1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: This podcast was recorded on the land of the Gadigel 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: people of the Eur Nation. Hello and welcome to the 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 1: Real Story. I'm Joe Hildebrand and this week we have 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: got an absolute cracker of an episode for you. There 5 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: is so much happening in federal politics. We've got, of course, 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: the Fatima payment controversy that just keeps on rolling on. 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: We've got the leader of the Free World who can't 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 1: even finish a sentence and may not be compassmentus. And 9 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 1: a split between the Libs and the Nats in the 10 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: biggest state in Australia. All that more coming up. But 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: first up this week, how do you solve a problem 12 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: like Fatima? Yes, Fatima Payment. She's a West Australian Labor 13 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: senator who no one had really heard of until a 14 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, but then she crossed the floor 15 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: to vote with the Greens on emotion about recognizing Palestine. 16 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: Now we need to go back a long, long way 17 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,559 Speaker 1: to find out just how bad this is and why 18 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: it will probably destroy her career. But first let's just 19 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: get to what she actually did. So the Greens put 20 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: a motion in the Senate saying we recognize Palestine as 21 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: a state Labor tried to amend the motion and say, well, 22 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: hey on no, we recognize Palestine as a state as 23 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: part of a two state solution where we also recognize 24 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: the state of Israel. That is the party's position. That 25 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: has pretty much always been the party's position, and it 26 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: is very very important that the party maintains that position 27 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: because that is a position that for example, our strongest 28 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: and greatest ally, the US, that is their position. That 29 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: is the position of all the big nation states upon 30 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: whom Australia relies for its very existence and who Australia 31 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: deals with on the international stage. Okay, so it's very 32 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: important Labor Party and the government Lab buddy is the 33 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: government sticks to that position. But Fatima Payment just goes 34 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: off votes the Greens. She then gets suspended for one week. 35 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: She gets suspended from the ALP caucus for a week. 36 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: Right now, this is actually an incredibly light punishment. Crossing 37 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: the floor in the Labor Party is basically a capital offense. 38 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: You can be expelled from the entire party as a whole. Now, 39 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: you can't actually be sacked as being a senator because 40 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: only the people who elected you can sack you for 41 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: that unless you commit a crime. That's another story point, 42 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: being it's an extremely serious offense. But Albert goes nice 43 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: and easy on it, says, right, we're just going to 44 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: suspend you from the caucus for one week. She then 45 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: goes on Insiders on the ABC Sunday morning political program 46 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: and says, I do it again. So far from being contrived, 47 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: far from having learned her lesson, far from having said right, 48 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: I've done it. I've been punished for it, that's all. 49 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: Let's put it behind it, she actually says on television, 50 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,959 Speaker 1: I do it again. So Anthony albanize, he calls her 51 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: to the lodge, makes her drive all the way to 52 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 1: the Prime Minister's official residence in Canberra, and says, right, 53 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: that's it. You are now suspended from caucus indefinitely. And 54 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 1: you would think that that might be the end of 55 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: it as well. And remember this is still a lenient punishment. 56 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: He hasn't actually expelled her from the Labor Party. She 57 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: could come to her senses and say, right, I'm not 58 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: going to cross the floor anymore. I'm really really sorry. 59 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: I was young, I needed the money, whatever, whatever, whatever, 60 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: and that could have been the end of it. She 61 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: could have resumed taking part in caucus as a labor senator, 62 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: as she was incredibly privileged to be able to do 63 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: in the first place. But no, She then puts out 64 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: a statement. She issues a public statement saying, I've been exiled. 65 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: I feel like I've been intimidated. I've been left out 66 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: of all these group chats, and no one's circulating the 67 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: notes to me anymore, or the notice of meetings. It's like, yes, 68 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: because you've been suspended from the meetings, you don't get 69 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: to go to the meetings. That means you don't get 70 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: the minutes from the meetings. And indeed, you know, some 71 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: people would say not getting the minutes of the meeting 72 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: is probably not the worst crime in the world, you know. 73 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: Point being, she doesn't seem to get what is actually happening. 74 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: She doesn't seem to actually understand what is happening to her. 75 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: But not only does she complain about being suspended indefinitely, 76 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: and not only does it only apparently occur to her 77 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: that being suspended from the caucus means, yes, you are exiled. 78 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: You are isolated. That is the definition of being suspended 79 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: from the caucus. You're not in the group anymore because 80 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: you didn't vote with the group. You didn't agree to 81 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: do what the group wanted to do, what the group 82 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: asked you to do, and what you promised the group 83 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: you would do. So yes, you are suspended, not even 84 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: expelled permanently, but just suspended. She then also says in 85 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: this statement she's considering her options now if crossing the 86 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 1: floor is a cardinal seen in a Labor party, openly 87 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: suggesting that you are going to leave the par or 88 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: join another party, all the while holding public office as 89 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: a Labor member of Parliament is beyond a capital offense. 