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Speaker 1: Appoche production.

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Speaker 2: Today, Sally's sharing the story of a much loved son, brother, dad, grandfather,

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Speaker 2: and friend, a man who for a long time was

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Speaker 2: treated more like a file than a person. Aaron Clear

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Speaker 2: was born on the seventeenth of June nineteen seventy five.

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Speaker 2: Aaron was a country kid at heart, red hair freckles.

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Speaker 2: He loved horses, cattle work, and country music. As an adult,

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Speaker 2: he lived what some may call a transient life with

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Speaker 2: no fixed address. In early twenty twenty, Aaron disappeared. There's

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Speaker 2: been no confirmed sighting since, no verified contact, and his

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Speaker 2: family have spent more than two thousand days living in

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Speaker 2: that unbearable space between hope and grief. In this episode,

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Speaker 2: it's a gentle conversation with Aaron's old assist Cassandra about

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Speaker 2: why Aaron matters.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back, everybody to the Missing Matter podcast. Today we're

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Speaker 3: talking about a special case and I have a lovely lady.

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Speaker 3: Her name is Cassandra. Today we're talking about her brother,

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Speaker 3: Aaron Clear. Aaron was born on the seventeenth of June

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy five. He was the second child and only

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Speaker 3: son to Kerry and William Clear, better known as Bill Clear. Sadly,

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Speaker 3: Bill is now deceased and devastatingly died not knowing what

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Speaker 3: happened to his only son. Living a transient lifestyle, Aaron

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Speaker 3: has been described as a wanderer. He didn't have a

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Speaker 3: permanent address or even a phone at the time of

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Speaker 3: his disappearance in the early stages of twenty twenty. His

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Speaker 3: family have been left wondering what has happened to him

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Speaker 3: and hoping he would return. But to date, Aaron has

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Speaker 3: been missing to thousand and ninety three days He would

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Speaker 3: have celebrated his fiftieth birthday last June. Today, I'm jumping

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Speaker 3: in and we're going to have a very gentle conversation

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Speaker 3: but an important one with Aaron's older sister, Cassandra will

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Speaker 3: who recently reached out to me to help me bring

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Speaker 3: awareness to her brother's disappearance. Cassandra, Welcome to the Missing

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Speaker 3: Matter podcast.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Sally, and thanks for giving me the safe

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Speaker 4: space to have a chat about Aaron.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and it is a safe space, so you just

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Speaker 3: take your time and we'll roll through and have a

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Speaker 3: chat and make some awareness and let everyone know about

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Speaker 3: Aaron and his disappearance. And we were at today. Can

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Speaker 3: you start with sharing who Aaron was.

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Speaker 4: To you, It's harder to describe that kind of thing

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Speaker 4: than you expect it to be.

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Speaker 1: But like you said, Aaron was my younger brother.

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Speaker 4: He was about two and a half years younger than me,

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Speaker 4: so well close enough in age that we went to

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Speaker 4: school together and went through the early stages of life

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Speaker 4: side by side. He wasn't just my younger Sibley in

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Speaker 4: the background. He had his own personality, his own energy.

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Speaker 4: In hindsight, he actually shaped my life in ways that

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Speaker 4: I didn't notice until later on. Now, being the older sibling,

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Speaker 4: I often felt a mix of responsibility but also rivalry,

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Speaker 4: Like there's that normal kind of family dynamic. We'd argue

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Speaker 4: about little things and laugh about stuff and go right

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Speaker 4: back to being fine the next day. Nothing dramatic, just

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Speaker 4: kind of regular sibling behavior I guess built on the

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Speaker 4: life of shared routines, shared spaces and memories.

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Speaker 1: Aaron was just always a familiar presence in my life.

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Speaker 4: You just grow up assuming that that person's always going

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Speaker 4: to be there. You don't have to explain yourself to

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Speaker 4: because they had the same shared.

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Speaker 1: Upbringing and family life.

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Speaker 4: Losing that presence and having him missing, it's just changed everything.

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Speaker 4: It's just given you a perspective and a hindsight that

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Speaker 4: you don't get until this actually happens. When I talk

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Speaker 4: about Aaron now, it just invokes this unique kind of

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Speaker 4: feeling of numbness, like I'm looking from the outside, and

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Speaker 4: it causes me a kind of pain in my heart

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Speaker 4: that I just can't explain. I never know how to

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Speaker 4: refer to Aaron. I never know how to say Aaron

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Speaker 4: is or Aaron was, And I think that I often

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Speaker 4: have a combination of both, and then I question myself

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Speaker 4: whether I should be saying is or was or It's

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Speaker 4: just hard to reconcile because I'm not just talking about

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Speaker 4: a missing person.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about my.

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Speaker 4: Brother, my blood, the person who grew up alongside me,

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Speaker 4: and he still holds space in my life and.

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Speaker 1: I don't know where he is and I never got

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Speaker 1: to say goodbye.

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Speaker 3: And that is a hard part of it, isn't it

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Speaker 3: Like talking about the here and the now, and whether

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Speaker 3: you say in past tense or current tents, it is

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Speaker 3: quite difficult, and that is something that I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of us struggle with in the missing space, so

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Speaker 3: you just know that you're not alone, it is difficult

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Speaker 3: and you know, it is hard to give you a

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Speaker 3: big hard because it.

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Speaker 1: Is hard to talk about things.

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Speaker 3: Can you describe what your relationship was like with Aaron

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Speaker 3: when you were growing up.

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Speaker 4: I know it sounds cliche, but it was just normal,

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Speaker 4: Like when I look back, it was just completely normal.

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Speaker 1: We would fight, we would make up.

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Speaker 4: We went to school together, and I remember like at

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Speaker 4: school I would say to him like go away, don't

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Speaker 4: come near me, like don't embarrass me. But then I

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Speaker 4: would hear like you know that someone was picking on

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Speaker 4: him or something like that, and you know, I was.

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Speaker 1: The first one there to defend him.

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Speaker 4: At home, we constantly argued like he was the boy

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Speaker 4: between three girls, Like I was the oldest and I

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Speaker 4: have two younger sisters, so he was like second to

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Speaker 4: me and then the two girls. So we would always,

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Speaker 4: you know, fight about chores and we had to help

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Speaker 4: out a lot around the house. But I was always

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Speaker 4: the boss and things that I remember, simple things like

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Speaker 4: the washing up.

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Speaker 1: I was always the wash up er.

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Speaker 4: I always delegated him to drying the dishes and then

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Speaker 4: the other two would often either help or they would

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Speaker 4: have to put the dishes away, and he would leave

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Speaker 4: those dishes on the brack and take his time drying

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Speaker 4: them up. Because he left him long enough, they would

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Speaker 4: drive themselves and then he wouldn't have to do that.

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Speaker 4: He could just move them across and someone else would

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Speaker 4: put them away. So I would just tip water hot

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Speaker 4: water on those dishes so that he actually physically had

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Speaker 4: to drive them up.

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Speaker 3: That's a big sister thing.

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Speaker 4: I remember once we're having some sort of argument and

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Speaker 4: he threw a can opener across the kitchen at me,

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Speaker 4: And it's funny the things that you're remember, and it cut,

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Speaker 4: like made a cut on the bottom of my foot.

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Speaker 4: But we were just typical, like you know, a mom, dad,

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Speaker 4: four kids. Mum and dad both worked hard to pay a.

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Speaker 1: Mortgage, and I guess that was just how we were.

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Speaker 4: Family holidays until around about the age of sixteen years old,

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Speaker 4: and Aaron decided that he was going to have an

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Speaker 4: adventure and he left home at around sixteen years of age.

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Speaker 4: I guess that's where that growing up part ended, and

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Speaker 4: we sort of both started going down the adulthood out and.

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Speaker 3: What kind of things made Aaron who he was, like

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Speaker 3: his personalities, passion, he struggles, his strengths.

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Speaker 4: Probably the thing that I would say about Aaron his personality,

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Speaker 4: you would always know Aaron was in a room. He

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Speaker 4: was always bigger than life, laughing, louder than everyone else,

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Speaker 4: making a fool of himself to put other people at ease,

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Speaker 4: not even a fool of himself, just cracking jokes and

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Speaker 4: just trying to make sure everyone was happy. Like he

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Speaker 4: always wanted people around him, so he had a big personality.

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Speaker 1: He was selfless.

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Speaker 4: He was well known, and lots of people have said

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Speaker 4: to me nowadays when they talk to me about Aaron,

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Speaker 4: is that he was just always so caring of other people,

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Speaker 4: and particularly those people that he could see that didn't

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Speaker 4: have someone else to help them, so like kind of

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Speaker 4: knighting shining armor. But unfortunately that often meant that he

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Speaker 4: would put himself second to that, which wasn't always ideal

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Speaker 4: for him. He was passionate about the country life, like

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Speaker 4: he wanted to be a cowboy. He would often get

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Speaker 4: around in a cowboy hat cowboy boots. He was drawn

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Speaker 4: to animals, so like he would be involved in horses.

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Speaker 4: He tried cowboy rodeo riding and bronk riding and all

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Speaker 4: of those kind of things, and would often go and

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Speaker 4: try and get jobs on like farms and cattle stations

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Speaker 4: and things like that. I've got to say he was

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Speaker 4: passionate about his family, Like whatever any of us started

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Speaker 4: having kids or there was like a celebration. Even though

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Speaker 4: he wasn't around, like living at home anymore, he would

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Speaker 4: always make his way back to us, always turned up

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Speaker 4: for Christmas, Birthdays, Mother's Day, Father's Day.

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Speaker 1: He would just turn up.

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Speaker 4: We might not know where he was coming from, but

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Speaker 4: he would always just find a way back into our

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Speaker 4: lives and.

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Speaker 1: Just turn up.

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Speaker 4: So I'll say like he was passionate about the country life,

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Speaker 4: you know, camping, traveling, and just probably outdoors in general.

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Speaker 4: Aaron's biggest struggle, would say, was with his self worth

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Speaker 4: and just finding a place where he felt like he'd

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Speaker 4: fit in. School was always difficult for Aaron. He struggled academically.

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Speaker 1: His red hair and.

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Speaker 4: Freckles which he had when he was younger probably most

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Speaker 4: definitely made him a target for bullies.

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Speaker 1: So school wasn't an easy place.

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Speaker 4: And I'd even go so far as to say, now

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Speaker 4: having had my own children and see it, he's undiagnosed ADHD,

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Speaker 4: I think made it hard for him as well. It

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Speaker 4: just wasn't something that was talked about or anything like

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Speaker 4: that back when.

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Speaker 1: We were kids.

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Speaker 4: So I think he just was misunderstood and he just

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Speaker 4: felt like he didn't fit in. And then later in life,

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Speaker 4: I know that his biggest struggle was with his mental

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Speaker 4: health issues. Wherever they stemmed from, whatever contributed to those,

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Speaker 4: it was a big part of who he was. And

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Speaker 4: this led to drug and alcohol use and then this

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Speaker 4: became an addiction. I think just sort of moving on

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Speaker 4: and just trying to answer everything about Aaron and just

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Speaker 4: he was caring and compassionate and his strength, as I

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Speaker 4: said before, often became his weakness and it was taken

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Speaker 4: advantage of. He was in inquisitive, resilient, and had incredible

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Speaker 4: determination to stand up for others even when it was

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Speaker 4: difficult or dangerous for himself.

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Speaker 3: And it's a slippery, slippery slide, isn't it once you

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Speaker 3: sort of move out at a young age, and if

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Speaker 3: you tap into that drug side of life, like my

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Speaker 3: brother had a similar experience, So I you know, empathize

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Speaker 3: with you and understand what you're saying there. It's hard.

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Speaker 3: It's hard for us as their siblings as well to

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Speaker 3: see to see that happening.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and you want to distance yourself a little bit

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Speaker 4: from it because you don't understand that.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time you want to.

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Speaker 4: Be supportive, but it's hard to know where those lines are.

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Speaker 3: And look, you've mentioned to me, and we've talked a

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Speaker 3: fair bit on the phone, because it is a big

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Speaker 3: thing to talk about your family and talk about openly

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Speaker 3: about someone who is missing to you.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he was.

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Speaker 3: A really big part of your family by all the counts.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk about your favorite memory of Aaron.

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Speaker 1: I have been thinking about this. I have so many

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Speaker 1: memories and it's hard.

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Speaker 4: I do remember Aaron was always trying to be better,

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Speaker 4: and that was part of the struggle. Like he just

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Speaker 4: was always trying to be better and making people happy,

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Speaker 4: and he didn't kind of ever just be sat like

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Speaker 4: I think, always struggled just to be satisfied that he

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Speaker 4: was good enough.

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Speaker 1: So the time I would pick as.

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Speaker 4: One of my favorite, like probably recent memories in adulthood,

224
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Speaker 4: was Aaron was actually in rehab. He was in a

225
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Speaker 4: facility where they lived, they worked, they had jobs.

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Speaker 1: It was on a property and there was farms.

227
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Speaker 4: And machinery to be fixed, and he really was in

228
00:11:49,161 --> 00:11:52,401
Speaker 4: his element and he was loving it and reading the

229
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Speaker 4: Bible and just really trying to just be a better

230
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Speaker 4: person overall and sort of break his addiction. Initially he

231
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Speaker 4: was asked to go there, but I think that he

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Speaker 4: did choose to stay in this place a little bit

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Speaker 4: longer than what he was supposed to sort of be there,

234
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Speaker 4: so he was committed. And it was around Christmas time.

235
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Speaker 4: They had a family Christmas, so they invited. You could

236
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Speaker 4: invite whoever you want, and a lot of the people there.

237
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Speaker 4: It was a men's facility, you know, just might have

238
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Speaker 4: had one or two people there. Well, Aaron wanted us

239
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Speaker 4: all there, so his three sisters, mom, dad, his daughter.

240
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Speaker 4: So I think there was around about ten kids there

241
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Speaker 4: and we just had the best day. He dressed up

242
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Speaker 4: as Sanna at one point, and that he made sure

243
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Speaker 4: that all the little kids, because they were only quite young,

244
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Speaker 4: got a gift.

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Speaker 1: He was just so proud.

