1 00:00:03,470 --> 00:00:06,050 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,050 --> 00:00:09,340 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. If you have ever searched online for information about 3 00:00:09,340 --> 00:00:13,030 Sean Aylmer: credit cards or home loans or insurance or mobile phone 4 00:00:13,030 --> 00:00:16,980 Sean Aylmer: plans, then chances are you've ended up on Finder founded 5 00:00:16,980 --> 00:00:20,170 Sean Aylmer: in 2006. It's a comparison site that aimed to help 6 00:00:20,170 --> 00:00:24,550 Sean Aylmer: people may make better decisions. But the story behind Finder is 7 00:00:24,550 --> 00:00:27,980 Sean Aylmer: a fascinating one, started by two schoolmates who both ended 8 00:00:27,980 --> 00:00:31,260 Sean Aylmer: up on the AFA Young Rich List by growing the business to 9 00:00:31,260 --> 00:00:34,480 Sean Aylmer: run websites in dozens of countries, employing hundreds of people, 10 00:00:34,890 --> 00:00:38,130 Sean Aylmer: Fred Schebesta is one of those founders. He's an entrepreneur, 11 00:00:38,229 --> 00:00:41,250 Sean Aylmer: a blogger, a writer, and a passionate advocate of other 12 00:00:41,250 --> 00:00:43,199 Sean Aylmer: startups. Fred, welcome to Fear and Greed. 13 00:00:43,700 --> 00:00:46,540 Fred Schebesta: How you guys going? You guys got a sick name for 14 00:00:46,540 --> 00:00:47,450 Fred Schebesta: a podcast. 15 00:00:48,510 --> 00:00:48,570 Sean Aylmer: Fear and Greed, you reckon? 16 00:00:48,909 --> 00:00:51,229 Fred Schebesta: Yeah. It's like one of those risky ideas. It's like 17 00:00:51,229 --> 00:00:53,050 Fred Schebesta: someone... You guys were sitting around and then you're like, 18 00:00:53,260 --> 00:00:55,670 Fred Schebesta: how about Fear and Greed? And someone was like, man, that's pretty 19 00:00:55,670 --> 00:00:57,260 Fred Schebesta: out there. And you were like, yeah, let's just go 20 00:00:57,260 --> 00:00:58,360 Fred Schebesta: for it. And that's what you guys did. 21 00:00:58,670 --> 00:01:01,870 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. In fact from this moment, that's exactly the story 22 00:01:01,870 --> 00:01:04,370 Sean Aylmer: we're coming up with. The reality is that two things 23 00:01:04,370 --> 00:01:06,399 Sean Aylmer: drive share markets, fear and greed. 24 00:01:06,750 --> 00:01:06,841 Fred Schebesta: That's true. 25 00:01:06,841 --> 00:01:10,620 Sean Aylmer: But I'm going to go with yours, Fred. Okay. So tell me 26 00:01:10,900 --> 00:01:14,440 Sean Aylmer: Finder, where'd it come from? Give me a thumbnail sketch. 27 00:01:15,060 --> 00:01:17,330 Fred Schebesta: Well, it's really, I think it started as an experiment, 28 00:01:17,500 --> 00:01:21,630 Fred Schebesta: like all great businesses. And the experiment was in the 29 00:01:21,630 --> 00:01:25,890 Fred Schebesta: beginning, can we put something compelling together in order to 30 00:01:25,890 --> 00:01:29,610 Fred Schebesta: attract people so that we can help them make a 31 00:01:29,610 --> 00:01:32,920 Fred Schebesta: comparison on their credit cards? And I think if I was to make 32 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,180 Fred Schebesta: it even more raw, the actual idea, the experiment before that 33 00:01:36,180 --> 00:01:39,500 Fred Schebesta: was, hey, let's put something together in order to rank 34 00:01:39,500 --> 00:01:41,929 Fred Schebesta: number one in Google for credit card, it was obviously 35 00:01:41,930 --> 00:01:43,709 Fred Schebesta: a bit more of a raw idea. And then from 36 00:01:43,709 --> 00:01:46,280 Fred Schebesta: that genesis of an idea is you need to figure 37 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,070 Fred Schebesta: out what are you going to put on there? And 38 00:01:48,370 --> 00:01:51,120 Fred Schebesta: what value are you going to provide to people? I 39 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,240 Fred Schebesta: think that's really where it started. And then that idea 40 00:01:54,550 --> 00:02:00,660 Fred Schebesta: performed quite well. And really I'd say a wandering crafting, 41 00:02:00,690 --> 00:02:04,300 Fred Schebesta: creationist that we tend to be, we've been innovating and 42 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,720 Fred Schebesta: creating things to extend upon that and doing that for 43 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:09,780 Fred Schebesta: a long period of time. And I have this thesis that 44 00:02:09,780 --> 00:02:13,290 Fred Schebesta: if any business... I'm quite an investor as well. I 45 00:02:13,290 --> 00:02:17,560 Fred Schebesta: love to invest. It takes a domain space and really 46 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,650 Fred Schebesta: a single minded focus and focuses on it for a 47 00:02:19,650 --> 00:02:22,130 Fred Schebesta: long, long period of time. I think it's quite fascinating 48 00:02:22,130 --> 00:02:24,560 Fred Schebesta: as to where that goes. And in this case, we 49 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,700 Fred Schebesta: focused on comparing things and helping people save money. And 50 00:02:27,700 --> 00:02:31,110 Fred Schebesta: now we've really evolved that to helping people make money. So investing 51 00:02:31,110 --> 00:02:33,510 Fred Schebesta: through the stock market of my cryptocurrencies and things like 52 00:02:33,510 --> 00:02:34,019 Fred Schebesta: that as well. 53 00:02:34,220 --> 00:02:36,730 Sean Aylmer: So, I mean, I've used to Finder many, many years 54 00:02:36,730 --> 00:02:39,550 Sean Aylmer: ago on credit cards exactly that. And you're not an 55 00:02:39,550 --> 00:02:41,830 Sean Aylmer: overnight success as you're pointing out because you've been going 56 00:02:41,830 --> 00:02:44,160 Sean Aylmer: for a long while, but you have evolved. So tell 57 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,810 Sean Aylmer: us exactly what I can do with Finder now. So 58 00:02:47,810 --> 00:02:50,600 Sean Aylmer: we start with credit cards. What are those products? And then just explain 59 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:51,760 Sean Aylmer: the investing bit a bit more. 60 00:02:52,330 --> 00:02:55,440 Fred Schebesta: Yeah, sure. Right now there are different experiences you can 61 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,500 Fred Schebesta: have and it depends on how keen you are to 62 00:02:57,790 --> 00:03:00,440 Fred Schebesta: really get into your credit card. You can read obviously 63 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,880 Fred Schebesta: articles and guides about collecting points. A lot of people have 64 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,030 Fred Schebesta: debt they want to balance transfer. And right now what 65 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,290 Fred Schebesta: you can do is connect up your credit score, we 66 00:03:09,290 --> 00:03:11,790 Fred Schebesta: give you a free credit score in Australia or in 67 00:03:11,790 --> 00:03:14,880 Fred Schebesta: the UK right now. And from that, you can actually 68 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:16,889 Fred Schebesta: use that to, what we do is we have a 69 00:03:16,889 --> 00:03:20,280 Fred Schebesta: machine running algorithm that actually worked out your chance of 70 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,419 Fred Schebesta: being approved for a credit card, before you apply. So 71 00:03:23,419 --> 00:03:25,350 Fred Schebesta: you can just download the app. We can tell you 72 00:03:25,350 --> 00:03:27,430 Fred Schebesta: obviously the best deals, and then we can tell you 73 00:03:27,430 --> 00:03:29,650 Fred Schebesta: which ones you're probably going to get approved for. And 74 00:03:29,650 --> 00:03:31,169 Fred Schebesta: then you can go on to apply for that card. 75 00:03:31,330 --> 00:03:34,490 Fred Schebesta: And I think that's really a key genesis of the 76 00:03:34,490 --> 00:03:38,320 Fred Schebesta: business in terms of investing. We write about all sorts 77 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,500 Fred Schebesta: of different cryptocurrencies, you write about all sorts of stocks and you obviously, 78 00:03:41,740 --> 00:03:43,480 Fred Schebesta: if you want to get yield, which is kind of 79 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,770 Fred Schebesta: hard right now, in terms of interest and things like 80 00:03:46,770 --> 00:03:49,010 Fred Schebesta: that. We actually have a really innovative product, actually we're 81 00:03:49,010 --> 00:03:53,070 Fred Schebesta: working on around that as well and more to come from there. But 82 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,830 Fred Schebesta: yeah, you can compare where to go and purchase those 83 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:57,880 Fred Schebesta: products and services and you can read and get a 84 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:02,060 