90 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: That is, like they string you up, they bury the body, 91 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: and then they dig you up again just so they 92 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: can string you up again. You just don't do that. 93 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: And we're going to get back to why it is 94 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: so important, very very soon. But point being fatom of 95 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: payment has not just you know, behind closed doors, been 96 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: scheming and talking to other parties behind the Labor Party's back. 97 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: But she's publicly in a statement saying, yeah, I'm not 98 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: sure if I'm gonna you know, and stay as a 99 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: member of the Labor I'm going to know just you know, 100 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: just check out my options, talk to a few people, 101 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: you know. But wait, there's more, because she's also been 102 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 1: scheming behind closed doors. It emerged a couple of days 103 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: later that she'd been speaking to one of the most 104 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 1: infamous political operators in modern Australian politics. Now this is 105 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: a guy who was responsible for getting a member from 106 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: the Motoring Enthusiast Party elected to the Australian Senate. Now 107 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: this is Glenn Drury. He's a guy who's called the 108 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: preference Whisperer and he has an incredibly base but also 109 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: sophisticated model of getting tiny what they call micro parties 110 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: elected to Parliament, elected to the Senate. Now, you can 111 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: only get elected these tiny little parties, can only get 112 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: elected to upper house bodies where there's lots and lots 113 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: and lots of preference flows and where it's all proportional 114 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: representation rather than anyone having to win a majority of 115 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: a vote in a seat. Because these are parties that 116 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: just get tiny, tiny, tiny percentages. But he is able 117 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: to get them elected by using a strategy where all 118 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: their preferences flow to each other. And as long as 119 00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: you can keep that loop closed, then at least one 120 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: of those micro parties will get elected. We don't know 121 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: who it's going to be. You don't know if you 122 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: will be the lucky one. But if everyone just sticks 123 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: to the script, then at least someone will get elected. 124 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: And about a decade or so ago, that someone was 125 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: Ricky Mueller, a guy who just had no idea what 126 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: he was doing in the Senate. There were some excruciating moments. 127 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: It was unfair on him because he shouldn't really have 128 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: been there. But this bloke, on a tiny, tiny handful 129 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: of votes gets elected to the highest most senior house 130 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: of Parliament in the entire country. Now, firstly, as we've 131 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: established in recent weeks, Fatima Payment is not someone particularly 132 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: good at political discipline. So whether or not she sticks 133 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: to Glen Drury's script or not, I don't know. She 134 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: hasn't even signed up to Glen Drew, but they've just 135 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: been talking, right, So I've had people tell me this privately, 136 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: people who know, and it's also been published in a 137 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: couple of the newspapers this week. So who is Fatima 138 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: Payment actually interested in talking to or running with? Which 139 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: party would it be? Well, it's a party that doesn't 140 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: really kind of even sort of exist yet, but it 141 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: will at the next election. And this is a Muslim party. 142 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: They're colloquially known as Muslim teals grassroots movement, they say, 143 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,239 Speaker 1: it's not grassroots. We'll get to that in a minute, 144 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: but that is going to target labor seats at the 145 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: next federal election on the issue of Palestine. So, just 146 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: to recap, we have a labor senator who, it's now 147 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: been revealed, has not just crossed the floor to vote 148 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: with the Greens, has said she would do it again, 149 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: has then complained about being locked out of the caucus, 150 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: even as a minor tokenistic what a lot of people 151 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: say is a wet let us leave punishment from the leader. 152 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,479 Speaker 1: So she hasn't even been expelled, but she's still complaining 153 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: about her punishment and is then flirting with another party 154 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: which is devoted to trying to boot labor MPs out 155 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: of office. Now, you do not get to a higher 156 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: level of treachery than this in politics. Now, the real 157 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: crime in this, I suppose, is that firstly, not only 158 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: is this group of grassroots Muslims as they would call themselves, 159 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: targeting labor MPs, It's targeting the labor MPs who are 160 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: most sympathetic to their cause. It's targeting labor MPs with 161 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: high Muslim populations in their electorates. Largely in Southwest Sydney, 162 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: where twenty five to thirty three percent of any given 163 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: electorate might be Muslim voters. It's targeting the MPs who 164 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: have been most outspoken, most sympathetic to the plight of 165 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: Palestinians in Gaza, the ones who have spoken out about it. 166 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: Whether it's because they just see the trauma when they're 167 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: talking to people in their electorates, I know for a 168 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: fact that at least several of them are really decent 169 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: people who really really care about this. But even if 170 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: some of the others are just you know, cold hard 171 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: political animals who don't care but just want to get reelected, Nonetheless, 172 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: they are out there putting pressure on the government, being 173 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: yelled at and criticized by members of the Jewish community 174 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: and conservatives, but they are putting their necks on the 175 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: line to represent the Palestinian cause. And these are the 176 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: MPs that the so called Muslim teals are targeting. So 177 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: they're targeting the MPs who are most on their sides, 178 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: and this makes them very much like the actual teals, 179 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: Because who did the teals go after when they started 180 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: knocking off liberal seats. Was it the right wing liberal MPs? 181 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: Ohnw It was the Wets, the moderates, the left wing 182 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: liberal MPs who were already all in on climate change, 183 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: and the most high profile was of course Josh S Fredenberg, 184 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: who as Energy Minister literally wrote Malcolm Turnbull's climate policy 185 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: for which he was knife as Prime Minister by Peter 186 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: Dutton and Scott Morrison. So they actually go after the 187 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 1: people who are closest to them, just like the Greens 188 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: when they go after labor seats, do they go after 189 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: seats held by the noble warriors of the alp right. No, 190 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: they go after seats held by left wing MPs. They 191 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,839 Speaker 1: go after seats which are held by MPs who were 192 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: closest to them politically. So it's not as though it's 193 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: really about a sort of higher, nobler truer, cause it's 194 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: about pure political opportunism. It's about just getting the seats 195 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: you can, not because those people who you're targeting have 196 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: done anything particularly bad. In fact, they're the ones who 197 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: are doing the things that you say need to be done, 198 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: but you're going after them and you're stealing their seats 199 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: just because you can. It's what the Greens do, it's 200 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 1: what the Teals