246
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Speaker 4: He took us around and showed us where they cooked

247
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Speaker 4: the meals, where he fixed the tractor. He was just

248
00:12:42,881 --> 00:12:45,841
Speaker 4: so attentive and intent on making sure that all of

249
00:12:45,881 --> 00:12:49,961
Speaker 4: the kids and his daughter had a really nice time,

250
00:12:50,001 --> 00:12:52,081
Speaker 4: and it was just it was a beautiful day and

251
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Speaker 4: I just remember we all had so much fun. I mean,

252
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Speaker 4: he was in a rehab facility, but that kind of

253
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Speaker 4: it didn't matter, like because we were just together.

254
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Speaker 3: Nice that the facility put that on for everyone as well,

255
00:13:03,921 --> 00:13:06,641
Speaker 3: you know, bringing their family together and bringing them in

256
00:13:06,721 --> 00:13:10,121
Speaker 3: and showing everyone a good time in what typically is

257
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Speaker 3: a pretty rough space, I would imagine. And he sounds

258
00:13:13,641 --> 00:13:16,401
Speaker 3: like a great guy from all accounts, you know, fun

259
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Speaker 3: loving and full of life and full of energy.

260
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Speaker 1: Full of energy definitely. Yeah.

261
00:13:21,481 --> 00:13:25,801
Speaker 3: So what was Aaron's life like before he went missing.

262
00:13:27,041 --> 00:13:28,801
Speaker 1: I'd have to say he was unwell.

263
00:13:29,761 --> 00:13:32,721
Speaker 4: His addictions had really taken hold at this point, and

264
00:13:32,801 --> 00:13:35,241
Speaker 4: I think that every time I saw Aaron, I could

265
00:13:35,281 --> 00:13:38,321
Speaker 4: just tell that he was losing weight, he was not

266
00:13:38,481 --> 00:13:42,881
Speaker 4: looking well, he'd lost the spark, He'd lost the Aaron spark.

267
00:13:43,441 --> 00:13:46,001
Speaker 4: His behavior had become quite erratic, and he was always

268
00:13:46,041 --> 00:13:48,721
Speaker 4: quite paranoid, like he was always looking over his shoulder.

269
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Speaker 4: Paranoid is the word. Like. I don't think he was scared,

270
00:13:52,201 --> 00:13:53,721
Speaker 4: and think he was just paranoid. And I don't know

271
00:13:53,761 --> 00:13:56,761
Speaker 4: what he was paranoid about. He just wasn't himself anymore,

272
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Speaker 4: and his life just I feel as much as we

273
00:14:00,081 --> 00:14:03,761
Speaker 4: weren't in it day to day from the outside, it

274
00:14:03,801 --> 00:14:06,721
Speaker 4: looked like his life was just about one drug high

275
00:14:06,761 --> 00:14:09,561
Speaker 4: to the next. Like he always had a bedroom at

276
00:14:09,601 --> 00:14:12,081
Speaker 4: my dad's house, and the door to Dad's house was

277
00:14:12,121 --> 00:14:14,881
Speaker 4: always unlocked, And so Aaron would show up at my

278
00:14:14,961 --> 00:14:17,361
Speaker 4: dad's house and he would sleep for days till his

279
00:14:17,521 --> 00:14:20,481
Speaker 4: next job seeker payment come through, and then he would

280
00:14:20,521 --> 00:14:21,281
Speaker 4: disappear again.

281
00:14:22,041 --> 00:14:25,081
Speaker 1: Whether that was days or a week or ten days,

282
00:14:25,121 --> 00:14:25,641
Speaker 1: I don't know.

283
00:14:25,641 --> 00:14:27,281
Speaker 4: And then he would come back again, and then he

284
00:14:27,321 --> 00:14:29,361
Speaker 4: would like the cycle would just continue.

285
00:14:29,841 --> 00:14:31,241
Speaker 1: It wasn't to say though.

286
00:14:32,001 --> 00:14:35,361
Speaker 4: Between my mom and the three of us sisters and dads,

287
00:14:35,561 --> 00:14:37,521
Speaker 4: we were always in touch one way or the other

288
00:14:37,761 --> 00:14:41,761
Speaker 4: by phone messager. He would often like ring Like Dad

289
00:14:41,841 --> 00:14:44,521
Speaker 4: was unwell towards the end as well, and so when

290
00:14:44,561 --> 00:14:47,121
Speaker 4: Aaron would go there, my sister was there a lot

291
00:14:47,201 --> 00:14:50,161
Speaker 4: at the house, so she would often see him. It's

292
00:14:50,201 --> 00:14:54,241
Speaker 4: difficult to say exactly what was happening, because sadly, I

293
00:14:54,281 --> 00:14:57,081
Speaker 4: didn't have any contact with him in that twelve months

294
00:14:57,441 --> 00:15:01,561
Speaker 4: directly prior to his disappearance. However, in the years leading

295
00:15:01,641 --> 00:15:04,601
Speaker 4: up to this period, Aaron was definitely declining, and I

296
00:15:04,641 --> 00:15:06,841
Speaker 4: am aware that he started using the drug ice.

297
00:15:07,881 --> 00:15:11,881
Speaker 3: So what do you remember about his living situation. I mean,

298
00:15:11,881 --> 00:15:14,761
Speaker 3: obviously we've talked about the fact that he could come

299
00:15:14,801 --> 00:15:18,041
Speaker 3: and go at your dad's openly, but you know, what

300
00:15:18,121 --> 00:15:20,881
Speaker 3: was his routine, Like who were his friends? Where was

301
00:15:20,921 --> 00:15:22,401
Speaker 3: he when he wasn't at your dad's.

302
00:15:23,321 --> 00:15:27,361
Speaker 4: Aaron was homeless, he would stay at i'll say friends' houses.

303
00:15:27,401 --> 00:15:29,961
Speaker 4: But like for you and I, like you wouldn't go

304
00:15:30,001 --> 00:15:32,081
Speaker 4: and stay at someone's house if you didn't kind of

305
00:15:32,121 --> 00:15:34,401
Speaker 4: know who they were. But the kind of life that

306
00:15:34,481 --> 00:15:38,761
Speaker 4: Aaron lived, like any extension of somewhere to stay, I

307
00:15:38,801 --> 00:15:41,201
Speaker 4: think he would grab, Like if it's somewhere to stay

308
00:15:41,201 --> 00:15:42,961
Speaker 4: for a one or two weeks or even a couple

309
00:15:42,961 --> 00:15:45,241
Speaker 4: of nights, you know, he would take that opportunity. So

310
00:15:45,641 --> 00:15:49,041
Speaker 4: he would often stay at acquaintances i'll say, and sometimes

311
00:15:49,081 --> 00:15:52,561
Speaker 4: with family, like I've had him overnight at my house. Really,

312
00:15:52,601 --> 00:15:54,761
Speaker 4: he'd stay anywhere that would have him. And if he

313
00:15:54,801 --> 00:15:58,161
Speaker 4: couldn't find somewhere like that to stay, then he would

314
00:15:58,241 --> 00:16:02,401
Speaker 4: camp in bushland or reserves, just somewhere where there might

315
00:16:02,441 --> 00:16:05,921
Speaker 4: have been a toilet. He was known to have made

316
00:16:06,001 --> 00:16:08,441
Speaker 4: a bit of a shack in the bush behind where

317
00:16:08,481 --> 00:16:12,481
Speaker 4: my dad lived, and he would stay there. Aaron's friendship

318
00:16:12,521 --> 00:16:15,121
Speaker 4: circle I would say was quite small. I only know

319
00:16:15,281 --> 00:16:19,241
Speaker 4: of a very small number of like true friends, and

320
00:16:19,401 --> 00:16:21,761
Speaker 4: other than that, I think his life had become just

321
00:16:21,961 --> 00:16:26,921
Speaker 4: hanging around other people that were living and doing the living.

322
00:16:26,641 --> 00:16:28,321
Speaker 1: That same lifestyle that he was.

323
00:16:28,441 --> 00:16:32,241
Speaker 4: So there really wasn't any structure in his life at

324
00:16:32,241 --> 00:16:34,401
Speaker 4: that time from my perspective.

325
00:16:34,481 --> 00:16:35,241
Speaker 1: Yeah, looking in.

326
00:16:36,041 --> 00:16:38,721
Speaker 3: So did he talk about his dreams and hopes for

327
00:16:38,761 --> 00:16:39,921
Speaker 3: the future with you guys?

328
00:16:40,881 --> 00:16:45,841
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I know Aaron's dreams. Aaron wanted his own place.

329
00:16:46,001 --> 00:16:48,401
Speaker 4: He didn't care if it was small. He'd always just said,

330
00:16:49,001 --> 00:16:50,681
Speaker 4: I just want my own place. I just want my

331
00:16:50,721 --> 00:16:53,361
Speaker 4: own roof over my head, even if it's just one room.

332
00:16:53,401 --> 00:16:55,761
Speaker 4: I just want to know that it's a safe space,

333
00:16:55,801 --> 00:16:58,401
Speaker 4: and I've always got it to go back to. Over

334
00:16:58,441 --> 00:17:03,161
Speaker 4: the years, Aaron lost his belongings so many times because

335
00:17:03,161 --> 00:17:05,120
Speaker 4: he would leave them at someone's house and then he

336
00:17:05,121 --> 00:17:08,081
Speaker 4: wouldn't get back there and then they would get thrown out.

337
00:17:08,121 --> 00:17:10,400
Speaker 4: So he was always in this cycle of, you know,

338
00:17:10,481 --> 00:17:12,440
Speaker 4: having to go to the op shops and get some

339
00:17:12,521 --> 00:17:15,120
Speaker 4: new clothes or different things like that. I know he

340
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,480
Speaker 4: wanted more contact with his daughter, and he desperately just

341
00:17:18,561 --> 00:17:21,120
Speaker 4: wanted a partner like he wanted a partner that he

342
00:17:21,120 --> 00:17:23,840
Speaker 4: could settle down with and just have that, you know,

343
00:17:23,961 --> 00:17:27,401
Speaker 4: coming home each night. And I think that he probably

344
00:17:27,521 --> 00:17:29,801
Speaker 4: never said this in words like we. I don't think

345
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,360
Speaker 4: we had a conversation as deep as as this, but

346
00:17:32,441 --> 00:17:34,280
Speaker 4: I think he would have liked to have had like

347
00:17:34,441 --> 00:17:38,001
Speaker 4: just that family, like maybe have more children. But he

348
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,600
Speaker 4: was a country boy at heart, come hell or high water.

349
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,761
Speaker 4: He wanted to be a cowboy and it made him happy. Yeah,

350
00:17:43,801 --> 00:17:46,240
Speaker 4: I think just so much so that I have a

351
00:17:46,281 --> 00:17:48,961
Speaker 4: tattoo which is purposely on the back of my arm

352
00:17:49,001 --> 00:17:52,001
Speaker 4: because I don't always look at it, but it's always there.

353
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,681
Speaker 1: And that tattoo is a cowboy boot and a cowboy hat.

354
00:17:55,681 --> 00:18:00,080
Speaker 4: And some music notes because he loved country music. And

355
00:18:00,321 --> 00:18:03,321
Speaker 4: I actually used to make him CDs of country music

356
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:05,480
Speaker 4: because he could never afford to buy them, so I

357
00:18:05,561 --> 00:18:08,080
Speaker 4: used to download music and make him CDs.

358
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,281
Speaker 1: And that's just Yeah, I don't know.

359
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 3: Tattoos are a thing, aren't they. We talk about that

360
00:18:12,801 --> 00:18:14,840
Speaker 3: a fair bit with a couple of other people who

361
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,920
Speaker 3: have done that as well, And I get that you

362
00:18:17,961 --> 00:18:19,840
Speaker 3: don't want to maybe look at it every day, but

363
00:18:19,921 --> 00:18:21,761
Speaker 3: it's just sits there. It's like something sitting in.

364
00:18:22,681 --> 00:18:25,161
Speaker 1: Was in my life. Yeah, Like it's on the back

365
00:18:25,201 --> 00:18:26,921
Speaker 1: of my arm, so I know it's there.

366
00:18:27,201 --> 00:18:30,360
Speaker 4: I get asked about it, and I love that it's there,

367
00:18:30,441 --> 00:18:34,680
Speaker 4: and sometimes I don't because sometimes it's a conversation that

368
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 4: you know, it's too big. Someone will say, oh, I

369
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,001
Speaker 4: love your tattoo, and I'm just like, yeah, thanks, I.

370
00:18:39,961 --> 00:18:40,400
Speaker 1: Love it too.

371
00:18:44,041 --> 00:18:48,721
Speaker 3: We've shared with me Aaron struggles with substance use and

372
00:18:48,801 --> 00:18:52,480
Speaker 3: his mental health issues, and by all accounts, twenty nineteen

373
00:18:52,561 --> 00:18:55,681
Speaker 3: seemed to be quite a difficult year for him. How

374
00:18:55,681 --> 00:18:58,681
Speaker 3: did this affect his relationship with you and your family?

375
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:05,001
Speaker 4: Look, it's sad because up until that point, I think

376
00:19:05,201 --> 00:19:09,321
Speaker 4: Aaron was able to keep his lifestyle and his drug

377
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,481
Speaker 4: use quite separate from us, So I don't think we

378
00:19:12,961 --> 00:19:15,561
Speaker 4: knew the extent of what it was or what it

379
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,761
Speaker 4: had become. So I think that in twenty nineteen, that's

380
00:19:19,801 --> 00:19:23,481
Speaker 4: when things started to become clearer about where Aaron was at.

381
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,920
Speaker 4: And I think that we started to, as a family,

382
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:32,400
Speaker 4: like individually and collectively, put more boundaries in place around Aaron.

383
00:19:32,721 --> 00:19:34,881
Speaker 4: And I think that because he was declining as well,

384
00:19:34,921 --> 00:19:38,920
Speaker 4: he was initiating contact less than in previous years, having

385
00:19:38,921 --> 00:19:41,880
Speaker 4: said that we still intermittently would talk to Aaron and

386
00:19:41,961 --> 00:19:45,640
Speaker 4: knew where he was. He did spend a period of

387
00:19:45,681 --> 00:19:50,280
Speaker 4: time in jail during twenty nineteen, and I think it

388
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,441
Speaker 4: just became more and more difficult for us to support

389
00:19:53,521 --> 00:19:55,880
Speaker 4: Aaron as his drug use increased.

390
00:19:56,041 --> 00:19:57,561
Speaker 1: Like it's scary.

