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Speaker 1: Apodjay Production. Hi everyone, it's sal I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: jump on before the next episode and give a massive

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Speaker 1: shout out to you all. Thank you for listening to

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Speaker 1: the Missing Matter podcast. We have now reached five hundred

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Speaker 1: k downloads and that means that more people are hearing

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Speaker 1: these important stories of missing loved ones all around the

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Speaker 1: world in the hope that we find that someone who

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Speaker 1: knows something. We're almost near the end of season one

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Speaker 1: and I'd love to open the opportunity up to anyone

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Speaker 1: who has a story they need to tell. If you

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Speaker 1: or someone you know could benefit by joining me in

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Speaker 1: a gentle conversation on the Missing Matter podcast, please reach

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Speaker 1: out to me at info at the Missingmatter dot com.

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Speaker 1: Stay safe.

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Speaker 2: It's been almost twenty years since a mother of five,

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Speaker 2: Kathleen O'Shea, vanished without a trace in finals Queensland. Known

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Speaker 2: to everyone who loved her, she was forty four years old,

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Speaker 2: kind a little cheeky, and completely devoted to her kids.

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Speaker 2: In December of two thousand and five, Katie left Melbourne

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Speaker 2: with her youngest daughter to visit her eldest son in Atherton.

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Speaker 2: He and his partner were expecting their first child. Katie's

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Speaker 2: first grandchild, and she couldn't wait to be there for

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Speaker 2: the birth. She packed her suitcase full of baby clothes

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Speaker 2: and tiny trinkets, eager to meet the newest member of

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Speaker 2: a growing family. But just days before the baby arrived,

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Speaker 2: Katie disappeared. She was last seen in a small town

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Speaker 2: of Ravenshoe, an isolated pocket of the tablelands surrounded by

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Speaker 2: thick forest and winding country roads. Her bank card was

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Speaker 2: used one final time, and then nothing contact, no sightings,

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Speaker 2: no answers. In the years since, her children have been

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Speaker 2: left to live with the unimaginable, the silence that follows

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Speaker 2: when someone simply vanishes. Her eldest daughter, Lily, was only

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Speaker 2: nineteen when her mum went missing. Lily joined Sally in

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Speaker 2: the story of love, loss and endurance and a daughter

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Speaker 2: who refuses to let her mother be forgotten. This is

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Speaker 2: the Missing Matter, Katie matters.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody to the Missing Matter podcast. Today's story

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Speaker 1: is about a lady. Her name is Kathleen O'Shea Oen

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Speaker 1: to her friends and family as Katie, traveling from Melbourne

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Speaker 1: with her youngest daughter, eleven year old Bridget to Atherton

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Speaker 1: in North Queensland to visit her eldest son, Allan and

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Speaker 1: his partner, who were expecting their first baby. Katie was

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Speaker 1: super excited about being there for the birth of her

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Speaker 1: first grandchild. Katie never got to meet her and has

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Speaker 1: sadly never been seen again. Since Katie was forty four

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Speaker 1: years old at the time of her disappearance, she's been

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Speaker 1: missing sadly for seven thousand, two hundred and twenty seven days.

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Speaker 1: A loving mother of five children, Katie's eldest daughter was

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Speaker 1: only nineteen at the time of her mum's disappearance. And

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Speaker 1: Lily joins me today. Welcome to the Missing Matter podcast, Lily.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for having me now.

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Speaker 1: Lil it's going to be twenty years this December since

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Speaker 1: you last saw your mum. That's a very long time.

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Speaker 1: What are some of the memories that you hold closest

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Speaker 1: to your heart.

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Speaker 3: One of my favorite memories of mum was actually when

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Speaker 3: we used to try and skip church. My grandmother there

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Speaker 3: was an avid treashgoer, and she basically the priest used

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Speaker 3: to tell on us if we were at Sunday Mass.

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Speaker 3: The mum and I would often sneak into mass at

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Speaker 3: the start, and then we would sneak back out of mass.

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Speaker 4: When he wasn't looking.

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Speaker 3: And go home and watch Touch by an Angel because

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Speaker 3: in Mum's words, well God was mentioned in there somewhere.

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Speaker 3: And then we stood back in for the end of

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Speaker 3: Mass and Mum was like no one knows.

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Speaker 1: She sounds like she was a cheeky, fun loving character

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Speaker 1: from all counts of what I have read about her.

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Speaker 1: Those memories you must hold really close.

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Speaker 4: They do.

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Speaker 3: We never had a lot growing up, like most of

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Speaker 3: the time. It was a single income family and we

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Speaker 3: lived in rural North Queensland until I was about ten

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Speaker 3: or eleven, and then we came down here and Mum

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Speaker 3: was in a single mum so we didn't have a

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Speaker 3: lot growing up, but Mum always made sure that we

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Speaker 3: had exactly what we needed, even if at the time

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Speaker 3: we didn't think it was what we needed, it was

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Speaker 3: exactly what we needed in the long run. I hate

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Speaker 3: it when people sort of describe someone as just just

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Speaker 3: being a mum, but that was her.

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Speaker 4: Whole world revolved around being a mum.

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Speaker 3: That was all she wanted, and she wanted to make

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Speaker 3: sure that we all knew how much you truly loved us,

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Speaker 3: and she was always unbius champion.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes me sad. When I hear about mums

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Speaker 1: who are missing and they've left behind five children, it's

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Speaker 1: hard to comprehend that they would just up and choose

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Speaker 1: to leave.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that would never have even crossed her mind,

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Speaker 3: because all of our family photos there's always a child

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Speaker 3: attached to her hip one. If she was angry enough

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Speaker 3: to think I'm going to leave, she'd come back and

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Speaker 3: tell you sixteen thousand times why she was leaving, until

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Speaker 3: you were like, fine, just.

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Speaker 4: Leap go away, all right.

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Speaker 1: Well, thank you for joining me on here. I think

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Speaker 1: it's a really important conversation to have and bring awareness

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Speaker 1: to know what it is like for us with lived experience,

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Speaker 1: people who are living in this space of having a

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Speaker 1: missing person. Let's talk a little bit about the leader

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Speaker 1: up to what happened before your mum disappeared. It's December seventeenth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and five. Your mom was so excited about

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Speaker 1: the upcoming arrival of her first grandchild. You mentioned that

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Speaker 1: she'd actually packed more for the baby than for herself.

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Speaker 1: What do you remember about that time back in December

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Speaker 1: two thousand and five.

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Speaker 3: I think every second thing that she bought was either,

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Speaker 3: you know, something for little gifts for everyone else that

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Speaker 3: she was going to take up there, because Mom loved

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Speaker 3: to give little trinkets and stuff to everyone. And then

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Speaker 3: it was, you know, one thing for everyone else and

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Speaker 3: then six things.

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Speaker 4: For the baby.

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Speaker 3: This kid could have been clothes for the rest of

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Speaker 3: her life. Like Mum took so much stuff up, you know,

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Speaker 3: she was excited to be a grandma. I still remember

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Speaker 3: the day she told me that my brother was having

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Speaker 3: a baby. She'd flown up to visit them earlier that year,

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Speaker 3: and she came home. She says, hey, can you keep secret?

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Speaker 3: And I said yeah, and she says, I can't bry

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Speaker 3: as pregnant. Okay, when a you're going to make me

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Speaker 3: a grandma?

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Speaker 4: Said, you're already getting one. Calmed down.

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Speaker 3: I'm nineteen and went, I had your brother at sixteen.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, what's your point, Well.

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Speaker 1: From all accounts, you saw your mom two days before

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Speaker 1: she flew up to Queensland. What happened when you caught

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Speaker 1: up that last time.

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Speaker 3: I had gone over there to give Mum and bridget

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Speaker 3: their Christmas gifts and to send some gifts up on

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Speaker 3: the plane as well with it. And I was over

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Speaker 3: there with my boyfriend at the time. And my mum

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Speaker 3: was cranky because she'd gotten into a fight with my uncle,

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Speaker 3: who was her ex brother in law, who was originally

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Speaker 3: going to drive her to the airport. Then she doesked

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Speaker 3: my boyfriend for a left and he only had like

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Speaker 3: a two seater. Anyway, she ended up making up with

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Speaker 3: my uncle about two hours later and they were fine,

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Speaker 3: and he drove her anyway. But I'd gone over there

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Speaker 3: to give her these little crystal necklace. And when you're

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Speaker 3: a first year apprentice, you're making about five dollar an hour,

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Speaker 3: and so that was about a third of my wage.

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Speaker 4: And I gave it to her and she's like, oh baby,

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Speaker 4: I love it so much.

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Speaker 3: As she put it on straight away and she's like,

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Speaker 3: I'm never going to take it off. And then we

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Speaker 3: hugged and I said, I'll see you in a month.

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Speaker 3: Have a happy Christmas, and yeah. Then she was off

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Speaker 3: two days later.

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Speaker 1: Now, Katie was staying with your half brother, Allan and

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Speaker 1: his partner at your godmother's property. Your godmother's name is Loma,

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Speaker 1: So we talk about Loma a little bit through this story,

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Speaker 1: which was situated in Raven's Hoe, which is approximately about

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Speaker 1: an hour and a half drive southwest of Canns. Can

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Speaker 1: you describe Atherton for those who are listening who might

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Speaker 1: not have ever been to this part of the world.

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Speaker 3: The Athidon table Lines is situated on an old volcanic crater,

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Speaker 3: so there's lots of forest, there's lots of dairy farming,

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Speaker 3: beef farming. The narrative tea farmers up there as well.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's very isolated around that sort of area.

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Speaker 3: I think it's like one point two people per kilometer,

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Speaker 3: I think they said spaced out, so it's very rural,

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Speaker 3: but it's beautiful.

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Speaker 4: Highly reckmend going there.

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Speaker 1: I had read that Katie and Bridget who's your little sister,

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Speaker 1: was said to have set up a tent in the

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Speaker 1: backyard at Loma's. It's December. It's the middle of summer

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Speaker 1: here in Australia, and the average temperature in December ranges

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Speaker 1: up there between twenty seven and thirty one degrees. It's

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Speaker 1: also regarded as the summer wet season. Was it unusual

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Speaker 1: for your mum to stay in a tent as opposed

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Speaker 1: to in the house, especially being that she'd planned to

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Speaker 1: stay for four weeks.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, I don't think she knew that they were staying intense.

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Speaker 3: She wasn't much of a camp in my mother, and

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Speaker 3: she didn't really have a spare tent laying around, so

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Speaker 3: I'd imagine it was kind of sprung on her, and

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Speaker 3: I guess she was sort of like, well, I guess

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Speaker 3: if this is it, then this is it. Like it's

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Speaker 3: not like she can really you know, she wanted to

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Speaker 3: be there and spend as much time as everyone as possible,

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Speaker 3: so it's not like she wanted to go anywhere else.

