Speaker 1: Concentration levels were high at Lockheed Martin's headquarters in Canberra.
Speaker 1: Fingertips were tapping away at keyboards and eyes glued to
Speaker 1: screens as fifteen teams from around the nation battled it
Speaker 1: out at code Quest.
Speaker 2: It's pretty fascinating to see photos of children with their
Speaker 2: code Quest certificates standing in front of a Lockheed Martin banner.
Speaker 1: More businesses urged to host events similar to this.
Speaker 2: And these are companies like Lockheed Martin, bae, rafeon, Boeing.
Speaker 2: They're all in there basically providing stem curriculum. If you're
Speaker 2: making money off making weapons, you shouldn't be involved in
Speaker 2: delivering educational material. I think that's definitely a conversation that
Speaker 2: needs to be.
Speaker 3: Had from Schwartz Media. I'm Ashlyn McGee. This is seven AM.
Speaker 3: For the past few months, there's been a lot of
Speaker 3: focus on university's relationships with the weapons manufacturers. Students set
Speaker 3: up camps and occupied buildings, arguing that the universities are
Speaker 3: complicit in the assault on Gaza and demanding more transparency.
Speaker 3: But as writer and contributor to The Saturday Paper, Anakrean
Speaker 3: started investigating defense money flowing into education. She was startled
Speaker 3: to find weapons. Companies are involved in schools too, shaping
Speaker 3: key hearts of the curriculum. Australia can't be a major
Speaker 3: defense player without a skilled defense industry. So are these
Speaker 3: trade offs we're willing to live with today? And Akreean
Speaker 3: on how the student protests revealed really deep divisions in
Speaker 3: our education sector.
Speaker 4: That's after the break.
Speaker 3: And are you were watching as students are universities across
Speaker 3: the country occupied the grounds in protest over the last
Speaker 3: couple of months. Tell me about what's been happening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, So there's been about a dozen or so
Speaker 2: student encampments across the country basically part of the sort
Speaker 2: of nationwide Free Palestine protest movement.
Speaker 5: Tensions ran high in Melbourne as protests unfold across the country.
Speaker 5: Pro Palestinian camps have now been set up at universities
Speaker 5: in Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, Adelaide and Perth. Inspired by the
Speaker 5: movement in the US.
Speaker 2: They've been ongoing since about April, asking for their universities
Speaker 2: to disclose and divest from relationships with Israeli universities.
Speaker 5: Young people are tired of being plicated and told to
Speaker 5: sit by while our government supports horrors unfold in Palestine.
Speaker 2: But also so I think, probably most interestingly, to divest
Speaker 2: from research partnerships with weapons manufacturers.
Speaker 3: Sen's of billions of dollars of partnerships with weapons manufacturers,
Speaker 3: including but not limited to Lucked, Martin, Bolling and DA Systems.
Speaker 2: Not They were arguing that these relationships with these weapons manufacturers,
Speaker 2: I mean, and these are the big primes as they're known,
Speaker 2: these big weapons companies that were seeded in the Cold
Speaker 2: War era and have become you know, the major weapons manufacturers.
Speaker 4: Wherever there's a war, wherever.
Speaker 2: There's something going on, you know, you'll be sure to
Speaker 2: find their hardware. In the process, we demand that our
Speaker 2: university cut ties with the weapons company. They're saying, this
Speaker 2: is a degree of complicity that we need to take
Speaker 2: responsibility for.
Speaker 6: Evening, we'll breaking news now pro Palestinian protesters have taken
Speaker 6: over a building at the University of Melbourne. They are
Speaker 6: vowing they will not move.
Speaker 2: A few weeks ago in Melbourne, the protests groups they're
Speaker 2: really up the ante. When they went from the lawn,
Speaker 2: had had a whole bunch of tents set up. Then
Speaker 2: they actually moved into the Arts West building and occupied it.
Speaker 6: University staff are warning the group leave now of face arrest.
Speaker 6: Victoria Police have told us they're monitoring the situation.
Speaker 4: And it was quite a definitive move on their part.
Speaker 2: That's when they really forced the administrators to the table
Speaker 2: to negotiate what their demands were, and the University of
Speaker 2: Melbourne agreed to disclose their relationships with weapons manufacturers and
Speaker 2: be more transparent about these relationships what transpires within them.
