WEBVTT - Elon Musk’s plan to take over NASA

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<v Speaker 1>Elon Musk has been talking about Mars for a very

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<v Speaker 1>very very long time.

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<v Speaker 2>Emily Glazer is a reporter focused on power and influence

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<v Speaker 2>at the Wall Street Journal, and so for her, there's

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<v Speaker 2>no bigger story than Elon Musk.

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<v Speaker 1>For us, and I would say especially for me, we

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<v Speaker 1>were interested in understanding what Elon was doing to try

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<v Speaker 1>to get to Mars for several months, but then it

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<v Speaker 1>all kind of crystallized the week of President Trump's inauguration

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<v Speaker 1>because there was a very important sentence in there that

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<v Speaker 1>shruck a lot of people in the space community and elsewhere.

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<v Speaker 3>And we will pursue our manifest destiny into the stars,

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<v Speaker 3>launching American astronauts to plant.

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<v Speaker 1>The stars and stripes on the planet Mars. President Trump

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<v Speaker 1>in his inaugural address talked about having astronauts plant a

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<v Speaker 1>flag on ours.

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<v Speaker 4>Ambition is the lifeblood of a great nation, and right now,

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<v Speaker 4>on nation is more ambitious than any other. There's no nation.

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<v Speaker 2>What Emily knew is that this moment was something that

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<v Speaker 2>Musk had been working towards. The hundreds of millions of

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<v Speaker 2>dollars he put into Trump's campaign, the public support, a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of it came down to this.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's my plan.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll talk to Elin get those rocket ships going, because

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<v Speaker 2>we want to reach Mars before the end of my term.

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<v Speaker 5>We want to do it.

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<v Speaker 1>And we want to help.

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<v Speaker 2>From Schwartz Media, I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven AM today.

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<v Speaker 2>In part one of a special double episode, Emily Glazer

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<v Speaker 2>on how Musk is using his new powers to pursue

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<v Speaker 2>his Mars mission. It's Thursday, April ten. Emily, you were

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<v Speaker 2>watching as Donald Trump announced that he wanted to plant

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<v Speaker 2>a flag on Mars. So can you describe to me

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<v Speaker 2>what it was like to hear him say that?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I was actually at the World Economic Forum

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<v Speaker 1>atop the Swiss Mountains in Davos, Switzerland, And I am

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<v Speaker 1>not saying that as a humble brag. I swear I'm

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<v Speaker 1>saying that because there are a lot of space related

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<v Speaker 1>panels and programming there and different government space officials from

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<v Speaker 1>all over the world, and so it was a really

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<v Speaker 1>interesting place to be as President Trump was during his inauguration,

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<v Speaker 1>but also to go to these various space events, and

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<v Speaker 1>people were just floored. They were so excited. Multiple different people,

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<v Speaker 1>the head of the European Space Agency and the head

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<v Speaker 1>of the Japanese Space Agency both sat on the record

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<v Speaker 1>in interviews that it was akin to when JFK talked

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<v Speaker 1>about getting men on the Moon. I mean, this was

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<v Speaker 1>like a moment, and many in the space community were

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<v Speaker 1>very excited. They also wanted to get in on it.

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<v Speaker 1>I had the head of, you know, the Japanese Space

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<v Speaker 1>Agency talk about all the work Japan was doing in

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<v Speaker 1>researching minerals in Mars, and the European Space Agency was

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<v Speaker 1>talking about all of the collaboration, and then a whole

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of different space companies that were on the ground

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<v Speaker 1>there trying to kind of make a name for themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think that was when we were sort of like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>now that President Trump is putting it in his inaugural

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<v Speaker 1>address is a very big deal and something that the

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<v Speaker 1>White House may be prioritizing.

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<v Speaker 2>And so when you heard Trump talk about mos, did

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<v Speaker 2>you immediately think about Alon?

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<v Speaker 1>I think about Elon a lot, It's part of my job,

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<v Speaker 1>but absolutely I did. I mean, look, the Wall Street

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<v Speaker 1>Journal first broke the story about how Elon Musk and

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump had talked about Musk being should Trump win,

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<v Speaker 1>and so the relationship between Elon Musk and Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 1>has been on my mind for more than a year.

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<v Speaker 1>We wrote the article about Elon giving roughly forty five

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<v Speaker 1>million dollars a month toward reelecting President Trump. And part

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<v Speaker 1>of the reason, you know, why I was working on

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<v Speaker 1>this is the fruits of Elon's labors are coming home

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<v Speaker 1>to roost. And so when I heard that in the

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<v Speaker 1>inaugural address, the first thing that I thought of was, Wow,

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<v Speaker 1>Elon's influence. This is big time.

