1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,390 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,270 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. We all know that house prices are slipping with 3 00:00:09,270 --> 00:00:11,879 Sean Aylmer: a rate of decline and steepest in decades, but at 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,780 Sean Aylmer: the same time the rental market is getting increasingly tight. 5 00:00:16,140 --> 00:00:19,079 Sean Aylmer: According to Domain's rent report for the September quarter, house 6 00:00:19,110 --> 00:00:22,230 Sean Aylmer: and unit rents across our capital cities have reached a 7 00:00:22,230 --> 00:00:25,470 Sean Aylmer: new record high. So what does this mean for investors, 8 00:00:25,470 --> 00:00:28,290 Sean Aylmer: for renters finding themselves priced out of the market and 9 00:00:28,290 --> 00:00:31,200 Sean Aylmer: for house prices more broadly? Dr. Nicola Powell is the 10 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,110 Sean Aylmer: chief of research and economics at Domain. Nicola, welcome back 11 00:00:34,290 --> 00:00:35,070 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed. 12 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,100 Dr. Nicola Powell: Thanks for having me back. It's great to be on 13 00:00:38,100 --> 00:00:38,820 Dr. Nicola Powell: Fear and Greed. 14 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,110 Sean Aylmer: Some pretty big numbers. House rents up almost 2% in 15 00:00:43,110 --> 00:00:47,159 Sean Aylmer: the September quarter, unit rents are up 6. 5%. Sort of 16 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,320 Sean Aylmer: what's going on in the market and then why the 17 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:50,280 Sean Aylmer: difference between the two? 18 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,230 Dr. Nicola Powell: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think the rental market has been in 19 00:00:55,230 --> 00:00:59,160 Dr. Nicola Powell: some pain for a while. We've seen escalating rents for 20 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,610 Dr. Nicola Powell: some time. When you have a look across our capital 21 00:01:02,610 --> 00:01:06,029 Dr. Nicola Powell: city markets, all of them are in a landlord's market. 22 00:01:06,300 --> 00:01:09,809 Dr. Nicola Powell: So it is very competitive conditions for tenants. I think 23 00:01:09,810 --> 00:01:13,650 Dr. Nicola Powell: what's interesting over the September quarter is we started to 24 00:01:13,650 --> 00:01:17,100 Dr. Nicola Powell: see kind of different trends emerge. So while we were 25 00:01:17,100 --> 00:01:21,240 Dr. Nicola Powell: seeing kind of record high house rents through the pandemic, 26 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,890 Dr. Nicola Powell: what we are seeing now is unit rents are recovering swiftly 27 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,700 Dr. Nicola Powell: from the pandemic induced dip in asking rents. And what 28 00:01:29,700 --> 00:01:32,400 Dr. Nicola Powell: we've got now is unit rents are now surpassing the 29 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,630 Dr. Nicola Powell: rental growth of house rents across our combined capitals unit 30 00:01:36,630 --> 00:01:41,490 Dr. Nicola Powell: rents surged 6. 5% over the September quarter, which is 31 00:01:41,490 --> 00:01:44,610 Dr. Nicola Powell: quite a big jump. There are up almost 17% over 32 00:01:44,610 --> 00:01:48,060 Dr. Nicola Powell: the past year so I think answering that direct question 33 00:01:48,060 --> 00:01:50,460 Dr. Nicola Powell: around the difference between kind of the sales market and the 34 00:01:50,460 --> 00:01:53,460 Dr. Nicola Powell: rental market, you're right, we've got very different trends going 35 00:01:53,460 --> 00:01:56,040 Dr. Nicola Powell: on and I think there are different factors that are 36 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,830 Dr. Nicola Powell: influencing both of