WEBVTT - #2039 Plan With Your Head, Lead With Your Heart - Kerryn Vaughan 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:02.440 I get a team. It's the bloody Project. That's you, 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:04.600 it's tiff it's Cairing, it's Harps, it's us. It's a 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:11.080 fucking Friday. We're sliding in towards home base and I 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.760 couldn't be more excited. Tiffany and Cook is sitting over 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:17.080 there at typ Central with hair for days. I don't 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:21.040 really understand how one day you look like a builder's 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:25.279 laborer with like your hair pulled back, like you're some 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.440 kind of trade and now you look like some kind 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:31.880 of wild animal from the jungle with hair everywhere. How 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:35.000 does that happen? I'm a boy, How does that? How 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:37.640 have you got now a shock of red curly hair? 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.880 Yesterday you look like a bloke called Scott with a toolbag? 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:50.479 How does that happen? How do girls do that? How 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:54.720 do women do that? I just rock up every day 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:57.280 with the same head and the same ten dollar glasses. 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.800 You're like some kind of fucking urban chameleon. I don't 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:09.679 know who's going to turn up. Explain to me how 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:10.360 does that happen? 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:14.720 Well, when I wash it, if I have time, I 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.600 do you know a little little scrunchy scrunchy and let 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:20.160 it dry properly and see what happens and that that 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.920 happened today because I had some time. So here we are. 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.440 Wow. I feel like Karen is a lot closer to 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.400 the crag end of the scale in terms of hair, 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:36.039 hair care and giving a fuck about hair. Would you agree, Karen? 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:36.959 Yeah? 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:38.720 If I get out of the shower, dry, put some 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.240 wax on my hands, and just go rah rah amway 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:43.920 however it lands, it lands, Yep, don't care. 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:50.400 We've confirmed through rigorous scientific evaluation and testing with Tiff 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:54.680 that she's thirty percent dude, Ah, what would you give 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:59.000 yourself on that? You know, what percentage would you give yourself? Dude? 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.280 Me? Seventy seventy them. 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:05.880 Yeah, well that's more than me because I'm only sixty, 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:08.480 So well done. 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:11.160 She runs a conference called Girls with Hammers, so. 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:19.200 Yeah, yeah, oh that's funny. Yeah. Well, anyway, how are you? 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.440 Thank you so much for coming back on the You project. 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:27.240 Rather than me read some something off the internet, give 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:29.519 my audience who have not met you, can you give 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.480 them a quick snapshot of who you are and what 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:34.240 you're about before we dive in. 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:36.679 Oh look, if I give all that stuff, it's too much. 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.720 But let's say I run Girls with Hammers, which is conferences. 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.200 Maybe we'll do it again next year. And I run 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.600 retreats in Cambodia with my partner. I'm a leadership facilitator, 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:50.359 an author, speaker, podcast host, you know, just all that. 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.120 That's the sort of shit I do. What do I 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:54.520 care about? Who am I? I bloody want to change 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:56.440 the world, you know. I want to save the planet. 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:56.720 You know. 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:59.280 I want people to be at their best, and I 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:01.560 want to inspire people to believe that they're not a 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.840 piece of shit like they've been, like they've led themselves 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.280 to believe and you know, not good enough and all 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.080 that kind of stuff. So that's the stuff I work 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:12.400 on as hard as our bloody can to make. 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:16.600 How do you decide with all of those goals and ambitions, 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:21.080 as beautiful and as magnanimous as they are, how do 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:24.280 you decide what needs your attention and energy. I'm a 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:27.200 little bit like you. I'm like a dog with three dicks. 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.840 I get distracted, as does Tiff, by shiny things, and 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.160 I'm like, oh fuck, there's so much stuff to do. 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:39.160 How do you decide? Like, how do you prioritize your time, effort, 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:43.480 energy and skill so that you're not so that. I mean. 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:45.320 My point is I think a lot of people are 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:47.720 busy but not effective, you know. 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:52.160 So how do I keep it effective? Well, I don't know. 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:54.120 I'm very good at doing it in my head. I 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:55.440 need to do this today, and I need to do 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:58.200 that today in this today. But basically what I will 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:01.200 not do is spend time on things that are not 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.920 making a better world. So if what I'm doing I 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:06.720 think people are getting something out of it and they're 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.880 becoming better humans, then I'll find time in my diary 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.960 to you know, you know, make my day work. And 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:17.960 if someone wants me to do something that's not really effective, 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:22.120 it's just not going in my diary. That's as simple 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:23.719 as I can make it. I don't know how I 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:24.159 do it. 