1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm suan Alma. 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: Ninety nine percent of tech companies believe new graduates are 3 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: not job ready and it's taking up to nine months 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: to get them up to speed. It's a bit alarming 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: both for tech companies and for tech focused jobs in 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: other industries, and it's pushing more companies to look offshore 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: for workers. It's one of the key findings from the 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Digital State of the Nation reporters survey conducted by the 9 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: Australian Information Industry Association. This lack of job ready talent 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: is combining with concerns over the economic outlook to make 11 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: local tech companies reluctant to pursue overseas expansion. Sue Lee 12 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: Siao is the general Manager of Policy and Media at 13 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: the AIIA, the Australian Information Industry Association c be Welcome 14 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: to Fear and Greed. 15 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 16 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: So as the job readiness of tech grads getting worse 17 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: or has this always been the case that they get 18 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: a degree or a diploma, or they get and kind 19 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: of need a lot more training, it. 20 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: Has always been fairly bad. This particular year we've gotten 21 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 2: the worst result in the last three years. 22 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: Okay, is that an issue with the education do you think? 23 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: I mean, why is that the case? 24 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 2: Well, it's a disconnect between the education and the industry. 25 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 2: So what we're finding, so beyond the survey from our members, 26 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 2: are that we seem to have, you know, the schools 27 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 2: coming up with a set of scientific skills, but they're 28 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 2: not just technology skills. So it's not the skills that 29 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 2: are coming out, is not the skills that are being 30 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,559 Speaker 2: needed at the moment. And so you've got that one 31 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 2: problem of knowledge, the lack of knowledge, and then you've 32 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 2: got another problem of lack of experience. So even if 33 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: you come up with technology skills, you may not be 34 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 2: able to be deployed on feel for cybersecurity protection for example. 35 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 2: So it's it's a two layer problem, the lack of 36 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 2: knowledge the lack of experience. 37 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: So what impact is it having on small and medium 38 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: sized business in particular? 39 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 2: The impact are that number one is going to increase 40 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 2: business costs, so there's a greater competition for the right talent. 41 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 2: The other one is that because of the rising costs, 42 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: we're seeing a lot more of our businesses going overseas 43 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: to look for talent. So last year about one percent. 44 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 2: What's going to look for talent overseas that's in seven percent, 45 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 2: so that has started to increase as well. 46 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: What can be done to improve it? How can we 47 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: fix things? 48 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, we see there are a couple of possible solutions. 49 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 2: One is to increase the dialogue between the educational sector 50 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 2: and the industry, so having a lot more real time 51 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 2: feedback on what skills we need. The other is that 52 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: we're seeing a lot of programs are like two years 53 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,679 Speaker 2: four years because of how fast technology change. We need 54 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 2: a bit more edge ob approach where the schools can 55 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 2: come up with graduates with more timely or job ready 56 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: skills in line weight color manages to about being I 57 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: understand you know before we mentioned about the lack of experience. 58 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: We think there needs to be a bit more creativity 59 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 2: around curriculum as well, so more what plays integrate learning 60 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 2: for example, so less of theoretical sign more of a 61 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 2: hands on learning cider as well. 62 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: Stay with me, see Lee, We'll be back in a minute. 63 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: My guest this morning is see Lica, our general manager 64 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: of Policy and Media at the Australian Information Industry Association. 65 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: The other thing I find with the education in technology. 66 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: It's if you want to be a lawyer. Lawyer you 67 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: kind of know what you have to learn, and if 68 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: you want to be a doctor, it's a bit the same. 69 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: But technology to me seems totally vast, from project management 70 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: to cyber skills through to artificial intelligence. Are the learning 71 00:03:54,960 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: providers targeting skills targeting learning appropriately, do you think? 72 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 2: But we don't think so. We don't think that's a 73 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: very good in depth understanding on the range of skills. 74 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 2: I think it's we discussed just now. There was the scientific, 75 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 2: very technical hard skills, and then it's very soft skills, 76 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 2: which is the management psychology of technology, for example. So 77 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 2: I don't think the curriculum or the schools are understanding 78 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: the breath of skills that are necessary and forward the 79 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: different types of jobs in the technology sector. 80 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: So this is kind of referring to what you said 81 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: a moment ago would be a good idea to get 82 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: industry closer to education to somehow try and work together 83 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: to get people more job ready. 