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Speaker 1: Good day.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the show. Did you hear Phil

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Speaker 2: Jamison's episode on Friday? Is it Bleating of Grinsperon? He

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Speaker 2: talked about going back on the road and the strategies

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Speaker 2: he employs to keep himself healthy when he's out doing

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Speaker 2: forty five days. And I certainly remember when I was touring,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, I did not have good strategies about how

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Speaker 2: to deal with stressful situations, certainly when I'm far away

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Speaker 2: from home. I'm much better at it these days. But

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Speaker 2: it did get me thinking about what has changed since

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Speaker 2: those days of being kind of reactive and self medicating

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Speaker 2: and things. I wanted to talk about that today, but

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Speaker 2: I'm just going to play some mats.

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Speaker 1: I'll be right back after the.

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Speaker 2: Breakdo Thanks so much for listening to the show. This

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Speaker 2: is better than yesterday, making it better every episode since

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Speaker 2: twenty thirteen. My name's Osha Ginsburg. I'm a podcaster and author.

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Speaker 2: I'm a dad, a stepdad, a husband, a award winning

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Speaker 2: documentary maker, someone who vacuumed a community hall after a

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Speaker 2: fifth birthday the other week. And I'm glad you're here.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for being a part of it. Thanks for all

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Speaker 2: the questions. It's lovely to get to your questions Mondays

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Speaker 2: is when we're doing them. If you get a newsletter,

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Speaker 2: which you'll find the link in the show notes, you'll

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Speaker 2: find a little Hey, we're doing a question of the money,

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Speaker 2: Have you got any and just look for the most

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Speaker 2: recent one hit comment and a poppy question there and

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Speaker 2: we'll get right to it now. If you've never read

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Speaker 2: the book Born Standing Up by Steve Martin, the incredible

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Speaker 2: comedian Steve Martin, the first host of stat There in

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Speaker 2: Our Life, Born Standing Up is simply one of the

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Speaker 2: greatest ever documentations of how repeated hard work and consistent

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Speaker 2: movement towards a goal can yield truly outstanding results. It's

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Speaker 2: extraordinary and one of my favorite Steve Martin films after.

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Speaker 1: The Three Amigos is The Man with.

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Speaker 2: Two Brains, where he plays Doctor Michael, which you spell

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Speaker 2: it's just the way you say it. Hf uhr h

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Speaker 2: you are are. Doctor Michael Hafar is a neurosurgeon with

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Speaker 2: a cruel and unfaithful new wife, played too like epic

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Speaker 2: fem fatale absurdity by the brilliant Kathleen Turner. And I

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Speaker 2: watched that film so many times I could recite.

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Speaker 1: Every line in the movie for quite a while. So

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Speaker 1: the Man with two Brains I've ever checked. That's quite good.

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Speaker 2: But it wasn't until the last few years, in fact,

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Speaker 2: that I realized I am a man with not just

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Speaker 2: two brains, I'm a man with three brains. In fact,

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Speaker 2: we all are. We all have three brains. Each of

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Speaker 2: us has three separate brains Insiders. Sometimes they work together,

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Speaker 2: sometimes they really don't. And you can find yourself in

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Speaker 2: situations where an impulsive or an emotional choice leaves you

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Speaker 2: with a less than desirable outcome. But the good news

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Speaker 2: is you can actually do something about it, which is

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Speaker 2: pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: The other week, I ran a workshop.

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Speaker 2: I was very honored to be asked to run a

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Speaker 2: workshop with some elite athletes. I won't say which team

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Speaker 2: it was, but it was an extraordinary honor to chat

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Speaker 2: with people who are at the top of their game

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Speaker 2: physically and athletically, to talk to them about headspace and

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Speaker 2: keeping their headspace in moments of high stress. And one

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Speaker 2: of the things I like to talk about when I

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Speaker 2: do workshops like that is I talk about how it

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Speaker 2: feels when we are reactive or impulsive. You know, we

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Speaker 2: end up doing something or saying something or feeling something

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Speaker 2: that is less than productive. Basically that this modern world

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Speaker 2: that we live in in twenty twenty four, when I'm

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Speaker 2: recording this, living in it is hard because we quite

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Speaker 2: simply weren't designed to live in this modern world. We

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Speaker 2: need a few upgrades, we really do. What do I

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Speaker 2: mean by this, Well, in twenty seventeen, there were some

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Speaker 2: fossils found in North Africa. They were dated at three

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Speaker 2: hundred thousand years old, and they are at this point

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Speaker 2: the oldest record of modern human and we existed before that.

