Speaker 1: Yeah, well, my top podcast is Joe Rogan, a guy
Speaker 1: called Ja Rogan. I wouldn't do that to you, or
Speaker 1: the seven Am listener.
Speaker 2: From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven Am
Speaker 2: Summer series. Every day. This week, critics from the Saturday
Speaker 2: Paper and beyond I bring you their top picks of
Speaker 2: the year. We add books, TV music, and today we
Speaker 2: have podcasts. Twenty twenty four was a year where we
Speaker 2: saw Donald Trump win an election on the back of
Speaker 2: the podbrow vote. But today's Pictaker is in a very
Speaker 2: different direction now. I don't know anyone who listens to
Speaker 2: as many podcasts as our senior producer Shane Andsen. Anytime
Speaker 2: anyone on the seven Am production team needs a recommendation,
Speaker 2: we turned to Shane. She's pood three shows for your
Speaker 2: Boxing Day, Food Haze and the Long Road Trips Ahead.
Speaker 2: It's Thursday, December twenty sixth Shane, thanks for being here.
Speaker 2: Let's get into it. What's your first pick?
Speaker 1: The very first pick I want to start with is
Speaker 1: hands down my favorite podcast of the year, which is
Speaker 1: thrill Seekers from the CBC.
Speaker 2: Listen very carefully.
Speaker 3: I'm now going to give you the big picture.
Speaker 4: I remember telling everyone to be quiet because I couldn't
Speaker 4: hear what you're saying.
Speaker 2: I'm so bossy, you know, be quiet, be quite. I
Speaker 2: need to hear what you're saying.
Speaker 5: You are about to become and.
Speaker 1: I don't think I quite processed what he was saying.
Speaker 3: The very first televised British.
Speaker 2: I had a bit of a listen to this and
Speaker 2: I'll be fascinating to hear your take on it because
Speaker 2: it's a very unique podcast.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the premise is it's two thousand and five and
Speaker 1: a group of ordinary people across the UK have responded
Speaker 1: to an ad for a reality TV show that simply
Speaker 1: is asking for people who are up for an Adventure
Speaker 1: of a lifetime.
Speaker 4: It said, do you want to go an adventure and
Speaker 4: do something that's really exciting hasn't been done before we
Speaker 4: launching a new TV show.
Speaker 5: And why the people contestants did on the Adventure.
Speaker 4: Of the Lifetime.
Speaker 1: But they don't tell the prospective contestants anything about the
Speaker 1: type of show that they're going to be on until
Speaker 1: it starts filming. So the twists and the reveals of
Speaker 1: this podcast is really where the joy comes from. But
Speaker 1: it does also make it difficult to talk about without
Speaker 1: spoiling too many details, which I'll try not to do,
Speaker 1: but I can guarantee this is such a fun ride
Speaker 1: and also speaks a surprising amount to the climate that
Speaker 1: we're in where our consensus reality is feeling more fragile
Speaker 1: than ever.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, the word deceiving is It's a very
Speaker 4: loaded word, isn't it. These people were genuinely up for
Speaker 4: an adventure, wanted to take part in a TV show
Speaker 4: that was going to be a bit of a roller coaster,
Speaker 4: and they certainly got.
Speaker 2: That until finally.
Speaker 1: So thrill Seck is non narrated, so it's entirely told
Speaker 1: through interviews with the different contestants, and the fact that
Speaker 1: you're able to build a podcast from that is truly
Speaker 1: a testament to Nick Vanderkolk, who's the force behind it.
Speaker 1: He's from Love and Radio, which is known for its
Speaker 1: really in depth, sensitive interviews, and so it has a
Speaker 1: cast of characters that you get to know really quickly,
Speaker 1: and they take you on this journey through being part
Speaker 1: of the show as it's filming, to finding out the
Speaker 1: true nature of the TV show and that reality unfolds
Speaker 1: for them at the same time it unfolds for you.
