WEBVTT - #1893 What Makes Someone A Survivor? - Bobby Cappuccio 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:04.160 Bobby Capuccio, my brother from another mother. Hi, buddy, welcome 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:05.480 back to the show. How are you doing? 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:08.479 Hey, what's going on? Craig, Welcome to the self hell 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:10.960 band to do it? You know, I always forget to 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:14.680 welcome you. You're so welcoming to me, but I never 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:16.639 respond and kind, I never welcome you. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.440 Yeah, And of course people don't know these these are 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.640 co shares, right. So you put up our chat every 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:26.520 week on the self help Pantidote. 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:29.400 Well, not every week, but yeah, I put it up 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:34.440 on the Self Help Bart periodically periodically, yeah, I mean regularly. 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:37.360 Yeah, yeah, Well, you and I would just have an 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:39.600 interesting chat off air, and we thought we might because 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:41.920 you and I do zero planning, which is probably evident 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.320 in the quality of the conversations and the overall you know, 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:47.599 finished product. But fuck it, let's roll on. We were 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:51.800 talking welcome, we were talking about we're nothing if not 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:56.800 not prepared. We're talking about how people seem to be 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:01.360 less kind than the old days. And I've said to you, 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:03.320 I don't know, maybe I grew up in a bubble. 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:06.720 I did grow up in the country mostly, and most 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:10.360 people were somewhere between pretty nice and really fucking nice 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:13.679 most of the time. And then I also said to 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:17.040 you me walking down the street because I walk a lot, 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.640 and but walking around even suburbia in Melbourne, I'm thinking 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:26.319 if I wasn't a relatively big, strong, mildly intimidating male, 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:29.640 I'd be fucking terrified sometimes. 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:32.800 Yeah. I nearly got stabbed on the tram. Yeah I 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:36.640 know that because the person I was talking to was that, like, 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:40.640 he said, I'm about to stab you. So I was like, oh, wow, okay, this. 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.520 Is that was when you were in Melbourne last year, right. 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.000 Yeah it was. I was like god, getting stepped and 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:48.840 it was like it was like a Saturday morning. I 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:50.720 was like, God, it's too early in the morning for 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.800 a stabbing. I haven't even had like a proper breaky yet. 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:59.240 So yeah, I was. I was writing on the tram, 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.400 which is usually the best way to take the tram, 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:05.320 and there's this guy. He's sitting there with no shirt 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:11.680 and it's it's September, like early September, and he's I 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:14.920 didn't notice it, but he had all these hospital tags. 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:17.160 He had just gotten out of hospital. He had just 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:19.519 been stabbed, which is gonna make a lot of sense 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:23.480 as the story goes on and it was this older 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:25.720 and when I say older, like she had to be 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:29.200 like in her eighties Asian lady. And she's sitting right 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:31.840 next to him, and he just starts talking to himself 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:35.600 and screaming to himself. And you know, no judgment, I 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.040 have turettes that could have been me, like you know, 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:42.119 at any other tram ride. So she kind of gets 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.120 a bit nervous. She gets up and she walks to 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:49.160 another seat. Well, he gets offended by this not a 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.320 very thick skin bloke for a guy who just got stabbed, 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.560 and he gets up and he walks over and he 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:57.640 sits down right next to me because she's sitting across 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:00.680 from me, and he's leaning across and he's like threatening 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:04.239 her and like yelling at her. And I'm just sitting 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.079 there watching this, going, what what are you gonna do? 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.480 You can you can hit her? She's an old lady. 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:15.880 So I had mentioned like the the age differential and 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:21.560 size and other factors involved and just ask them like, 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:23.680 you know, I just reconsider what you're doing. Well, he 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.760 didn't like that either, so he was he was he 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.080 was not very happy with the passengers on the tram. 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.760 But I don't think this individual. I don't think one 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:39.120 deeply disturbed individual is representative of society. I think you 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.560 said it the environment. He's like, Oh, I grew up 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.480 in a bubble. Well, I believe you know there there 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:48.960 are benefits and liabilities to every environment. I think we 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:54.440 are our collective societal identity is so fractured, and the 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:58.720 intersection of you and me, I mean, real meaningful connection. 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.400 I think that's decreased a bit, and it's taken a toll. 