WEBVTT - Part 2: 'Another wonderful secret': The letter Trump denies sending Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>This is the second episode in a two party to view.

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<v Speaker 1>The first part is called Part one. Had the Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>Conspiracy turned Maga against Trump? It's in your feed now, Nick,

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<v Speaker 1>If you go further back, it's well known that Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump and Jeffrey Epstein were friends. Can you just trace

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<v Speaker 1>their relationship for us?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it does go back quite a while. They just

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<v Speaker 2>both existed in the same social circles. They were in

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<v Speaker 2>this sort of wealthy Manhattan elite and then also in

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<v Speaker 2>this sort of wealthy Florida elite during the nineties and

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<v Speaker 2>early two thousands, and so they were just swimming in

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<v Speaker 2>the same pool and within that pool. It does seem

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<v Speaker 2>like that they were legitimately friends. And there was a

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<v Speaker 2>New York magazine profile of Epstein in the early two

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<v Speaker 2>thousands in which Trump specifically called Epstein a terrific guy.

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<v Speaker 3>He said, quote, I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy.

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<v Speaker 3>He's a lot of fun to be with, and has

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<v Speaker 3>even said that he likes beautiful women as much as

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<v Speaker 3>I do, and many of them are on the younger side,

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<v Speaker 3>No bad doubt about it.

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<v Speaker 2>They did have a falling out. It was reportedly over

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<v Speaker 2>this real estate deal that they both wanted to buy

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<v Speaker 2>a mansion in Florida, and then that fell apart, and

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<v Speaker 2>later on Trump said that he never liked him, was

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<v Speaker 2>never really friends with him, banned him from mar A Lago.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I knew him like everybody in Palm Beach knew him.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean people in Palm Beach knew him. He was

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<v Speaker 1>a fixture in Palm Beach. I had a falling out

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<v Speaker 1>with him a long time ago. I don't think I've

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<v Speaker 1>spoken to him for fifteen years. I wasn't a fan.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's a pretty documented long list of them having

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of social ties.

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<v Speaker 1>What are the chances that they're actually he's a least

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<v Speaker 1>at Trump's names owned that least.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, what makes a really good conspiracy is to

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<v Speaker 2>begin with a kernel of truth and then blow it up.

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<v Speaker 2>But you don't just have a kernel of truth here.

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<v Speaker 2>You have much more than that this happened. This was

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<v Speaker 2>a legitimate crime. It is a legitimate scandal, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>legitimate tragedy. What happened to victims? And there is just

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<v Speaker 2>more to know about this. Whether or not there is

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<v Speaker 2>a physical list somewhere, I think is at this point

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<v Speaker 2>relatively doubtful that there is just a perfect document in

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<v Speaker 2>a Manila envelope somewhere that you can pick out and

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<v Speaker 2>it will say exactly who everyone was and what they did,

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<v Speaker 2>and Trump's name will be on it. But I think

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<v Speaker 2>that there's enough open ended questions right now of who

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<v Speaker 2>was involved with Epstein, who was person in a position

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<v Speaker 2>of power, whether it's Trump, whether it's Bill Clinton, whatever

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<v Speaker 2>side of the political spectrum that you're on, there are

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<v Speaker 2>unanswered questions related to this. And regardless of if you're

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<v Speaker 2>a quneon conspiracy theorist, or if you're somebody who is

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<v Speaker 2>just interested in whether people in power are using it

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<v Speaker 2>in impropriety ways or who are involved into various activity,

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<v Speaker 2>that's something that I think kind of everybody can begin

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<v Speaker 2>to agree on, which is that we've never really gotten

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<v Speaker 2>the full story of this.

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<v Speaker 1>Nick. Of all the controversies Trump has withered, right, delegations

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<v Speaker 1>of civil finding against Team January Seeks being paged twice,

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<v Speaker 1>why is this issue cutting through with Trump's supporters.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that for a lot of those controversies

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<v Speaker 2>and scandals that you mentioned, things that Trump had always

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<v Speaker 2>denied from the get go, that his audience and his

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<v Speaker 2>followers were really primed to disbelieve from day one with this,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a little bit different. It's something that they have

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<v Speaker 2>always really really cared about since the Epstein scandal broke.