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<v Speaker 2>And Donald Trump recently announced his pick to take over

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<v Speaker 2>leading the Space Agency NESSA a billionaire entrepreneur named Jared Isaacman.

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<v Speaker 2>So what do we know about him?

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<v Speaker 1>Jared is an astronaut, and so he knows a lot

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<v Speaker 1>about space. He has experience, of course in space actually

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<v Speaker 1>like flying himself. And Elon Musk and Jared Isaacman have

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<v Speaker 1>known each other for years.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, I've been a you know, an aviation in

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<v Speaker 4>space enthusiast since Wilson's kindergarten. And you know, I thought,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, becoming an astronaut you a better chance of

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<v Speaker 4>getting struck by lightning. So I had this parallel career

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<v Speaker 4>in aviation.

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<v Speaker 1>Jared was an astronaut on SpaceX flights. The two we

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<v Speaker 1>know have hung out socially, and they've even given to

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<v Speaker 1>charitable causes together. And so far, everybody that I and

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<v Speaker 1>my colleagues have talked to have said that Isaacman, while

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<v Speaker 1>he's not like necessarily a traditional choice, you know, prior

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<v Speaker 1>and to Asset administrator, Jim Bridenstein was a congressman beforehand,

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<v Speaker 1>we've largely heard very positive things about Jared. Jared is

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<v Speaker 1>someone who really believes in exploring space, and a number

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<v Speaker 1>of people have actually shared that he is very risk tolerant,

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<v Speaker 1>to the point where we heard that even some people

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<v Speaker 1>at SpaceX have been worried in years past about his

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<v Speaker 1>level of risk, more so than the company itself.

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<v Speaker 4>My top agenda, when I'm incredibly passionate about, is the

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<v Speaker 4>competitiveness of our nation. You know, we started leading in

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<v Speaker 4>this new domain, we have to continue to do so.

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<v Speaker 1>So for example, on one mission that he flew, he

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to go at a higher altitude and that worried

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<v Speaker 1>some people within SpaceX, and he kind of pushed for it,

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<v Speaker 1>and they ended up flying at that higher altitude. They

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<v Speaker 1>were worried about kind of like debris space debris, and

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<v Speaker 1>he got his way. And so I found it really

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<v Speaker 1>interesting that he is someone that is open to risks,

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe that's part of what fuels this friendship with

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<v Speaker 1>Elon Musk. But it was very interesting when we learned

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<v Speaker 1>that Elon had actually called Jared on the phone to

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<v Speaker 1>offer him the NASA position.

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<v Speaker 2>And so do we know anymore about that phone call

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<v Speaker 2>between Musk and Asaka and what was said and then

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<v Speaker 2>I suppose what happened immediately afterwards.

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<v Speaker 1>So we know that this phone call happened late last

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<v Speaker 1>year and that Elon called Jared with a request and

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<v Speaker 1>it was basically wood Jared and become the head of NASA.

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<v Speaker 1>And part of Elon's pitch to Jared was that they

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<v Speaker 1>could make NASA great again and work toward their shared

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<v Speaker 1>ambition of getting humans to Mars. Our understanding is that

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<v Speaker 1>that was something that really sat well with Jared. And

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<v Speaker 1>soon after the call, Trump announced that Jared was appointed

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<v Speaker 1>NASA administrator. Trump intends to put tech billionaire and entrepreneur

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<v Speaker 1>Jared Isacman in charge of the government space agency. Isaac

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<v Speaker 1>One's appointment could shake up the race for a man.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so we have this very risk tolerant billionaire astronaut

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<v Speaker 2>announced as the next head of NASA. We're still waiting

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<v Speaker 2>for his confirmation and for him to begin at that role.

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<v Speaker 2>But tell me about what's been happening behind the scenes

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<v Speaker 2>at NASA since the Trump administration came to power.

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<v Speaker 1>So I've been kind of thinking about this in a

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<v Speaker 1>few different ways. One is that Elon Musk is installing

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<v Speaker 1>loyalists as head or key role of crucial agencies that

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<v Speaker 1>impact the ability to get to Mars. Obviously, that phone

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<v Speaker 1>call with Jared is like, you know, a huge example

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<v Speaker 1>of that. He also has been behind the scenes navigating

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<v Speaker 1>how to change federal spending so to get to programs

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<v Speaker 1>that are related to Mars. And then he also has

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<v Speaker 1>doge where he has access to you know, technology systems, personnel, budgets,

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<v Speaker 1>and has just tons of information. So there's been a

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<v Speaker 1>lot that Elon has been doing behind the scenes to

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<v Speaker 1>re order a number of NASA's programs. President Trump puts out,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, this announcement that Jared is appointed NASA administrator

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<v Speaker 1>and then NASA staff on January thirty. First got an

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<v Speaker 1>email that we reviewed from the agency's acting administrator, Janet Petro.

