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Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land

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Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced, the Galligle people of

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Speaker 1: the orination. We pay our respects to elders past and present.

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Speaker 2: It's twenty eleven and we're in the back of an

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Speaker 2: ambulance with two paramedics and one incredibly nervous Sally Guld

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Speaker 2: halfway through her paramedicine degree. This is her first shift.

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Speaker 2: She watches on as her superiors perform an impressive and

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Speaker 2: almost choreographed dance to try and save a young man

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Speaker 2: who's had a cardiac arrest. She's relieved to be an

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Speaker 2: onlooker today and is quietly confident, understanding most of the

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Speaker 2: lingo thanks to paying attention in lectures and binge watching scrubs.

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Speaker 2: A few years on, and it's Sally who's calling the

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Speaker 2: shots and saving lives, a responsibility she doesn't take lightly.

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Speaker 2: She's giving everything to her job, but obsession takes over.

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Speaker 2: Thoughts of the next shift start to creep into every

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Speaker 2: spare moment. At just twenty three years old, Sally is

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Speaker 2: already at breaking point. I'm at Middleton and this is

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Speaker 2: headgame today, a war of insight into how it feels

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Speaker 2: to be brought into people's lives at their worst hour. Sally,

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Speaker 2: you've certainly been put in some situations where you've required

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Speaker 2: to really lose your head and use everything that you've

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Speaker 2: got to not only survive, but to be able to

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Speaker 2: fight to work another day. How old were you when

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Speaker 2: you first realized that your father was saving lives?

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Speaker 3: I have very early memories, maybe as a six year old,

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Speaker 3: of knowing what he did for a job, but having

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Speaker 3: no concept of what that really meant. I understood from

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Speaker 3: what people said to him that his job was unique,

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Speaker 3: that not everyone could do that job or did that job.

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Speaker 3: And I also knew from what people said that his

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Speaker 3: job was really gross. And I heard a lot about that,

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Speaker 3: how hard it was, how gross it was, and so

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Speaker 3: I just think I adopted that as a child, like, oh,

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Speaker 3: dad's job is so gross.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And was there many moments of like stress where you know,

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Speaker 2: you'd notice that he would come in and be, you know,

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Speaker 2: sort of he's had a bad day or he's you know,

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Speaker 2: was there any moments where as a youngster and as

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Speaker 2: your upbringing where you thought yourself, what does my dad

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Speaker 2: actually do?

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Speaker 3: I think I was incredibly well buffered by Mum and

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Speaker 3: Dad from the realities of the work. They made sure

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Speaker 3: that Dad left work at work and that when he

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Speaker 3: came home, I just remember him as dad.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: He'd bring us treats from the hospital canteen. He'd play

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Speaker 3: fun games, the wrestle tumble, all those things that dads do.

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Speaker 3: And I have that memory of him, which I'm very

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Speaker 3: grateful for, because I know it's incredibly hard from my

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Speaker 3: own experience, to be able to leave work at work

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Speaker 3: and to come home just as a parent, you know,

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Speaker 3: and not bring all of the stuff from work home.

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Speaker 3: I think the thing that made my childhood maybe a

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Speaker 3: little bit different was the stories that Dad told around

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Speaker 3: the dinner table. Even though he sheltered me from the

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Speaker 3: reality of the maybe the mental struggle of doing a

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Speaker 3: job black paramedicine, he didn't really hold back on sharing

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Speaker 3: the gross stories at the table, so I think he'd

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Speaker 3: come home with what he was telling in quite a

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Speaker 3: humorous way. Were stories that probably weren't overly appropriate for

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Speaker 3: us as kids at the age that we were.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but I enjoyed them.

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Speaker 3: I loved them, and I fell in love with you know,

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Speaker 3: hearing about those stories, but also hearing about how calmly

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Speaker 3: and confidently my dad had managed the situations. And that's

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Speaker 3: when I started to gain an appreciation for the fact

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Speaker 3: that he could turn a situation where most people run scream,

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Speaker 3: panic into one where he said, well, no, it was easy.

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Speaker 3: I just did what I was trained to do, and

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Speaker 3: everyone was okay.

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Speaker 4: In the end.

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Speaker 2: What was you thinking about when you were growing up

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Speaker 2: and going through school, going through education, When did you decide, right,

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Speaker 2: this is what I want to do.

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Speaker 3: I think as a teenager, I had that classic mentality

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Speaker 3: of oh, I'm not going to do what dads already done.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to follow in his footsteps. I want

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Speaker 3: to create my own path. And I felt very strongly

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Speaker 3: about that. But unfortunately, or fortunately, I narrowed down my

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Speaker 3: career choices as a sixteen year old to that medical field.

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Speaker 3: So I was looking at psychology, I was looking at medicine,

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Speaker 3: I was looking at nursing, but none of them really

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Speaker 3: had all the draw cards that I was after, you know,

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Speaker 3: the changing scenery, the being outside, the unpredictability, the range

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Speaker 3: of patients, and I sort of almost just admitted to

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Speaker 3: myself in defeat, oh, I think I want to do paramedicine.

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Speaker 4: Exactly like dad did.

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Speaker 2: And I suppose, like you said, you know from the stories,

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Speaker 2: I think this is really interesting and how mouldible you

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Speaker 2: are as a child, you know that becoming the norm?

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Speaker 2: Did it just make sense to you that do you

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Speaker 2: know what this is? This is what I'm destined to do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there was a point at which I didn't know

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Speaker 3: if I had the ability to do the job. I

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Speaker 3: didn't know if I was going to love it, but

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Speaker 3: I just had this incredible drive like that's what I'm

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Speaker 3: going to do. That's what I'm supposed to do. Let's

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Speaker 3: go for it.

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Speaker 2: And did you have a proud dad that was pushing

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Speaker 2: you on? He like, yes, go and do it? Or

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Speaker 2: was he because I know that parents can be quite

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Speaker 2: standoffish because I know my son wants to join the military,

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Speaker 2: right and I'm sort of like, you know, I've been there,

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Speaker 2: you don't really you know it. Was it a proud

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Speaker 2: father moment or was he quite dubious about it?

