Speaker 1: Elon Musk has been talking about Mars for a very
Speaker 1: very very long time.
Speaker 2: Emily Glazer is a reporter focused on power and influence
Speaker 2: at the Wall Street Journal, and so for her, there's
Speaker 2: no bigger story than Elon Musk.
Speaker 1: For us, and I would say especially for me, we
Speaker 1: were interested in understanding what Elon was doing to try
Speaker 1: to get to Mars for several months, but then it
Speaker 1: all kind of crystallized the week of President Trump's inauguration
Speaker 1: because there was a very important sentence in there that
Speaker 1: shruck a lot of people in the space community and elsewhere.
Speaker 3: And we will pursue our manifest destiny into the stars,
Speaker 3: launching American astronauts to plant.
Speaker 1: The stars and stripes on the planet Mars. President Trump
Speaker 1: in his inaugural address talked about having astronauts plant a
Speaker 1: flag on ours.
Speaker 4: Ambition is the lifeblood of a great nation, and right now,
Speaker 4: on nation is more ambitious than any other. There's no nation.
Speaker 2: What Emily knew is that this moment was something that
Speaker 2: Musk had been working towards. The hundreds of millions of
Speaker 2: dollars he put into Trump's campaign, the public support, a
Speaker 2: lot of it came down to this.
Speaker 1: And it's my plan.
Speaker 2: I'll talk to Elin get those rocket ships going, because
Speaker 2: we want to reach Mars before the end of my term.
Speaker 5: We want to do it.
Speaker 1: And we want to help.
Speaker 2: From Schwartz Media, I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven AM today.
Speaker 2: In part one of a special double episode, Emily Glazer
Speaker 2: on how Musk is using his new powers to pursue
Speaker 2: his Mars mission. It's Thursday, April ten. Emily, you were
Speaker 2: watching as Donald Trump announced that he wanted to plant
Speaker 2: a flag on Mars. So can you describe to me
Speaker 2: what it was like to hear him say that?
Speaker 1: You know, I was actually at the World Economic Forum
Speaker 1: atop the Swiss Mountains in Davos, Switzerland, And I am
Speaker 1: not saying that as a humble brag. I swear I'm
Speaker 1: saying that because there are a lot of space related
Speaker 1: panels and programming there and different government space officials from
Speaker 1: all over the world, and so it was a really
Speaker 1: interesting place to be as President Trump was during his inauguration,
Speaker 1: but also to go to these various space events, and
Speaker 1: people were just floored. They were so excited. Multiple different people,
Speaker 1: the head of the European Space Agency and the head
Speaker 1: of the Japanese Space Agency both sat on the record
Speaker 1: in interviews that it was akin to when JFK talked
Speaker 1: about getting men on the Moon. I mean, this was
Speaker 1: like a moment, and many in the space community were
Speaker 1: very excited. They also wanted to get in on it.
Speaker 1: I had the head of, you know, the Japanese Space
Speaker 1: Agency talk about all the work Japan was doing in
Speaker 1: researching minerals in Mars, and the European Space Agency was
Speaker 1: talking about all of the collaboration, and then a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of different space companies that were on the ground
Speaker 1: there trying to kind of make a name for themselves.
Speaker 1: So I think that was when we were sort of like, oh,
Speaker 1: now that President Trump is putting it in his inaugural
Speaker 1: address is a very big deal and something that the
Speaker 1: White House may be prioritizing.
Speaker 2: And so when you heard Trump talk about mos, did
Speaker 2: you immediately think about Alon?
Speaker 1: I think about Elon a lot, It's part of my job,
Speaker 1: but absolutely I did. I mean, look, the Wall Street
Speaker 1: Journal first broke the story about how Elon Musk and
Speaker 1: Donald Trump had talked about Musk being should Trump win,
Speaker 1: and so the relationship between Elon Musk and Donald Trump
Speaker 1: has been on my mind for more than a year.
Speaker 1: We wrote the article about Elon giving roughly forty five
Speaker 1: million dollars a month toward reelecting President Trump. And part
Speaker 1: of the reason, you know, why I was working on
Speaker 1: this is the fruits of Elon's labors are coming home
Speaker 1: to roost. And so when I heard that in the
Speaker 1: inaugural address, the first thing that I thought of was, Wow,
Speaker 1: Elon's influence. This is big time.