do, and it's what this new Muslim 201 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: aligned political party is trying to do. But there's an 202 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: even greater level of just shameless political Machiavelian opportunism to this, 203 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: which is that if they're working with the preference whisperer, 204 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: if they're working with Glenn Drury, this means that they're 205 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: not actually relying on a groundswell of public outrage about 206 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: what's happening in Gaza, because the way that the Drury 207 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: system works, it's not about outrage from the grassroots. It's 208 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: not about people power. It's just about preferences. It is 209 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: just about preference flows. Because the strategy, as I said, 210 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: is you get all these tiny micro parties in a 211 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: room and you say, right, no matter what happens, you 212 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: preference each other that you don't let a single vote 213 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: leak from that closed circle. And as one party gets 214 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: knocked out from the bottom one at a time, eventually 215 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: those preferences come back into play and they go to 216 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: the next smaller group. So you go from one hundred 217 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: micro parties if you like, and then it's ninety nine, 218 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: ninety eight, ninety seven, you get to one, you get 219 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: to the last person standing, the Stephen Bradbury. And because 220 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: all those other microparties been knocked out, he then could 221 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: potentially get a seat in the Senate, in the upper house. 222 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: So that is the strategy behind the dreary program, if 223 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: you like. It's nothing to do with virtuousness. It's nothing 224 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: to do with the cause. It's just to do with 225 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: pure electoral mathematics, cold hard numbers. Nothing but and this 226 00:13:55,400 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: is this great point of principle that Fatima Payman is 227 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: apparently willing to die on a hill for. But before 228 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: we moved on, I just wanted to get to a question. 229 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: A lot of people are asking about this whole massive snaffoo. 230 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: Why is it such a sin to cross the floor 231 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: in the first place? Why does Labor have a binding caucus? 232 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: Is it really the end of the world if someone 233 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: votes the other way? And after all, the Liberal Party 234 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: does it, and indeed the Republicans and the Democrats do 235 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: it in the US as well, Why is it so important? Well, 236 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: this goes back about a century and a half. This 237 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: goes back to the very foundations of the Labor Party itself. 238 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: And unlike any of these other political parties, the Labor 239 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: Party was formed as a result of organized labor a 240 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: clues in the name as a result of the union movement. 241 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: And again think about the word union and what that means. 242 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: It means that you act as one. It means that 243 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: if you have a boss and a worker trying to negotiate, 244 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: or boss dictating terms, dictating wages and conditions, that worker 245 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: can't actually stand up for themselves. That worker doesn't have 246 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: a leak to stand on. In some industrial settings, quite 247 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: literally might not have a leak to stand on because 248 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: the oh and wasn't too great in the nineth century. 249 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: But if all the workers actually get together and say, right, 250 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: none of us will work in your factory, none of 251 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: us will work in your mill, none of us will 252 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: work in your coal mine, unless you improve conditions for 253 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: all of us, then suddenly those workers have bargaining power. 254 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: Now that's pretty straightforward, but it's something that often gets 255 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: forgotten because the Labor Party, as it's officially known to 256 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: this day. I believe the Federal Parliamentary Labor Party is 257 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: so designated as the Federal Parliamentary Labor Party because it 258 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: is simply the political wing of the union movement. It 259 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: is the political wing of that organized lay. But so 260 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: the very reason the Labor Party came into existence was 261 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: to represent the principle of workers uniting and never being defeated, 262 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: but workers uniting so that they can actually have a 263 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: degree of bargaining power with their employer. And just as 264 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: the workers had to be completely united in order to 265 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: have any bargaining power with their employer, because of course, 266 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: as soon as some workers break away as it actually 267 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: will work for less, or we don't care about these conditions, 268 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: or if you just pay us a bit more, will 269 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: break the strike or break the picket line or the 270 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: walk off or whatever it may be, then the whole 271 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: jig's up. Suddenly, the whole thing's for nothing. The Labor 272 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: Party is established on the same principle, and it's actually 273 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: very very similar because it means that if the caucus 274 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: acts as one. Firstly, when people vote for a labor candidate, 275 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: they know what they're getting, They know what it says 276 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: on the tin, they know that the person isn't going 277 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: just fly off the handle and vote however they feel. 278 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: They're going to vote for the labor policies and the 279 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: labor platform that is put to the voters at the 280 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: federal election. It's called the Australian Labor Party, not the 281 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: Australian I'll do whatever I want party, So it says right, 282 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: and you actually, when you become a candidate, you actually 283 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: sign an agreement that that is what you are going 284 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: to do. And again you can get expelled if you 285 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: do not do it. You can get expelled if you 286 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: cross the floor because you were elected to the Parliament, 287 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: not on the basis of your surname. No one saying, 288 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: ah Fatima Payments running for the Senate, Oh, I'm going 289 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: to vote for her now, No, they said, right, Labor, 290 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: And indeed they would have put a one. About ninety 291 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: percent of voters would have put a one in the 292 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: Australian Labor Party box on the top of the line, 293 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: and those are the votes that would have gone to Fatima. 294 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: So even if you know, even if she was running 295 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: the Lower House, it would still be her name of 296 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: the party next to it, and that would still be 297 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: a vote for the Labor Party in almost all circumstances. 