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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average person is

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Speaker 1: never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

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Speaker 1: When I speak the former cops on this podcast, we

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Speaker 1: normally talk about investigations, but that's not the conversation I

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Speaker 1: had today with former detective and whistleblow a Deborah Lock.

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Speaker 1: We spoke about corruption that flourished in the dark days

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Speaker 1: of New South Wales policing. Deborah gave a first hand

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Speaker 1: account of what it was like being exposed to corruption

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Speaker 1: and the misogynistic culture of a police force. Working as

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Speaker 1: a young female detective. She also talks about the cost

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Speaker 1: of speaking out against what she saw. Deborah's courage led

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Speaker 1: to the establishment of the Wood Royal Commission in the

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Speaker 1: corruption in New South Wales Police. I think you'll be

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Speaker 1: shocked when you hear about Deborah's time in the police

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Speaker 1: and her own personal story. Deborah Locke, thanks for coming

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Speaker 1: on I Catch Killers.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Garry, it's great to be here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's going to be an interesting chat. I'm

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Speaker 1: certain of that. And you joined the New South Wales

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Speaker 1: Police I think about twelve months before I did. And

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Speaker 1: you know, when you start in the police you have

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Speaker 1: no idea where that's going to take you.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I had a bit of an inkling coming

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Speaker 2: from the family I came from. Yeah, and I was

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Speaker 2: like in the last class at Redfern, which was a

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Speaker 2: different place because you would have been at Golden so

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Speaker 2: different different world.

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Speaker 1: It was well Golden, Yeah, that was that was a

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Speaker 1: changing changing of the guard there and the last sort

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Speaker 1: of class that came out of the Redfern that would

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Speaker 1: have been the last of the old old school. So

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Speaker 1: that's we're talking nineteen eighty four.

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Speaker 2: That's it.

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Speaker 1: And the fact that and I'm sure it was pointed

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Speaker 1: out to you at the academy and when you started

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Speaker 1: your female.

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Speaker 2: Oh much so. Yeah, we were told we were lower

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Speaker 2: than a police dog. You know, the police dog came

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Speaker 2: up before us.

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Speaker 1: Well, I suppose for people to understand, like it really

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Speaker 1: was just a changing, changing world. Like I'm talking eighty five.

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Speaker 1: Where I joined, I think we had affirmative actions. So

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Speaker 1: thirty percent females in the class of one hundred roughly.

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Speaker 2: But when you joined, oh, there was four in my class.

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Speaker 2: There was three classes, and there was three or four

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Speaker 2: girls in each of the three groups. And it was rough.

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Speaker 2: It was a hard place to get into because you

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Speaker 2: had to pass all the same exams as the men.

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Speaker 2: You had to be as fit as the men. You

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Speaker 2: had to be actually better to get to get in.

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Speaker 2: And I found it hard, like, I found it very hard.

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Speaker 2: And I we used to have to march. There was

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Speaker 2: a lot of marching.

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Speaker 1: I remember, before we understood that.

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Speaker 2: No, no, but there was a lot of marching. And

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Speaker 2: I remember I had to be as fit, and I'd

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Speaker 2: grown up on a farm and I was pretty fit.

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Speaker 2: But and I ran, and I ran, and I ran

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Speaker 2: before I got there. But I had this guy in

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Speaker 2: my class an Aboriginal guy, and he used to come

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Speaker 2: back and get me and go, come on, you can

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Speaker 2: do this and make it in the time it's not

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Speaker 2: and he got me through. He got me through, and

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Speaker 2: it was so sad because later on at the academy

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Speaker 2: they kicked him out on his spelling and this guy

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Speaker 2: would have been such an asset and he saved me.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't have passed my physical.

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Speaker 1: I remember that you just bought up. Reminded me of

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Speaker 1: the spelling test. That was a big thing. I never

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Speaker 1: thought i'd be. I should have paid more attention that

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Speaker 1: in the English class or whatever, spelling, but you'd be

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Speaker 1: practicing I'd be practicing it at.

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Speaker 2: Home and typing and the typing. I couldn't type.

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Speaker 1: Still traumatized by the typing. But anyway, we got through it.

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Speaker 1: But normally when we're on eye Catch Killers we talk

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Speaker 1: about the cases and all that. But I want to

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Speaker 1: get an understanding because your story is being quite quite dramatic.

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Speaker 1: What's happened to you in your period of time in

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Speaker 1: the police and for people that don't know you, just

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Speaker 1: up front, it was because of your actions and reporting

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Speaker 1: corrupt police and cultural issues, let's call it that. In

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Speaker 1: the nicest possible way that was instigated the Wood Royal Commission.

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Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, I and it's probably my autism. I kept going.

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Speaker 2: I'd read the policies and procedures and it said if

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Speaker 2: you saw corruption and you didn't say anything or do anything,

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Speaker 2: you would also be guilty of that offense. And the

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Speaker 2: stuff I saw going down, I was worried. I took

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Speaker 2: it literally. I thought, I'm going to go to jail

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Speaker 2: with these guys.

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Speaker 1: And look, I understand the culture. This is why it's

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Speaker 1: going to be an interesting chat because I know the

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Speaker 1: culture of what you went through, and I it was

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Speaker 1: tough times for anyone going through the police at that

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Speaker 1: particular time. From a Blake's point of view, it was

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Speaker 1: a damn side easier than the female's new recruits young

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Speaker 1: and the attitude that should you even be in the police.

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Speaker 1: There was a lot of opinion that way. I recently

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Speaker 1: had a forty year reunion and meeting up with some

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Speaker 1: of the class members, the ones that are still around,

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Speaker 1: and I looked at the lighthel I was going to say, girls,

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Speaker 1: the women that I joined the academy with, and I

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Speaker 1: remember they came through and they were fresh faced, and

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Speaker 1: they were nice, bright people, and I see them after

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Speaker 1: and total respect for them because the journey that they've

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Speaker 1: been on, the ones that have been in there a

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Speaker 1: long time. And I was having a chat to them

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Speaker 1: on the neither of the reunion and they just said,

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Speaker 1: you've got no idea what we went through as policewomen

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Speaker 1: in that era.

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Speaker 2: Police women got raped, police women got bashed. It was

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Speaker 2: I remember one police woman saying to me, oh, you know,

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Speaker 2: I have to give him a kiss before I get

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Speaker 2: out of the car on night shift, you know, And

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Speaker 2: that's part of the rules at outsight. I'm going really

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Speaker 2: liked did that rule come in? You know? But because

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Speaker 2: they were naive young girls, you know, nineteen and that era,

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Speaker 2: and what it happened was we go back to eighty two.

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Speaker 2: The women were wearing dresses and handbags and hats and

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Speaker 2: they were doing school lecturing and sexual assaults. That's all

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Speaker 2: police women did. And it wasn't until eighty two was

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Speaker 2: Christine Nixon. She had her father and uncle high up,

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Speaker 2: you know, deputy commissioners and that and a few other

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Speaker 2: handful of women that protests and said let us do

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Speaker 2: police work. We want to do police work, and they

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Speaker 2: allowed them to answer the phones at King's Cross and

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Speaker 2: lo and behold, they were shocked. The girls could do it,

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Speaker 2: they could do answer the phones. So then they brought

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Speaker 2: in collots which were like big long skirt pants. The

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Speaker 2: hats went, and the gloves went, and the handbags went,

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Speaker 2: and they land them on the street and all the

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Speaker 2: girls and eighty four when I went there, I went

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Speaker 2: to King's Cross, or North Sydney. I got Sydney and

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Speaker 2: I remember jumping a wooden fence, chasing a bloke who

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Speaker 2: was doing a broken inner. And I've jumped over the

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Speaker 2: fence and my big baggy collots have come over and

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Speaker 2: hooked over the top of the wooden parley and I'm

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Speaker 2: hung up and I'm just hanging on the fence and

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Speaker 2: I'm like waiting for someone to come. And the guys

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Speaker 2: had to pick me up and pull me up off

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Speaker 2: the fence, like that's how ridiculous the clothing was. That,

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Speaker 2: And then later as a detective, I remember wearing pencils,

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Speaker 2: straight skirts with high heels and a purse and trying

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Speaker 2: to chase people and it was just not a good look.