Speaker 3: So and to tell me a little bit more about
Speaker 3: how Australian universities working with weapons companies. What do we
Speaker 3: know about those relationships and how strong the links are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it's really interesting and I think
Speaker 2: a lot of people didn't know about it until these
Speaker 2: recent protests. The Coalition government under Malcolm Turnbull, they announced
Speaker 2: two hundred billion for defense over the following decade.
Speaker 7: Decade long military build ups about to pump defense suppliers
Speaker 7: with more than two hundred billion dollars in orders.
Speaker 8: This is a big game changing step.
Speaker 2: Malcolm Turnbull basically announced that Australia now has an ambition
Speaker 2: to get into the top ten weapons exporters.
Speaker 7: Today, the Prime Minister Maurice Paine and I launched the
Speaker 7: Defense export strategy for Australia. It's the first time any
Speaker 7: government has made such a dramatic commitment to growing our
Speaker 7: defense exports and ensuring that we overcome the peaks and
Speaker 7: troughs that have the devil the defense industry over many
Speaker 7: decades in Australia.
Speaker 2: So eight years ago, Universe City of Melbourne announced a
Speaker 2: co joint research center with Lockheed Martin, which is the
Speaker 2: largest weapons exporter in the world.
Speaker 8: The establishment of the lab here is advanced R and
Speaker 8: D by Australians, but for the globe. You know that
Speaker 8: we're doing this for the planet. That's really important to me.
Speaker 2: And it was announced as quite enthusiastically as the first
Speaker 2: time Lockheed Martin has opened a research center outside of
Speaker 2: the United States. Less than two years later, there was
Speaker 2: another press release which announced an agreement between BAE Systems
Speaker 2: to have future collaborations between the university and that massive company.
Speaker 9: Are you hunting for a career and life post UNI?
Speaker 9: That solid, flexible and gives you a real sense of purpose. Hi,
Speaker 9: I'm Cassie from BAE Systems, Australia's largest defense and security company.
Speaker 2: University of Sydney formalized a relationship with tallis a French
Speaker 2: giant renowned for its guarded weapons.
Speaker 4: So the list just keeps.
Speaker 2: Going on and on and on, and in a way,
Speaker 2: it's an extension of the commercialization of the higher education sector,
Speaker 2: which has created tensions for a long time now between
Speaker 2: you know, what are the values of academic research and
Speaker 2: what are the values of the private sector, which are
Speaker 2: really the clash. Academic freedom has a clear stipulation that
Speaker 2: research needs to be transparent and findings are published basically
Speaker 2: so they can be replicated, whereas the private sector is
Speaker 2: founded on intellectual property, commercial and confidence. You know, those
Speaker 2: two sectors have always clashed. And now you've got this
Speaker 2: extra layer that's the military industry research sector, which is
Speaker 2: bound up in you know, national security measures. It's why
Speaker 2: there's this push and pull over transparency.
Speaker 3: And so then after these kind of negotiations between students
Speaker 3: and the universities, you know, University of Melbourne, take that
Speaker 3: as an exam. The UNI has agreed to more transparency.
Speaker 3: Is that a big deal?
Speaker 2: The Free Palestine movement saw it as a big deal.
Speaker 2: They saw it as a victory, and they packed up
Speaker 2: their encampment and left the campus. They released a statement
Speaker 2: saying that they would commit to additional disclosure of research.
Speaker 4: Grant arrangements, but they added, you.
Speaker 2: Know, a disclaimer saying disclosure is subject to confidentiality obligations,
Speaker 2: national security regulations and law, and the safety and security
Speaker 2: of our researchers. It's yet to be seen as to
Speaker 2: how much Melbourne University is actually going to disclose, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean a lot can be hidden underneath disclaimers like that.
Speaker 3: After the break how the orcsteal could turbocharge these partnerships.
Speaker 3: So and these relationships between the weapons industry and universities
Speaker 3: are pretty controversial. But just flip that for a moment
Speaker 3: and talk to me about why a country like Australia
Speaker 3: would want top researchers at universities involved in this.