Fred Schebesta: lot of education around those topics on Finder. And then 85 00:04:02,150 --> 00:04:04,410 Fred Schebesta: we're just continuing to build more and more products around it. 86 00:04:04,810 --> 00:04:07,450 Sean Aylmer: Okay. But of course you still also do the insurance 87 00:04:07,450 --> 00:04:11,610 Sean Aylmer: products and travel products and internet, mobile, gas and electricity 88 00:04:11,610 --> 00:04:13,960 Sean Aylmer: plans, all those sorts of things. So you're very broad now. 89 00:04:14,470 --> 00:04:17,239 Fred Schebesta: Yeah. There's a thousand different comparisons on Finder. You can actually 90 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,049 Fred Schebesta: compare how to go to space. 91 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:19,729 Sean Aylmer: Oh, wow. 92 00:04:20,020 --> 00:04:23,289 Fred Schebesta: There are eight providers and just a hot tip. If 93 00:04:24,180 --> 00:04:27,830 Fred Schebesta: you go for the Russian one, it's actually free to 94 00:04:27,830 --> 00:04:29,710 Fred Schebesta: go, but they charge you to come back home. 95 00:04:31,740 --> 00:04:32,460 Sean Aylmer: Right. Is that how they do it? 96 00:04:33,270 --> 00:04:35,109 Fred Schebesta: It is possible to go to space like that. And 97 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:37,840 Fred Schebesta: I think Jeff Bezos is quite into it right now. 98 00:04:37,890 --> 00:04:39,510 Fred Schebesta: And I think he was actually one of the first 99 00:04:39,510 --> 00:04:42,320 Fred Schebesta: private spacemen and actually quite a long time ago, but 100 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:43,650 Fred Schebesta: not of recently. 101 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,220 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. I think I knew in the last couple of weeks he's 102 00:04:46,220 --> 00:04:47,210 Sean Aylmer: come out and said, he's going to be in one 103 00:04:47,210 --> 00:04:50,220 Sean Aylmer: of those first man flights to space. So he's putting 104 00:04:50,450 --> 00:04:52,820 Sean Aylmer: his body on the line or body where his money 105 00:04:52,820 --> 00:04:53,239 Sean Aylmer: is or something like that. 106 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:54,050 Fred Schebesta: Yeah. 107 00:04:54,050 --> 00:04:55,160 Sean Aylmer: That's pretty good with his brother and... 108 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,589 Fred Schebesta: And I love the actual hero is the pilot. He's 109 00:04:59,589 --> 00:05:00,470 Fred Schebesta: got quite a liability. 110 00:05:01,630 --> 00:05:03,630 Sean Aylmer: He does, doesn't he? More than most, if you've got 111 00:05:03,630 --> 00:05:05,919 Sean Aylmer: Jeff Bezos, it's about like having the USA president or 112 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:07,830 Sean Aylmer: something like that, you'd want to be a pretty good pilot 113 00:05:07,830 --> 00:05:08,680 Sean Aylmer: if you're flying him around. 114 00:05:08,980 --> 00:05:10,469 Fred Schebesta: Particularly the first space pilot. 115 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,820 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, I think so. So tell me, how does Finder 116 00:05:13,820 --> 00:05:14,470 Sean Aylmer: make money? 117 00:05:14,740 --> 00:05:17,690 Fred Schebesta: Well at its core, our customers come onto Finder and 118 00:05:17,690 --> 00:05:20,690 Fred Schebesta: they want to learn about or find products and services 119 00:05:20,690 --> 00:05:23,920 Fred Schebesta: that solve their problem. And from there, they click to 120 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,260 Fred Schebesta: the providers potentially that they're looking to work with and 121 00:05:27,330 --> 00:05:30,980 Fred Schebesta: we get a small referral fee from those providers. That's 122 00:05:30,980 --> 00:05:33,180 Fred Schebesta: one way. And then the other way is we provide a 123 00:05:33,180 --> 00:05:36,360 Fred Schebesta: whole series of apps where we actually provide the service 124 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,570 Fred Schebesta: to the customer. So in the Finder app, you can 125 00:05:38,570 --> 00:05:42,040 Fred Schebesta: actually buy and sell Bitcoin and Ethereum right now, it takes 126 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,760 Fred Schebesta: a about three minutes to buy, deposit and actually purchase, which 127 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,330 Fred Schebesta: is super fast. And that's obviously from our experience and 128 00:05:48,330 --> 00:05:50,760 Fred Schebesta: expertise in cryptocurrency. And we're going to build more and 129 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,890 Fred Schebesta: more products and services around that. But essentially, we basically 130 00:05:53,890 --> 00:05:56,089 Fred Schebesta: get paid a commission and it's in all different shapes 131 00:05:56,089 --> 00:05:57,560 Fred Schebesta: and forms and sizes around the world. 