1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,300 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:06,570 --> 00:00:10,309 Sean Aylmer: With New South Wales, Victoria, and the ACT all reopening this month, 3 00:00:10,660 --> 00:00:13,590 Sean Aylmer: we can expect a pretty sharp increase in consumer spending 4 00:00:13,590 --> 00:00:16,210 Sean Aylmer: as people get out and about once more. The Commonwealth 5 00:00:16,210 --> 00:00:21,070 Sean Aylmer: Bank has estimated households could have accumulated AU$230 billion in 6 00:00:21,070 --> 00:00:23,590 Sean Aylmer: savings by the end of the year. The pressure is 7 00:00:23,590 --> 00:00:27,130 Sean Aylmer: now on companies to convince consumers to spend with them. 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,010 Sean Aylmer: Ben Willee is the General Manager and Media Director of 9 00:00:30,010 --> 00:00:32,680 Sean Aylmer: Spinach advertising agency. Ben, welcome back to Fear and Greed. 10 00:00:33,570 --> 00:00:35,110 Ben Willee: Good day Sean, great to be here. 11 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,770 Sean Aylmer: You've been doing a State of the Nation's study of 12 00:00:37,770 --> 00:00:40,710 Sean Aylmer: the advertising industry. How would you describe the state of 13 00:00:40,770 --> 00:00:41,770 Sean Aylmer: the industry at the moment? 14 00:00:42,470 --> 00:00:45,820 Ben Willee: Well, the advertising industry is very, very healthy. In fact, 15 00:00:45,820 --> 00:00:48,990 Ben Willee: I think someone said recently it's running like the Hoover 16 00:00:48,990 --> 00:00:54,630 Ben Willee: Dam spillway. We're seeing enormous increases in advertising spend. I mean, 17 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,720 Ben Willee: the most recent data from Standard Media Index for the 18 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,340 Ben Willee: month of August was the sixth month in a row 19 00:01:01,340 --> 00:01:05,490 Ben Willee: we had year-on-year growth, 26% higher than the same month 20 00:01:05,490 --> 00:01:09,100 Ben Willee: last year, and above 2018 levels. 21 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:09,479 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 22 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,680 Ben Willee: So the advertising market is really red hot at the moment. 23 00:01:12,690 --> 00:01:16,650 Ben Willee: And we see that as a perfect storm of low unemployment, 24 00:01:16,900 --> 00:01:23,270 Ben Willee: high household savings, high consumer confidence, and this new philosophy 25 00:01:23,270 --> 00:01:26,429 Ben Willee: that we're hearing a lot about, which is revenge-spending. People 26 00:01:26,430 --> 00:01:29,759 Ben Willee: in Australia's two biggest cities who have been desperate to 27 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,569 Ben Willee: get out there and spend their hard-earned. And advertisers have 28 00:01:33,569 --> 00:01:36,459 Ben Willee: been taking advantage of that trend and trying to get 29 00:01:36,459 --> 00:01:39,270 Ben Willee: ahead of the curve and build their brands prior to 30 00:01:39,270 --> 00:01:42,020 Ben Willee: people getting out there and spending like drunken sailors. 31 00:01:42,569 --> 00:01:45,810 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So where abouts is the spending, we'll get onto 32 00:01:45,810 --> 00:01:48,350 Sean Aylmer: revenge-spending in a moment, where is the spending happening? Is 33 00:01:48,350 --> 00:01:52,370 Sean Aylmer: it television, or print, or radio, or outdoor, digital, podcasts perhaps, Ben? 34 00:01:52,730 --> 00:01:56,460 Ben Willee: Yeah, look, significant increases in podcasts. Unfortunately they don't break 35 00:01:56,460 --> 00:01:59,500 Ben Willee: that out, but we do know that the radio market, 36 00:01:59,500 --> 00:02:02,890 Ben Willee: which controls a lot of that money, saw a 20% 37 00:02:02,890 --> 00:02:06,460 Ben Willee: increase in the period Jan to August 2021 compared to the 38 00:02:06,470 --> 00:02:13,210 Ben Willee: previous year. So all mediums are up, television, digital, outdoor, radio. 