those. I think when you look at 37 00:01:58,830 --> 00:02:03,930 Dr. Nicola Powell: the sales market, sales are influenced by similar things to 38 00:02:03,930 --> 00:02:06,240 Dr. Nicola Powell: the rental markets such as population growth and there are 39 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,870 Dr. Nicola Powell: many factors that influence price cycles. But there is this 40 00:02:09,870 --> 00:02:13,079 Dr. Nicola Powell: influence obviously of the cost of living and higher interest 41 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,200 Dr. Nicola Powell: rates which are having a bigger impact on the sales 42 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,290 Dr. Nicola Powell: market and the softening prices. But in the rental market there 43 00:02:19,290 --> 00:02:21,720 Dr. Nicola Powell: are some other factors such as overseas migration. 44 00:02:22,169 --> 00:02:25,110 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Is there much difference between capital cities? Are there 45 00:02:25,110 --> 00:02:27,210 Sean Aylmer: certain, because we know in the housing market Sydney is 46 00:02:27,210 --> 00:02:31,470 Sean Aylmer: particularly dire, Melbourne's not much better and even Brisbane's come 47 00:02:31,470 --> 00:02:35,220 Sean Aylmer: off. So we think about the selling market in terms 48 00:02:35,220 --> 00:02:38,070 Sean Aylmer: of regions. Is it the same for rents? 49 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,139 Dr. Nicola Powell: Look, it is pretty similar. I mean, we've got rising 50 00:02:43,139 --> 00:02:46,050 Dr. Nicola Powell: rents across all of our capital cities. The only one 51 00:02:46,050 --> 00:02:49,380 Dr. Nicola Powell: that really bucked the trend was Canberra. Canberra house rents 52 00:02:49,380 --> 00:02:54,060 Dr. Nicola Powell: declined over the three months to September. They're down $ 10 53 00:02:54,060 --> 00:02:56,580 Dr. Nicola Powell: so it is a minor decline. But I think you 54 00:02:56,580 --> 00:02:59,580 Dr. Nicola Powell: know what that, in Canberra you know what it has 55 00:02:59,580 --> 00:03:02,460 Dr. Nicola Powell: done is it's an abrupt halt to the rising rents 56 00:03:02,460 --> 00:03:06,060 Dr. Nicola Powell: that were occurring prior. And I think the difference in 57 00:03:06,060 --> 00:03:10,109 Dr. Nicola Powell: Canberra, and look it's really unusual actually to see asking 58 00:03:10,110 --> 00:03:13,710 Dr. Nicola Powell: rents decline when the vacancy rate is still technically a 59 00:03:13,710 --> 00:03:17,070 Dr. Nicola Powell: landlord's market and it's still very tight. But what we've 60 00:03:17,070 --> 00:03:19,680 Dr. Nicola Powell: seen in Canberra, it's seen the biggest jump over the 61 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,200 Dr. Nicola Powell: last year of its, or over the last, since the 62 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,870 Dr. Nicola Powell: beginning of this year of its vacancy rates. So we've 63 00:03:24,870 --> 00:03:27,930 Dr. Nicola Powell: seen an increase in available properties to rent, which I 64 00:03:27,930 --> 00:03:30,600 Dr. Nicola Powell: think is helping to alleviate conditions. And when you look 65 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,230 Dr. Nicola Powell: at the unit rental market across the capital cities, again, 66 00:03:34,230 --> 00:03:37,440 Dr. Nicola Powell: largely we've got all of them rising. Hobart was the 67 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,810 Dr. Nicola Powell: only one to see, Hobart and Canberra, sorry, were the 68 00:03:39,810 --> 00:03:42,630 Dr. Nicola Powell: only capital cities to see steady rents over the quarter. 69 00:03:43,020 --> 00:03:46,140 Dr. Nicola Powell: And we're seeing pretty strong rates of growth across all 70 00:03:46,140 --> 00:03:49,950 Dr. Nicola Powell: of those capital city markets. Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide, and 71 00:03:49,950 --> 00:03:53,910 Dr. Nicola Powell: Perth. Also, quite a jump in asking rents for units 72 00:03:53,910 --> 00:03:55,740 Dr. Nicola Powell: over the three months to September. 