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Speaker 3: And you know, she was a single mom on a pension,

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Speaker 3: so it's not like she could really afford to go

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Speaker 3: and stay in a hotel in town and stuff. Also,

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Speaker 3: you'd need to be able to drive to get back

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Speaker 3: and forth, and Mom didn't drive. Yeah, so I don't

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Speaker 3: think it was she knew that there was going to

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Speaker 3: be tent city up there.

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Speaker 1: And have you been to that house? Like was there

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Speaker 1: rooms and stuff for her available at the house or

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Speaker 1: was it a case that it was just a small shed

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Speaker 1: at the back of the property. So my godmother, she

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Speaker 1: likes to live quite remotely and off the land. You know,

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Speaker 1: she's very self sustainable.

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Speaker 3: So she's got it like a little sort of house

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Speaker 3: towards the property. But I've been to where they were staying,

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Speaker 3: and yeah, there wasn't anything for anyone else to really stay.

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Speaker 4: I think everyone slept in individual tense.

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Speaker 3: I know I was quite taken aback when we sort

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Speaker 3: of went up there and I went, oh, right, it's okay.

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Speaker 1: So on the twenty second of December, your mom calls

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Speaker 1: your brother Danny to apologize for not calling him on

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Speaker 1: his birthday due to having no phone service where she was.

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Speaker 1: She was known to be a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: free spirit, and she didn't really have a lot of

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Speaker 1: time for technology, in particular her phone, so it was

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Speaker 1: no real surprise if you didn't hear from her, or

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Speaker 1: if she didn't answer her phone when you'd call.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So Mom used to have an old address book

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Speaker 3: that she used to write everyone's phone numbers in. She

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Speaker 3: did have a mobile phone, but she never used it

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Speaker 3: because of a popped up credit. And even when we'd

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Speaker 3: buy her credit, she'd still call you from a payphone

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Speaker 3: and you'd be like, Mom, do you.

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Speaker 4: Not have your phone?

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Speaker 3: And you go, oh, this thing it gives you brain cancer,

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Speaker 3: Like all right, okay, okay, So yeah, she wasn't really

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Speaker 3: much for it.

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Speaker 1: I want to do a bit of a dive into

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Speaker 1: a couple of days leading up. So we've just mentioned

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Speaker 1: that she's called Danny and that was on the twenty

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Speaker 1: second of December. His birthday was two days earlier, on

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Speaker 1: the twentieth. Can you tell us what happened the following day?

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Speaker 1: I've noted that Tim, your other brother, was going to

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Speaker 1: a dentist appointment at Mariba.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so Mum was taking him in to go to

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Speaker 3: the dentist, and she knew that one of her best

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Speaker 3: friends also lived in Mariba, so she had run into

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Speaker 3: her nephew and she sort of said, Hey, where's Deb.

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Speaker 3: So he sort of said, oh, look, I can take

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Speaker 3: you to Debs and Mom gave her a Christmas present,

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Speaker 3: which was one of those little handheld fans.

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Speaker 4: My God.

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Speaker 3: Mam Loma eventually came to pick her up and Mum

239
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Speaker 3: had told Deb, I'll see you on the sixth of

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Speaker 3: January because she was going to bring Tim back into

241
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Speaker 3: Marie Bart to the dentist. Obviously, she missed that appointment

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Speaker 3: and that was the last time that Deb heard us

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Speaker 3: all Mum.

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Speaker 1: From all counts. Deb said that Katie was in a

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Speaker 1: really great headspace. She was super excited about becoming a grandma,

246
00:12:19,481 --> 00:12:23,161
Speaker 1: showed no signs of never seeing her ever again. This

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Speaker 1: is an important time in the timeline, I think, because

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Speaker 1: it is the last time Deb sees her friend Katie.

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Speaker 1: And then five days later, your mom travels to Atherton

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Speaker 1: to do some shopping. It's now the twenty eighth of December,

251
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Speaker 1: and your mom calls you from a payphone. What do

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Speaker 1: you remember about that phone call?

253
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Speaker 3: It wasn't a long phone call, you know, So she

254
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Speaker 3: just asked about Christmas and apologized for not ringing on

255
00:12:43,841 --> 00:12:46,961
Speaker 3: Christmas and said, look, there's no phone reception, and you know,

256
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Speaker 3: I said, no problem, no problem. Mum once again was

257
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Speaker 3: really excited to be a grandmother. And then she said, look, baby,

258
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Speaker 3: I got to go, but I'll see you when I

259
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Speaker 3: get home, and don't forget how much I love you

260
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Speaker 3: and how proud of you I am. And then I said, yeah,

261
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Speaker 3: I love you too, Mum. I didn't think anything more

262
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Speaker 3: of it, But how prolific those final words ended up being.

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Speaker 4: I guess yeah.

264
00:13:05,961 --> 00:13:07,441
Speaker 3: When she said don't forget how much I love you

265
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Speaker 3: and how proud of you I am, I was like,

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Speaker 3: all right, whatever, you said that all the time. But

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Speaker 3: then there's also a part of me my book was

268
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Speaker 3: theres something that where she was like foreshadowing, you know,

269
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Speaker 3: was that a sign that was foreshadowing and I just

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Speaker 3: missed it. I just wish I could go Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: have these days where I just wish I could go

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Speaker 3: back in time and just.

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Speaker 4: I don't even know.

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Speaker 3: You know, when you just go a bauck, you think

275
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Speaker 3: back and you go shultar cut order. I have a

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Speaker 3: lot of sugar cutter order around those moments.

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Speaker 1: Twenty ninth of December. Next day, it's noted that your

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Speaker 1: mom withdrew two hundred dollars from her bank account, which

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Speaker 1: was a Commonwealth Bank account from the ravens Hoe Post office,

280
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Speaker 1: this being the last know and timestamp for your mom,

281
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Speaker 1: making it the date that she is noted as missing. Yes,

282
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Speaker 1: you tried to call your mom to wish her happy

283
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Speaker 1: New Year, but there was no answer, and you noted

284
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Speaker 1: it was at this point that your gut told you

285
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Speaker 1: that something isn't quite right. Can you tell us how

286
00:14:06,921 --> 00:14:08,481
Speaker 1: you were feeling at this point?

287
00:14:08,641 --> 00:14:10,601
Speaker 3: You know, around years, you do your obligatory you know,

288
00:14:10,641 --> 00:14:13,881
Speaker 3: happy a Year calls and messages and stuff, and I

289
00:14:14,081 --> 00:14:16,681
Speaker 3: wanted to call mum and say Happy a Year and

290
00:14:16,881 --> 00:14:19,681
Speaker 3: I didn't expect for her to answer the phone because well,

291
00:14:19,721 --> 00:14:22,721
Speaker 3: there was no reception. But when it sort of still

292
00:14:22,761 --> 00:14:24,961
Speaker 3: went to I can't remember if it was voicemail or

293
00:14:25,081 --> 00:14:28,241
Speaker 3: just but I just remember when I got to that point,

294
00:14:28,321 --> 00:14:30,761
Speaker 3: I sort of my heart just sunk and I just

295
00:14:30,761 --> 00:14:32,481
Speaker 3: got this light. It was like I'd been kicked in

296
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Speaker 3: the gut. And I remember my boyfriend sort of looked

297
00:14:35,241 --> 00:14:36,401
Speaker 3: at me and I said, are you okay? And I said,

298
00:14:36,401 --> 00:14:38,961
Speaker 3: I'm just I don't feel right, and he said, what

299
00:14:38,961 --> 00:14:40,841
Speaker 3: do you mean. I said, Mom didn't answer her phone,

300
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Speaker 3: and I just I can't explain it. I just felt

301
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Speaker 3: like there was something off. And even though he said

302
00:14:45,761 --> 00:14:48,081
Speaker 3: she's got no phone reception, I mean, yeah, you're probably right,

303
00:14:48,121 --> 00:14:50,521
Speaker 3: but there was still I still felt like I got

304
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Speaker 3: kicked in the gut. And it was just it was

305
00:14:52,121 --> 00:14:55,041
Speaker 3: a really sinking feeling, and I can't explain it to

306
00:14:55,081 --> 00:14:58,041
Speaker 3: this very day. It was literally like I'd been kicked

307
00:14:58,041 --> 00:15:00,361
Speaker 3: in the gut. You know, if I just listened to

308
00:15:00,361 --> 00:15:03,161
Speaker 3: my gut first, because Mum was always a big advocate

309
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Speaker 3: for always listen to your gut, and you know, I

310
00:15:06,601 --> 00:15:08,281
Speaker 3: have these moments where I'm like, maybe if I just

311
00:15:08,361 --> 00:15:10,721
Speaker 3: tried a little bit harder when my gut wasn't feeling

312
00:15:10,801 --> 00:15:14,081
Speaker 3: quite right, that maybe I could have avoided this somehow

313
00:15:14,161 --> 00:15:16,041
Speaker 3: or but it always sort of just leads me into

314
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Speaker 3: making myself feel a little bit more guilty that nothing

315
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Speaker 3: was started sooner.

316
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Speaker 1: So on this day, your half brother Allan texts you

317
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Speaker 1: and lets you know that the baby is being born.

318
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Speaker 1: You asked about your mum and Alan told you that

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Speaker 1: she hadn't turned up and that she didn't call to

320
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Speaker 1: congratulate them either. When did the alarm bells start to

321
00:15:37,841 --> 00:15:38,321
Speaker 1: go off?

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Speaker 3: Probably around that time, because he texted me and I

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Speaker 3: quickly called him and sort of went, oh, look, i'll

324
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Speaker 3: give you a call tonight. I had ranging back later on.