132 00:05:57,589 --> 00:06:00,810 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Now you started in Australia, but you've certainly pushed 133 00:06:00,870 --> 00:06:01,990 Sean Aylmer: internationally. Is that right? 134 00:06:02,330 --> 00:06:06,790 Fred Schebesta: Yes. Yeah, definitely. In 2016, we launched the US office 135 00:06:06,790 --> 00:06:09,940 Fred Schebesta: in Manhattan, actually in Chinatown where they sell fish on 136 00:06:09,940 --> 00:06:12,950 Fred Schebesta: the street. East Broadway was our first office. And we're 137 00:06:12,950 --> 00:06:16,250 Fred Schebesta: on 32nd street now. And we launched in January 2017 in 138 00:06:16,250 --> 00:06:19,320 Fred Schebesta: London. We've obviously moved in different offices over time. We're 139 00:06:19,330 --> 00:06:22,190 Fred Schebesta: now currently in London Bridge, just near Borough Market there 140 00:06:22,260 --> 00:06:24,700 Fred Schebesta: in between the Borough Market and The Shard. We have a big office 141 00:06:24,700 --> 00:06:27,270 Fred Schebesta: in the Poland, in (Warsaw) , an office in Manila, 142 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,020 Fred Schebesta: in McCarthy City, an office in Toronto. And I think 143 00:06:31,020 --> 00:06:33,730 Fred Schebesta: there's sort of an unclaimed but slightly evolving office in 144 00:06:33,740 --> 00:06:35,981 Fred Schebesta: Adelaide right now. So we'll see where that goes. 145 00:06:35,981 --> 00:06:39,760 Sean Aylmer: So is that where you will get your growth mostly will be 146 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,530 Sean Aylmer: overseas, do you think going forward? 147 00:06:41,930 --> 00:06:44,750 Fred Schebesta: I think the Australian business is growing well, definitely the 148 00:06:44,779 --> 00:06:47,650 Fred Schebesta: overseas businesses are growing well as well. They're both very 149 00:06:47,730 --> 00:06:50,790 Fred Schebesta: high growth businesses, so yeah. They'll both perform well. I 150 00:06:50,790 --> 00:06:56,299 Fred Schebesta: think the sheer target audience, the sheer TAM in overseas 151 00:06:56,300 --> 00:06:59,920 Fred Schebesta: markets and means, I think over the long term, we'll 152 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:01,340 Fred Schebesta: be where all the growth will come from. 153 00:07:01,550 --> 00:07:04,150 Sean Aylmer: TAM, being total addressable market, of course. 154 00:07:04,150 --> 00:07:04,861 Fred Schebesta: Oh yes. Yeah, sorry. 155 00:07:04,861 --> 00:07:09,190 Sean Aylmer: No, I mean, how do you work with Google? I know previously, you've had, 156 00:07:09,710 --> 00:07:11,410 Sean Aylmer: well a run in with Google it's about 10 years 157 00:07:11,410 --> 00:07:13,460 Sean Aylmer: ago. I think, which I think you've said before was 158 00:07:13,460 --> 00:07:15,130 Sean Aylmer: a bit of a turning point for your business. 159 00:07:15,310 --> 00:07:18,650 Fred Schebesta: Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those relationships where you got to 160 00:07:18,650 --> 00:07:21,820 Fred Schebesta: honor by Google and we've done that over many, many 161 00:07:21,820 --> 00:07:25,150 Fred Schebesta: years and we get different results and obviously Google results 162 00:07:25,150 --> 00:07:27,860 Fred Schebesta: change all the time. Yeah, and one time we pushed it 163 00:07:27,860 --> 00:07:31,040 Fred Schebesta: too far, actually a few times. And they penalized us, 164 00:07:31,210 --> 00:07:34,240 Fred Schebesta: which means we lost about 80% of our traffic overnight 165 00:07:34,380 --> 00:07:37,070 Fred Schebesta: and we lost it for about three months, which was not 166 00:07:37,340 --> 00:07:39,970 Fred Schebesta: pleasant at all. And then we recovered that. We paid 167 00:07:39,970 --> 00:07:42,640 Fred Schebesta: off our Google debt. You don't go to jail, there's 168 