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Speaker 3: I think he took the same approach that you're taking,

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Speaker 3: is that he was very aware that it was my

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Speaker 3: path and my decision. And now I can reflect back

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Speaker 3: that he understood very much that the job could hold

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Speaker 3: so much joy, and he didn't want to hold me

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Speaker 3: back from that, But he also knew that the job

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Speaker 3: could hold so much trauma and it had the potential

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Speaker 3: damage me, and so he really sat quietly and supported

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Speaker 3: what I was doing, but certainly didn't offer any advice

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Speaker 3: of whether I should or shouldn't. He was just sort

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Speaker 3: of the quiet in the background, like, if that's what

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Speaker 3: you want to do, go for it. And now I

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Speaker 3: understand it's hard to look at a child and want

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Speaker 3: them to go into a profession that you know carries

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Speaker 3: all the exposure to trauma.

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Speaker 2: So how young were you, because this is quite you

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Speaker 2: entered the trade quite young. How young with you you?

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Speaker 2: And what was how long was the training and what

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Speaker 2: was the training like?

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Speaker 3: So I had a gap year after school and moved

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Speaker 3: away to earn some money, and then went straight into

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Speaker 3: the university degree and lived on campus there to study.

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Speaker 3: I did an accelerated version, which meant I only had

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Speaker 3: two years at UNI, and then I was straight on

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Speaker 3: road as a twenty one year old, so very little

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Speaker 3: life experience straight out of high school straight into UNI.

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Speaker 3: Not a lot of living done, I guess, And yeah,

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Speaker 3: twenty one years old, I pulled on that uniform for

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Speaker 3: the first time.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you, no living done.

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Speaker 4: You think you've done the living? You know you have it,

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Speaker 4: you haven't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in your head, you're like, oh, I'm twenty one

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Speaker 2: years old.

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Speaker 4: I know everything. I know exactly what to expect.

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Speaker 2: And you know nothing. So you said you went on

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Speaker 2: the accelerated court. Is that because you obviously took to

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Speaker 2: it really well, and obviously you know with the background

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Speaker 2: of your father and the knowledge that you'd probably already ascertained.

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Speaker 2: Was it How did you find the accelerated course? You

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Speaker 2: find it challenging or did it come naturally to you?

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Speaker 3: I think it was a new program the UNI was offering,

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Speaker 3: and I was I knew as soon as I could

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Speaker 3: get on road, it felt to me that that was

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Speaker 3: where the real learning was going to happen. And we

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Speaker 3: did a placement within the university course on road where

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Speaker 3: you're third up on a car, you have no responsibility,

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Speaker 3: but you're able to watch the paramedics in action. And

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Speaker 3: that was only three weeks, and I think it was

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Speaker 3: the best three weeks of my life I've ever had.

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Speaker 3: And from that moment, I didn't want to go back

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Speaker 3: to UNI. I just wanted to get on road so

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Speaker 3: badly because I could just see how much I'd grown

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Speaker 3: in three weeks, and I just I just wanted to

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Speaker 3: be there already.

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Speaker 4: I was very impatient.

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Speaker 2: Wow, And you're exactly right. When you're thrust into it

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Speaker 2: and you're you're forced to act and you're forced to

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Speaker 2: to sort of lean back on your training and the

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Speaker 2: little of it that you had, you grow so quickly.

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Speaker 2: Take me back to that moment when you thought yourself, right,

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Speaker 2: I just want to be on the road. You know,

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Speaker 2: were you you? You? You're just a couple of weeks

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Speaker 2: into your into your training.

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Speaker 4: I think it was the first day of my ride

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Speaker 4: along on road and I've been.

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Speaker 2: Popped into the very first day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, as a ride along, I fell in love with

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Speaker 3: the job. I already knew that I was, I was

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Speaker 3: getting an interest in it. But from the moment I

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Speaker 3: stepped forward in the ambulance they shut me into the back,

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Speaker 3: we raced off to a cardiac arrest, and I just

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Speaker 3: watched these paramedics with such poise, calm control, and I

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Speaker 3: just thought, I have to do this job. I have

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Speaker 3: to do this job.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow. So the passion was that you knew the

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Speaker 2: passion was there, you knew what you wanted to do,

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Speaker 2: and what was your What were you thinking when you

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Speaker 2: actually saw the paramedics jump into action on that very

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Speaker 2: first day that you were widing along, because obviously you

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Speaker 2: were there to observe, to take it all into I

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Speaker 2: suppose this is a super important moment two of realization

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Speaker 2: if you want to do the job or not, because

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Speaker 2: this is what you're going to be doing, saving lives.

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Speaker 2: So wow, to have that moment of this is what

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Speaker 2: I want to do, that's that's you sort of know

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Speaker 2: that that's your career path, right Yeah.

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Speaker 4: But don't get me wrong.

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Speaker 3: I didn't at that point have any real knowledge of

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Speaker 3: weather or proof whether I could do the job or not.

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Speaker 3: And I was still very grateful that I was just

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Speaker 3: a spectator, you know. I had the luxury of watching

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Speaker 3: it all unfold and being impressed by it and dreaming

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Speaker 3: that one day I'd have the skills and the experience

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Speaker 3: to be there. But it was more just watching their

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Speaker 3: ability to transform chaos into an ordered scene that just

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Speaker 3: attracted me so much.

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Speaker 4: To that role.

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Speaker 2: And what do you think, you know, because obviously the

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Speaker 2: passion and you being attracted, what do you think of

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Speaker 2: the attributes that are required for you for a paramedic

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Speaker 2: to not like, not like you said, knowing if you

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Speaker 2: can do it, but knowing that you want to do it.

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Speaker 2: That the passion that you had from that very first

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Speaker 2: ride along. What do you think, you know, made you

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Speaker 2: really really want to do the job.

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Speaker 3: I think it's the combination of skills that you need

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Speaker 3: for the job is such a unique skill set. It's

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Speaker 3: not that you need to be the smartest person, the

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Speaker 3: fittest person, but you need a little bit of everything.