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Speaker 2: It's the oldest one that we found is AE hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand years ago. Our brain and our body, the one

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Speaker 2: that's listening to this podcast right now, the one that's

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Speaker 2: making this podcast right now, we are almost identical to

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Speaker 2: these people. We're probably a little bit bigger because of

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Speaker 2: you know, we have a more abundance of calories, and

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Speaker 2: we've got any word X, so we're more of us.

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Speaker 1: We have chlorine, we have clean water.

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Speaker 2: But we're identical to these people, which is a completely

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Speaker 2: different time when I play it, a time before farming,

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Speaker 2: before water for purification, before slack. The world that we

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Speaker 2: evolved to live in no longer exists. All of us

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Speaker 2: are just trying to use this ancient bit of survival

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Speaker 2: focus technology sitting between areas to deal with the world

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Speaker 2: that would have been science fiction to even my grandmother.

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Speaker 2: But even then, the brains that we have are not

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Speaker 2: just one thing. A big part of me getting better

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Speaker 2: after I became unwell, and a part of me staying

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Speaker 2: better is understanding how the different bits of my brain work,

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Speaker 2: what their jobs are, how they interact. And I find

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Speaker 2: naming things to be really really important. It helps me

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Speaker 2: separate myself from it a bit allows me to take

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Speaker 2: action if I'm able. Because inside our heads there's three

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Speaker 2: distinct systems of our brain. Each of them evolved quite

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Speaker 2: separately and quite a time of part. They do completely

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Speaker 2: different things, and sometimes the older bits of our brain

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Speaker 2: take over and we find ourselves thinking, saying, sometimes doing

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Speaker 2: stuff which would have kept us alive. When we came

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Speaker 2: face to face with a quincana, which is an ancient

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Speaker 2: animal that existed at the same time as humans in Australia. Essentially,

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Speaker 2: it's a seven meter long land based crocodile.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 2: It existed until only ten thousand years ago. It existed

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Speaker 2: at the same time as people our brains and bodies

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Speaker 2: evolved to deal with shit like that. That or those

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Speaker 2: giant eagles in Africa, which was so big that could

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Speaker 2: literally pick up a child by the skull with their

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Speaker 2: talons and just fly off. Terrifying, right, terrifying. We are

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Speaker 2: only alive because you and me and everyone we know

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Speaker 2: are the descendants of the people who saw that big

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Speaker 2: shadow below us and when and just ran away, the

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Speaker 2: ones who went, oh, Bertie did not make it. We

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Speaker 2: are the descendants of the most scared, most reluctant, most

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Speaker 2: jumpy people that ever lived, because they survived. So what

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Speaker 2: are the bits, these three bits of their brain?

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Speaker 1: What are they? How do they work together? What happens

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Speaker 1: when they don't?

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Speaker 2: And how might we do few software upgrades if we can,

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Speaker 2: or some running fixes. So firstly, these three different systems

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Speaker 2: are stacked on top of each other. They've got different

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Speaker 2: sets of priorities that they've been around for vastly different

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Speaker 2: lengths of time. There's three of them, ones called the

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Speaker 2: basil ganglia or the lizard brain, the reptilian brain some

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Speaker 2: people call it the limbic system, and then there's the

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Speaker 2: near cortex. They're kind of like, I don't know flatmates

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Speaker 2: that didn't really choose to live together, but they have

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Speaker 2: to share a fridge. They can work together, yes, but

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Speaker 2: when they clash at leads to outcomes that can take

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Speaker 2: more than a house meeting to move past. So the

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Speaker 2: lizard brain, the basil gangliare part. That's the oldest bit

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Speaker 2: of our brain. It's all about survival. It's the fight

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Speaker 2: or flight part. Hundreds of millions of years of evolution

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Speaker 2: went into creating this thing. It kept us alive in

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Speaker 2: a world where danger was absolutely everywhere. Our lizard brain,

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Speaker 2: our basil ganglia. It's quick, it's decisive, it doesn't waste

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Speaker 2: time on any nuance whatsoever. It's reactive, it's binary. Its

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Speaker 2: job is to react, often without thinking, to react to threats,

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Speaker 2: whether they're real or whether they're imagined. But only slightly

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Speaker 2: more recently we developed our limbic system. That's the emotional

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Speaker 2: part of our brain. It was two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: million years ago. Is where our emotional stuff comes from.

