1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,480 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:11,520 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Australian pet owners spend almost $ 22 billion on their 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:16,260 Sean Aylmer: animals every year, according to research from Afterpay. Clearly, pets 4 00:00:16,260 --> 00:00:18,870 Sean Aylmer: are now big business in this country. So it makes 5 00:00:18,870 --> 00:00:20,970 Sean Aylmer: sense that a new breed of companies would start to 6 00:00:20,970 --> 00:00:25,410 Sean Aylmer: cater to the changing demands of customers, customers who treat 7 00:00:25,410 --> 00:00:28,020 Sean Aylmer: their pets just like a member of the family. One 8 00:00:28,020 --> 00:00:30,960 Sean Aylmer: of those is a tech company called ilume, which produces 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,870 Sean Aylmer: gourmet meals for dogs. ilume is a supporter of this 10 00:00:33,870 --> 00:00:37,800 Sean Aylmer: podcast and the brainchild of CEO, Craig Silbery and co- 11 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,060 Sean Aylmer: founder Ron Ferdinands. Craig previously founded and then sold Life- 12 00:00:42,090 --> 00:00:45,000 Sean Aylmer: Space Probiotics in a deal worth hundreds of millions of 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,050 Sean Aylmer: dollars. He's now turned his attention to canines. Craig Silbery, 14 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:50,130 Sean Aylmer: welcome to Fear and Greed. 15 00:00:50,790 --> 00:00:51,900 Craig Silbery: Thank you, Sean. Thanks for having me. 16 00:00:52,830 --> 00:00:53,370 Sean Aylmer: Are you a dog lover? 17 00:00:54,750 --> 00:00:57,180 Craig Silbery: Yes, I've always loved dogs. They've always been a big 18 00:00:57,180 --> 00:00:57,780 Craig Silbery: part of my life. 19 00:00:58,290 --> 00:00:59,490 Sean Aylmer: Right. Do you have a dog? 20 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:00,750 Craig Silbery: I have three dogs. 21 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:01,830 Sean Aylmer: Ah, what are they? 22 00:01:02,430 --> 00:01:05,339 Craig Silbery: I've got two English Toy Terriers. One's a puppy. One's two- years- 23 00:01:05,340 --> 00:01:07,950 Craig Silbery: old. And I have an Italian Greyhound called Murray. 24 00:01:08,550 --> 00:01:10,410 Sean Aylmer: Wow. From one end of the spectrum to the other. 25 00:01:10,860 --> 00:01:11,730 Craig Silbery: Yeah, kind of. 26 00:01:12,690 --> 00:01:14,670 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Good on you. Look, I mentioned the research from 27 00:01:14,670 --> 00:01:18,180 Sean Aylmer: Afterpay suggesting we're spending $ 22 billion a year on pets 28 00:01:18,180 --> 00:01:20,970 Sean Aylmer: now, depending on the source. That figure could even be 29 00:01:20,970 --> 00:01:24,630 Sean Aylmer: higher. When did pets, I mean, pets have always been 30 00:01:24,630 --> 00:01:28,680 Sean Aylmer: a big part of people's lives, but when did we 31 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:30,990 Sean Aylmer: start spending so much money on them? 32 00:01:31,290 --> 00:01:34,110 Craig Silbery: I can't tell you exactly when we've started spending money 33 00:01:34,110 --> 00:01:36,240 Craig Silbery: on them. I know it's been for at least two 34 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,600 Craig Silbery: decades spending a lot of money on our pets. But 35 00:01:39,810 --> 00:01:42,990 Craig Silbery: certainly in recent times, our attitudes to dogs, not just 36 00:01:43,230 --> 00:01:45,750 Craig Silbery: what we're spending but how we see them has certainly 37 00:01:45,750 --> 00:01:48,450 Craig Silbery: changed. And research shows that over the last 10 years 38 00:01:48,450 --> 00:01:49,620 Craig Silbery: that's changed dramatically. 