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Speaker 3: I said, so, what did mum do when the baby

326
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Speaker 3: was born? And said, well, what do you mean? I said, well,

327
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Speaker 3: did she come in dear the birthing room? And he

328
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Speaker 3: has she's not here? And I said what do you

329
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Speaker 3: mean she's not there? And once again I got that

330
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Speaker 3: duck feeling. He goes, she missed the births and I said,

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Speaker 3: what do you mean she missed the birth? And he goes, well,

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Speaker 3: she's at Deab's house And I said, when did she

333
00:16:04,921 --> 00:16:06,801
Speaker 3: go to Deb's house and he goes, I don't know,

334
00:16:06,921 --> 00:16:08,401
Speaker 3: like I dropped her in just for four years. And

335
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Speaker 3: I said, she's been gone all this time. He goes yeah,

336
00:16:10,361 --> 00:16:13,361
Speaker 3: And I said, has anyone tried to call her? He goes, no,

337
00:16:13,401 --> 00:16:14,961
Speaker 3: I've got her phone. I'm like, well, then how can

338
00:16:15,001 --> 00:16:17,481
Speaker 3: I get a hold of Deb? And he said to me,

339
00:16:17,801 --> 00:16:20,441
Speaker 3: I don't have Deb's number, but Loma would have Deb's number,

340
00:16:21,121 --> 00:16:24,321
Speaker 3: So I said, well, what's Loma's number and he goes,

341
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Speaker 3: I don't have it. So then I had to call

342
00:16:26,321 --> 00:16:28,921
Speaker 3: around half of Queensland to get Loma's phone number, only

343
00:16:28,961 --> 00:16:31,241
Speaker 3: to find out, like much later on in the story,

344
00:16:31,281 --> 00:16:34,201
Speaker 3: that he was living on Loma's property. Finally spoke to

345
00:16:34,241 --> 00:16:37,161
Speaker 3: Loma and Lomas said, look, I'm actually Marie visiting my mum.

346
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Speaker 4: I'll go grab your mum.

347
00:16:39,041 --> 00:16:42,201
Speaker 3: And the plan was for me to just say to

348
00:16:42,281 --> 00:16:45,161
Speaker 3: mom get home now, because Alan was annoyed at her

349
00:16:45,201 --> 00:16:47,841
Speaker 3: for missing the birth and so then Loma said to me,

350
00:16:47,881 --> 00:16:49,641
Speaker 3: give me ten minutes and I'll put.

351
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Speaker 4: Your mum on. And I can't remember if she texted

352
00:16:52,241 --> 00:16:53,281
Speaker 4: me or she called.

353
00:16:53,081 --> 00:16:54,881
Speaker 3: Me or something or anything like that, but she goes

354
00:16:54,921 --> 00:16:56,321
Speaker 3: it was something like there's something wrong.

355
00:16:56,361 --> 00:16:57,241
Speaker 4: We need to go to the police.

356
00:16:57,321 --> 00:17:00,121
Speaker 3: Katie's not here and I rang Alan back and I said,

357
00:17:00,161 --> 00:17:01,561
Speaker 3: Mom's not at Debs and he goes, what do you

358
00:17:01,641 --> 00:17:03,281
Speaker 3: mean she's not there?

359
00:17:03,321 --> 00:17:05,041
Speaker 4: And she never arrived at Debs.

360
00:17:05,961 --> 00:17:08,521
Speaker 3: I said, we need to report him missing, and he goes, no,

361
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,360
Speaker 3: she's just going to get angry. And I said, I

362
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,801
Speaker 3: don't care, we need to go to the police. And

363
00:17:15,921 --> 00:17:18,001
Speaker 3: him managed to talk me into giving him three days

364
00:17:18,001 --> 00:17:20,041
Speaker 3: so we could make phone calls and find her, because

365
00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,001
Speaker 3: she'd get really cranky if the police came. And I

366
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:23,801
Speaker 3: was in the camp of I don't care, she can

367
00:17:23,801 --> 00:17:25,680
Speaker 3: get mad. We just need to know where she is.

368
00:17:26,481 --> 00:17:28,281
Speaker 3: So he said, look good, just give me till Friday.

369
00:17:28,360 --> 00:17:30,721
Speaker 3: And this was the Tuesday. He told me he dropped

370
00:17:30,721 --> 00:17:32,080
Speaker 3: her off on Atheton and she was going to get a

371
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,081
Speaker 3: taxi to Debs from Mariba. From there, I rang every

372
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,440
Speaker 3: bottle shop and Atheton the bottle shop he said that

373
00:17:38,521 --> 00:17:41,721
Speaker 3: he dropped her off at. I remember specifically calling them

374
00:17:42,241 --> 00:17:45,561
Speaker 3: and asking him if they stocked one specific type of drink,

375
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,440
Speaker 3: which was Cooper Stout, the yellow label.

376
00:17:47,721 --> 00:17:50,801
Speaker 4: That was the only thing my mother ever drank. I

377
00:17:50,921 --> 00:17:52,400
Speaker 4: rang each one and I said, did you stock. Do

378
00:17:52,441 --> 00:17:52,880
Speaker 4: you stock this?

379
00:17:53,001 --> 00:17:54,680
Speaker 3: No, no, no, And every single one of them said they

380
00:17:54,721 --> 00:17:58,961
Speaker 3: don't stop that drink. So I rang churches, I rang

381
00:17:59,001 --> 00:18:00,881
Speaker 3: the hosle, I rang the local like jail to see

382
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:02,681
Speaker 3: if my mom had gotten locked up by it somehow.

383
00:18:03,321 --> 00:18:04,440
Speaker 4: I rang cafes.

384
00:18:04,521 --> 00:18:06,481
Speaker 3: I literally ran everywhere I can think of, and I

385
00:18:06,481 --> 00:18:09,041
Speaker 3: said to and I kept calling him saying she's not anywhere,

386
00:18:09,801 --> 00:18:10,521
Speaker 3: and he said, no, Na.

387
00:18:10,561 --> 00:18:12,480
Speaker 4: She'll be around, She'll she'll turn up, she'll turn up.

388
00:18:12,481 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 4: And I'm like, I don't know where she is though.

389
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,801
Speaker 3: And finally, you know, after those couple of days of

390
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,160
Speaker 3: me literally just living in this like weird headspace of

391
00:18:20,321 --> 00:18:22,920
Speaker 3: just trying to think of every place I could think of,

392
00:18:22,961 --> 00:18:25,001
Speaker 3: and calling everyone I could think of, have you seen mum?

393
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:25,840
Speaker 4: Do you know what this is?

394
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,281
Speaker 3: And me wanting to go to the police and report

395
00:18:29,321 --> 00:18:31,321
Speaker 3: her missing. But I didn't know that you could do

396
00:18:31,441 --> 00:18:33,480
Speaker 3: that from interstate.

397
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,321
Speaker 1: Because you were in Melbourne, right, Yeah I was.

398
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:37,681
Speaker 4: I was in Melbourne. And it's been.

399
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,481
Speaker 1: Eleven days too, let's just put that out there. So

400
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:42,761
Speaker 1: the money was withdrawn out of her bank account. It's

401
00:18:42,801 --> 00:18:46,120
Speaker 1: now eleven days later at this point that you're having

402
00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:49,360
Speaker 1: these conversations and then you're getting pushed back again.

403
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:50,721
Speaker 4: It'll continually delay it.

404
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,120
Speaker 3: And then finally he said, he went into the police

405
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:56,920
Speaker 3: station on ironically, Friday the thirteenth to report my missing.

406
00:18:57,521 --> 00:19:01,200
Speaker 1: So just confirming it was your brother Allan who listed

407
00:19:01,241 --> 00:19:01,880
Speaker 1: her as missing.

408
00:19:02,521 --> 00:19:04,240
Speaker 3: This is where it gets a little bit cloudy for me,

409
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:07,440
Speaker 3: because in the the evidence brief of the inquest stuff,

410
00:19:07,481 --> 00:19:10,400
Speaker 3: what I sort of read was that he had walked

411
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 3: in and was like umming and a ring on, like

412
00:19:12,001 --> 00:19:14,561
Speaker 3: if mum had been locked up, like the process of

413
00:19:14,561 --> 00:19:17,761
Speaker 3: reporting someone missing, and the desk sergeant kept saying to him,

414
00:19:17,761 --> 00:19:20,041
Speaker 3: you want me to report her missing? And he said, no, no, no,

415
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,561
Speaker 3: she'll turn up. She'll turn up. The death stand sort

416
00:19:22,561 --> 00:19:24,681
Speaker 3: of took some details and said I can file this now,

417
00:19:24,681 --> 00:19:26,640
Speaker 3: and he goes, no, give me till I'll look for

418
00:19:26,721 --> 00:19:29,321
Speaker 3: over the weekend, and the death sid said, if I

419
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:31,601
Speaker 3: call you back on Monday or Tuesday, whenever he got

420
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,561
Speaker 3: back into work, you're going to report her missing.

421
00:19:33,561 --> 00:19:34,481
Speaker 4: He says, yeah, I'll let you.

422
00:19:34,441 --> 00:19:36,400
Speaker 3: Know, and he gets back to it, and so I

423
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,120
Speaker 3: think from my understanding, the desk sergeant sort of went

424
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,281
Speaker 3: and that seems weird and reported her missing on that

425
00:19:42,441 --> 00:19:44,801
Speaker 3: day and He then rang my brother when he got

426
00:19:44,801 --> 00:19:47,761
Speaker 3: back to work the fall after the weekend to say,

427
00:19:47,761 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 3: have you found your mother? And he went, nah, nah,

428
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,960
Speaker 3: but she'll turn up. So he's told everyone he reported

429
00:19:52,961 --> 00:19:56,041
Speaker 3: her missing. But to my knowledge, it wasn't actually him.

430
00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:58,561
Speaker 3: It was the desk sergeant that reported her missing.

431
00:19:59,241 --> 00:20:03,400
Speaker 1: And so what detriment did this delay or push back

432
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:08,001
Speaker 1: in going to the police cause, being that she hadn't

433
00:20:08,041 --> 00:20:11,120
Speaker 1: been seen since Alan dropped her off in town with

434
00:20:11,201 --> 00:20:13,201
Speaker 1: her saying that she's going to the pub to play

435
00:20:13,241 --> 00:20:17,921
Speaker 1: pool fifteen days earlier. By now, so we've lost all

436
00:20:18,001 --> 00:20:21,761
Speaker 1: CCTV lost opportunities to look at footage from her going

437
00:20:21,761 --> 00:20:24,041
Speaker 1: into the post office, for example, to take out that

438
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 1: two hundred dollars. What's your take on that?

439
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,721
Speaker 3: All they say the first for it is the most

440
00:20:30,721 --> 00:20:33,680
Speaker 3: critical time for crime or missing persons there or anything

441
00:20:33,681 --> 00:20:37,080
Speaker 3: like that, Like everything was. You know, after a certain

442
00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 3: amount of time, people start to forget, even if it

443
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:42,361
Speaker 3: is a few days later, Like we lost those critical

444
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:44,880
Speaker 3: first few days of being able to interview people while

445
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 3: that was still fresh in the minds of everyone. CCTV footage,

446
00:20:48,801 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 3: you know, it's sort of when she was finally reported missing,

447
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:53,440
Speaker 3: it was like saying here, like you know, the police

448
00:20:53,481 --> 00:20:55,281
Speaker 3: going into it with one hand tied behind their back,

449
00:20:55,441 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 3: because all the important stuff that's thirteen days after that

450
00:20:59,681 --> 00:21:01,001
Speaker 3: last thirteen days previously.