84 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: Definitely. So I'll give you another example. One of the 85 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: anatotal feedback from our members. What you have sometimes in 86 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: some schools is that you've got one teacher who happens 87 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: to be really good at IT and he's IT teacher. 88 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 2: It may not be actually IT trained. It just happens 89 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: to be someone who's poot with computer and so that 90 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 2: person probably deploy in the score with this additional responsibility 91 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 2: to talk about temology without actually understanding the septum. And 92 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 2: it's not supported by deceptor as well with the latest information. 93 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 2: So I think that's where we did play with the 94 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 2: idea whether we can get both sectors up closer and 95 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 2: to support the IT teachers in scores. 96 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: Artificial intelligence we hear so much about it. It is 97 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: the future, it's a revolution. We've heard all that. Where 98 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: are the work is going to come from that understand 99 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: and know how to use artificial intelligence? And I have 100 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: actually looked up to try and work out how to 101 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 1: learn about artificial intelligence. So I've looked for courses online 102 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: and there are some very generic courses online, but to 103 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: be honest, there doesn't seem to be a great deal 104 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,559 Speaker 1: of study available on AI at this point. 105 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 2: I think that the different categories of the newsful artificial intelligence. 106 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 2: So there's a very simple basic form, which is are 107 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 2: you able to deploy artificial intelligence as a user? Then 108 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 2: the next level of is are you able to develop 109 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: artificial intelligence? So there's a bit more coding, a bit 110 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 2: more about data set training, et cetera. So's there's different levels. 111 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 2: A lot of the training that we can see and 112 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 2: AABI has done, for example, is with work with the 113 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 2: Queensland government where we've managed to provide training to workers 114 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: within jobs to kind of start deploying AI in their 115 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: existing environment with the existing problems for example, So we're 116 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: training them as they are doing the work, and then 117 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 2: the other skills set, which is a lot more sophisticated, 118 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,559 Speaker 2: would then be obviously the ones would be going through 119 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: schools for example, where there's a lot more for more 120 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 2: training for that kind of work. 121 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: The whole idea of reskilling sounds like it's going to 122 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: become more and more important in this area. 123 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 2: Yes, because there's a lot more edge and there's a 124 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: lot more situated in your workplace. So it gives you 125 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 2: context on how that our the AI skills is being 126 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: used in your workplace. 127 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: Okay, let's bring the government into this. Are they doing 128 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: enough well? Firstly, do they understand the critical role of 129 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: information in technology and are they doing enough to support it? 130 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:33,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is definitely a big issue currently file SCEPTER, 131 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 2: and the short answer is we don't think it's doing enough. 132 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 2: We think there is a disproportionate attention towards the regulation 133 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 2: then the innovation and the adoption side of things. So 134 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: we're seeing the government spending more energy in trying to 135 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: figure out how to regulate the space to answer that 136 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 2: it's safe, which we agree with. We just don't see 137 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 2: the same investment in training the people of Australia, our 138 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 2: young students up in artificial intelligence skills for example, or 139 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 2: training workers in workplace by supporting, for example, the businesses 140 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 2: in giving them grants or helping them understand what tools 141 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 2: they have to train their workers. So it's not a 142 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 2: balanced approach. In the last budget, we were quite disappointed 143 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: that would put out a press release that only about 144 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 2: forty million dollars were given the whole of artificial intelligence, 145 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 2: including standing up new regulatory framework, and that really appeals 146 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: in comparison to what we're seeing in other jurisdictions. So 147 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 2: for example, in Canada that was I think it's two 148 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 2: point seven billion dollars in training to develop sovereign AI. 149 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 2: That is Canadian, and then we've seen Singapore putting another 150 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 2: couple of billion dollars as well in training. It's definitely 151 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 2: put money for training people. We are above the age 152 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 2: forty in AI, so if you want to go back 153 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 2: to get a diploma, you can. The Government's going to 154 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: pay for that. So we just don't see the same 155 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 2: amount of investment throughout budget in training the Australian people. 156 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 2: Australians in starting to use this emerging technology. 157 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: See Lee, thank you very much for talking to Fear 158 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: and Greed. Thank you that was See Lecile, general Manager 159 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: of Policy and Media at the Australian Information Industry Association. 160 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 1: This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join us 161 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed 162 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 1: Daily Business years for people who make their own decisions. 163 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: I'm Sean Elmer. Enjoy your day.