39 00:02:13,580 --> 00:02:15,970 Ben Willee: I mean, the only mediums that are perhaps struggling are 40 00:02:16,139 --> 00:02:21,720 Ben Willee: printed newspapers, that excludes their online advertising, and magazines, two 41 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,870 Ben Willee: sectors that have been challenged for quite some time. But overall, 42 00:02:25,870 --> 00:02:29,250 Ben Willee: for the period Jan to August, the reported ad market 43 00:02:29,250 --> 00:02:32,020 Ben Willee: for SMI is up 27.8%,- 44 00:02:32,230 --> 00:02:32,231 Sean Aylmer: Wow. 45 00:02:32,231 --> 00:02:35,250 Ben Willee: ... which is very, very healthy and far better than 46 00:02:35,250 --> 00:02:38,410 Ben Willee: the number we had at the depth of May 2020 47 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,040 Ben Willee: when it was down 41% and we weren't sure how 48 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,340 Ben Willee: long we were going to keep our jobs for. So 49 00:02:44,340 --> 00:02:47,320 Ben Willee: everyone in our industry, very happy at the moment. Now, 50 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,350 Ben Willee: all we want is to get some staff to help 51 00:02:49,350 --> 00:02:50,650 Ben Willee: us deliver on our promises. 52 00:02:51,330 --> 00:02:53,929 Sean Aylmer: You're not alone on that one. Is television the one 53 00:02:53,930 --> 00:02:55,040 Sean Aylmer: that's bounced hardest? 54 00:02:55,490 --> 00:02:59,630 Ben Willee: No, look, the digital sector has bounced the hardest at 35.9%, 55 00:02:59,669 --> 00:03:05,020 Ben Willee: but television has been extraordinary at 27.5% growth for Jan 56 00:03:05,020 --> 00:03:09,299 Ben Willee: to August. And the month of August is above its 57 00:03:09,300 --> 00:03:13,299 Ben Willee: level of 2018. So we haven't seen growth like that 58 00:03:13,460 --> 00:03:15,900 Ben Willee: in the TV market for a very long time. In fact, 59 00:03:16,130 --> 00:03:20,020 Ben Willee: the month of August was over AU$300 million. So a 60 00:03:20,020 --> 00:03:22,669 Ben Willee: lot of advertisers are using the power of sight, sound 61 00:03:22,669 --> 00:03:25,570 Ben Willee: and movement, and the power of a bunch of lockdown 62 00:03:25,570 --> 00:03:28,590 Ben Willee: people who are consuming more television than they have in 63 00:03:28,590 --> 00:03:32,660 Ben Willee: a long time and using that power to build their 64 00:03:32,660 --> 00:03:34,570 Ben Willee: brands and to sell their products. 65 00:03:34,940 --> 00:03:39,600 Sean Aylmer: So when streaming comes into this, there's advertising on streaming, 66 00:03:40,100 --> 00:03:41,990 Sean Aylmer: but how is that data collected? 67 00:03:42,330 --> 00:03:46,530 Ben Willee: Yeah, look, it's not separated in SMI. It's collected by the IAB, 68 00:03:46,580 --> 00:03:50,530 Ben Willee: the Internet Advertising Bureau, and they're saying in their most 69 00:03:50,530 --> 00:03:53,900 Ben Willee: recent data to the end of this last financial year, 70 00:03:53,900 --> 00:03:59,070 Ben Willee: a 39% increase in spend in video placements, which covers 71 00:03:59,130 --> 00:04:03,270 Ben Willee: what we would call BVOD or Broadcast Video On Demand, 72 00:04:03,270 --> 00:04:07,440 Ben Willee: which is really catch-up and streaming TV. And that market 73 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,360 Ben Willee: is just really, really hot at the moment. And it's 74 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,650 Ben Willee: been driven obviously by lockdown and people's desire to control 75 00:04:14,650 --> 00:04:18,279 Ben Willee: what programs they watch, when, but also the Olympics. I 76 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,640 Ben Willee: mean the Olympics was a hugely streamed event in a 77 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:26,279 Ben Willee: way we've never seen before. And advertisers love Broadcast Video 78 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,650 Ben Willee: On Demand and catch-up TV because it enables us to 79 00:04:29,650 --> 00:04:34,330 Ben Willee: overlay data and have some addressability. So we can start 80 00:04:34,330 --> 00:04:38,190 Ben Willee: to include or exclude some of our best customers in 81 00:04:38,190 --> 00:04:42,470 Ben Willee: those campaigns to make sure we reach the right people, 82 00:04:42,750 --> 00:04:45,610 Ben Willee: and we start to be more efficient with our delivery 83 00:04:45,610 --> 00:04:46,270 Ben Willee: of audience. 