391
00:19:58,041 --> 00:20:01,240
Speaker 4: We all had young families and you just want to

392
00:20:01,241 --> 00:20:04,241
Speaker 4: protect people, and you just you don't want to step

393
00:20:04,281 --> 00:20:07,001
Speaker 4: into that world because you don't know about it. And

394
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:13,360
Speaker 4: Dad was also declining, and Aaron's behaviors and what was

395
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 4: happening in his life was affecting Dad. Our relationship wasn't

396
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,001
Speaker 4: probably as great with him in that twenty nineteen period

397
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,961
Speaker 4: than it had been previously because we were just won't

398
00:20:24,001 --> 00:20:25,920
Speaker 4: able to support him in the same way anymore. It

399
00:20:26,001 --> 00:20:28,360
Speaker 4: wasn't just buying him a meal and giving him a

400
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 4: place to live, you know, like he needed so much

401
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:32,441
Speaker 4: more than we were able to give.

402
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,160
Speaker 3: And look, we talked about him voluntarily going in to

403
00:20:36,281 --> 00:20:39,601
Speaker 3: rehappen things like that, But what other treatment or support

404
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:40,761
Speaker 3: did he seek.

405
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:42,281
Speaker 1: Over the years?

406
00:20:42,721 --> 00:20:47,281
Speaker 4: Reading back through the coronial inquest, but just there's a

407
00:20:47,321 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 4: lot of medical information and Aaron tried to seek help

408
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:55,441
Speaker 4: a lot of times, like he'd both voluntary and involuntary

409
00:20:55,481 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 4: at times, like he may have been charged for one

410
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,481
Speaker 4: thing or another, whether it be possession of a small

411
00:21:01,481 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 4: amount of drugs. You know, he might have to appear

412
00:21:03,721 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 4: in court and they might say, will you go and

413
00:21:05,761 --> 00:21:08,521
Speaker 4: do this program and the charges will be dropped and

414
00:21:08,561 --> 00:21:10,761
Speaker 4: that kind of thing. So often it was at the

415
00:21:10,801 --> 00:21:13,640
Speaker 4: direction of the courts or something like that. But then

416
00:21:13,681 --> 00:21:15,680
Speaker 4: other times, you know, like he would seek help in

417
00:21:15,681 --> 00:21:16,761
Speaker 4: a voluntary capacity.

418
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,201
Speaker 1: One of my sisters actually took him on.

419
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,281
Speaker 4: More than one occasion to a mental health hospital in

420
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:25,921
Speaker 4: Newcastle where he was admitted, and you know, he would

421
00:21:25,961 --> 00:21:28,761
Speaker 4: talk openly about his struggles with mental health and the

422
00:21:28,801 --> 00:21:32,400
Speaker 4: fact that the medication that he was being provided didn't

423
00:21:32,441 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 4: sort of seem to help. He never hid his mental

424
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:38,041
Speaker 4: health struggles. He always tried to remain positive. He always

425
00:21:38,041 --> 00:21:41,441
Speaker 4: looked to the future. I remember him having a mantra

426
00:21:41,561 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 4: of just one day at a time, one foot in

427
00:21:43,481 --> 00:21:45,360
Speaker 4: front of the other, and it didn't matter how many

428
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,641
Speaker 4: times he got knocked down, he always managed to get

429
00:21:48,681 --> 00:21:52,360
Speaker 4: back up again, Like he just always managed to keep

430
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,640
Speaker 4: on striving for that place of his own.

431
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,201
Speaker 3: With every missing person's case, a time liment of events

432
00:21:59,321 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 3: leading up to their disappearance is of the utmost importance.

433
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 3: Can you walk us through the last you saw or

434
00:22:06,561 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 3: contacted Aaron?

435
00:22:08,681 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so personally.

436
00:22:11,241 --> 00:22:14,721
Speaker 4: The last time that I saw Aaron was Boxing Day

437
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:16,121
Speaker 4: in twenty nineteen.

438
00:22:16,241 --> 00:22:19,681
Speaker 1: He came to my house. He wasn't unhappy. I think

439
00:22:19,761 --> 00:22:21,120
Speaker 1: he was resigned.

440
00:22:21,561 --> 00:22:24,640
Speaker 4: So the day before we'd had a family Christmas get together,

441
00:22:25,241 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 4: and he didn't attend that get together he wanted to.

442
00:22:30,201 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: The next day, he came down to see me.

443
00:22:32,281 --> 00:22:34,360
Speaker 4: He'd been staying with dad, and my dad dropped him

444
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:37,681
Speaker 4: down to my house and we just talked, and my mom.

445
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 1: Was here as well, and I distinctly remember he wasn't well,

446
00:22:41,961 --> 00:22:43,561
Speaker 1: But when I talked to my mom about.

447
00:22:43,281 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 4: It, she didn't see what I saw, But I could

448
00:22:45,681 --> 00:22:49,601
Speaker 4: see him with that paranoia. He was looking over his shoulder.

449
00:22:50,321 --> 00:22:53,281
Speaker 4: Aaron was never kind of settled, like he was always

450
00:22:53,761 --> 00:22:56,121
Speaker 4: ready to move on kind of thing. He never actually

451
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 4: really settled. So I remember he had his bags, he

452
00:22:58,681 --> 00:22:59,801
Speaker 4: had his boots on, and.

453
00:22:59,761 --> 00:23:00,880
Speaker 1: He had his cowboy hat.

454
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:04,241
Speaker 4: Everything he owned he had with him, and we hugged

455
00:23:04,281 --> 00:23:06,321
Speaker 4: and we talked. I told him I loved him, and

456
00:23:06,681 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 4: I can't remember how long he stayed I know he

457
00:23:08,481 --> 00:23:10,641
Speaker 4: didn't come inside the house. He didn't want to come

458
00:23:10,681 --> 00:23:13,441
Speaker 4: inside my house that day. And then he left and

459
00:23:13,481 --> 00:23:16,001
Speaker 4: he walked. I offered him a lift, and he didn't

460
00:23:16,001 --> 00:23:18,761
Speaker 4: want to lift, and he walked down my street. And

461
00:23:18,761 --> 00:23:22,001
Speaker 4: I'll just never forget like just watching him walk away

462
00:23:22,761 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 4: and feeling like I wanted to do something but I couldn't,

463
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 4: Like he couldn't live with me, He didn't want to

464
00:23:28,921 --> 00:23:31,041
Speaker 4: live with me, and I just had to let him go.

465
00:23:31,241 --> 00:23:35,521
Speaker 4: And unfortunately and devastatingly, that's the last time I ever

466
00:23:35,561 --> 00:23:41,561
Speaker 4: saw Aaron. I know that he went to someone's house

467
00:23:41,761 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 4: in like the same suburb as me, who was a

468
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 4: friend of his, and he did stay there for a

469
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,201
Speaker 4: little while, but I know he didn't stay there for

470
00:23:48,441 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 4: a long while. And there was still contact with Aaron

471
00:23:52,001 --> 00:23:54,801
Speaker 4: in the months after that. I know we went back

472
00:23:54,801 --> 00:23:58,041
Speaker 4: to my dad's and one of my younger sisters distinctly

473
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,041
Speaker 4: remember seeing him at Dad's after that and talking to him.

474
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:05,801
Speaker 4: And I remember we did speak to Aaron early in

475
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,721
Speaker 4: twenty twenty because we needed to clean out his things

476
00:24:09,721 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 4: at Dad's house. So, like I said to you before,

477
00:24:12,001 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 4: like he always had a bedroom at Dad's house, but

478
00:24:14,721 --> 00:24:16,481
Speaker 4: it had gotten to the point where it was just

479
00:24:16,521 --> 00:24:17,881
Speaker 4: a mattress on the ground, and.

480
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,921
Speaker 1: There was lots of Aaron's stuff.

481
00:24:19,961 --> 00:24:23,001
Speaker 4: He would collect stuff from piles that other people would

482
00:24:23,041 --> 00:24:25,201
Speaker 4: throw out and bring it back to Dad's and dad

483
00:24:25,321 --> 00:24:27,961
Speaker 4: shed and the one bedroom in the two bedroom house

484
00:24:28,041 --> 00:24:30,321
Speaker 4: was completely full of Aaron's things and we just needed

485
00:24:30,321 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 4: to start cleaning them out.

486
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 1: So we were talking to him.

487
00:24:32,441 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 4: About that, and he said that he couldn't come and

488
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,521
Speaker 4: help us do that, but he was happy for us

489
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,521
Speaker 4: to get rid of whatever we deemed necessary. And we

490
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,961
Speaker 4: said that we would keep anything that we thought was

491
00:24:45,001 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 4: special and put it in the garage for him. But

492
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 4: like all the big stuff and the old clothes and

493
00:24:50,041 --> 00:24:52,321
Speaker 4: just whipper snippers, it didn't work. And that kind of

494
00:24:52,321 --> 00:24:54,121
Speaker 4: thing we were able to get rid of. And then

495
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,721
Speaker 4: that's the last contact that I remember us having with Aaron.

496
00:24:58,721 --> 00:25:02,521
Speaker 3: Well, we have on the timeline that on the sixth

497
00:25:02,561 --> 00:25:06,161
Speaker 3: of January twenty twenty, Aaron sent a Facebook Messenger message

498
00:25:06,201 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 3: to your Mom asking for his daughter Katie's phone number

499
00:25:09,961 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 3: and confirmed we have found a place to live, moving

500
00:25:14,201 --> 00:25:19,001
Speaker 3: in today somewhere between Morrissette and Dora Creek. Yeah, so

501
00:25:19,041 --> 00:25:20,801
Speaker 3: the first thing that stood out to me when I

502
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 3: was reading this, Cassandra was if you're moving in that day,

503
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:27,321
Speaker 3: it does seem a bit odd that he wouldn't tell

504
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:31,041
Speaker 3: your mom the actual address rather than in between Morrisett

505
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 3: and Dora Creek Or was that typical for Aaron?

506
00:25:35,481 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, we do hang on to that as a

507
00:25:39,921 --> 00:25:43,161
Speaker 4: The way I could probably explain that is I think

508
00:25:43,201 --> 00:25:45,601
Speaker 4: that he probably didn't know exactly where it was and

509
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,001
Speaker 4: where he was going to be living. But I would

510
00:25:48,041 --> 00:25:51,761
Speaker 4: say that he just was told we've got somewhere to live,

511
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,081
Speaker 4: and he just was happy and excited and just sharing

512
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,001
Speaker 4: that with us. It might seem like really unusual behavior,

513
00:25:59,041 --> 00:26:01,801
Speaker 4: but yeah, that's pretty normal that he would be pretty

514
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,321
Speaker 4: vague on the details and he probably didn't know the

515
00:26:04,321 --> 00:26:05,321
Speaker 4: address at that point.

516
00:26:05,921 --> 00:26:08,481
Speaker 3: One of the things he did say is Wii not I,

517
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,801
Speaker 3: So who was that that he was moving in with.

518
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,321
Speaker 4: I believe the Wii, just because of the context I

519
00:26:16,321 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 4: have around her is that that was with his girlfriend

520
00:26:19,561 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 4: at the time.

521
00:26:21,561 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 3: It's a month later, on the fifth of February twenty twenty,

522
00:26:24,561 --> 00:26:26,881
Speaker 3: and it's recorded that Aaron was issued a ticket by

523
00:26:26,921 --> 00:26:32,321
Speaker 3: police at Fassifern railway station That same day. Aaron's Commonwealth

524
00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 3: Bank card was used at the seven to eleven at Morrisset,

525
00:26:37,481 --> 00:26:40,121
Speaker 3: And for those of you who are not familiar, this

526
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 3: is near Lake Macquarie on the east coast of New

527
00:26:42,681 --> 00:26:47,001
Speaker 3: South Wales. Then on the sixteenth of February, his Commonwealth

528
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:51,481
Speaker 3: Bank card was used at Woolworths at Morrisset, and that

529
00:26:51,561 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 3: same day at the same Woolies at Morrisset, five hundred

530
00:26:55,681 --> 00:26:57,401
Speaker 3: dollars was withdrawn from his account.

531
00:26:58,041 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: That's right.

532
00:26:59,041 --> 00:27:01,521
Speaker 3: Nine days later, on the twenty fifth of February and

533
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,721
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, his Commonwealth Bank card was used at the

534
00:27:04,721 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 3: our at Belmont And that's a forty minute drive for Morrissette.

535
00:27:09,241 --> 00:27:12,041
Speaker 3: And you've told me he didn't own a car, so no,

536
00:27:12,281 --> 00:27:15,241
Speaker 3: that is quite a drive and we're talking coastal towns.

537
00:27:16,441 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 3: But more importantly, the next day Aaron's bank account is closed.

538
00:27:21,201 --> 00:27:25,521
Speaker 3: I've made myself a note here about CCTV footage. Was

539
00:27:25,561 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 3: anything captured in these critical times in that February of

540
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:30,801
Speaker 3: twenty twenty.

541
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:37,321
Speaker 4: Unfortunately no is a short answer, because Aaron wasn't reported

542
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 4: missing until December twenty twenty.

543
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 3: It's reported that on the second of March twenty twenty,

544
00:27:41,921 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 3: Aaron was arrested at Valentine, which is a ten minute

545
00:27:45,721 --> 00:27:48,681
Speaker 3: drive from Belmont, where his card was last used at

546
00:27:48,681 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 3: the Audi. There, he was taken into custody, refused bail.

547
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,561
Speaker 3: He appeared in Belmont Court and no action was taken

548
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 3: and he is released. This is also noted on the

549
00:27:59,721 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 3: National Missing Person's website as the last day that Aaron

550
00:28:03,721 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 3: was cited. Tell us what you know about this last

551
00:28:08,201 --> 00:28:10,041
Speaker 3: interaction with new so War was police.

552
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 4: What I know about that day is that Aaron was

553
00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 4: seen by a member of the public wandering around the

554
00:28:17,041 --> 00:28:21,401
Speaker 4: water's edge and someone was concerned for his welfare enough

555
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 4: that they called the police.

556
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:23,761
Speaker 1: He was apparently seen.

