1 00:00:03,930 --> 00:00:07,230 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. We've 2 00:00:07,230 --> 00:00:10,500 Sean Aylmer: spoken a few times recently about the business opportunities within 3 00:00:10,500 --> 00:00:13,080 Sean Aylmer: the shift to renewables and the push to hit our 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,499 Sean Aylmer: net zero targets. One of those opportunities that just keeps 5 00:00:16,500 --> 00:00:20,189 Sean Aylmer: coming up is carbon capture and storage, and already we're 6 00:00:20,190 --> 00:00:23,759 Sean Aylmer: seeing deals being done in that space. This month ASX 7 00:00:23,759 --> 00:00:28,590 Sean Aylmer: listed Nano Technology Company, Dotz Nano, D- O- T- Z, Nano, N-A- N- 8 00:00:28,590 --> 00:00:32,309 Sean Aylmer: O, signed an agreement to acquire technology that uses plastic 9 00:00:32,309 --> 00:00:36,418 Sean Aylmer: waste to capture and store CO2. The Chair of Dotz 10 00:00:36,420 --> 00:00:39,720 Sean Aylmer: Nano is a very well- known Australian businessman, Bernie Brookes 11 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,470 Sean Aylmer: AM. Bernie's got quite the CV ranging from executive director 12 00:00:43,470 --> 00:00:46,108 Sean Aylmer: at Woolworths and CEO of Myer to running other businesses 13 00:00:46,110 --> 00:00:49,440 Sean Aylmer: here and overseas, owning his own companies and working with 14 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,829 Sean Aylmer: charities like the Salvation Army. Bernie Brookes, welcome to Fear 15 00:00:52,830 --> 00:00:53,460 Sean Aylmer: and Greed. 16 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,100 Bernie Brookes: Thank you Sean. Really appreciate the opportunity to be here. 17 00:00:56,820 --> 00:00:58,590 Sean Aylmer: I want to get onto Dotz Nano, but many of us 18 00:00:58,590 --> 00:01:02,040 Sean Aylmer: know you from your Myer days. Off- air you said 19 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,200 Sean Aylmer: that, that was 2013. What have you been doing in 20 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,270 Sean Aylmer: the subsequent 10 years or so? 21 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,150 Bernie Brookes: So I spent three to four years over in Africa 22 00:01:09,150 --> 00:01:12,839 Bernie Brookes: running the largest retail group there, which was a distressed 23 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,529 Bernie Brookes: retail group. And then I also, during that time, spent 24 00:01:16,530 --> 00:01:18,480 Bernie Brookes: some time in Indonesia and India. 25 00:01:19,050 --> 00:01:19,140 Sean Aylmer: Right. 26 00:01:19,170 --> 00:01:22,828 Bernie Brookes: But more importantly, more recently I've been purchasing a couple 27 00:01:22,830 --> 00:01:26,399 Bernie Brookes: of small accessory and fashion businesses and turning them around 28 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,350 Bernie Brookes: and developing them into businesses with the help of a 29 00:01:28,350 --> 00:01:31,169 Bernie Brookes: few other ex- Myer and ex- Woolworths people. So it's 30 00:01:31,529 --> 00:01:34,380 Bernie Brookes: been a great introduction to small business after all the 31 00:01:34,380 --> 00:01:35,100 Bernie Brookes: big businesses. 32 00:01:35,310 --> 00:01:38,819 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. I'm sure that in itself as a story. I'm 33 00:01:38,819 --> 00:01:41,700 Sean Aylmer: just interested, how do you get into carbon capture and 34 00:01:41,700 --> 00:01:45,509 Sean Aylmer: storage and Dotz Nano from that retail pedigree that you have? 35 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,730 Bernie Brookes: Sure. So I'm fascinated by this technology. And I studied English 36 00:01:50,730 --> 00:01:52,830 Bernie Brookes: and history at university, so I'm not a scientist. But 37 00:01:52,860 --> 00:01:57,600 Bernie Brookes: what I did find, is this fascinating technology remarkable. And 38 00:01:57,900 --> 00:02:00,178 Bernie Brookes: it's based in Israel from a technological point of view, 39 00:02:00,179 --> 00:02:02,970 Bernie Brookes: and I think that's pretty much leading edge. And really 40 00:02:03,059 --> 00:02:06,719 Bernie Brookes: interested in the advanced carbon- based material technology. So that was 41 00:02:06,900 --> 00:02:08,580 Bernie Brookes: right in a sweet spot for me, but one that's 42 00:02:08,580 --> 00:02:11,670 Bernie Brookes: a little bit unparalleled with my previous retail work. 43 00:02:12,570 --> 00:02:15,000 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So tell us about Dotz Nano, what is it exactly? 