Speaker 1: As a listener, which makes it compelling to listen to
Speaker 1: and gives you all of these little surprises. And then
Speaker 1: I think the thing that really makes thrill Seekers stand
Speaker 1: out as a podcast is the final episode. It is
Speaker 1: really really hard to stick the landing, especially in a
Speaker 1: narrative podcast, but thrill Seekers does it in a way
Speaker 1: I don't know I've ever heard a podcast do before.
Speaker 1: It has one final reveal that plays out, and it
Speaker 1: does so in a way that's both kind of funny
Speaker 1: and horrifying and sticks with you long after the ending.
Speaker 2: I'm halfway through episode three, and it really took me
Speaker 2: till about halfway through episode two to actually orientate myself
Speaker 2: in the story, because, like you said, there is no
Speaker 2: narrator and you're just being guided along by these very
Speaker 2: big personalities being thrown into this situation. But once you
Speaker 2: get it, and once you get the format, and once
Speaker 2: you come to know the characters, and once you get
Speaker 2: to know or get an inkling of where you think
Speaker 2: it's going, it's really compelling listening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I can guarantee where you think it's going,
Speaker 1: it's not where it's going to go if you're only
Speaker 1: at episode three, which is why it's so fun.
Speaker 2: Is there anything else that's similar out there to this?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well, reality TV is really fertile ground for podcasts. The
Speaker 1: main one that brings to mind is Harsh Reality, which
Speaker 1: is the story of the There's Something about Miriam show,
Speaker 1: which was horrifically unethic, and that podcast came out a
Speaker 1: few years ago. It's really great. I think this is
Speaker 1: a kin to that show, But for me, thrill Seekers
Speaker 1: is really elevated in the way it tackles kind of
Speaker 1: bigger questions outside of the show about you know, the
Speaker 1: nature of truth and reality and how easy it is
Speaker 1: to build a world, a contained world for these contestants
Speaker 1: and to convince them of the truth of something, only
Speaker 1: to kind of rip the curtain away. And I think
Speaker 1: that fragility of our experience of reality speaks a lot
Speaker 1: to the current climate in a way that I found
Speaker 1: really refreshing and unique.
Speaker 2: Layers within layers. That's Thrill Seekers by CBC. Shane, What
Speaker 2: else have you got for us?
Speaker 1: The second offering is by Boston Public Radio and it's
Speaker 1: called Beyond All Repair?
Speaker 5: Did You Kill?
Speaker 2: Marlene Johnson? I think you're one of the first people
Speaker 2: to have actually asked.
Speaker 5: How could that be when you were put on trial
Speaker 5: for murder, because.
Speaker 2: I wasn't asked. I was told, you know, I know
Speaker 2: this happened, we know you killed Marlene. Just told me
Speaker 2: what happened, all right, So I had a quick listen
Speaker 2: to this one as well. This is something that's probably
Speaker 2: easier to get into because it does have that traditional
Speaker 2: narrative structure with a narrada and a host that takes
Speaker 2: you through the story. But what's it about.
Speaker 1: It's a true crime podcast, and I think one of
Speaker 1: the best true crime podcasts in a couple of years,
Speaker 1: maybe at a stretch since Cereal, which is the yardstick
Speaker 1: by which we measure all crime podcasts. And Beyond All
Speaker 1: Repair is the story of Sophia Johnson, who was accused
Speaker 1: of murdering her mother in law twenty years ago in
Speaker 1: the early two thousands. She's always maintained her innocence, even
Speaker 1: though she was convicted or went to prison for it.
Speaker 1: She has a younger brother called Shane Carrier, who was
Speaker 1: just a kid at the time of the murder. He's
Speaker 1: now grown up and he's working in a prosecutor's office.
Speaker 1: He decides to team up with reporter Amory Steberson to
Speaker 1: look at you know, did she do it? If she
Speaker 1: didn't do it, who did. And it's not just about
Speaker 1: the question of innocence. It's also about systemic family abuse.