557
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 4: Wandering in and out of the water and getting rubbish,

558
00:28:26,241 --> 00:28:28,761
Speaker 4: so he wasn't doing anything wrong so to speak, but

559
00:28:28,961 --> 00:28:32,121
Speaker 4: someone was concerned enough but his well being that they

560
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,201
Speaker 4: called the police. So the police came and attended and

561
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:39,321
Speaker 4: asked his name, to which he answered, told them who

562
00:28:39,321 --> 00:28:42,441
Speaker 4: he was, and there was some sort of warrant out

563
00:28:42,441 --> 00:28:45,401
Speaker 4: for his arrest, so they said we have to take

564
00:28:45,441 --> 00:28:47,241
Speaker 4: you back to the police station with us, and as

565
00:28:47,241 --> 00:28:50,041
Speaker 4: far as I'm aware, went back willingly with them to

566
00:28:50,081 --> 00:28:54,001
Speaker 4: the police station. So this was in the early in

567
00:28:54,041 --> 00:28:57,281
Speaker 4: the morning, and so he was put into the lock up.

568
00:28:57,921 --> 00:29:01,121
Speaker 4: He appeared in court later that same day and they

569
00:29:01,161 --> 00:29:03,881
Speaker 4: decided that he could go and they released him that

570
00:29:03,921 --> 00:29:04,441
Speaker 4: same day.

571
00:29:05,161 --> 00:29:07,401
Speaker 3: But there's a problem, isn't there Because on the police

572
00:29:07,401 --> 00:29:10,641
Speaker 3: statement they've actually listed that date as the third of

573
00:29:10,761 --> 00:29:13,161
Speaker 3: March is when he attended court, right.

574
00:29:13,921 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: Correct, Yes, they did. That is a mistake in the

575
00:29:17,001 --> 00:29:17,801
Speaker 1: police report.

576
00:29:18,681 --> 00:29:22,081
Speaker 4: There's another mistake which I think has been difficult for us,

577
00:29:22,081 --> 00:29:25,401
Speaker 4: and I finally have had that corrected more recently, in

578
00:29:25,441 --> 00:29:30,921
Speaker 4: that when he was first reported missing, the police records

579
00:29:30,961 --> 00:29:34,521
Speaker 4: stated that he was last seen on Christmas Eve in

580
00:29:34,601 --> 00:29:37,641
Speaker 4: Bonds Bay, and that was the information that was going around.

581
00:29:37,681 --> 00:29:39,921
Speaker 4: And it wasn't until I got involved a couple of

582
00:29:39,961 --> 00:29:43,641
Speaker 4: years later that I got all of the information and

583
00:29:43,641 --> 00:29:45,441
Speaker 4: I'm like, well, hang in a minute, he was actually

584
00:29:45,481 --> 00:29:49,601
Speaker 4: seen in March twenty twenty, not Christmas Eve twenty nineteen,

585
00:29:49,641 --> 00:29:52,241
Speaker 4: and the two locations like he was seen in Belmont

586
00:29:52,281 --> 00:29:55,161
Speaker 4: in court because he was in court, it's on the record,

587
00:29:55,561 --> 00:29:58,841
Speaker 4: whereas the information that was being put out to the

588
00:29:58,881 --> 00:30:02,121
Speaker 4: public and listed on the National Missing Persons Register that

589
00:30:02,161 --> 00:30:04,521
Speaker 4: he was last seen I think it was Bonald's Bay,

590
00:30:04,561 --> 00:30:07,201
Speaker 4: but nutunately, I didn't screenshot the wrong information.

591
00:30:07,321 --> 00:30:09,761
Speaker 1: I was just hell bent on getting it corrected. So

592
00:30:10,321 --> 00:30:12,561
Speaker 1: it's some four months.

593
00:30:12,281 --> 00:30:14,961
Speaker 4: Difference in when he was actually last seen, so when

594
00:30:15,041 --> 00:30:17,841
Speaker 4: the first couple of years they had been putting out

595
00:30:17,841 --> 00:30:19,001
Speaker 4: there that he was last seen.

596
00:30:19,761 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 3: Such a big problem, isn't it? And it happens so

597
00:30:21,881 --> 00:30:24,481
Speaker 3: often every time I'm talking to somebody or doing some research,

598
00:30:24,561 --> 00:30:27,361
Speaker 3: I find something that's not correct, and I just shake

599
00:30:27,401 --> 00:30:30,761
Speaker 3: my head, because you know, these people matter, and it's

600
00:30:30,761 --> 00:30:33,801
Speaker 3: someone's job to sit down and actually do that properly

601
00:30:33,881 --> 00:30:36,521
Speaker 3: and make sure and ensure that that information is correct

602
00:30:36,561 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 3: and there so it should be someone cross checking it

603
00:30:38,481 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 3: and making sure that it is absolutely one hundred percent

604
00:30:41,641 --> 00:30:43,601
Speaker 3: what needs to be put out into the ether.

605
00:30:43,841 --> 00:30:46,001
Speaker 4: And it's so hard to get it corrected once it's

606
00:30:46,041 --> 00:30:50,881
Speaker 4: out there, like, it's very difficult. I sent multiple emails

607
00:30:50,921 --> 00:30:53,681
Speaker 4: and phone calls and I finally did get it corrected,

608
00:30:53,681 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 4: but it took me a while and lots of frustration.

609
00:30:58,961 --> 00:31:01,681
Speaker 3: And Look, Aaron had his fair share of dealings with

610
00:31:01,721 --> 00:31:04,361
Speaker 3: the police over the years, him having one hundred and

611
00:31:04,441 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 3: forty eight reported events dating back to when he was

612
00:31:07,481 --> 00:31:09,841
Speaker 3: seventeen years of age, And I feel this is important

613
00:31:09,881 --> 00:31:13,841
Speaker 3: to mention as this last transaction with Aaron with the

614
00:31:13,841 --> 00:31:18,521
Speaker 3: police and then there's nothing. There's nothing since, And I

615
00:31:18,521 --> 00:31:22,681
Speaker 3: feel that's very telling. In Cassandra, I one hundred percent agree.

616
00:31:23,361 --> 00:31:27,561
Speaker 3: Are there any gaps or uncertainties in that timeline that

617
00:31:27,681 --> 00:31:30,561
Speaker 3: feels especially important or troubling to you?

618
00:31:31,321 --> 00:31:35,681
Speaker 4: Look, I think the entire time from that day when

619
00:31:35,721 --> 00:31:39,321
Speaker 4: Aaron was last seen in court and the date that

620
00:31:39,361 --> 00:31:44,281
Speaker 4: he suddenly payments were permanently canceled is very troubling to me.

621
00:31:45,401 --> 00:31:49,361
Speaker 3: Let's talk about reporting, the delays and the challenges in

622
00:31:49,641 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 3: you guys having to jump through hoops. You said that

623
00:31:52,761 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 3: it took three attempts to report Aaron missing. Can you

624
00:31:55,561 --> 00:31:58,041
Speaker 3: tell me what happened in each of those attempts and

625
00:31:58,241 --> 00:32:01,161
Speaker 3: why the first one was not accepted?

626
00:32:02,361 --> 00:32:04,041
Speaker 1: I can tell you what I know about it.

627
00:32:04,321 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 4: So, the first time that an attempt was made to

628
00:32:07,401 --> 00:32:11,081
Speaker 4: report Aaron was missing, it was by Jennifer, and Jennifer

629
00:32:11,161 --> 00:32:14,641
Speaker 4: is Aaron's younger sister. She went to a police station

630
00:32:14,761 --> 00:32:18,401
Speaker 4: on the Central Coast because that's where she lives, and

631
00:32:18,761 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 4: she tells me that the experience was very traumatic. She

632
00:32:22,521 --> 00:32:26,361
Speaker 4: walked in there concerned and where her brother was because

633
00:32:26,441 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 4: he hadn't been contact at It was out a character

634
00:32:29,241 --> 00:32:32,401
Speaker 4: that he hadn't been in touch with us, and the police,

635
00:32:32,801 --> 00:32:36,001
Speaker 4: from what she tells me, looked up his record, and

636
00:32:36,441 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 4: the way she describes it to me is that they

637
00:32:38,041 --> 00:32:41,001
Speaker 4: laughed at her and just said he's not missing. Now,

638
00:32:41,041 --> 00:32:45,601
Speaker 4: she was very traumatized by that experience. The next time

639
00:32:45,921 --> 00:32:48,401
Speaker 4: we went into the police station. I went with her

640
00:32:48,681 --> 00:32:51,561
Speaker 4: and we went to Belmont Police Station. Now Aaron was

641
00:32:51,601 --> 00:32:54,121
Speaker 4: known at Belmont Police Station because that's often where he

642
00:32:54,161 --> 00:32:57,081
Speaker 4: had to go to regularly report. This was some time

643
00:32:57,161 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 4: around about the fifteenth of December in twenty twenty.

644
00:33:00,641 --> 00:33:03,081
Speaker 1: They asked us why were there, asked us to take

645
00:33:03,121 --> 00:33:03,601
Speaker 1: a seat.

646
00:33:03,681 --> 00:33:05,401
Speaker 4: I don't know if it was a police office or

647
00:33:05,401 --> 00:33:07,921
Speaker 4: an admin type person. Well, I'm guessing it might have

648
00:33:07,961 --> 00:33:10,921
Speaker 4: been a police person because they access the information on

649
00:33:10,961 --> 00:33:13,681
Speaker 4: the computer and they said to us, look, I can

650
00:33:13,721 --> 00:33:17,361
Speaker 4: see that Aaron was interacted with on a train. We

651
00:33:17,441 --> 00:33:19,921
Speaker 4: don't believe he's missing. There's a warren out for his arrest,

652
00:33:19,921 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 4: and we think he's just hiding from us. But you know,

653
00:33:22,601 --> 00:33:25,561
Speaker 4: if he doesn't turn up, come back and see us.

654
00:33:26,041 --> 00:33:27,881
Speaker 1: So we didn't want to believe they was missing.

655
00:33:28,201 --> 00:33:31,281
Speaker 4: We accepted that and we left the police station and

656
00:33:32,161 --> 00:33:35,681
Speaker 4: time progressed, and I think in our hearts we knew

657
00:33:35,681 --> 00:33:38,001
Speaker 4: that Aaron was missing because that had passed away and

658
00:33:38,081 --> 00:33:40,601
Speaker 4: Aaron didn't come home for the funeral. So the third

659
00:33:40,641 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 4: attempt was actually made again by Jennifer, my youngest sister.

660
00:33:45,241 --> 00:33:47,561
Speaker 4: She went back to to Clee Police station on the

661
00:33:47,601 --> 00:33:51,721
Speaker 4: second of February twenty twenty one. There's another little error

662
00:33:51,721 --> 00:33:53,641
Speaker 4: here in the police report. It says that he was

663
00:33:53,721 --> 00:33:56,601
Speaker 4: reported missing at Wyong Police station, but it was actually

664
00:33:56,761 --> 00:33:58,401
Speaker 4: definitely to Clee Police station.

665
00:33:58,681 --> 00:34:01,121
Speaker 1: She has a card from the officer that was given

666
00:34:01,161 --> 00:34:01,561
Speaker 1: to her on.

667
00:34:01,521 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 4: That day from Chuklee Police station and she insisted that

668
00:34:05,241 --> 00:34:07,601
Speaker 4: he was missing and that they take the report, and

669
00:34:07,921 --> 00:34:10,841
Speaker 4: at that point in time she was given a missing

670
00:34:11,041 --> 00:34:13,001
Speaker 4: person's report number.

671
00:34:13,881 --> 00:34:16,441
Speaker 1: That's when he was officially reported missing.

672
00:34:17,321 --> 00:34:20,121
Speaker 3: Yes, it shouldn't take three attempts for you to walk

673
00:34:20,121 --> 00:34:23,841
Speaker 3: into a police station and say our brother is missing,

674
00:34:24,041 --> 00:34:26,841
Speaker 3: we have concerns for him and his welfare. Can you

675
00:34:26,881 --> 00:34:29,281
Speaker 3: please do something? And to be turned away and laughed

676
00:34:29,281 --> 00:34:33,881
Speaker 3: at is appalling on all levels. It's not okay. And

677
00:34:34,121 --> 00:34:37,121
Speaker 3: I would have thought, you know, twenty twenty those sorts

678
00:34:37,161 --> 00:34:41,281
Speaker 3: of things would have improved, particularly being so vocal with

679
00:34:41,561 --> 00:34:44,361
Speaker 3: certain cases and things that have happened in particularly New

680
00:34:44,401 --> 00:34:47,761
Speaker 3: South Wales Police with the case like Lynette Dawson's case

681
00:34:47,801 --> 00:34:51,481
Speaker 3: with Chris Dawson and my mum very much in the

682
00:34:51,601 --> 00:34:54,521
Speaker 3: news and everything that was happening in twenty nineteen, so

683
00:34:55,001 --> 00:34:56,601
Speaker 3: there was a lot of focus and a lot of

684
00:34:56,721 --> 00:34:59,521
Speaker 3: spotlight on New South Wales Police and how they'd handled

685
00:34:59,561 --> 00:35:02,201
Speaker 3: those cases. So you would hope that things would be

686
00:35:02,241 --> 00:35:06,561
Speaker 3: taken seriously and done better. I believe, like you still

687
00:35:06,601 --> 00:35:09,601
Speaker 3: at this point haven't even given official statement.

688
00:35:09,961 --> 00:35:11,681
Speaker 1: No, never been asked.

689
00:35:12,281 --> 00:35:15,401
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's crazy, and not just you, right, everybody. No

690
00:35:15,441 --> 00:35:17,601
Speaker 3: one's been asked to give a statement, formal statement.

691
00:35:17,921 --> 00:35:21,321
Speaker 4: The only formal statement is by the officer in charge

692
00:35:21,361 --> 00:35:24,721
Speaker 4: that's been looking after Aaron's case for the past I'm

693
00:35:24,761 --> 00:35:26,601
Speaker 4: going to say three years just to make it a

694
00:35:26,681 --> 00:35:27,281
Speaker 4: round number.

695
00:35:27,561 --> 00:35:30,161
Speaker 1: But yeah, no one in our family has been interviewed.

696
00:35:30,241 --> 00:35:33,121
Speaker 4: There's been lots of people spoken to, but there are

697
00:35:33,161 --> 00:35:36,641
Speaker 4: no official statements other than that one. We all just

698
00:35:36,721 --> 00:35:39,161
Speaker 4: lived in our own little bubbles for a while and

699
00:35:40,041 --> 00:35:43,081
Speaker 4: unfortunately that was the time when Aaron was missing and

700
00:35:43,121 --> 00:35:44,081
Speaker 4: we just didn't know it.