298 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: Some people say, well, you know, the actual individual themselves, 299 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: that might be worth a few percent, but the vast 300 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: majority of it is going to be a vote for 301 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: the party because the party represents the sort of government 302 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: that you would like to see that's even in the 303 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: lower House when someone's actually voting for your name. In 304 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: the upper house, in the Senate, they're not even voting 305 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: for your name ninety percent of the time, they're just 306 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 1: voting for the Australian Labor Party. And then the party 307 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: basically gives you the requisite handful of the votes that 308 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: it's received, and if they are enough, it gets you 309 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 1: over the line. That's how fatom payment gets lead. So 310 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: the principle of a binding caucus is that it arises 311 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 1: from the principle of a binding workforce, a unified workforce 312 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: and a unified caucus. Why is this important in twenty 313 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: first century Australia. Well, people will say, as I mentioned, 314 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: the Democrats, which are kind of like the US Labor 315 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,479 Speaker 1: Party a bit, they don't have a binding caucus. But 316 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: what happens in America. Every lobbyist under the sun can 317 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: waltz around Washington and all it has to do to 318 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: get a vote that they want is just peel off 319 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: one congressman one congresswoman at a time. So it means 320 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,239 Speaker 1: that you can peel off votes. Interest groups, you know, 321 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: the National Rifle Association, for example, can peel off individual 322 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: MPs and know that all it has to do is say, 323 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: get the Republicans on board and get a few Dems 324 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: and suddenly you got your legislation through. That can't happen 325 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 1: in Australia, at least not officially. That can't happen because 326 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: you cannot get an MP in the Labor Party at 327 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: least to vote the way you want if it's not 328 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: the way that all of caucus has decided. So you'd 329 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: have to pay off all of Caucus basically get all 330 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: of them on board, and that would be expensive and 331 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: it probably wouldn't happen. So that's why it's still important 332 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: to this day. Not only is it something that expresses 333 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: the very basis on which the Labor Party was founded 334 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,959 Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds, but it's also a really important 335 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: bulwark against corruption or interference to this very day. And 336 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: that again is something that people who are in the 337 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: Labor Party understand instinctively, That is something they know in 338 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: their bones. And yet this young person in their twenties 339 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: from Wa who gets this unbelievable privilege, and yet it 340 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: turns out that she does not even have the most 341 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: basic appreciation, even after it's been explained to her again 342 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: and again even after the party is trying to show 343 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: her with the most leaning of consequences for the most 344 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 1: heinous of actions, she still just doesn't get it. Speaking 345 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: of US politics, what the actual is happening in US politics? 346 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: Donald Trump and Joe Biden came out late last week 347 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: in a debate that if anyone watched it, they are 348 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: still receiving treatment for PTSD. It was just awful as 349 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: a human being, it was awful to watch. And this 350 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: is not just because it was Donald Trump doing this 351 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,719 Speaker 1: sort of usual razzle dazzle and just making stuff up, 352 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: although there was plenty of that as well, and God 353 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: love him for it. It was because it appeared to 354 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: be Donald Trump debating a corpse. Joe Biden just was 355 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: not there. Like, I don't know what happened. I don't 356 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: know if they didn't get the dosage right or they 357 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: didn't time the shot right that nothing happened. Maybe they're 358 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 1: just a little bit like because he seemed to sort 359 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: of perk up a bit, you know, about halfway through, 360 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: and he just started mumbling just a little bit louder. 361 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: But this was just just terrible, just terrible. There's no 362 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: way of coming back. So why is Joe Biden even 363 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: still the candidate. A lot of people would say, why 364 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: is he even still the president? Well, again, this comes 365 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: down to something that happens in the US and happens 366 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: in the Democratic Party that doesn't really happen so much 367 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: in Australia, and we should be very very grateful for that, 368 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: because at this point, the only shot the Democrats have 369 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: got at winning the next presidential election is if the 370 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: CIA does what it does best, just it's got to 371 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: take the guy out, you know, give someone else going. 372 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: But anyway, we don't have to resort to that in 373 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 1: Australia because we have for both political parties usually the 374 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:27,719 Speaker 1: parliamentary party leadership and the actual party party leadership are 375 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: two separate things. So in the Labor Party, for example, 376 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: you have the Prime Minister, but you've also got national 377 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 1: secretary or state secretaries of the Labor Party and a 378 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: national executive and a State executive of the Labor Party 379 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 1: who can sort of overrule if you like, or exert 380 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: some influence or just there's no other nice way but 381 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: just tap people on the shoulder, tell them to hit 382 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: the map. This is what happened infamously and unfortunately just 383 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: a few years ago with Maurice Yemma being forced to 384 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: basically throw in his premier ship because of the plans 385 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 1: to privatize the state's electricity network. Didn't that turn out 386 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: to be a great move, because it all happened anyway, 387 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: and we instead just went through a whole bunch of 388 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: premiers who ended up with Christina Knely getting absolutely pantsed 389 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: at the twenty eleven election. But I digress. It was 390 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: very traumatic. I was there again. I'm still seeking therapy. 391 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: Point being you don't actually have that check and balance 392 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: in the US as much the Democratic Party, and this 393 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: is what senior figure in the Labor Party here was 394 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,959 Speaker 1: explained to me. The Democratic Party, the power basically just 395 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: travels with the president. So just as you know the president, 396 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: there is both the head of government and the head 397 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: of state. Again different to Australia. The head of government 398 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,719 Speaker 1: is Anthony Alberanezi. The head of state is the Governor 399 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: General who just got a two hundred thousand dollars pay rise, 400 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: as you will recall. But let's not get too worked 401 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 1: up about that either. But in America it's all wrapped 402 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: up in the same person. The head of state is 403 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 1: also the head of government and of course, when it's 404 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: a democratic president, the power of the party, the power 405 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: of the party structure, while it does have sort of 406 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: other officials, tends to just gravitate to the White House. 