39 00:01:50,190 --> 00:01:53,100 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Why is that? I mean, certainly I know people 40 00:01:53,460 --> 00:01:56,669 Sean Aylmer: who see, so one of the co- founders of Fear 41 00:01:56,670 --> 00:01:59,520 Sean Aylmer: and Greed, Adam Lang, he has a dog called Maggie, 42 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,530 Sean Aylmer: which has just come into his family and it is 43 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,100 Sean Aylmer: totally part of the family. And I also know others 44 00:02:05,100 --> 00:02:06,930 Sean Aylmer: who kind of don't consider them, I mean, I come 45 00:02:06,930 --> 00:02:09,810 Sean Aylmer: from a country background. So sort of working dogs is 46 00:02:09,810 --> 00:02:13,560 Sean Aylmer: how we thought of them. But I'm just interested why 47 00:02:13,650 --> 00:02:17,310 Sean Aylmer: people like Adam and others, really, that shift somehow. 48 00:02:17,550 --> 00:02:20,820 Craig Silbery: Yeah, sure. I think there are dog lovers and there 49 00:02:20,820 --> 00:02:23,370 Craig Silbery: are people that like animals. But if you look back 50 00:02:23,370 --> 00:02:27,060 Craig Silbery: in time, the relationship back in the eighties and nineties, 51 00:02:27,060 --> 00:02:31,470 Craig Silbery: and certainly we saw dogs as more functional assets. They 52 00:02:31,470 --> 00:02:35,940 Craig Silbery: were security. They were part of a family. They had 53 00:02:35,940 --> 00:02:39,510 Craig Silbery: functional needs from us. And over the last, I think 54 00:02:39,510 --> 00:02:41,820 Craig Silbery: there was certainly a population of us that always had 55 00:02:41,820 --> 00:02:44,970 Craig Silbery: an emotional connection with our dogs. We always saw them 56 00:02:44,970 --> 00:02:47,940 Craig Silbery: as sentient beings and we always had a special place 57 00:02:47,940 --> 00:02:50,700 Craig Silbery: in our hearts. And I feel that that population or 58 00:02:50,700 --> 00:02:53,790 Craig Silbery: that percentage of the community has just grown and grown 59 00:02:53,790 --> 00:02:56,280 Craig Silbery: and grown over the years. And I look at it 60 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,210 Craig Silbery: completely common sense. They are beautiful creatures that love us 61 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,770 Craig Silbery: unconditionally and they could bring us so much warmth in 62 00:03:04,770 --> 00:03:08,190 Craig Silbery: our life. So I have no surprise why many of 63 00:03:08,190 --> 00:03:11,130 Craig Silbery: us see our dogs as part of the family and as sentient 64 00:03:11,130 --> 00:03:16,140 Craig Silbery: beings, but it's certainly something that's increased dramatically over the last decade. 65 00:03:16,740 --> 00:03:19,139 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And this is something that ilume has taken advantage of 66 00:03:19,139 --> 00:03:23,220 Sean Aylmer: because ilume's actually a tech company operating in this space, 67 00:03:23,220 --> 00:03:26,669 Sean Aylmer: which does seem a little unusual. How does it all work? 68 00:03:27,030 --> 00:03:28,799 Craig Silbery: Well, I guess how it works is where it started 69 00:03:28,889 --> 00:03:32,010 Craig Silbery: was I sold a business and I was thinking, what 70 00:03:32,010 --> 00:03:34,739 Craig Silbery: do I do next? So I put my time into 71 00:03:34,860 --> 00:03:38,730 Craig Silbery: understanding whether there was something I could contribute to improve 72 00:03:38,730 --> 00:03:42,600 Craig Silbery: the lives of dogs. And that journey took me around 73 00:03:42,780 --> 00:03:46,950 Craig Silbery: Australasia, talking with experts, animal nutritionists. And essentially, I got 74 00:03:46,950 --> 00:03:49,740 Craig Silbery: to the point that our dogs don't live as long 75 00:03:49,740 --> 00:03:52,890 Craig Silbery: as they should. And I had a dog who'd left 76 00:03:52,890 --> 00:03:55,290 Craig Silbery: me not long before I sold my business. And I 77 00:03:55,290 --> 00:03:58,590 Craig Silbery: would've done anything for him to spend more time on 78 00:03:58,590 --> 00:04:01,980 Craig Silbery: this planet