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Speaker 2: That evolved to help the early hominy hominins. I always

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Speaker 2: get the wrong hominins, which are very distant ancestors. The

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Speaker 2: Olympic system allowed them to have social interaction and navigate

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Speaker 2: the social complexities of living in larger groups. Our emotions

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Speaker 2: come from this system, the love and the fear, the joy,

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Speaker 2: the sadness, and it makes sure that we form strong

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Speaker 2: bonds protect the young people around us, to maintain social ties.

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Speaker 2: It's where we get empathy, where we get our anger,

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Speaker 2: where we feel pleasure, we feel pain. Now, our distant

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Speaker 2: ancestors lived like this for over two hundred million years

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Speaker 2: before the next bit showed up, which is the neocortex.

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Speaker 2: That's the more modern part of our brain, about two

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Speaker 2: or three million years ago. That's the bit that helps

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Speaker 2: us plan, or reason or think abstractly. This is where

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Speaker 2: we get language, where we get culture, where we invent tools,

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Speaker 2: we create art, we solve complicated problems. It's because we

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Speaker 2: have a neocortex that allowed humans to build civilization. This

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Speaker 2: is the thing that separates us from every other creature

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Speaker 2: on earth. But the trick here is that these three

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Speaker 2: brains don't always get along, and why should they. They

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Speaker 2: have completely different reasons to be there. They have good,

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Speaker 2: different powers. They evolved at different times under different circumstances

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Speaker 2: for different purposes, so sometimes they can pull us in

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Speaker 2: very different directions, leading to things that.

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Speaker 1: Can make our life quite challenging.

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Speaker 2: For example, let's say you're driving home it's been a

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Speaker 2: long day, and it's two lanes, is like a suburban

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Speaker 2: main road, and there's a car park from the left

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Speaker 2: lane right up near the lights. Everyone's already moved over

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Speaker 2: in the right lane where you are, and you come

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Speaker 2: up and there's like three cars between you and the lights,

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Speaker 2: and there's one of the left lane there and some

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Speaker 2: true genius races down the inside and then shoves their

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Speaker 2: nose of their car between you and the car in front.

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Speaker 2: Sticks are indicatter out. When the light goes green, you're

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Speaker 2: like here right mane you let them get They didn't

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Speaker 2: even wait, and then they fuck off and you get

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Speaker 2: the orange light and then you're ready again. Now, I

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Speaker 2: don't know about you, but it was me, like my

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Speaker 2: reptilian brain, my lizard brain just reacts instantly, body floods

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Speaker 2: with adrenaline. It's preparing us to either fight or run away.

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Speaker 2: But it's a survival mechanism because our brain is perceiving

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Speaker 2: a threat instantaneously and reacts, you know, accordingly. Now, while

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Speaker 2: it did happen, while this person didn't carve the inside

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Speaker 2: and then cut in it isn't. But we're not actually

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Speaker 2: in danger because we're not moving at all. And then

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Speaker 2: you didn't even move and the person drove in front

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Speaker 2: of your two kilometers an hour. So what happens then

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Speaker 2: is the modern praine that neocre takes the front part

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Speaker 2: kicks in, and that's the bit that realizes that, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I come, I just say, getting angry you won't fix anything.

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Speaker 2: It might make everything a whole lot worse. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: that person is very good at something else. It's not this,

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Speaker 2: but I'm sure they're good at something else. Going to breathe,

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to get ready to deal with whatever's

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Speaker 2: going to happen when the slut turns green, because I

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Speaker 2: have to stay alert. What about a situation where you're

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Speaker 2: you know, you're having a disagreement with your partner, someone

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Speaker 2: you love, ride me, your kid. It's very different when

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Speaker 2: you're arguing or having a disagreement with someone like that

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Speaker 2: versus someone in a car or at work or whatever.

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Speaker 2: It's very emotional. So the limbic system kicks in. So

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Speaker 2: you get hurt, you get angry, you might get defensive,

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Speaker 2: like get all three of those things. These are a

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Speaker 2: very powerful emotion they can easily take over, and before

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Speaker 2: you know it, you're saying things that in twenty minutes

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Speaker 2: from now, you'll be going, why.