701
00:35:44,641 --> 00:35:47,201
Speaker 3: And look, there's quite a few things that have happened

702
00:35:47,281 --> 00:35:50,001
Speaker 3: that we know about right that are documented. So let's

703
00:35:50,041 --> 00:35:53,401
Speaker 3: talk about those because someone might remember something, someone might

704
00:35:53,441 --> 00:35:56,481
Speaker 3: have actually been working at Centrelink and remember this transaction

705
00:35:56,681 --> 00:35:59,521
Speaker 3: with Aaron or you just never know. Just to get

706
00:35:59,561 --> 00:36:01,681
Speaker 3: it out there and see what we can find from

707
00:36:01,721 --> 00:36:04,961
Speaker 3: that information. But on the seventh of November in twenty

708
00:36:05,881 --> 00:36:09,761
Speaker 3: it's noted that Aaron is no longer a center Link customer.

709
00:36:10,401 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 3: How did the family find out about this?

710
00:36:13,161 --> 00:36:16,041
Speaker 4: The way I know for sure is that Dad passed

711
00:36:16,041 --> 00:36:20,801
Speaker 4: away on the twenty seventh of November. Post that and

712
00:36:20,841 --> 00:36:23,281
Speaker 4: post the funeral, we had to clean out Dad's house.

713
00:36:23,401 --> 00:36:25,961
Speaker 4: Dad was renting, so we needed to clean out his house.

714
00:36:26,001 --> 00:36:29,961
Speaker 4: So we were all there shortly after that and cleaning up,

715
00:36:30,001 --> 00:36:32,841
Speaker 4: getting rid of stuff, and we intercepted, like obviously, we

716
00:36:32,841 --> 00:36:34,881
Speaker 4: were checking the letterbox, you know, because we had to

717
00:36:34,881 --> 00:36:38,001
Speaker 4: wrap up Dad's affairs as well, you know, cancel cards

718
00:36:38,081 --> 00:36:40,281
Speaker 4: and those kind of things. So we intercepted a letter

719
00:36:40,361 --> 00:36:44,081
Speaker 4: from sen Alink addressed to Aaron, and we're like, oh,

720
00:36:44,201 --> 00:36:46,801
Speaker 4: this could be something like maybe we'll be able to

721
00:36:46,801 --> 00:36:49,321
Speaker 4: find out something wasn't addressed us. I know you're not

722
00:36:49,361 --> 00:36:50,961
Speaker 4: supposed to do but we opened the letter. You know,

723
00:36:51,201 --> 00:36:53,641
Speaker 4: we were desperate to getting contact with him. We've been

724
00:36:53,681 --> 00:36:57,401
Speaker 4: trying so hard and messaging everyone that we knew that

725
00:36:57,401 --> 00:36:59,161
Speaker 4: that might be able to help us find out where

726
00:36:59,161 --> 00:36:59,761
Speaker 4: Aaron was.

727
00:36:59,841 --> 00:37:02,641
Speaker 1: And the letter simply stated, your job.

728
00:37:02,481 --> 00:37:05,521
Speaker 4: Seeker payment has been canceled due to you not attending

729
00:37:05,521 --> 00:37:08,921
Speaker 4: an appointment on the eighth of December, so an in

730
00:37:08,961 --> 00:37:12,361
Speaker 4: person appointment. So during COVID, I think I'm not one

731
00:37:12,401 --> 00:37:14,161
Speaker 4: hundred percent sure, but I think the way that it

732
00:37:14,201 --> 00:37:18,921
Speaker 4: worked is that people receiving benefits weren't needing to appear

733
00:37:19,241 --> 00:37:20,881
Speaker 4: for their appointments face to face.

734
00:37:21,361 --> 00:37:23,401
Speaker 1: Everything kind of went online and electronic.

735
00:37:23,641 --> 00:37:26,561
Speaker 4: And I don't think Aaron had had to report that

736
00:37:26,641 --> 00:37:29,281
Speaker 4: whole entire time from March through to that point. And

737
00:37:29,321 --> 00:37:31,081
Speaker 4: I think that as we're coming out of COVID, they

738
00:37:31,121 --> 00:37:34,201
Speaker 4: were trying to like start to get people to turn

739
00:37:34,281 --> 00:37:36,321
Speaker 4: up for appointments, and you know, when you're on a

740
00:37:36,401 --> 00:37:38,761
Speaker 4: job seek or I believe, you're supposed to still try

741
00:37:38,801 --> 00:37:40,721
Speaker 4: and find jobs and that kind of thing.

742
00:37:40,841 --> 00:37:43,121
Speaker 1: So because he didn't turn up for.

743
00:37:43,121 --> 00:37:46,041
Speaker 4: This appointment that they scheduled, they canceled his centalink and

744
00:37:46,121 --> 00:37:48,841
Speaker 4: where just like, well, if he's not getting any senalink

745
00:37:48,881 --> 00:37:51,401
Speaker 4: and he's not getting money from us, Like, how's he surviving?

746
00:37:51,441 --> 00:37:52,721
Speaker 1: Where's he getting money from?

747
00:37:53,281 --> 00:37:56,481
Speaker 4: So I remember ringing Senate Link and speaking to someone

748
00:37:56,681 --> 00:37:59,281
Speaker 4: and saying to them, look, we've received this letter. I

749
00:37:59,321 --> 00:38:01,281
Speaker 4: know you probably can't talk to me. It's addressed to

750
00:38:01,281 --> 00:38:05,321
Speaker 4: my brother. But my brother is missing. We can't find

751
00:38:05,441 --> 00:38:08,081
Speaker 4: my brother, and I'm just hoping that you might be

752
00:38:08,121 --> 00:38:11,881
Speaker 4: able to tell me if anyone's spoken to him. They

753
00:38:12,081 --> 00:38:15,601
Speaker 4: advise us that they can't for privacy reasons, and they said,

754
00:38:15,601 --> 00:38:17,601
Speaker 4: but what we can do is we can take your

755
00:38:17,681 --> 00:38:20,881
Speaker 4: name and your number, put it on his file, and

756
00:38:20,961 --> 00:38:23,881
Speaker 4: if he does contact us, or there is a phone

757
00:38:23,881 --> 00:38:26,521
Speaker 4: call or anything like that, we can pass on the message.

758
00:38:26,681 --> 00:38:29,281
Speaker 4: So that's what I did that day. I just had

759
00:38:29,321 --> 00:38:32,001
Speaker 4: to leave my name in number and just ask for

760
00:38:32,041 --> 00:38:33,441
Speaker 4: Aaron to contact.

761
00:38:33,001 --> 00:38:35,921
Speaker 3: Us, wait for somebody to bring you rather than trying

762
00:38:35,961 --> 00:38:36,361
Speaker 3: to help.

763
00:38:36,841 --> 00:38:40,961
Speaker 4: Yeah, And obviously that never happened because Aaron Slink was canceled.

764
00:38:41,041 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: He was never in touch with Cenelink again ever.

765
00:38:43,721 --> 00:38:46,561
Speaker 3: And look, I'm sorry to your dad passed away twenty

766
00:38:46,641 --> 00:38:50,561
Speaker 3: days later, and losing your dad is such a huge loss,

767
00:38:51,201 --> 00:38:53,801
Speaker 3: and I'm so sorry for you and your family, because

768
00:38:53,801 --> 00:38:56,041
Speaker 3: that's just an added trauma that you have to then

769
00:38:56,881 --> 00:38:59,761
Speaker 3: layer on when you're already dealing with the stress of

770
00:38:59,801 --> 00:39:02,961
Speaker 3: not knowing what's happened to Aaron and someone passing away

771
00:39:03,081 --> 00:39:06,641
Speaker 3: and not knowing what's happened to your loved one. That's

772
00:39:06,681 --> 00:39:09,841
Speaker 3: a whole not a layer of stress of having someone

773
00:39:09,881 --> 00:39:12,921
Speaker 3: who is missing in your world. And your dad, as

774
00:39:12,961 --> 00:39:14,841
Speaker 3: you said, did pass away on the twenty seventh of

775
00:39:15,001 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 3: November that year.

776
00:39:16,601 --> 00:39:20,281
Speaker 1: How is your mom going? My mum and dad were separated.

777
00:39:20,481 --> 00:39:24,201
Speaker 4: Obviously Mum she still cared, so she was sad that

778
00:39:24,281 --> 00:39:28,041
Speaker 4: we had lost our dad. But in the context of Aaron,

779
00:39:28,521 --> 00:39:32,401
Speaker 4: Mum is just devastated. She cries a lot, and I

780
00:39:32,441 --> 00:39:35,721
Speaker 4: really don't know how she copes. Having my own children,

781
00:39:36,201 --> 00:39:40,161
Speaker 4: I can't even fathom the feeling of what I would

782
00:39:40,201 --> 00:39:42,201
Speaker 4: do or how I would feel if one of those

783
00:39:42,521 --> 00:39:46,761
Speaker 4: children just disappeared one day. So I support her as

784
00:39:46,841 --> 00:39:52,201
Speaker 4: much as I can, and I'm gutted because I, like

785
00:39:52,241 --> 00:39:54,161
Speaker 4: I said, I just I don't know how she carries on,

786
00:39:54,321 --> 00:39:59,041
Speaker 4: but she does, and she's always willing to help me

787
00:39:59,241 --> 00:40:02,041
Speaker 4: as much as she can in my search for Aaron,

788
00:40:02,121 --> 00:40:05,641
Speaker 4: and often she has trouble putting things into work words. Buddy,

789
00:40:05,641 --> 00:40:07,761
Speaker 4: pair and I get together and we try and talk

790
00:40:07,801 --> 00:40:10,481
Speaker 4: about it. Once we get past the tears, then she's

791
00:40:11,241 --> 00:40:15,361
Speaker 4: able to smile and laugh about memories that she has

792
00:40:15,361 --> 00:40:18,081
Speaker 4: of Aaron, and you know, the memories come back and

793
00:40:18,121 --> 00:40:20,521
Speaker 4: she says, oh, he messaged me on this day or

794
00:40:20,521 --> 00:40:22,601
Speaker 4: I remember he said he was going to Mummy to

795
00:40:22,681 --> 00:40:23,481
Speaker 4: travel around in.

796
00:40:23,441 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: Her motor home.

797
00:40:24,921 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 4: And see, that's another thing with that period of time

798
00:40:27,041 --> 00:40:28,481
Speaker 4: where Aaron was missing.

799
00:40:29,041 --> 00:40:32,041
Speaker 1: Mum was traveling, so she wasn't at her regular place

800
00:40:32,241 --> 00:40:33,001
Speaker 1: of a boat like.

801
00:40:33,081 --> 00:40:35,881
Speaker 4: She didn't have a home to speak of herself. Her

802
00:40:35,881 --> 00:40:37,801
Speaker 4: home was her motor home, so it was moving, but

803
00:40:38,201 --> 00:40:39,121
Speaker 4: that was still in touch.

804
00:40:40,481 --> 00:40:43,841
Speaker 3: We talked about at the very beginning that he didn't

805
00:40:43,881 --> 00:40:47,041
Speaker 3: have a phone, but he messaged your mum by a messenger.

806
00:40:47,081 --> 00:40:49,081
Speaker 3: And one of the questions I asked you when I

807
00:40:49,121 --> 00:40:51,321
Speaker 3: was doing my research putting this together so we could

808
00:40:51,361 --> 00:40:54,081
Speaker 3: have a good chat about it, was how would he

809
00:40:55,081 --> 00:40:58,321
Speaker 3: communicate via Facebook if he didn't have a phone.

810
00:40:59,201 --> 00:41:01,681
Speaker 4: So he did have phones over the years, he would

811
00:41:01,681 --> 00:41:04,841
Speaker 4: always lose them. I can't remember the last time that

812
00:41:04,881 --> 00:41:06,681
Speaker 4: he actually had his own phone. I've got lots of

813
00:41:06,721 --> 00:41:09,241
Speaker 4: phone numbers like, I have a contact in my phone

814
00:41:09,241 --> 00:41:11,281
Speaker 4: called Aaron, and it's at the top of the list

815
00:41:11,281 --> 00:41:14,361
Speaker 4: because it starts with double A and there's probably about

816
00:41:14,521 --> 00:41:16,321
Speaker 4: half a dozen phone numbers listed there.

817
00:41:17,161 --> 00:41:20,521
Speaker 3: Can you share with us what authorities have done to

818
00:41:20,641 --> 00:41:22,161
Speaker 3: help find your brother so far?

819
00:41:23,001 --> 00:41:25,161
Speaker 4: I think that they've done everything that they need to

820
00:41:25,201 --> 00:41:28,521
Speaker 4: do to tick boxes. In the beginning, I think the

821
00:41:28,561 --> 00:41:31,281
Speaker 4: case was passed around a lot. Like from what I'm aware,

822
00:41:31,481 --> 00:41:34,681
Speaker 4: I wasn't heavily involved in the beginning due to my

823
00:41:34,761 --> 00:41:39,921
Speaker 4: own personal reasons. My sister was the one who reported him,

824
00:41:39,921 --> 00:41:41,561
Speaker 4: and then she would try and stay in touch. And

825
00:41:41,641 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 4: I know that the case was passed around a lot

826
00:41:44,521 --> 00:41:47,961
Speaker 4: to different officers. I know it did land with one

827
00:41:48,081 --> 00:41:51,721
Speaker 4: permanently for a little while, but there was certainly no

828
00:41:51,841 --> 00:41:55,321
Speaker 4: regular updates. The officer in charge that's been looking after

829
00:41:55,401 --> 00:41:57,881
Speaker 4: Aaron's case for the past i think it's around about

830
00:41:57,921 --> 00:42:01,641
Speaker 4: three years, has been out to speak to people that

831
00:42:01,681 --> 00:42:04,161
Speaker 4: we have told them that we know that our associates

832
00:42:04,161 --> 00:42:10,361
Speaker 4: in Aaron's life, But unfortunately, the police's opinion of those

833
00:42:10,561 --> 00:42:14,321
Speaker 4: people is that they're unreliable, that they're drug users, that

834
00:42:14,401 --> 00:42:17,601
Speaker 4: they aren't able to recall time and place, so they're

835
00:42:17,641 --> 00:42:20,321
Speaker 4: just unreliable. I think that they've done all the checks

836
00:42:20,321 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 4: that they have to do by law, Like they write

837
00:42:22,481 --> 00:42:24,401
Speaker 4: to all the different banks and they ask if there's

838
00:42:24,441 --> 00:42:27,001
Speaker 4: any bank accounts. They write to the telcodes and they

839
00:42:27,041 --> 00:42:29,641
Speaker 4: ask if there's any own accounts in the people's names.

