Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About for Stella Podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Sarah La Marquin, to your host, and every week
Speaker 1: I sit down with some of the biggest names in
Speaker 1: the country because when Australia's celebrities are ready to talk,
Speaker 1: they come to Something to talk about. There have been
Speaker 1: thousands of big news stories over the last thirty five years,
Speaker 1: and my guest today has covered them all, from being
Speaker 1: the first Australian journalist to cover the events of nine
Speaker 1: to eleven and from war zones to Olympics to royal weddings.
Speaker 1: Sandra Solly has been bringing the headlines to TV viewers
Speaker 1: on ten News since nineteen ninety. But as you're about
Speaker 1: to hear, it wasn't Sandra's goal to be a newsreader.
Speaker 1: It was a career she fell into by accident, and
Speaker 1: because of that, she's always felt like a bit of
Speaker 1: a fraud.
Speaker 2: I always felt a little bit fraudulent, a little bit
Speaker 2: of an impossible that I started very late. This seriousness
Speaker 2: came over me because I had to play catch up.
Speaker 1: But Sandra, Sally is the real deal and on today's episode,
Speaker 1: she joins me in the studio to discuss her incredible career.
Speaker 1: The harrowing experience of being held at gunpoint as she
Speaker 1: got out of her car after driving home from work
Speaker 1: one night, and why you never hear about her personal life.
Speaker 1: Sandra Sually, Welcome to the Stellar Podcast.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thanks for having me. It's nice to have
Speaker 2: you here.
Speaker 1: I have met you a few times over the years.
Speaker 1: We have worked with you before at Stella, but I
Speaker 1: have never sat down in conversation with you, So thank.
Speaker 2: You for me to.
Speaker 1: The trigger for this is because thirty five years this
Speaker 1: year you have been at ten News. It's quite remarkable
Speaker 1: in a time when people tend to turn over jobs
Speaker 1: and employers pretty frequently. I wanted to start our conversation
Speaker 1: by showing you a little bit of video that I
Speaker 1: have here from one of your earlier bulletins in the
Speaker 1: early nineties.
Speaker 2: So let me is that with padded shoulders, with.
Speaker 1: Action at last over Sidney, these hotel fire traps first
Speaker 1: at five the Hampton Court ordered to close down. What
Speaker 1: do you think when you look back on those early years?
Speaker 1: Do you look back on those early years to people
Speaker 1: like me make you look.
Speaker 2: Back on those Yeah, and I'm gonna blame you, Sarah. Look,
Speaker 2: it's just a walk back in time you are transported
Speaker 2: there momentarily to you know, the feelings and what your
Speaker 2: thoughts were, and how nervous you were. You know, I
Speaker 2: remember all of that and how lucky AIR was and
Speaker 2: you know, wracked with I wouldn't say anxiety, but you know,
Speaker 2: anxiousness about doing a good job. And I'm actually reading
Speaker 2: the news in Sydney. There's a lot to process. But yeah,
Speaker 2: when I see that stuff, it takes me right back
Speaker 2: there and I feel very lucky, you know.
Speaker 1: And also, of course there's always that thing whenever anyone's
Speaker 1: looking through photos or videos of the reminders of what
Speaker 1: you wore, of the different haircuts that you had over
Speaker 1: the years, and we always look back and think, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, I look so young, even though we didn't
Speaker 1: think it at the time, even if it was just
Speaker 1: last year, a lot of us look and think, look
Speaker 1: at that person. So there's also that time capsule component
Speaker 1: when a big part of your life thirty five years
Speaker 1: has been visually documented in that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And I see many of those images and think,
Speaker 2: what was I thinking? You know that I really think
Speaker 2: that looked good, but look, you go with it. At
Speaker 2: the time, I do remember I was called into the
Speaker 2: news bosses offices, actually the station offices, and they were
Speaker 2: trying to work out, these three elderly men how they
Speaker 2: could make me look older. And one of them, who
Speaker 2: was head of finance I think at the time, said
Speaker 2: hmm a French rule I think would be very elegant.
Speaker 2: What did you try that?
Speaker 1: And did you try that?
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I just remember thinking, what would
Speaker 2: you know?
Speaker 1: You don't take care and fashion tips from the head
Speaker 1: of finance on a regular basis.
Speaker 2: Oh, look, we've put it up and probably tried something,
Speaker 2: But I mean I wasn't in a position to argue
Speaker 2: at the time. I just remember thinking, this is surreal. Seriously.
Speaker 2: Have you had that sort.
Speaker 1: Of unsolicited advice over the years about how you present yourself?
Speaker 1: Because that's a big part of working in media, it's
Speaker 1: a big part of being a woman, whatever industry you
Speaker 1: work in, has that something that's been thrown at you
Speaker 1: a lot? And have you found that you've learned to
Speaker 1: speak up a little bit or do you just let
Speaker 1: it go?