73 00:03:56,190 --> 00:03:58,200 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Nicola. We'll be back in a minute. 74 00:04:03,930 --> 00:04:06,480 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Dr. Nicola Powell, chief of 75 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,590 Sean Aylmer: research and economics at Domain. Nicola. You mentioned vacancy rates. 76 00:04:10,590 --> 00:04:14,220 Sean Aylmer: I presume they're low, that's why apartment rents and house rent 77 00:04:14,460 --> 00:04:18,660 Sean Aylmer: are going up. What does all this mean for house 78 00:04:18,810 --> 00:04:21,630 Sean Aylmer: prices? Because surely there must be investors out there thinking, 79 00:04:22,170 --> 00:04:24,750 Sean Aylmer: I'm getting 15% more than I did 12 months ago 80 00:04:24,750 --> 00:04:26,130 Sean Aylmer: on a unit. Maybe I should invest. 81 00:04:27,150 --> 00:04:29,940 Dr. Nicola Powell: Look, it's really interesting when you start talking about those 82 00:04:29,940 --> 00:04:32,969 Dr. Nicola Powell: gross rental yields because we are now seeing an improvement 83 00:04:32,970 --> 00:04:36,120 Dr. Nicola Powell: in gross rental yields. And obviously that is attractive to 84 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,599 Dr. Nicola Powell: investors when you've got that cash flow improving. I think 85 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,760 Dr. Nicola Powell: it does depend upon the capital city. I mean we've 86 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,810 Dr. Nicola Powell: got gross rental yields improving across most of them. Some 87 00:04:45,810 --> 00:04:48,750 Dr. Nicola Powell: of them have still got a marginal decline, but it's 88 00:04:48,750 --> 00:04:50,760 Dr. Nicola Powell: really interesting. So when you have a look at say, 89 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,430 Dr. Nicola Powell: Sydney and Melbourne, the gross rental yields are very low. 90 00:04:54,180 --> 00:04:57,420 Dr. Nicola Powell: They're around two to 3% for a house and around that 91 00:04:57,420 --> 00:05:01,470 Dr. Nicola Powell: kind of 4% mark for a unit. They are improving 92 00:05:01,470 --> 00:05:04,080 Dr. Nicola Powell: and when you have a look at gross rental yields 93 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,680 Dr. Nicola Powell: in Sydney, you know can largely deduce that a big portion 94 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,160 Dr. Nicola Powell: of investors in Sydney are negatively gearing because of the 95 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,430 Dr. Nicola Powell: high purchasing cost. But I think when you have a 96 00:05:14,430 --> 00:05:18,060 Dr. Nicola Powell: look towards some of the other gross yields in other capital cities, 97 00:05:18,630 --> 00:05:21,480 Dr. Nicola Powell: they have improved. And Perth is one of those markets 98 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,110 Dr. Nicola Powell: that jumps out. So Perth gross rental yields for houses 99 00:05:25,110 --> 00:05:28,560 Dr. Nicola Powell: are just over 5% and for units they're nearly 6%. 100 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,089 Dr. Nicola Powell: Now this is a record level of gross rental yields for 101 00:05:33,089 --> 00:05:36,000 Dr. Nicola Powell: the Perth market and I think that in itself will 102 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,409 Dr. Nicola Powell: be very enticing for investors looking for that positive cash flow. 103 00:05:40,980 --> 00:05:44,970 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, absolutely. And if that continues you would think that, that would put 104 00:05:44,970 --> 00:05:48,570 Sean Aylmer: some, maybe not a floor on falling prices, but certainly 105 00:05:48,570 --> 00:05:51,900 Sean Aylmer: would slow down the pace of falling prices. 