Speaker 2: You know, having this really tight integration between the military
Speaker 2: and industry and academia, universities have a real tightrope to
Speaker 2: walk here.
Speaker 4: In terms of what it is that universities do.
Speaker 2: We've got the government creating a one hundred and twenty
Speaker 2: eight million dollar fund for four thousand places at sixteen
Speaker 2: universities which are connected to the August submarine program. So
Speaker 2: here why the emerate professor at ANU, he's basically probably
Speaker 2: one of the most foremost critics of AUCUST, and he
Speaker 2: says that if you know these previous defense strategies, if
Speaker 2: they've permeated university life, then he says that AUCUST is
Speaker 2: going to turbocharge it. So says that two things are
Speaker 2: happening simultaneously. The university sector and other elements of our
Speaker 2: research sector are being drawn more and more into forms
Speaker 2: of military related research, and AUCUS is a huge part
Speaker 2: of that. But it's also because of the way the
Speaker 2: strategic environment is evolving. Basically what we're now in in
Speaker 2: this new Cold War, Australia's positioned itself strongly in supporting
Speaker 2: the United States in maintaining dominance in East Asia and
Speaker 2: the West Pacific. There's a lot that's been said about
Speaker 2: AUGUST and the submarine program which has gone through a
Speaker 2: decade of mismanagement.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's a whole other story in itself.
Speaker 2: But if AUGUST is to succeed, we basically don't have
Speaker 2: an industry or a skill set to make it succeed.
Speaker 2: If AUCUST is going to be successful, the integration of
Speaker 2: military industry, government and academia to create this entirely new sector.
Speaker 2: Who White points to comments from the South Australian Premier
Speaker 2: Peter Melanaskis, who told attendees at a news corps defending
Speaker 2: Australia's summit that if August was going to succeed, it
Speaker 2: needed to fundamentally transform every aspect of national policy, from
Speaker 2: immigration to education. And as far as Hugh White's concerned,
Speaker 2: He's right, this is going to touch every part of
Speaker 2: our life, not just universities, and in universities, basically the
Speaker 2: relationship to the military world is going to become deeper
Speaker 2: and more extensive on one hand and more exclusive.
Speaker 4: On the other.
Speaker 2: So it's going to be a bigger part of the
Speaker 2: way they operate, a bigger source of money, and it's
Speaker 2: also controversially going to be a bigger constraint on what
Speaker 2: they do do.
Speaker 3: And so what's the government's role in deepening those relationships center.
Speaker 2: So in March this year, Parliament passed a Defense Trade
Speaker 2: Controls Amendment Act, which really alarmed the academic and scientific
Speaker 2: community basically because it creates this export license free environment
Speaker 2: between the Orcist partners which removes barriers to defense trade, research,
Speaker 2: collaboration and codevelopment.
Speaker 10: Now, the overriding purpose of this bill is, as the
Speaker 10: bill states, to strengthen Australia's national security and protect sensitive
Speaker 10: defense goods and technology by enhancing australis difference.
Speaker 2: So you have across the university sector research with individual
Speaker 2: foreigners and other nations have now become fraught. There are
Speaker 2: jail terms you know that are on the table now
Speaker 2: if researchers share expertise.
Speaker 4: And knowledge in a way which might threaten that arrangement.
Speaker 10: My view and that of the committees that the bill
Speaker 10: will support and strengthen the objectives of ORCIST partnership with
Speaker 10: the United States and the United Kingdom allow on for
Speaker 10: great opportunities for both industry and individuals engaging in regulated
Speaker 10: defense articles and services, as well as building a much
Speaker 10: more robust industrial base.
Speaker 2: And last year, a president of the Australian Academy of Science,
Speaker 2: Chenapatu Jagadish, expressed real serious reservations about the leisureslation's impact
Speaker 2: on scientific research in Australia especially.
Speaker 4: We're more than a third of the.
Speaker 2: Postgrade research students are from overseas, so basically many universities
Speaker 2: are sort of at their idealistic heart, a global enterprise
Speaker 2: where researchers and academics create bonds with utter nations and
Speaker 2: it's kind of like a soft diplomacy. So when you
Speaker 2: have this sort of military complex drawing in academia along
Speaker 2: with industry, I mean, basically what a lot of people
Speaker 2: are talking about is how it's binding us to certain
Speaker 2: countries and not to others.