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:28.880 Sometimes I'm way what is Well, you're doing a good job, 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.720 and we hear good things, so you must be doing something. Okay, 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.760 What is effective leadership according to you? Not what does 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:39.039 the book say or the program say? Like, when you 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:42.360 meet somebody who's a good leader, what are you saying. 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:46.320 Ah, someone who really makes you feel seen, heard and valued. 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:50.480 You know, they appreciate you. They they're humble, but not 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.520 humble to a point that they're like putting themselves down. 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:57.200 You know, they let others shine. They're vulnerable, you know, 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.280 they tell the truth. They build trust because they up 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.279 as themselves and authentic, do you know, and don't try 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:05.400 to put on a big show and a bullshit kind 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:07.440 of I'm the boss, you know, look at me, I'm 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.320 so perfect. I have all the answers. Someone who really 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:14.960 brings their human self into it and really cares about 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:18.440 the people that are around them and cries to understand 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:20.800 who is that person as a human? How do I 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:25.040 connect with them better? Connection and relationships are buddy king. 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.320 When you're a leader, what. 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.960 Are the toughest bits of leadership? I feel like I'm 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:32.560 going to give you one that I think is tough, 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.320 and then you can speak to that and expand on 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:36.080 it if you want. 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:36.960 So. 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.000 For me, who employed over five hundred people when I 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.880 owned gyms over court of a century, I had multiple gyms, 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:48.360 lots and lots of staff over time, giving people feedback 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.960 was always fraught with danger, even if you had the 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:55.920 best of intentions. And when somebody's fucking up, let's be honest, 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.359 they're just fucking up. They're doing something that's done without 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.640 throwing them on to the emotional bus or destroying their confidence. 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:07.960 How do you how do you as a leader kind 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:12.480 of factor in their feelings and their psychological and emotional state, 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:14.599 but also tell them the truth. 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:20.480 I always think, and this is not there's no one 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:22.479 answer to this because it depends on the person. It 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.200 depends on the situation. It really does depend on a 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.880 lot of stuff. But I like to start off, we're saying, look, 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.159 this is this is where we need to be. You know, 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.160 these are the things outcomes we need to meet, and 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:37.080 we're not quite getting there. Do you know? Some things 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.080 are going wrong? What can we do together? How can 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:42.400 I support you to get back on track? Because we've 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.800 got because we have to achieve them. That's a non negotiable. 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.240 We have to achieve it. So what do we to do? 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.719 How are we going to get there? When I say 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:52.760 it like that, I'm making it sound like it's a 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:56.039 two minute conversation. It's not. Like I said, It depends 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.240 on depends on the person, depends on the situation, depends 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.240 on their emotional state. Look, when we communicate with people, 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:04.599 you know, we always think that that feedback loop, you know, 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:08.000 So it's kind of I send a message the receiver. 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.400 Here is that. Then they send me a little a 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:12.360 message back to say, yeah, I've got it. Now we're 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:15.080 in this little loop of communication. That's that's out a 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.800 bullshit because the communicator has this whole set of things 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.160 that the person sending the message. It's their tone, it's 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:24.760 their attitude, it's their knowledge, it's there, you know. All 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.080 of that is in a package and that gets sent 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.480 to the receiver, and then the receiver's got this package 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:34.119 that's ten times bigger because it's like, what's their emotional state, 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.000 what's their mental state, what's their health, what's their experiences, 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:39.480 what's their background, what's their culture, what are their beliefs, 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:41.920 what are their triggers, blah blah, and the list goes 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:44.360 on and on and on and on and so what 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.360 happens is and I always say this, and it's the truth. 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.000 There's the only true communication is the interpretation of the receiver. 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:55.200 So less you know the person well enough that you're 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.680 giving that that talk to or what you know that 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:03.680 feedback to, you're not guaranteed for it to land. Right. 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.040 And I'm really big on this. If you're going to 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:10.320 lead people, your priority is to get to know them, 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.160 to understand who they are. Yes, we've got a task 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:17.160 to do, Yes we do. But you just if you 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.640 know the people and you work with them according to 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:22.800 their strength and what they want and what they need 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:24.960 and all, like I don't mean panda to them, but 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.040 you know, work so that they're at their best. The 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.200 job gets done. The job sort of takes care of itself. 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.760 But if you push, push, push the job and you 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:36.480 don't know who you're pushing it to, it's ten times 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:38.400 as hard. Does that answer your question? 