106 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,740 Dr. Nicola Powell: Yeah, you would think so. I think there are other 107 00:05:55,740 --> 00:05:59,370 Dr. Nicola Powell: factors obviously to consider in terms of rising interest rates. 108 00:05:59,370 --> 00:06:03,810 Dr. Nicola Powell: And I really think that an investor that is, seasoned 109 00:06:03,810 --> 00:06:08,370 Dr. Nicola Powell: investor as I call them, somebody that has maybe already 110 00:06:08,370 --> 00:06:12,210 Dr. Nicola Powell: in the property market as an investor, I think they've 111 00:06:12,210 --> 00:06:15,060 Dr. Nicola Powell: probably been looking for some time. And I think with 112 00:06:15,180 --> 00:06:19,140 Dr. Nicola Powell: such strength in the rental market it gives further reason 113 00:06:19,140 --> 00:06:22,529 Dr. Nicola Powell: for investors to be active in the market. And I 114 00:06:22,529 --> 00:06:25,529 Dr. Nicola Powell: always think, what's the future going to hold? When you 115 00:06:25,529 --> 00:06:27,870 Dr. Nicola Powell: have a look at how the rental market is performing, 116 00:06:28,230 --> 00:06:31,589 Dr. Nicola Powell: it is extraordinary tight. It's a landlord's market, those vacancy 117 00:06:31,589 --> 00:06:33,779 Dr. Nicola Powell: rates are low. And when you have a look at 118 00:06:33,779 --> 00:06:37,800 Dr. Nicola Powell: the main drivers of this tightening rental market in terms 119 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:39,780 Dr. Nicola Powell: of main drivers, I mean the things that have changed, 120 00:06:40,140 --> 00:06:42,630 Dr. Nicola Powell: the things that are changing are overseas migration and short- 121 00:06:42,630 --> 00:06:46,380 Dr. Nicola Powell: term arrivals and short- term arrivals includes things like foreign 122 00:06:46,380 --> 00:06:50,219 Dr. Nicola Powell: students and tourism. That is going to continue to ramp 123 00:06:50,220 --> 00:06:52,469 Dr. Nicola Powell: up and that is going to continue to place pressure 124 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,080 Dr. Nicola Powell: on our rental markets. And I think, well, what's going 125 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:56,789 Dr. Nicola Powell: to happen towards the end of the year when we 126 00:06:56,790 --> 00:07:00,450 Dr. Nicola Powell: get to that new university year, an influx of new 127 00:07:00,450 --> 00:07:03,630 Dr. Nicola Powell: international students, that's going to weigh heavily on our rental 128 00:07:03,630 --> 00:07:07,200 Dr. Nicola Powell: markets, particularly on those areas that are already seeing strong 129 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,710 Dr. Nicola Powell: rates of rental growth, that recovery in those rents in 130 00:07:10,710 --> 00:07:15,300 Dr. Nicola Powell: those inner city areas around those university sectors. I think there is 131 00:07:15,870 --> 00:07:20,369 Dr. Nicola Powell: going to be some pain for rental prices, particularly in 132 00:07:20,370 --> 00:07:21,570 Dr. Nicola Powell: those areas moving forward. 133 00:07:22,110 --> 00:07:25,260 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Does this have a social effect when you are 134 00:07:25,620 --> 00:07:29,160 Sean Aylmer: finding it difficult to afford rent that must have a 135 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,020 Sean Aylmer: flow on just beyond the property market? 136 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,400 Dr. Nicola Powell: Look, I really think this social effect is an interesting 137 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:39,840 Dr. Nicola Powell: conversation because I think it's already having an impact in 138 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:43,380 Dr. Nicola Powell: terms of decisions from tenants. I call it that the 139 00:07:43,380 --> 00:07:47,070 Dr. Nicola Powell: affordability ceiling. There is only so much a tenant can 140 00:07:47,070 --> 00:07:50,280 Dr. Nicola Powell: afford and they can only face so much in terms 141 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,670 Dr. Nicola Powell: of rising rents. And then that does is once that 142 00:07:53,670 --> 00:07:56,369 Dr. Nicola Powell: affordability ceiling is reached, a tenant has to make a 143 00:07:56,370 --> 00:08:00,300 Dr. Nicola Powell: compromise. That compromise is either location or it's either the 144 00:08:00,300 --> 00:08:02,400 Dr. Nicola Powell: type of property they can afford. And I think that's 145 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,890 Dr. Nicola Powell: one of the reasons why we've seen this steer towards 146 00:08:05,220 --> 00:08:08,490 Dr. Nicola Powell: the unit rental market because it's obviously much more affordable. 