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Speaker 3: You know, you need the ability to be strong enough

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Speaker 3: to carry the gear, but agile enough to get yourself

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Speaker 3: into these ridiculous situations. You need to be smart enough

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Speaker 3: to know all about the body and the medications and

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Speaker 3: all the conditions you're seeing. But you need to have

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Speaker 3: this sense of humor to just be able to laugh

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Speaker 3: at off with your mates after. Like, it's just this

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Speaker 3: ridiculous skill set that you need to be okay with

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Speaker 3: getting rained on, spat on, you know, yelled at all

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Speaker 3: the things, and then I don't know, just be able

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Speaker 3: to find the resilience to turn back up to work

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Speaker 3: the next day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like you said, it's almost as well, you know,

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Speaker 2: is that humor in the face of adversity that we

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Speaker 2: use in the military as well, being able to you know,

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Speaker 2: because you experienced such you know, negative things and you

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Speaker 2: know potentially traumatic situations. I don't know if it exists

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Speaker 2: in the paramedic world, but it certainly does in the military.

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Speaker 2: There's that dark humor. It does help, though, doesn't it,

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Speaker 2: Because to be able to sort of find a bit

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Speaker 2: of humor in the face of adversity, that's super important.

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Speaker 3: It's essential. It's essential to carrying on in the job

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Speaker 3: and to turning up with a good attitude the next day.

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Speaker 3: And paramedics I think are known for our horrifically dark

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Speaker 3: of humor a lot of the time, which often isn't

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Speaker 3: appreciated by the general public.

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Speaker 4: But the job we're doing.

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Speaker 3: You know, life is funny, and if we don't laugh

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Speaker 3: about it, you know, we probably cry about it.

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Speaker 2: So let's laugh about it. If you don't laugh about it,

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Speaker 2: all you will do is cry about it. Take me

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Speaker 2: back to the very first day that you were on shift.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're fully qualified, You get the call out

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Speaker 2: and where you go. Do you remember that very first

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Speaker 2: day where you had to then take charge?

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Speaker 3: You feel like an impost from that moment you put

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Speaker 3: on the uniform and you realize it's only you and

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Speaker 3: your partner, and you become very grateful for that partner

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Speaker 3: sitting beside you. And I had a lovely training officer

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Speaker 3: who was very supportive, very competent on his own, and

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Speaker 3: he had the space and the kindness to give me

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Speaker 3: the room to learn. I distinctly remember one job we

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Speaker 3: went to very early in my training, and it was

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Speaker 3: in the middle of the night, and it was three am,

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Speaker 3: and you're trying to peel your eyes open and they're

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Speaker 3: stinging in the cold night air. And this woman that

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Speaker 3: we attended was on death story and I went into

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Speaker 3: the house. I looked at her and the only thought

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Speaker 3: I could muster was, Oh, she looks like she's about

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Speaker 3: to die. And then my mind was blank. There was

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Speaker 3: nothing else there. And I just hadn't yet finessed the

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Speaker 3: ability to access all that training that I'd done. And

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Speaker 3: my partner sprung into action. He knew exactly what to do.

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Speaker 3: He was treating her, helping her feel better, doing all

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Speaker 3: the right things, and it just took me a beat

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Speaker 3: to sort of get my head in the game, you know,

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Speaker 3: to go, oh, that's what's wrong with her. That's what

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Speaker 3: we need to do. And from that moment, you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm back on I'm able to move swiftly. I'm on

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Speaker 3: the same team as my partner. We're working together. And

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Speaker 3: afterwards I reflected to him and I said, oh, how

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Speaker 3: did you know what it was so quickly? And how

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Speaker 3: did you, you know, manage it so confidently? And he

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Speaker 3: was so humble. It was sort of like, oh, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, you know, it's just part of the job.

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Speaker 3: But that's what it was. He's done the job, he's

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Speaker 3: done the years he's seen those patients, until I'd built

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Speaker 3: up that repertoire and the ability to access that training

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Speaker 3: in a car manner. You know, I just need to

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Speaker 3: do that. I needed the time and the exposure until

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Speaker 3: I would reach that point. But there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: those where you just you feel lost, you don't know

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Speaker 3: where to go next. You're giving those help me eyes

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Speaker 3: to your partner, like what do we do next? What's

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Speaker 3: this about? And they're just calmly guiding you through. And

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Speaker 3: I think that's the beauty of our job and the

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Speaker 3: way we mentor as our colleagues. You know, you're sharing

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Speaker 3: that huge vast body of experience until the people have,

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Speaker 3: you know, a body of experience of their own to

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Speaker 3: bring to each patient. And I think you do the

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Speaker 3: training at university and that's great. The simulations are super important,

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Speaker 3: but you just can't get the fidelity of the real

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Speaker 3: life stuff. You know, the darkness, the dog that's sparking

300
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Speaker 3: at you, the relative screaming at you, the rain that's

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Speaker 3: pouring out of the sky, all those things, you just

302
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Speaker 3: can't simulate those. So when you're trying to draw on

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Speaker 3: that knowledge that you've practiced in a controlled environment into

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Speaker 3: all these uncontrolled environments, I think that's where the challenge comes.

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Speaker 3: And with the real experience is where you get your fluency.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And you know there's so many similarities to

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Speaker 2: the military. How hard was that because to be able

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Speaker 2: to just take away those distractions And was there a

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Speaker 2: moment that of calmness that you realized through that exposure

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Speaker 2: repetition that you realized to know what hyper focus on

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Speaker 2: the job and to ignore the distractions because at first,

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Speaker 2: I suppose with yourselves, that's something that can affect you

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Speaker 2: the way you function and operate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's certainly hard to split your focus between that

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Speaker 3: situational awareness and a task that might take all of

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Speaker 3: your attention because it's a high level or high risk

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Speaker 3: procedure that you're doing, or it's a skill that you've

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Speaker 3: just learned or one you're doing for the first time.

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Speaker 3: So I think that's why we work really well in

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Speaker 3: our partnership. We're always paired with another paramedic and sometimes

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Speaker 3: if I've got officer surroundings and I'm on the patient,

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Speaker 3: you know they're doing the scanning of the situation to

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Speaker 3: make sure that both both bases are covered. But as

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Speaker 3: the more you do in the job, the better you

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Speaker 3: get it being able to do both simultaneously. But there

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Speaker 3: are some jobs where you just need your mates to

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Speaker 3: have your can be looking out for other stuff that

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Speaker 3: you haven't noticed yet.

