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Speaker 1: In two thousand, five hundred and forty four fines have

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Speaker 1: been issued to drivers caught by new mobile phone detection

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Speaker 1: cameras in the first week of expiations. Four hundred and

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Speaker 1: five we're issued on day one, despite a three month

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Speaker 1: education period leading up to that. Three people expected to

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Speaker 1: lose their licenses after being caught numerous times on top

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Speaker 1: of a six hundred and fifty eight dollars fine every time,

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Speaker 1: So time three? What's that about? Seventeen eighteen hundred bucks.

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Speaker 1: But Superintendent Darren Fielkey says it isn't about revenue raising.

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Speaker 1: This is some comments he made yesterday. Let's have a listen,

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Speaker 1: and here we go. At the end of the day.

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Speaker 2: The simple way to avoid paying any mobile phone detection

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Speaker 2: fine or to stop losing your license is just not

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Speaker 2: to use your phone while driving. We can't be any

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Speaker 2: more clear on this. We've been talking about this now

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Speaker 2: for weeks.

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Speaker 1: And that is pretty much it now. I reckon if

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Speaker 1: you keep going through and I think some of those

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Speaker 1: thirty three people in the first three months, you wonder

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Speaker 1: if they did it as a challenge. There was no penalty,

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Speaker 1: just a lot of letters coming to fill up the

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Speaker 1: mailbox telling you you've been caught. Just wonder how many

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Speaker 1: deliberately drove through or surely they can't all have been

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Speaker 1: on their phones. Maybe they were, but you just wonder

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Speaker 1: if a couple of people had a bet, how many

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Speaker 1: times can you get caught and deliberately did it? But

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Speaker 1: it seems some do do it. And when you think

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Speaker 1: there's a few there likely to lose their license, clearly

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Speaker 1: they're not paying attention to the road safety message. Where

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Speaker 1: do we go with this? Let's have a chat Karen Stanley,

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Speaker 1: founder of Stanley Law and road traffic expert. Here in

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Speaker 1: essay Karen, good morning, good morning. Makeew all right, So

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Speaker 1: that many people do they have any recourse?

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Speaker 3: Well, they first of all, if they get a fine

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Speaker 3: in the mail on the fine will be an option

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Speaker 3: where they can review the photo and that's the photo

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Speaker 3: is the basis of the expiation notice. So they can

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Speaker 3: see on the photos whether they were using their mobile phone.

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Speaker 3: If it's pretty clear that they were using a phone,

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Speaker 3: or if people are willing to have a good long

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Speaker 3: look at themselves and except yep, I was using my

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Speaker 3: mobile phone, then they've got two options. They can pay

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Speaker 3: the fine and they will incur demerit points as well

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Speaker 3: three demerit points, or they can elect to be prosecuted.

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Speaker 3: I really recommend people only elect to be prosecuted if

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Speaker 3: they have a real reason for it. So if they

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Speaker 3: are genuinely adamant that they weren't using their phone and

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Speaker 3: the photo didn't indicate that, or demerit points are an

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Speaker 3: issue for them. But I really recommend that people get

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Speaker 3: advice before they elect to be prosecuted.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so speak to a lawyer, because that's a

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Speaker 1: big step. Obviously, the system is set up, You pay

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Speaker 1: the fine, the matter goes away.

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Speaker 3: That's right. And I imagine the courts aren't going to

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Speaker 3: be very happy if suddenly there are thousands of people

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Speaker 3: wanting to dispute their expiation notices. Now, of course we

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Speaker 3: all have that right to disute an expiation notice, but

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Speaker 3: I imagine magistrates will not be happy if there are

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Speaker 3: thousands of people in court when there is pretty clear

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Speaker 3: photographs of holding their mobile phone.

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Speaker 1: Okay, when is it not a clear photograph? I suppose

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Speaker 1: is the key thing? Maybe you are holding a I

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Speaker 1: don't know, a cigarette packet or something.

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Speaker 3: Well, then if that is if that's the case, and

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Speaker 3: that's what people want to argue and they're willing to

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Speaker 3: go to court and give that evidence, then absolutely they

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Speaker 3: should do that. But what I think these cameras are

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Speaker 3: sending a really important message to the community. And I'm

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Speaker 3: actually supported of these cameras because I'm a bit horrified

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Speaker 3: at the statistics that are coming out. Using a mobile

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Speaker 3: phone includes touching it or having it sitting on your lap,

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Speaker 3: and I think there are a lot of people being

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Speaker 3: caught out because they didn't realize that that amounts for you.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's the really important message that's coming

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Speaker 3: out because I'm actually getting calls from people who were going, well,

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Speaker 3: it was just sitting on my lap or oh I

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Speaker 3: was just checking the time. It's all using a mobile phone,

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Speaker 3: and it's all in offense.