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<v Speaker 1>So she's the person who is leading NASA until there

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<v Speaker 1>is a confirmed NASA administrator, and they welcomed a new

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<v Speaker 1>senior advisor and it was a longtime SpaceX executive named

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<v Speaker 1>Michael Altenhoffen who had worked at SpaceX for like fifteen years.

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<v Speaker 1>And while he was at SpaceX, he also became close

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<v Speaker 1>to Isaacman and talks to Isaacman frequently. And he took

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<v Speaker 1>up this position right away ahead of the confirmation hearing.

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<v Speaker 1>And the way that it was described to us is

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<v Speaker 1>that he is basically shadowing the acting administrator. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>just one more person who has ties to Elon Musk,

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<v Speaker 1>who is now already at NASA even before Jared is confirmed.

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<v Speaker 2>So as Musk wants to slit up the timeline to

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<v Speaker 2>get to Mars, what would it take to get there?

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<v Speaker 2>That's off to the right.

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<v Speaker 5>Hi, I'm Daniel James. Seven I AM tells stories that

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<v Speaker 2>So, Emily, can we talk a bit more about Elon

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<v Speaker 2>Musk and his relationship to Mars. I mean, he's spoken

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<v Speaker 2>about it a lot in the past, you know, his

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<v Speaker 2>vision for humanity to get there. So tell me a

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<v Speaker 2>bit about the backstory here and how he's framing this

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<v Speaker 2>new push.

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<v Speaker 1>So Elon Musk founded SpaceX more than twenty years ago

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<v Speaker 1>in two thousand and two, and the mission was to

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<v Speaker 1>take humanity to other planets. That has totally infused SpaceX's

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<v Speaker 1>culture with that long term goal, and SpaceX was on

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<v Speaker 1>the brink of failure many different times. Why he did

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<v Speaker 1>a successful launch of its first rocket in two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>and eight after having failures beforehand.

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<v Speaker 4>We have the doc SpaceX Belcon one launch vehicle, the

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<v Speaker 4>Falcon that's.

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<v Speaker 1>Clear at the tower, and it eventually developed the Falcon

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<v Speaker 1>nine rocket and that could be partially reused. So this

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<v Speaker 1>was a game changer in the space industry because it

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<v Speaker 1>lowered the cost of launches, and it also took the

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<v Speaker 1>market share from incumbent rocket operators, especially a really large

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<v Speaker 1>company like Boeing. Over the years, Elon has talked about

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<v Speaker 1>Mars all the time, and he also talks a lot

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<v Speaker 1>about multiplanetary life.

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<v Speaker 3>Soship is the first rocket that has the potential to

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<v Speaker 3>make life multiplanetary, to make us a multi planet civilization

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<v Speaker 3>for the first time.

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<v Speaker 1>And he envisions a world or universe I guess I

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<v Speaker 1>should say where there's civilization on Mars. It even got

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<v Speaker 1>to the point where just recently SpaceX brought back these

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<v Speaker 1>ashnuts to turn them from space. It was like a

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<v Speaker 1>huge success for SpaceX and something that was seen around

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<v Speaker 1>the world. And Elon Musk had an interview with Fox

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<v Speaker 1>News and as he was being interviewed and asked about

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<v Speaker 1>all of this, he started talking about Mars and just

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<v Speaker 1>didn't want to stop.

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<v Speaker 3>We are going to be able to take Asronaltz to Mars.

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<v Speaker 3>In fact, we want to take anyone who goes to

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<v Speaker 3>Mars and ultimately build a self sustaining civilization on Mars.

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<v Speaker 3>That is the long term goal of the company, make

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<v Speaker 3>life healthy planetary.

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<v Speaker 2>And I mean, what would it actually take to make

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<v Speaker 2>something like that reality. What is it like on Mars

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<v Speaker 2>and what would it take to actually set up a

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<v Speaker 2>colony there?

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<v Speaker 1>Ooh, those are big questions. I mean, I will say

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of actually getting to Mars, just to break

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<v Speaker 1>this down a little bit. It can take roughly a

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<v Speaker 1>week to get to the Moon and back. It could

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<v Speaker 1>take an estimated two to three years for a round

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<v Speaker 1>trip between Earth and Mars, so let's just start there,

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<v Speaker 1>Like this is going to take a very long time.