407 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: So when you have a democratic president, that president is 408 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: not only the head of government in America, the head 409 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: of state of the United States of America, but he's 410 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: also the head of sort of the DNC's basically the 411 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: head of the Democratic Party as well. And so the 412 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: only way you can get rid of Joe Biden is 413 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: if Joe Biden wants to go, he basically again needs 414 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: to be tapped, but it needs to be someone who 415 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: has enough authority to tell the President of the United States, 416 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,919 Speaker 1: the leader of the free world, most powerful man on 417 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: the planet, that he's got to actually just tap the mat. 418 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: And that's a pretty hard thing to do to someone 419 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: who's got their hands on the nuclear codes. You know, 420 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: they've got a pretty big army behind him, and they're 421 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: also the commander in chief of that army. So a 422 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: lot of people are saying, well, maybe if Barack Obama 423 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: had a work maybe if the Clintons had a word, 424 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: Bill and Hillary together, But again it's very difficult because 425 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: the first lady, it has been suggested, might be holding 426 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: on to Joe doctor Jill Biden for a doctor she is, 427 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: and might be wanting to keep Joe in the White 428 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 1: House so that she can then position herself to take 429 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,479 Speaker 1: over as the President of the United States in America. 430 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm actually saying that out loud, but 431 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: that is something that's seriously being suggested. And indeed, Jill, 432 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: it would seem, is already Joe Biden's most senior advisor. 433 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: You might remember this little infamous moment after the debate 434 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: from hell, Joe, you did such a great job. You 435 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: answered every question. You know. And whenever Joe Biden goes overseas, 436 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: it's always Jill Biden who does all the talking to 437 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: the dignitaries, while Joe just kind of shuffles around behind 438 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: her and looks vaguely off into the distance somewhere. And 439 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: this is very salient, of course, because Joe Biden's latest 440 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: excuse for his appalling performance in the debate was that 441 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 1: he was suffering from jet lag. Suffering from jet lag 442 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: almost two weeks after his last overseas trip. Now, if 443 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: the president is going to be that dysfunctional for up 444 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: to two weeks after every overseas trip that they take. 445 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that that covers their entire time in office. 446 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 1: I mean, as far as I'm aware, the US President 447 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: gets around quite a bit. As far as I'm aware, 448 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: he has his own plane with a double bed on it, 449 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: But he still takes thirteen days, which is roughly the 450 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: length of the Cuban missile crisis. Still takes thirteen days 451 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: to recover from jet lag. So I can't say a 452 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 1: sentence for thirteen days after getting off a plane. I'm 453 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: not sure if that is actually the most reassuring endorsement 454 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: of Joe Biden at the moment. And now I want 455 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: to bring you to a story that is all about 456 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: New South Wales politics, but it is something that applies 457 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: to politics universally, not just right around the country, but 458 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: right around the world. And it just so happens to 459 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 1: be taking place right here in New South Wales and 460 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: the oldest state of Australia, arguably the place where politics 461 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: is the most fun. This is where they call the 462 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: lower house of the Parliament the bear Pit, and trust me, 463 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: I work there for many, many years. It lives up 464 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: to its name. Is incredible. People just run around, you know, 465 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: calling each other under parliamentary privilege. It's a terrific place anyway. 466 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: What has happened in New South Wales politics over the 467 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: last week is something almost even more bizarre than anything 468 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: that's ever happened, even by New South Wales own standards. 469 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: You've got the Libs and the Nats who are both 470 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: in opposition in New South Wales because the world's most 471 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: handsome politician, Chris Mins is the premier and doing fantastic job. 472 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: Good on you, Chris. God is beautiful, just dreamy, the 473 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: cheekbones chiseled, it's very fit to he's quit drinking, he's 474 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: working out. Anyway, the New South Wales Libs and Nats 475 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 1: are in a little bit of disarray. No one firstly 476 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: quite knows who they are, or what they're doing, or 477 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 1: who's in charge. And this week it turns out that 478 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: quite literally even they don't know who's in charge because 479 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: the Opposition leader Mark Speakman and the Nationals leader Doggled 480 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: Saunders are currently involved in a face off over who 481 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: actually gets to decide how the cabinet, the governing body 482 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: of the opposition, not that it's doing much governing at 483 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: the moment, but most senior body of the opposition, the 484 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: front bench, the shadow cabinet, who's actually in charge of it, 485 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: who actually gets to decide who's in and who's out. 486 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: We'll get to that little stand up in one second, 487 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: but this is how it all played out. Mark Speakman 488 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: made a visit to the Riverina town of Wogga Wogga. 