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Speaker 1: Okay. The best advice would be to get a cradle,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't it Put it in the cradle if you want

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Speaker 1: it to be looking at you or you looking at it,

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Speaker 1: which you shouldn't be doing anyway. But if it's in

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Speaker 1: a cradle, as I understand it, no argument.

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Speaker 3: Look, I think the best advice is the advice from

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Speaker 3: Inspector fiel Key, is it don't touch a mobile phone. Look,

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Speaker 3: there are some exceptions to touching your mobile phone, and

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Speaker 3: that includes if it is in the cradle. But it's

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Speaker 3: really specific requirement for you to be able to touch

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Speaker 3: your mobile phone if it is in a cradle. And

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Speaker 3: I think if you're going to go through a camera

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Speaker 3: and you're touching a phone, even if it's in a cradle,

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Speaker 3: you're probably going to get a phone and then you're

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Speaker 3: going to have to go through the process of going

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Speaker 3: through court to explain that you've got a defense under

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Speaker 3: the law, or it's going to be a very expensive

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Speaker 3: touching of the phone in the cradle while you're while

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Speaker 3: you're driving along.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you can use Siri, whether if it's in a

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Speaker 1: cradle or on the seat next to you. Can't. You

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Speaker 1: can say hey, Siri, call Bible whoever.

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Speaker 3: That is a really really tricky area of law maximum

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Speaker 3: And I'm not yeah, it really is because the legislation

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Speaker 3: it's really difficult to keep up with mobile phone technology

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Speaker 3: because mobile phones do so much more than make or

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Speaker 3: receive phone calls. The wording of the legislation is real,

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Speaker 3: really specific, and in some instances it's okay to use Siri,

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Speaker 3: and in some instances it's not. I think I think

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Speaker 3: it's probably quite reasonable to tell all your listeners that

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Speaker 3: if you are on your full license, because different laws

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Speaker 3: for teach players. If you're on your full license and

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Speaker 3: your mobile phone rings and you answer using Siri, that

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Speaker 3: you're not committing an offense. And if you use Siri

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Speaker 3: to make a call, as long as you're not touching

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Speaker 3: your phone, you're not committing an offense. The law gets

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Speaker 3: really wooly when it comes to sending and receiving messages.

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Speaker 3: Use theory when you're driving, which is why I'm a

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Speaker 3: little bit careful about what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Well, see this is where as the expression goes, the

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Speaker 1: law is an ass because frankly, what's the difference.

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Speaker 3: Well, the difference is driver distraction and that's really what

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Speaker 3: the Australian road rules are. They are they are law,

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Speaker 3: but they are a guidance on how to drive a

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Speaker 3: car without risking lives of other people. So the law,

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Speaker 3: the law just cannot keep up with mobile phone technology.

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Speaker 3: Like we can't have one law for if you're touching

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Speaker 3: your phone to make a call and another law so

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Speaker 3: if you're scrolling along, you know, reading the news while

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Speaker 3: you're driving, because the police can't really can't tell the difference.

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Speaker 1: In the meantime, cars come out with technology that includes

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Speaker 1: big screens that you are allowed to touch.

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Speaker 3: Well not really, Matthew.

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Speaker 1: Okay, explain that once. So there is.

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Speaker 3: There is a law similar to the mobile phone that

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Speaker 3: you can't use. It's an offense to have what's called

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Speaker 3: a visual display unit in your car if it's likely

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Speaker 3: to strap you or another driver. There is a defense

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Speaker 3: if that display unit is a driver's aid, So if

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Speaker 3: it's I, it's maps Source fat map. But using that

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Speaker 3: big screen for anything other than using it as a

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Speaker 3: map from get to A to B is an offense.

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Speaker 3: So I think that's a really important message that needs

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Speaker 3: to come out to the public. And that's really why

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Speaker 3: I support I really support the cameras because there is

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Speaker 3: no doubt going to be a breaking in period when

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Speaker 3: people are committing an offensive using a mobile phone when

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Speaker 3: they don't actually think they're committing an offense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, that's interesting. And back in the day,

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Speaker 1: we drive along with a street map, you know, the

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Speaker 1: UbD propped up on the steering well looking at where

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Speaker 1: we were going.

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Speaker 3: Look, that's a really interesting point, Matthew, because I was

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Speaker 3: thinking about this this morning. See, using a mobile phone

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Speaker 3: is the only item that it is an efent to

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Speaker 3: be using. So there is no law saying that you

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Speaker 3: can't eat, or drink or read when you're driving a lot.