44 00:02:15,570 --> 00:02:20,398 Bernie Brookes: So it's a technology leader that specializes in advanced carbon- 45 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,659 Bernie Brookes: based materials. And that material has some fantastic qualities that 46 00:02:24,660 --> 00:02:30,180 Bernie Brookes: make it suitable for tracing, anti- counterfeiting, product liability solutions, 47 00:02:30,210 --> 00:02:35,160 Bernie Brookes: brands, and for manufacturers, advanced security markers, which is an end- to- 48 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:40,979 Bernie Brookes: end solution for everything from lubricants, chemicals, cannabis plants, all 49 00:02:40,980 --> 00:02:44,430 Bernie Brookes: giving the opportunity to be traceable. The second part is 50 00:02:44,550 --> 00:02:46,650 Bernie Brookes: in the bio space, so is what we call Dotz' 51 00:02:46,650 --> 00:02:50,669 Bernie Brookes: Bio, which is detection of things such as COVID, with 52 00:02:50,669 --> 00:02:55,080 Bernie Brookes: COVID test kits. And also gene therapy for bioprocessing. And 53 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,079 Bernie Brookes: then the part that we're now talking about, is what 54 00:02:58,079 --> 00:03:01,470 Bernie Brookes: we call Dotz Enhance, which is CO2 capture reduction. So 55 00:03:01,470 --> 00:03:06,330 Bernie Brookes: it's a carbon nano sorbent that can absorb CO2 from flu 56 00:03:06,330 --> 00:03:10,710 Bernie Brookes: gas, as an example. Anti- stokes materials for the self- 57 00:03:10,710 --> 00:03:13,709 Bernie Brookes: cooling of buildings and vehicles. And that gives us a 58 00:03:13,710 --> 00:03:16,949 Bernie Brookes: great opportunity with the new H2 Blue technology that we've 59 00:03:16,949 --> 00:03:20,579 Bernie Brookes: acquired, to actually capture and store carbon. 60 00:03:22,110 --> 00:03:25,620 Sean Aylmer: Okay. I feel like I'm a year six child in 61 00:03:25,620 --> 00:03:31,319 Sean Aylmer: a year 12 chemistry class here. The actual technology itself. 62 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,440 Sean Aylmer: So let's talk about carbon capture and storage, just break 63 00:03:34,500 --> 00:03:37,680 Sean Aylmer: that down. So what's the new technology you've acquired and 64 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,070 Sean Aylmer: what does it do for my year six size chemistry 65 00:03:41,070 --> 00:03:42,150 Sean Aylmer: brain here, Bernie, please? 66 00:03:42,780 --> 00:03:45,119 Bernie Brookes: No, that's fine. And remember I said I was English 67 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:53,039 Bernie Brookes: and history, so it's a lot easier talking in that space. So it's a proprietary and patented method of 68 00:03:53,039 --> 00:03:58,200 Bernie Brookes: converting plastic waste to carbon- based adsorbents for the sole 69 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,470 Bernie Brookes: purpose of CO2 capture and storage. So in other words, 70 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,190 Bernie Brookes: imagine putting some Dotz equipment on top of a flu 71 00:04:05,190 --> 00:04:07,710 Bernie Brookes: gas with a lot of carbon coming out of it- 72 00:04:07,710 --> 00:04:08,040 Sean Aylmer: Emissions. 