Speaker 2: Look, it's part and parcel of the job. I've had
Speaker 2: unsolicited advice in my whole life. But who hasn't And
Speaker 2: when it's about your appearance. In our industry, that can
Speaker 2: be a little bit tedious because men aren't provided the
Speaker 2: same unsolicited advice that you know, they literally go through.
Speaker 2: I mean, color will the same suit for a year,
Speaker 2: nobody noticed exactly. At the same time, women enjoy being
Speaker 2: able to play with fashion and hair and jewelry and makeup,
Speaker 2: so we can't have it both ways. I'm never going
Speaker 2: to complain. I've just learned how to manage that and
Speaker 2: process it and park it in the right spot. You know,
Speaker 2: who did take notice? Often who not to look. I've
Speaker 2: got colleagues that actually hate that hour in hair and makeup,
Speaker 2: and it's the best part of my day? Is it
Speaker 2: really every day?
Speaker 1: In what way do you? Is it a time where you.
Speaker 2: Have It's a time where I'm still and quiet. Usually
Speaker 2: I'm working, I'm on my computer, usually while they're doing
Speaker 2: my hair. But oh, someone playing with the hair and
Speaker 2: makeup for an hour every day, knowing that I could
Speaker 2: not do, you know, an adequate job on my own.
Speaker 2: So relieved that someone else who is a professional is
Speaker 2: taking charge, because you know, heaven help the viewers of Australia,
Speaker 2: they had to see my best efforts. You know, I
Speaker 2: really am hopeless at it. I don't rely on the experts.
Speaker 1: That vision that I was just showing you was your
Speaker 1: former colleague Ron Wilson, And when we profiled you in
Speaker 1: Stella some years ago, Ron told Stella at the time,
Speaker 1: I've worked with over a dozen female partners on Channel ten,
Speaker 1: and virtually all of them have fallen by the wayside.
Speaker 1: These were pretty tough women. But Sandra has survived all
Speaker 1: this time and still has a smile on her face.
Speaker 1: If you can do that for this long, something is right.
Speaker 1: What do you say to that? What might that something
Speaker 1: be that is so right?
Speaker 2: Thank you? Ronnie. Oh look, I think in many respects
Speaker 2: it was about opportunity and good timing, you know, not
Speaker 2: being afraid to seize a moment. But when I worked
Speaker 2: on late News, and I did for nearly eighteen years,
Speaker 2: I was out of the cut and thrust the fray
Speaker 2: of politics of a newsroom, and it served me really well.
Speaker 2: They left us alone and they focused on the main game,
Speaker 2: which was five o'clock, and I needed that quiet time
Speaker 2: and to be out of everyone's gun sights. You know,
Speaker 2: I'd not long been divorced and gone through an assault,
Speaker 2: and the Late News was a really safe space for me.
Speaker 2: We had a small team, really agile. We were left
Speaker 2: to our own devices, and we had a lot of
Speaker 2: fun and it was a really tight team. It was
Speaker 2: hard work, the hours were tough, but I liked the
Speaker 2: fact that, you know, the bosses left at six o'clock
Speaker 2: and they left us to it, so we had a
Speaker 2: lot of freedom and license to, you know, really enjoy
Speaker 2: the product and get our hands dirty and be really
Speaker 2: responsible for it, you know. So I think in many
Speaker 2: respects that gave me a national profile by default. It
Speaker 2: wasn't anything I chased, and Forward left and she sort
Speaker 2: of said, Silent's your turn, you know, good old Fullers,
Speaker 2: and I hadn't you know, it wasn't anything I chased
Speaker 2: or wanted. But when the opportunity came up, I knew
Speaker 2: it was the right call for me. And I think
Speaker 2: I'd learned over the years that you know, to have
Speaker 2: a national profile in such a cutthroat industry, it meant
Speaker 2: I could get a job somewhere, you know, if the
Speaker 2: worst happened, because it does every day of the week
Speaker 2: in our game. So it was, you know, a kind
Speaker 2: of remote insurance policy of sorts. I never knew at
Speaker 2: the time. I'd be there for seventeen and a half years,
Speaker 2: and then when it ended, you know, I got married
Speaker 2: and I got back from my honeymoon, and I got
Speaker 2: called into the boss's office and he said, do you
Speaker 2: want to do five o'clock? Choice? He said none, He
Speaker 2: said not really. He said, well, we're acting late news.
Speaker 2: I went, okay, tokyo, Yeah, there really is no choice
Speaker 2: mortgage and yeah. So for me, it's been hard work,
Speaker 2: seizing opportunities and good timing.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about the different time slots
Speaker 1: that you'd worked in, not only in terms of the
Speaker 1: professional way. As you say, you had a little bit
Speaker 1: of freedom at the late news, and then at five
Speaker 1: o'clock you're there and there's no where to hide, and
Speaker 1: the suits are still in the building, and it's all
Speaker 1: eyes on you for better ultimately, And of course it
Speaker 1: does bring risk with it, but just also sandra from
Speaker 1: your routine and your life. And there's always fascination in
Speaker 1: anyone that works shift hours. I put those in inverted
Speaker 1: commas because obviously a lot of people, especially in this
Speaker 1: time of hybrid working and remote working and technology, working
Speaker 1: different locations and different times. But with the five o'clock.