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<v Speaker 2>It's something that Republicans have harped on about relentlessly. It's

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<v Speaker 2>something that magaworld media figed have harped on about relentlessly.

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<v Speaker 2>And for followers of a more extreme conspiracy movement around QAnon,

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<v Speaker 2>it's really central to their worldview. And so one of

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<v Speaker 2>the things that people hate the most in politics of hypocrisy,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is very, very blatantly hypocritical in the way

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<v Speaker 2>that a lot of these figures were stoking this conspiracy

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<v Speaker 2>and are now telling the average person to not worry

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<v Speaker 2>about it and forget about it. In terms of what

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<v Speaker 2>this will do to Trump's standing, I think that it

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<v Speaker 2>will make him more associated with politicians the machine DC

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<v Speaker 2>and so if Trump becomes more associated with that and

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<v Speaker 2>less associated with his status as this outsider coming in

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<v Speaker 2>breaking up the lies and bureaucracy and the so called

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<v Speaker 2>swamp of Washington, people just might were not going to

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<v Speaker 2>believe in this guy as this sort of hero narrative

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<v Speaker 2>that has long been presented anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break, Rupert Murdoch arrives on the scene. Nick.

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<v Speaker 1>Late last week, the Wall Street Journal published a letter

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<v Speaker 1>they say he's from Trump to Epstein. Trump has now

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<v Speaker 1>threatened to sue the newspaper and Rupert Murdoch over it.

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<v Speaker 1>He also said he's directed his Attorney General, Pam Bondi

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<v Speaker 1>to release small files about Epstein to the public. So

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<v Speaker 1>what was in the letter that sit him off?

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<v Speaker 2>There was a birthday book of well wishes around two

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<v Speaker 2>thousand and three sent to Epstein, and Trump wrote in

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<v Speaker 2>this book and his message to Jeffrey Epstein for his

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<v Speaker 2>birthday quote.

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<v Speaker 4>This is from the Wall Street Journal. The letter bearing

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<v Speaker 4>Trump's name, which was reviewed why their journal, is body

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<v Speaker 4>like others in the album. It contains several lines of

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<v Speaker 4>typri and text, framed by the outline of a naked woman,

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<v Speaker 4>which appears to be hand drawn with a heavy marker.

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<v Speaker 4>A pair of small arcs denotes the woman's breasts, and

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<v Speaker 4>the future president's signature is a squiggly donald blow her waist,

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<v Speaker 4>mimicking pubic hair. The letter concludes, happy birthday and may

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<v Speaker 4>every day be another wonderful secret.

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<v Speaker 2>Trump has denied that message and says that it's fake,

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<v Speaker 2>but it appears well sourced, and it appears fairly damning

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of the collection of evidence that they have

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<v Speaker 2>this history together, and.

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<v Speaker 1>So the whole thing is moving quickly and is far

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<v Speaker 1>from over. How important is it for Trump right now

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<v Speaker 1>to ensure total loyalty from the paper around him?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean Trump really prizes loyalty. I think that's

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<v Speaker 2>one of the traits that he may value above all

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<v Speaker 2>else when it comes to people he works with. And

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<v Speaker 2>so so far people have been largely falling in line

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<v Speaker 2>within his administration, and he is going to say, look,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, now is the time to rally around me.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a moment in which we can't have anybody

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<v Speaker 2>be speaking out against the administration. So far, Pam Bondi

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<v Speaker 2>has been towing the line very well in that respect,

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<v Speaker 2>and Trump has praised her for it. Trump has said

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<v Speaker 2>she's doing an amazing job.

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<v Speaker 4>He's really done a very good job.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think that.

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<v Speaker 1>When you look at it, you'll understand that. I would

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<v Speaker 1>like to see that also, But I think the Attorney

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<v Speaker 1>general the credibility is very important, and you want credible.