Speaker 1: It's about it's about what the prison system does to
Speaker 1: pregnant women, it's about the injustices of the court system.
Speaker 1: But what it keeps at its heart is the relationship
Speaker 1: between the brother and sister, Sophia and Shane.
Speaker 2: Shall we hear a clip?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to play you the very first minute
Speaker 1: of the first episode to give you context. What you're
Speaker 1: about to hear is a voicemail recordings sort have been
Speaker 1: left to Shane Krreya, who's the one who's working with
Speaker 1: Amory to tell this story.
Speaker 2: Shane, you have no.
Speaker 3: Idea how much I'm trying to protect you, little brother.
Speaker 3: You don't know it yet, but you're being misled.
Speaker 6: Mister shame.
Speaker 1: Good morning.
Speaker 6: Oh you're doing.
Speaker 3: Listen to me carefully.
Speaker 4: You're not ready for what will come down if you
Speaker 4: don't stop your nonsense and keep away.
Speaker 3: If you, guys attempt to sabotage or to trouble me
Speaker 3: in any which way, or to try to slow down
Speaker 3: my life, I'm going to fight you.
Speaker 2: Guys.
Speaker 6: You don't know what you're playing with.
Speaker 3: Okay. I wanted nothing to do with it in the beginning,
Speaker 3: and up to now, I still want nothing to do
Speaker 3: with it.
Speaker 5: Dark about me, I don't lie on me, but I'm.
Speaker 3: Not going to let anybody lie on me.
Speaker 6: Okay, Okay, you're Washington, Judress, You're wicked.
Speaker 3: All I'm doing is I'm giving you fear fucking warning.
Speaker 3: If you come at me, I'm going to destroy you too.
Speaker 1: It's an incredibly detailed, meticulous investigation that looks at the
Speaker 1: Career family and their history, and the further you get
Speaker 1: into that family's past, the more muddy the story becomes.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot about this that on the surface
Speaker 1: could seem like just, you know, another run of the
Speaker 1: mill true crime, but it's the craft behind it that
Speaker 1: really elevates it. Amor's scripting is amazing. She even composes
Speaker 1: the music, which is catchy. There's just so much talent
Speaker 1: and hard work and just like a cosmic alignment that
Speaker 1: comes together to make this so good.
Speaker 2: Coming up after the Break, Shane picks the best Indie
Speaker 2: Australian podcast of the year.
Speaker 1: It's not as heavy as true crime unless you're afraid
Speaker 1: of spiders.
Speaker 2: Okay, Shane, two recommended podcasts down, one to go. What
Speaker 2: can you tell us about Umveldt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm really excited to talk about Umveldt. It's an
Speaker 1: Australian independent production. It's by local audio engineer and producer
Speaker 1: Ryan Pemberton and it's a great little mini series that
Speaker 1: dropped a couple of months ago, all about getting inside
Speaker 1: the minds of animals and that's what the word umveldt is.
Speaker 6: So the idea behind the term umveldt is that every
Speaker 6: animal has a unique experience of the world, which is
Speaker 6: shaped by their senses and the way that they interact
Speaker 6: with their environment. And in this podcast, we're asking can
Speaker 6: we expand our understanding and empathy for other animals by
Speaker 6: trying to understand their unique umvelts. That's the premise.
Speaker 2: It's pretty solid premise.
Speaker 1: You've got to be able to back it up. If
Speaker 1: you choose an obscure German word for the name of
Speaker 1: your podcast, probably shouldn't say that. So that's the premise.
Speaker 1: And there's four episodes and each one is dedicated to
Speaker 1: getting inside the subjective world of a different animal. There's whales, octopus, mantis, shrimp,
Speaker 1: and my favorite one, which is the Porsche Jumping Spider.