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Speaker 1: No, it was hard, hard, it was harrible. And look,

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Speaker 1: let's and I'm not going to ship bag all police

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Speaker 1: because there were some there was some true gentlemen in

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Speaker 1: there too, but there were some dinosaurs. Let's put them

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Speaker 1: at at the dinosaur well the uniform.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the old guys, like because what happened to

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Speaker 2: me why I ended up in court with them with

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Speaker 2: this sexual harassment and pregnancy discrimination was the old guys,

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Speaker 2: And they'd been dinosaurs, they'd been isolated in squads and that,

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Speaker 2: and what it used to be was if a woman

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Speaker 2: got engaged, she had to resign. And so I got

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Speaker 2: pregnant in ninety two and they went mental. I was

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Speaker 2: dragged in, I was thrown on a stool in a

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Speaker 2: kitchen and I was absolutely berated and yelled at and

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Speaker 2: told that what it's time to resign? Now you got

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Speaker 2: to resign, and I'm going no, no, no, it's all changed.

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Speaker 2: I can have children, and I can get married, and

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Speaker 2: I can stay on there.

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Speaker 1: What's this? What's this world? What's this world come to? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: It was just awful. I ended up having a miscarriage

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Speaker 2: over some of the treatment I had when I was pregnant. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I lost a baby girl, and it was totally through

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Speaker 2: vicious harassment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a downside. What was the excitement for you,

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Speaker 1: like before the world went skew if on your What

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Speaker 1: was the joy that you got from being a police

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Speaker 1: officer and what drove you to wanting to be a

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Speaker 1: police officer in the first place.

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Speaker 2: I came from a bit of a crazy fan.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about your family.

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Speaker 2: My family, and I think Irene my parents. Just as

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Speaker 2: a young girl back in those days, I had to

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Speaker 2: call him John and Irene. And Irene was the most

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Speaker 2: scariest person I ever met, you know, and I had

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Speaker 2: run ins with Roger Rogerson and I still.

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Speaker 1: She not scary as your mum.

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Speaker 2: She was good. And Irene had a hit list of

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Speaker 2: people she wanted to get yep. And my brother wanted

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Speaker 2: to join the police. He was eighteen or years older

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Speaker 2: than me. She'd had him at fourteen and he didn't

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Speaker 2: get in, and so she wanted me to join. And

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Speaker 2: she when I joined and I got in, I said

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Speaker 2: him going or Sydney on the streets and work, and

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Speaker 2: she was horrified. She was going, no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: you only do school lecturing and sexual assaults. I said, no,

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Speaker 2: it's all changed. And then she said, oh, you got

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Speaker 2: to got to go now you gotta leave. But I

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Speaker 2: had a juvenile record at eleven, coming from the femie

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Speaker 2: I came from, and I acted out and what I

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Speaker 2: thought was normal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And for people that don't underderstand the background of

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Speaker 1: your family, your parents were alcoholics and addicts and addicts,

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Speaker 1: and you had some colorful family family members. We've I

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Speaker 1: heard you talk somewhere that you said your grandfather rote Harley,

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Speaker 1: and you had a couple of uncles associated with the real.

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Speaker 2: Death, cousins that are patch wearing, and.

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Speaker 1: It was okay. And when we say wearing.

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Speaker 2: A colorful mold, it was like, I want to be

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Speaker 2: different to this lot. I don't want to you know.

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Speaker 2: I saw my grandparents. My grandparents were alcoholics, all four

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Speaker 2: of them. I saw them die from the disease, you know,

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Speaker 2: and they were mad. Both my grandfathers had been shot

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Speaker 2: at Gallipoli and they'd come back captain the drugs and

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Speaker 2: all the damage. And they used to call it shell

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Speaker 2: shocked and all that, but it was past dramatic stress.

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Speaker 2: Now they'd call it and an addiction. And I knew

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Speaker 2: that if I'd stayed in Glinori, I would have died.

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Speaker 2: I had to get out of Glinori because I'd seen

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Speaker 2: two generations die there and I was on the way out.

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Speaker 1: That was your tick. It away the police a better life.

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Speaker 1: Your first station, North Sydney. What was that like. Tell

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Speaker 1: us about your experiences there.

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Speaker 2: Well, at nor Cyney, I was in uniform, and the

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Speaker 2: uniform guys are heroes. They go out every day and

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Speaker 2: they don't know if they're going to come home. In

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Speaker 2: the academy, that's something they did say, and it was

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Speaker 2: to the men when you go off to start a shift,

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Speaker 2: they'd say, give your wife a kiss because you don't

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Speaker 2: know if you're going to come home. You want to

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Speaker 2: leave on good terms. You want it to be happy

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Speaker 2: and good, just in case something does happen. You know,

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Speaker 2: it does happen sometimes, and they're risking their life every day.

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Speaker 2: These guys and women are heroes on the street. Like

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Speaker 2: I've made a cop basher, yeah, you know, but I

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Speaker 2: came across some creepy people that were abusing their power.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And that was that was at times, wasn't.

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Speaker 2: It the time? So the cops and the crooks run

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Speaker 2: close to get there. There was this line and sometimes

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Speaker 2: there wasn't a line.

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Speaker 1: Even you it's hard isn't it. Because you're you're ignorant

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Speaker 1: to the way of the world, and you think, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is policing and that it's people all the way

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Speaker 1: up and you know why, And in detectives you get

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Speaker 1: exposed to it, exposed to it more. Why are we

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Speaker 1: meeting with this person that's an informant? And okay, the

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Speaker 1: informant what they buy us drinks? Do they and feeds

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Speaker 1: and feeds and the meals at the restaurants and that

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Speaker 1: sort of stuff. But you're thinking, okay, is this just

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Speaker 1: the way the world operates? So you sort of look

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Speaker 1: there with your white eyes initially and you're thinking, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that seems like you've crossed the line. But you made

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Speaker 1: reference there to uniform police, police men and women and

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Speaker 1: the general duties police. They are the ones at the

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Speaker 1: front line, aren't you? And the police because they literally

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Speaker 1: do not know what you're going to turn up to

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Speaker 1: every time you turn up to work. What was I

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Speaker 1: think a policing career can be very much shaped by

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Speaker 1: the person people that you're exposed to. First up, how

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Speaker 1: were the people that you had a buddy?

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Speaker 2: Had a buddy Sydney? Oh yeah, I had a great guy.

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Speaker 1: When I say, buddy, I'm not talking friends. But that's

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Speaker 1: what we call it in the cops. You get a

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Speaker 1: more senior person to look after you for the first six.

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Speaker 2: Weeks six yeah, yeah. And I had a buddy trainer,

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Speaker 2: and he didn't like women, and so they used him

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Speaker 2: for the women that came through because but he was good.

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Speaker 2: He was a good bloke because he wasn't trying to

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Speaker 2: hit on him. And every street and or syney, I

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Speaker 2: went into it, go what's street are we in now?

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Speaker 2: And I just stress from that. He was just like, going,

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Speaker 2: where are we where? What if I get shot there?

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Speaker 2: How are you going to call for assistance? He was

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Speaker 2: so hard and hounded, you know, and a bloke wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have got truated the way we didn't. And the women before,

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Speaker 2: the women after me, it was extra extra treatment to

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Speaker 2: try and break us because we were women. But this guy,

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Speaker 2: this guy was a good guy. He was a good cop.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well that's that's good. When you go past your buddy.