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,340 Fred Schebesta: nothing illegal. It's just one of those things where you 169 00:07:46,340 --> 00:07:49,300 Fred Schebesta: contravene their requirements. But over the long haul, I think 170 00:07:49,300 --> 00:07:51,660 Fred Schebesta: Google's a great partner of ours. And I'm very grateful 171 00:07:51,660 --> 00:07:54,270 Fred Schebesta: for what they've given us and we continue to serve 172 00:07:54,270 --> 00:07:56,970 Fred Schebesta: them. And I think we're a great contributor to their 173 00:07:56,970 --> 00:07:59,820 Fred Schebesta: search engine results. And what sort of is in them. 174 00:08:00,030 --> 00:08:02,730 Fred Schebesta: Obviously, they fill their search results with our rankings and 175 00:08:02,730 --> 00:08:05,530 Fred Schebesta: we deliver for their customers, the intents in which they 176 00:08:05,530 --> 00:08:06,020 Fred Schebesta: serve up. 177 00:08:06,430 --> 00:08:08,390 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Stay with me, Fred. We'll be back in a 178 00:08:08,390 --> 00:08:16,680 Sean Aylmer: minute. My guest this morning is Fred Schebesta entrepreneur and co- 179 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,340 Sean Aylmer: founder of Finder. So what are the products that are 180 00:08:19,340 --> 00:08:22,740 Sean Aylmer: most popular on finder. com, what are people doing on 181 00:08:22,740 --> 00:08:23,680 Sean Aylmer: that site mostly? 182 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,330 Fred Schebesta: Well, it changes continuously, right? So when the pandemic first 183 00:08:27,330 --> 00:08:32,370 Fred Schebesta: broke out, as an example, face masks, toilet paper, and 184 00:08:32,370 --> 00:08:35,020 Fred Schebesta: hand sanitizer were the most popular things, which was wild. 185 00:08:35,250 --> 00:08:37,459 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, are people comparing toilet paper? 186 00:08:37,470 --> 00:08:40,900 Fred Schebesta: Oh, where to buy it, they are, yeah. Because no 187 00:08:40,900 --> 00:08:43,320 Fred Schebesta: one could get any of it. which is really bizarre. 188 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,490 Fred Schebesta: But anyway, that's neither here nor there. What's popular right 189 00:08:46,490 --> 00:08:49,890 Fred Schebesta: now, I think stocks are popular. Cryptocurrencies are popular. I 190 00:08:49,890 --> 00:08:51,929 Fred Schebesta: think it depends on which country, right? So mortgages are 191 00:08:51,929 --> 00:08:54,809 Fred Schebesta: popular, I'd say around the world, particularly in the US 192 00:08:54,809 --> 00:08:58,339 Fred Schebesta: and Australia, stock trading accounts, because people are taking investing 193 00:08:58,340 --> 00:09:00,189 Fred Schebesta: into their own hands these days and moving money away 194 00:09:00,190 --> 00:09:03,579 Fred Schebesta: from fund managers. And actually there's a lot of research 195 00:09:03,580 --> 00:09:07,360 Fred Schebesta: around that and this is not my research, but ETS performing 196 00:09:07,460 --> 00:09:10,270 Fred Schebesta: as good, if not better than active fund managers, in 197 00:09:10,300 --> 00:09:12,840 Fred Schebesta: the majority sense. But there are obviously great fund managers as 198 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:17,569 Fred Schebesta: well that outperform ETFs and the market. So a lot of people are transitioning to 199 00:09:17,570 --> 00:09:22,250 Fred Schebesta: their own investing. Broadband has been really popular because people 200 00:09:22,250 --> 00:09:24,480 Fred Schebesta: are really angry with their broadband right now in Australia, 201 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,290 Fred Schebesta: particularly, because they're working from home. I think digital banking 202 00:09:28,290 --> 00:09:30,070 Fred Schebesta: accounts in the UK are very popular with all the 203 00:09:30,070 --> 00:09:32,760 Fred Schebesta: new neobanks coming up. There was a big phase just 204 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:34,990 Fred Schebesta: before, about online mattresses in the US, we call them 205 00:09:34,990 --> 00:09:38,830 Fred Schebesta: mattress war. Which was kind of wild and weird, but it sort of played 206 00:09:38,830 --> 00:09:42,809 Fred Schebesta: out eventually. I think health insurance is quite popular right 207 00:09:42,809 --> 00:09:46,170 Fred Schebesta: now in the US. Obviously, they've still got a very big pandemic 