WEBVTT - How one fossil-fuel giant captured Australia

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<v Speaker 1>I got fascinated by the Woodside story because of the

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<v Speaker 1>emphasis really that the climate movement decided to put on Woodside.

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<v Speaker 2>Marion Wilkinson has been reporting on climate and energy policy

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<v Speaker 2>for decades and has recently turned her attention to Australia's

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<v Speaker 2>fossil fuel giant Woodside. Last week, the government approved Woodside's

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<v Speaker 2>plans to keep its Northwest Shelf project producing gas out

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<v Speaker 2>to twenty seventy We've.

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<v Speaker 1>Always said with Australia's fossil fuel exports, whether they're coal

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<v Speaker 1>or liquid natural gas LNG, that that's the responsibility of

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<v Speaker 1>our customers under the Paris Agreement, and in fact I

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<v Speaker 1>heard Murray wat just talking on your podcast about that.

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<v Speaker 3>I guess the way the world has approached dealing with

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<v Speaker 3>climate change and greenhouse emissions, particularly through the Paris Agreement,

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<v Speaker 3>is to say that every country who's a signatory to

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<v Speaker 3>the agreement needs to reduce the emissions that it emits

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<v Speaker 3>in their own country.

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<v Speaker 1>But things are different now. The climate emergency is such

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<v Speaker 1>that we actually need to seriously examine what we're doing

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<v Speaker 1>about our customers emissions when we send out all these

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<v Speaker 1>fossil fuels to the rest of the world. That's why

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<v Speaker 1>I was interested in the Woodside story.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM today

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<v Speaker 2>walk the award winning journalist and author of the quarterly

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<v Speaker 2>essay Woodside Versus the Planet, Marion Wilkinson on how one

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<v Speaker 2>company captured the country and convinced us that GUS is

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<v Speaker 2>necessary as the world transitions away from fossil fuels. It's Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 2>September sixteenth, Marian. This is a pivotal moment for the

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<v Speaker 2>energy giant Woodside, and I want to start by talking

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<v Speaker 2>about the company's recent annual general meeting. You were there,

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<v Speaker 2>so what happened?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it was it was a bit of surprise because

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<v Speaker 1>I did know that the annual general meetings of Woodside

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<v Speaker 1>had been quite fraud affairs for the last few years.

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<v Speaker 1>The level of security really surprised me. Around the Crown

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<v Speaker 1>Casino ballroom area in Perth, which is where it was

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<v Speaker 1>being held, there was security guards absolutely everywhere. It was

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<v Speaker 1>like going to the airport, you know, bags checked the

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<v Speaker 1>whole box and dice. Nevertheless, the climate activists came in

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<v Speaker 1>there no doubt, on proxies from other shareholders, blowing very

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<v Speaker 1>loud whistles which they later said was blowing the whistle

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<v Speaker 1>on Meg O'Neil, the climate criminal.

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<v Speaker 4>It's very childish to stand up and shout, But having

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<v Speaker 4>a few people stand up, hackle and blow whistles doesn't

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<v Speaker 4>change our resolve, It doesn't change our beliefs.

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<v Speaker 1>But what I was particularly interested in was whether, in

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<v Speaker 1>a broader sense, the shareholders were still questioning the leadership

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<v Speaker 1>of Woodside on their climate plan. And I think some

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<v Speaker 1>of the heat has gone out of the shareholder concern

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<v Speaker 1>about fossil fuel businesses. And I think there's a feeling,

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<v Speaker 1>certainly in financial circles that the Trump administration has given

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<v Speaker 1>the industry a big break, But I don't think that

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<v Speaker 1>actually changes the long term outlook for companies like Woodside.

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<v Speaker 1>I think they are still going to be under enormous

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<v Speaker 1>pressure because at the end of the day, you cannot

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<v Speaker 1>get around the science of climate change.