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Speaker 1: So you're working every shift with the person that's sort

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Speaker 1: of and it's acknowledge that you're learning. Then you get

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Speaker 1: out in the real world and you're on the truck

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Speaker 1: and you're driving around, you find out you're the senior

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Speaker 1: person on the shift and that because it was very

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Speaker 1: junior place. What was your experience there with the general

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Speaker 1: General Duties police, the type that you were mixing with

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Speaker 1: in North Sydney.

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Speaker 2: They were great, they were good. It was you know,

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Speaker 2: night shifts would be a cook up and you know,

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Speaker 2: you'd cook up. There be a few beers and drinks,

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Speaker 2: you know, but it was fun times in that era.

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Speaker 2: It was a different era. Yeah, yeah, the manual typewriters.

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Speaker 2: You didn't have the mobile phones, no Facebook, you know,

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Speaker 2: it was a different world, you know. And the detectives

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Speaker 2: were in an office that were very They came and

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Speaker 2: went in their suits and they they were a very

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Speaker 2: secret squirrel.

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Speaker 1: You'd never like if there's a young uniform officer. You'd

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Speaker 1: go into the tech his office and they'd be intimidating

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Speaker 1: because they'd be sitting there smoking, playing cards or whatever

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Speaker 1: and they just don't even look up when you're walking

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Speaker 1: and you're going to report something to them, and you

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Speaker 1: just yeah, it just seemed to be an attitude, didn't it.

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Speaker 2: It did, it did, And it's like I pulled a

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Speaker 2: guy off the Harbor Bridge. They put me up and

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Speaker 2: over and I'm over the barrier. Was suicide or yeah,

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Speaker 2: this guy had a bit of a running with his girl.

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Speaker 2: You know, we pull up. This guy's going to jump

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Speaker 2: over the harbor bridge. Yes, and harbor bridge. There was

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Speaker 2: a lot of it at that time. They didn't have

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Speaker 2: the arrows and lanes, and there was a lot of

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Speaker 2: head on accidents late at night, and they'd come over

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Speaker 2: the crest of the hill. But someone had called in

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Speaker 2: that this guy was upstanding near one of the pylons

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Speaker 2: on the other side of the fence. So my buddy trainer,

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Speaker 2: because he was very big and strong, pushed me up

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Speaker 2: and got me up and got me over the fence.

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Speaker 2: So I don't smoke. I've never smoked. Don't smoke a

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Speaker 2: cigarettes with this guy and going, yeah, all women are bitchers,

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Speaker 2: you know, they all do that. They all sleep with

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Speaker 2: your best smart you know, I don't worry, that's all right,

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Speaker 2: you know. And and he went and he went a

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Speaker 2: couple of times to push me, and then he went

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Speaker 2: a couple of times to jump himself. And because of

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Speaker 2: I'm a country girl, grew up on a farming life

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Speaker 2: and the old farmhouse and working on farms and that

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Speaker 2: and eventually talked him into coming back and they pulled

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Speaker 2: me up and they said, look beside, you're a girl.

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Speaker 2: Cliff Rescue was there and they didn't put a harness

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Speaker 2: on you. You could have died a few times. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So we're just going to keep this quiet and you're

335
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Speaker 2: just going, okay, yeah, but it is just another day

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Speaker 2: in the life. As a copy these stuff happens and

337
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Speaker 2: getting danger all the time.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's got that story, haven't They all got a whole

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Speaker 1: range of stories. You can sit down and speak to

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Speaker 1: any cop and if they've been out on the street,

341
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Speaker 1: then they've got stories. And you can't make this shit up.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, that's what That's what I was

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Speaker 2: saying earlier, Like I wrote my book and there's about

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Speaker 2: seventy thousand words and they're going, we can't print that.

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Speaker 2: It's on the public interest. We can't. You know, that's unprintable.

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Speaker 2: When I'm going, but it happened, and they're going, yeah,

347
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Speaker 2: but we just don't need to put it in print.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was reading your book and very early in

349
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Speaker 1: your book you you found love in a way at

350
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Speaker 1: North Sydney. But the person without naming names because I'm

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Speaker 1: sure we can't get past this had a predisposition for

352
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Speaker 1: wearing your panties under his lay Sundays under his uniform. Now, look,

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Speaker 1: I think you've been unfair that like each each more.

354
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Speaker 2: I could have written about that each.

355
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Speaker 1: To his own, but needless to say that relationship didn't

356
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Speaker 1: work out, That didn't work out.

357
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Speaker 2: That was heartbroken. Yeah, I was heartbroken, you know. But

358
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Speaker 2: Iron and John were happy because they wanted me to

359
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Speaker 2: stay at home and sit on the rand and drink.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's that's a common theme that you were dealing

361
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Speaker 1: with throughout your policing career. That because your parents were alcoholics,

362
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Speaker 1: they were you were virtually raising them, and I picked that. Yeah.

363
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Speaker 1: Most people saying I've got kids to look after, you're

364
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,960
Speaker 1: saying they've got parents to look after. And yeah, when

365
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,800
Speaker 1: you look back at it, that's not the relationship you

366
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Speaker 1: want with parents. You want parents there supporting you, not

367
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Speaker 1: you supporting them. But full credit to you that you're

368
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:12,399
Speaker 1: hung in there with them.

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Speaker 2: Ah. They were hard work. Yeah, they were naughty children,

370
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Speaker 2: and they would ring me all the time and they

371
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,720
Speaker 2: would just drive me nuts. And every time you went

372
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Speaker 2: home you'd feel sick because you're driving up the rain

373
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Speaker 2: you don't know if they're it's going to be blood.

374
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Speaker 2: You've got to get them to the hospital. Like they

375
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,840
Speaker 2: were very violent, they'd punch on all the time. So

376
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,439
Speaker 2: they hated each other like they hated each other, but

377
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Speaker 2: they loved it. They were codependent. They were just stuck.

378
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Speaker 1: It was toxic. Well she was.

379
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Speaker 2: Fourteen and when she had to go and run in

380
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Speaker 2: and marry him and she hated him.

381
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Speaker 1: You're at North Sydney, You've got an opportunity to do

382
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,919
Speaker 1: the three months to comment to King's Cross drug squad

383
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,199
Speaker 1: and just explain what that role is. And it was

384
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Speaker 1: offered to all of us when we're in your police

385
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,080
Speaker 1: going up to King's Cross around those that mid eighties.

386
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:09,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I wasn't they'd pick they'd pick people and yeah,

387
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,959
Speaker 2: like you know, but I went up there and there

388
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 2: was a lot of walking around the streets, a lot

389
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,000
Speaker 2: of you'd have the junkies with the syringes in the morning.

390
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 2: You have the kids going to school'd be treading on

391
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 2: noedles and that to crush them. There wasn't a lot

392
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,280
Speaker 2: of drinking At the Bourbon and Beef Steak Friday afternoon,

393
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,239
Speaker 2: they'd put on fish cocktails.

394
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Speaker 1: And I thought you said there wasn't a lot of drinking.

395
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Speaker 1: That's why I was laughing.

396
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,639
Speaker 2: There was a lot of a lot of drink and

397
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Speaker 2: done and just walking around. There wasn't many arrests. It

398
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 2: was just a bit of a token gesture.

399
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 1: It was a bit frustrating, like I, because it's not

400
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 1: it's not hard to arrest someone that King's Cross in

401
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,360
Speaker 1: the eighties for drugs.

402
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:48,920
Speaker 2: And a few times I did just drag people back,

403
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 2: so yeah, and they just it was just like a nuisance.