208 00:09:46,170 --> 00:09:49,179 Fred Schebesta: going on and there's still people are concerned about their health and 209 00:09:49,300 --> 00:09:51,070 Fred Schebesta: I think they will be for quite some period of time. 210 00:09:51,540 --> 00:09:55,210 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So tell me about Finder ventures. It's the innovation 211 00:09:55,250 --> 00:09:59,960 Sean Aylmer: of finder.com and it's about building new businesses and investing 212 00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:02,170 Sean Aylmer: in. Tell all the listeners a little bit about that. 213 00:10:02,890 --> 00:10:06,070 Fred Schebesta: Yeah. So that's really the business that innovated the Finder 214 00:10:06,070 --> 00:10:08,970 Fred Schebesta: app. It's our newest innovation and I think it just 215 00:10:09,260 --> 00:10:11,540 Fred Schebesta: helps people save money and make money, which is really 216 00:10:11,540 --> 00:10:16,490 Fred Schebesta: cool. It's really the innovation. Let's talk about innovation for 217 00:10:16,490 --> 00:10:18,220 Fred Schebesta: a second, right? So there are two forms of innovation, 218 00:10:18,220 --> 00:10:21,840 Fred Schebesta: I believe. One is incremental innovation where each year you 219 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,630 Fred Schebesta: slightly improve the product you're doing. And we do a 220 00:10:23,630 --> 00:10:26,809 Fred Schebesta: lot of innovation, in that sense. On the second hand, 221 00:10:26,809 --> 00:10:29,120 Fred Schebesta: there is what I call is a little bit of a 222 00:10:29,150 --> 00:10:32,660 Fred Schebesta: more challenging innovation is where you take giant leaps forward, where 223 00:10:32,660 --> 00:10:35,240 Fred Schebesta: you create brand new products. And I think Amazon really 224 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,439 Fred Schebesta: is a factory of this. Sony's a great company. I 225 00:10:38,660 --> 00:10:41,990 Fred Schebesta: admire Sony so much with their innovation. There are a lot of car 226 00:10:41,990 --> 00:10:44,750 Fred Schebesta: manufacturers right now innovating as well. There are a series 227 00:10:44,750 --> 00:10:47,179 Fred Schebesta: of companies that are great at taking giant leaps forward 228 00:10:47,179 --> 00:10:50,880 Fred Schebesta: into the unknown, into the ambiguous, into the area where 229 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,240 Fred Schebesta: it is not clear. Whether you cannot make a plan, 230 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:57,010 Fred Schebesta: you could only make experiments and many companies struggle with 231 00:10:57,010 --> 00:11:00,550 Fred Schebesta: this. And a lot of companies do really well and Finder as 232 00:11:00,550 --> 00:11:03,170 Fred Schebesta: an organization, we really drive our innovation out of Finder 233 00:11:03,170 --> 00:11:06,220 Fred Schebesta: Ventures in those giant leaps forward. And you can see 234 00:11:06,220 --> 00:11:07,510 Fred Schebesta: that from the products that we're making. 235 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,240 Sean Aylmer: Okay. I want to head towards open banking. And the idea of 236 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,050 Sean Aylmer: open banking really is that data or the information about 237 00:11:15,050 --> 00:11:19,020 Sean Aylmer: people can be transferred between different financial institutions much easier. 238 00:11:19,020 --> 00:11:21,370 Sean Aylmer: That's an impractical sense. That's kind of, if I want 239 00:11:21,370 --> 00:11:24,150 Sean Aylmer: to change my home loan, it's actually much easier under 240 00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:27,360 Sean Aylmer: open banking and hopefully there's more competition. What sort of 241 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,780 Sean Aylmer: opportunities given that your background, you began certainly in financial 242 00:11:30,780 --> 00:11:33,559 Sean Aylmer: services, will that whole open banking regime make a difference, 243 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:33,990 Sean Aylmer: do you think? 