with me. So that comes down to two 79 00:04:01,980 --> 00:04:04,950 Craig Silbery: things, essentially. We are feeding our dogs ultra processed food 80 00:04:05,190 --> 00:04:10,620 Craig Silbery: every meal, attuned to feeding your kids fast food breakfast, 81 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,220 Craig Silbery: lunch, and dinner every day. And that caused a lot 82 00:04:14,220 --> 00:04:16,920 Craig Silbery: of damage on the insides of dogs or it's certainly 83 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,979 Craig Silbery: a damage for many types of dogs. It caused a 84 00:04:19,980 --> 00:04:22,560 Craig Silbery: lot of damage on the insides. And second to that, 85 00:04:22,830 --> 00:04:25,200 Craig Silbery: about half of dogs, by the time they hit adult 86 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,880 Craig Silbery: who are obese or overweight. And that's the leading cause 87 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:34,680 Craig Silbery: of early preventable death in dogs in Australia. So those 88 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,230 Craig Silbery: were the two problems I was tackling. And those solutions 89 00:04:37,230 --> 00:04:42,330 Craig Silbery: are food- based, fresh food, fresh, healthy food, not too 90 00:04:42,330 --> 00:04:45,779 Craig Silbery: dissimilar to what we eat as humans. And the second 91 00:04:45,779 --> 00:04:49,320 Craig Silbery: part is activity tracking. So feeding based on the amount 92 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,650 Craig Silbery: of calories your dog needs, not based on how many 93 00:04:52,650 --> 00:04:55,289 Craig Silbery: kilos or how heavy your dog is. So that's where 94 00:04:55,290 --> 00:04:56,010 Craig Silbery: the tech comes in. 95 00:04:56,700 --> 00:05:00,540 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So on that aspect, so if you go onto the ilume, I- L- U- M- 96 00:05:00,540 --> 00:05:04,260 Sean Aylmer: E website, and you have a bunch of meals for breakfast 97 00:05:04,260 --> 00:05:08,040 Sean Aylmer: and dinner meals, the technology, the tracking, so if you 98 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:13,170 Sean Aylmer: have a particularly active dog and presumably, depending on the 99 00:05:13,170 --> 00:05:16,529 Sean Aylmer: breed, like a Collie versus a Dachshund or whatever, so 100 00:05:16,529 --> 00:05:18,780 Sean Aylmer: you actually tracking the energy and- 101 00:05:18,781 --> 00:05:21,510 Craig Silbery: Yeah, so it's actually more than that. So you can get 102 00:05:21,510 --> 00:05:25,140 Craig Silbery: two dogs from the same litter. So the same breed, same 103 00:05:25,140 --> 00:05:29,190 Craig Silbery: age, born almost same time, fed the same food in 104 00:05:29,190 --> 00:05:32,940 Craig Silbery: the same environment. Their caloric needs can differ up to 105 00:05:33,990 --> 00:05:37,349 Craig Silbery: 30% from one another. So one dog is happy to 106 00:05:37,350 --> 00:05:40,529 Craig Silbery: sit still and watch the world go by. And another 107 00:05:40,529 --> 00:05:44,669 Craig Silbery: dog might chase the butterflies all day long. And that's 108 00:05:44,670 --> 00:05:47,339 Craig Silbery: the difference. So you can't treat one dog, one dog, 109 00:05:47,339 --> 00:05:50,760 Craig Silbery: one breed like another. You really have to understand that 110 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,990 Craig Silbery: activity levels of that dog and feed appropriately. And dogs' 111 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,600 Craig Silbery: lives can change one day to another as well. You 112 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,760 Craig Silbery: could take a dog on a Saturday for a three- 113 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,120 Craig Silbery: hour run, and yet to give them the ideal amount 114 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,789 Craig Silbery: of energy and calories, they should be fed differently on 