Speaker 2: And Donald Trump recently announced his pick to take over
Speaker 2: leading the Space Agency NESSA a billionaire entrepreneur named Jared Isaacman.
Speaker 2: So what do we know about him?
Speaker 1: Jared is an astronaut, and so he knows a lot
Speaker 1: about space. He has experience, of course in space actually
Speaker 1: like flying himself. And Elon Musk and Jared Isaacman have
Speaker 1: known each other for years.
Speaker 4: I mean, I've been a you know, an aviation in
Speaker 4: space enthusiast since Wilson's kindergarten. And you know, I thought,
Speaker 4: you know, becoming an astronaut you a better chance of
Speaker 4: getting struck by lightning. So I had this parallel career
Speaker 4: in aviation.
Speaker 1: Jared was an astronaut on SpaceX flights. The two we
Speaker 1: know have hung out socially, and they've even given to
Speaker 1: charitable causes together. And so far, everybody that I and
Speaker 1: my colleagues have talked to have said that Isaacman, while
Speaker 1: he's not like necessarily a traditional choice, you know, prior
Speaker 1: and to Asset administrator, Jim Bridenstein was a congressman beforehand,
Speaker 1: we've largely heard very positive things about Jared. Jared is
Speaker 1: someone who really believes in exploring space, and a number
Speaker 1: of people have actually shared that he is very risk tolerant,
Speaker 1: to the point where we heard that even some people
Speaker 1: at SpaceX have been worried in years past about his
Speaker 1: level of risk, more so than the company itself.
Speaker 4: My top agenda, when I'm incredibly passionate about, is the
Speaker 4: competitiveness of our nation. You know, we started leading in
Speaker 4: this new domain, we have to continue to do so.
Speaker 1: So for example, on one mission that he flew, he
Speaker 1: wanted to go at a higher altitude and that worried
Speaker 1: some people within SpaceX, and he kind of pushed for it,
Speaker 1: and they ended up flying at that higher altitude. They
Speaker 1: were worried about kind of like debris space debris, and
Speaker 1: he got his way. And so I found it really
Speaker 1: interesting that he is someone that is open to risks,
Speaker 1: and maybe that's part of what fuels this friendship with
Speaker 1: Elon Musk. But it was very interesting when we learned
Speaker 1: that Elon had actually called Jared on the phone to
Speaker 1: offer him the NASA position.
Speaker 2: And so do we know anymore about that phone call
Speaker 2: between Musk and Asaka and what was said and then
Speaker 2: I suppose what happened immediately afterwards.
Speaker 1: So we know that this phone call happened late last
Speaker 1: year and that Elon called Jared with a request and
Speaker 1: it was basically wood Jared and become the head of NASA.
Speaker 1: And part of Elon's pitch to Jared was that they
Speaker 1: could make NASA great again and work toward their shared
Speaker 1: ambition of getting humans to Mars. Our understanding is that
Speaker 1: that was something that really sat well with Jared. And
Speaker 1: soon after the call, Trump announced that Jared was appointed
Speaker 1: NASA administrator. Trump intends to put tech billionaire and entrepreneur
Speaker 1: Jared Isacman in charge of the government space agency. Isaac
Speaker 1: One's appointment could shake up the race for a man.
Speaker 2: Okay, so we have this very risk tolerant billionaire astronaut
Speaker 2: announced as the next head of NASA. We're still waiting
Speaker 2: for his confirmation and for him to begin at that role.
Speaker 2: But tell me about what's been happening behind the scenes
Speaker 2: at NASA since the Trump administration came to power.
Speaker 1: So I've been kind of thinking about this in a
Speaker 1: few different ways. One is that Elon Musk is installing
Speaker 1: loyalists as head or key role of crucial agencies that
Speaker 1: impact the ability to get to Mars. Obviously, that phone
Speaker 1: call with Jared is like, you know, a huge example
Speaker 1: of that. He also has been behind the scenes navigating
Speaker 1: how to change federal spending so to get to programs
Speaker 1: that are related to Mars. And then he also has
Speaker 1: doge where he has access to you know, technology systems, personnel, budgets,
Speaker 1: and has just tons of information. So there's been a
Speaker 1: lot that Elon has been doing behind the scenes to
Speaker 1: re order a number of NASA's programs. President Trump puts out,
Speaker 1: you know, this announcement that Jared is appointed NASA administrator
Speaker 1: and then NASA staff on January thirty. First got an
Speaker 1: email that we reviewed from the agency's acting administrator, Janet Petro.