73 00:04:08,250 --> 00:04:10,680 Bernie Brookes: CO2 coming out of it. And what it then does, 74 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,760 Bernie Brookes: it captures it, it creates it with our special sauce into a 75 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,969 Bernie Brookes: sorbent, and that sorbent can then be stored in non- 76 00:04:17,970 --> 00:04:21,330 Bernie Brookes: recyclable plastics. So it has the double whammy of using non- 77 00:04:21,330 --> 00:04:25,380 Bernie Brookes: recyclable plastic, but also storing carbon. And as we know, 78 00:04:25,380 --> 00:04:29,039 Bernie Brookes: carbon capture is very topical at the moment. And so it 79 00:04:29,039 --> 00:04:30,659 Bernie Brookes: is the next phase from our point of view, and 80 00:04:30,660 --> 00:04:34,440 Bernie Brookes: it's backed by a number of world- renowned technologies that 81 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,260 Bernie Brookes: I'm sure I can talk about. But it's one of 82 00:04:37,260 --> 00:04:39,959 Bernie Brookes: many ways to capture CO2, but it's the way that 83 00:04:40,050 --> 00:04:45,150 Bernie Brookes: H2 Blue have developed it, making it more environmentally sustainable, cost- 84 00:04:45,150 --> 00:04:50,068 Bernie Brookes: effective and certainly applicable and scalable going forward throughout the world. 85 00:04:50,610 --> 00:04:52,710 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So I'm just going to keep the analogy going. 86 00:04:52,710 --> 00:04:58,888 Sean Aylmer: So you've captured the carbon and it's a sorbent, which 87 00:04:58,889 --> 00:05:01,080 Sean Aylmer: means you can literally bury that or inject it into 88 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:02,879 Sean Aylmer: the ground again, that's the storage part of it? 89 00:05:03,690 --> 00:05:05,669 Bernie Brookes: You can store it anywhere in any way you want. 90 00:05:06,269 --> 00:05:09,000 Bernie Brookes: It stores in a much more smaller form, in the 91 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,300 Bernie Brookes: form of a sorbent. And that enables obviously such things 92 00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:15,690 Bernie Brookes: as carbon trading as that develops more and more, as 93 00:05:15,690 --> 00:05:18,539 Bernie Brookes: well as CO2 capture. It can be released at any time 94 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,960 Bernie Brookes: by using a means and also using a heating. But 95 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,959 Bernie Brookes: generally it actually captures and takes it away from going 96 00:05:24,959 --> 00:05:25,680 Bernie Brookes: into the atmosphere. 97 00:05:26,700 --> 00:05:28,650 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Bernie. We'll be back in a minute. 98 00:05:34,589 --> 00:05:37,410 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Bernie Brookes AM, Chair of 99 00:05:37,410 --> 00:05:42,209 Sean Aylmer: Dotz Nano. Okay. Now carbon capture and storage is something 100 00:05:42,209 --> 00:05:44,580 Sean Aylmer: that we've heard a lot more... In fact the previous 101 00:05:44,580 --> 00:05:47,609 Sean Aylmer: coalition government under Tony Abbate, I think originally spoke a 102 00:05:47,610 --> 00:05:50,669 Sean Aylmer: lot about CCS. It went off the radar a bit. 103 00:05:51,029 --> 00:05:54,540 Sean Aylmer: More recent times it has certainly gotten a lot of 104 00:05:54,540 --> 00:05:56,969 Sean Aylmer: attention simply because a lot of the big emitters saying, 105 00:05:56,969 --> 00:06:00,119 Sean Aylmer: unless you do carbon captures in storage, you don't get 106 00:06:00,119 --> 00:06:01,738 Sean Aylmer: to net zero eventually or you don't get to our 107 00:06:01,740 --> 00:06:04,350 Sean Aylmer: targets for 2030. How big is the opportunity here? 108 00:06:06,029 --> 00:06:12,059 Bernie Brookes: Yeah, it's enormous. According to the Global CO2 Organization, it's 109 00:06:12,059 --> 00:06:16,259 Bernie Brookes: nearly a 1. 