115 00:06:05,790 --> 00:06:09,720 Craig Silbery: that day. So technology can build up predictive models of 116 00:06:10,170 --> 00:06:12,539 Craig Silbery: how much to feed dogs on certain days. And it 117 00:06:12,540 --> 00:06:16,049 Craig Silbery: can also track it over time so that if your 118 00:06:16,050 --> 00:06:19,920 Craig Silbery: dog is getting less and less active over months or 119 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,159 Craig Silbery: years, the technology can highlight that to you to make 120 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:23,940 Craig Silbery: the adjustments. 121 00:06:24,540 --> 00:06:27,930 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And this is like Marley Spoon or HelloFresh. So 122 00:06:28,410 --> 00:06:32,130 Sean Aylmer: you go online, you order your meals, and they come, 123 00:06:32,130 --> 00:06:36,419 Sean Aylmer: they're fresh meals. The technology, presumably there's an app or 124 00:06:36,420 --> 00:06:39,720 Sean Aylmer: something, is there, that you track the dog's activity so 125 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:40,620 Sean Aylmer: you know what to give it? 126 00:06:40,890 --> 00:06:43,770 Craig Silbery: Correct. There's activity trackers like your Fitbit around the collar. 127 00:06:43,950 --> 00:06:47,099 Craig Silbery: It's a small device that lasts about a month before 128 00:06:47,100 --> 00:06:49,710 Craig Silbery: it needs recharging. And we also have a bowl which 129 00:06:49,710 --> 00:06:52,770 Craig Silbery: the activity tracker also talks to. So the bowl just 130 00:06:52,770 --> 00:06:54,929 Craig Silbery: essentially weighs the food for you, tells you when to 131 00:06:55,140 --> 00:06:56,609 Craig Silbery: start putting food in and it tells you when to 132 00:06:56,610 --> 00:07:00,180 Craig Silbery: stop. So it takes the emotion and the guilt out 133 00:07:00,180 --> 00:07:02,190 Craig Silbery: that when we are feeding our dogs, we think, " Oh, maybe 134 00:07:02,190 --> 00:07:04,409 Craig Silbery: just a little bit more." And the bowl will stop 135 00:07:04,410 --> 00:07:07,260 Craig Silbery: you and say that's enough. And if you put too 136 00:07:07,260 --> 00:07:10,440 Craig Silbery: much in, it'll ask you to, or will highlight anyway, 137 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,650 Craig Silbery: that you've put more than your dog requires for that day. 138 00:07:14,220 --> 00:07:17,640 Sean Aylmer: I'm not sure my American Cocker Spaniel, Flo, is going 139 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,002 Sean Aylmer: to like you, Craig, (inaudible) . 140 00:07:20,370 --> 00:07:23,002 Craig Silbery: You should see the food, though. We're talking about, (inaudible) . 141 00:07:23,002 --> 00:07:23,002 Sean Aylmer: It is gourmet. 142 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,540 Craig Silbery: Yeah, it is gourmet. So there's no offal in there, 143 00:07:27,810 --> 00:07:30,600 Craig Silbery: there are no off- cuts. There's no kneecaps, there's no 144 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,720 Craig Silbery: eyeballs. It's pure cuts of meat that we would find 145 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,320 Craig Silbery: at the butcher. It's fresh, seasonal, local vegetables, there's egg. 146 00:07:37,770 --> 00:07:44,340 Craig Silbery: We make broths onsite. So they're handmade broths, bone broths, low simmered bone broths that provide 147 00:07:44,340 --> 00:07:49,170 Craig Silbery: dogs loads of not just taste sensation overload, but also 148 00:07:49,170 --> 00:07:51,270 Craig Silbery: a lot of collagen, which keeps them nice and healthy 149 00:07:51,270 --> 00:07:54,570 Craig Silbery: on the inside. So dogs love the food and yes, 150 00:07:54,570 --> 00:07:57,750 Craig Silbery: it looks gourmet and yes, it looks very different to 151 00:07:57,750 --> 00:08:01,110 Craig Silbery: what you would've fed your dog before, but it's not 152 00:08:01,110 --> 00:08:05,460 Craig Silbery: expensive by any means. It looks gourmet. It's seriously not 153 00:08:05,460 --> 00:08:09,690 Craig Silbery: expensive if we consider it's maybe cost of a latte 154 00:08:09,690 --> 00:08:12,420 Craig Silbery: or two lattes a day. So yeah, your dogs will 155 00:08:12,420 --> 00:08:12,989 Craig Silbery: love you for it. 156 00:08:13,590 --> 00:08:15,600 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Craig. We'll be back in a minute. 