147 00:08:08,820 --> 00:08:13,140 Dr. Nicola Powell: But then there's also this other idea around changing formation 148 00:08:13,140 --> 00:08:16,740 Dr. Nicola Powell: of houses. Are we starting to see now people decide 149 00:08:16,740 --> 00:08:20,760 Dr. Nicola Powell: to go into house shares if they're able to cut 150 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,250 Dr. Nicola Powell: the costs, share the costs, the burden of living. It's 151 00:08:23,250 --> 00:08:26,400 Dr. Nicola Powell: not just about rents, it's about rising energy prices, it's about 152 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,350 Dr. Nicola Powell: the overall rising costs of living is really hurting all 153 00:08:31,350 --> 00:08:32,189 Dr. Nicola Powell: of our belts. 154 00:08:32,970 --> 00:08:35,970 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, I mean that's a really interesting aspect to it 155 00:08:35,970 --> 00:08:38,580 Sean Aylmer: because you are kind of saying it's not just about 156 00:08:38,580 --> 00:08:41,850 Sean Aylmer: how much rent you can pay as inflation continues to 157 00:08:41,850 --> 00:08:45,179 Sean Aylmer: fly and cost of living rises people are making kind 158 00:08:45,179 --> 00:08:46,800 Sean Aylmer: of bigger picture decisions almost. 159 00:08:47,610 --> 00:08:52,410 Dr. Nicola Powell: Yeah, I absolutely think they are. And I think we talk 160 00:08:52,410 --> 00:08:56,670 Dr. Nicola Powell: about solutions. So what is the solutions of this rental 161 00:08:56,730 --> 00:09:00,780 Dr. Nicola Powell: crisis that is largely across a lot of parts of 162 00:09:00,780 --> 00:09:04,410 Dr. Nicola Powell: Australia and there is no quick fix to the rental 163 00:09:04,410 --> 00:09:07,920 Dr. Nicola Powell: crisis. And I think the sooner we act the better 164 00:09:08,100 --> 00:09:11,820 Dr. Nicola Powell: because when you've got big tourism campaigns that are going 165 00:09:11,820 --> 00:09:15,480 Dr. Nicola Powell: to be launching to attract tourism back to Australia, we've 166 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:20,160 Dr. Nicola Powell: got a excellent university sector which makes very attractive for 167 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,819 Dr. Nicola Powell: international students to come to Australia. And the ramping up 168 00:09:23,820 --> 00:09:27,120 Dr. Nicola Powell: of overseas migration as a result of the skilled shortage 169 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,750 Dr. Nicola Powell: in Australia, we want to attract skilled migrants into Australia. 170 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:32,880 Dr. Nicola Powell: These are all going to place additional demand on our 171 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,429 Dr. Nicola Powell: rental market. How are we going to house this additional 172 00:09:35,429 --> 00:09:37,890 Dr. Nicola Powell: population? What are we going to do to this for 173 00:09:37,890 --> 00:09:42,300 Dr. Nicola Powell: this tight rental market and particularly for low income households 174 00:09:42,300 --> 00:09:45,179 Dr. Nicola Powell: in Australia? I mean, there are many solutions and I 175 00:09:45,179 --> 00:09:47,460 Dr. Nicola Powell: think the sooner that we act the better. 