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah, Look, I mean that actually insects with 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:44.920 my research for my PhD, which is all around understanding 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.280 how other people think and how other people see the 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:50.760 world and how other people are experiencing this moment and 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.640 how other people are experiencing you in that moment. And 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.720 this is you know, that ability to be able to 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:02.960 in a particular moment in time with a particular one off, 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:06.360 one of a kind individual, to be able to have 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:12.040 some insight into there in the moment experience and feeling 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:17.680 and version of reality. That opens a door for connection 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:22.440 that people without those skills don't have. You know, It's 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:24.880 like you might have the best vocabulary and all the 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.720 degrees and all the theoretical knowledge. But if you're in 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.720 a moment with Tiff, and TIFF's feeling a certain way 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.320 that you're not feeling, and she's having an experience that 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.679 you're not having, and she's looking through a window that 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.280 you're not looking through, well it's really in your interest 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:46.360 to try to have some insight into her experience so 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:49.880 that you can build that connection. And this all sounds 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.880 good in theory, but yeah, this is and I think 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:57.120 for people like you, you probably just do that organically 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:01.199 and spontaneously without thinking it through from from a fucking 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.960 academic point of view, but you just do it in 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:04.400 the moment. 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:07.160 Well, I do it from the heart, and I really 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:10.400 want people to get better at that. You know, leadership 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:12.160 doesn't come from your head. It comes from your heart. 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:15.520 Like you can plan with your head, but you need 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.160 from your heart. And some people will disagree with that, 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:22.640 and that's okay, but it's also in the moment. If 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.000 you don't know what somebody's going through, you've got to 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.280 make them feel seen, hurd and valued, and you've got 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:30.000 to be kind like you've got to show kindness and 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:34.000 compassion in any of those situations and start from there 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.240 and then Look, if the person's not coming to the party, 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:37.800 then you can say, look, we're going to have to 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.120 push on this a little hard act because we've got 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:43.760 to have an outcome, yes, but starting with kindness and 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:48.120 starting with understanding them. And you're absolutely right about the perceptions. 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.840 I was just talking to someone about that yesterday. We 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.240 were talking about behaviors, and I said, but when we're 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:57.840 dealing with people, we're not. Actually the behavior comes second, 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:00.280 and we've got to think about how they're perceived leaving 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:02.760 something in the moment, and we've got to deal with 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:06.880 their perceptions, not not the facts fat first. You know, 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.120 we got to think, well, how did they perceive this? 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:11.600 Because we can't just throw facts at somebody and tell 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:15.000 them what's right or wrong if they've perceived it completely different. 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:16.920 You know, we have to get to the bottom of 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.760 that first. But I'm making it sound easy and it's not, 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:25.360 because every single human being is a unique mix of 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:32.160 you know, millions of stuff beneath the surface that you know, 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.520 we can never and we can never know another human 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.160 because we can never we don't even know ourselves. We 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:42.880 don't even know what's below our own surface, so we 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:44.640 can't do the best we can if we shaut with 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.120 kindness and compassion, it's a bloody good start. 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:52.720 Yeah, I agree. I mean also knowing that what will 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:56.400 work for one person will not work for another person. 0:11:56.840 --> 0:12:00.840 You know, even if your attentions are great, even if 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:05.560 you are leading with kindness and compassion and love and care, 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:07.680 it's still going to operate in wisdom. 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:10.960 Absolutely. I just had this conversation with a leader that 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.160 I was coaching. I need done you half an hour ago, 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:15.800 and we're talking about kindness and that kind of stuff. 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.520 And she said, and isn't it funny that some people 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:20.520 just don't want that? And she said, I did all 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.960 that kind of stuff with this guy. And she said, 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:25.920 I said, you know, you're really good, like I love 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:29.280 how you show up and and he said, just get 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:32.280 to the point. What are you trying to say? Yes, 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:34.959 she said, I could have saved all that time. 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:41.359 Well, there's a there's a really interesting concept in psychology 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:45.040 called the false consensus effect, which basically speaks to the 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.600 fact that most of us think that other people think 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:49.319 like us. 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:51.520 Yeah, absolutely, and so we think. 