84 00:04:47,390 --> 00:04:50,980 Sean Aylmer: Where is most advertising coming from? Retail traditionally is number 85 00:04:50,980 --> 00:04:52,159 Sean Aylmer: one. Is that still the case? 86 00:04:52,779 --> 00:04:55,589 Ben Willee: That's a very good question. Yeah, retail is still the 87 00:04:55,589 --> 00:05:00,100 Ben Willee: largest category for Jan to August, closely followed by automotive 88 00:05:00,100 --> 00:05:03,539 Ben Willee: brand. Now automotive brand has come off a little bit 89 00:05:03,540 --> 00:05:06,070 Ben Willee: because it seems to be pretty hard to buy a 90 00:05:06,070 --> 00:05:06,990 Ben Willee: car at the moment,- 91 00:05:07,010 --> 00:05:07,181 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, true! 92 00:05:07,181 --> 00:05:10,940 Ben Willee: ... shortage of component parts, long waits to get them 93 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,500 Ben Willee: on ships. So we're seeing that spend come off because 94 00:05:14,500 --> 00:05:18,330 Ben Willee: manufacturers don't have to advertise their products because they're having 95 00:05:18,330 --> 00:05:21,040 Ben Willee: trouble getting them into the country. One thing we did 96 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,630 Ben Willee: see in the money of August was a huge spend by governments, 97 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,990 Ben Willee: and for the month-on-month, growth was in the 90%. So governments 98 00:05:29,990 --> 00:05:33,120 Ben Willee: are really listening to the lot of the criticism they 99 00:05:33,220 --> 00:05:37,930 Ben Willee: have about communicating vaccines and changes, and upping their advertising 100 00:05:37,930 --> 00:05:40,470 Ben Willee: spend to get to more consumers. 101 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:42,800 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Ben, we'll be back in a minute. 102 00:05:47,870 --> 00:05:50,870 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Ben Willee, General Manager and Media Director of 103 00:05:50,870 --> 00:05:55,580 Sean Aylmer: Spinach advertising agency. Okay Ben, you talked about revenge-spending. What's that? 104 00:05:55,580 --> 00:05:57,490 Sean Aylmer: Is that about the pent- up demand? The fact that 105 00:05:57,490 --> 00:05:59,020 Sean Aylmer: I want to go out and spend all my money? 106 00:05:59,550 --> 00:06:02,469 Ben Willee: Absolutely. Sean, it's you and I who both want to 107 00:06:02,470 --> 00:06:04,310 Ben Willee: go out and spend their money. And for those of 108 00:06:04,310 --> 00:06:06,870 Ben Willee: us in the most locked down city in the world, 109 00:06:06,870 --> 00:06:11,440 Ben Willee: we're desperate to get back to sporting events, pubs, restaurants, 110 00:06:11,850 --> 00:06:15,339 Ben Willee: all sorts of stuff. So really, there's this huge, high 111 00:06:15,339 --> 00:06:19,849 Ben Willee: household savings rates that we haven't seen since the global financial crisis, 112 00:06:20,130 --> 00:06:22,510 Ben Willee: and people are pretty frustrated and they're very keen to 113 00:06:22,510 --> 00:06:26,039 Ben Willee: get out and spend their money. So yeah, we expect 114 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,910 Ben Willee: to see, as restrictions ease... I know they've eased in 115 00:06:28,910 --> 00:06:32,870 Ben Willee: New South Wales, but in Victoria, we expect those household 116 00:06:32,870 --> 00:06:35,560 Ben Willee: spending rates to absolutely skyrocket. 117 00:06:35,570 --> 00:06:40,850 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so we've got this boom in advertising spend and 118 00:06:40,850 --> 00:06:44,300 Sean Aylmer: it's kind of hitting all the sectors. What about the actual 119 00:06:44,300 --> 00:06:47,670 Sean Aylmer: content itself? So we know there's been an audience spike 120 00:06:47,670 --> 00:06:52,080 Sean Aylmer: for news ever since COVID hit. Do you think that 121 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,900 Sean Aylmer: over time, and this obviously will impact what advertisers do, 122 00:06:56,270 --> 00:06:59,589 Sean Aylmer: it will shift away from the news focus that we've 123 00:06:59,589 --> 00:07:01,220 Sean Aylmer: seen to other types of content? 