451
00:21:01,241 --> 00:21:03,880
Speaker 1: And there's lots of things going on too. You've got Christmas,

452
00:21:03,961 --> 00:21:07,321
Speaker 1: you've got New Year's, You've got people coming and going

453
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:12,360
Speaker 1: inside and outside of areas like Athton Tableland. And when

454
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:15,281
Speaker 1: I was going back through the notes and doing some

455
00:21:15,321 --> 00:21:18,160
Speaker 1: research on the case and looking at the findings, what

456
00:21:18,321 --> 00:21:20,761
Speaker 1: stood out to me a lot was that all these

457
00:21:20,801 --> 00:21:23,801
Speaker 1: people that the police had actually attempted to talk to,

458
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 1: they would give evidence of I saw her, but then

459
00:21:27,241 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 1: they go, oh, actually it might have been a different date,

460
00:21:30,801 --> 00:21:32,680
Speaker 1: or it might have been at a different location. So

461
00:21:32,961 --> 00:21:34,761
Speaker 1: I was just it was just one after the other

462
00:21:34,801 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 1: and I was like, wow, this is a lot of

463
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,881
Speaker 1: potential sightings. But then there's no, yes, it was definitely her.

464
00:21:41,041 --> 00:21:44,561
Speaker 1: It it sort of changed its tune and I thought, jeez,

465
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:49,521
Speaker 1: that is really damaging. So on the fourteenth of January,

466
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 1: you flew to central Queensland and there you bet your

467
00:21:52,681 --> 00:21:55,161
Speaker 1: dad and the two of you drove for eighteen hours

468
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 1: to get to Atherton to help look for your mum.

469
00:21:57,561 --> 00:22:00,801
Speaker 1: What was going through your mind, driving so long to

470
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,801
Speaker 1: get to where you knew your mum was last known

471
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 1: to be, not knowing where she was.

472
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,761
Speaker 3: I was kind of numb when I told my dad,

473
00:22:09,801 --> 00:22:11,761
Speaker 3: because my dad was actually coming down to Melbourne to

474
00:22:11,801 --> 00:22:14,441
Speaker 3: visit us, and I sort of had to ring him

475
00:22:14,441 --> 00:22:18,001
Speaker 3: on his birthday and go, hey, so mum's missing. Basically,

476
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:19,321
Speaker 3: he said to me, you're going to come up to

477
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:21,241
Speaker 3: Queensland and I said, no, Dad, I lose my job.

478
00:22:21,281 --> 00:22:22,041
Speaker 3: I lose my job.

479
00:22:22,481 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 2: You know.

480
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,521
Speaker 3: I was still a first year apprentice, and I remember

481
00:22:24,521 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 3: my dad said to me, I don't give an f

482
00:22:26,281 --> 00:22:27,561
Speaker 3: you can find another effing job.

483
00:22:27,721 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 4: Get on the plane. And so off I went. So

484
00:22:31,281 --> 00:22:31,681
Speaker 4: I got things.

485
00:22:31,721 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 3: I got up to Emerald Central, Queensland at nine o'clock

486
00:22:34,961 --> 00:22:37,281
Speaker 3: that in the evening, and by eleven o'clock that evening

487
00:22:37,321 --> 00:22:38,561
Speaker 3: we were driving straight through.

488
00:22:39,201 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 4: I didn't know what.

489
00:22:39,961 --> 00:22:41,481
Speaker 3: To think because there was some part of me though,

490
00:22:41,481 --> 00:22:43,281
Speaker 3: I was sort of like, is she just avoiding us?

491
00:22:43,321 --> 00:22:45,281
Speaker 3: Like what's going on here? So there was some part

492
00:22:45,281 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 3: of me where I just I had this not in

493
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,561
Speaker 3: my stomach. But then I guess there was another part

494
00:22:49,561 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 3: of me that was trying to I was kind of angry.

495
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,041
Speaker 3: At it for doing it too, because I thought, did

496
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 3: she do this on purpose? Like is this intentional? And

497
00:22:56,721 --> 00:22:58,681
Speaker 3: then we'd gotten a phone call for my brother saying

498
00:22:58,681 --> 00:23:00,360
Speaker 3: that we really need to get up their asap. So

499
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:02,481
Speaker 3: then it was just we just had to go, and

500
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 3: it was a big blur.

501
00:23:03,761 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: It would have been a really tough time you and

502
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: everybody else. Like Bridget is obviously staying with Alan and

503
00:23:09,761 --> 00:23:12,801
Speaker 1: his partner. She's eleven. You know, how was she coping

504
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 1: at that time?

505
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:15,401
Speaker 4: She was never far from mum.

506
00:23:15,561 --> 00:23:17,920
Speaker 3: Bridgitte is always out on her hip or next to her,

507
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,201
Speaker 3: and you know, Mum was Bridget's best friend. Like, yeah,

508
00:23:22,281 --> 00:23:24,201
Speaker 3: I can't imagine what she must have been buying through.

509
00:23:24,201 --> 00:23:26,241
Speaker 3: And to be honest, I think she's sort of blocked

510
00:23:26,241 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 3: a lot of it out as well. She's you know,

511
00:23:27,761 --> 00:23:29,921
Speaker 3: there'll be some instance as where I said, hey, Bridge,

512
00:23:29,921 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 3: do you remember this, and she go, yeah, I've got

513
00:23:31,241 --> 00:23:35,001
Speaker 3: no idea. I could only remember that it traumatized her

514
00:23:35,001 --> 00:23:37,801
Speaker 3: so much. She just she remembers, you know, people getting

515
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,561
Speaker 3: worried and stuff, but that's all she can really remember.

516
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,001
Speaker 3: And it was a lot for Bridgie out of everyone,

517
00:23:44,521 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 3: like we all went through it pretty badly. But I

518
00:23:46,481 --> 00:23:48,481
Speaker 3: think out everyone. Bridget copped at the worst because she's

519
00:23:48,521 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 3: lost so much in such a short space of time.

520
00:23:52,281 --> 00:23:54,641
Speaker 1: So we have another date that I feel is really

521
00:23:54,721 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 1: important to mention. So the seventeenth of January. You've been

522
00:23:58,481 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: up for a few days and your mum and Bridget

523
00:24:01,041 --> 00:24:04,561
Speaker 1: had flights booked to fly back to Melbourne. And this

524
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,801
Speaker 1: is an important timestamp, wasn't it.

525
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,961
Speaker 3: Yes, because my cousin's wedding was the twenty first of January,

526
00:24:12,561 --> 00:24:14,921
Speaker 3: and she obviously wanted to be there for that. And

527
00:24:14,961 --> 00:24:18,841
Speaker 3: when they missed the flights, then that's when it made

528
00:24:18,961 --> 00:24:21,241
Speaker 3: all the more real that there is something really bad

529
00:24:21,281 --> 00:24:23,281
Speaker 3: going on, because Mum wouldn't have missed that either.

530
00:24:23,481 --> 00:24:25,001
Speaker 4: My family was really important to mum.

531
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,761
Speaker 1: It seemed a little bit out of the ordinary that

532
00:24:27,801 --> 00:24:30,201
Speaker 1: she wouldn't turn up to catch the flight home. If

533
00:24:30,201 --> 00:24:32,321
Speaker 1: it was a case that she'd just gone to see

534
00:24:32,321 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: a friend for a couple of weeks.

535
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 3: Can you imagine going to visit someone going I'm just

536
00:24:36,201 --> 00:24:37,761
Speaker 3: going to pop in for a few weeks. The friend

537
00:24:37,761 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 3: would just be like, can you leave. I can't imagine

538
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:42,801
Speaker 3: her just sitting there with a friend for just a

539
00:24:42,801 --> 00:24:46,281
Speaker 3: good few weeks and going I've missed everything. I've missed

540
00:24:46,321 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 3: my granddaughter being born, I've missed my flight home, my daughters.

541
00:24:49,561 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 3: I wonder how they're doing. That wasn't in mum's character.

542
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 3: I know that wasn't in mum's character. Then that's the

543
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 3: first thing whenever anyone goes.

544
00:24:55,721 --> 00:24:57,521
Speaker 4: Well, maybe this i' much. She would not have never

545
00:24:57,521 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 4: would have left bridget.

546
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:00,241
Speaker 2: So.

547
00:25:00,281 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: On the eighteenth of January, the day after she misses

548
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 1: her flight, a police this investigation commenced called Operation Echo Majestic,

549
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,641
Speaker 1: where local police and homicide detectives start to look into

550
00:25:12,681 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: the case. Your mum is now missing twenty days. Only

551
00:25:17,201 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 1: then did the investigation start. So what problems did this

552
00:25:21,561 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: cause with regards to finding key information as to what's

553
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 1: happened to your mom back on Thursday, the twenty ninth

554
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,601
Speaker 1: of December two thousand and five, and what, in your opinion,

555
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:31,561
Speaker 1: could have been done better.

556
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 3: Obviously, the sightings were a big issue because a lot

557
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:38,921
Speaker 3: of people had started to misremember things. I think there

558
00:25:38,921 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 3: should have been a couple more interviews done of my

559
00:25:41,041 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 3: sister in law, my youngest brother, and my sister in

560
00:25:43,721 --> 00:25:44,241
Speaker 3: law's family.

561
00:25:44,241 --> 00:25:45,521
Speaker 4: They were around it at that time.

562
00:25:45,961 --> 00:25:48,361
Speaker 3: But other than that, that's pretty much the only critique

563
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 3: I can really think of, because, as I said, like

564
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,321
Speaker 3: they've sort of had to go into this with one

565
00:25:52,441 --> 00:25:54,561
Speaker 3: arm tied behind their back. There was only so much

566
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,321
Speaker 3: they could do considering you know, it was twenty days

567
00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:02,401
Speaker 3: and my brother was being uncooperative to a point. They

568
00:26:02,441 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 3: had very limited information on what was going on around

569
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 3: that time because you know, she's left her phone there,

570
00:26:08,441 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 3: so there was that. Then she was supposed to be somewhere,

571
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,561
Speaker 3: and then she just wasn't. It was almost like she

572
00:26:12,721 --> 00:26:15,961
Speaker 3: just vanished into the air. Yeah, thinking back, I don't

573
00:26:15,961 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 3: know if I could really critique anything other than just

574
00:26:18,201 --> 00:26:19,721
Speaker 3: the couple of interview statements.

575
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,121
Speaker 1: All right, so let's just move forward. We're now January

576
00:26:24,201 --> 00:26:28,801
Speaker 1: twenty fourth. The Commonwealth Bank confirms for the inquest that

577
00:26:28,921 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 1: no further activity is on Katie's account. Then, on the

578
00:26:32,481 --> 00:26:35,721
Speaker 1: thirtieth of November two thousand and six, checks are made

579
00:26:35,761 --> 00:26:40,041
Speaker 1: again with the Commonwealth Bank and still no further activity.