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Speaker 2: And how hard is it to you because I know,

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Speaker 2: you know, having done a small bit of medical training,

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Speaker 2: I know you know when you get onto the scene,

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Speaker 2: you've got to make sure there's nothing that's going to

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Speaker 2: threaten you. But time is crucial, you know, seconds to

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Speaker 2: save a life. You know seconds count, minutes count. You

335
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Speaker 2: know how hard was it for you not to just

336
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Speaker 2: get carried away with seeing someone that needed your help,

337
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,880
Speaker 2: that needed their lives saving and you know, taking that

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Speaker 2: little step back and assessing a situation before you dive

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Speaker 2: in head first, right.

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Speaker 3: I think as a junior paramedic that that urge to

341
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Speaker 3: step in before it's safe is huge. But the training

342
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:48,080
Speaker 3: is so good, i'd say, in assuring that we consider

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Speaker 3: our safety first. So these days I have no qualms

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Speaker 3: in making sure I'm safe and my team is safe

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Speaker 3: before we head in, regardless of what's happening inside. Because

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Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I want me and

347
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Speaker 3: my colleagues to be going home to their family, and

348
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Speaker 3: that's my number one priority. If everything's safe in order,

349
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Speaker 3: I can do my job a lot better.

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Speaker 2: What was it like losing your first patient? How hard

351
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Speaker 2: was that to process? And what do you remember that

352
00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:22,879
Speaker 2: first time?

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Speaker 3: I do remember the first time i'd worked on a

354
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Speaker 3: patient and had heard later that shortly after she'd passed away,

355
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Speaker 3: and it just shocked me. I think we train for

356
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Speaker 3: the unexpected a lot of the time, and we think

357
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Speaker 3: that we can recognize the patterns and know what's coming,

358
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Speaker 3: and that we treat sick people and that they do

359
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Speaker 3: die and that's the reality of it. But I'd worked

360
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Speaker 3: on this lady who hadn't, you know, appeared too unwell

361
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Speaker 3: and we'd been talking the whole time we'd been with

362
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Speaker 3: each other. We'd been having conversation about her family, and

363
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 3: then to find out that she'd died, I just I started,

364
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,919
Speaker 3: you know, critiquing myself in what have I missed? What

365
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,640
Speaker 3: could I have done something? Did I discount something she'd said?

366
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Speaker 3: Did I downplay something?

367
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Speaker 4: Is that on me?

368
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Speaker 3: And that horrible thought of yeah, could I have done more?

369
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Speaker 3: And in this scenario, there was nothing more I could

370
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Speaker 3: have done. She was sick and there was something beyond

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Speaker 3: you know, my ability to diagnose, and it was just

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00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,840
Speaker 3: catastrophic and she wasn't going to make it. But it's

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Speaker 3: certainly dredged up a lot of self critiquing and criticism

374
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Speaker 3: on myself as to whether I could have done more?

375
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Speaker 3: And I guess I was able to thankfully lean on

376
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Speaker 3: my colleagues to sort of debrief and reflect with them

377
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,720
Speaker 3: and listen to their stories which they'd had similar experiences,

378
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,120
Speaker 3: and to hear that, you know, we can do everything

379
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Speaker 3: we're trained to do, we can do everything right, and

380
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Speaker 3: even then sometimes it's not enough and that's actually outside

381
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Speaker 3: of our control.

382
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Speaker 2: How hard is it not to take it personally.

383
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Speaker 3: I mean, I think the thing that makes me good

384
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Speaker 3: at my job is that I do reflect on what

385
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Speaker 3: I did, and I do make plans to do better

386
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Speaker 3: next time. And if I ever lose that, I think

387
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:06,720
Speaker 3: I need to get out of the job because I

388
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,119
Speaker 3: should always be reflecting, I should always be growing, and

389
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,160
Speaker 3: I should never just settle for I did Okay, Well,

390
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,159
Speaker 3: what can I do next time? What can I do

391
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,960
Speaker 3: better next time? And I'd love to hold onto that

392
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,680
Speaker 3: forever in a positive way, because I think that's the

393
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Speaker 3: way I'm going to continue to grow and be engaged

394
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,199
Speaker 3: in my job in a healthy way. But there's a

395
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,439
Speaker 3: way that we can flip that and have it in

396
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,199
Speaker 3: a negative light and you know, really be hard on

397
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,240
Speaker 3: ourselves and ruminate on that negative side.

398
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Speaker 4: And that can be really self destructive.

399
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Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, I know a lot of soldiers that

400
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 2: take things personally, and you know, therefore, you know, the

401
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:45,360
Speaker 2: whole mental health issue kicks in PTSD, where ultimately you're

402
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,399
Speaker 2: trying to control the uncontrollable, which will only end one way,

403
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 2: and that's you know, down down a dark road. Right, yep.

404
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,159
Speaker 2: Did you ever get onto a situation where you've you

405
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,240
Speaker 2: actually felt scared where you actually felt, you know, that

406
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,520
Speaker 2: your life was in danger.

407
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, there have been a few times when the scene's

408
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,919
Speaker 3: not as been as secure as I'd like it. And

409
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 3: often they come out of nowhere, and again you think

410
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 3: you're prepared, you think you've done your scanning and you're

411
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 3: checking your egress points, and then something unexpected will happen

412
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 3: and you just feel like the rug's been pulled out

413
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:20,960
Speaker 3: from under you and you've put yourself in a really

414
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 3: dangerous position. I was working with a partner and we

415
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 3: attended this young female who had her mother on scene.