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<v Speaker 1>What some people had mentioned to me is like the

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<v Speaker 1>clock is ticking because if Musk feels like he has

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<v Speaker 1>this four years while President Trump is in office to

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<v Speaker 1>try to accomplish this goal, that a number of people

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<v Speaker 1>in the space community, both on the commercial side and

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<v Speaker 1>government side across the world were kind of skeptical if

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<v Speaker 1>that could happen. And then let's just talk about the cost.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I talked to people that said, even if

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<v Speaker 1>you take all of the various costs of different programs

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<v Speaker 1>that NASA has, and if you redirected everything, so this

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<v Speaker 1>is like tens of billions of dollars, that still wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>be enough. And so there are also questions of if

0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:44.200
<v Speaker 1>Musk is able to shift some of the federal spending

0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.160
<v Speaker 1>toward Mars, would he also have to self fund some

0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:49.720
<v Speaker 1>of it. And we are talking about the richest man

0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.080
<v Speaker 1>of the world, So in some ways, the sky's the limit.

0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:58.319
<v Speaker 2>So everything about this seems incredibly ambitious, expensive, time consuming.

0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:00.720
<v Speaker 2>Why do you think it is that school wants it

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<v Speaker 2>so much to be able to be able to colony

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<v Speaker 2>on mass.

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<v Speaker 1>When I have talked to people close to Musk, they've

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<v Speaker 1>told me that his ultimate ambition is to get to Mars,

0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:15.400
<v Speaker 1>and that for his legacy, it's not about having power,

0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:17.960
<v Speaker 1>it's not about having money, it's not about having influence.

0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.800
<v Speaker 1>All those things are nice benefits that he is enjoying,

0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:23.840
<v Speaker 1>but he wants to be the person that can get

0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.240
<v Speaker 1>people to Mars. In terms of why he wants to

0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:31.000
<v Speaker 1>make life multiplanetary, I think that he feels like there

0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:33.680
<v Speaker 1>should be other options besides planet Earth, so that in

0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:38.280
<v Speaker 1>case there are you know, more natural disasters or other issues,

0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.320
<v Speaker 1>that there are other options. And I think he, along

0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.880
<v Speaker 1>with a lot of people in Silicon Valley and elsewhere,

0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.880
<v Speaker 1>hope that they can live a really long time. And

0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.760
<v Speaker 1>so I think he's thinking into the future, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>generations of where will humans live if Earth continues at

0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:57.840
<v Speaker 1>the rate that we're going at.

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.640
<v Speaker 2>Back tomorrow with part two of our interview with Emily

0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:07.160
<v Speaker 2>Glazer on how Musk's vision is jeopardizing NASA's current space projects.

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<v Speaker 1>There's this program at NASA that is known as Artemis,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's a long range plan to explore the Moon

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<v Speaker 1>and eventually Mars. And one idea that we know Musk

0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:21.880
<v Speaker 1>and government officials have talked about is a scenario where

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<v Speaker 1>SpaceX would give up its Moon focused Partemis contracts that

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<v Speaker 1>are worth more than four billion dollars and that would

0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.280
<v Speaker 1>kind of shift the money behind the scenes and also

0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:38.000
<v Speaker 1>frankly benefit SpaceX, which is the private space company that

0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:39.320
<v Speaker 1>Elon Mask runs.

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<v Speaker 2>Also in the news today, the latest round of US

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<v Speaker 2>tariffs on dozens of countries have come into effect, including

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<v Speaker 2>a one hundred and four percent retaliatory tariff against China.

0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:02.480
<v Speaker 2>President Trump almost doubled duties on Chinese imports, originally set

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<v Speaker 2>at fifty four percent, after China announced their own counter

0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.760
<v Speaker 2>tariffs and vowed to quote fight to the end over

0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.760
<v Speaker 2>what it views as blackmail. And the family of Dawn Singleton,

0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:15.720
<v Speaker 2>one of the Bon Dai Junction stabbing victims, has launched

0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:19.040
<v Speaker 2>legal action against the nine Network and the Sydney Morning Herald.

0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:23.000
<v Speaker 2>The action is over photos in nine's sixty Minutes program,

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<v Speaker 2>which they claim were used without their permission and was

0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.120
<v Speaker 2>launched ahead of the inquest into the deaths of seven

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<v Speaker 2>people killed at Bon Dai Junction, Westfield on April thirteen,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven AM.

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<v Speaker 2>See it Murray