Speaker 1: It's told through conversations with these scientists who are experts
Speaker 1: in the field, and through them you learn about how
Speaker 1: animals talk, dream count fight, etc. All set to this
Speaker 1: really captivating sound design that tries to draw you into
Speaker 1: the animal's world. It's kind of like a meditative biology.
Speaker 5: When Porsche reaches the edge of another spider's web, it
Speaker 5: doesn't necessarily lunge into the web to capture that spider.
Speaker 5: It can actually lure that spider over by starting to
Speaker 5: use its eight legs and two legi like structures in
Speaker 5: front of its face called pettipalps that it can use
Speaker 5: to start plucking the silk strands of that spider's web.
Speaker 5: It makes these movements on the silk that appear to
Speaker 5: mimic the movements of a struggling insect caught in the web.
Speaker 5: Sometimes Porsche will spend hours doing this, and so the
Speaker 5: resident spider feels those movements and it's walking across to
Speaker 5: the source of that movement, and when that spider comes
Speaker 5: to a safe distance from Porsche, then jumps and grabs
Speaker 5: that spider and eats it.
Speaker 2: Do we have Porsche jumping spiders in Australia.
Speaker 1: Yes, they are found in Australia.
Speaker 2: That's something to look out for.
Speaker 1: They're pretty cool.
Speaker 2: That totally depends on your perspective. Shame. So this has
Speaker 2: all been produced, everything's been done by Ryan himself, that's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So he comes from an audio engineering background and this
Speaker 1: is his first foray into presenting and hosting a podcast,
Speaker 1: and I think he does an excellent job of combining
Speaker 1: the technical sound elements with a really fun and light interview.
Speaker 1: I think it has been a big year for animal
Speaker 1: related podcasts. There's been The Good Whale, which is out
Speaker 1: at the moment from Cereal Productions, and Animal which is
Speaker 1: also New York Times. But I think there's something about
Speaker 1: Umvelt that sets it apart from the others, and for me,
Speaker 1: it's the scientific curiosity. It creates this kind of listening
Speaker 1: experience where it's like kind of like slow listening. It's
Speaker 1: very peaceful, it's very calming, even though you're listening to
Speaker 1: you know, a spider kill and eat its prey.
Speaker 2: Shane Anderson, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Daniel.
Speaker 2: Before I go, I wanted to tell you about my
Speaker 2: favorite shows of the year. The first one would be
Speaker 2: probably something that most listeners are probably familiar with. It's
Speaker 2: been around for a while. It's called through Line from NPR.
Speaker 2: It's basically a history podcast that takes a deep dive
Speaker 2: into a whole bunch of different issues. The one I
Speaker 2: found of particular interest this year was is deep Dive
Speaker 2: into the Electoral College, because there is yet to be
Speaker 2: an expert that I've heard probably explain what the electoral
Speaker 2: college is and what purpose it serves and where it
Speaker 2: comes from. So that's through Line through NPR. And the
Speaker 2: other one that I have been listening to a lot
Speaker 2: this year, and it's a few years old now, but
Speaker 2: it's called Lights Out from BBC Radio four, and it's
Speaker 2: a podcast series that presents immersive soundwich documentaries, encouraging listeners
Speaker 2: to engage deeply with diverse narratives. My favorite one was
Speaker 2: Call Signs, which are chronicles of radio amateur in Kiev
Speaker 2: during the Russian invasion, highlighting his experiences of sending and
Speaker 2: receiving signals at the start of that particular conflict. That episode,
Speaker 2: in particular takes you right to what makes you feel
Speaker 2: like you're there as much as you can't be while
Speaker 2: you're either listening in bed, on a bus or on
Speaker 2: a couch. But they're my two big ones. I'm Daniel James.
Speaker 2: This is seven AM Summer Series and I'll be back
Speaker 2: tomorrow with a conversation with film curator and writer for
Speaker 2: the monthly Cake Jinx. I'm the best films of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four. It's a great conversation, so I'll catch you
Speaker 2: then