416
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Speaker 3: And as we entered the property, it just looked fairly benign,

417
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,719
Speaker 3: a tidy ordered house. The people greeted us respectfully. She

418
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 3: was holding her face as if she'd had some sort

419
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 3: of injury underneath it. And I started introducing myself and

420
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,920
Speaker 3: my partner and speaking to the patient, and the mother

421
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 3: just looked a bit unsettled and uneasy, and her eyes

422
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,439
Speaker 3: sort of started diving across the room, and obviously I

423
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,480
Speaker 3: started tingling, you know, feeling uncomfortable. Something's going on here,

424
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 3: And the next words out of my mouth were going

425
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 3: to be, you know, is anyone else home? But before

426
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 3: I could say that a door open and across the

427
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 3: other side of the room, and a young male who

428
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 3: looked completely furious, stormed out and then pinned his mother

429
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 3: up against the wall by the throat. And I remember

430
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 3: just freezing in that instance and just thinking, this is

431
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,240
Speaker 3: not what I'm here for, This is not what I'm

432
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 3: paid for, this is not in my job. This violent

433
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 3: man I don't know. I don't know anything about him,

434
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 3: I don't know anything about these people, and now I'm

435
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 3: in their house watching this unfold. Thankfully, he wasn't targeting us,

436
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,879
Speaker 3: and we you know, made it out safely and okay,

437
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 3: and managed to treat the people and they were also

438
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 3: okay in the end. But that feeling of being completely blindsided,

439
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 3: out of control, unsafe, and then for me, when I reflected,

440
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 3: it was also the concern that, you know, what would

441
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 3: I have done? Would I have been able to defend myself?

442
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 3: Would I have was I aware enough of my exits?

443
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 3: All those types of things, And yeah, I think that

444
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,440
Speaker 3: was a wake up call. Just you know, the next

445
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 3: few weeks months, I was, you know, had my eyes everywhere,

446
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 3: was asking people who's home, you know, all these types

447
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 3: of things, because it just all these little jobs that

448
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 3: don't go the way you planned, a little reminders.

449
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 4: That you carry with you probably for the rest of

450
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:10,159
Speaker 4: your career.

451
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 2: And does it change your approach, that change how you

452
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 2: operate and how you function.

453
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it ups your vigilance for every job

454
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 3: from then on, you know. And that's the beauty of

455
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 3: the way we learn as paramedics in sharing our stories.

456
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 3: You know, you go back to the station and you

457
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 3: tell your mates this happened to us, so that they

458
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 3: can also carry that with them and keep themselves even

459
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 3: safer on the next job.

460
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose as well. Looking just hearing that story,

461
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 2: you're entering people's private spaces, aren't you. You're intruding into

462
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 2: people's personal space. It can feel like that, right.

463
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 3: And we're also coming on a day that's high stress

464
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 3: for them. It could be the worst day of their life.

465
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 3: And everyone responds so differently to trauma and stress, and

466
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 3: often for some people them feeling out of control and

467
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 3: scared comes out as anger and violence. And you can't

468
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 3: always predict who's going to act that way. But you know,

469
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 3: parents with young children are a big one. You know,

470
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 3: they panic, they feel out of control, and for some

471
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 3: of them, the only coping mechanism they've got is to

472
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 3: turn that into fear, you know, and and anger, and

473
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 3: we often cop the brunt of that just trying to

474
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 3: de escalate that and care for the child or whoever's injured,

475
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 3: and for the people that are there having an emotional response.

476
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose. And do you know what each day

477
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 2: for you, which is literally, well not even each moment

478
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 2: for you in the day, is a huge learning curve,

479
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 2: right because you're going into the unknown, you know you're

480
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 2: going you don't know how the situation is going to unfold,

481
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 2: you don't know the outcome. It takes a certain mindset

482
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,719
Speaker 2: to be able to do that. How how do you

483
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 2: process that when you're when you're at home, when you're

484
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 2: off the job, knowing that you're going to get called

485
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 2: into a situation that, again you know, you know nothing about.

486
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 2: Does it Does it have some kind of effect over time?

487
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 3: I think in the early days it certainly did. I

488
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 3: carried a lot of stress on the job. In between

489
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 3: the jobs, back at the station, back at home, my

490
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 3: mind was always turning with what's next?

491
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 4: Will I be able to manage it? Will I have

492
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 4: the skills to cope?

493
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 3: You know? All those types of questions, and they just

494
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 3: went on and on and on for the probably the

495
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 3: first year of the job. The longer I'm in the job, thankfully,

496
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,479
Speaker 3: I can sort of turn that off. I can realize

497
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 3: if I'm not at work, it's not my job, you know,

498
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 3: it's not my job to respond, it's not my job

499
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 3: to be on high alert when I'm at home relaxing

500
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 3: or doing things with the family. But also there's a

501
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 3: flip side to it in that the unknown is oddly addictive,

502
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 3: you know.

503
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 4: I love that.

504
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 3: I love that, you know, sense that I don't know

505
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 3: what's coming next. I don't know what skills I'm going

506
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 3: to have to draw on, but I guess over the years,

507
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 3: I feel very confident in my skill set in knowing

508
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 3: that whatever I'm shown, I have training, skills, medications, procedures

509
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 3: to combat whatever I come across.

510
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I'm I know, you know, you know, when

511
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 2: you do put your head down and try to sleep,

512
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 2: your mind's just constantly you know, when's the next school

513
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 2: going to come in? You know? Am I going to

514
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 2: deal with it? Am I going to succeed it? Am

515
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 2: I going to save a life? Or and we're going

516
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 2: to lose a life or so therefore I'd go on

517
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 2: to the next task, onto the next mission. You know,

518
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 2: I'd be at ninety percent when I should have been

519
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 2: at one hundred percent because my mind's just churning around.

520
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: Did that ever happen with yourself? And did you ever

521
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: feel like that? You know, maybe it was too much.

522
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 3: I really noticed that sort of rumination mindset that you're

523
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 3: talking about, where you're turning things over and over when

524
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 3: I had a job that hadn't run exactly the way

525
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 3: that I'd wanted it to, so sort of on the

526
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 3: after side of it, and I'd bring that home with

527
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 3: me and I'd carry that and I'd be running through

528
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 3: the job over and over again, replaying every step and

529
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 3: at every moment, whether I'd made a different decision, there'd

530
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 3: be a different outcome in all senses, you know, the

531
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 3: clinical senses, the extrication sensors, the soft skills, the way

532
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 3: I spoke to the family, the information I gave them,

533
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 3: how I managed the team, all of it, just over

534
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 3: and over again. And that can you know, take away

535
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 3: your sleep, you know, take away your appetite, take away

536
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 3: your desire to want to hang out with your family

537
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 3: and be normal you because you're just so preoccupied by

538
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 3: that job playing over and over again. Yeah, I know,

539
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 3: I know that that state very well.