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.120 I think, not only on the psychology of the individual, 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:09.120 but just just society's gotten a little bit sick in 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:15.640 my mind, And yeah, I'm not I don't have credentials 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:20.200 to make that determination, but from my own observation, yeah, 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:24.440 when you start to become apathetic, there are a lot 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:29.360 of different reasons. One you truly just don't care. So yeah, 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.280 someone who does have a lot of first hand experience, 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:34.880 or did have a lot of first hand experience with 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:39.760 the extremes of humanity, sadly is the late great doctor 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.240 Victor Frankel. And part of the course work I'm doing, 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.120 I just finished reading Man Search for Meaning, and it 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:50.200 wasn't the first time, and he talked about how apathy 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:54.440 was a form of self protection where you've seen so 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:57.080 much stuff, You've seen so many beatings, you've seen so 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:00.880 much murder day to day. The only way to protect 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:05.719 yourself is to become completely apathetic to everything that's going 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:09.280 on around you. But I don't just see apathy. I 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:13.560 see extreme hostility. I think people are really struggling, and 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:15.920 they're struggling at an identity level, and I think there's 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:20.800 so much lack of predictability, and we've moved away from 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:26.320 things that are intrinsically predictable. And I think about it 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:28.640 like you're talking about living in a bubble. That could 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:30.080 be a good thing or a bad thing. Like if 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.320 you grow up in a small town and everybody in 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.839 that town is just lovely and they're just very open, 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:39.279 and there's a lot of vulnerability that'll shape you. But 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.039 I mean, you know, you can grow up in a 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.599 small town and it's like, I think that's extreme Texas 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.520 change saw massacre. But on the other hand, like if 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:52.040 you're growing up and you have no exposure to anybody else, Yeah, 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.760 and the messaging that you're getting about the world is 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.080 not very healthy, it's not very expansive. It doesn't cause 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:01.120 you to be very kind to anyone outside of a 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:05.320 mayarpic perspective of what a person should be. That's kind 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:08.880 of that's also problematic, especially when you identify with that 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:11.600 growing up in a big city. It could be very problematic. 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:12.960 It could be very beneficial. 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:17.039 Yeah, there are fours and against I was. Firstly, we 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:19.960 acknowledged before anyone sends an email that the man that 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:22.920 Bobby was talking to on the train clearly had mental 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:26.520 health issues. We recognize that, So you don't need to 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:30.640 tell us that we recognize that, but we can still 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.080 protect the old lady in the middle of that situation. 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:33.880 So well done. 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:34.039 You. 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.760 Second thing is so Victor Frankel, just for our listeners 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:41.520 who don't know, well, you tell everyone who he was, 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:45.440 and so Second World War, just to give context of 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:47.440 who this guy is who wrote this book that you 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:48.120 spoke about. 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.960 Yeah, I mean a lot of people probably have read 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:55.800 his work or heard the name. But Victor frankl was 0:06:56.000 --> 0:07:03.159 an Austrian psychiatrist, that psychologist, sorry, a neurologist, that was 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:09.320 taken captive and he spent nearly three years of his 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:14.720 life in four different concentration camps. He lost his newlywed 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:20.120 beloved wife, he lost his parents, and he did. What 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:24.960 he endured and what he experienced, and the conclusions that 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:29.240 he drew out of that experience is nothing short of remarkable. 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:32.000 I mean, a lot of us have opinions, but very 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:34.800 very few of us and this is not a critique like, 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:39.920 Thank Heavens, few of us have had to suffer through 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.520 and pay the price in advance for the formation of 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:48.640 those opinions. And then you know, he did obviously survive. 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:52.360 He wrote a small but powerful book, Man Search for Meaning, 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.240 and he is the founder of logo therapy. 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:58.080 I would I read that book. You and I probably 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.800 read it about the time stid our journey. I read 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:05.480 it in my I'm going to say twenties, maybe thirty ish, 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:11.080 and yeah, like a simple little book but quite profound. 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:15.920 It's you know, I think the what books do for me, 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:24.920 and especially biographies or biographically influenced memoirs or you know, 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:29.920 teaching guiding books, is they give me an opportunity to 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:34.160 look at something through somebody else's lens. And it like 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:36.440 what I love is when you get immersed in someone 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:41.520 else's story and someone else's experience and emotions. You know, 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:45.200 it's not the same as being them, but it gives 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:51.679 you a level of other awareness that is really hard 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.760 to get otherwise. And I love that. That's why I 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:58.079 love Yeah, I love biographies, especially ones that have kind 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:02.479 of you know, like sharing profound wisdom and insights and experiences, 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.720 be they painful or be they joyful. But yeah, that 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:09.720 was one of those first books that for me made me, 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.000 made me incredibly grateful for what I didn't have to 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.760 go through and what I haven't experienced, and where I 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:25.080 didn't live in the time of you know, of the 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:28.840 human timeline that I was born in. And yeah, it's 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:34.080 it's gratitude is a hard thing to keep a hold of, 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:35.640 but that certainly was good for me. 