2 trillion opportunity for revenue to reduce 110 00:06:16,260 --> 00:06:19,859 Bernie Brookes: CO2 emissions by only 15%. So you can imagine if we wanted 111 00:06:19,860 --> 00:06:22,680 Bernie Brookes: to go further than 15%. So if I look at 112 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:24,630 Bernie Brookes: it from, let's call it the size of the prize 113 00:06:24,630 --> 00:06:28,349 Bernie Brookes: or the financials, it's an enormous opportunity. And I think 114 00:06:28,349 --> 00:06:31,289 Bernie Brookes: the reason it's become a little bit less prevalent in 115 00:06:31,290 --> 00:06:35,939 Bernie Brookes: the press and with the governments, the technology is still at an 116 00:06:35,940 --> 00:06:39,510 Bernie Brookes: infancy stage. All carbon capture technologies are still at an 117 00:06:39,510 --> 00:06:42,270 Bernie Brookes: infancy stage. And so therefore we all know it's a 118 00:06:42,270 --> 00:06:45,570 Bernie Brookes: two to three year program, maybe even five years, to 119 00:06:45,570 --> 00:06:48,479 Bernie Brookes: be able to fully develop and use methods of carbon 120 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,029 Bernie Brookes: capture such as this one. And so the long runway 121 00:06:51,029 --> 00:06:53,160 Bernie Brookes: is not appealing to a lot of people, because I 122 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,919 Bernie Brookes: think governments have a short space of time of being in office. 123 00:06:55,919 --> 00:06:59,460 Bernie Brookes: So therefore, they're not that attuned to something that has a long tail. 124 00:06:59,460 --> 00:07:02,370 Bernie Brookes: But there's an inevitability that this is going to become 125 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,910 Bernie Brookes: a very significant part of the future. Because you said 126 00:07:05,910 --> 00:07:10,559 Bernie Brookes: the emitters of large CO2 have a variety of options, 127 00:07:10,559 --> 00:07:13,980 Bernie Brookes: but they've got a huge environmental footprint, they've got a lot 128 00:07:13,980 --> 00:07:16,800 Bernie Brookes: of emissions, and the only way you can compensate for 129 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,460 Bernie Brookes: those is with capture technologies. And so ours has got 130 00:07:20,460 --> 00:07:23,490 Bernie Brookes: some unique traits to it that make it very attractive. 131 00:07:23,490 --> 00:07:24,869 Bernie Brookes: And there is a lot of interest already by a 132 00:07:24,870 --> 00:07:26,939 Bernie Brookes: lot of industrial companies throughout the world 133 00:07:27,540 --> 00:07:30,090 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Just before we leave the role of government in 134 00:07:30,090 --> 00:07:33,720 Sean Aylmer: that. The government hasn't put money into carbon capture and storage 135 00:07:34,170 --> 00:07:36,240 Sean Aylmer: as yet, and they didn't put anything in the previous 136 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:37,980 Sean Aylmer: budget. The other thing you said five years, but now 137 00:07:37,980 --> 00:07:41,550 Sean Aylmer: hydrogen technology and all that, that's got a long runway 138 00:07:41,790 --> 00:07:45,179 Sean Aylmer: as well. Is it something that we need better cooperation 139 00:07:45,179 --> 00:07:48,270 Sean Aylmer: between business and government to get this done, be it 140 00:07:48,270 --> 00:07:49,740 Sean Aylmer: CCS or anything else? 141 00:07:50,820 --> 00:07:53,880 Bernie Brookes: Well, I think in signing the French Accord, the scenario 142 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,300 Bernie Brookes: is that we've agreed to emissions. And so the problem 143 00:07:57,300 --> 00:08:00,239 Bernie Brookes: is the runway to get to those emissions has a 144 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,419 Bernie Brookes: variety of ways, the way in which we manage garbage 145 00:08:03,420 --> 00:08:05,639 Bernie Brookes: right the way through to the way things are made. 146 00:08:05,639 --> 00:08:10,800 Bernie Brookes: But inevitably there's still got to be a CO2 carbon technology. And 147 00:08:10,830 --> 00:08:13,290 Bernie Brookes: my readings from around the world is that there's a 148 00:08:13,290 --> 00:08:16,768 Bernie Brookes: lot more advanced support from governments around the rest of 149 00:08:16,770 --> 00:08:19,410 Bernie Brookes: the world, and business and government gets together. There's actually 150 00:08:19,650 --> 00:08:24,689 Bernie Brookes: a whole association with CO2 carbon capture. And this business, H2 151 00:08:24,719 --> 00:08:27,810 Bernie Brookes: Blue for example, has already had some government support in 152 00:08:27,810 --> 00:08:31,350 Bernie Brookes: Canada with some provision of support, to be able to 153 