124 00:07:01,540 --> 00:07:05,010 Ben Willee: Well, it's a very good question and nobody really knows, 125 00:07:05,010 --> 00:07:08,510 Ben Willee: but what we do know is that people are changing 126 00:07:08,510 --> 00:07:13,340 Ben Willee: their preferences for types of content. So, news stations on 127 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,990 Ben Willee: radio have done very well. Their surveys have done very 128 00:07:16,990 --> 00:07:19,480 Ben Willee: well when people are locked down because they want information, 129 00:07:19,780 --> 00:07:22,270 Ben Willee: and come off a little bit and we've moved to 130 00:07:22,270 --> 00:07:25,730 Ben Willee: more of a music format when we're out of restrictions. 131 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,710 Ben Willee: So what we do know, our research is very clear 132 00:07:28,710 --> 00:07:32,300 Ben Willee: about how consumers have changed when they're locked down. What 133 00:07:32,300 --> 00:07:34,910 Ben Willee: we don't know is how much of those habits are 134 00:07:34,910 --> 00:07:38,470 Ben Willee: going to stick with us post-lockdown, as we return to 135 00:07:38,470 --> 00:07:42,570 Ben Willee: some kind of new normal, whatever that looks like. And 136 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,530 Ben Willee: there's a number of really big changes that people report 137 00:07:46,530 --> 00:07:51,560 Ben Willee: in themselves. And it's things like a preference for local products. 138 00:07:51,910 --> 00:07:54,750 Ben Willee: People are really, really interested in their own health and 139 00:07:54,750 --> 00:07:58,200 Ben Willee: wellbeing when you have to be to stay sane. And especially 140 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,650 Ben Willee: if you live in Melbourne, they're more interested in sustainability, 141 00:08:02,170 --> 00:08:05,410 Ben Willee: regional living and really, what it comes down to if 142 00:08:05,410 --> 00:08:08,890 Ben Willee: you want to summarise it is this sort of reevaluation 143 00:08:08,890 --> 00:08:11,550 Ben Willee: of the simple things. For the first time in many years, 144 00:08:11,550 --> 00:08:14,070 Ben Willee: a lot of us have had a good opportunity to 145 00:08:14,070 --> 00:08:17,960 Ben Willee: think about the decisions we make. And we're taking a 146 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,140 Ben Willee: lot of time to reassess why we do things and 147 00:08:21,140 --> 00:08:25,440 Ben Willee: what's important to us, and that's having a big impact 148 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,940 Ben Willee: on our nature and a big impact on how we 149 00:08:27,940 --> 00:08:32,510 Ben Willee: spend and how we consume. And that affects how advertisers, 150 00:08:32,730 --> 00:08:36,540 Ben Willee: the kinds of products they create and the kind of products and services 151 00:08:36,540 --> 00:08:37,470 Ben Willee: they advertise. 152 00:08:37,790 --> 00:08:39,410 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, it's really interesting because if you think of your 153 00:08:39,410 --> 00:08:43,920 Sean Aylmer: own consumer behaviour during lockdowns... my preference is local and 154 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,360 Sean Aylmer: I will actually go out of my way to go 155 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,699 Sean Aylmer: to the local bottle shop rather than the large box retailer. 156 00:08:49,110 --> 00:08:51,470 Sean Aylmer: Value is another thing. I mean, where does value sit 157 00:08:51,470 --> 00:08:52,010 Sean Aylmer: into this? 158 00:08:52,650 --> 00:08:54,910 Ben Willee: Look, it's right up there. I mean, we call it 159 00:08:54,910 --> 00:08:58,969 Ben Willee: the search for value. People have time to be considerate 160 00:08:58,970 --> 00:09:01,550 Ben Willee: about the kinds of things they buy and they also 161 00:09:01,550 --> 00:09:05,640 Ben Willee: have time to research what they would consider value and 162 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:10,280 Ben Willee: what attributes make up the components of value. So yeah, 163 00:09:10,340 --> 00:09:13,650 Ben Willee: consumers are very much interested in that and they're very 164 00:09:13,650 --> 00:09:17,670 Ben Willee: much interested in reviews and what people think. So that 165 00:09:17,670 --> 00:09:20,770 Ben Willee: doesn't mean they're looking for cheap products. What it means 166 00:09:21,470 --> 00:09:26,600 Ben Willee: is they're looking to understand the relationship between cost and value. 