580
00:26:40,721 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 1: Let's jump forward now a few years later. It's on

581
00:26:44,521 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: May twelfth, twenty fourteen, the inquest commences. It went for

582
00:26:49,241 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 1: three days. There were seventeen witnesses that gave evidence, but

583
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,041
Speaker 1: it had to be paused because your brother Allan was

584
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,641
Speaker 1: subpoena to give evidence, but he didn't show up. As

585
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,161
Speaker 1: Alan was the last person knowing to Katie to see her,

586
00:27:03,281 --> 00:27:05,401
Speaker 1: his evidence would have been crucial.

587
00:27:05,921 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 4: Yep, and he didn't show up for his summons.

588
00:27:09,201 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 3: The coroner had delayed the findings of the inquest by

589
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,561
Speaker 3: about a month because she'd actually issued a nationwide warrant

590
00:27:14,561 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 3: out for Allen's rest in order to force him to

591
00:27:16,961 --> 00:27:19,921
Speaker 3: appear well. He was never arrested, so he never appeared,

592
00:27:20,441 --> 00:27:22,321
Speaker 3: so she had to make a ruling without him.

593
00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:27,561
Speaker 1: So the coroner ruled that your mum sadly is deceased

594
00:27:27,961 --> 00:27:30,281
Speaker 1: and that she likely died on or around the twenty

595
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,961
Speaker 1: ninth of December two thousand and five in the area

596
00:27:33,001 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: of North Queensland Tablelands. The coroner said that miss O'Shea

597
00:27:37,481 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 1: didn't deliberately leave her children, whom she doted. There was

598
00:27:41,441 --> 00:27:45,521
Speaker 1: no reason she would leave them indefinitely. It took nine

599
00:27:45,561 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: years for an inquest to happen in the case of

600
00:27:49,441 --> 00:27:52,481
Speaker 1: your mum's disappearance. How did you and your family cope

601
00:27:52,561 --> 00:27:55,281
Speaker 1: over those nine years leading up to the inquest?

602
00:27:56,441 --> 00:27:59,481
Speaker 4: It fracture us, It really did. It drove us all.

603
00:28:01,241 --> 00:28:03,401
Speaker 3: Very much apart, and most of my siblings don't talk

604
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,041
Speaker 3: to each other now. Allen, sort of around the time

605
00:28:07,041 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 3: of mum disappearance, you mentioned my uncle John McKenzie. You know,

606
00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:12,681
Speaker 3: he sort of god in my head that maybe he's

607
00:28:12,681 --> 00:28:14,761
Speaker 3: something his actions were maybe the one that got was

608
00:28:14,801 --> 00:28:17,721
Speaker 3: responsible for going missing. So then I was angry at him,

609
00:28:17,801 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 3: and I spent so many years angry at him, you know,

610
00:28:21,521 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 3: remended defenses about six years ago or something, and you know,

611
00:28:25,921 --> 00:28:29,801
Speaker 3: I felt incredibly bad about, you know, sort of blaming

612
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:30,721
Speaker 3: him for all these years.

613
00:28:30,721 --> 00:28:34,761
Speaker 4: And he actually died this year bil Ducks cancer, so

614
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 4: I never really got to I guess that's brought up

615
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:38,401
Speaker 4: a lot of guilt and stuff like that.

616
00:28:38,641 --> 00:28:41,561
Speaker 1: And did he say that to you because he paid

617
00:28:41,601 --> 00:28:43,361
Speaker 1: for her flights to go up to Queensland? Is that

618
00:28:43,401 --> 00:28:44,361
Speaker 1: where that came from.

619
00:28:44,521 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was lots of framers of drug activity and

620
00:28:47,201 --> 00:28:49,881
Speaker 3: all that sort of thing. And I mean he mentioned,

621
00:28:49,921 --> 00:28:51,361
Speaker 3: you know, I was a bad full of money and

622
00:28:51,521 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 3: or hills or whatever, and he said that was all

623
00:28:54,161 --> 00:28:57,561
Speaker 3: John McKenzie's doing. And the Russian mafia were involved. Now

624
00:28:57,601 --> 00:29:00,961
Speaker 3: with John McKenzie's friends, and when you're nineteen years old

625
00:29:01,041 --> 00:29:03,761
Speaker 3: and you have no idea what's going on, and you

626
00:29:03,841 --> 00:29:06,761
Speaker 3: can't quite comprehend what just happened to your life.

627
00:29:07,401 --> 00:29:10,001
Speaker 4: You start sort of, oh, maybe I don't know.

628
00:29:10,121 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 3: My brain just glitched out, and so I sort of

629
00:29:12,441 --> 00:29:14,961
Speaker 3: I started to believe Alan saying Mum said this, and

630
00:29:15,041 --> 00:29:16,721
Speaker 3: Mum said this in Russian mafia stuff.

631
00:29:16,721 --> 00:29:18,881
Speaker 4: So I blamed John McKenzie for a lot of years.

632
00:29:19,361 --> 00:29:21,921
Speaker 3: Now I just have this overwhelming feel of guilt and

633
00:29:22,081 --> 00:29:25,881
Speaker 3: remorse because I blamed someone who was also grieving at

634
00:29:25,881 --> 00:29:28,241
Speaker 3: the same time. He lost his family, Like he lost

635
00:29:28,241 --> 00:29:30,881
Speaker 3: everyone turned against him and he had to grieve by himself.

636
00:29:31,521 --> 00:29:35,201
Speaker 3: It's driven a huge wage in my family, and honestly,

637
00:29:35,441 --> 00:29:38,201
Speaker 3: I don't know if we'll ever be able to get

638
00:29:38,241 --> 00:29:38,761
Speaker 3: back together.

639
00:29:38,801 --> 00:29:42,081
Speaker 4: It's just it might just be too hard of a time.

640
00:29:42,841 --> 00:29:45,601
Speaker 1: I think what happens too is when you have a

641
00:29:45,641 --> 00:29:50,641
Speaker 1: missing person, you don't have the answers, and therefore you

642
00:29:50,681 --> 00:29:54,401
Speaker 1: can't have a funeral, You can't have some sort of

643
00:29:54,521 --> 00:29:57,121
Speaker 1: resolution in your head as to what's happened. You can't

644
00:29:57,161 --> 00:29:59,321
Speaker 1: sort of put it all together because it's just all

645
00:29:59,321 --> 00:30:03,801
Speaker 1: swimming around in our heads. We're grasping at straws trying

646
00:30:03,841 --> 00:30:07,041
Speaker 1: to think of what has happened here, and we're grappling

647
00:30:07,121 --> 00:30:10,121
Speaker 1: with that concept of the not knowing, which comes down

648
00:30:10,121 --> 00:30:13,161
Speaker 1: to the ambiguous loss comments about being in this space.

649
00:30:13,281 --> 00:30:16,841
Speaker 1: But it does cause tension, and it does cause question

650
00:30:17,001 --> 00:30:20,241
Speaker 1: and people start to come up with their own theories

651
00:30:20,281 --> 00:30:25,121
Speaker 1: and ideas and their thought processes, and it's really damaging.

652
00:30:25,161 --> 00:30:27,361
Speaker 1: And I think that's a part of living in the

653
00:30:27,361 --> 00:30:31,281
Speaker 1: missing world that people on the outside who don't experience

654
00:30:31,321 --> 00:30:35,841
Speaker 1: it don't really understand, and even families within, you know,

655
00:30:36,001 --> 00:30:39,641
Speaker 1: it's literally splintered our entire family as well, going through

656
00:30:39,641 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: what we're doing. And I don't talk to any of

657
00:30:42,721 --> 00:30:44,681
Speaker 1: my cousins like they you know. I used to have

658
00:30:44,721 --> 00:30:46,761
Speaker 1: all my girl cousins would come over with their kids

659
00:30:46,761 --> 00:30:49,921
Speaker 1: and we'd celebrate Christmas in July. You know, that's all

660
00:30:49,961 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: gone by the wayside now. And it really breaks my

661
00:30:52,321 --> 00:30:56,041
Speaker 1: heart because there's enough trauma and tragedy with a missing

662
00:30:56,081 --> 00:31:01,841
Speaker 1: person to amplify more trauma and upset by families just

663
00:31:02,321 --> 00:31:05,921
Speaker 1: completely being torn apart by the tragedy having a missing person.

664
00:31:06,481 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 4: Well, I don't talk to Mum's side of the family

665
00:31:08,481 --> 00:31:08,841
Speaker 4: at all.

666
00:31:09,161 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 3: I guess we all grieve differently and everything like that,

667
00:31:12,241 --> 00:31:15,321
Speaker 3: But I some people internalize it, and then I think

668
00:31:15,361 --> 00:31:17,361
Speaker 3: maybe I'm just a little bit too loud because I'm

669
00:31:17,401 --> 00:31:19,081
Speaker 3: trying to get to the bottom of it and trying

670
00:31:19,081 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 3: to finances, and I keep talking about it, you know.

671
00:31:22,321 --> 00:31:23,721
Speaker 4: And then I've had some.

672
00:31:23,641 --> 00:31:26,121
Speaker 3: Family members that accused me of trying to profit from

673
00:31:26,161 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 3: mum's deaths and stuff like that.

674
00:31:27,281 --> 00:31:30,001
Speaker 4: I'm like, I haven't touched what money are you talking about.

675
00:31:32,281 --> 00:31:33,881
Speaker 1: I did want to bring up the fact that you

676
00:31:33,961 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: were only nineteen when your mum went missing. Who was

677
00:31:38,481 --> 00:31:41,201
Speaker 1: there to support you? Like, who looked after you?

678
00:31:42,041 --> 00:31:44,041
Speaker 4: My Dad's always been my mom and my dad.

679
00:31:44,041 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 3: They didn't have a very amicable split, will say, But

680
00:31:48,041 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 3: as soon as I said mum's missing, Dad was just

681
00:31:50,041 --> 00:31:52,761
Speaker 3: there like he was. He was a big support and

682
00:31:52,801 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 3: he always has been. Noise will be. But to be honest,

683
00:31:56,081 --> 00:31:58,121
Speaker 3: I didn't really think about me. I just wanted to

684
00:31:58,121 --> 00:32:00,961
Speaker 3: make sure everyone else was okay, because you know my eyes.

685
00:32:01,001 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 3: I was like, well, Alice's just had the baby, so

686
00:32:02,561 --> 00:32:05,361
Speaker 3: you know, we can't interfere with that, and I need

687
00:32:05,361 --> 00:32:07,321
Speaker 3: to bembridge. They're all young, so I don't want that

688
00:32:07,401 --> 00:32:07,801
Speaker 3: burden to.