00:08:31,350 --> 00:08:34,380 Bernie Brookes: get it off the ground. And Israel government as well 154 00:08:34,380 --> 00:08:36,330 Bernie Brookes: has been highly supportive of a lot of industries. So 155 00:08:36,330 --> 00:08:38,730 Bernie Brookes: I think if we want to meet the targets that 156 00:08:38,730 --> 00:08:42,449 Bernie Brookes: we've got, there's no choice but to capture CO2. And therefore 157 00:08:42,449 --> 00:08:44,160 Bernie Brookes: if the government want to meet their target, then there 158 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,790 Bernie Brookes: has to be some involvement from the government supporting industry 159 00:08:47,790 --> 00:08:49,080 Bernie Brookes: to be able to do exactly that. 160 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,349 Sean Aylmer: Israel technology is second to none in many ways, in 161 00:08:55,349 --> 00:08:58,289 Sean Aylmer: many areas at least. Is Israel a leader in this? 162 00:08:58,289 --> 00:09:01,679 Sean Aylmer: Where should Australia be looking towards in terms of government and 163 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,189 Sean Aylmer: business working together to achieve these sorts of goals? 164 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,929 Bernie Brookes: So this technology was developed by Dr. James Tour of 165 00:09:09,929 --> 00:09:13,349 Bernie Brookes: Rice University in the States, and he coincidentally is the 166 00:09:13,349 --> 00:09:17,550 Bernie Brookes: founder of Weebit, which is another Australian listed company. And 167 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:22,110 Bernie Brookes: that's also been checked and characterized by what's called SynTech, 168 00:09:22,110 --> 00:09:26,069 Bernie Brookes: which is the largest independent research organization. And so why 169 00:09:26,070 --> 00:09:29,490 Bernie Brookes: I mentioned both Europe and the US, is that they're 170 00:09:29,550 --> 00:09:32,430 Bernie Brookes: a much more advanced in the way forward. And so 171 00:09:32,759 --> 00:09:35,850 Bernie Brookes: Israel has become, let's call it the party that brings 172 00:09:35,850 --> 00:09:39,598 Bernie Brookes: them together. But the technologies are adopted from and checked from 173 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,540 Bernie Brookes: both Europe and the US. And there is an enormous 174 00:09:42,630 --> 00:09:46,500 Bernie Brookes: challenge in emitters, particularly in the mid- US, of being 175 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:49,799 Bernie Brookes: able to capture their carbon. And so therefore there's an 176 00:09:49,799 --> 00:09:52,799 Bernie Brookes: active interest and the government have of course a system 177 00:09:52,799 --> 00:09:56,160 Bernie Brookes: of levy, that they call a tax system that encourages 178 00:09:56,219 --> 00:09:59,429 Bernie Brookes: companies to actually capture it. And similarly in Europe, those 179 00:09:59,429 --> 00:10:02,728 Bernie Brookes: targets can be quite punitive if you don't reach your 180 00:10:02,730 --> 00:10:05,699 Bernie Brookes: emission targets. So I think Australia has not yet moved 181 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:08,759 Bernie Brookes: to that phase, but it seems inevitable that this will 182 00:10:08,759 --> 00:10:10,559 Bernie Brookes: be the way forward for Australia as well, if we 183 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,599 Bernie Brookes: want to play a part in the bigger community. 184 00:10:14,010 --> 00:10:17,010 Sean Aylmer: Bernie, while I've got you, I can't not at least 185 00:10:17,010 --> 00:10:20,309 Sean Aylmer: ask about retailing and how you see retailing post- COVID. 186 00:10:20,309 --> 00:10:24,059 Sean Aylmer: You said you still have interests in some smaller retailers 187 00:10:24,059 --> 00:10:27,569 Sean Aylmer: here. How has it changed post- COVID? 