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Speaker 1: The fuck did I say that? You might even do things,

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Speaker 1: and in twenty minutes from now and I'll be like,

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Speaker 1: why the fuck did I do that?

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Speaker 2: Now, if you're lucky, when you're having these disagreements with

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Speaker 2: the person you love, your neocortex, you're more modern brain.

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Speaker 2: We'll try to jump in there and go, hey, hey,

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Speaker 2: take us back, breathe, take a break. Think about this logically,

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Speaker 2: you know, just because when the Olympic system kicks in,

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Speaker 2: there's this instantaneous kind of kicking in things. It floods

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Speaker 2: your body with stress hormones. It's really difficult to think

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Speaker 2: or act clearly or rationally. But ther neo cortex the

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Speaker 2: more than modern video brain. No staying calm, communicating, it's

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Speaker 2: probably the best thing to do here. But the emotions

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Speaker 2: that your Olympic system pumps out are really really hard

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Speaker 2: to override. They're very powerful, so it can be almost

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Speaker 2: impossible to do that. There's just a couple of examples,

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Speaker 2: but you know, the patterns the same. The lizard brain

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Speaker 2: and the Olympic system are kind of when they get going,

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Speaker 2: they're kind of more powerful sometimes than the near cortex.

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Speaker 2: They often have completely different agendas. The lizard brain wants

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Speaker 2: to keep you safe, the olympic system wants to protect

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Speaker 2: you and your emotional wellbeing, and the near cortex wants

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Speaker 2: you to kind of navigate the complexities of life in

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Speaker 2: the best way possible. So when these three systems work together,

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Speaker 2: you can respond to situations in a really balanced way.

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Speaker 2: But when they're in conflict, that's when you can act impossibly.

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Speaker 2: You can make choices you may later regret, you can

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Speaker 2: feel overwhelmed by emotions. One of the most common conflicts

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Speaker 2: between impulse control and rational thought would be around food.

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Speaker 1: All right, really hard, real hard.

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Speaker 2: Let's say you shar up to work and someone's coming

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Speaker 2: from the airport and they have growed a couple of

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Speaker 2: dozen donuts.

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Speaker 1: On the way in. Hey, everybody, here's a treat, and.

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Speaker 2: Then there's forty eight donuts sitting in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the office. Your reptilian brain, really the primitive brain, goes, aha,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of energy right there. I could need

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Speaker 2: that to survive. I wil definitely eat one, which actually

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Speaker 2: was leading about four let's go, but then the Olympic system,

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Speaker 2: your emotional system, gets on and goes, oh, you know

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Speaker 2: what feels really good. It's been a tough morning on

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Speaker 2: the way and got cut off on the way to work.

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Speaker 2: At donut would make it so much better. They're so delicious,

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Speaker 2: and I'd feel so much better for the donut. But

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Speaker 2: then the near cortex is nowhere near as powerful as

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Speaker 2: both of those things. Sometimes, and before you know it,

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Speaker 2: you know, you near your cortex and you want to say, hey, hey,

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Speaker 2: remember that suit you tried to put on the other day.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't even fit properly. All right, you're going to

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Speaker 2: see your cardiologists. They're they're not joking around. You know,

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Speaker 2: we've got long term goals here. We've got health.

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Speaker 1: We've got to lineup. We've got a weight loss, we've

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Speaker 1: got to line up. We've got to think about what

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Speaker 1: we're putting in our body. But then the cortex can't

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Speaker 1: cannot compete sometimes.

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Speaker 2: So the fuck it's kicking, And before you know it,

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Speaker 2: you've neckt four donuts and now you feel disgusting, if

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Speaker 2: you feel guilty, you feel frustrate because you haven't been

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Speaker 2: able to stop yourself. And these kinds of things that

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Speaker 2: have going on inside is they're a normal part of

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Speaker 2: being a human being, right, And it makes sense considering

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Speaker 2: the world that we evolved in calories with few and

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Speaker 2: far between and really dense source of calories like a doughnut.

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Speaker 1: Get it on that, but often at least to undesirable

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Speaker 1: outcomes in.

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Speaker 2: Our modern world if we can't learn how to control

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Speaker 2: these things, certainly in the context of the life that

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Speaker 2: we live now. And the good news is that there's

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Speaker 2: plenty of strategies that we can use to make these

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Speaker 2: three brains kind of work together a bit more effectively.