Speaker 4: And there's a real worry about what that might do in.
Speaker 2: All sorts of sectors throughout Australian society.
Speaker 3: And it's fairly logical that weapons companies would want to
Speaker 3: be making the most of cutting air je academic reas,
Speaker 3: but are they involved in other parts of our education
Speaker 3: system too?
Speaker 2: So, I mean I've had these conversations with multiple people,
Speaker 2: like I spoke to Isaac Boval who is a member
Speaker 2: of Teachers and Students for Palestine, and he talks about
Speaker 2: it as been a real whitewashing campaign to have weapons
Speaker 2: companies in universities and to try and normalize the business
Speaker 2: that they do. And Isaac Bovo obviously agrees. He says,
Speaker 2: if you're making money off making weapons, you shouldn't be
Speaker 2: involved in delivering educational material. But what has also been
Speaker 2: revealed is that they're also in primary schools and high schools.
Speaker 2: These are companies like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Bae rafeon basically
Speaker 2: providing STEM curriculum applications such as Science Alive, First Lego League.
Speaker 2: It's pretty fascinating to see photos of children with their
Speaker 2: co Quest certificates standing in front of a Lockheed Martin banner.
Speaker 2: What these weapons companies say is that they're all about
Speaker 2: self defense, and every country has a right to self defense.
Speaker 2: It's a matter of what point does self defense become
Speaker 2: warmongering and what point does self defense become profit driven?
Speaker 2: And these are really deep complicated issues that we really
Speaker 2: need robust democratic conversation around. You know that it's taken
Speaker 2: a protest movement that has you know, been the butt
Speaker 2: of quite a lot of criticism to publicize these relationships.
Speaker 4: To be honest, that's not good enough.
Speaker 2: We should already have had a really large degree of
Speaker 2: transparency around them.
Speaker 3: And I thanks so much for your time today.
Speaker 4: That's all right, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3: Also in the news today. That's whether that Julian Ossange
Speaker 3: will ever publish confidential documents again. At a press conference yesterday,
Speaker 3: his wife Stella refused to give a definitive answer, saying
Speaker 3: that for now, Assange wants to taste real food and
Speaker 3: enjoy his freedom, but added she believed he would always
Speaker 3: defend human rights. Stella Assange held the press conference yesterday
Speaker 3: alongside MP's from the cross Bench and longtime supporters of
Speaker 3: Assange's cause. Before we go today as special note, for
Speaker 3: the past two and of it years, Scott Mitchell has
Speaker 3: been our editor here at seven Am, but today is
Speaker 3: his final show. He says, thanks for listening, love you all,
Speaker 3: but we have something to say to Scott's smart, his creative,
Speaker 3: he's full of energy, and he's also just a really
Speaker 3: good human. We've been so lucky to work with him.
Speaker 3: So from the entire team here, goodbye bye Scott, goodbye chief,
Speaker 3: see you Scott, Bye Scott, Bye Steve, I mean Scott
Speaker 3: brother Mitchell, goodbye and thank you. It's also my last
Speaker 3: show hosting seven Am and the biggest thanks to all
Speaker 3: of you for listening every weekday for the past few months.
Speaker 3: So special thanks to editor in chief Eric Jensen and
Speaker 3: editor Scott Mitchell for having me keep this seat warm.
Speaker 3: Next week your host will be a familiar voice, Rick
Speaker 3: Morton before Ruby Jones returns in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 3: Seven Am is a daily show from Schwartz Media and
Speaker 3: The Saturday Paper. It's produced by Kara Jensen, McKinnon, Shane
Speaker 3: Anderson and Zalton Fecho. Our senior producer is Chris Danngate.
Speaker 3: Our technical producer is Atticus Bastow.
Speaker 4: Our editor for the.
Speaker 3: Last time Scott Mitchell. Sarah mcvee is our head of audio.
Speaker 3: Eric Jensen is our editor in chief. Mixing by Travis
Speaker 3: Evans and Atticus Bastow. Our theme music is by Ned
Speaker 3: Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Portio. This is seven Am.
Speaker 3: I'm Ashlin McGhee. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 4: U