Speaker 1: So she's the person who is leading NASA until there
Speaker 1: is a confirmed NASA administrator, and they welcomed a new
Speaker 1: senior advisor and it was a longtime SpaceX executive named
Speaker 1: Michael Altenhoffen who had worked at SpaceX for like fifteen years.
Speaker 1: And while he was at SpaceX, he also became close
Speaker 1: to Isaacman and talks to Isaacman frequently. And he took
Speaker 1: up this position right away ahead of the confirmation hearing.
Speaker 1: And the way that it was described to us is
Speaker 1: that he is basically shadowing the acting administrator. And that's
Speaker 1: just one more person who has ties to Elon Musk,
Speaker 1: who is now already at NASA even before Jared is confirmed.
Speaker 2: So as Musk wants to slit up the timeline to
Speaker 2: get to Mars, what would it take to get there?
Speaker 2: That's off to the right.
Speaker 5: Hi, I'm Daniel James. Seven I AM tells stories that
Speaker 5: need to be told. A journalism is fan that on
Speaker 5: trust and independence and now we're increasing our coverage. Every
Speaker 5: Saturday until the election, we'll bring you an extra episode
Speaker 5: to break down the biggest political moments of the week.
Speaker 5: If you enjoy seven Am, the best way you can
Speaker 5: support us is by making a contribution at seven am
Speaker 5: podcast dot com dotu slash support. Thanks for listening. And
Speaker 5: supporting our work.
Speaker 2: So, Emily, can we talk a bit more about Elon
Speaker 2: Musk and his relationship to Mars. I mean, he's spoken
Speaker 2: about it a lot in the past, you know, his
Speaker 2: vision for humanity to get there. So tell me a
Speaker 2: bit about the backstory here and how he's framing this
Speaker 2: new push.
Speaker 1: So Elon Musk founded SpaceX more than twenty years ago
Speaker 1: in two thousand and two, and the mission was to
Speaker 1: take humanity to other planets. That has totally infused SpaceX's
Speaker 1: culture with that long term goal, and SpaceX was on
Speaker 1: the brink of failure many different times. Why he did
Speaker 1: a successful launch of its first rocket in two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight after having failures beforehand.
Speaker 4: We have the doc SpaceX Belcon one launch vehicle, the
Speaker 4: Falcon that's.
Speaker 1: Clear at the tower, and it eventually developed the Falcon
Speaker 1: nine rocket and that could be partially reused. So this
Speaker 1: was a game changer in the space industry because it
Speaker 1: lowered the cost of launches, and it also took the
Speaker 1: market share from incumbent rocket operators, especially a really large
Speaker 1: company like Boeing. Over the years, Elon has talked about
Speaker 1: Mars all the time, and he also talks a lot
Speaker 1: about multiplanetary life.
Speaker 3: Soship is the first rocket that has the potential to
Speaker 3: make life multiplanetary, to make us a multi planet civilization
Speaker 3: for the first time.
Speaker 1: And he envisions a world or universe I guess I
Speaker 1: should say where there's civilization on Mars. It even got
Speaker 1: to the point where just recently SpaceX brought back these
Speaker 1: ashnuts to turn them from space. It was like a
Speaker 1: huge success for SpaceX and something that was seen around
Speaker 1: the world. And Elon Musk had an interview with Fox
Speaker 1: News and as he was being interviewed and asked about
Speaker 1: all of this, he started talking about Mars and just
Speaker 1: didn't want to stop.
Speaker 3: We are going to be able to take Asronaltz to Mars.
Speaker 3: In fact, we want to take anyone who goes to
Speaker 3: Mars and ultimately build a self sustaining civilization on Mars.
Speaker 3: That is the long term goal of the company, make
Speaker 3: life healthy planetary.