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Speaker 1: And a fourth would be to make sure that there's

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Speaker 1: money in the bank. So I'm going to play some mats,

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Speaker 1: be right back.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening talking about what's going

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Speaker 3: on with these three brains inside our head, the basal ganglia,

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Speaker 3: the olympic system, and the neocortex, the kind of primitive,

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Speaker 3: semi primitive, and kind of modern brains.

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Speaker 1: Understanding what they do is the first steps.

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Speaker 2: Understanding what each bit of your brain does is the

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Speaker 2: first step, in fact, a long way to going to

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Speaker 2: understand what kind of conflicts might be going on inside you.

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Speaker 2: One of the most effective strategies and I've talked about

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Speaker 2: it before, mindfulness or just noticing, just notice, I'm noticing,

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Speaker 2: just notice what paying attention to your thoughts, your feelings,

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Speaker 2: would your body feel like? What's going on in your body?

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Speaker 2: What are you thinking about? Are you blaming something that

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Speaker 2: you're taking responsibly for something you shouldn't take responsibily for.

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Speaker 2: Are you're feeling an emotion that you might be subsuming

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Speaker 2: from somebody else. Pay attention, and then we can kind

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Speaker 2: of be more aware of when either the lizard brain

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Speaker 2: or the limbic system is kind of taking over.

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Speaker 1: And it's just like I said, it's just noticing. I'm noticing.

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Speaker 1: I want donuts now, huh.

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Speaker 2: And then if you're being mindful, if you're just noticing,

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Speaker 2: it allows you to actually take just a breath and go,

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Speaker 2: hang on a second. That breathing will help that near

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Speaker 2: cortex catch up and go, oh yeah, sorry, guys, I

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Speaker 2: just got here. I remember, suit doesn't fit. We're not

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Speaker 2: having donuts right now. In fact, if we don't have

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Speaker 2: a donate, we'll actually feel better ourselves. And if we do,

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Speaker 2: despite what the olympic system is telling you how good

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Speaker 2: it'll be, it'll be better if we don't.

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Speaker 1: And that's often the case.

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Speaker 2: So as long as we can bring that more modern

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Speaker 2: brain online, a bit of breathing, feel your feet within

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Speaker 2: your socks, you know what does the air for you?

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Speaker 1: Lock on your hands, that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: Breathing is also really powerful here the lizard brain really

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Speaker 2: can easily trigger a fight or flight response. There's that

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Speaker 2: shallow rapid breathing and Fritz Pearl, sorry, there's a great

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Speaker 2: quote from a guy that you created gestalt therapy with

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Speaker 2: the kind of brain mind body psychology, and he's got

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Speaker 2: this great line, fear is excitement without the breath.

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Speaker 1: It's just so good.

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Speaker 2: So when you're breathing gets really quick, it's actually changing

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Speaker 2: the way it works. It changes you see two levels,

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Speaker 2: and it kind of feeds the anxiety. But if you

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Speaker 2: practice that deep, slow breathing, we get that parasympathetic nervous

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Speaker 2: system kicking in calm us down gives that near cortex

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Speaker 2: of modern brain a chance to kind of hey, hey, guys,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I just got here. Let's have a breath here,

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Speaker 2: let's kind of figure this out. And it's also good

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Speaker 2: important to be have a bit of self compassion, you know,

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Speaker 2: because when really strong emotions get us. When we're being

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Speaker 2: flooded with all kinds of hormones that make us want

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Speaker 2: to do and say stuff, we can get pretty hard

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Speaker 2: on ourselves, especially if we do things we will later regret,

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Speaker 2: but understand that we can actually reduce the intensity of

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Speaker 2: the emotional responses we have if we give ourselves a

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Speaker 2: bit of space to think a bit more clearly and

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Speaker 2: having a bit of self compassion, it can help us

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Speaker 2: really acknowledge the emotions that we're feeling without being overwhelmed

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Speaker 2: by them, just noticing, like, man, I'm noticing I'm feeling

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Speaker 2: really like this morning, for example, at jim I had

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Speaker 2: to do some My program called me to do barbell curls.

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Speaker 1: Now, fuck, I'm a guy at a gym doing barbell curls.

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Speaker 1: What a wank?

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Speaker 2: And I'll go I'll go to a new gym now,

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Speaker 2: so there's more people there, and I'm like, oh, my

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Speaker 2: fucking guy standing in the middle of the floor doing

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Speaker 2: barbell curls.