689
00:32:07,801 --> 00:32:08,321
Speaker 4: Fall on them.

690
00:32:08,361 --> 00:32:12,121
Speaker 3: So it just fell on me and I spent more

691
00:32:12,161 --> 00:32:14,441
Speaker 3: time trying to look after everyone else and make sure

692
00:32:14,481 --> 00:32:17,761
Speaker 3: they were okay, and then I guess taking care of myself.

693
00:32:18,041 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 4: Although one thing.

694
00:32:18,841 --> 00:32:22,361
Speaker 3: I will always recommend I did go to counseling. It

695
00:32:22,401 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 3: took me into some really dark places initially, and there

696
00:32:25,521 --> 00:32:27,561
Speaker 3: are a few times when I remember coming home from

697
00:32:27,601 --> 00:32:29,641
Speaker 3: trade school and just thinking I could step in front

698
00:32:29,681 --> 00:32:31,881
Speaker 3: of this train very easily and I could just stop

699
00:32:32,601 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 3: because it just became too much. And the one thing

700
00:32:35,321 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 3: that stopped me is I kept seeing my siblings and

701
00:32:37,281 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 3: my dad and I was like, I can't do that

702
00:32:39,001 --> 00:32:42,161
Speaker 3: to them. So I just thought, I think I need

703
00:32:42,161 --> 00:32:45,081
Speaker 3: to go and see someone. So I actually signed up

704
00:32:45,081 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 3: for the Salvation Army counseling program that they have, the

705
00:32:47,761 --> 00:32:53,361
Speaker 3: free counseling, and I started going counseling. And that was

706
00:32:53,401 --> 00:32:56,001
Speaker 3: my one sort of self maintenance or self help thing

707
00:32:56,041 --> 00:32:59,361
Speaker 3: that I did do and that I recommend for everyone

708
00:32:59,401 --> 00:33:02,681
Speaker 3: to do, not just in missing persons, but just with everything,

709
00:33:02,921 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 3: because that's kind of what got me through a lot

710
00:33:04,721 --> 00:33:07,281
Speaker 3: of it, because it was just I'm sure with you, you

711
00:33:07,281 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 3: spend so much time sort of shouldering everything else on

712
00:33:10,521 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 3: your shoulders, and you don't really once you're in that

713
00:33:13,001 --> 00:33:14,641
Speaker 3: motive I just have to keep going. You don't really

714
00:33:14,681 --> 00:33:17,361
Speaker 3: think I need to take care of myself. And it

715
00:33:17,521 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 3: was that one hour where she could go how are you?

716
00:33:19,481 --> 00:33:22,841
Speaker 3: And I could just unload. But that took me a

717
00:33:22,881 --> 00:33:25,721
Speaker 3: good year and a half two years to even start

718
00:33:25,761 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 3: to realize, oh, I need to talk to someone.

719
00:33:28,641 --> 00:33:31,681
Speaker 1: Thank goodness you did. What would you say, just listening

720
00:33:31,681 --> 00:33:36,041
Speaker 1: to you and you having that inner strength, which that's

721
00:33:36,041 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: what it is, Lily like that takes core strength for

722
00:33:38,801 --> 00:33:41,281
Speaker 1: you to recognize that you need help and for you

723
00:33:41,361 --> 00:33:43,561
Speaker 1: to reach out. But don't you think it would be

724
00:33:43,641 --> 00:33:47,521
Speaker 1: great if there was people or some sort of organization

725
00:33:47,841 --> 00:33:51,481
Speaker 1: in this missing space that could actually have that as

726
00:33:51,521 --> 00:33:55,401
Speaker 1: a set structure for people who are living in this space.

727
00:33:56,241 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 3: I think it would be gag game changer because there

728
00:33:58,441 --> 00:34:01,121
Speaker 3: are so many people. I know that with myself, it's

729
00:34:01,161 --> 00:34:04,521
Speaker 3: so isolating because you have a different kind of grief.

730
00:34:04,601 --> 00:34:07,601
Speaker 3: No one can relate to your grief. And I'm if

731
00:34:07,601 --> 00:34:09,321
Speaker 3: I hear one more person say.

732
00:34:09,121 --> 00:34:10,921
Speaker 4: But your mum wouldn't want you to feel like this,

733
00:34:11,041 --> 00:34:11,601
Speaker 4: I will.

734
00:34:11,401 --> 00:34:14,961
Speaker 3: Strangle someone because at the end of the day, not

735
00:34:15,001 --> 00:34:17,281
Speaker 3: a lot of people can relate to what we're going through.

736
00:34:17,321 --> 00:34:21,641
Speaker 3: It is such a lonely kind of grief that I

737
00:34:21,721 --> 00:34:24,401
Speaker 3: do think that, you know, the powers that be should

738
00:34:24,401 --> 00:34:26,201
Speaker 3: actually come up with some sort of framework where they

739
00:34:26,201 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 3: can offer families support, even if it's you know, group

740
00:34:29,521 --> 00:34:31,481
Speaker 3: counseling or something like that. Like I know that New

741
00:34:31,521 --> 00:34:33,841
Speaker 3: South Wales does family and friends of missing persons, but

742
00:34:33,881 --> 00:34:34,321
Speaker 3: I don't know.

743
00:34:34,481 --> 00:34:36,281
Speaker 1: And it shouldn't just be with New South Wales, right,

744
00:34:36,321 --> 00:34:36,921
Speaker 1: it should be.

745
00:34:36,881 --> 00:34:39,761
Speaker 4: Across Australia, which could be a federal thing.

746
00:34:40,081 --> 00:34:44,241
Speaker 1: Yeah, we need an umbrella to capture all of this

747
00:34:44,761 --> 00:34:47,401
Speaker 1: under the same entity, and the same umbrella to help

748
00:34:47,961 --> 00:34:51,561
Speaker 1: families with missing people all over Australia, and it shouldn't

749
00:34:51,561 --> 00:34:55,201
Speaker 1: be a state by state situation. I quite often think

750
00:34:55,201 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: about this. You know, over fifty thousand people last year

751
00:34:58,481 --> 00:35:01,241
Speaker 1: were reported missing in Australia, and you think about the

752
00:35:01,281 --> 00:35:04,441
Speaker 1: resources and the cost involved in all of that and

753
00:35:04,441 --> 00:35:06,601
Speaker 1: searching for them these people. Yet we get told that

754
00:35:06,641 --> 00:35:10,361
Speaker 1: we don't have enough money, there's not enough resources to

755
00:35:10,441 --> 00:35:13,001
Speaker 1: look into missing persons cases, and they'll they'll give it

756
00:35:13,041 --> 00:35:15,681
Speaker 1: their best shot. You're lucky if you get ten days

757
00:35:15,721 --> 00:35:18,201
Speaker 1: to two weeks worth of searching, then that's it. You

758
00:35:18,281 --> 00:35:20,081
Speaker 1: sort of left on your own and it falls in

759
00:35:20,121 --> 00:35:23,441
Speaker 1: the family's lap, and it usually falls on that usually

760
00:35:23,481 --> 00:35:26,641
Speaker 1: one person in the families. It's more more so one

761
00:35:26,801 --> 00:35:28,321
Speaker 1: or maybe a couple.

762
00:35:28,041 --> 00:35:29,681
Speaker 4: Of the family, maybe eldest daughter.

763
00:35:29,881 --> 00:35:31,841
Speaker 3: There's usually the females of the family that said, I've

764
00:35:31,881 --> 00:35:32,601
Speaker 3: got I guess all right?

765
00:35:32,721 --> 00:35:34,561
Speaker 4: Is anyone gonna all right? I guess I'm all right?

766
00:35:35,521 --> 00:35:38,601
Speaker 1: So tell me how Danny and Bridget these days?

767
00:35:39,841 --> 00:35:41,001
Speaker 4: They're good. They're trucking on.

768
00:35:41,081 --> 00:35:44,361
Speaker 3: Danny got married, Danny's had a little boy and he's

769
00:35:44,401 --> 00:35:46,441
Speaker 3: doing really well. Bridge is doing really well. She's got

770
00:35:46,481 --> 00:35:49,241
Speaker 3: a dog, she loves a dog. She's working, she's doing

771
00:35:49,281 --> 00:35:49,681
Speaker 3: all right.

772
00:35:50,321 --> 00:35:52,921
Speaker 1: And what about Tim? Tim your other brother, And he

773
00:35:53,161 --> 00:35:55,441
Speaker 1: was at the time a mom went missing. He was

774
00:35:55,481 --> 00:35:59,481
Speaker 1: actually living with Alan too, wasn't he up in Queensland?

775
00:36:00,481 --> 00:36:02,801
Speaker 3: Reason being is Tim was getting into a little bit

776
00:36:02,841 --> 00:36:05,201
Speaker 3: of trouble, waghing school and stuff like that.

777
00:36:05,281 --> 00:36:06,721
Speaker 4: So Mum was like, well what do we do? He's

778
00:36:06,761 --> 00:36:07,601
Speaker 4: not going to school.

779
00:36:07,681 --> 00:36:11,441
Speaker 3: So Mum and I were talking, and you know, Allan said, well,

780
00:36:11,441 --> 00:36:12,921
Speaker 3: why doesn't he come live up here and we can

781
00:36:12,961 --> 00:36:15,361
Speaker 3: homeschool him, you know, living off the land. We decided

782
00:36:15,361 --> 00:36:17,081
Speaker 3: as a family that was going to be the best

783
00:36:17,081 --> 00:36:22,841
Speaker 3: thing for Tim. And unfortunately, after Mum disappeared, he's gotten

784
00:36:22,881 --> 00:36:23,601
Speaker 3: into more trouble.

785
00:36:23,961 --> 00:36:25,841
Speaker 4: He's very close with Alan, and.

786
00:36:27,281 --> 00:36:29,361
Speaker 3: You know, because of that, I can't really have a

787
00:36:29,401 --> 00:36:32,721
Speaker 3: relationship with him, because I just I don't have a

788
00:36:32,721 --> 00:36:34,841
Speaker 3: relationship with Alan and I can't be near him.

789
00:36:35,481 --> 00:36:40,001
Speaker 1: So your mum was looking forward to attending her nephew's

790
00:36:40,001 --> 00:36:42,361
Speaker 1: wedding in Victoria on the twenty first of January. You

791
00:36:42,441 --> 00:36:46,561
Speaker 1: mentioned that before, another mark in her timeline of what

792
00:36:47,361 --> 00:36:51,441
Speaker 1: your mum had planned but she didn't attend. And birthdays,

793
00:36:51,441 --> 00:36:55,801
Speaker 1: in Christmases and weddings all special, happy occasions that are

794
00:36:56,281 --> 00:36:59,121
Speaker 1: somewhat tainted by our missing loved one not being there.

