, so that capital can find
Speaker 3: its natural.
Speaker 1: As written by the former head of the m U A,
Speaker 1: the A C t U and all.
Speaker 5: The rest of it by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels.
Speaker 2: Yeah all right, Nigel fried in a second, but before
Speaker 2: we're done, Kamala Harris, our, poor old Kamala. Of course
Speaker 2: she was supposed to ride now, just be measuring the curtains,
Speaker 2: changing the things, telling Jody get out of the way.
Speaker 2: Start her presidency two months early then demock.
Speaker 1: Of course it took place. I don't know why did that,
Speaker 1: but that's their their version.
Speaker 14: No, no, because with its democracy, it's our device they win.
Speaker 14: It's yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: So she backed off to Hawaii. Well, of course the
Speaker 2: beginnings are potentially World War three. It's starting to play out.
Speaker 2: But her staff are now talking to the super political
Speaker 2: people and are starting to say, leave all the options
Speaker 2: open for Quen Kamala, including that she may run again
Speaker 2: in four years time. If not, she might become the
Speaker 2: governor of California and then run four years after that. Interestingly,
Speaker 2: a Democratic strategist who's on a YouTube show that I
Speaker 2: watch an awful lot of if we can bring this
Speaker 2: back from the editorial guys, you know it, he says,
Speaker 2: no one is scared of this. No one who's turning
Speaker 2: around in the Democratic Party going, oh my goodness, it's
Speaker 2: like Donald Trump is planning to run for the third time.
Speaker 2: There is no chance anyone else can run. There's enough
Speaker 2: padding here is and I like his smile.
Speaker 15: Who is going to force these questions about her as
Speaker 15: a candidate are her opponents people who are thinking about
Speaker 15: twenty twenty eight. They've got very skilled staff they're gonna
Speaker 15: start to weak stories to make sure that she doesn't
Speaker 15: jump to the front of the line and cut them out.
Speaker 15: And I don't think any Democrat fears her in twenty
Speaker 15: twenty eight. They know she'd be a legit, you know,
Speaker 15: somebody too have to deal with, but they don't fear
Speaker 15: that she's a dominant, you know, strong candidate.
Speaker 2: So good point, right, So look, she can try. She
Speaker 2: might third time. Lucky, of course for Trump he ran
Speaker 2: three times one two out of three. Third time and
Speaker 2: her win zero out of three might be the result.
Speaker 14: What do you reckon, Well, I reckon that the Democrats,
Speaker 14: if they're going to win the presidency again, they're gonna
Speaker 14: need to go back and start actually trying to do
Speaker 14: business with the working class constituency that they have sent
Speaker 14: off to the Republicans. And you know, it's not gonna
Speaker 14: be Newsome, It's not gonna be Harris. Who the more
Speaker 14: anybody saw of Harris, the more the realize who's a
Speaker 14: vapid socialist idiot. But I reckon it's going to be
Speaker 14: somebody like Josh Shapiro, the governor Pennsylvania. He did not
Speaker 14: want to be the vice president. I went and watched
Speaker 14: a bunch of the stuff that he has done. He's
Speaker 14: a very smart, very sharp, intelligent guy, youngish. He could
Speaker 14: be the next future for the Democrats in twenty if
Speaker 14: the Democrats do what they need to do, which is
Speaker 14: to reconnect with actual, real people enough people who you
Speaker 14: know at the very top and very bartably the econd,
Speaker 14: I'm expect Herum.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this, this is this idea that you know,
Speaker 2: I know, Trump's going to be in his late seventies.
Speaker 1: Bidens in his late three hundreds.
Speaker 2: She's sixty, all right, She's going to be a multi
Speaker 2: Why does she's been in publican thirty?
Speaker 1: Why does she have to run for anything?
Speaker 5: She is?
Speaker 3: If she actually thinks this, she is absolutely deluded. She
Speaker 3: is an absolute pariah within the party. The one thing
Speaker 3: that everyone will be able to agree on, and it
Speaker 3: will be politically convenient for they can cover their own asses,
Speaker 3: because I can promise you everyone else has some need
Speaker 3: some blank wear as well.
Speaker 5: But they will just they will.
Speaker 3: It'll be like the cops who you know, have they
Speaker 3: arrest someone for murder and they know they've got him
Speaker 3: on that one, and so they just hang the other
Speaker 3: sixty unsolved homicides on him as well and send him.
Speaker 1: Away from it. She will be all the problem.
Speaker 3: She is going to be all the problems. She is
Speaker 3: most of the problems. It was a disgraceful campaign. I'm
Speaker 3: from what I read. I can't pretend I've got source
Speaker 3: in the party. But if this was happening to the
Speaker 3: Labor Party, everyone in Labor knows exactly what's happened over there.
Speaker 3: I'm told that, you know, people like Nate Silver are
Speaker 3: saying the Democrats genuinely understand this. You're blo there, genuine understanding.
Speaker 3: It's other people. Even Morning Joe understands it. Even AOC
Speaker 3: is starting to go, oh gee, wherez Maybe maybe.
Speaker 1: They say need to know my pronoun say it now?
Speaker 2: And then you know, the groups that have pulled them
Speaker 2: left keep screaming, thank you guys, do appreciate it. That'll
Speaker 2: be a fun chat in the car park with these
Speaker 2: two later, both of them on fine and I love it.