157 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,140 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Craig Silbery, CEO and co- 158 00:08:25,140 --> 00:08:29,070 Sean Aylmer: founder of Ilume. What I always find interesting, growing up, 159 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,280 Sean Aylmer: you never fed chocolate to dogs. Vets always say just 160 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,679 Sean Aylmer: give it dry. That's enough. I don't even know what 161 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,260 Sean Aylmer: to give the dog, to be perfectly honest. And you 162 00:08:37,260 --> 00:08:39,300 Sean Aylmer: only want to give it good stuff. But I totally 163 00:08:39,300 --> 00:08:41,429 Sean Aylmer: get the processed thing. This is solving for that in 164 00:08:41,429 --> 00:08:41,730 Sean Aylmer: a way. 165 00:08:42,030 --> 00:08:44,010 Craig Silbery: It does. And look, we do, in the breakfast meal, 166 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,089 Craig Silbery: there are 27 vitamins and minerals as well, which meet 167 00:08:48,090 --> 00:08:52,800 Craig Silbery: all the international regulations around guidelines for feeding dogs. So 168 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:56,640 Craig Silbery: it's perfectly balanced and provides all the nutrition the dog 169 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,790 Craig Silbery: needs to stay healthy. It's been formulated with, we worked 170 00:08:59,790 --> 00:09:02,820 Craig Silbery: with Massey University in New Zealand, which is a kind 171 00:09:02,820 --> 00:09:07,590 Craig Silbery: of world- renowned facility for animal science. And so yeah, 172 00:09:07,590 --> 00:09:12,210 Craig Silbery: the food are scientifically designed and developed and yet they 173 00:09:12,510 --> 00:09:16,679 Craig Silbery: taste amazing for dogs and are healthy. So yeah, hopefully 174 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:16,771 Craig Silbery: you'll try it. 175 00:09:16,771 --> 00:09:20,250 Sean Aylmer: So you've invested quite a bit of your own money 176 00:09:20,309 --> 00:09:23,850 Sean Aylmer: into Ilume. You must be fairly confident about the product 177 00:09:23,850 --> 00:09:25,350 Sean Aylmer: or is it a labor of love? 178 00:09:26,100 --> 00:09:29,369 Craig Silbery: Yeah, I think it's the second one there. Look, it 179 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,920 Craig Silbery: was a passion project that it's just the right thing 180 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:39,750 Craig Silbery: to do. We couldn't find globally anyone else doing this. 181 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,140 Craig Silbery: And this is an industry that's grown up on ingredients 182 00:09:43,140 --> 00:09:46,050 Craig Silbery: that cost 50 cents a kilo. There's not a lot 183 00:09:46,050 --> 00:09:49,380 Craig Silbery: of meat or good stuff when you're buying ingredients for 184 00:09:49,380 --> 00:09:52,950 Craig Silbery: 50 cents a kilo. So that's what the industry across 185 00:09:52,950 --> 00:09:56,040 Craig Silbery: the world supplies dogs at the moment. We're dealing with 186 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,120 Craig Silbery: ingredients that cost maybe $ 15 a kilo. Steaks of topside 187 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:05,190 Craig Silbery: beef and chicken breast. And so it's very much a 188 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:09,689 Craig Silbery: passion project that's required us to build our own