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:40.480 For me, it was you know, I can only respond 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:43.200 to the world based on my interpretation and my own 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:47.679 past experiences, and I can imaginedly project myself into other 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:53.160 people's laws, situations and worldview, but never really experience it. 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:57.080 And for me, books allow you to expand your mind 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:01.200 and go anywhere and to a degree of the world 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:06.280 vicariously through other people. And Victor Frankel went through something 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.480 like extraordinary in the most horrific sense of the word, 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:14.520 and the conclusions that he drew out of it. I mean, 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:16.880 we talk about purpose, We talk about meaning and how 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:20.319 important it is and how much of a well being initiative. 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.760 You know, purpose truly is to allow us to cope 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:27.000 and develop resilience, but not witness what this guy witnessed. 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.400 Like one out of every twenty eight people that went 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.200 into those camps survived, Like most people. He said, like 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:38.520 as soon as he got off the train, you know, 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.160 there was someone standing there. And it's really confusing because 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.320 you're getting dragged off this train, like there's dogs barking 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.600 and people screaming at you. And there was a guy 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.520 and who's so casual. This is what he noticed. He 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:55.560 was resting his elbow on his arm, and he was 0:10:55.640 --> 0:11:00.600 just almost like undiscernibly motioning with his index finger like 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.120 that way that way to the left or to the right, 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.640 and like ninety percent of the time I think it 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.160 was to the right he was motioning. And that was. 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:12.600 Immediate execution because people were too that they were too 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.760 weary from the trip for whatever reason, too old, too 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.720 young to be of any use in the work camps. 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:22.640 And ten percent of the time he just you know, 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.439 like flicked it the other way, and you went into 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:29.520 the work camp, and what happened that like that was 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:33.240 not a lucky break by any measure of the word. 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:39.120 And he he witnessed such extremes of humanity and it 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.800 was the people that and there's so much more to this, 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.520 but what he attributed to his survival on other people's 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:50.160 survival is the depth of the meaning of their situation, 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:55.080 like what does this mean? And what is my reason 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.280 to survive? What was interesting is he said, like as 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.400 a physician. Once they found out that he was a 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.680 physician in the camp, anyone who was like really sick 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:08.080 will go ten to those people and he would have 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:15.079 conversations and he could almost tell someone who was really 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.120 not doing well, and they were not long for the 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:21.280 world because within the conversation it was revealed that they 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:26.000 had nothing left to expect from life, where the people 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:30.360 that persevered had the opposite perspective. They believed that even 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:37.320 in the midst of the most unimaginably cruel circumstances, life 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:43.440 was demanding something from them. Life was not accountable to them. 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:47.520 They were still accountable to life. And whether that was 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.839 in Victor Frankel's case, they burned his manuscripts. He had 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.800 it in his head he wanted to reproduce his manuscripts, 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:57.480 to bring something out into the world that would serve humanity. 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:00.640 He wondered he would see on these more he would 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.679 just see his wife's face and her smile, and he 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.160 wanted to get back to her. For other people who's 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:10.280 remembering the names and faces of the captors, yea, to 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.280 sort of they survived, they could take part in bringing 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.800 them to justice. And it was this deep rooted purpose 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:18.840 that without that you won't survive. 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:26.080 Yeah, it's I think, you know, finding finding a way 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.720 in the middle of what seems to be like insurmountable, 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:34.120 you know, odds or pain or obstacles, And I wonder 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:41.120 what makes you know, like sometimes even in the self 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.000 help personal development space that you and I kind of 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:47.240 you know, professional development, personal development, you and I kind 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.160 of live professionally. But the rah rah b all you 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:54.040 can be try harder, work through adversity, you know, like 0:13:55.760 --> 0:14:01.000 it's it's quite limited in its application, and you know, 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:07.400 in the middle of extreme whatever. I wonder how much 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:11.800 of that is just I don't know, personality, How much 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:15.200 of that is genetic, how much of that is you know, 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:21.040 the neurochemistry, you know, or the biochemistry of the brain 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:25.600 how much of that is I don't know, some spiritual 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:30.600 component faith, hope, you know. I wonder what makes the difference. 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.760 And because some of the you know, some of the 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.840 what you would think would be the toughest people whatever 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:42.400 that means, can capitulate quickly and other people just for 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.240 whatever reason just find a way. 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:47.920 Well, you hear that all the time, right, Like the 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:51.600 people who you think would like rock up and oh wow, 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:55.720 look at this individual. Yeah, they're going to do really 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.240 well in whatever the challenging of circumstances, and they don't. 