Speaker 2: And I mean, what would it actually take to make
Speaker 2: something like that reality. What is it like on Mars
Speaker 2: and what would it take to actually set up a
Speaker 2: colony there?
Speaker 1: Ooh, those are big questions. I mean, I will say
Speaker 1: in terms of actually getting to Mars, just to break
Speaker 1: this down a little bit. It can take roughly a
Speaker 1: week to get to the Moon and back. It could
Speaker 1: take an estimated two to three years for a round
Speaker 1: trip between Earth and Mars, so let's just start there,
Speaker 1: Like this is going to take a very long time.
Speaker 1: What some people had mentioned to me is like the
Speaker 1: clock is ticking because if Musk feels like he has
Speaker 1: this four years while President Trump is in office to
Speaker 1: try to accomplish this goal, that a number of people
Speaker 1: in the space community, both on the commercial side and
Speaker 1: government side across the world were kind of skeptical if
Speaker 1: that could happen. And then let's just talk about the cost.
Speaker 1: I mean, I talked to people that said, even if
Speaker 1: you take all of the various costs of different programs
Speaker 1: that NASA has, and if you redirected everything, so this
Speaker 1: is like tens of billions of dollars, that still wouldn't
Speaker 1: be enough. And so there are also questions of if
Speaker 1: Musk is able to shift some of the federal spending
Speaker 1: toward Mars, would he also have to self fund some
Speaker 1: of it. And we are talking about the richest man
Speaker 1: of the world, So in some ways, the sky's the limit.
Speaker 2: So everything about this seems incredibly ambitious, expensive, time consuming.
Speaker 2: Why do you think it is that school wants it
Speaker 2: so much to be able to be able to colony
Speaker 2: on mass.
Speaker 1: When I have talked to people close to Musk, they've
Speaker 1: told me that his ultimate ambition is to get to Mars,
Speaker 1: and that for his legacy, it's not about having power,
Speaker 1: it's not about having money, it's not about having influence.
Speaker 1: All those things are nice benefits that he is enjoying,
Speaker 1: but he wants to be the person that can get
Speaker 1: people to Mars. In terms of why he wants to
Speaker 1: make life multiplanetary, I think that he feels like there
Speaker 1: should be other options besides planet Earth, so that in
Speaker 1: case there are you know, more natural disasters or other issues,
Speaker 1: that there are other options. And I think he, along
Speaker 1: with a lot of people in Silicon Valley and elsewhere,
Speaker 1: hope that they can live a really long time. And
Speaker 1: so I think he's thinking into the future, you know,
Speaker 1: generations of where will humans live if Earth continues at
Speaker 1: the rate that we're going at.
Speaker 2: Back tomorrow with part two of our interview with Emily
Speaker 2: Glazer on how Musk's vision is jeopardizing NASA's current space projects.
Speaker 1: There's this program at NASA that is known as Artemis,
Speaker 1: and it's a long range plan to explore the Moon
Speaker 1: and eventually Mars. And one idea that we know Musk
Speaker 1: and government officials have talked about is a scenario where
Speaker 1: SpaceX would give up its Moon focused Partemis contracts that
Speaker 1: are worth more than four billion dollars and that would
Speaker 1: kind of shift the money behind the scenes and also
Speaker 1: frankly benefit SpaceX, which is the private space company that
Speaker 1: Elon Mask runs.
Speaker 2: Also in the news today, the latest round of US
Speaker 2: tariffs on dozens of countries have come into effect, including
Speaker 2: a one hundred and four percent retaliatory tariff against China.
Speaker 2: President Trump almost doubled duties on Chinese imports, originally set
Speaker 2: at fifty four percent, after China announced their own counter
Speaker 2: tariffs and vowed to quote fight to the end over
Speaker 2: what it views as blackmail. And the family of Dawn Singleton,
Speaker 2: one of the Bon Dai Junction stabbing victims, has launched
Speaker 2: legal action against the nine Network and the Sydney Morning Herald.
Speaker 2: The action is over photos in nine's sixty Minutes program,
Speaker 2: which they claim were used without their permission and was
Speaker 2: launched ahead of the inquest into the deaths of seven
Speaker 2: people killed at Bon Dai Junction, Westfield on April thirteen,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven AM.
Speaker 2: See it Murray