commercial 189 00:10:09,690 --> 00:10:14,130 Craig Silbery: kitchen, employing there's about 35 of us in the team 190 00:10:14,490 --> 00:10:15,360 Craig Silbery: to run this. 191 00:10:15,390 --> 00:10:17,010 Sean Aylmer: Do you have chefs? Is that right? I think I 192 00:10:17,010 --> 00:10:17,370 Sean Aylmer: saw that. 193 00:10:17,429 --> 00:10:21,660 Craig Silbery: We have chefs from reputable restaurants in Melbourne. We're working 194 00:10:21,660 --> 00:10:24,330 Craig Silbery: with some celebrity chefs. But we have the best quality 195 00:10:24,330 --> 00:10:29,100 Craig Silbery: managers. So really it's been no expense spared to set 196 00:10:29,370 --> 00:10:33,450 Craig Silbery: a new benchmark for food for dogs. And that comes 197 00:10:33,450 --> 00:10:37,260 Craig Silbery: with a cost, especially upfront, when you have no customers 198 00:10:37,260 --> 00:10:40,920 Craig Silbery: and you're building this amazing facility and putting a team 199 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,579 Craig Silbery: together. There's a tremendous cost in all of that. So 200 00:10:44,850 --> 00:10:48,300 Craig Silbery: yeah, passion project, but certainly a little bit nervous about 201 00:10:50,010 --> 00:10:52,830 Craig Silbery: how it'll be received and how long it will take to 202 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:54,090 Craig Silbery: gain momentum. 203 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,650 Sean Aylmer: So I mean, it is early days. Do you have any data 204 00:10:58,650 --> 00:11:02,820 Sean Aylmer: yet that quite apart from dogs and humans liking it, 205 00:11:03,090 --> 00:11:04,829 Sean Aylmer: whether or not there are health benefits yet, or is 206 00:11:04,830 --> 00:11:06,060 Sean Aylmer: it too early in the process? 207 00:11:06,390 --> 00:11:09,360 Craig Silbery: Well, actually we've been running clinical trials in New Zealand 208 00:11:09,510 --> 00:11:12,390 Craig Silbery: on our food and our ingredients in our food for 209 00:11:12,390 --> 00:11:16,260 Craig Silbery: almost two years now. And yeah, there's certainly health benefits. 210 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,740 Craig Silbery: So there's a lot of anti- inflammatory benefits of our foods. 211 00:11:19,770 --> 00:11:22,109 Craig Silbery: And with my previous business which was focused on the 212 00:11:22,110 --> 00:11:26,010 Craig Silbery: human microbiome, we know that anti- inflammatory diets and a 213 00:11:26,010 --> 00:11:31,650 Craig Silbery: healthy microbiome prevents a whole suite of chronic disease. So 214 00:11:31,650 --> 00:11:35,190 Craig Silbery: we are very confident in our food and pleased with 215 00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:38,880 Craig Silbery: that. We have a few hundred dogs on our food 216 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:44,160 Craig Silbery: at the moment and it's very common responses around immune, energy, 217 00:11:44,610 --> 00:11:47,010 Craig Silbery: softer coat, and those sort of benefits that we'd expect. 218 00:11:47,700 --> 00:11:49,980 Sean Aylmer: I'll try it out on Flo and let you know 219 00:11:49,980 --> 00:11:50,790 Sean Aylmer: how we go, Craig. 220 00:11:51,780 --> 00:11:53,100 Craig Silbery: Look forward to it. I'll keep an eye on it. 221 00:11:53,670 --> 00:11:55,080 Sean Aylmer: Thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 222 00:11:55,500 --> 00:11:56,670 Craig Silbery: You're welcome. Thank you, Sean. 223 00:11:57,150 --> 00:12:01,140 Sean Aylmer: That was Craig Silbery, CEO and co- founder of ilume, a 224 00:12:01,140 --> 00:12:03,599 Sean Aylmer: supporter of this podcast. This is the Fear and Greed 225 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,030 Sean Aylmer: daily interview. Join us every morning for the full episode 226 00:12:06,090 --> 00:12:09,270 Sean Aylmer: of Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm 227 00:12:09,270 --> 00:12:10,680 Sean Aylmer: Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.