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:53.320 That, oh, this makes sense in my head, so it 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.480 will makes sense in Karen's head. And to me, this 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:58.920 would be nice and inspiring. So I'll say that to 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.160 Karen and it will be nice and inspiring, whereas for 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:07.520 you it's confusing and judgmental. Now, if I'm thinking I'm 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.880 giving you a positive but your experience of those words 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.440 is a negative, well one that's a problem. And two 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.640 if I don't know on top of that, well that's 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:18.640 another problem. 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:19.439 You know. 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:24.280 So this operating on the assumption that this person probably 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:27.640 isn't in my reality or a version of my reality. 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.840 This person doesn't think like me. That's not good or bad, 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.760 better or worse. That's just the situation we're in. And 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.240 then based on what I know about them, how do 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:40.319 I build rapport, how do I build trust? How do 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.120 I build respect? How do I build connection? What matters 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:44.760 to them? What's important to them? 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:45.560 You know? 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.440 What do they want to get out of this? It's 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.240 what's their version of right now? Because it's not my version. 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.640 Yep, absolutely, I love all of it. Yeah, And it's 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.160 and I think that body language too, there's another big 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.640 there's a whole other section because you can say, I 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.560 turn up with words and and how does kre and 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.040 interpret these words? And what's her reality? But our body 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.640 language is most of our communication, do you know. So 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.240 if we come in opened and open, relaxed and warm, 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.679 instead of coming in with a full body sort of 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:18.880 intimidation type thing, then we're already we've already built that 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.800 connection by not threatening somebody, you know, or we've already 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:27.400 at least eliminated the risk of threat. So but again, 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.600 then that when I was talking about the stuff that's 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.280 going on for the receiver, if you've got like I 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.600 was talking about emotional health, mental health, physical health, but 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:41.280 you've also got syndromes and conditions sitting under that as well, 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.680 Because then you've got you know, autism or ADHD, or 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.560 you've got another syndrome sitting under there. That throws another 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:54.520 another level of complexity into the situation. And I don't 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:58.600 think leadership's easy at all, But I do think it's 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:05.400 easier if if we start just start with accepting people 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:07.320 for who they are and understanding that we don't know 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:09.880 everything about them more and what's right for us might 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.720 not be right for them, and just start I don't know, 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:14.560 I think that's the best place to start from and 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.520 then build something from there. And I always talk to 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.720 people about connection. Now I haven't got time for connection. 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:24.120 I'm like going to the staff room and make a 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:26.240 coppa at the same time as them and say, hey, 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.520 it's your morning bean. You know that takes you the 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.280 time it takes to make a coppa and there. But 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:34.200 what if I get stuck talking and ah shit, you know, 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:37.560 like this is the problem. You can always say, oh, 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:39.400 that's fantastic, I'm going to go. Can we catch up 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.840 at lunchtime? You know, well what have you? But this 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.440 connection thing scares people. I don't know why. I think. 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:51.280 I think one of the realities of corporate Australia and 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:55.000 probably corporate America and England and Canada and everyone else 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:58.760 that listens to this show is that some people get 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:02.640 put in leadership position is because they're intellectually smart or 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:07.600 they're very skilled at the job or the industry, and 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:09.560 they know a lot about the industry, they know a 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:13.600 lot about the mechanics of the business. But they're not 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:18.520 great with humans, Like they've got low social and emotional intelligence, 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:24.760 poor situational awareness, they lack empathy, and they may or 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:26.160 may not be a sociopath. 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:27.520 You know. 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.000 And this sounds like, oh that's harsh. No, that's just 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:34.840 statistically true. I mean, you know, depending on which research, 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:37.400 three to five percent of the population. Let's say three 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:42.600 are sociopaths. Well, in a country of twenty five million people, 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:47.440 three percent is seven hundred and fifty thousand sociopaths. That's 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:49.960 working on the low end. That's a fucking lot of 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.440 people who don't care about other people, right, And then 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.160 you think a lot of sociopaths are actually really smart 0:16:56.200 --> 0:17:01.880 intellectually and can also be charismatic and charming. Right now, 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.280 I'm not saying you know that your boss is a sociopath. 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:07.800 I'm just saying there are there are lots of people 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:12.520 in leadership positions who won don't have the innate compassion 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:18.560 or care, or skills or even capacity sometimes to be 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:20.560 able to care about people. 