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Speaker 3: Blur.

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Speaker 2: But then I kind of walked around a bit and went,

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Speaker 2: what come on, I'm just noticing that I'm feeling really

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Speaker 2: self conscious. I'm feeling that I don't want to stand

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Speaker 2: in this room full of mirrors and do my barbier curls,

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Speaker 2: and then I just picked up a Bible and did it.

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Speaker 2: Guess how many people looked nobody? But I had to

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Speaker 2: do it right because I was able to notice. And

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Speaker 2: I also know that if I notice it, and if

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Speaker 2: I don't do the thing, then it'll be harder next time.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I just kind of noticed. I was feeling

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Speaker 2: really self conscious. Really, I go to a gym with

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Speaker 2: everyone's a very good looking lit all in their twenties,

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Speaker 2: and you know, muscling. I'm not, but it really helps.

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Speaker 2: It kind of goes, Oh, there's that self consciousness. That's interesting.

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Speaker 2: All right, I'll just lift this thing up and put

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Speaker 2: it back down again. But all these things are difficult

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Speaker 2: to do if you have to do them in a hurry,

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Speaker 2: but they're much easy to do if they are habitual.

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Speaker 2: If you habitually do some of these things, like doing

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Speaker 2: the breathing and noticing. If we habitually do these things

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Speaker 2: to support our neocortex, the more modern thinking, rational brain.

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Speaker 2: If we support that when we're making choices, then we

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Speaker 2: don't have to go and grab it when we need it.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of hopefully.

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Speaker 2: Already there, already pretty close so what does that look like?

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Speaker 2: What is supporting your rational brain look like? It looks

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Speaker 2: like regular exercise, a balanced diet, getting sleep, taking time

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Speaker 2: to relax, taking time to reflect, Like I did just

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Speaker 2: stand having a bit of a reflection on what was

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Speaker 2: that feeling on the gym floor today.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's what's feelings. Feeling a bit weird and a

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Speaker 1: bit self conscious. Ah.

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Speaker 2: So look, it's fair to say, you know, living with

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Speaker 2: three brains is not easy, not always easy, but it's

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Speaker 2: the reality of what we've got as being a human.

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Speaker 2: Understanding how our brains work together all in one and

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Speaker 2: knowing the strategies we can use to helpum cooperate can

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Speaker 2: help us feel confident about navigating what's going on in

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Speaker 2: life and probably making choices that might be a little

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Speaker 2: braver because we know a little more about how to

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Speaker 2: handle ourselves when we're in more tense situations, and so

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Speaker 2: we might be a little more brave at work or

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Speaker 2: in a relationship or as a parent. But being aware

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Speaker 2: of my reptilian brain as I am right now, my

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Speaker 2: reptilian brain is me I'm hungry, but my cortex knows

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Speaker 2: that it's now meal time, and so my olympic system

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Speaker 2: feels quite happy about that because all three are like,

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Speaker 2: I'm hungry. Yeah, you should be. It's time to eat. Ah,

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Speaker 2: that's nice.

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Speaker 1: There you go.

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Speaker 2: Good job, guys, good cooperating the one time you did

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Speaker 2: that today.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I hope that helped you. There you go.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to be an elite athlete to hear

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Speaker 1: the stuff. That's what I told the elite group of

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Speaker 1: athletes the other day. You know, I have to be

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Speaker 1: an elite athlete to learn to hear what I have

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Speaker 1: to say about that sort of stuff. So I hope

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Speaker 1: you hopefully found that valuable.

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Speaker 2: You've got any questions or whatever about this or anything else,

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Speaker 2: just comment below the newsletter that you can find the

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Speaker 2: link to in the show notes, and yeah, I'd love

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Speaker 2: to chat to you there. Thanks being a part of it.

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Speaker 2: The names of all the people that have we make

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Speaker 2: this show today, and AI is going to read the

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Speaker 2: credits for us. This episode was brought to you by

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Speaker 2: Andy Maher on audio post production, Beck Syed on video

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Speaker 2: post production, Toe Hyder on music.

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Speaker 3: Our producer is Breeze Steel and Osher's executive function assistant

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Speaker 3: is Monica Chapman.

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Speaker 2: For every episode ever to get on the mailing list,

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Speaker 2: or to get in touch, head to Osheginsburg dot com