489 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: Now everyone in Australia, I'm sure would be familiar with 490 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: Wogga Wogger. It's the town behind the song don't call 491 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: Wogga Wogga Wogga. It's also the home of the five 492 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: o'clock wave. And if anyone has ever known anyone from Wagga, 493 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: they will have heard about the five o'clock wave. If 494 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: anyone hasn't, I'll just wait for you to ask someone 495 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: from Wogger about the five o'clock wave. They will tell you. 496 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,239 Speaker 1: Mark Speakman visited Wogga and he toured the electorate, went 497 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: to all the nice little you know things that you 498 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: do in hospital, school, whatever, whatever, whatever. And a person 499 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: who lived in Wogga, the local feudal overlord, I think 500 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: is probably the best term, is a nationals MP called 501 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: Where's Fang? And Where's Fang got very very very upset 502 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: and posted a very very angry post on social media 503 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: about Mark Speakman coming to his town, not even telling 504 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: him his coming, not even taking him to little trips 505 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: to the hospital or whatever it was, you know, opening 506 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: the school fate yad YadA, YadA, YadA da. And he 507 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: was extremely angry about that. Now, it's pretty weird for 508 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: someone who was supposedly on the same side of the 509 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: leader of the Liberal Party, even though they're technically in 510 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: a different party, but still it's the coalition. Clues in 511 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,959 Speaker 1: the name, they work together, harmony, holding hands, singing kumba ya. Anyway, 512 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: where he's got very very angry posted the post. Then 513 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: of course he deleted the post because that's what happens 514 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: with posts like that. But the problem is that Where's 515 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: Fang isn't actually the member for Boggabogger. Where's Fang is 516 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: an Upper House MP, an up house member of the 517 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: Legislative Council MLC. He doesn't have an electorate. That's the 518 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: whole beauty of being in the upper House. You don't 519 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: have to worry about, you know, the riff raff. You know, 520 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: you just got to kick back on the red leather. Now, 521 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: I'm sure Where's Fang? Very much loves the people of Bogorga, 522 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: and he certainly lives in Wogga Wogga. He was born 523 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: in Wogogoga, went to school in Bogga Wogga, did his 524 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: training for the military in Woggagogga, and he currently lives 525 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: in Boggohoga, which also became a bone of contention because 526 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: Mark Speakman, even after this supposed face off was meant 527 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: to be resolved, said that he only believed that Wes 528 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: Fang claimed to live in Wogga Woga. I imagine you'd 529 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: be able to check that out pretty quickly. We still 530 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: have the white pages, don't we like. I imagine that would 531 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: be something you'd sort of He's doesn't really living Wogga Wogga. 532 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: He's just saying it. He's just saying that he lives 533 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: at Wvogohoga to get the chicks. So Mark Speakman had 534 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,239 Speaker 1: actually asked the local MP, or told the local MP 535 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: was coming to bogawog and hung out with the local MP. 536 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: But that local MP was not a member of the coalition. 537 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: He's an independent called Joe McGirr, and so Mark Speaman 538 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: was hanging out with him. Where's didn't like that. Obviously, 539 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: where's God's very angry post, the angry post mark speakman. 540 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: Then yes, very angry says right, that's it. You're out 541 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: of shadow cabinet. You are no longer and I'm going 542 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: to try to get this right. The shadow Assistant Minister 543 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: for Police and some other various tiny little portfolio. So again, 544 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: this is not something that is going to tear at 545 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: the fabric of Australian governance. The Shadow Assistant Minister of 546 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: Police isn't I believe you know that leadership betond that 547 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: every young boy has in their knapsack. But it's the 548 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: principle of the counts. And so so he said to 549 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: the leader of the NATS, right, your boys out of line. 550 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: I'm sacking him from the shadow cabinet, from the front bench. 551 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: Put up someone else, and the leader of the NATS 552 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: they said, well, hang on a minute. You don't get 553 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: to do that. You don't get to decide that. You 554 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: just tell us how many spots we've got on the 555 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: front bench, and then we feel them. We get to 556 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: decide this is my party, not yours. And then it 557 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: went back and forth, and you know, people put out statements. 558 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: It was like a kind of pantomime. So Mark Speven 559 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: put out a statement saying, you know, I, you know, 560 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: I've now removed where's Fang from shadow cabinet, and then 561 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: Dougals as the leader, put out a stap and go, 562 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: oh no you haven't no, no no, there's emergency party room 563 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: meeting on Tuesday, and apparently this was resolved the Great 564 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: Dominic Perrote intervened. And this is important because the reason 565 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: why the Nats and Mark Speakman at war is because 566 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: Mark Speakman comes from the NAT's least favorite liberal faction, 567 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: which is of course the moderates also happens to be 568 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: the liberals biggest faction, so they get to decide who 569 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: the leader is, and Dominic Perrote is from the party's 570 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: conservative faction, which is actually the smallest faction, but Dominic 571 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: Parrote still got to be leader because the conservative faction 572 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: on the sort of far right of the party and 573 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: the moderates on the far left of the party have 574 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: formed an alliance to lock out the center right, who 575 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: are in you guessed it, the center of the party, 576 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: and so everyone in the party basically hates the people 577 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: who are closest to them, so the moderates hate the 578 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: center right even though they're next to them on the 579 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: political spectrum. And the conservatives hate the center right even 580 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: though they're right next to them on the other side 581 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: of the political spectrum. And so the hard left and 582 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: the hard right have decided that they'd rather hang out 583 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: with each other than the people that have most in 584 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: common with This is a universal law of politics. You 585 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: always hate the people closest to you. And you can 586 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: tell anyone who says, oh, I'm a Labor member. I 587 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 1: the Libs, you know, blah blah blah. They don't understand 588 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: the lab bud. They If you're a true labor member, 589 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: you hate your opposing faction far more than you hate 590 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: the other party. Just trust me, I know. It's always 591 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: the people who are close to it. It's like, you know, 592 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: it's like when you're married to someone right. You don't 593 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: walk down the street, you know, having random fights with 594 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: neo Nazis or socialists or people that you are no 595 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: who do you have fights with. You have fights with 596 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: the person who's sleeping next to you in bed every night, 597 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: because they're the ones you've got to deal with. So 598 00:34:58,680 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: they're the ones who are going to annoy you the 599 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: moment anyway, Dominic