244 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,929 Fred Schebesta: Definitely. I think open banking is the gateway and key 245 00:11:38,929 --> 00:11:44,070 Fred Schebesta: to customers being empowered to actually make incredibly better decisions 246 00:11:44,130 --> 00:11:47,199 Fred Schebesta: about their life and their financial circumstances. And I think 247 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,250 Fred Schebesta: what's interesting, is let's zoom out for a second, financial 248 00:11:50,250 --> 00:11:53,500 Fred Schebesta: institutions have had open banking for 100 years. They already 249 00:11:53,500 --> 00:11:57,179 Fred Schebesta: see all the transactions and data. So what we've got 250 00:11:57,179 --> 00:12:01,240 Fred Schebesta: now, what's the difference? Well now you've got third parties 251 00:12:01,450 --> 00:12:04,590 Fred Schebesta: who do not have vested interest in one particular brand 252 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,280 Fred Schebesta: with the ability to actually serve first and foremost the 253 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,920 Fred Schebesta: customer and give them the best deal and best advice on a 254 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,050 Fred Schebesta: particular way forward. And that's the revolution. That's the big 255 00:12:15,050 --> 00:12:19,640 Fred Schebesta: change. Previously, open banking to me is and data has 256 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,010 Fred Schebesta: already been available to... The first Fintechs I think in the 257 00:12:23,010 --> 00:12:26,220 Fred Schebesta: world were the big banks. They were the first Fintechs because they 258 00:12:26,220 --> 00:12:29,710 Fred Schebesta: took us from paper and pencil and those little books, 259 00:12:29,710 --> 00:12:33,660 Fred Schebesta: those paper books, to apps on our phone, digital share 260 00:12:33,660 --> 00:12:37,820 Fred Schebesta: trading, all those kind of things and that's incredible. And now what 261 00:12:37,850 --> 00:12:40,990 Fred Schebesta: you've got is a moment in time when... So if 262 00:12:40,990 --> 00:12:43,390 Fred Schebesta: you look at the financial advice whole sector is being 263 00:12:43,390 --> 00:12:46,980 Fred Schebesta: melted right now in Australia with just an exodus of 264 00:12:46,980 --> 00:12:50,309 Fred Schebesta: people leaving. And that's because of a major royal commission 265 00:12:50,309 --> 00:12:53,400 Fred Schebesta: into advice. And what you've got is Fintechs filling that 266 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,130 Fred Schebesta: void where say, if you are under a half a million dollars 267 00:12:57,230 --> 00:13:00,070 Fred Schebesta: in assets, you are not a worthwhile customer to a 268 00:13:00,070 --> 00:13:03,280 Fred Schebesta: financial advisor. And so there's this huge void of financial 269 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,030 Fred Schebesta: advice. And what I think is now possible, which is 270 00:13:07,179 --> 00:13:11,839 Fred Schebesta: non vested interest, third parties able to take your data, 271 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,949 Fred Schebesta: crunch that data and actually give you the insights from 272 00:13:14,950 --> 00:13:20,360 Fred Schebesta: your transaction data based on algorithms and classic means of 273 00:13:20,620 --> 00:13:24,670 Fred Schebesta: machine learning. And give you a really, really, really, really 274 00:13:24,670 --> 00:13:28,240 Fred Schebesta: good set of decisions and outcomes in your personal financial 275 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,250 Fred Schebesta: life. And what's challenging for me is that to me 276 00:13:31,250 --> 00:13:34,520 Fred Schebesta: was very possible and has always been possible and still 277 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,280 Fred Schebesta: continues to be possible with the existing organizations that are 278 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,410 Fred Schebesta: out there that have this data. It's just that they 279 00:13:40,410 --> 00:13:43,110 Fred Schebesta: don't have a vested interest in switching you and showing 280 00:13:43,110 --> 00:13:44,819 Fred Schebesta: you what the actual best approach is. 281 00:13:45,100 --> 00:13:48,449 Sean Aylmer: And Finder can play a role in that in terms 282 00:13:48,450 --> 00:13:51,080 Sean Aylmer: of helping people make those better decisions and especially the 283 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,079 Sean Aylmer: people with the assets of under half a million dollars. 