Speaker 2: Niger Ferra straight after the break, let's get.
Speaker 1: To it here, I pull Mariela.
Speaker 2: According to the Spectator magazine and those of us that
Speaker 2: are paying attention to UK politics, Niger Ferras is the
Speaker 2: future of the conservative or right wing side of politics,
Speaker 2: and I thoroughly.
Speaker 1: Agree, he joins us now.
Speaker 2: Of course, the g B news host and Reform Party
Speaker 2: leader joins us now from one of London. So that's
Speaker 2: a nice bit of a speculation out there. But it
Speaker 2: certainly puts together the message that you've been saying, how
Speaker 2: it links into what's happening in America and how the
Speaker 2: Conservatives are positioning themselves, which really isn't fit for purpose.
Speaker 16: No, I had no idea what the Conservatives even stand for,
Speaker 16: and after four general election victories where they promise one thing.
Speaker 1: And then did the other.
Speaker 16: I mean, basically, in Britain, if you want mass immigration,
Speaker 16: if you want voats crossing the channel, you want high
Speaker 16: taxes and state control, vote conservative or vote labor, and
Speaker 16: they're even worse. So that's kind of where we are.
Speaker 16: And by the way, just to correct you, I'm not
Speaker 16: right wing.
Speaker 5: I'm right minded.
Speaker 1: No, correct the right wing term. Sorry, I apologize, I
Speaker 1: get it. No.
Speaker 16: But but this is the interesting thing Trump one, because
Speaker 16: you pulled together a coalition of different groups of people,
Speaker 16: some of whom you know, on the old days you
Speaker 16: might have positioned on the left. The old left right
Speaker 16: thing is out the window now and this is there's
Speaker 16: a massive change, massive change going on, and hey, we've
Speaker 16: seen the same in Australia over the last ten to
Speaker 16: fifteen years, where the Liberal Party you know, pretended it
Speaker 16: would stand up for the right values and actually did
Speaker 16: the opposite once it was in office. So there's a
Speaker 16: massive change happening everywhere. It's happening in Europe too, and frankly,
Speaker 16: you know, for me, having come out of semi retirement
Speaker 16: to do it, it's a very very exciting time.
Speaker 2: Well, and don't forget too that obviously, as we've discussed before.
Speaker 2: You know, the length of time that the parliamentary term
Speaker 2: is what five years that's before a next election, and
Speaker 2: then obviously what would happen after it. So you've always
Speaker 2: said you're in it for the long term, but about
Speaker 2: two million people would like an election much sooner than
Speaker 2: five years away.
Speaker 1: Two million people have signed a petition. You've been pushing
Speaker 1: it along for a while. What does that tell you.
Speaker 16: Well, the fact that the petition is launched on Sunday
Speaker 16: and gets two million will two and a half million
Speaker 16: now signatures within forty eight hours. I've never seen a
Speaker 16: petition grow as quickly as this. There is a deep
Speaker 16: sense of dissatisfaction that a government that was elected with
Speaker 16: only twenty percent of the adults in the country voting
Speaker 16: for them with a massive majority, and I've now done
Speaker 16: things like attacking the farmers taking money away from pensioners
Speaker 16: that they didn't say they would do in the run
Speaker 16: up to the campaign in their manifestos. So there's a
Speaker 16: real breach of trust. And Starmer, I've got to tell you,
Speaker 16: I've never in all that in the half a century
Speaker 16: I've looked at politics, I've never seen a Prime minister
Speaker 16: lose popularity as quickly as this they're in. It's ironic.
Speaker 16: They're in real trouble and yet they've got a huge
Speaker 16: parliamentary majority.
Speaker 1: Things can only get worse. Yeah, more wide and each street.
Speaker 1: But this is what we've talked about about.
Speaker 2: The real change that the UK needs, which use a
Speaker 2: system that is not.
Speaker 1: The first past the post scenario anymore. Oh absolutely.
Speaker 16: I mean, look, you know, for every single labor MP
Speaker 16: there are thirty four thousand votes, right, for every reform
Speaker 16: MP there are eight hundred and fifteen thousand votes. I mean,
Speaker 16: the whole thing's absolutely bonkers and it needs to be reformed,
Speaker 16: along with much else in our country.
Speaker 2: Good stuff, great man. Look looking forward to seeing you've
Speaker 2: very soon. Thank you so much. Nigel Farage, I've agree
Speaker 2: with him about the right wing left wing thing right
Speaker 2: and I've.
Speaker 1: Talked about this before, right which is that? Also?
Speaker 2: I'm tired of the idea that the left own's compassion
Speaker 2: and the right owned strength. Bugger all of that. It's
Speaker 2: about normal people with obvious values. Okay, there are things
Speaker 2: that we will disagree about from time to time.
Speaker 1: There are things where.
Speaker 2: Someone might be a little further down the road than
Speaker 2: you are on something. But the idea of sort of
Speaker 2: the old labels. I completely with him, but they do
Speaker 2: not apply no more. Me and Kelly's on the show
Speaker 2: tomorrow night, looking forward to that conversation. Can we top
Speaker 2: last weeks where it even made the news in the
Speaker 2: United States?
Speaker 1: Will do our best till then, get ready for the
Speaker 1: late debat.
Speaker 2: You can send me an email, Paul lets going news
Speaker 2: dot com.
Speaker 11: You