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.800 And then you look at someone's completely unassuming in every 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:04.560 respect of the world. You just don't know. And I 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.480 think it's a combination of all things. But I think 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:14.720 it's almost like to me going back to certainty. And 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:16.800 I know I bring this up all the time. Certainty 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:20.680 scares the shit out of me. And people who are 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:25.520 so certain in their worldview in my mind what I'm witnessing, 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:27.360 they're so easily manipulated. 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:31.200 First of all, do you mean the idea of certainty, 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.440 like the idea that people are absolutely certain about things 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:35.920 that Okay. 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:39.520 I know, I know, I know what you're about, I 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:41.360 know what I'm about, I know what I would do 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:44.840 in any given set of circumstances. Those people over there, 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.480 they're really good. Those people over there, they're bad. Meanwhile, 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.800 we don't know shit about even se if you really 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.440 think about like, well, that's just me, that's not the 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.200 person I am. I know myself, do you really like 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.720 if you really get down to it, like you really 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:04.040 half of us probably more don't really understand ourselves an 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:07.520 intimate level, but you understand somebody else in its entirety, 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:13.120 and you can create this global generalization. But think about 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:15.440 somebody like that, like, think about how he wound up 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:20.200 in a concentration camp in the first place. It's that, 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.119 I mean, there's a lot more to it, but there's 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:32.520 that perspective being leveraged with a false narrative, and people 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:36.880 just I mean, just get on board. And god, what's 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.560 interesting you're talking about? You don't know people. You cannot 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.200 look at someone and say, well that person. Do you 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:48.680 remember in the book where he was talking about the 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:52.600 commander of one of the camps, So he was really sick, 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:55.160 and he was tending to other people who were so 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.840 sick and in so much pain. They probably weren't going 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:00.640 to make it. They weren't giving them any medicines, barely 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.119 any medicine to go around. And then but medicine kept 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.480 showing up, and they had like barely enough, and kept 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.800 showing up and had barely enough. And the whole time 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:14.240 it was the commander of the concentration camp, the top 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:18.879 guy in charge, who was going into town and spending 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:22.200 what Victor Frankel estimated was a large sum of his 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:27.000 own money secretly bringing medicine for these prisoners back into 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:33.280 the camp. So when when Germany fell and the Allies 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.640 had taken over these camps and liberated them, they were 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:41.919 looking for this commander and the prisoners were protecting this 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:46.199 commander and said, well, don't he's like, don't get confused. 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:50.240 He wasn't trying to say, well, this commander was really 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.199 secretly a kind hearted person. No, he was a Nazi 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:58.000 commander who oversaw a concentration camp. Wasn't a really kind guy. 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:00.600 But yet in the midst of that, you would never 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:06.560 expect that like anonymity and kindness. Yet you would have 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:10.400 fellow prisoners in the camp. But before the war were 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:15.560 probably normal people going out, sitting at cafes. Someone you 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.879 would talk to in the morning, and he said that 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:22.600 they were more brutal. Prisoners that were put in position 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.000 of authority were more brutal to other prisoners than any 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:30.439 guard could have been. It's like, do you really know people? 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.320 Can you really make determinations? I think it's scary because 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:36.680 the more we distance from each other and the more 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:40.359 we resort to this tribalism, the more we just have 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:44.119 an echo chamber and certainty. Certainty can be leveraged to 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:49.840 shocking extents. So for me, that's a characteristic in someone 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.679 and myself that terrifies me. 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:55.679 I feel like the need that people have to be 0:18:55.840 --> 0:19:01.359 certain arises from the terror that people have to be uncertain, 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:07.640 Like people do not like not knowing. And I actually 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:14.399 think that when you lean into the truth, like the 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:18.760 truth is, we don't know a lot of things. We 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:23.040 probably don't know most things. And I feel like also 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:27.720 because quite often our identity, as I've said many times, 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:31.600 our identity is intertwined with what we think, with our belief, 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.960 with our certainty that despite the fact that there's four 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.640 thousand religions, twelve major religions, my religion is the one, 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:42.600 and my religion and my religion alone has got a 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.880 unique hotline to the divine and everyone else is going 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:51.080 hell where not and like to be able to go, look, 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:53.960 this is what I think about the god thing, this 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.199 is what I believe, well, this is what I believe 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.080 to be the best diet, or this is what I 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:02.840 believe to be the best w whatever. Nonetheless, that's just 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:07.880 my belief. I've been wrong many times in my life, hundreds, 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:10.800 maybe thousands of times I've been wrong. So the chance 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:14.119 that I'm absolutely right about this thing for which I 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:20.600 have no categoric evidence is zero. So to be able 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:25.160 to go look you think, AI think, b that's cool. 