284 00:13:54,490 --> 00:13:58,140 Fred Schebesta: Yeah. We've been comparing, helping people save money for over 285 00:13:58,140 --> 00:14:00,439 Fred Schebesta: 11 years now. And I think we can fill that 286 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,250 Fred Schebesta: void. We can provide the tools that people need in 287 00:14:04,250 --> 00:14:07,809 Fred Schebesta: order to access their data and then apply learnings and 288 00:14:07,809 --> 00:14:11,729 Fred Schebesta: apply insights to that data, to get themselves into a 289 00:14:11,730 --> 00:14:14,620 Fred Schebesta: better financial situation. And normally, we'd want to do that 290 00:14:14,620 --> 00:14:16,630 Fred Schebesta: through saving people money, but we actually want to help 291 00:14:16,750 --> 00:14:18,880 Fred Schebesta: people make money through their investments as well. 292 00:14:19,250 --> 00:14:22,210 Sean Aylmer: Fred you're releasing a book, Go Live: 10 Principles to 293 00:14:22,210 --> 00:14:25,270 Sean Aylmer: Launch a Global Empire. When's that come out and what 294 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,490 Sean Aylmer: are the principles? Can you give us a taste of principles? 295 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,180 Fred Schebesta: Yeah. So I say this, it's one of the third 296 00:14:30,180 --> 00:14:32,990 Fred Schebesta: values of Finder called Go Live. It's really about inspiring 297 00:14:32,990 --> 00:14:35,940 Fred Schebesta: people to launch and get things done in their life. 298 00:14:35,980 --> 00:14:38,760 Fred Schebesta: And I feel that's something I'm quite good at. And 299 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,450 Fred Schebesta: this is really... It's not a step by step guide. 300 00:14:42,660 --> 00:14:45,940 Fred Schebesta: It's not a series of rules because I'm actually a 301 00:14:45,940 --> 00:14:49,190 Fred Schebesta: bit of a rule breaker myself. It's really the eternal 302 00:14:49,190 --> 00:14:51,479 Fred Schebesta: principles that I think about in news in order to 303 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,660 Fred Schebesta: drive the outcomes of putting things and launching things. And 304 00:14:55,660 --> 00:14:58,980 Fred Schebesta: I think it's largely about the stories that I've experienced 305 00:14:58,980 --> 00:15:01,790 Fred Schebesta: throughout and lessons I've learned. And it's really telling the 306 00:15:01,790 --> 00:15:03,960 Fred Schebesta: hard times and good times that I've put down into 307 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,550 Fred Schebesta: some paper for the first time. There's 10 of them 308 00:15:06,550 --> 00:15:09,210 Fred Schebesta: in there. Obviously, there are more principles I have as well, 309 00:15:09,210 --> 00:15:11,510 Fred Schebesta: but there are the 10 real principles is that'll help you 310 00:15:11,510 --> 00:15:14,970 Fred Schebesta: go live and launch something, particularly a tech business or 311 00:15:14,970 --> 00:15:17,890 Fred Schebesta: a new startup or even a business inside a bigger 312 00:15:17,890 --> 00:15:21,440 Fred Schebesta: business. It's really that drive and that innovation and that mindset 313 00:15:21,580 --> 00:15:23,300 Fred Schebesta: that you need in order to make it happen. 314 00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:26,090 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So that's Go Live: 10 Principles to Launch a 315 00:15:26,090 --> 00:15:27,760 Sean Aylmer: Global Empire. When will we see it? 316 00:15:28,060 --> 00:15:30,620 Fred Schebesta: So you can, pre- order it right now on Booktopia 317 00:15:30,690 --> 00:15:33,510 Fred Schebesta: today and Amazon and it's coming out at the end 318 00:15:33,510 --> 00:15:35,190 Fred Schebesta: of July. So you'll get your copies then. 319 00:15:35,550 --> 00:15:37,640 Sean Aylmer: Fantastic. Fred, thanks for talking to Fear and Greed. 320 00:15:37,930 --> 00:15:38,440 Fred Schebesta: Thanks so much. 321 00:15:38,810 --> 00:15:42,110 Sean Aylmer: That was Fred Schebesta, entrepreneur and co- founder of Finder. 322 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,360 Sean Aylmer: This is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Join me 323 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,880 Sean Aylmer: every morning for the full Fear and Greed Podcast with 324 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,470 Sean Aylmer: all the business news, you need to know I'm Sean 325 00:15:49,490 --> 00:15:50,590 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer, enjoy your day.