404
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,119
Speaker 2: It was interesting times, it really was. And all the

405
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,640
Speaker 2: characters were in the detective's office. We were downstairs and

406
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,640
Speaker 2: it was playing clothes. But it was an opportunity I

407
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,359
Speaker 2: got where I was drinking one night, there was a

408
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,359
Speaker 2: lot of drinking going on and I had this old

409
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 2: two old guys in front of me, and one was

410
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 2: from highway patrol and one was from detectives, and they

411
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:13,639
Speaker 2: were saying to me, where do you want to go?

412
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,840
Speaker 2: Debit you want to go? And the highway patrol guy

413
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 2: seemed a lot nicer and he was just going, look,

414
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,879
Speaker 2: come with us, come higher patrol. And I ended up

415
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:23,640
Speaker 2: doing my high speed later on when I was doing

416
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,200
Speaker 2: some violance, but what I thought was, well, I won't

417
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 2: be able to drink and I'll probably I'm a ship driver.

418
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 2: I'm going to wrap yourself around a tree. Detectives. It

419
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 2: was a gaming squad, right. I got offered a guernsey too,

420
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 2: and I was go, this is fun. They give you

421
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 2: a car, you know, they give you lots of traveling money,

422
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,640
Speaker 2: they give you drinking money. Every Wednesday and Saturday we'd

423
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 2: line up for tax free money cash and we had

424
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 2: to do three pubs on a wednesdaysday and look for

425
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 2: cockatoos and sp bookings.

426
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,120
Speaker 1: And okay, that was the role.

427
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 2: That was the job. And I'm going, oh, I wrapped

428
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,640
Speaker 2: myself around a tree or go sit in pubs and drink.

429
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,920
Speaker 2: And at the gaming squad, I got to do the

430
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 2: male strip shows. If the men showed their care, I

431
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 2: was like it was like heaven, Like what a job.

432
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: And you think, at that particular point in time, you

433
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 1: think you're doing this is what police have to do.

434
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,479
Speaker 1: We've got to stamp out on this male strippers. If

435
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,400
Speaker 1: they're showing, someone's got someone's got to report it.

436
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 2: Someone's got to do it. Ride it on the coaster.

437
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 2: The boys would be out in the car in the

438
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:32,679
Speaker 2: car park. I'd go the cowboy, the astronaut, the policeman, astronaut,

439
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,639
Speaker 2: off your astronauts and did they show paper care or not?

440
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 2: And I got paid for it.

441
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 1: It was great, So you got you. It was a

442
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 1: couch fun, drinking and money. Yeah. Did you get a

443
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,719
Speaker 1: sense at that particular point in time that this is

444
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 1: steering in the wrong way?

445
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 2: Well, what'sn't good? It was a big offers and I

446
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 2: was the only girl.

447
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: How many, how many? How many people? So this is

448
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 1: the gaming squad sixty yep, yep.

449
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 2: There was a surveillance team of five and there was

450
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 2: one girl in there. So I'm in a group with

451
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,439
Speaker 2: sixty men and an office somewhere and they are in

452
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 2: groups of like six or seven. There'd be one lockdown

453
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 2: at Chinatown eating lobster and that, and they'd be games

454
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,159
Speaker 2: going on upstairs, because at that time the casino was

455
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 2: shut and the government wasn't getting money from gaming, and

456
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 2: what it was if you had more than eight people

457
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,679
Speaker 2: in the room, it was an offense. So if you

458
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 2: were downstairs eating lobster and drinking and games still going

459
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 2: on upstairs, if you go up and then oh we're

460
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 2: going to go up now, oh there's only eight people. Okay,

461
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 2: this is legal, and so obviously the government makes a

462
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 2: lot of money, like they built Star Casino. So we

463
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 2: had the Chinese mob and then we had the Greek mob,

464
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 2: the same thing. You know, I had a lot of

465
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 2: lamb and then you know, they was it was all

466
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 2: these little groups and sections and it was a time

467
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 2: where there was a lot of money changing in hands.

468
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 2: It wasn't many arrests. I remember one time doing a raid.

469
00:22:58,359 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 2: Every time we did a raid, they knew what coming,

470
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 2: but the cops there was cops taken quids.

471
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 1: Someone would be So if you're an illegal gaming house

472
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: or whatever, you've got a raid planned, but by the

473
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: time you get there, everything shut down or no one's there,

474
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 1: or someone's been tipped off. Is that what you're saying.

475
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 2: They knew, Like it got to the point where when

476
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 2: we were doing raids, they would lock us in the

477
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,479
Speaker 2: office and they wouldn't tell us we were going home,

478
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 2: and people would be going, I got to tell me, missus,

479
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,360
Speaker 2: I'm not own fatigue, and they go, no, no, no.

480
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 2: They were trying to make a series.

481
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 1: So there were people in there in that squad. Like

482
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: we talk about the of that how do we call

483
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 1: them Alarikans worse than Alaricans. But there were genuine people

484
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: in there in the squad trying to make a difference.

485
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a few. And that's the trouble. If

486
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 2: you don't go with the flow, you're ostracized.

487
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: And it's okay, that's that's the thing. And that's where

488
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,719
Speaker 1: it gets hard, isn't it. Where I look at a

489
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 1: lot of what I saw in police and I just

490
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: think it's such a waste of time what's being done here,

491
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: and it's frustrating. And as you said, you're getting paid,

492
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: you just sit there drinking, so that that's to night

493
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: you sit drinking, drinking in the public club or whatever.

494
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: What have we actually achieved?

495
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 2: There's been money changing hands behind because the stuff going

496
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 2: on like that, people.

497
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: And you wouldn't have been introduced to that straight up.

498
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 1: I would imagine they would.

499
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 2: My first day they said, look, we're doing a job

500
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 2: in Queensland. We're going we've got to take telecom with us.

501
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 2: We've got to make this look good, look at legit.

502
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 2: It was a bullshit like no, no, no. It was

503
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 2: like because of my personality, because I was a drinker

504
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: and the family I came from. People went, oh, she's cool,

505
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 2: she's all right, And I don't think they knew.

506
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 1: What that's interesting.

507
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 2: I was in that first wave of female detectives and

508
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 2: I've got autism. I don't think they knew how to

509
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 2: take me, you know.

510
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 1: But they would have thought, you're one of the boys.

511
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 2: And I tried so hard to be one of the boys.

512
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 2: I swore as good as the boys. I swung a

513
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 2: punch as good as the boys, you know. I drank

514
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 2: better than the boys. But they all knew I wouldn't

515
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 2: take quits. I had money put my hand, and I

516
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: just now, I drink and eat, and I think, well,

517
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 2: that's not against the law, and it's And I've never

518
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 2: said I didn't. I've always been very upfront and honest.

519
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 2: But even in the wood Role Commission, they got people

520
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 2: in the box I gave evidence against and they said,

521
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 2: did she ever take a dollar?

522
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: And they said, no, Well my observation of it. And

523
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: I was involved in that world like the same times,

524
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: the same era, of the same lot. The people that

525
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: were taking the money, they had their pockets that kept it,

526
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: kept it to themselves, and then the other ones are

527
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: just left alone. Do you do you carry the office.

528
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 2: Carry the office.

529
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: From your personal point of view, when did you start

530
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 1: to gets because I know it can be quite alluring

531
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: where you're not actually working. You're just going away with

532
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: pockets full of ta money and you're drinking and all that,

533
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: and it's a great time and yeah, a trip away

534
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 1: and okay, so we get to a we get paid

535
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: and this is this is it job. But did it

536
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: get to a point where you got sick of it?

537
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: Like because it's my numbing, isn't it?

538
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 2: Well, it was terrible just every time the jobs had

539
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 2: fall over and I got moved. It was physically dangerous

540
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 2: for me to be on that floor with all those

541
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 2: drunken men, and I got moved into the surveillance team.

542
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 1: When you say it was dangerous for what.