Parrote, who has made premier despite coming 600 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: from the smallest faction with all the moderate support, to 601 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 1: make sure that no one from the center right could 602 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: become premier. And so Dominic Parrote was basically made premier 603 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: by Matt Kean. And we all know how the Nats 604 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,839 Speaker 1: feel about Matt Kean. If you don't just ask them 605 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 1: and set aside an afternoon, they don't like it. Point 606 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: b Dominic Parrote comes in, He resolves the issue. He 607 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: basically gets the two sides to sort of put out 608 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 1: a statement, the kind of I mean, I don't even 609 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: know whether Wes Fang is even in the shadow cabinet 610 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: or not at this point, but they managed to put 611 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: out a statement that sort of just muddies everything and says, yeah, 612 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 1: we get along. There's not going to be because people 613 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 1: are saying this could split the coalition for the first 614 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,720 Speaker 1: time in New South Wales history. You know, it's happened 615 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: in other dates, other jurisdictions, but for the first time, 616 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: the Libs and the Nats might actually split up. And 617 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: so everyone's say no, no, no, no, walking back from the ledge, 618 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: walking back from the ledge. Dominic Perote comes in the 619 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,240 Speaker 1: Great Peace maker, everyone agrees on a form of words. 620 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: Everyone puts out their statement after the meeting, basically claiming 621 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,800 Speaker 1: victory but also saying that you know, everything's fine, and yeah, yeah, yeah, 622 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,720 Speaker 1: it's all carefully orchestrated because no one Everyone just doesn't 623 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: want to talk about it anymore and they need to 624 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: move on because it's really embarrassing and everyone's looking a 625 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,280 Speaker 1: bit stupid. And then Mark Speakman said, well, it claims 626 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 1: to live in Wogga Wogga, And now we have finally 627 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: got to or more to the point, I finally remembered 628 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: to do what I was always going to do but 629 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 1: then forgot to got to the most important part of 630 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: this podcast, which is answering your questions. And if you've 631 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: got any questions for me at or just hit me 632 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: an email the real story at novapodcast dot com dot 633 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: au where you can just go to my Instagram account 634 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: because I'm handsome enough to deserve one, and this is 635 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 1: where I reckon. The hardest soul of this podcast is 636 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: going to be. You can ask any question you want, 637 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,919 Speaker 1: I'll answer it as honestly and fulsomenly as I possibly can. 638 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: First questions come through is how much of campaign messaging 639 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: is about just being different from the other guy. Like 640 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: if Dutton's planned for new isn't ever going to come off, 641 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: is it just about having something different to push for 642 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,439 Speaker 1: since the government are going so hard on renewables, give 643 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 1: that person a seed in Parliament. Yes. Absolutely, it is 644 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: a former campaign strategist campaign direct for someone who actually 645 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: wrote campaign ads for the Liberal Party. I won't say 646 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: who it was, but said, look, if I really want 647 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: to win an election, the most sure fire way is 648 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: like when you've got two cans of soup. You don't 649 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,360 Speaker 1: say my soup is the best soup. It tastes delicious, 650 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 1: it's the best soup you've ever tasted. If I really 651 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: want to make sure that people buy my can of 652 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: soup and not the other guys can of soup, I 653 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,399 Speaker 1: don't say how good my can of soup is. I say, 654 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: don't buy that soup. It's got rat poison in it. 655 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,720 Speaker 1: And this is why campaign adds always super super negative, 656 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: and why for example, you know the Labor Party is 657 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: going after Peter Dutton and saying that you know he's 658 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 1: nuclear campaign is going to turn us all into three 659 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: eyed cooalas. So, yes, it is very much about being 660 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:07,959 Speaker 1: different from the other guy. It is having a point 661 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,759 Speaker 1: of difference, but at the same time you've got to 662 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 1: balance that with being seen as a safe pair of hands. 663 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: So you don't want to be so different that people think, oh, 664 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: hang on a minute, I don't quite recognize you, or 665 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: that doesn't look like the issues I care about, or 666 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: that doesn't you don't look like someone who sort of 667 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: shares my values or who understands, you know, what I'm 668 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: going through. You want to be familiar enough that people 669 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,360 Speaker 1: think that you're a safe bare of hands, but different 670 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: enough so there's a point of difference. But most importantly, 671 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: what you want to be able to do is just 672 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: to be able to whack the other guy people and 673 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: no politicians know. No one really likes politicians that much, 674 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: no one trusts them that much. So you're never going 675 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: to win saying hey, look at me, I'm wonderful. Vote 676 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: for me, I'm awesome. You're always going to get more 677 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: traction by saying, hey, at least I'm not as bad 678 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: as that guy. And the preferential voting system we having 679 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 1: a st is also built to reward that as well, 680 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: because it's not like the sort of first past the 681 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,399 Speaker 1: post system they have in the UK or the US 682 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: where it's all about just getting out the vote. So 683 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: voting voluntary, often only fifty percent of people or so 684 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: will show up. So that means you get really hot 685 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 1: button issues like abortion or gun control, and you have 686 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 1: them as the focus of US presidential elections, where for 687 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: people who care about those issues, they care about them 688 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: really really really really really really really intensely, and so 689 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: it helps get the vote out. But for most people 690 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: who just want to go, you know, they're not thinking 691 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: about you know, how many elk they're going to shoot. 692 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: They just want to go and pay their bills, decent hours, 693 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 1: decent pay at work or whatever. But that's not what 694 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 1: gets out the vote. So we don't have that, So 695 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 1: we're focused on more normal things and we're focused on 696 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 1: getting out reluctant or even ambivalent or even undecided voters. 697 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: They have to vote anyway, So the best way you 698 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,359 Speaker 1: can win that say, this person is terrible, they're awful. 