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<v Speaker 2>You mentioned Meg O'Neill, so she's been the CEO of

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<v Speaker 2>Woodside for the past four years. During that time, the

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<v Speaker 2>company got approval to expand its gas production out to

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<v Speaker 2>twenty seventy So it seems like mag O'Neill is doing

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<v Speaker 2>quite a good job of what she's being paid to do.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you say, I think she's doing a very good

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<v Speaker 1>job at the moment for what the board wants her

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<v Speaker 1>to do. If we look at what's happened in the

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<v Speaker 1>last four years, She's managed to ram through the Scarborough Project.

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<v Speaker 1>It's meant expanding their Pluto gas processing plant on the

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<v Speaker 1>Barrett Peninsula. She's got both the WA government and the

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<v Speaker 1>federal government on side with the extension of the big

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<v Speaker 1>gas plant up there, the Northwest Shelf plant, and she

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<v Speaker 1>is now plowing on with trying to feed gas into

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<v Speaker 1>that Northwest Shelf plant from an expansion with some new

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<v Speaker 1>gas fields in what's called the Brows Basin up there.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think you'd have to say in the short

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<v Speaker 1>term she's been very successful.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you tell me a.

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<v Speaker 2>Little bit more about her rise to that job or

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<v Speaker 2>where did she come from? How did she become the CEO.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, she's basically been an ex On person all her life.

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<v Speaker 1>But the part of her career that really interested me

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<v Speaker 1>was that she went to headquarters around the time of

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<v Speaker 1>the Paris Agreement, which was twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, to

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<v Speaker 1>work for the eggs On Chief Executive. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>she would have been there right at the time of

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<v Speaker 1>one of the biggest original shareholder revolts internally against Eggson

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<v Speaker 1>by climate activists.

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<v Speaker 6>A climate activist group has targeted Exon Mobile with a

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<v Speaker 6>shareholder resolution calling for deeper cuts in its carbon emissions.

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<v Speaker 6>Dutch group followed this has urged the US energy giant

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<v Speaker 6>to publish targets for a use in greenhouse gas emissions

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<v Speaker 6>and the burning of fossil fuels sold to customers.

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<v Speaker 1>So she really knows the mo of climate activism and

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<v Speaker 1>climate shareholder activism.

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<v Speaker 2>And you got an interview with her recently. How hard

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<v Speaker 2>was it to secure that and how did it go?

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<v Speaker 1>Look, she was quite forthcoming in the end, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think she was very keen to put the line of

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<v Speaker 1>the company. She is absolutely determined, I think, to press

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<v Speaker 1>the case that the Wa Labor government and the federal

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<v Speaker 1>Albanesi government are pressing that what Woodside is doing by

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<v Speaker 1>exporting LNG is helping to decarbonize our Asian neighbors.

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<v Speaker 4>And we should not be regressing. We should instead be

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<v Speaker 4>extending access to electricity to the hundreds of millions of

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<v Speaker 4>people in the developing world who still live without it.

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<v Speaker 4>To do that, we need new supplies of affordable and

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<v Speaker 4>reliable energy, but we also need to decarbonize.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a claim that's been running for well over a

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<v Speaker 1>decade since the Paris Agreement was struck, but it is

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<v Speaker 1>now a claim that a lot of countries and companies

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<v Speaker 1>are hanging their hats on.

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<v Speaker 2>And so does it hold up.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's getting really questionable now. On the one hand,

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<v Speaker 1>we're seeing this rise in renewables, and I think that

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<v Speaker 1>the instinct of the company's like wood Side, will be

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<v Speaker 1>to try their hardest to hold onto their market share

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<v Speaker 1>and to hold on to their customers, and that means

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<v Speaker 1>that they're going to be really pressuring governments like the

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<v Speaker 1>Australian government to stand by this thesis that they're helping

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<v Speaker 1>decarbonize the world, when really we want to look at

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<v Speaker 1>whether that amount of leg going into the market at

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<v Speaker 1>the same time of the really rapid rise and renewables

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<v Speaker 1>that actually the grab the market share by the gas

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<v Speaker 1>companies will hinder the transition rather than help it.

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<v Speaker 4>Coming up.

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<v Speaker 2>What the government gets out of its friendship with Woodside.