543
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 2: Be drinking with men all the time, you get and

544
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: touched up and they want to take you back to

545
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 2: their house and all this like it a young girl

546
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 2: with heap of drunken coppers.

547
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: Again, I balance it out because I've met more good

548
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: people who I've met bad people. You might have a

549
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: different take on it in the cops, but there's some

550
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: blokes that are just it is, yeah, and intoxicated by

551
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: the power that comes with having the authority of a

552
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: police officer, and then in an insulated world that would

553
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: think it's appropriate and they think that God's gift to

554
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 1: women and hit on them. What an idiot you are.

555
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: But yeah, so, and there's a way to deal with it.

556
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: And I know a lot of police policewomen in different

557
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: ways of dealing with it. And you know, I think

558
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: perhaps because if your upbringing you had the robustness to

559
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 1: piss off dickhead, not.

560
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: That they wouldn't take it, well, some of them, and

561
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 2: then they'd be very vindictive and nasty. How do you

562
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 2: knock me back? And you know I had it and

563
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: a few idiots that were very nasty.

564
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: And then and you know what we're talking about here

565
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: is someone hitting on you for sexual favors or whatever

566
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: you want to call it at work and you knock

567
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: them back. So all of a sudden, you're you're working

568
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: the ship shifts and or put on the.

569
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 2: Dud jobs, or driving in front of a mac truck.

570
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: Tell us about that without naming naming names, but just.

571
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 2: To change your names to prevent, prevent, protect the guilty,

572
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: I'll try. But in a five car follow.

573
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: This is when you're in some conflict with with an

574
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: officer with an officer said his feelings, yeap, and what happened?

575
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: You take it?

576
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 2: Well, I have the radio, Like we're in traffic going

577
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 2: going down these.

578
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: Hills and you're in a surveillance team, So just explain

579
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: the listener in the surveillance team. You might be traveling

580
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: one out in the vehicle and you've got the radio

581
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 1: on the back channel, so only your team's hearing what's

582
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 1: going on, and the.

583
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: Radio is in your glove box. It's all hidden. Like

584
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 2: these are surveillance cars. They're not mark police cars where

585
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 2: to do a follow. You're following someone and there'll be

586
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 2: a car behind that car, maybe one or two car cover. Yeah,

587
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 2: you know, but they're keeping an eye on this car

588
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 2: that you're following, and you'll have four cars behind and

589
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 2: then they'll keep changing position. Yeah, so that every time

590
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: the person we're watching looks in the mirror, it's a

591
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: different car behind them, so they don't think they're being followed.

592
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 2: I mean some of these people that do any surveillance

593
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 2: and they go and park under trees or they chuck

594
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 2: UI's in one way streets and you know, because they

595
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 2: knew they were heading to somewhere they should.

596
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: In that day too, it was very much physical. There's

597
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: no electronic surveillance, so it was all eyeb.

598
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, follow on following the car, and I get this

599
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: message over the radio, go now. So I pull out

600
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 2: and I look and all I could see is the

601
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 2: great of a big Mac truck, and I shut my

602
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: eyes and I pulled back in, and I don't know

603
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 2: how he didn't hit me. I don't know how. I'm

604
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 2: not dead, and I've still got post traumatic stress from

605
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: trying to overtake trucks. The big trucks still get me

606
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 2: because I don't know what he did not to hit me,

607
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 2: because I was that close to his grill. I don't know.

608
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: He must have swerved, I swerved. How we missed, I

609
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: don't know. And one of the other guys in the

610
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 2: team saw it, and he came out of the radio

611
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: and he said, what the hell you do? Why did

612
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 2: that happen?

613
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: Why?

614
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: Just sad that? And the guy in question went, oh,

615
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 2: I said, don't go now now, you would never just

616
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: out of the blue, just go, don't go down. He goes, Oh,

617
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 2: the radio must have cut out, and the don't now

618
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 2: we're driving along. Yeah, he just said, go, Now, that

619
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: was he's a sick individual like that sort of behavior

620
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: and that he's frightening.

621
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: That was someone that had you had knocked back his approaches.

622
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 2: To Yeah, it wasn't interested in married men, right, So

623
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: that was the treatment I got, Like, it's scary, you know,

624
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 2: it is awful that there are some unwell people with guns.

625
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: Okay, we've got you at the gaming squad. When there

626
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: was someone that you had said something about you about

627
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: the work, the fact that nothing was, no one was

628
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: getting locked up. You were spending a lot of time

629
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: drinking your way on jobs that didn't really play out,

630
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: and just it sounded like party party central and you

631
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: started to winge about that, and that wasn't very well received.

632
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 2: It wasn't well received. But what happened too was I

633
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 2: was studying. I was told to improve my career. Yeah,

634
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 2: gardi uni, you know, as I went to Bathist and

635
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 2: I guess that was another two weeks a year that

636
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 2: I'd be drinking down at the rafters bar at Bathists

637
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 2: if you who knows that, you know, but you know,

638
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: I was studying, I was doing I was looking after

639
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 2: Iron and John I was, you know, and my drinking

640
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 2: problems became all my life was so shitty and I

641
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 2: was drinking way over what I should have been. And anyway,

642
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: I was away studying and I had my own surveilance car.

643
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 2: And so a couple of the officers were brought in

644
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 2: from the floor and they were away on a job

645
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: and they were chasing an sp bookie and it ended

646
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: up with twenty thousand dollars in the boot in my car,

647
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: you know. And Kimball Cook and Tracy Hall and John

648
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 2: deec and this is all very double size and documented

649
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 2: so I can say their names. And Kimball had come

650
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 2: from the radio section. I don't know I was going

651
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 2: on there. He was at the radio section and he'd

652
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: come back to the gaming squad and he'd taken over

653
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 2: the sabileance team. One of the guys, Frank he used

654
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 2: to work with, has come to him and said, look,

655
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 2: we've got twenty thousand Deb's car. We'll split it up.

656
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 2: And kim was worried, is this like a setup? You know,

657
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 2: they're going to get me, And so he didn't He

658
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: didn't know what police to go. He didn't feel safe

659
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 2: going to any police. So what he did was he

660
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: went to the highway patrol and said we're going to

661
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 2: lock up. We're going to arrest this sergeant you know,

662
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 2: in his mate. And it was unheard of, like in

663
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 2: those times for a cop to lock up a cop.

664
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: So okay, So the twenty thousand dollars came from a

665
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: job on the sp booking. Okay, so how the money

666
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: got there? That was in the car while you were

667
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: away studying in the car that was allocated to you.

668
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: And then Kimball Cook found out about it and he

669
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: didn't know how he was offered a share of the money, right,

670
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: and he thought that it was a test still set up.

671
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 2: No, he didn't know. He was just like, what do

672
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 2: I do? It was a horrible situation. Yeah, you know,

673
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 2: no one should have to do that. And so he

674
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: went to the higher patrol. He had to get the

675
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: highway patrol to help him lock him up. The next day,

676
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: I rock in and everyone's just traumatized. Everyone's rocking, and

677
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 2: you know, and the next thing you know, the little

678
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: surveillance team people are drawing pictures, are going to kill us,

679
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 2: They're going to get us. They're having discussions.

680
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: A right, So okay, just so I understand it, But

681
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: you've got the gaming squad, the investigators, and then you've

682
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: got the surveillance team room on the side. And Kimball

683
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: Cook was in the surveillance team. He was running the

684
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: surveillance team. And he'd given up people that were in.

685
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 2: The on the floor that had come to help with

686
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: the job of the undercoverage. Okay, so doing thellance.

687
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: So the majority of the people or not not majority,

688
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: but people within the on the floor at the gaming

689
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: squad were giving it to you guys in the surveillance squad.