840
00:42:29,961 --> 00:42:31,881
Speaker 4: I definitely feel like there's more that they could have

841
00:42:32,241 --> 00:42:34,281
Speaker 4: done what they need to do.

842
00:42:36,441 --> 00:42:39,321
Speaker 3: And look, you and I were talking about this yesterday actually,

843
00:42:39,361 --> 00:42:41,441
Speaker 3: and I said to you, if you're okay for us

844
00:42:41,481 --> 00:42:45,321
Speaker 3: to bring this point in because it is an interesting

845
00:42:45,721 --> 00:42:49,681
Speaker 3: conversation and information I guess to help people in if

846
00:42:49,681 --> 00:42:52,521
Speaker 3: they find themselves in this space, right because we were

847
00:42:52,521 --> 00:42:56,001
Speaker 3: talking about the fact that there are telephone conversations and

848
00:42:56,001 --> 00:43:01,081
Speaker 3: tel co information, and there's conversations you are aware of

849
00:43:01,561 --> 00:43:05,161
Speaker 3: from his aid worker who was assisting him and helping

850
00:43:05,241 --> 00:43:09,801
Speaker 3: him with his mental health issues, and they all keep records,

851
00:43:10,121 --> 00:43:14,081
Speaker 3: but police are not able to access any of those records.

852
00:43:14,121 --> 00:43:16,281
Speaker 3: And I was telling you that I had a similar

853
00:43:16,321 --> 00:43:20,361
Speaker 3: problem even with the ATO, when police were trying to

854
00:43:20,641 --> 00:43:24,041
Speaker 3: access information about my mum through the ATO to see

855
00:43:24,041 --> 00:43:26,961
Speaker 3: if she'd accessed her super they were told that they

856
00:43:26,961 --> 00:43:31,041
Speaker 3: were not allowed to privy to that information unless the

857
00:43:31,041 --> 00:43:35,881
Speaker 3: person was incarcerated, and this is where the conversation comes

858
00:43:35,921 --> 00:43:40,201
Speaker 3: in about getting a grant of probate. And recently I

859
00:43:40,281 --> 00:43:43,681
Speaker 3: have mentioned to a couple of people who I've spoken

860
00:43:43,721 --> 00:43:47,601
Speaker 3: to in this space about maybe the idea of getting

861
00:43:47,601 --> 00:43:51,881
Speaker 3: a grant of probate done, because what I learned through

862
00:43:51,921 --> 00:43:55,081
Speaker 3: my own mum's disappearance was that once I got a

863
00:43:55,121 --> 00:43:58,321
Speaker 3: death certificate from the coroner's court, and as hard as

864
00:43:58,361 --> 00:44:00,521
Speaker 3: that is to have, especially when you don't have a

865
00:44:00,561 --> 00:44:03,281
Speaker 3: body and you don't have an answer. And I know

866
00:44:03,401 --> 00:44:06,001
Speaker 3: you guys have recently just been through the inquest and

867
00:44:06,921 --> 00:44:11,081
Speaker 3: Aaron has been declared deceased. I know it's only pretty

868
00:44:11,081 --> 00:44:13,441
Speaker 3: fresh style and you haven't got a gertificate yet, But

869
00:44:13,721 --> 00:44:17,601
Speaker 3: getting the gertificate actually opens up a whole barrage of

870
00:44:17,841 --> 00:44:21,161
Speaker 3: things for you guys with the privacy problem, because you

871
00:44:21,201 --> 00:44:23,441
Speaker 3: can then go and apply for a grant of probate,

872
00:44:23,961 --> 00:44:27,321
Speaker 3: and the grand of probate allows that person who is

873
00:44:27,401 --> 00:44:31,761
Speaker 3: granted that to act on that person's behalf. So that

874
00:44:31,841 --> 00:44:34,921
Speaker 3: might be a good way when we're talking about not

875
00:44:35,041 --> 00:44:38,921
Speaker 3: knowing what else can be done, getting that document potentially

876
00:44:39,041 --> 00:44:41,921
Speaker 3: might open up the door to police to be able

877
00:44:41,961 --> 00:44:44,081
Speaker 3: to go and investigate more or to you, as the

878
00:44:44,161 --> 00:44:47,641
Speaker 3: family members and the person who is granted that grant

879
00:44:48,041 --> 00:44:52,161
Speaker 3: to be able to access Aaron's private information, which essentially

880
00:44:52,281 --> 00:44:55,401
Speaker 3: might help understand where he was, who he was with,

881
00:44:55,761 --> 00:44:58,961
Speaker 3: how he was feeling, what he was doing, what was

882
00:44:58,961 --> 00:45:01,561
Speaker 3: happening with his center link. Because they won't tell you anything.

883
00:45:01,641 --> 00:45:04,721
Speaker 3: They will just shut you down, and you're in this

884
00:45:04,761 --> 00:45:08,201
Speaker 3: world of hell because no one will tell you anything

885
00:45:08,281 --> 00:45:11,521
Speaker 3: due to privacy. But that grant of probate certificate is

886
00:45:11,801 --> 00:45:14,601
Speaker 3: worth its weight in gold enabling you to be able

887
00:45:14,641 --> 00:45:17,521
Speaker 3: to access information that has previously been shut down.

888
00:45:18,081 --> 00:45:20,321
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's definitely something that I want to do. I'm

889
00:45:20,521 --> 00:45:23,681
Speaker 4: going to apply for the death certificate as much as

890
00:45:23,721 --> 00:45:26,121
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't want that piece of paper, Like

891
00:45:26,201 --> 00:45:29,201
Speaker 4: you said, without a body having a death certificate just

892
00:45:29,441 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 4: seems really surreal, Like it.

893
00:45:31,921 --> 00:45:33,081
Speaker 1: Just doesn't feel right.

894
00:45:33,161 --> 00:45:36,201
Speaker 4: But I want to know where Aaron went that day

895
00:45:36,241 --> 00:45:38,401
Speaker 4: he left court, because that is the last time he

896
00:45:38,481 --> 00:45:41,761
Speaker 4: was seeing and he had to go somewhere. His settlink

897
00:45:42,241 --> 00:45:46,601
Speaker 4: wasn't canceled until nine ten months later. It was being

898
00:45:46,641 --> 00:45:51,121
Speaker 4: claimed and paid every fortnight for that whole entire time.

899
00:45:51,201 --> 00:45:52,961
Speaker 4: So I really feel like if I could find out

900
00:45:52,961 --> 00:45:55,081
Speaker 4: where he went that day, and I know the court

901
00:45:55,121 --> 00:45:59,001
Speaker 4: records say that they have two addresses that was provided

902
00:45:59,041 --> 00:46:00,921
Speaker 4: to them for him to go and live.

903
00:46:01,481 --> 00:46:04,081
Speaker 1: I feel like if I could get the addresses.

904
00:46:03,681 --> 00:46:06,161
Speaker 4: Which at the moment I can't because Legal aid said

905
00:46:06,521 --> 00:46:09,841
Speaker 4: for privacy reasons that we can't have that information. So yeah,

906
00:46:09,841 --> 00:46:12,081
Speaker 4: I'm definitely going to pursue that death certificate and that

907
00:46:12,281 --> 00:46:15,441
Speaker 4: certificate of probate and see if that can get us somewhere,

908
00:46:15,481 --> 00:46:17,481
Speaker 4: even if it's just to feed the information back to

909
00:46:17,521 --> 00:46:18,241
Speaker 4: the authorities.

910
00:46:19,401 --> 00:46:25,201
Speaker 3: So we do know information whereby Kim Duncan, who was

911
00:46:25,281 --> 00:46:31,121
Speaker 3: Aaron's partner, was said to have been claiming Aaron's Center

912
00:46:31,201 --> 00:46:35,121
Speaker 3: Link benefits. I don't know if you're aware of how

913
00:46:35,161 --> 00:46:37,001
Speaker 3: long that was or if it was for the whole

914
00:46:37,081 --> 00:46:40,881
Speaker 3: nine months up until he Center Link ended. She did

915
00:46:40,921 --> 00:46:44,801
Speaker 3: go before the courts with regards to this and claimed

916
00:46:44,881 --> 00:46:48,521
Speaker 3: that she would meet Aaron and hand over the money

917
00:46:48,521 --> 00:46:51,881
Speaker 3: to him. Remembering this is during COVID as well, so

918
00:46:51,881 --> 00:46:54,801
Speaker 3: people didn't have to go up and do face to face,

919
00:46:54,841 --> 00:46:58,681
Speaker 3: so it was a login situation on a computer and

920
00:46:59,041 --> 00:47:03,401
Speaker 3: accessing the payment that way. But she was not charged

921
00:47:03,521 --> 00:47:06,921
Speaker 3: with any offense. There's so many questions, and you know,

922
00:47:07,001 --> 00:47:09,281
Speaker 3: it makes it all the more difficult for the family,

923
00:47:09,321 --> 00:47:10,201
Speaker 3: doesn't it.

924
00:47:10,201 --> 00:47:13,081
Speaker 1: It certainly does, yes, like it certainly does.

925
00:47:14,121 --> 00:47:16,481
Speaker 3: And you mentioned as well that Aaron had like a

926
00:47:16,521 --> 00:47:19,681
Speaker 3: little section out the back of your dad's Was that

927
00:47:19,801 --> 00:47:21,761
Speaker 3: like a bush when you mentioned.

928
00:47:21,521 --> 00:47:26,201
Speaker 4: That, I think so. I have seen some photos. The

929
00:47:26,321 --> 00:47:29,481
Speaker 4: sees did a search. That's the one search that they

930
00:47:29,481 --> 00:47:31,801
Speaker 4: did of him. Based on if anyone asked me, I

931
00:47:31,841 --> 00:47:34,041
Speaker 4: would have said, no, he didn't live out there, But

932
00:47:34,561 --> 00:47:38,481
Speaker 4: I don't know everything. And it was reported by people

933
00:47:38,481 --> 00:47:40,641
Speaker 4: that knew Aaron that he had a shack out the

934
00:47:40,641 --> 00:47:43,481
Speaker 4: back of my dad's house. And so when the sees

935
00:47:43,561 --> 00:47:46,001
Speaker 4: did a search of that area, they took some photos

936
00:47:46,001 --> 00:47:47,921
Speaker 4: of some it was more like just some pieces of

937
00:47:47,961 --> 00:47:50,961
Speaker 4: color bond fencing. Actually, it reminds me of when we

938
00:47:50,961 --> 00:47:52,681
Speaker 4: were younger and we used to make cubby.

939
00:47:52,521 --> 00:47:53,361
Speaker 1: Houses, you know.

940
00:47:53,521 --> 00:47:55,401
Speaker 4: Aaron used to do that a lot in the bush

941
00:47:55,441 --> 00:47:58,801
Speaker 4: because funnily enough, my dad's house where Dad was living,

942
00:47:58,921 --> 00:48:01,521
Speaker 4: is actually in the same street where we grew living up,

943
00:48:01,721 --> 00:48:03,521
Speaker 4: just at the other end, and so there's quite a

944
00:48:03,561 --> 00:48:05,801
Speaker 4: lot of bush at the back and you could walk

945
00:48:05,801 --> 00:48:07,961
Speaker 4: all the way over to the beach from where we lived.

946
00:48:08,001 --> 00:48:10,361
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was kind of like a cubby house

947
00:48:10,401 --> 00:48:11,441
Speaker 1: really that he had built.

948
00:48:12,001 --> 00:48:14,081
Speaker 3: Well, at least they did a search, but they didn't

949
00:48:14,121 --> 00:48:15,161
Speaker 3: find anything.

950
00:48:14,961 --> 00:48:18,601
Speaker 4: Didn't find any personal belongings or anything that would evidence

951
00:48:18,641 --> 00:48:20,481
Speaker 4: that it was where he was staying. It could have

952
00:48:20,561 --> 00:48:22,681
Speaker 4: been it could have been a cubby house that some

953
00:48:22,761 --> 00:48:23,521
Speaker 4: kids had built.

954
00:48:23,961 --> 00:48:24,681
Speaker 1: You just don't know.

955
00:48:25,321 --> 00:48:27,401
Speaker 3: And were you included in that search.

956
00:48:28,321 --> 00:48:30,681
Speaker 1: No, we were actually told we weren't allowed to attend.

957
00:48:31,041 --> 00:48:34,761
Speaker 4: My sister Rebecca wanted to attend that search in person,

958
00:48:34,841 --> 00:48:37,241
Speaker 4: and we were told that she was not allowed to attend,

959
00:48:37,561 --> 00:48:40,681
Speaker 4: like it was a police search, So we weren't allowed

960
00:48:40,681 --> 00:48:41,321
Speaker 4: to be part of that.

961
00:48:41,721 --> 00:48:43,721
Speaker 3: But they came back to you in an email, didn't

962
00:48:43,761 --> 00:48:46,601
Speaker 3: they just giving you some feedback on what had happened.

963
00:48:47,081 --> 00:48:47,281
Speaker 1: Yeah.

964
00:48:47,281 --> 00:48:49,401
Speaker 4: I think it was a one line email, just saying

965
00:48:49,441 --> 00:48:52,161
Speaker 4: that the search was conducted, went for a couple of hours.

966
00:48:52,201 --> 00:48:54,561
Speaker 4: They were assisted by the sees, and they didn't find

967
00:48:54,601 --> 00:48:56,321
Speaker 4: Aaron or any of Aaron's belongings.

968
00:48:56,361 --> 00:48:59,401
Speaker 1: It was like one or two sentences long. That was it.

969
00:48:59,801 --> 00:49:03,201
Speaker 3: And that's pretty much up until it was decided it

970
00:49:03,241 --> 00:49:05,041
Speaker 3: was going to go to an inquest where I could

971
00:49:05,121 --> 00:49:07,841
Speaker 3: and see in the things that I've read, there's a

972
00:49:07,881 --> 00:49:10,641
Speaker 3: bit of a flurry trying to cross some tees and

973
00:49:10,681 --> 00:49:12,681
Speaker 3: dot some eyes to give it to the coroner. I

974
00:49:12,681 --> 00:49:16,161
Speaker 3: would assume looking at it too, and knowing what I

975
00:49:16,241 --> 00:49:19,281
Speaker 3: know through my own investigation and my mum, there's definitely

976
00:49:19,321 --> 00:49:22,881
Speaker 3: more that can be looked into there. So I'm hoping

977
00:49:22,961 --> 00:49:25,921
Speaker 3: that us having a chat and talking about a few

978
00:49:25,921 --> 00:49:28,841
Speaker 3: different options might sort of give you that little bit

979
00:49:28,881 --> 00:49:31,481
Speaker 3: of information. Because no one ever tells you this stuff, Cass.