540
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: I've got an extract from your book. You've written a

541
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 2: book called Frog, and do you want to explain why

542
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 2: it's called frog? First and foremost, I know why, and

543
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 2: I find it fascinating because when it when it when it.

544
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 2: When I saw the title of the book frog, obviously,

545
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: I'm a former frogman, you know, so I sort of

546
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 2: smiled at it. But you're your description of frog is

547
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: a bit different to mine.

548
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 3: Yes, I currently work as an intensive care paramedic and

549
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 3: intensive care paramedics in my service known as frogs. The

550
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 3: nickname came in a long time before I joined the job,

551
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 3: and I'm told it was because everything they touched croaks.

552
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 3: But if you interrogate that too much, it doesn't really

553
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 3: make sense as to who's doing the croaking. But yeah,

554
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 3: to this day we're known as frogs. It's our nickname.

555
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 2: I'm just going to read you. Obviously you've written a book,

556
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 2: but I found this really interesting. And then this is

557
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,959
Speaker 2: an extract from the book. It says death plays a

558
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 2: leading role in a paramedics work. We respond to people

559
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 2: who are long dead, those who die in our presence,

560
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 2: those on the brink of dying, and those who wish

561
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 2: they were already dead. Wow, those that wish they were

562
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: already dead. I found that very interesting when I read that,

563
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 2: because I suppose it's is it almost like people asking

564
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: you to put them out of their misery? Is that

565
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: what you is that what you mean by that?

566
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's certainly a whole host of people come across

567
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 3: for various reasons, that feel like they're ready to die.

568
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 3: There's those patients that are suicidal and feel like there's

569
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 3: no hope and they've got wishes to die, and we

570
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 3: have to meet them in that space, and that obviously

571
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 3: demands a lot of care from us in the way

572
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 3: that we manage and support those people. And the other

573
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 3: cohort is those elderly people that feel like they've done

574
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 3: enough living. You know, their body doesn't feel like there's anymore,

575
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,959
Speaker 3: they're not capable of doing what they wish they could do,

576
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 3: and they're lonely and they're in pain. And so many

577
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 3: of them say to me like, oh, can't it just

578
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 3: be over? I'm ready to die? Yeah, And I think

579
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 3: out of society Honestly, I tell them that I can't

580
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 3: disagree with their perspective. You know, they've lived for however

581
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 3: many years and they're not enjoying it anymore. They don't

582
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 3: have quality of life. And who am I to tell

583
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 3: them that that's you know, not the right thing to wish.

584
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 3: And I think as a society we're not really set

585
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 3: up to support people into that end of life stage.

586
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 3: And we sort of think, because we've got the capacity

587
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 3: to give people medications and keep them living, that that's

588
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 3: what we should do. But I meet so many elderly

589
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 3: people that just you know, wish that you know, they've

590
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 3: had a good life and they'd like to end that

591
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 3: chapter and you know, have some peace and some rest

592
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 3: from all the pain.

593
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get that. I understand that as well. And

594
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 2: how hard is it to tell loved ones that they've

595
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 2: lost you know, their husband, their wife, their partner, their child.

596
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: You know? How is it something that you try and

597
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 2: shy away from doing or is it something that you

598
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: actually find piecing doing? What end of the spectrum do

599
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: you sit on?

600
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 3: When I started the job, I had that fear of like,

601
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 3: this is a huge responsibility and I don't have the words,

602
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 3: and I don't have the training, and who am I

603
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 3: to waltz into this person's private space and give them

604
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 3: the worst.

605
00:29:58,280 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 4: News of their life.

606
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 3: But as I've been in the job for a few

607
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 3: years and the more I've done it, it's a huge

608
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 3: privilege and it's almost an honor, i'd say, to be

609
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 3: able to do that because I put so much weight

610
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 3: on the responsibility of doing it in the best way possible.

611
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 4: You know that if I.

612
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: Can do it gently but clearly enough that they get

613
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 3: the message in as gentle a way as possible, that

614
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 3: I've done my job, and that hopefully they don't remember

615
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 3: me in a good way. You know that I'm not

616
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 3: an even worse part of their already terrible day. And

617
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 3: if I do a bad job of it, I'm probably

618
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 3: going to stand out and they're going to remember not

619
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 3: only did my loved one die, but then this insensitive

620
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 3: paramedic bluntly told me and didn't offer any support, and

621
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 3: I become part of that narrative of the worst day.

622
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 3: But if I do it in a gentle way, and

623
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 3: I support them, and I read their cues on how

624
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 3: I think that it's going to land with them, then

625
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 3: hopefully I just blend into that terrible day and they

626
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 3: only feel a sense of being supported by us. You know,

627
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 3: we couldn't do everything to bring their relative back, it

628
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 3: was out of our can, but we can do everything

629
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 3: to support them and the start of their grief journey.

630
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 2: That's really interesting us. But it makes complete sense as well.

631
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: That's an amazing way to put it. You know, if

632
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 2: they don't remember me, then I've done my job. Wow.

633
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: Does it differ from I suppose telling a loved one

634
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 2: that they've lost someone their grandmother for example, to losing

635
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 2: a child. Is the process different? You know? Do you

636
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 2: just treat each individual case as it presents itself, or

637
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: is it the same sort of routine for for everyone?

638
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: Generally speaking, I follow a similar process in terms of

639
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 3: I use clear words like dead. We don't use euphemisms

640
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 3: like passed on gone to a better place. When we're

641
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 3: delivering this important information. It's really crucial that there's no

642
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,239
Speaker 3: mixed messages and we're not misunderstood. So I often use

643
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 3: a blunt, quite clear statement. You know, I'm sorry, but

644
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 3: your loved one is dead or they have died, just

645
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 3: so that we're clear, we're on the same page and

646
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 3: I don't have to re explain that horrible thing because

647
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 3: they've misunderstood what I've said. I always like to leave

648
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,719
Speaker 3: space for people to have a response, because they're not

649
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 3: going to take on and comprehend that message in an instant.