690
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 2: It was dangerous. We were all scared, ye, And it

691
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 2: was a horrible situation. It was just ridiculous. And I

692
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 2: got an overnight transfer. I said, I can't and even

693
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: though I wasn't even there or part of it, Yeah,

694
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 2: I was just tired with the same brush. It was

695
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 2: my car and so I'm in on it. And so

696
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: the boss of the gaming squad said, look, you live

697
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: out at Glory, will put you at Paramatter. Had an

698
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: overnight transfer for my physical safety from other police to Paramatter.

699
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: But by the time I got to Paramatter, they already

700
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: knew who I was, what had happened, and I was

701
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 2: classified as a dog and a whistleblower, and well you know,

702
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: I got a desirable person.

703
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: I can buy into that because always and we're going

704
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: back a very long time. But I remember the first

705
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: time I remember your name. I was at the techning's

706
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: office and it was got to watch out for her,

707
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: got to watch out for her.

708
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: I was honest, what a terrible thing.

709
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 1: No, well that you did have. People were pretty warned

710
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: about you.

711
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: Everyone. It was absolutely ridiculous and yet still my first

712
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 2: job at Paramatta with the partner I got, said we're

713
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 2: gonna go do a breaking enna, and I thought okay.

714
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 2: So we went off in the car and he do

715
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 2: real police. I thought, oh, here we garment the detective's office.

716
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 2: But we really were going to do a break and Enna.

717
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 2: So you know, it was like it was like I'm going, oh, no,

718
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 2: nothing's changed. Actually, Paramatta, like the Gaming Squad was like

719
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 2: a circus, but Paramatta was a different ballgame. Like, you know,

720
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 2: we're drinking with Roger Rogerson, We're hanging out with Roger,

721
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 2: We're hanging out with Louis by Billy Bayer, Lenny McPherson,

722
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 2: like all the big gangsters of the time were associating

723
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: with certain members of the Paramatta Detective's office.

724
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: You know, when you met Roger? What was what was

725
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: he like?

726
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 2: Ah? Look, Rogers was a very intelligent man in charismic

727
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 2: was life at the party, play piano and he held

728
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 2: court and you know everyone, they'd all suck up to him.

729
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 2: They'd all want to be at the Chinese restaurants and

730
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 2: sitting around the table, and you know, and it was

731
00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 2: fun times, you know.

732
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: And look, it seems ridiculous now you look back and

733
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: where's the cameras? But at the start, you think, Jesus,

734
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: is this how they operate at this level? Because you

735
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 1: felt like you're.

736
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 2: Stepping up to a level and detect his office.

737
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: Now now people might might say, okay, well you should

738
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: have stood up and said that if you address that

739
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: right from the start, no one would listen to you.

740
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: Something would happen to you and you would be It's

741
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: a difficult world to understand, but I understand it because

742
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: I was in that world. I know you had to

743
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: navigate your way through and make sure you didn't compromise yourself.

744
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 2: As a woman.

745
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: You know, Well, that makes it so much, so much harder.

746
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 2: And Lenny k why I went to the commissioner, Why

747
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 2: I went to laur and got told I was a whistlebler.

748
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 2: We were at the park Rule at Paramatta and Lenny

749
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 2: McPherson's there and there's drinks going on that and I

750
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 2: was pulled out the back and this officer goes me,

751
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: you know, just it was a paper gun licen. I

752
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 2: don't know what the hell it was all about. Lenny

753
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,919
Speaker 2: wanted a gun license for his wife. I still today,

754
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 2: I don't know what that was all about. And when

755
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,879
Speaker 2: I've seen McPherson and I've seen Glades, and they're going

756
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 2: go to Glades for a police station and just go

757
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: and I'm going, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing

758
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 2: I'm hanging on to the piece of paper so your

759
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 2: fingerprints are on it, and and then I we'll give

760
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 2: you money. And they kept offering more money.

761
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,720
Speaker 1: They wanted you to go there and pretend you're Lenny

762
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: mcperson's wife and make application or something.

763
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 2: It was all insane, like it never made sense. It

764
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 2: was ridiculous. Everyone I know who lennymickperson's wife was at

765
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 2: the time, a second wife, and this is nuts. But

766
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 2: what it was. I went. They got me like because

767
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: I because my fingerprints were on that piece of paper.

768
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 2: And that's why I went, because I kept saying, don't

769
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 2: drag me into your stuff. Don't you know I'm here

770
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 2: to drinking, I'm eating. This is all part of the culture.

771
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 2: But I'm not doing anything because I valued being a cop.

772
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: I loved my job.

773
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 2: I worked hard to get there, you know, I was studying,

774
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 2: I was you know, I thought I had a career

775
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 2: path that was going to go on and that i'd

776
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 2: still with it. And and that's what happens with whistleblow

777
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: and you're back a complaining against someone, your career is over,

778
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 2: you're ostracized, and they get promoted, Like how does that work?

779
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: I don't get it right.

780
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 2: And it's not just in the cops. It's in any

781
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 2: large bureaucracy, you know. And it comes from the top,

782
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 2: you know. And when you when you had a commissioner

783
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 2: likening Tony Lauer, you know, the culture was encouraged.

784
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: You make an interesting point that when your fingerprints were

785
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: on that that document, because I had me, I navigated

786
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: the way through. Because once he got you, they got you.

787
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 2: And one dollar if you took one dollar your stuff,

788
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 2: whatever they're doing, you're part of. And that was like

789
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 2: the money under the bed, like Chuckles knew not to

790
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 2: touch it. Because once they if he'd taken any every

791
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 2: job he did, he'd have to take. It's one in.

792
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: All in, I had enough street awareness that yeah, if

793
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: they've got you once, they've got yeah. So that's where

794
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: it was difficult navigating. I feel sorry for some people

795
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: and not a lot of people that have been caught

796
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: out with the corruption. But I saw what I would

797
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: consider weak people that were influenced by more powerful characters,

798
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 1: because some of them were very charismatic. There were influenced.

799
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 1: You know, they're the big and they got this awesome

800
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 1: reputation or supposed reputation, and you think, wow. And I

801
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: saw some people fall foul of the Royal Commission and

802
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 1: flowing on from there that I think, we're just weak

803
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: people that couldn't push themselves away from it or stand

804
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: away from it. They were intimidating into just complying with

805
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:41,479
Speaker 1: the boys.

806
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 2: Clay, they're sheep, yeah, and they're scared and we've got

807
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 2: to fit in. And they would pick their marks, you know,

808
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 2: and they were the ones that go around and run

809
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 2: around and do it, and so you know, and that

810
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 2: that concept too. When the Royal Commission happened, I ran

811
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 2: around with John Hatton and I went to some people

812
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 2: and go, you know what's going you know what's going on.

813
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 2: I did eight stack decks. He at Parliament House after midnight,

814
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 2: got the wood Raw Commission. I was the ONNY officer

815
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 2: that was prepared to sign a stat deck saying there

816
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 2: was current police corruption. We flew on a little plane

817
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 2: to Canberra. We went everywhere and be tribal is a

818
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 2: sign up for it, just to.

819
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: Back me up.

820
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 2: And they all went, oh, I've got a wife, I've

821
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 2: got a mortgage. They're going to get me. They're going

822
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 2: to They were spineless and disgusting like that. They stood

823
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 2: around and watched it all. And I think it's and

824
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 2: I believe with that policy if you watch this stuff

825
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 2: and don't say anything or let it keep going, but

826
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: to not back up and stand up when it counted.

827
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 2: And Hatton doesn't get acknowledged a much what he did.

828
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: Like he was a crusader and he had the crusade

829
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: for a long time. We're talking at the state politician

830
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: trying to get this inquiry into New South Wales police.

831
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: I look, I've been out of the cops now six years.