980
00:49:32,121 --> 00:49:33,961
Speaker 3: No one comes up to you after you have an

981
00:49:34,001 --> 00:49:37,081
Speaker 3: inquest and explains to you how to apply for a certificate.

982
00:49:37,081 --> 00:49:40,001
Speaker 3: When you have a missing person, it's a different situation.

983
00:49:40,201 --> 00:49:42,361
Speaker 3: Like my dad passed away and I had his death

984
00:49:42,361 --> 00:49:46,161
Speaker 3: certificate in two weeks, no questions asked. I was reading

985
00:49:46,201 --> 00:49:49,641
Speaker 3: between the lines and just seems that police were trying

986
00:49:49,681 --> 00:49:52,401
Speaker 3: to get all of this information leading up to Aaron's inquest,

987
00:49:53,041 --> 00:49:55,721
Speaker 3: which was held on the tenth of September twenty twenty five,

988
00:49:55,881 --> 00:49:59,921
Speaker 3: so only a couple of months ago. My question is

989
00:49:59,961 --> 00:50:01,961
Speaker 3: why were they not doing this at the time of

990
00:50:02,001 --> 00:50:04,841
Speaker 3: Aaron's disappearance five years earlier. And what I'm talking about

991
00:50:04,921 --> 00:50:07,801
Speaker 3: is them going and talking to people and looking at

992
00:50:07,801 --> 00:50:11,641
Speaker 3: phone numbers that were connected to Aaron and finding out

993
00:50:11,681 --> 00:50:15,521
Speaker 3: information that could potentially help find him or locate him

994
00:50:15,641 --> 00:50:18,761
Speaker 3: at that time when he was actually listed as missing

995
00:50:18,801 --> 00:50:19,761
Speaker 3: and something was wrong.

996
00:50:20,481 --> 00:50:23,321
Speaker 4: Yes, that's where it just feels quite procedural. It feels

997
00:50:23,321 --> 00:50:26,321
Speaker 4: like in the beginning, they only did what they needed

998
00:50:26,321 --> 00:50:29,361
Speaker 4: to do to tick the boxes. And then I think

999
00:50:29,401 --> 00:50:32,201
Speaker 4: that the flurry that you're talking about came from a

1000
00:50:32,201 --> 00:50:35,041
Speaker 4: couple of places. So when the file was sent to

1001
00:50:35,761 --> 00:50:37,241
Speaker 4: I don't know the proper name of it, but it's

1002
00:50:37,281 --> 00:50:40,641
Speaker 4: a coordination like the Missing Person's Unit, but I don't

1003
00:50:40,641 --> 00:50:41,961
Speaker 4: think it's called that anymore.

1004
00:50:42,041 --> 00:50:44,241
Speaker 3: The Missing Person's Coordination Center.

1005
00:50:44,161 --> 00:50:47,321
Speaker 4: Perhaps that's what it is, but I from what I understand,

1006
00:50:47,361 --> 00:50:50,521
Speaker 4: there is the police, an officer in charge of the case,

1007
00:50:50,761 --> 00:50:55,961
Speaker 4: is responsible for providing updates, regular updates to that coordination center,

1008
00:50:56,361 --> 00:51:00,921
Speaker 4: and then they come back with suggestions on things that

1009
00:51:01,041 --> 00:51:02,881
Speaker 4: might have been missed or what they can do. And

1010
00:51:02,921 --> 00:51:06,681
Speaker 4: I know that there's a time frame after someone's been

1011
00:51:06,681 --> 00:51:09,721
Speaker 4: missing where they have to prepare a report, and I

1012
00:51:09,761 --> 00:51:12,601
Speaker 4: think it was the feedback from that report, So the

1013
00:51:12,601 --> 00:51:16,641
Speaker 4: feedback from the Missing Person's Coordination Center and also feedback

1014
00:51:16,681 --> 00:51:21,041
Speaker 4: from when that report was submitted that led them to

1015
00:51:21,881 --> 00:51:24,841
Speaker 4: have to do extra things before the inquest happened.

1016
00:51:25,441 --> 00:51:27,681
Speaker 3: So I think what you're talking about is a form

1017
00:51:27,721 --> 00:51:30,641
Speaker 3: that's called a piece seventy nine and B form, right,

1018
00:51:30,721 --> 00:51:33,641
Speaker 3: and that form is really important. And the stipulation with

1019
00:51:33,721 --> 00:51:35,761
Speaker 3: that form is it's supposed to be filled in within

1020
00:51:35,841 --> 00:51:39,441
Speaker 3: twelve months of a person not being cited or spoken

1021
00:51:39,481 --> 00:51:42,001
Speaker 3: to by a next of kin. And that form then

1022
00:51:42,401 --> 00:51:44,561
Speaker 3: is done by New South Wales Police in this case,

1023
00:51:44,601 --> 00:51:46,521
Speaker 3: and then it gets sent to the coroner, and the

1024
00:51:46,601 --> 00:51:48,721
Speaker 3: coroner then has to make a decision as to whether

1025
00:51:48,721 --> 00:51:52,761
Speaker 3: they're going to hold an inquest or not. Okay, such

1026
00:51:52,761 --> 00:51:55,601
Speaker 3: a hard road, my friend, Such a hard road, and

1027
00:51:55,681 --> 00:51:57,601
Speaker 3: you know, you sort of want to go in there

1028
00:51:57,641 --> 00:52:00,761
Speaker 3: with all these questions to be answered, and when you

1029
00:52:00,841 --> 00:52:04,841
Speaker 3: walk away and there's questions that remain unanswered, it just

1030
00:52:05,121 --> 00:52:08,641
Speaker 3: adds to your load, doesn't it. And it's us to

1031
00:52:09,401 --> 00:52:12,281
Speaker 3: a point of frustration, I think, because I think it's important,

1032
00:52:12,321 --> 00:52:14,721
Speaker 3: Like we get older and we start to forget things,

1033
00:52:14,801 --> 00:52:18,401
Speaker 3: and in my case, people pass away and you need

1034
00:52:18,441 --> 00:52:21,801
Speaker 3: to have that information there because it's it's the person

1035
00:52:21,921 --> 00:52:25,321
Speaker 3: still missing and we need to make sure that every

1036
00:52:25,401 --> 00:52:28,561
Speaker 3: bit of information is captured and captured.

1037
00:52:28,161 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 4: Properly because someone might want to continue the search when

1038
00:52:31,481 --> 00:52:32,481
Speaker 4: we're not here anymore.

1039
00:52:32,961 --> 00:52:35,441
Speaker 3: Yeah, you just never know, and it's so important to

1040
00:52:35,481 --> 00:52:39,681
Speaker 3: just capture the lot in my opinion, So in what

1041
00:52:39,761 --> 00:52:43,681
Speaker 3: ways do you feel, Cassandra that the system failed Aaron

1042
00:52:44,321 --> 00:52:49,121
Speaker 3: or your family and I'm talking about social services, media, police?

1043
00:52:50,121 --> 00:52:52,441
Speaker 3: What do you think are the failures there for you guys?

1044
00:52:53,041 --> 00:52:57,521
Speaker 4: The failures a It's a big question, Like I mean,

1045
00:52:57,561 --> 00:53:01,481
Speaker 4: there's simple things like not taking as seriously or helping

1046
00:53:01,521 --> 00:53:03,281
Speaker 4: us when we went in there to report in missing.

1047
00:53:03,561 --> 00:53:07,081
Speaker 4: Like maybe they need some sort of social worker to

1048
00:53:07,161 --> 00:53:09,481
Speaker 4: be available or to get in touch with you. Like

1049
00:53:09,521 --> 00:53:11,721
Speaker 4: if someone turns up to the police station and says,

1050
00:53:11,801 --> 00:53:14,081
Speaker 4: I'm really concerned I haven't seen my brother in this

1051
00:53:14,121 --> 00:53:16,761
Speaker 4: amount of time, and they go, oh, okay, well, like

1052
00:53:16,841 --> 00:53:19,201
Speaker 4: I really don't think he's missing, but you know, come

1053
00:53:19,281 --> 00:53:21,681
Speaker 4: back if he doesn't turn up, Well, maybe maybe they

1054
00:53:21,721 --> 00:53:24,321
Speaker 4: need to have a social worker that reaches out to

1055
00:53:24,361 --> 00:53:27,281
Speaker 4: these people in the days after that to support them.

1056
00:53:27,881 --> 00:53:28,801
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's there.

1057
00:53:29,081 --> 00:53:31,161
Speaker 4: I don't know if I could go surprised to say

1058
00:53:31,161 --> 00:53:33,641
Speaker 4: it's their responsibility to check up on you, because there's

1059
00:53:33,681 --> 00:53:37,561
Speaker 4: so many people that go missing that then also are

1060
00:53:37,601 --> 00:53:40,281
Speaker 4: found safe and well that I guess they can't be

1061
00:53:40,361 --> 00:53:44,001
Speaker 4: doing that, but yeah, I definitely feel like that's a

1062
00:53:44,041 --> 00:53:44,841
Speaker 4: big let down.

1063
00:53:46,001 --> 00:53:48,321
Speaker 3: I know you did a media interview in September of

1064
00:53:48,321 --> 00:53:52,041
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two and Exhuming the Truth podcast in an

1065
00:53:52,081 --> 00:53:56,641
Speaker 3: episode on Aaron's disappearance in July this year. What has

1066
00:53:56,881 --> 00:54:00,481
Speaker 3: your experience been with speaking with the media.

1067
00:54:01,281 --> 00:54:03,361
Speaker 4: The media that we did, I think it was with

1068
00:54:03,441 --> 00:54:08,321
Speaker 4: the local news was organized by the police, like they

1069
00:54:08,321 --> 00:54:10,201
Speaker 4: wanted to do like a put it on the news,

1070
00:54:10,241 --> 00:54:12,281
Speaker 4: and like it was around the time that they did

1071
00:54:12,281 --> 00:54:15,161
Speaker 4: the search. So we went to the police station and

1072
00:54:15,281 --> 00:54:17,921
Speaker 4: they organized the media to come there, and the head

1073
00:54:17,961 --> 00:54:21,281
Speaker 4: guy of the police said who Aaron was and then

1074
00:54:21,481 --> 00:54:25,081
Speaker 4: allowed the media to ask us some tightly controlled, I

1075
00:54:25,161 --> 00:54:30,721
Speaker 4: believe questions. I remember at the time the media people

1076
00:54:30,801 --> 00:54:33,801
Speaker 4: did try and speak to us after the official part

1077
00:54:33,921 --> 00:54:36,241
Speaker 4: was over, but we were told not to speak to

1078
00:54:36,281 --> 00:54:38,281
Speaker 4: them and we were ushered away into a private room.

1079
00:54:38,361 --> 00:54:42,241
Speaker 4: I never really understood why, and I've since tried to

1080
00:54:42,281 --> 00:54:47,401
Speaker 4: reach out to different newspapers, TV stations, but unfortunately I

1081
00:54:47,601 --> 00:54:54,001
Speaker 4: at all falls on deafis. I've sent Facebook messages Instagram messages, emails. Yeah,

1082
00:54:54,041 --> 00:54:56,641
Speaker 4: I've never been able to get anyone take any interest

1083
00:54:56,681 --> 00:54:59,201
Speaker 4: in that. And then the other experience that I've had

1084
00:54:59,201 --> 00:55:01,761
Speaker 4: with using any kind of media, I listened to a

1085
00:55:01,761 --> 00:55:06,481
Speaker 4: lot of true crime podcasts. So I came across Asher

1086
00:55:06,681 --> 00:55:11,281
Speaker 4: from a newly created Exhuming the Truth podcast, and Asher

1087
00:55:11,441 --> 00:55:15,641
Speaker 4: actually posted something on Facebook and said that she was

1088
00:55:16,081 --> 00:55:19,521
Speaker 4: wanting to help people in the missing person space, and

1089
00:55:20,081 --> 00:55:22,241
Speaker 4: I reached out to her, and I think it took

1090
00:55:22,321 --> 00:55:25,961
Speaker 4: maybe a year or two between when I first communicated

1091
00:55:25,961 --> 00:55:29,161
Speaker 4: with her and when we did the podcast episode. We

1092
00:55:29,601 --> 00:55:32,321
Speaker 4: really just created a bit of a timeline, and it

1093
00:55:32,361 --> 00:55:37,641
Speaker 4: was just having someone else interested enough to talk to

1094
00:55:37,681 --> 00:55:42,161
Speaker 4: me and spend time with me about Aaron just gave

1095
00:55:42,361 --> 00:55:46,201
Speaker 4: me like a renewed sense of motivation. And during that time,

1096
00:55:46,241 --> 00:55:48,521
Speaker 4: it was also in the lead up to when we

1097
00:55:48,601 --> 00:55:50,521
Speaker 4: had the inquest, and there was a couple of other

1098
00:55:50,721 --> 00:55:53,161
Speaker 4: people that I came in contact with, And I think

1099
00:55:53,241 --> 00:55:57,241
Speaker 4: any kind of connections that you can make with anyone

1100
00:55:57,281 --> 00:56:01,081
Speaker 4: who's a little bit interested or shares an interest in

1101
00:56:01,201 --> 00:56:05,881
Speaker 4: true crime or missing people just kind of gives you

1102
00:56:05,921 --> 00:56:08,601
Speaker 4: the motivation that you need to keep on pushing for information.

1103
00:56:09,281 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 4: So I've had the two different experiences. One was very

1104
00:56:12,681 --> 00:56:15,201
Speaker 4: procedural when we did the media release for the news

1105
00:56:15,201 --> 00:56:18,761
Speaker 4: and then with Asher and now spending time talking to

1106
00:56:18,841 --> 00:56:22,321
Speaker 4: you and preparing for this podcast. It just makes you

1107
00:56:22,361 --> 00:56:25,921
Speaker 4: feel supported and it just gives me that push that

1108
00:56:25,961 --> 00:56:27,881
Speaker 4: I need to keep going and keep searching.