795
00:37:00,081 --> 00:37:03,121
Speaker 1: Your mom's sixty fourth birthday is approaching in December, and

796
00:37:03,161 --> 00:37:07,321
Speaker 1: this December also marks your mum missing for twenty years. Lily,

797
00:37:07,601 --> 00:37:10,361
Speaker 1: how do you cope with those important milestones?

798
00:37:11,681 --> 00:37:12,201
Speaker 4: Every year?

799
00:37:12,481 --> 00:37:15,761
Speaker 3: I bake Mama cake on her birthday, and I also

800
00:37:15,841 --> 00:37:18,641
Speaker 3: have a bottle of the Creeper Stout, her favorite drink.

801
00:37:18,641 --> 00:37:20,761
Speaker 3: I have a bottle of that that I've had for

802
00:37:21,001 --> 00:37:24,401
Speaker 3: thirteen years. And I always give her a birthday card too.

803
00:37:24,441 --> 00:37:27,401
Speaker 3: And I know that sounds really silly because she's not here,

804
00:37:27,521 --> 00:37:30,521
Speaker 3: but it's just my one little way of just marking

805
00:37:30,521 --> 00:37:34,921
Speaker 3: the occasion. Because I can tell you this, since she's disappeared,

806
00:37:35,001 --> 00:37:37,321
Speaker 3: not one of us, like not one of us children

807
00:37:37,401 --> 00:37:41,201
Speaker 3: have actually really ever celebrated their birthday in a big way. Again,

808
00:37:43,201 --> 00:37:46,561
Speaker 3: it just becomes another day. My biggest fear is that

809
00:37:46,561 --> 00:37:51,721
Speaker 3: she's going to be forgotten. And like I was trying

810
00:37:51,721 --> 00:37:53,761
Speaker 3: to do the little cake in the birthday card and stuff,

811
00:37:54,201 --> 00:37:56,201
Speaker 3: which is just my one little way of saying that

812
00:37:56,441 --> 00:38:00,081
Speaker 3: even though I haven't found her yet, I haven't forgotten

813
00:38:00,121 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 3: her either.

814
00:38:02,561 --> 00:38:05,361
Speaker 1: So on the twenty fifth of March last year, the

815
00:38:05,401 --> 00:38:08,841
Speaker 1: police announced a five hundred thousand dollars award for information

816
00:38:09,001 --> 00:38:12,801
Speaker 1: into the disappearance of Kathleen O'Shea. Are you in regular

817
00:38:12,801 --> 00:38:16,881
Speaker 1: contact with Queensland Police and what area of command is

818
00:38:16,921 --> 00:38:18,561
Speaker 1: responsible for your mum's case now?

819
00:38:20,001 --> 00:38:22,401
Speaker 3: So I am in regular contact with the POLICEA I

820
00:38:22,481 --> 00:38:24,561
Speaker 3: speak with I think it's the head of the CIB

821
00:38:24,681 --> 00:38:27,641
Speaker 3: in Mariba. I try and actually make sure that I

822
00:38:27,681 --> 00:38:30,481
Speaker 3: call them at least twice a month because I figure

823
00:38:31,641 --> 00:38:34,601
Speaker 3: it just keeps mums. They won't forget her, but I

824
00:38:34,601 --> 00:38:37,601
Speaker 3: figure they won't. They'll you know, it's keeping your finger

825
00:38:37,641 --> 00:38:40,601
Speaker 3: on the pulse, but yeah, so we're in fairly regular contact.

826
00:38:40,841 --> 00:38:43,201
Speaker 3: Because it's a small station. I've managed to keep the

827
00:38:43,201 --> 00:38:45,841
Speaker 3: same sort of detectives on the case that have been.

828
00:38:45,681 --> 00:38:49,521
Speaker 4: On the case for eighteen years, I think, yeah so.

829
00:38:49,721 --> 00:38:53,281
Speaker 3: I mean, I've heard some horror stories about missing persons

830
00:38:53,321 --> 00:38:55,761
Speaker 3: investigations and stuff where it just keeps changing hands and

831
00:38:55,761 --> 00:38:58,681
Speaker 3: stuff like that, and I have been really lucky where

832
00:38:58,681 --> 00:39:00,481
Speaker 3: I have had the same area by the same people.

833
00:39:00,921 --> 00:39:03,241
Speaker 1: That makes such a difference, though, Lily, like you know,

834
00:39:03,361 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: you have to repeat yourself on Hunt times to tell

835
00:39:06,041 --> 00:39:08,321
Speaker 1: the same story over and over again to the new

836
00:39:08,321 --> 00:39:11,641
Speaker 1: guy who's taking over. I did want to say to

837
00:39:11,681 --> 00:39:17,041
Speaker 1: you my personal experience and understanding is that police usually

838
00:39:17,121 --> 00:39:19,161
Speaker 1: only push for a reward when they feel it can

839
00:39:19,161 --> 00:39:20,081
Speaker 1: benefit the case.

840
00:39:21,001 --> 00:39:21,561
Speaker 4: Have any new.

841
00:39:21,561 --> 00:39:24,121
Speaker 1: Leads come forward that you are aware of since the

842
00:39:24,201 --> 00:39:25,561
Speaker 1: reward was announced last year?

843
00:39:26,401 --> 00:39:26,721
Speaker 4: Nope?

844
00:39:27,721 --> 00:39:30,241
Speaker 1: Have they told you why they were putting a reward

845
00:39:30,561 --> 00:39:31,201
Speaker 1: for information?

846
00:39:32,721 --> 00:39:36,121
Speaker 3: To my knowledge, it was basically they've only they've pushed

847
00:39:36,121 --> 00:39:38,481
Speaker 3: the case as far as it can go, and this

848
00:39:38,561 --> 00:39:42,001
Speaker 3: is the last push. I don't active homicide or anything

849
00:39:42,001 --> 00:39:43,641
Speaker 3: of that, but I think it's just there was one

850
00:39:43,641 --> 00:39:46,521
Speaker 3: of the final pushes they could do before it just

851
00:39:46,881 --> 00:39:48,761
Speaker 3: gathers dust on a shelf or something like that.

852
00:39:49,841 --> 00:39:52,561
Speaker 1: How sad. And so for those who are following along

853
00:39:53,281 --> 00:39:56,601
Speaker 1: if you're not familiar with this, there are actually two

854
00:39:56,641 --> 00:39:59,641
Speaker 1: parts to homicide. There is an active team and there's

855
00:39:59,681 --> 00:40:03,361
Speaker 1: an inactive team, so meaning that if they've got someone

856
00:40:03,641 --> 00:40:07,161
Speaker 1: of interest or they've got information that they can, you know,

857
00:40:07,241 --> 00:40:10,281
Speaker 1: go and investigate. That's where it sits, in the active

858
00:40:10,361 --> 00:40:13,801
Speaker 1: side of things. And as you say, you know, it's

859
00:40:13,841 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: heartbreaking for us. We don't want our files to sit

860
00:40:17,161 --> 00:40:20,681
Speaker 1: on a shelf collecting dust because quite often that's where

861
00:40:21,121 --> 00:40:24,601
Speaker 1: a lot of these long term missing cases sit because

862
00:40:24,841 --> 00:40:28,241
Speaker 1: the information has gone by the wayside. And that's also

863
00:40:28,321 --> 00:40:31,801
Speaker 1: another reason that drives me in this space to keep

864
00:40:31,881 --> 00:40:34,801
Speaker 1: bringing people onto the Missing Matter podcasts and telling their

865
00:40:34,881 --> 00:40:39,041
Speaker 1: stories because they can't be forgotten. And sometimes people get

866
00:40:39,041 --> 00:40:42,681
Speaker 1: busy and life goes on, right, we all keep going

867
00:40:42,801 --> 00:40:45,841
Speaker 1: forward in life, but for a lot of us, our

868
00:40:45,841 --> 00:40:49,121
Speaker 1: missing person is still there in the forefront of what

869
00:40:49,161 --> 00:40:51,081
Speaker 1: we need to do and what we need to action.

870
00:40:51,281 --> 00:40:53,681
Speaker 1: And I feel like being able to give people a

871
00:40:53,761 --> 00:40:57,241
Speaker 1: voice to come on and tell their story and talk about,

872
00:40:57,401 --> 00:40:59,921
Speaker 1: you know, things that are personal and some things that

873
00:40:59,961 --> 00:41:02,801
Speaker 1: are very hard to talk about in an open space.

874
00:41:03,081 --> 00:41:06,321
Speaker 1: I think you know it's good for us moving forward.

875
00:41:06,361 --> 00:41:08,041
Speaker 1: I don't know how you feel about that, but that's

876
00:41:08,121 --> 00:41:09,401
Speaker 1: what I'm hoping for anyway.

877
00:41:09,521 --> 00:41:12,801
Speaker 3: In this way, I completely agree, because I think people

878
00:41:12,841 --> 00:41:14,841
Speaker 3: tend to sort of they see the missing person and

879
00:41:14,881 --> 00:41:16,721
Speaker 3: they go, oh, Okay, that person they don't like.

880
00:41:16,881 --> 00:41:17,561
Speaker 4: I know with Mum.

881
00:41:17,601 --> 00:41:20,081
Speaker 3: Whenever there's a slight media thing, I've had people that

882
00:41:20,121 --> 00:41:22,801
Speaker 3: have gone, oh, I thought that was solved. I was like, no,

883
00:41:22,881 --> 00:41:26,201
Speaker 3: we're just it's nearly twenty years old. It's not solved

884
00:41:26,201 --> 00:41:29,161
Speaker 3: just because it's not in the public sphere. Because we

885
00:41:29,241 --> 00:41:31,921
Speaker 3: have such a twenty four hour news cycle that things

886
00:41:32,081 --> 00:41:33,561
Speaker 3: tend to go through quite fast.

887
00:41:34,641 --> 00:41:37,401
Speaker 1: But you know, there's this inner drive that I see

888
00:41:37,401 --> 00:41:39,521
Speaker 1: in you as well, that we need to make sure

889
00:41:39,561 --> 00:41:42,481
Speaker 1: that our mum's names are not forgotten and to know

890
00:41:42,521 --> 00:41:44,641
Speaker 1: that we're still doing the best we can to find

891
00:41:44,681 --> 00:41:47,641
Speaker 1: the answers. Because I always say someone knows something.

892
00:41:47,881 --> 00:41:49,081
Speaker 4: I always sort of liken it too.