832
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,959
Speaker 1: It has changed and it's changed, and we'll talk about

833
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: why it's changed, and a big part of it's change

834
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: because of the courage that you have shown. But there's

835
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: still the boys club. There's still and I think I

836
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 1: get frustrated with people that didn't work and that mine.

837
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I, we're just doing this, We're doing surveillance.

838
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: You've been doing surveillance on that house for the past

839
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: ten months and you haven't seen anything. How about we

840
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: do some police work. Yeah, And that still still goes on.

841
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: And there's the hard workers, and there's the boys. And

842
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: I saw people that got it. I have issues with

843
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 1: someone and I'd get but he's a good blake. But

844
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: he's a good blake.

845
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 2: It wouldn't be a good girl, like a good sheerer.

846
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 2: It's always a good bloke.

847
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: But a good blake. Oh No, he's okay, he's a

848
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: good blake. And I got so fucking sick of hearing that. No,

849
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: he's lazy, he's not doing his work, he's incompetent. Wouldn'trust

850
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: him as far as I throw him. But he's a

851
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: good blake. Yeah, And is that that culture is still there? Sadly?

852
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 2: Oh sorry to hear that.

853
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but look at Paramatta, what what was

854
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: the genesis for you leaving Paramotunta what happened.

855
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 2: Because I was because because of that getting back to

856
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 2: that gun license for Lennie, and I'd had some interesting

857
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 2: times with Roger and Louis Bayer and that. But because

858
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 2: I went to Laoa to Tony Lauer and they knew

859
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,439
Speaker 2: that I'd put him in the parameded Detective's office before

860
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:26,240
Speaker 2: I even got back.

861
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: To how did you get how did you get an

862
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: audience with Tony Lauer? Because he would have been deputy

863
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 1: commissioner at the time.

864
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 2: When I ended up. I went to go to the

865
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 2: commissioner and then they said that he was about to

866
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 2: retire and Tony Lauer was going to be the new commissioner.

867
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 2: See him. We met in a corridor doorway very cloak

868
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 2: and Daggers, and he just looked at me with his

869
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 2: disgust and said, you don't know what a detective is.

870
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: You know, I was a detective at the time, and

871
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 2: he said to me, you're a whistleblower. And I'd never

872
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 2: heard that term before, and it took a lot for

873
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 2: me to build up I'm speaking to the new commissioner

874
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: that's coming through. No, he obviously knew he was going

875
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 2: to be a commissioner, but no one else had you know,

876
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: nothing else had been said publicly before that, And sure

877
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 2: enough he did soon after that become commissioner. And I

878
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 2: got up my courage and I bravely said to him,

879
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 2: what's a whistleblow? And I was sort of debating. I'm

880
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 2: standing there and shot going, you know, I better ask

881
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 2: him because I don't even know what I am, but

882
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 2: it sounded like a really bad thing. And he looked

883
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 2: at me with disgust and said, you know that's cops

884
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 2: who dubbin cops. Because I very quickly learnt what a

885
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 2: whistleblow was, because once you get marked, your career is.

886
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 2: I didn't know my career was over. You didn't no

887
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 2: right once I was told I was a whistleblower, and

888
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 2: what they did for my safety at Parramatta they put

889
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 2: me with Michael Drury right now. Michael Drew had been

890
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 2: shot in eighty four, was the year I joined in

891
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: front of his wife, Pam and kids at Chatswood.

892
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think most people listening would have heard

893
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: the Michael jury story that he was an undercover cop

894
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 1: and he was shot at his home, fairly significant injuries.

895
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: I remember seeing the seeing the injuries that he had.

896
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: But on these dying deathbed he said that the bribe

897
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: was offered to him by Roger Rogerson the game cold

898
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 1: on the case or something along those lines. Anyway, it's

899
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: played out. That's part of folklore in the in Sydney

900
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 1: Underworld situation. After that Mick got he still stayed in

901
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: the cops. He reported that there was trials and all

902
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: sorts of things, and you've gone to see Lao and

903
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 1: he steered you towards Mick Drury Is that's how it

904
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: played out.

905
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,479
Speaker 2: Well. I think eternaler fees. I think they were getting

906
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 2: worried that they were going to get me at Parramatta, right,

907
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,919
Speaker 2: And Mick was working out of an old the old

908
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 2: hat factory. It was an old police building. It had

909
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: horrible it's a creepy place. They had a security guard.

910
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 1: There's a creepy place.

911
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 2: It's a creepy place. And I said, oh, there's a

912
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 2: lot of history. There was a copper that was going

913
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 2: to speak out against the abortion squad in the seventies

914
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 2: and he got shot sitting on the toilet. And I

915
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 2: got told a few times that was going to happen

916
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 2: to me, you know, shoot mysel yeah, shoot myself on

917
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 2: the head while I'm sitting on the toilet. And but

918
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 2: Mick was working on these got your cars and Ted

919
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:20,399
Speaker 2: Pickering was the police minister.

920
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: Just to keep it in context, your paramatter is getting

921
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: too hot for you there because I.

922
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 2: Was scared for my safety and from the detectives in

923
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:28,720
Speaker 2: the office.

924
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 1: What sort of things were said to you at paramatter that?

925
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: Was it subtle or was it.

926
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: It's more like you're going to disappear, bitch, like you know,

927
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 2: you're going to play for what you're doing.

928
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: How did you interpret that?

929
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 2: I took it that, you know, after Mick, I didn't

930
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 2: like they They were pretty angry. They were pretty they

931
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 2: were pretty damn angry with me, and they and they

932
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 2: I think they knew I was. There was conversations had

933
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,399
Speaker 2: about me disappearing and that was the thing they'd had

934
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 2: the trouble with.

935
00:45:59,680 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: Me.

936
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: They did the murder movie Blue Murder, and he'd been

937
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 2: shot and that ended up he'd made a die in

938
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 2: declaration about Roger, and so if he died, Yeah, you know,

939
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 2: maybe a few other people would still be alive. You know,

940
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: Roger would have been done for that, and Sally and

941
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 2: huckstepl that I saw her just before they killed her.

942
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, she came in the was at King's Cross police station. Yeah,

943
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: speaking to the day or the day she disappeared.

944
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 2: Day before, Yeah, yeah, And she had a sore arm

945
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 2: and she's going just a wood shuck, like she had

946
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 2: trouble with Roger, and next thing you know, she's dead.

947
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,240
Speaker 2: And she was a whistleblow. She'd gone on current affairs

948
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 2: and spoke out about Roger. So you're the same people

949
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 2: that I was pulling on. Other people that had done

950
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: it prior to me it ended up dead or shot.

951
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: You know, how old were you at this stage?

952
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 2: Twenty five?

953
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 1: I was a baby, you're a kid.

954
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 2: I was a kid, And I remember Iron at home.

955
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 2: She was shut in the windows. She's going, you know

956
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: what they did to Mike DRUI, We're going to die,

957
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 2: you know, And she was very angry. I'd really upset

958
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 2: the family tree now and it was really I know,

959
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 2: like I was told by a number of people, there

960
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 2: was serious conversations about ending me. But they'd been so

961
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,240
Speaker 2: much trouble and because I was a policewoman and because

962
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 2: the family I came from, they didn't know what to do.

963
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,240
Speaker 2: Like I was a loose cannon, and so they stuck

964
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 2: me with Mick, and Mick looked really impressed when he

965
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 2: got me, and I'm going, what are you doing saving

966
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 2: on petrol? You're going to let Roger come to both

967
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: of us. You know, I'm on trip, you know. And

968
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,240
Speaker 2: my drinking just got so bad. I was so depressed.

969
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 2: I stuffed up my career. And this is a stage

970
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 2: where I get to alcoholics anonymous.

971
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is what for how long have you

972
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: been in the cops now? For four years?

973
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 2: Six years?