188 00:10:28,259 --> 00:10:32,700 Bernie Brookes: So I've just spent the last month overseas and attending the World Retail 189 00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:34,500 Bernie Brookes: Congress, so I could probably answer that with a bit 190 00:10:34,500 --> 00:10:38,640 Bernie Brookes: more authority than off the cuff. But I think firstly, 191 00:10:39,059 --> 00:10:41,940 Bernie Brookes: there's no doubt that there is a continued move still 192 00:10:41,940 --> 00:10:44,759 Bernie Brookes: to the digital age. And it's reached a point where 193 00:10:44,759 --> 00:10:48,480 Bernie Brookes: digital is now as high as 24% in the UK, 194 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,360 Bernie Brookes: as an example. So the first trend is that continued 195 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,230 Bernie Brookes: digital move in Australia and overseas. The second is the ESG 196 00:10:55,230 --> 00:10:59,610 Bernie Brookes: component. There's an enormous push for providers of everything from 197 00:10:59,610 --> 00:11:03,299 Bernie Brookes: denim to food manufacturers to have an environmental and social 198 00:11:03,299 --> 00:11:06,149 Bernie Brookes: consciousness, and we're seeing that. And I think the other 199 00:11:06,179 --> 00:11:09,090 Bernie Brookes: change that's taken place is, I've just spent the last two weeks 200 00:11:09,090 --> 00:11:12,750 Bernie Brookes: in China, and an inevitability, the Chinese are certainly hurting 201 00:11:12,750 --> 00:11:15,328 Bernie Brookes: as volume comes off from the Northern Hemisphere. And so 202 00:11:15,330 --> 00:11:19,139 Bernie Brookes: we're seeing availability of product quite strong now in Australia 203 00:11:19,139 --> 00:11:23,549 Bernie Brookes: from China. But generally retailers are finding a downturn, particularly 204 00:11:23,549 --> 00:11:26,458 Bernie Brookes: over the last two to three months, as the savings 205 00:11:26,460 --> 00:11:30,360 Bernie Brookes: rate runs out that we saved tremendously during the period 206 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,639 Bernie Brookes: of what was going on with COVID. And then added 207 00:11:32,639 --> 00:11:35,550 Bernie Brookes: to that, we had of course the government support and 208 00:11:35,550 --> 00:11:37,858 Bernie Brookes: that's run out. And then added to that, of course 209 00:11:37,860 --> 00:11:40,649 Bernie Brookes: we've got the high inflation rate, the cost of energy 210 00:11:40,708 --> 00:11:45,328 Bernie Brookes: and mortgage rates. And so therefore the disposable income is 211 00:11:45,330 --> 00:11:48,510 Bernie Brookes: suffering dramatically. And I think all retailers are moving from 212 00:11:48,510 --> 00:11:51,150 Bernie Brookes: a positive territory, and I think the majority are now 213 00:11:51,150 --> 00:11:53,730 Bernie Brookes: budgeting for negative territory over the next three to six 214 00:11:53,730 --> 00:11:56,160 Bernie Brookes: months. The only exception, of course, is the food guys. 215 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,920 Bernie Brookes: And what they're seeing is a downtrading to lower cuts of 216 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:03,478 Bernie Brookes: meat and a downtrading to what you really would call a 217 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,600 Bernie Brookes: generic product. So it's not a particularly good environment. I 218 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,179 Bernie Brookes: think the outcome between now and the next six to 219 00:12:09,179 --> 00:12:11,279 Bernie Brookes: nine months is going to be very difficult, and I 220 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,230 Bernie Brookes: think we will see a lot of stress in that 221 00:12:13,230 --> 00:12:14,040 Bernie Brookes: retail sector. 222 00:12:14,670 --> 00:12:16,380 Sean Aylmer: Bernie, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 223 00:12:16,949 --> 00:12:17,699 Bernie Brookes: You're more than welcome. 224 00:12:18,420 --> 00:12:21,630 Sean Aylmer: That was Bernie Brookes AM, Chair of Dotz Nano. This 225 00:12:21,630 --> 00:12:23,819 Sean Aylmer: is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Join us every 226 00:12:23,820 --> 00:12:26,070 Sean Aylmer: morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's 227 00:12:26,070 --> 00:12:29,340 Sean Aylmer: most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.