893
00:41:49,121 --> 00:41:52,161
Speaker 3: I have to keep putting my deepest, darkest wounds out

894
00:41:52,521 --> 00:41:54,841
Speaker 3: in the public sphere for everyone to see, just so

895
00:41:54,921 --> 00:41:57,281
Speaker 3: I can maybe get through to someone that has that answer.

896
00:41:58,241 --> 00:42:00,561
Speaker 3: I have to keep showing everyone how my deepest wound

897
00:42:00,601 --> 00:42:03,361
Speaker 3: in order to get some answers for mum, because how

898
00:42:03,361 --> 00:42:04,321
Speaker 3: else is it going to get done?

899
00:42:06,041 --> 00:42:10,121
Speaker 1: So I heard you mentioned in another interview that you

900
00:42:10,161 --> 00:42:13,001
Speaker 1: had started studying criminology with the hope that you would

901
00:42:13,041 --> 00:42:15,721
Speaker 1: one day work in the missing person's unit at the AFP.

902
00:42:16,321 --> 00:42:17,241
Speaker 1: Is that still your goal?

903
00:42:17,721 --> 00:42:18,361
Speaker 4: It is? It is.

904
00:42:18,401 --> 00:42:20,241
Speaker 3: I've taken a little bit of a break from study

905
00:42:20,241 --> 00:42:21,841
Speaker 3: at the moment, just because we've had to move and

906
00:42:21,921 --> 00:42:24,281
Speaker 3: with my uncle passing away and stuff, it kind of

907
00:42:24,361 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 3: hit me quite hard this year. You know, his death

908
00:42:27,561 --> 00:42:32,681
Speaker 3: really did flaw me. But that's my aim or maybe politics.

909
00:42:32,721 --> 00:42:35,761
Speaker 3: I'm sort of thinking roughly around that because I think

910
00:42:35,761 --> 00:42:37,281
Speaker 3: there needs to be more women in power. And I

911
00:42:37,321 --> 00:42:39,601
Speaker 3: also think that my thing is I've always wanted to

912
00:42:39,641 --> 00:42:42,961
Speaker 3: make a positive impact from instead of sort of being

913
00:42:42,961 --> 00:42:45,041
Speaker 3: annoyed with what's going on on the outside, I'd rather

914
00:42:45,041 --> 00:42:47,081
Speaker 3: make a change from the inside. There's a part of

915
00:42:47,161 --> 00:42:49,001
Speaker 3: him I'm like, what bigger change can I make? Then

916
00:42:49,121 --> 00:42:50,841
Speaker 3: go on to politics? But I think I may have

917
00:42:50,921 --> 00:42:54,041
Speaker 3: a little bit too much of a hot headedness to

918
00:42:54,161 --> 00:42:55,001
Speaker 3: me and that may.

919
00:42:54,921 --> 00:42:55,841
Speaker 4: Not work well.

920
00:42:55,881 --> 00:42:58,801
Speaker 1: Can you share with us what keeps driving you to

921
00:42:58,881 --> 00:43:00,881
Speaker 1: keep pushing for the truth as to what's happened to your.

922
00:43:00,841 --> 00:43:05,201
Speaker 3: Mum, because no one has the right to take another life.

923
00:43:05,641 --> 00:43:06,601
Speaker 4: No one has that right.

924
00:43:06,681 --> 00:43:12,161
Speaker 3: And my mum never heard a fly, Like she would

925
00:43:12,241 --> 00:43:14,361
Speaker 3: give you the shirt off her back if you needed it,

926
00:43:14,441 --> 00:43:18,441
Speaker 3: Like she was just the kindest person. And yeah she

927
00:43:18,481 --> 00:43:21,161
Speaker 3: was a complicated character, but like she she was just

928
00:43:21,881 --> 00:43:24,681
Speaker 3: kind and she she wouldn't hurt anyone. So the fact

929
00:43:24,721 --> 00:43:27,241
Speaker 3: that someone's hurt her and just thrown her away like

930
00:43:27,361 --> 00:43:31,721
Speaker 3: she's nothing, it fills me with this drive of ads,

931
00:43:31,921 --> 00:43:36,201
Speaker 3: like I want to say, fury mixed with sorrow, and

932
00:43:36,441 --> 00:43:39,161
Speaker 3: I just I have to do this for her because

933
00:43:40,361 --> 00:43:44,041
Speaker 3: her biggest fear was being forgotten and inconsequential. And you know,

934
00:43:44,761 --> 00:43:47,121
Speaker 3: she you know, would sometimes feel like she wasn't worth

935
00:43:47,161 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 3: anything and that she was nothing and blah blah blah.

936
00:43:49,041 --> 00:43:52,121
Speaker 4: And I need, I need.

937
00:43:52,001 --> 00:43:54,881
Speaker 3: To find those answers for her because she was everything

938
00:43:55,761 --> 00:43:59,601
Speaker 3: and justice needs to be served for her because she

939
00:43:59,721 --> 00:44:00,641
Speaker 3: would do the same for me.

940
00:44:02,521 --> 00:44:05,321
Speaker 1: Well, I can say from where I sit, you are

941
00:44:05,401 --> 00:44:08,161
Speaker 1: very brave and I think you're doing a great job.

942
00:44:08,441 --> 00:44:11,281
Speaker 1: Thank you, and I know your mama would be very

943
00:44:11,281 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: proud of you. Thank you for taking time to share

944
00:44:14,041 --> 00:44:16,961
Speaker 1: with us your journey to find your mum. I always

945
00:44:17,001 --> 00:44:21,241
Speaker 1: like to finish these episodes with you telling us why

946
00:44:21,321 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: Katie matters.

947
00:44:23,841 --> 00:44:27,161
Speaker 4: Because she was a human being and she had five children.

948
00:44:27,281 --> 00:44:30,881
Speaker 3: She now has two grandchildren that she's never gotten to meet.

949
00:44:31,321 --> 00:44:37,601
Speaker 3: And her death, god disappearance, now death, it's fractured and

950
00:44:37,681 --> 00:44:40,761
Speaker 3: until like it's split all of us, like it's you know,

951
00:44:40,801 --> 00:44:41,641
Speaker 3: we were always.

952
00:44:41,441 --> 00:44:43,521
Speaker 4: Close as a family, and it's just driven straight.

953
00:44:43,681 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 3: It's just crashed everything, and we need answers because every

954
00:44:50,601 --> 00:44:52,441
Speaker 3: day kind of sucks, and it's knowing that, oh, it's

955
00:44:52,481 --> 00:44:55,801
Speaker 3: another day of not knowing what happened to Mom. It's

956
00:44:55,801 --> 00:44:59,321
Speaker 3: another day of not knowing or not having the answers

957
00:44:59,321 --> 00:45:02,561
Speaker 3: to who took her from us. And you know, it's

958
00:45:02,561 --> 00:45:06,041
Speaker 3: also another day that you know, I, you know, since

959
00:45:06,041 --> 00:45:08,081
Speaker 3: my brother's had his baby. When he first had his baby,

960
00:45:08,121 --> 00:45:10,081
Speaker 3: I started crying because and I just got sewing because

961
00:45:10,081 --> 00:45:12,561
Speaker 3: I thought Mom needs to be here for this. Danny

962
00:45:12,601 --> 00:45:15,201
Speaker 3: should have his mum there for the birth of his child.

963
00:45:16,721 --> 00:45:19,241
Speaker 3: It's also probably Commandy of the birthing room. You know,

964
00:45:19,361 --> 00:45:22,561
Speaker 3: she would have been so thrilled and you know, to

965
00:45:22,561 --> 00:45:27,201
Speaker 3: see Bridgie growing up and these big milestones that she

966
00:45:27,761 --> 00:45:31,881
Speaker 3: missed out on, and that we don't really celebrate anyway,

967
00:45:32,081 --> 00:45:35,841
Speaker 3: because was the point. Katie man as big as Padi

968
00:45:35,921 --> 00:45:42,881
Speaker 3: as a human being, and she was a good mum.

969
00:45:43,281 --> 00:45:47,721
Speaker 2: Next week, on the missing matter, we stepped back into

970
00:45:47,721 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 2: one of Australia's most haunting mysteries. It's nineteen seventy three,

971
00:45:52,681 --> 00:45:54,921
Speaker 2: a sunny afternoon at Adelaide Oval.

972
00:45:55,641 --> 00:45:59,601
Speaker 5: Susie's sister, Joanne Ratcliffe, was eleven when she and Kirsty

973
00:45:59,681 --> 00:46:03,201
Speaker 5: Gordon disappeared from Adelaide Oval. In nineteen seventy three.

974
00:46:03,881 --> 00:46:09,201
Speaker 2: Two little girls, Joanne Ratcliffe eleven and Kirsty Gordon, just four,

975
00:46:10,041 --> 00:46:15,281
Speaker 2: vanish in plain sight. Their families never see them again.

976
00:46:16,281 --> 00:46:19,241
Speaker 3: I always say to myself, don't ever build your hopes up,

977
00:46:19,361 --> 00:46:23,481
Speaker 3: because they've been dashed so many times in the past.

978
00:46:24,721 --> 00:46:28,081
Speaker 2: For more than fifty years, the case has tormented South Australia,

979
00:46:28,921 --> 00:46:32,841
Speaker 2: leaving behind a trail of unanswered questions and whispered rumors

980
00:46:32,881 --> 00:46:34,521
Speaker 2: that have refused to fade.

981
00:46:35,001 --> 00:46:38,921
Speaker 6: Detectives did their own search back in twenty fourteen, but

982
00:46:39,441 --> 00:46:42,921
Speaker 6: found no trace of eleven year old joe Anne Ratcliffe

983
00:46:42,921 --> 00:46:44,921
Speaker 6: for four year old at Kirsty Gordon.

984
00:46:46,161 --> 00:46:49,841
Speaker 2: In the next episode. Journalist Brian Littley has spent years

985
00:46:49,841 --> 00:46:55,201
Speaker 2: piecing together what really happened on that day, uncovering police files,

986
00:46:55,641 --> 00:47:00,281
Speaker 2: interviewing witnesses, and chasing new leads that could finally expose

987
00:47:00,401 --> 00:47:00,881
Speaker 2: the truth.

988
00:47:01,321 --> 00:47:05,601
Speaker 6: Private investigators say there is another location of interest several

989
00:47:05,681 --> 00:47:08,281
Speaker 6: kilometers away that hasn't been looked at before.

990
00:47:08,961 --> 00:47:11,681
Speaker 5: They believe there are still people out there that know

991
00:47:11,841 --> 00:47:14,921
Speaker 5: what happened here that day, and they're pleading with them

992
00:47:14,961 --> 00:47:15,761
Speaker 5: to come forward.

993
00:47:18,281 --> 00:47:20,281
Speaker 2: That's next time on the Missing Matter.