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:24.560 Yeah, one hundred percent. Well, I would call their managers 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:28.959 more than leaders. And it's not bagging managers. But you know, 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.840 just because you've got a title doesn't make you a leader, 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:35.320 do you you know, And just because you don't have 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:39.080 a title doesn't make you not a leader either. But 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:42.320 I think we confuse management leadership. You know, a good 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.320 leader should be able to manage, a good manager should 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.400 be able to lead, like it should go hand in hand. 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:49.560 But there are a lot of managers out there who 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:54.080 are shiit leaders, and they really cause a lot of problems. 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:58.120 And man, well, I don't know. I do my best 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:00.720 to try and get people to understand that, but you 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:02.680 can't change everyone. Wish we could. 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.639 Tell me about girls with hammers? What's the what's the 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.720 intention behind that? Who's it for? What's it about to? 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.359 I started? I started that off. I was looking as 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:14.159 parked out front of a work where shop, you know, 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.120 flunnies and girls should wear flunnies. And then I said, 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.840 I'm going to start this something called girls and Hammers. 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:21.200 I'm going to go into schools and I'm going to 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:23.600 tell girls that they can be anything they want and 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:26.440 they should stop sexualizing themselves to the boys and all 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.080 that kind of shit. And so I didn't do anything 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:31.040 about it, because you know, I was trying to protect 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:33.480 my time and I was talking at a I was 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:37.160 coaching on a table at a women's International Women's Date 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:41.679 thing event, and there was this fantastic card on the 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.359 table that said I will launch a Peppers full female 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.359 focused initiative, and I thought yes, and I picked it 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:49.600 up because all the other cards said I will stand 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:51.920 up for women, and I will speak out, and I thought, ah, shit, 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:54.480 you should be doing that anyway, do you? You know 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.040 most are not. I picked this up up on the 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.280 stage in front of three hundred women's they're not going 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:01.840 to do this, Like yes, I got off the stage 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.240 and the shit, now I've got to do it. This 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.320 is what I always do in life. I shit. Anyway. 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:09.160 I come home and tell my partner and she said, well, 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.320 we're gonna have to start girls with hammers. And I said, well, 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.679 if if I'm starting at you're coming in with me. 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:16.880 So then I did. I tried to do the school thing. 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:18.640 Shit. 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:20.760 I went out to a couple of schools and sort 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.080 of tried to do workshops and say, you know what, 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:26.280 don't sexualize yourself and you're better than that. These girls 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:28.920 are looking at me like this is this fucking nana 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.880 coming and telling us do that sort of shit. It 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:36.119 really didn't work. It failed, but we decided to have 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:39.720 a conference anyway and see who would turn up, and 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.280 mostly it was women forty five to sixty five, and 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.679 they just wanted connection. They just wanted to hear stories 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:49.320 about people who inspired them, but also to go that's 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:53.840 my story. You know, I'm not alone. Someone else. Yeah, 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:56.240 So that's it. And we've done six of them, and 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:00.560 usually every year. This year we had a break because, well, 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:02.800 you're asking me before, wen, do you know when to stop? 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.920 This year we said, I just can't do it. It's 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:09.040 one day a year, but it's definitely not one day 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:11.760 in planning and definitely not one day in building. You know, 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:15.680 it's a lot of work. So yeah, so we pulled 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:17.920 back on it this year and we expect to do 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:19.000 it next year, but we don't know. 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:23.040 And how do you? How do you manage you? It's 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.480 like you and I probably have a similar job in 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:30.320 that there's a lot of mental and emotional investment. I'm 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:33.400 constantly talking to people who are in not very good places, 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:35.960 and these are not light or easy or comfortable or 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:39.280 painless conversations. I get the vibe that you do a 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:42.639 lot of that. I have my own kind of protocol 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.760 as to how I manage me so that I can 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:47.440 be the best me for them. 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:52.920 What's what's that look like for you? Well, I've become 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:56.040 very good at not personalizing anything. I've become very good 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.040 at saying, well, you're responsible for your own destiny, do 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.600 you know? So I don't say that to the person. 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.000 But that's my thoughts about it. You know, I give 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:06.840 them as much as I can in the time I've gone, 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:10.119 even when I'm doing in person leadership programs. You know, 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.440 I give, I give. I give two hundred percent of myself, 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:15.600 you know, And I love and I dead set do 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:18.639