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:27.240 I don't need to convince you. You don't need to 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:30.320 convince me. And also, neither do we have to hate 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:33.720 each other because we don't align on what is or 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:36.680 we don't align on a certain opinion on ideology or 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:42.480 philosophy or theology. And more importantly, we can actually love 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:47.200 each other. We can actually be kind. Obviously there are 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:51.080 some exceptions to this about hate and violence and extremism, 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:54.719 of course, but in general terms, with most of the 0:20:54.800 --> 0:21:03.159 things that most people get hysterical about online, it's like, Okay, 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:06.639 you know you think Donald Trump's the devil. I don't, 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:09.960 or I do, and you don't or whatever. It's like, 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:12.200 it doesn't matter what we by the way, it doesn't 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:13.919 matter what you think. And I think it's not going 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:18.399 to change anything. All we're doing is creating angst and 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:22.159 separation and we're getting online and we're you know, it's like, 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:26.800 it's just to me most of it. I think there's 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:29.280 a time for pushback, and there's a time, but I 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:32.360 think most of the disagreement and the anger and the 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:37.840 hate and the separation, it's so fucking toxic and unhealthy 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:39.640 and pointlessly devastating. 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:43.880 So my wife is a little bit ill right now. 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:46.240 She's fine, but we you know, we went to hospital 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:49.320 yesterday and they did a bunch of tests and x 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:52.920 rays and you know, they gave her meds because it's 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:57.480 great if my wife had a nail through her head, 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:00.439 like she would just like get a and go to 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:04.440 work for her to go, oh, I think this is serious. 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:06.920 It's serious. So we went to the hospital and when 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:08.560 they gave her the meds, they were talking about, Okay, 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:12.199 well you want to take this this pill in the 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:15.439 morning and this pill at night, but don't take this 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:17.960 pill at night because if you take this pill at night, 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:20.560 you're not gonna sleep well, and that's gonna make you 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:25.879 a lot worse. And it's almost like we've been prescribed 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:29.600 all these pills and it's like, okay, if you if 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:33.080 you take this in the morning, it's gonna make you 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:35.159 a lot better. If you take this pill in the morning, 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:38.720 it's gonna make you a lot worse. And we just 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:41.320 keep popping the pill that's gonna make us worse. First 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:42.920 thing in the morning we wake up and we keep 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:45.240 taking it and taking It's like, I feel so horrible, 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:48.040 and then what do you do. I'm gonna take more 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:49.879 of this because if you look at it like like 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:55.840 the the one, the biochemistry and the psychology of kindness, 0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:01.080 all things being equal, will mitigate the levels of stress 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:06.080 you're feeling. Yeah, it will. It will elevate your sense 0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:09.359 of connection, it will elevate your sense of safety, it 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:12.680 will it will increase everything that you want and decrease 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:16.359 everything that you don't want. Even if it doesn't change 0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:18.840 the world around you, it'll change the world within you 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:21.400 and the people who are their sipping into that kindness. 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:24.679 But we don't do that right instead of instead of 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:28.280 going and going, oh, well, look at this person, what 0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:30.359 are they going through? What it's what is it like 0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:35.639 to be them? Yeah, and and really exploring that with care. 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:39.359 It's like, are they like me? The fact that that 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:42.960 there's a side for people living in the same country 0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:47.880 is ridiculous. It's like, and here in this country, God, 0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:52.680 I avoid politics. But what's funny is on both quote 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:56.480 unquote sides, they flip on their core values depending on 0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:59.920 who said what. Yes, It's like one side is like, listen, 0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:03.360 we believe the color blue is the most important thing 0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:06.280 that we have here. And then like the other side, 0:24:06.359 --> 0:24:08.159 we'll say, oh yeah, we like blue. Oh no, we 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:11.080 hate blue. We're all about green here. We hate it, 0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:12.760 but we hate those blue people. 0:24:13.240 --> 0:24:13.480 Yes. 0:24:13.520 --> 0:24:18.119 And it's like you just based your entire identity on 0:24:18.200 --> 0:24:22.160 a belief system that you abandon because your side said 0:24:22.200 --> 0:24:25.679 something different or another side said something that you have 0:24:25.720 --> 0:24:28.879 to now position against. What are we doing where if 0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:30.639 we would just see each other and talk to people 0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:34.080 and be interested, yes, you wouldn't be suffering. But no, 0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:37.359 we jump on threads and we make the most horrible comments, 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:40.680 and it's like we're so certain and we're not curious 0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:43.720