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<v Speaker 4>Evidence or something like that, and I think the Attorney

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<v Speaker 4>General has handled it very well.

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<v Speaker 2>And so you know, as long as she continues to

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<v Speaker 2>be a sort of heat shield for him, she's a

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<v Speaker 2>pretty useful person for him to have around.

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<v Speaker 1>So his team looks like they're reminding loyal. But if

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<v Speaker 1>he's Spie Dessert seem out of these what impact will

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<v Speaker 1>that have when his political feature.

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<v Speaker 2>While Trump is in power, while he's not campaigning for

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<v Speaker 2>anything right now, he does need this base, He needs

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<v Speaker 2>his support. There is still a tendency of Trump to

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<v Speaker 2>really care about his popularity and really care about whether

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<v Speaker 2>people like him. And there's been you know, internal polling

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<v Speaker 2>from Democrats that show that this is resonating with voters

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<v Speaker 2>and that if not, you know, switching them to Democrat,

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<v Speaker 2>it just may not make them as willing to vote

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<v Speaker 2>Republican come midterms. It may make them shy away and

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<v Speaker 2>make them disenfranchised with Trump if they feel that this

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<v Speaker 2>is sort of a false promise that he made, or

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<v Speaker 2>that the belief that they had that he would release

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<v Speaker 2>the files and prove that he was the savior that

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<v Speaker 2>was promised never materializes. So I think that there's a

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<v Speaker 2>real risk. I think that things are so closely fought

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<v Speaker 2>in American politics right now that even losing a small

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<v Speaker 2>portion of your base is potentially devastating, just because the

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<v Speaker 2>margins are so thin on a lot of elections and

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of policy votes, and so yeah, it could

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<v Speaker 2>have a real impact, especially as he tries to push

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<v Speaker 2>policies through that he needs full support of Republican lawmakers for.

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<v Speaker 2>And if there are people who are on the hard right,

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<v Speaker 2>far right side of the party who are beholden to

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<v Speaker 2>a magabase that is really upset about this, they may

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<v Speaker 2>not as readily side with Republican initiatives if they can't

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<v Speaker 2>get what they want and prove to their base that

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<v Speaker 2>they're working towards sort of uncovering the Epstein conspiracy. I

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<v Speaker 2>think Trump's risk right now is that he does see

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<v Speaker 2>more defections, he does see more people who break with

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<v Speaker 2>him on this, and that people don't believe what he's

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<v Speaker 2>trying to feed them of. This isn't a big deal.

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<v Speaker 2>I know nothing about this, I was never involved. It's

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<v Speaker 2>all fake and it's tough for people to believe that

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<v Speaker 2>when presented with the idea that Trump turned his back

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<v Speaker 2>on them. And I think that that betrayal would really

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<v Speaker 2>resonate with a lot of people who previously were extremely

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<v Speaker 2>diehard about supporting.

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<v Speaker 1>Nick. Thank you once again for coming on and speaking

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<v Speaker 1>to us.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the years liberally to Jeremy Rockcliffe has claimed

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<v Speaker 1>victory in the Tasmanian state election after his party secured

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<v Speaker 1>more seats than Labor the Liberals from fourteen seats to

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<v Speaker 1>Labour's nine, with neither party reaching the eighteen seats required

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<v Speaker 1>to govern outright. Despite that, Rockliff says who lost the

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<v Speaker 1>governor to recommission his government, describing Labour's result as a

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<v Speaker 1>repudiation of his rivals. And Latham has rejected reports about

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<v Speaker 1>his alleged behavior towards former partner Natalie Matthews, calling them false,

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<v Speaker 1>reckless and irresponsible. Matthews is seeking in apprehended domestic violence

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<v Speaker 1>order against Latham, alleging a sustained pattern of abuse and manipulation.

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<v Speaker 1>Latham says he has broken no law and police are

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<v Speaker 1>not laid charges. His parliamentary colleagues have also criticized him

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<v Speaker 1>over derogatory messages he sent about female MPs. I'm Daniel James.

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<v Speaker 1>This is seven am. Thanks for listening.