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<v Speaker 4>The Australian government has stated it's support for the gas

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<v Speaker 4>industry and it has provided strong reassurances that Australia is

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<v Speaker 4>not quietly quitting its LNG industry. Woodside is certainly not

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<v Speaker 4>quietly quitting. We are deliberately delivering.

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<v Speaker 2>So Marian, I want to drill down a bit more

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<v Speaker 2>on the relationship between Woodside and both the federal government

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<v Speaker 2>and Wa state government, because it seems like the government's

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<v Speaker 2>rhetoric on gas and the approvals that they're granting they

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<v Speaker 2>are all in line with Woodsides ambitions as a company.

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<v Speaker 2>So what did those governments get out of this relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the success of Woodside is inherently baked into

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<v Speaker 1>the psyche of Australia's main political parties. I think it

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<v Speaker 1>was an unbelievably ambitious, important project right at the beginning

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<v Speaker 1>when it started in the nineteen eighties. I mean it

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<v Speaker 1>was Australia's first LNG plant. It opened the door for

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<v Speaker 1>the other big LNG players to come to Australia. Certainly

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<v Speaker 1>in its original thinking, the domestic gas it supplied for

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<v Speaker 1>Wa was very important to that state, both the industry

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<v Speaker 1>and for the public. So on a simple level, there

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<v Speaker 1>is a bit of tax and export income. Critically for

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<v Speaker 1>both governments. There's jobs and that is a huge issue

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<v Speaker 1>in Wa. That means seats electoral seats. That means political

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<v Speaker 1>support in the Labor Party in the unions. That is

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<v Speaker 1>a really big deal. It's backed by Kerry Stokes, who's

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<v Speaker 1>the most important media proprietor in WA. So on so

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<v Speaker 1>many different levels, both the state and federal governments, whether

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<v Speaker 1>they're Liberal or Labor, they are intimately tied up with

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<v Speaker 1>the future of Woodside. But neither the company nor the

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<v Speaker 1>governments want to look ahead to what is actually happening

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<v Speaker 1>in the energy transition. So we hear about the vital

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<v Speaker 1>critical minerals industry all the time. These are the minerals

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<v Speaker 1>that are going to help build the energy transition. And

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<v Speaker 1>there's been a sleight of hand that somehow these critical

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<v Speaker 1>minerals projects are going to be fueled by green energy.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you spend any time in Western Australia, people

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<v Speaker 1>talk largely about gas fueling that industry. And this is

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<v Speaker 1>why Western Australia's emissions should be allowed to go up,

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<v Speaker 1>so they can help with the critical minerals industry and

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<v Speaker 1>so they can help decarbonize the world. Even though that

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<v Speaker 1>state's emissions are going up. To me both the government

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<v Speaker 1>and the gas companies in WA, they're a million miles

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<v Speaker 1>away from what the climate movement is thinking, and that

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<v Speaker 1>gap I think is untenable.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, do you think that is a problem for the

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<v Speaker 2>federal government because it seems like staking its reputation on

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<v Speaker 2>being a gas export and also investing in things like

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<v Speaker 2>critical minerals is one thing. But is that enough of

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<v Speaker 2>a benefit for the federal government to justify continuing to

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<v Speaker 2>support woodside in the way that it does.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's the really critical question, And I think

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<v Speaker 1>the problem is we're trying to answer that question without

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<v Speaker 1>realistic data about what is going on in the decarbonization

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<v Speaker 1>of Asia. So I keep hearing this mantra from the

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<v Speaker 1>companies and from the governments that we're decarbonizing Asia, therefore

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<v Speaker 1>we're helping decarbonize the world. Once you start picking this apart,

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<v Speaker 1>the arguments become a lot more complicated if you look

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<v Speaker 1>at a country like Japan. Japan is and has been

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<v Speaker 1>since more or less the time of the Paris Agreement,

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<v Speaker 1>building its own gas enpire to re export gas around

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<v Speaker 1>the world and to trade gas around the world. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of Australians believe we're exporting to

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<v Speaker 1>Japan so they can keep the lights on in Tokyo.