650
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: You know, to me, it's just another day at work,

651
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 3: but to them, it's probably the worst day of their life,

652
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 3: and they need space to sort of process that. And

653
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 3: I don't know how much that's going to affect them

654
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 3: or in what way. And then I think I just

655
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 3: buckle up for whatever sort of grief response is going

656
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 3: to happen, which has a huge range and you can

657
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 3: never predict it because some people feel just as strongly

658
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 3: about losing their elderly grandmother as they would a child.

659
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 3: And I'm not someone to judge what sort of response

660
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 3: you're going to have. I'm just there to sort of

661
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 3: hold them in those initial moments and let it play out.

662
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 3: You know, some people do get angry, some people do

663
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 3: get sad. Some people go into denial or try and

664
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 3: argue with me about it, and that's all okay, you know,

665
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 3: that's all normal.

666
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: Yes, So you almost expect that to happen.

667
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, expect the unexpected.

668
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 3: It could go either way, it could be anything, But

669
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 3: I'm going to allow some space for it because it's

670
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 3: their moment, it's not mine, and I don't know anything

671
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 3: about these people. I've only just met them. So the

672
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 3: least I can do for them is, you know, be clear,

673
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 3: be concise, answer any questions, but then give them space,

674
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 3: you know, to process that.

675
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: Can you remember, you know, was there a particular individual

676
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 2: or person that you found it really really hard to

677
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: They're all tough, obviously, I know they are, But is

678
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: there is there one that stands out in your mind

679
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 2: that was particularly tough to deliver that information?

680
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 3: There's probably not one that comes to mind, or maybe

681
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 3: my mind's blocked it out to protect myself.

682
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

683
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,479
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, But it's it's the ones that maybe are

684
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 3: completely unexpected or a traumatic sort of incident where there

685
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 3: was no forewarning. It wasn't like someone had an illness

686
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 3: leading up to it. It sort of comes out of

687
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 3: the blue. And those completely unexpected ones where I think

688
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 3: it's you know that this is very unexpected and that

689
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 3: they haven't been eased into it at all and you're

690
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 3: about to just completely alter their entire life going forward.

691
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: Is there ever a moment, because we call it combat fatigue,

692
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 2: where you just go through the same process and combat

693
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 2: fatigue or burnout. Was there ever a moment in your

694
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 2: career where you felt that, because it's very, very similar

695
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 2: to going on the military operation of the unknown and burnout.

696
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 2: You know, it just it just comes, doesn't it. A

697
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: combat fatigue just hits you before you know it. Yeah.

698
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 3: I certainly reached a point in my career where at

699
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 3: the start, I jumped in, you know, the whole of me,

700
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 3: super passionate, super keen. I'd fallen in love with it,

701
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 3: and I wanted to think about nothing else, do nothing else,

702
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 3: which meant that self care took a real backseat. I

703
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 3: just loved my days on. I wanted to be there

704
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 3: all the time.

705
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 4: I wanted to think.

706
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 3: About work, study, work, talk about work, it work all

707
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 3: the time. But I reached a point where I wasn't myself,

708
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 3: you know, I was treating people at work without the

709
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 3: respect that they deserved, without the patience. I wasn't as

710
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 3: empathetic as normal, and I kind of just had this

711
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 3: descent into someone I didn't even recognize as myself. And

712
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 3: I don't even know how it happened. And I found

713
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 3: myself at the point where I just thought I can't

714
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 3: turn up to work tomorrow and be a good clinician.

715
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 4: I can't do it.

716
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 3: I'm not in the headspace to go and offer my

717
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 3: service to other people because I'm actually the one that

718
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 3: needs help right now.

719
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 2: And that's what I mean. It just it creeps up

720
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 2: on you and you realize it when you're on the job.

721
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 2: How old were you when you realized that you're at

722
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,959
Speaker 2: the stage, because you started really young and it only

723
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 2: takes you know, a couple of years to be that

724
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 2: intensified for it for it to happen. Were you still

725
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: young or was it later on in your career now?

726
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 3: I was still in my early twenties. I'd only been

727
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 3: in the job a few years, which meant I was

728
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 3: in complete denial. That's something I loved so much had

729
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 3: the potential to damage me, you know. I was like, no,

730
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 3: I love this job. I get so much out of it.

731
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 3: I want to be here. But then why am I,

732
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,439
Speaker 3: you know, transformed into this non functioning human that doesn't

733
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 3: feel capable of getting back to work?

734
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 2: And how did you get how did you overcome that?

735
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 2: How did you get through that?

736
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 3: It wasn't a linear or a quick process. It was

737
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,439
Speaker 3: just going back to the basics and I realized I

738
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 3: hadn't taken care of myself and the job that I'm

739
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 3: in and that I know you can relate to is

740
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 3: you have to respect the darkness of the job and

741
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 3: do the work in your other time to nourish yourself

742
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 3: enough to be in the right space to go there.

743
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 3: And I'd kind of neglected that. So things like getting

744
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 3: enough sleep, eating enough you know, good food, exercising, having

745
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 3: social connection, having time away from the job to decompress,

746
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 3: and I, you know, just ignored all those factors. So

747
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 3: I think I got lucky, chatted to my GP, got

748
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 3: some professional assistants, and just made small steps that made

749
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 3: little differences over a long period of time to get

750
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 3: back to to where I knew I was me again,

751
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 3: and where the way I describe it is like the

752
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 3: world was colorful again. I hadn't noticed, but everything had

753
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 3: sort of been sucked out in terms of the color.

754
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 3: And it wasn't until it came back and I was

755
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,720
Speaker 3: well again that I went, oh, yeah, everything's colored again,

756
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 3: like I'm me, I'm me again.

757
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's so intense, it's so relentless, it's so

758
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 2: back to back. How supportive was the organization?

759
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I made a lot of steps in my

760
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 3: personal life and decided to keep it sort of separate

761
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 3: from the service because I think I had a whole

762
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,439
Speaker 3: lot of stuff myself going on that I hadn't worked through.

763
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 3: I'd gone through my coming of age on the front line,

764
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 3: like I hadn't developed as an adult yet and sorted

765
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 3: out my own identity before I developed this kind of

766
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 3: warped identity inside of a uniform that I hadn't considered

767
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 3: the human underneath that. And so I had a lot

768
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 3: of work to do on myself to sort of become

769
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 3: an adult in my own right that wasn't just Sally

770
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 3: in uniform. And and so I think, yeah, that was

771
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 3: a bit of the process for me.