176 00:09:48,059 --> 00:09:50,820 Sean Aylmer: Is that a suggestion that government should be doing something about it? 177 00:09:51,630 --> 00:09:55,200 Dr. Nicola Powell: Yes, I do. And it's a multi- pronged approach. I 178 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,970 Dr. Nicola Powell: think we, firstly if we think about low income earners 179 00:10:00,300 --> 00:10:03,660 Dr. Nicola Powell: in Australia, low income households I should say, when you 180 00:10:03,660 --> 00:10:06,630 Dr. Nicola Powell: look at rental assistance, it hasn't risen in line with 181 00:10:06,630 --> 00:10:09,809 Dr. Nicola Powell: rising rents over recent years so I do think we 182 00:10:09,809 --> 00:10:13,439 Dr. Nicola Powell: need an increase in rental assistance for those that need 183 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,020 Dr. Nicola Powell: it. On the other side to that as well, it's 184 00:10:16,020 --> 00:10:20,160 Dr. Nicola Powell: social housing. We haven't built enough social housing. And what 185 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,860 Dr. Nicola Powell: that does is it places additional pressure in the private 186 00:10:22,860 --> 00:10:25,140 Dr. Nicola Powell: rental market, which is the numbers that we are talking 187 00:10:25,140 --> 00:10:28,080 Dr. Nicola Powell: about here. So those lower income households that should be 188 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:33,030 Dr. Nicola Powell: in social housing are facing escalating costs of rent, and 189 00:10:33,030 --> 00:10:36,270 Dr. Nicola Powell: they're in this private rental market. That's placing additional demand 190 00:10:36,270 --> 00:10:38,490 Dr. Nicola Powell: on the private rental market when really they should be 191 00:10:38,490 --> 00:10:42,000 Dr. Nicola Powell: in social housing. And it's other things like when you 192 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,910 Dr. Nicola Powell: think about, say, the build to rent sector, Australia is 193 00:10:44,910 --> 00:10:47,880 Dr. Nicola Powell: very much behind other countries such as the UK. The 194 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:52,050 Dr. Nicola Powell: build to rent sector is a great solution to boost 195 00:10:52,050 --> 00:10:56,309 Dr. Nicola Powell: the supply and rent accommodation in Australia. And also it's 196 00:10:56,309 --> 00:10:59,400 Dr. Nicola Powell: things like red tape, it's things like changing land use, 197 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,239 Dr. Nicola Powell: allowing us to build more dwellings in those kind of 198 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,390 Dr. Nicola Powell: middle ring suburbs to really help kind of boost the 199 00:11:06,390 --> 00:11:10,050 Dr. Nicola Powell: supply. And then there's the other side around affordable housing. 200 00:11:10,050 --> 00:11:14,370 Dr. Nicola Powell: How do we really help tenants become homeowners? Affordable housing, 201 00:11:14,370 --> 00:11:17,790 Dr. Nicola Powell: helping them transition to becoming homeowners, becoming those first term 202 00:11:17,790 --> 00:11:20,550 Dr. Nicola Powell: buyers to help alleviate some of those demand pressures. 203 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,719 Sean Aylmer: It's going to be fascinating to watch. Nicola, thank you 204 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:24,930 Sean Aylmer: for talking to Fear and Greed. 205 00:11:24,931 --> 00:11:25,141 Dr. Nicola Powell: Thank you. 206 00:11:25,500 --> 00:11:28,349 Sean Aylmer: That was Dr. Nicola Powell, chief of research and economics 207 00:11:28,350 --> 00:11:30,990 Sean Aylmer: at Domain. This is the Fear and Greed daily interview. 208 00:11:30,990 --> 00:11:33,540 Sean Aylmer: Remember, this information is general in nature and you should 209 00:11:33,540 --> 00:11:37,260 Sean Aylmer: always seek professional advice before making any investment decisions. Join 210 00:11:37,260 --> 00:11:39,030 Sean Aylmer: us every morning for the full episode of Fear and 211 00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:42,750 Sean Aylmer: Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy 212 00:11:42,750 --> 00:11:42,929 Sean Aylmer: your day.