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<v Speaker 1>And keep Japanese people warm. But actually Japan is also

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<v Speaker 1>becoming a major global gas trader. And also if we're saying, well,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to let our customers deal with the emissions

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<v Speaker 1>from burning our gas, Japan might have a net zero

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<v Speaker 1>by twenty fifty target, But does Cambodia, does the Philippines,

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<v Speaker 1>does Vietnam? So the minute you start opening up this question,

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<v Speaker 1>it becomes quite messy and quite complicated. And I guess,

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<v Speaker 1>if this is going to be the rationale, let's get

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<v Speaker 1>some real information on it that is not just the

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<v Speaker 1>information put out by the gas companies.

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<v Speaker 5>And so, given the international energy market, the changes you're

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<v Speaker 5>describing there, and the growing climate protest movement here in

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<v Speaker 5>Australia that is becoming more focused on Woodside, how secure

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<v Speaker 5>do you think the company's future is.

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<v Speaker 1>I think in the short term, mego'neil's future is very secure,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think the board is backing her. I think

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<v Speaker 1>while the climate movement's actions against Woodside have pretty much

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<v Speaker 1>been unsuccessful in actually stopping the projects to date, I

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<v Speaker 1>think a far bigger question is the global pressures that

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<v Speaker 1>will be on Australia. One from the speed of the

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<v Speaker 1>energy transition but I think probably more importantly it's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be the pressure of the pact of climate change

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<v Speaker 1>on Australia itself. From the current global emissions, we are

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<v Speaker 1>now looking at serious problems for the Great Barrier Reef

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<v Speaker 1>survival in our lifetime. And I think in the shorter

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<v Speaker 1>term there is a serious campaign that will happen around

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<v Speaker 1>the overhaul of Australia's environmental laws. I think a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people in the climate movement are saying there has

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<v Speaker 1>to be a climate trigger in those laws, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think the reason they have to be on the table

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<v Speaker 1>is that Australians know that it's not just the emissions

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<v Speaker 1>at home that impact their lives with climate change. They

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<v Speaker 1>know what is impacting their life is the global emissions.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't just deal with your emissions at home and

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<v Speaker 1>say that you're a responsible climate actor if at the

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<v Speaker 1>same time you are trying to have your industries profit

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<v Speaker 1>from fossil fuel exports without saying we're going to take

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<v Speaker 1>on the hard yards, which is how we provide affordable

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<v Speaker 1>renewable energy for industry. That works.

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<v Speaker 4>Well.

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<v Speaker 2>Marian, thank you so much for your teian. Thanks Ruby.

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<v Speaker 2>You can read Marion Wilkinson's Quarterly Essay Woodside versus the

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<v Speaker 2>Planet at Quarterlyessay dot com dot au. Also in the

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<v Speaker 2>news today, Prime Minister Anthony Alberzi says the closure of

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<v Speaker 2>his electorate office in Sydney's Inner West after more than

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<v Speaker 2>thirty years was prompted by pro Palestinian protesters who've been

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<v Speaker 2>demonstrating outside for over a year. Says the protests have

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<v Speaker 2>affected people attending a nearby church and disrupted the church services,

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<v Speaker 2>and says a new site is being searched for relocation.

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<v Speaker 2>And Arab and Islamic leaders have gathered in Qatar to

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<v Speaker 2>discuss a response to Israel's strike on Doha last week,

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<v Speaker 2>which killed five Hamas members and a Katari security officer

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<v Speaker 2>and left civilians injured. Qatar's Prime minister says the attack

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<v Speaker 2>in Doha violated both Qatar's sovereignty and international law as

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<v Speaker 2>it struck near schools, housing and diplomatic missions. At the

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<v Speaker 2>same time as the meeting in Doha, Israeli Prime Minister

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<v Speaker 2>Benjamin Etna, who hosted US Secretary of State Marco Rubio

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<v Speaker 2>in Jerusalem. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 4>Thanks for listening.