772
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 2: And so after that, that's that that burnout and you

773
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 2: started seeing all the colorful things again. I suppose you're

774
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 2: it's you're You're a great example. Really be one of

775
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,720
Speaker 2: them that those people that individuals that people can really

776
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 2: come to and get knowledge from. Right.

777
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think when you've been given that experience yourself

778
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,439
Speaker 3: to sort of reflect and better yourself and develop really

779
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 3: good self care sort of toolkit, I guess it's it's

780
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 3: my duty to pass that on to the junior staff

781
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 3: and people embarking on their career to you know, use

782
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 3: those tools preemptively to protect themselves and you know, heading

783
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 3: into a job that can have darkness, but yeah, to

784
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 3: give them encouragement that if they look after themselves then

785
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 3: they can build the resilience to have a great career.

786
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 2: And how how is your career at the moment? Are you?

787
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 2: Where do you find yourself? What's your job tied to?

788
00:38:58,600 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 2: What are you doing?

789
00:38:59,520 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 4: Yeah?

790
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 3: So I work as an intensive care paramedic, which is

791
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 3: one of the highest skill levels of on rown paramedic

792
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 3: and I get the pleasure of heading out to usually

793
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 3: the sickest people, which sounds horribly insensitive, but keeps me

794
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,439
Speaker 3: engaged in my job. But I also have the role

795
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 3: of supporting the junior crews and attending jobs with them

796
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 3: and giving them a hand And I love that. I

797
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 3: love seeing you know, people at a position in their

798
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 3: career where I once was.

799
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 4: I haven't forgotten it.

800
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 3: I remember what it was like to start, and I

801
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 3: think seeing people at the start gives you a renewed

802
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 3: sort of excitement about the job, seeing it through their eyes,

803
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 3: seeing the greenness, and supporting them to develop themselves as

804
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 3: a clinician, So yeah, loving my job still.

805
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 2: Do you know what, having come up through the ranks

806
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 2: at such a young age like you have, it's such

807
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: a great position to be in through life experience, through knowledge,

808
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 2: through being there yourself as a young paramedic. How has

809
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 2: your job impacted you'll view on life and death? You know?

810
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: How do you view life and death at where you're

811
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: at right now?

812
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 3: I think part of it is I've got that dark

813
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 3: sense of humor to carry me through the tragic things,

814
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 3: but also seeing life cut short so often and how

815
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 3: unfair that.

816
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 4: Is and how destructive that is.

817
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 3: I am often filled with just an incredible sense of

818
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 3: appreciation that I'm alive and the opportunity that comes with that,

819
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 3: and really wanting to to grab that and make the

820
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 3: most of it because I see that it can be

821
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 3: taken away at a moment's notice.

822
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 2: And do you have a fear for your life? Do

823
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 2: you ever do you ever think about you know, because

824
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 2: you're exposed to it so often, do you ever think

825
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 2: about death yourself?

826
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 3: I think about it, but I don't think I'm afraid

827
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 3: of it. I think if you're living each day to

828
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 3: the fullest and you're connected to those around you and

829
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 3: you're building other people up and you're making the most

830
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 3: of every experience, then hopefully you can sort of be

831
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 3: content with that that, you know, I like to think that.

832
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 3: Of course I don't want to die, but if it

833
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 3: was to happen, that I did everything I could with

834
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 3: every day I had and made the most of it.

835
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you don't realize the phenomenal mindset that

836
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 2: you have in order to be where you're at, to

837
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 2: have gone what you've gone through, and you know, to

838
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 2: be at the stage of the job that you're in

839
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 2: is it requires well a mindset and a half and

840
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 2: ahead game like no other, which is phenomenal. Now, let's

841
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 2: finish up on your book. What made you want to

842
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 2: write Frog?

843
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 3: It started actually as the journals I kept in that

844
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 3: ride along when I was in university.

845
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, so we had.

846
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 3: A clinical log to keep, which was, you know, what patient,

847
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 3: what was their age, what was their presenting complaint? But

848
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 3: I also kept a journal that was about, you know,

849
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 3: how I felt about it, what I was seeing the

850
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 3: paramedics do, and how amazing it was. And I capture

851
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,479
Speaker 3: every moment of the day in my little journal. After

852
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 3: the shift, and when I looked back on that journal.

853
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 3: Even a year later, I thought, Wow, I've come so

854
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 3: far and I've grown so much in a short space

855
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 3: of time, and I can only imagine what the rest

856
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 3: of that trajectory is going to look like. I have

857
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 3: to sort of capture it. And then it just reached

858
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 3: a point where I was like, I have to turn

859
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 3: this into a book. I have to write it down,

860
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 3: you know, to celebrate my career and to validate the

861
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 3: experience of the other paramedics.

862
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 4: I just had to do it.

863
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 2: And what was it like going back through those notes,

864
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,479
Speaker 2: because obviously there's a lot that you forget. Was it

865
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 2: was it quite a frapeutic experience or was it quite

866
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 2: hard to actually go back to some of those moments.

867
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 3: Now, it was exciting because I still remember the jobs,

868
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 3: but it was also humbling because there was so much

869
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 3: I didn't know, so much that had gone over my

870
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 3: head in those first few of shifts that now I

871
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 3: was like, oh, of course that's what the paramedics were doing.

872
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 3: Of course that's why they did that, and it all

873
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 3: makes sense. But at the time I was just completely overwhelmed,

874
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 3: and then, you know, blown away by what they were doing.

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00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 2: Listen, I can't wait to have a good read of it.

876
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: I've ever managed to get some extracts of the book listen.

877
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 2: It's been phenomenal speaking with you. You are a life saver.

878
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 2: Keep saving lives and I wish you all the best

879
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:19,399
Speaker 2: of your book.

880
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 4: Thanks for coming on, Sally, Thanks so much, Ed, Thanks

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00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 4: for having me.

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00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining me on Headgame. If you

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00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: enjoyed this episode, make sure you're subscribed so you don't

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00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 2: miss any of our incredible stories, and leave me a

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00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 2: review wherever you're listening. I'm Aunt Middleton. Catch you again

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00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 2: next time.