974
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: Six years? Okay? And you've gone from gaming and that

975
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: that got ugly what happened at gaming with it with

976
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 1: the al and trip. Then you've gone to Paramatta and

977
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: you're going out and taking reports of breaking in that

978
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: haven't happened, and told to get Lenny McPherson's wife a

979
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: gun license.

980
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 2: And lots more, lots more every day.

981
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: And you've it's become known that you're gone to gone

982
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 1: the lower or gone to internal affairs and so people

983
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 1: and you think you're at risk just because Mick Dury

984
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,919
Speaker 1: got shot and Sally and Huckstep disappeared and a few

985
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: other other things understandable, You're not in a very good

986
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: position to.

987
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was like my career was over. It

988
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,240
Speaker 2: was dead, and I'm stuck with these stupid gotcha cars,

989
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 2: which was a situation of getting paid to sit around

990
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 2: and you know, it was a joke. They never arrested anyone.

991
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 2: These cars were supposed to got chopped, people were supposed

992
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 2: to break into them. And then he wanted smoke and

993
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:48,359
Speaker 2: science to come up going You've been.

994
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 1: Caught by I. I was watching well after speaking to

995
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: you and reading your book, and then I watched The

996
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 1: Underbelly the Golden Mile again, just having to look put

997
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: some of the things in context, which you know, you

998
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: play a main character in The Underbelly Golden gold Mile

999
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: or Deborah web I think your character Carrier that hid

1000
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: you're a true identity, but the gotcha car tell me

1001
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: because I always have an issue with police ministers. I'm

1002
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: not naming anyone, so I don't get that think they're

1003
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: actually police and there's been a few of them down

1004
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: down there down the track that well, I'm the police minister,

1005
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 1: therefore I'm you know, it was just as tough as

1006
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: cool as you know, the police. The police minister, without

1007
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,280
Speaker 1: naming names, came up with the idea for the gotcha cars.

1008
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: And that was a couple of bomb cars that they had.

1009
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: If someone broke into it. Once they got in the car,

1010
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: itself locked.

1011
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was little tiny bolts about this big and

1012
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 2: they locked. They just kicked and so one guy got

1013
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 2: caught and kicked the door up. But we were putting,

1014
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 2: we were going to Vinis, we were getting purses and

1015
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 2: leaving money on the dasher and people had bring up

1016
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 2: security at the shopping center and saying, oh, there's a

1017
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:56,240
Speaker 2: car unlocked with money.

1018
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: In it, like so they didn't know what to do

1019
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 1: with you, and okay, what are we going to do?

1020
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: What are we going to do with you? We've got

1021
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: Mick Drury that yeah, he is the right to be

1022
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: tucked away somewhere after what happened to him. And they've

1023
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: spent you on this set you on this special operation

1024
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 1: that got your cars. And did the police minister really

1025
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: turn up there and get all excited about the plan.

1026
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 1: It was great?

1027
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's really good. Yeah, but it wasn't good.

1028
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:26,919
Speaker 2: It was a bit sad.

1029
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 1: And you were you and Mick, so you were virtually

1030
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: second in charge of the got your car operation. You

1031
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: got Mick and then they were rotating junior constables in

1032
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: to work with you, and you parked the car and

1033
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 1: then sit off the car for days, months, and that's

1034
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: when you start drinking. And life or not. You didn't start.

1035
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 2: Drinking, but by drinking cross that red line. I lost

1036
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 2: the plot. In the end, Mick put someone else second

1037
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 2: in charge, and I just went, I don't care you guys,

1038
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 2: do you want to run the group or not? And

1039
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 2: I'm going I just turn up here and I drink.

1040
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 2: And that's and the mess I was in and no

1041
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 2: one did anything about it. And I know he died.

1042
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 2: I had an ectopic pregnancy and I laid in the

1043
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,399
Speaker 2: men's toilets. I couldn't get the women's toilets all night.

1044
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 2: And Mix saw me the next day and he's gone, oh,

1045
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 2: he must have just been drunk. He must have been

1046
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: I haven't been drinking. And I said, I'm really crooked.

1047
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 2: Don't know what's wrong with me. And I was so

1048
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 2: it had burst and I was dying. I was literally

1049
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 2: I could feel myself dying. And I went to Paddington

1050
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 2: Women's Hospital and I had my loaded gun and a

1051
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 2: police car. I got your car and I've turned up

1052
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 2: and they're going, we're going to do emergency surgery on you.

1053
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,839
Speaker 2: You have burst inside, you're dying. And there was another

1054
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 2: prostitute I knew from up the cross stairs. She was

1055
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 2: having a miscarriage and she's that he won't help with me,

1056
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 2: and I said, well, I've got this loaded gun. Can

1057
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 2: you stick it in your And they're going what And

1058
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 2: I'm going And Mick got someone to get the car

1059
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 2: and it was just nuts and I was in there

1060
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 2: for about a month. I was so crooked, like how

1061
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 2: they had to take the Filippian true about and it

1062
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 2: was and yeah, it's major majors. And I was so

1063
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 2: close to dying. It wasn't funny, you know, Like I

1064
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 2: felt myself dying. I thought I'm going to die here,

1065
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:14,240
Speaker 2: and that was my wake up. Well, I'm an atheist,

1066
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,800
Speaker 2: and I upset some people in AA because it's a

1067
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 2: bit of a Christian thing. But I actually always joked

1068
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 2: that I would pray the moment I was about to die,

1069
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 2: just in case it was a God. And they said

1070
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 2: to me, they said, go the toilet, put on this

1071
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 2: operating gown. We're going to operate on you now, and

1072
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 2: we don't think you're going to make it. So I've

1073
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 2: got in the women's toilets, and I've gone, I'm going

1074
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,399
Speaker 2: to pray because just in case I die, and I went, look,

1075
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to try and be a better person. Let

1076
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 2: me survive this, just in case, you know. And I

1077
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 2: didn't realize that that deal I made with whoever was

1078
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 2: for me to stop drinking. It still took me a

1079
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 2: couple of years to actually get sober, but that was

1080
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 2: a turning point where I went, I've gone to my

1081
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 2: rock bottom. I actually died and and I had to

1082
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 2: get away from micking the gotcha cars and they're going,

1083
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 2: I'm going, I'm going to resurrect their career. I'm going

1084
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 2: to wear a suit or go the fraud squad.

1085
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so you were looking at going to revamp, revamp?

1086
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: How long were you gotcha strike force?

1087
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: For? It was just a blur of depression, maybe every year.

1088
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 2: It was horrible.

1089
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 1: Well if you're not working, and I see this with

1090
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: police because there's some place and they're looking at the

1091
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 1: clock or just when when they're going to get their

1092
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 1: next next drink. Over my career, I'm not talking about

1093
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 1: just specific time period, but it's a soulless existence, isn't it.

1094
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: If you turn up for work every day and not

1095
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: you're not achieving anything. You come home and what have

1096
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,800
Speaker 1: they actually done? And people are calling police heroes and

1097
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 1: you think, well, I haven't done anything.

1098
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 2: All day, like, and I've got people calling me a

1099
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 2: dog and being horrible to me.

1100
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: And so I'm just you didn't have it, didn't have

1101
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: a have a have a lot going going.

1102
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 2: Forward, and I'm waiting for Roger to get me or

1103
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:08,839
Speaker 2: someone else.

1104
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, we got you, We got you a situation that's

1105
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 1: pretty low, but things get lower. That's how we We'll

1106
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: invite people back for part two. For the chaos of

1107
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,240
Speaker 1: your your life and your your career and the police.

1108
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 1: It gets a lot worse than that. I think people

1109
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: when they hear will be shocked by how you were treated.

1110
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: But there's a well, a happy ending at the end.

1111
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:36,760
Speaker 1: Or you're still here, you've survived, yes, still standing