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Speaker 3: There are lots of laws that say you're driving without

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Speaker 3: you care or not keeping a proper lookout, or lots

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Speaker 3: of generic a law. So I'm not telling people to

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Speaker 3: go hard and you know, read while they're driving, but

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Speaker 3: it is really mobile phones are the only item that

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Speaker 3: you are specifically prohibited from.

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Speaker 1: The interesting Williams called in with a question for your

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Speaker 1: reason about a screen. I understand, william Good morning.

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Speaker 4: Good morning guys. So I worked for one of the

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Speaker 4: figure Curier companies here in South Australia, actually the national

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Speaker 4: quite quite big nationally. But Recurry a scanner that we

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Speaker 4: scan all of our parcels on and off our truck,

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Speaker 4: identical to a mobile phone. Basically, they sit in a

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Speaker 4: cradle right next to me, facing me with all my GPS,

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Speaker 4: my daily roster for the day, everything. If we were

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Speaker 4: to go through a mobile phone camera, I think you

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Speaker 4: might have asked this question. I just want to double

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Speaker 4: check on it. If we were to go through a

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Speaker 4: mobile phone camera with that map going on, that scanning device.

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Speaker 4: Will we be brought into that category of mobile phones?

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Speaker 3: I have no doubt you'll be given a fine for it.

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Speaker 3: And if you want to argue that what you were

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Speaker 3: touching was not a mobile phone, you would need to

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Speaker 3: go to court and run that argument.

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Speaker 1: Wow, okay, what about Uber drivers and their mobile phone

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Speaker 1: and Cabby's too, They've got the big screen, similar sort

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Speaker 1: of setup I imagine where they're always tapping away at

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Speaker 1: that screen looking for work as you're driving along with them.

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Speaker 3: I would need to have a look at the legislation

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Speaker 3: about visual display units to be able to answer that,

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Speaker 3: because it's really specific and it would really depend on

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Speaker 3: these specific circumstances. But I know there is a section

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Speaker 3: of the road rules that there's it is an offense

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Speaker 3: to have what's called a visual display unit that is

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Speaker 3: likely to distract the driver or another driver.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you only think you know the moment

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Speaker 1: you take your and this is for close calls in

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Speaker 1: my case, but you only take your eyes off the

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Speaker 1: road for whatever reason for a second, and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, traffic in front is ground to a halt

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Speaker 1: because of something you can't see that far ahead. It's

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Speaker 1: you know, seven or eight cars up and they've stopped

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason, and you look back and you're closing

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Speaker 1: in fast and hit the brakes and it only takes

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Speaker 1: a split second. That's that's the aim of.

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Speaker 3: This, that absolutely, And that's a really important point, Matthews,

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Speaker 3: because if you if you get fined for using a

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Speaker 3: mobile phone, you'll get a six hundred and fifty dollars

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Speaker 3: fine and three demerit points. If you're using a mobile

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Speaker 3: phone and you take your eye off road and you

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Speaker 3: hit someone and they die, you're going to jail. So

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Speaker 3: you know, the only difference between those two scenarios is luck.

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Speaker 3: And that's that's the messaging that the police are putting

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Speaker 3: out at the moment. And I have represented people charged

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Speaker 3: with death by dangerous driving for momentary inadvertence, and the

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Speaker 3: courts are coming down really hard. So you know, I

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Speaker 3: just ask people look at the big picture here, you know,

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Speaker 3: look at look at the danger that using mobile phones causes.

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Speaker 3: I currently have teenage children. We're going through the process

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Speaker 3: and teaching them how to drive. And you know, when

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Speaker 3: I'm teaching them how to drive, that suddenly there's a

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Speaker 3: realization of how much can go wrong so quickly, and

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Speaker 3: we all start out as young drivers being really careful

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Speaker 3: about what we're doing on the road. But these statistics

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Speaker 3: on the use of mobile phone and clear distractions are

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Speaker 3: really quite frightening.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a call is asking what's the difference between talking

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Speaker 1: on a two way radio and on a mobile phone.

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Speaker 3: Well, one is an offense and one is not.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so two ways are allowed.

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Speaker 3: I would need again to look at the specific legislation

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Speaker 3: because I'm not going to get on the radio and

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Speaker 3: say yes, two ways are allowed us and then finds

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Speaker 3: out that they're not. But like I say, mobile phones

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Speaker 3: are the only device where there is a specific offense

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Speaker 3: attached to the.

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Speaker 4: Use of it.

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Speaker 1: There it is. Karen, great talking with you. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for your insights.

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Speaker 3: You're very welcome.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Matthew, Karon Stanley, Stanley Law