167 00:09:27,130 --> 00:09:30,050 Ben Willee: What do I achieve if I spend a little bit more? 168 00:09:30,350 --> 00:09:32,760 Ben Willee: And fast fashion is a really good example of that. 169 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,720 Ben Willee: People are saying, "Well, why buy a new white shirt 170 00:09:36,540 --> 00:09:39,840 Ben Willee: every season when I can, for a cheaper price, buy 171 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:41,929 Ben Willee: a very good quality one that lasts me four or 172 00:09:41,929 --> 00:09:45,050 Ben Willee: five seasons and it's better for the environment and it's 173 00:09:45,050 --> 00:09:48,360 Ben Willee: better for my hip pocket?" So those sorts of analyses 174 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,210 Ben Willee: are really becoming forefront of our minds again. 175 00:09:51,630 --> 00:09:53,880 Sean Aylmer: You mentioned the environment, then I am a bit of 176 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,410 Sean Aylmer: a runner, Ben, slow runner but a runner nonetheless. And 177 00:09:56,410 --> 00:09:59,179 Sean Aylmer: I always use the same brand of shoes. It's Brooks shoes, 178 00:09:59,670 --> 00:10:02,300 Sean Aylmer: and I need a new pair. And I was in 179 00:10:02,300 --> 00:10:04,600 Sean Aylmer: the shops yesterday as I was allowed to be and 180 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,329 Sean Aylmer: I noticed that Brooks, the brand, was advertising a carbon-neutral 181 00:10:09,380 --> 00:10:13,360 Sean Aylmer: running shoe. And this whole idea of sustainability, certainly we're 182 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,170 Sean Aylmer: seeing it at the big end of town, but even 183 00:10:15,170 --> 00:10:19,330 Sean Aylmer: in the shops, the brands are advertising that they're carbon- neutral. 184 00:10:19,330 --> 00:10:21,840 Sean Aylmer: That seems to be playing a bigger role, the sustainability idea. 185 00:10:22,610 --> 00:10:26,070 Ben Willee: Look, absolutely. And it's a well written trend and I 186 00:10:26,070 --> 00:10:29,220 Ben Willee: think it's not a differentiator now like it once was, 187 00:10:29,290 --> 00:10:32,280 Ben Willee: it's what we would call a table stake, is consumers 188 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,500 Ben Willee: expect their brands to make a real effort for sustainability. 189 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,550 Ben Willee: And you mentioned you are a runner, I'm a runner myself, 190 00:10:39,550 --> 00:10:42,439 Ben Willee: or consider myself a plodder. But what a great time to listen 191 00:10:42,890 --> 00:10:48,109 Ben Willee: to the Fear and Greed podcast early in the morning when you get up and go for a run. 192 00:10:48,110 --> 00:10:51,189 Ben Willee: But I'll tell you what, you know that sustainability has 193 00:10:51,429 --> 00:10:56,210 Ben Willee: become mainstream when even the News Corp newspapers in Australia, 194 00:10:56,210 --> 00:11:00,520 Ben Willee: who have historically been very sceptical of climate science, are 195 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,620 Ben Willee: now really jumping on board that bandwagon. So even people 196 00:11:04,620 --> 00:11:08,770 Ben Willee: are expecting their newspapers and their media companies to play more 197 00:11:08,770 --> 00:11:10,390 Ben Willee: of a role in sustainability. 198 00:11:10,860 --> 00:11:13,060 Sean Aylmer: Incredible. Ben, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 199 00:11:13,290 --> 00:11:14,010 Ben Willee: No worries. 200 00:11:14,330 --> 00:11:16,969 Sean Aylmer: That was Ben Willee, General Manager and Media Director of 201 00:11:16,970 --> 00:11:20,160 Sean Aylmer: Spinach advertising agency. This is the Fear and Greed Daily 202 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,650 Sean Aylmer: Interview. Join me every morning for the full Fear and 203 00:11:22,650 --> 00:11:25,059 Sean Aylmer: Greed podcast with all the business news you need to 204 00:11:25,059 --> 00:11:27,360 Sean Aylmer: know. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day!