699 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,359 Speaker 1: You might not like me much, you might not even 700 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: like coming out to vote much, but at least I'm 701 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: not them because they're terrible and they're different. So I 702 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: hope that makes sense, even if it doesn't exactly reinforce 703 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: your faith in democracy. But trust me. As Winston Churchill said, 704 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: democracy is the worst system of government in the world 705 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 1: except for all the others. Question on TikTok serious question, 706 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 1: are there any other kind? What will we use for 707 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: base load power that reaches our emissions goals? Very very 708 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: good question. There's lots of comments from people also about 709 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 1: wind farms, which is of course a topic in and 710 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,759 Speaker 1: of itself. A lot of people do not like the 711 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: way they look. I don't really like the way they 712 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 1: look either, But anyway, it's a very good question. It 713 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: comes down to the nuclear debate as well. It also 714 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: comes down to things like battery storage. So if you 715 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: can store enough power that is generated when the sun 716 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: is shining and when the wind is blowing, so solar 717 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 1: panels and wind termbines. The problem at the moment is storage. 718 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: So we know how to sort of capture it, but 719 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 1: we also know that sometimes the wind doesn't blow, the 720 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: sun doesn't shine, sometimes it's not I know, spoiler alert, 721 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: and so we have to have a way to store 722 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 1: that technology. And at the moment we don't have sufficient 723 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: battery storage to provide based load power, which is why 724 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: we're still relying on caulfied power stations and why that's 725 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 1: still being extended. So battery storage has to get bigger. 726 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,319 Speaker 1: There's some suggestions you could do things like taking all 727 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 1: that energy and then hydrogen could be the solution. You 728 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: could use this thing, these giant sort of electrolyizer. Think 729 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: of me, what sets to create hydrogen and then hydrogen 730 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 1: you can store. And hydrogen is also more powerful than 731 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,319 Speaker 1: renewable energy, and so you could use hydrogen for those 732 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:49,240 Speaker 1: really high intensity jobs like steel and aluminium smelters for example. 733 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 1: So that's mat but again when it comes to baseload power, 734 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,280 Speaker 1: you need that reliability. You need to have the power 735 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,919 Speaker 1: on tap, and that means you need storage, and we've 736 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: got to get more and bigger storage. It probably happen 737 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 1: just like it's happening again. You know, we've gone from 738 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: having a Commodore sixty four in the eighties to something 739 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,239 Speaker 1: you can put in your pocket that's a million times 740 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 1: more powerful. That will probably happen with innovation. And this 741 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: leads to another story on Instagram says renewable energy is 742 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: not environmentally friendly, it is outrageously expensive and entirely unreliable. 743 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,959 Speaker 1: I adore you Joe, But realistically nuclear is the only 744 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: answer here. Look, it may well be or more likely 745 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: to be part of the answer, but again it's all 746 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 1: about size, and it's all about affordability in terms of 747 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,080 Speaker 1: not just what you pay on your electricity bill, but 748 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: how much it costs to build these plants. Now, yes, 749 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: there are lots of other countries who have had nuclear 750 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,280 Speaker 1: for years and years. I don't think nuclear is unsafe. 751 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,400 Speaker 1: I'm not one of those crazy sort of chernobyl people 752 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 1: or whatever. I'm fully supportive, just following the economics of it, 753 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: and at the moment, basically the idea is that the 754 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,000 Speaker 1: economics just aren't quite there yet. The cost of building 755 00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: a nuclear power plant is enormous. Oh I think put 756 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,719 Speaker 1: it at least eight billion just to sort of get 757 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,919 Speaker 1: off the ground. Typically those costs blow out. There's an 758 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 1: infamous case in the UK where the costs have just 759 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,880 Speaker 1: gone through the roof and it's multiple times that. And 760 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 1: then of course you've got to run and operate it 761 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 1: and all that stuff. Whereas to some extent, renewables, apart 762 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,120 Speaker 1: from the maintenance, kind of run themselves. The wind just 763 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 1: blows itself, the sun just shines itself. So then there's 764 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,799 Speaker 1: these other things called small modular reactors, which again could 765 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 1: be amazing. They could be like hydrogen, just this absolute 766 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,399 Speaker 1: game changer. And there are plenty of people who would 767 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:34,920 Speaker 1: love to see what they can do, including plenty of 768 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 1: people in the Labor Party. I would love to see 769 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,640 Speaker 1: what they can do. At the moment, they are just 770 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,840 Speaker 1: not commercially viable. So last I checked, people are trying 771 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 1: all sorts of things. No one's trying to lock this 772 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: stuff out. You know, there are other countries in the 773 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,240 Speaker 1: world that don't have the moratorium, which I think is stupid. 774 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,680 Speaker 1: We should be at least, you know, be prepared to 775 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: give these things a go instead of just banning them 776 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 1: before they've even started. It's just not there as commercially viable, 777 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 1: and everyone wants the things to be commercially viable. They 778 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: want them to work. It's no conspiracy against them, except 779 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: possibly in Australia by our current government. Joe, you did 780 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 1: such a great job. You answered every question. You are well. 781 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:18,800 Speaker 1: That is all we have time for today. Thank you 782 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: so much for listening to the real story. If you 783 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,600 Speaker 1: love what you're here, leave a rating and review. If 784 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,359 Speaker 1: you don't like what you're here, well, we don't deal 785 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,880 Speaker 1: with hypotheticals here on the Real Story. If you want 786 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,480 Speaker 1: us to cover anything on the podcast, reach out via 787 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,360 Speaker 1: socials or email The Real Story at novapodcast dot com 788 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 1: dot au, or you could slide into my dms on 789 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:40,040 Speaker 1: the IG. My handle is at Joe Underscore Hildebrand. And 790 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:41,920 Speaker 1: if you want even more of me, and let's face it, 791 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,600 Speaker 1: who can get enough? I've got columns in the Daily 792 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:49,200 Speaker 1: Telegraph on every Monday and every Saturday, and I'll see 793 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:50,160 Speaker 1: you all next week.