1109
00:56:28,841 --> 00:56:32,281
Speaker 3: Well, we're here to help you, So keep pushing, my friend,

1110
00:56:32,441 --> 00:56:34,681
Speaker 3: you will get there, and we're here to chat. As

1111
00:56:34,681 --> 00:56:37,281
Speaker 3: I said, any time you need a helping hand, we'll

1112
00:56:37,281 --> 00:56:39,401
Speaker 3: do updates as well. I think as part of the

1113
00:56:39,401 --> 00:56:43,441
Speaker 3: Missing Matter podcast, So what do You Reckon? Has been

1114
00:56:43,881 --> 00:56:46,361
Speaker 3: the hardest thing for you and your family emotionally in

1115
00:56:46,401 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 3: this process of not knowing. How are you coping still

1116
00:56:49,521 --> 00:56:53,841
Speaker 3: today with the ambiguity that the ongoing uncertainty brings.

1117
00:56:54,481 --> 00:56:56,761
Speaker 1: I think you cope because you have to, you know

1118
00:56:56,801 --> 00:56:57,761
Speaker 1: what's the alternative.

1119
00:56:58,361 --> 00:57:00,601
Speaker 4: But the hardest part for me and my family, I

1120
00:57:00,641 --> 00:57:03,681
Speaker 4: think just continuing to live every day in the space

1121
00:57:03,761 --> 00:57:06,761
Speaker 4: between hope and grief, like you don't know what's happened,

1122
00:57:07,401 --> 00:57:10,321
Speaker 4: but there's no clear place for your emotions to settle.

1123
00:57:10,401 --> 00:57:13,241
Speaker 4: You can't mourn, but you also can't fully move on,

1124
00:57:13,561 --> 00:57:18,881
Speaker 4: like you're just suspended in this constant uncertainty. That touches

1125
00:57:19,081 --> 00:57:22,441
Speaker 4: every part of your life. It weighs on you most.

1126
00:57:22,841 --> 00:57:25,721
Speaker 4: It's like it is just the absence of any answers.

1127
00:57:25,761 --> 00:57:29,281
Speaker 4: It's painful each day just to wake up and you

1128
00:57:29,401 --> 00:57:32,801
Speaker 4: still don't know what's happened, and you don't know if

1129
00:57:32,801 --> 00:57:36,761
Speaker 4: you're ever going to know what's happened. You know, milestones, holidays,

1130
00:57:37,161 --> 00:57:38,041
Speaker 4: ordinary days.

1131
00:57:38,521 --> 00:57:40,401
Speaker 1: You just carry that invisible ache.

1132
00:57:41,081 --> 00:57:44,681
Speaker 4: It's a kind of emotional fatigue that just accumulates over time.

1133
00:57:44,761 --> 00:57:47,881
Speaker 4: And I would just describe it, it's just it's heavy.

1134
00:57:48,681 --> 00:57:52,561
Speaker 4: As for coping, it's just something that exists every day.

1135
00:57:52,721 --> 00:57:55,441
Speaker 4: I try to focus on what I can do about

1136
00:57:55,521 --> 00:57:59,281
Speaker 4: keeping his story present, supporting the search in whatever ways

1137
00:57:59,281 --> 00:58:02,081
Speaker 4: that are available to us. And I think as a family,

1138
00:58:02,161 --> 00:58:04,041
Speaker 4: we just try and take care of each other and

1139
00:58:04,081 --> 00:58:07,161
Speaker 4: just look out for each other. But the uncertainty, it

1140
00:58:07,241 --> 00:58:10,561
Speaker 4: never becomes easy. But we just have to learn to

1141
00:58:10,641 --> 00:58:13,841
Speaker 4: live with it by holding space for both the hope

1142
00:58:13,841 --> 00:58:17,241
Speaker 4: and the reality. In a way, the balance is how

1143
00:58:17,281 --> 00:58:20,041
Speaker 4: I keep him present in my mind but still trying

1144
00:58:20,081 --> 00:58:22,921
Speaker 4: to function and just be present in my own life.

1145
00:58:23,961 --> 00:58:25,961
Speaker 3: Well, you're a busy mom too, right, You're working and

1146
00:58:26,001 --> 00:58:30,121
Speaker 3: you've got kids, and life goes on still, but we're

1147
00:58:30,161 --> 00:58:33,001
Speaker 3: holding the torch for these guys because they're important to

1148
00:58:33,081 --> 00:58:37,921
Speaker 3: us and it's important that we find the find the

1149
00:58:37,961 --> 00:58:42,201
Speaker 3: truth as to what's happened. Yes, yeah, and so something

1150
00:58:42,201 --> 00:58:44,841
Speaker 3: else to mention that, you know, Aaron has since become

1151
00:58:44,841 --> 00:58:49,961
Speaker 3: a grandfather. Yeah, his daughter Katie gave birth to her daughter, Luna.

1152
00:58:50,641 --> 00:58:52,641
Speaker 3: You know, it is devastating when our missing loved ones

1153
00:58:52,641 --> 00:58:56,561
Speaker 3: aren't there to celebrate the milestones in our lives of

1154
00:58:56,601 --> 00:58:59,001
Speaker 3: their families and their friends, Like that's a big milestone.

1155
00:58:59,161 --> 00:59:01,361
Speaker 3: And I'm sad that he's not here to be there,

1156
00:59:01,801 --> 00:59:04,881
Speaker 3: not just to because he's missing out on meeting his

1157
00:59:05,041 --> 00:59:07,841
Speaker 3: brand daughter Luna, but also to support Katie. And I

1158
00:59:07,881 --> 00:59:08,801
Speaker 3: know he'd want to do that.

1159
00:59:09,601 --> 00:59:10,041
Speaker 1: He would.

1160
00:59:11,521 --> 00:59:14,121
Speaker 3: What do you want people to know about Aaron?

1161
00:59:15,481 --> 00:59:16,241
Speaker 1: He was kind.

1162
00:59:16,601 --> 00:59:19,441
Speaker 4: He was kind, that's the overarching. He was kind, and

1163
00:59:19,481 --> 00:59:23,681
Speaker 4: he cared about people. He was compassionate, He had big

1164
00:59:23,681 --> 00:59:28,001
Speaker 4: emotions and like I've said before, big personality. I think

1165
00:59:28,001 --> 00:59:30,001
Speaker 4: at one point a Scout leader that he used to

1166
00:59:30,081 --> 00:59:32,241
Speaker 4: have when he was probably about nine years old, was

1167
00:59:32,241 --> 00:59:34,801
Speaker 4: in contact with someone and they remember him.

1168
00:59:34,881 --> 00:59:36,361
Speaker 1: Black people remember him.

1169
00:59:36,641 --> 00:59:39,441
Speaker 4: A friend of mum's that mum had when we were

1170
00:59:39,441 --> 00:59:43,081
Speaker 4: in primary school reached out to Mum via the police

1171
00:59:43,161 --> 00:59:46,241
Speaker 4: after seeing I think the media release just to say, hey,

1172
00:59:46,521 --> 00:59:50,401
Speaker 4: I remember you, I remember your son. So I just

1173
00:59:50,681 --> 00:59:54,321
Speaker 4: that's what I want people to remember. There's no misconceptions

1174
00:59:54,401 --> 00:59:56,641
Speaker 4: about who Aaron was in my mind, like I know

1175
00:59:56,761 --> 00:59:59,841
Speaker 4: that I own that, but he was still my brother

1176
00:59:59,881 --> 01:00:01,961
Speaker 4: and he was a human and he deserves the same

1177
01:00:02,001 --> 01:00:03,521
Speaker 4: as any other missing person.

1178
01:00:04,001 --> 01:00:07,081
Speaker 3: You've got a Facebook page set up for Aaron, to

1179
01:00:07,401 --> 01:00:09,681
Speaker 3: tell everyone what that is, so that can find you

1180
01:00:09,721 --> 01:00:10,201
Speaker 3: that way too.

1181
01:00:10,241 --> 01:00:13,401
Speaker 4: Well. Yeah, the Facebook page is just called where is

1182
01:00:13,481 --> 01:00:14,401
Speaker 4: ar unclear.

1183
01:00:15,281 --> 01:00:19,041
Speaker 3: To c l ear and you can reach out to

1184
01:00:19,081 --> 01:00:21,881
Speaker 3: me as well. People can email me at info at

1185
01:00:21,881 --> 01:00:24,881
Speaker 3: the Missingmatter dot com and I will obviously pass any

1186
01:00:25,001 --> 01:00:28,441
Speaker 3: comments or offers to help to Cassandra and her family

1187
01:00:28,521 --> 01:00:31,361
Speaker 3: as well. So know that that is there in an

1188
01:00:31,361 --> 01:00:33,521
Speaker 3: option if you would like to help, or if you

1189
01:00:33,561 --> 01:00:35,001
Speaker 3: think you can help, or if you just want to

1190
01:00:35,001 --> 01:00:37,201
Speaker 3: send her a nice message and the family a nice message.

1191
01:00:37,241 --> 01:00:41,761
Speaker 3: That's sometimes a nice thing to do too. What would

1192
01:00:41,961 --> 01:00:45,681
Speaker 3: resolution look like for your family, cass.

1193
01:00:46,801 --> 01:00:49,121
Speaker 4: As hard as it is for me to say this

1194
01:00:49,201 --> 01:00:52,401
Speaker 4: out loud, I do believe that Aaron is deceised, So

1195
01:00:52,521 --> 01:00:55,681
Speaker 4: for me, a resolution would be for someone to come

1196
01:00:55,761 --> 01:00:58,521
Speaker 4: forward with some information that would just allow us to

1197
01:00:58,561 --> 01:00:59,601
Speaker 4: find him and bring.

1198
01:00:59,561 --> 01:01:02,361
Speaker 1: Him home, and.

1199
01:01:01,601 --> 01:01:04,241
Speaker 4: We can do what we want to do, but bring

1200
01:01:04,321 --> 01:01:06,121
Speaker 4: him home to be with his family.

1201
01:01:07,041 --> 01:01:10,401
Speaker 3: As we're finishing up our conversation, what legacy do you

1202
01:01:10,601 --> 01:01:14,521
Speaker 3: hope this podcast or any other media can build for Aaron?

1203
01:01:14,641 --> 01:01:16,241
Speaker 3: For families of missing persons?

1204
01:01:16,241 --> 01:01:19,681
Speaker 4: To raise awareness for Aaron, I want this podcast to

1205
01:01:19,761 --> 01:01:22,921
Speaker 4: help build a legacy for him, to help ensure that

1206
01:01:23,001 --> 01:01:26,121
Speaker 4: his name is not forgotten. I want people to remember

1207
01:01:26,201 --> 01:01:29,921
Speaker 4: him as a whole person and someone who madded he

1208
01:01:30,041 --> 01:01:32,401
Speaker 4: was loved and he was missed, and someone who still

1209
01:01:32,441 --> 01:01:37,041
Speaker 4: deserves the answers I think For other families of missing people,

1210
01:01:37,241 --> 01:01:40,001
Speaker 4: I hope that this story reminds them that they're not alone,

1211
01:01:40,881 --> 01:01:43,641
Speaker 4: and it becomes a source of strength and a reminder

1212
01:01:43,681 --> 01:01:47,001
Speaker 4: that their voices can make a difference on a broader level.

1213
01:01:47,121 --> 01:01:50,121
Speaker 4: Sale I just hope that this podcast continues to raise

1214
01:01:50,161 --> 01:01:54,041
Speaker 4: awareness about how many families quietly live with this kind

1215
01:01:54,041 --> 01:01:57,001
Speaker 4: of pain, and that it inspires a bit more empathy,

1216
01:01:57,281 --> 01:02:00,961
Speaker 4: more action, and more attention to missing persons cases.

1217
01:02:02,001 --> 01:02:05,281
Speaker 3: And can you tell everyone why Aaron matters?

1218
01:02:07,001 --> 01:02:09,641
Speaker 4: Seeing as I've listened to all of the episodes, I

1219
01:02:09,761 --> 01:02:14,521
Speaker 4: kind of knew this was coming. It's hard. Aaron matters

1220
01:02:14,521 --> 01:02:19,161
Speaker 4: because every life matters. Aaron was funny and caring, and

1221
01:02:19,201 --> 01:02:22,281
Speaker 4: he always was the first person to help whenever someone

1222
01:02:22,361 --> 01:02:23,161
Speaker 4: might have needed it.

1223
01:02:23,801 --> 01:02:25,161
Speaker 1: He was not just my brother.

1224
01:02:25,801 --> 01:02:30,841
Speaker 4: He was a son, a dad, a grandfather, uncle, cousin,

1225
01:02:31,561 --> 01:02:34,921
Speaker 4: a friend. He was a huge part of our family.

1226
01:02:35,681 --> 01:02:38,041
Speaker 4: We all miss him deeply.

1227
01:02:37,801 --> 01:02:39,321
Speaker 1: And we just want to bring him home.

1228
01:02:40,601 --> 01:02:44,601
Speaker 4: Aaron was a person with hopes, with dreams, and aspirations

1229
01:02:44,641 --> 01:02:49,081
Speaker 4: of a life that deserved to be protected. His absence

1230
01:02:49,441 --> 01:02:52,401
Speaker 4: has left us heartbroken and we will never stop looking

1231
01:02:52,441 --> 01:02:57,561
Speaker 4: for him.

1232
01:02:57,761 --> 01:03:02,761
Speaker 2: Next week on the Missing Matter. For Jeannette, every day

1233
01:03:02,881 --> 01:03:06,161
Speaker 2: begins with the same question, where is my son?

1234
01:03:06,721 --> 01:03:09,121
Speaker 1: We just love him more than our own lives. You

1235
01:03:10,001 --> 01:03:13,001
Speaker 1: just wanted the best for them.

1236
01:03:13,041 --> 01:03:16,521
Speaker 2: Scott left home during a mental health crisis that has

1237
01:03:16,561 --> 01:03:21,561
Speaker 2: never been seen again. No confirmed sighting, no clear answers,

1238
01:03:21,641 --> 01:03:24,041
Speaker 2: just a mother holding on to hope.

1239
01:03:24,481 --> 01:03:27,601
Speaker 4: Aren't you concerned that Scott is driving around in his

1240
01:03:27,841 --> 01:03:29,561
Speaker 4: car in a psychotic state?

1241
01:03:30,121 --> 01:03:34,161
Speaker 1: Are you happy with him driving around in this stage?

1242
01:03:34,401 --> 01:03:36,521
Speaker 2: That's next time on the Missing Matter,