Speaker 1: What does a day look like for you? Because I
Speaker 1: think most people understand you're not rolling in the door
Speaker 1: at four point thirty. I mean you're there doing headlines
Speaker 1: throughout the afternoon, You're preparing you scripts, researching, meeting with
Speaker 1: producers and other people in the newsroom. There is as
Speaker 1: we talked about the visual component of hair and makeup.
Speaker 1: Did you have a preference in terms of your lifestyle
Speaker 1: between time slides?
Speaker 2: Although I reluctantly did the five o'clock job, but I
Speaker 2: had just got married and I figured the universe was
Speaker 2: telling me I needed to adopt better hours for my
Speaker 2: new husband so that I would be home and not
Speaker 2: always sleep deprived. When you're a shift worker, you are
Speaker 2: sleep deprived. And I think if you do either midnight
Speaker 2: to dawns or super early start, you become quite sleep obsessed.
Speaker 2: But you know, I did it for nearly two decades,
Speaker 2: and it taught me the rigors of looking after yourself.
Speaker 2: While it's important to manage yourself well in this industry,
Speaker 2: with those hours, five o'clock was a big adjustment, and
Speaker 2: it took me a long time to kind of get
Speaker 2: with a program. But in a nutshell, when I was
Speaker 2: on late news. I was completely wedded to radio, and
Speaker 2: you know, I'd get home anytime from midnight till two
Speaker 2: in the morning. And I'm a TV person. I grew
Speaker 2: up with TV, very strong TV family, and I can
Speaker 2: fall sleep in front of the telly. But I knew
Speaker 2: that if I sat up for too late, when I
Speaker 2: got home, it'll be two or three in the morning.
Speaker 2: But the world still expected me to connect and be
Speaker 2: engaged available at nine, So I would go to bed
Speaker 2: and put the radio on. So to this day, I
Speaker 2: go to bed and put the radio on. Now it's
Speaker 2: morphed into the world of podcasts, which we've all fallen
Speaker 2: in love with, but I've been in the podcast world
Speaker 2: for twenty five thirty years. Yeah, you're at So I
Speaker 2: go to bed listening to BBC or you know. The
Speaker 2: rest is politics or great podcasts that I really enjoy,
Speaker 2: and it can be silly stuff, crime stuff, whatever, and
Speaker 2: then I'm awadded to the radio as soon as I
Speaker 2: wake up, basically Radio National in the morning, but you know,
Speaker 2: I'll scan all the major radio stations to hear what's
Speaker 2: going on. And then as soon as I wake up
Speaker 2: and not necessarily out of bed, and I download the
Speaker 2: major full papers of every day, scan all of those
Speaker 2: so I know what the major stories are. And while
Speaker 2: i'm reading those, I've got a running commentary from a
Speaker 2: radio current affairs show about what's going on. Then I
Speaker 2: might get into my day, and most days i'm kind
Speaker 2: of in the office somewhere between twelve and one, but
Speaker 2: that varies. You know, today was an eight thirty start,
Speaker 2: so it does depend. And then I go straight into
Speaker 2: hair and makeup. I don't even go upstairs because I
Speaker 2: can see the rundown remotely on my computer laptop either
Speaker 2: at home. When I'm in hair and makeup, I've got
Speaker 2: a laptop in my dressing room so that I can
Speaker 2: start working and looking at the bulletin, reading people's scripts,
Speaker 2: trying to get a handle on the flow of the bulletin,
Speaker 2: what the shape looks like where there's a bit of
Speaker 2: light and shade, where it's super heavy obviously in the
Speaker 2: entire first break, and what those intros is starting to
Speaker 2: look like. And then I'll leave that laptop in my
Speaker 2: dressing room and then head upstairs, sit on the production desk,
Speaker 2: get ready for updates, keep.
Speaker 1: Going and what time do you finish up? Now?
Speaker 2: Then about six thirty. Yeah, but you know, for three
Speaker 2: or four years I did two states, so I did
Speaker 2: New South Wales and Queensland. So that was three and
Speaker 2: a half hours of reading and the magic of television
Speaker 2: cutting and working between two states and daylight saving and
Speaker 2: it was rigorous.
Speaker 1: How do you feel when every day you're just about
Speaker 1: to go on air, presumably the floor manager's doing the
Speaker 1: classic countdown? Do you still is there something that kicks
Speaker 1: in in you? Is it a hit of adrenaline? Is
Speaker 1: that excitement?
Speaker 2: Is it nerves? Not so much nerves any anymore, but
Speaker 2: there is a conscious realization and acknowledgment that this is
Speaker 2: live television and there is no safety net. And we
Speaker 2: have a running gag in the newsroom and for twenty
Speaker 2: five plus years, I will I will occasion, you know,
Speaker 2: we'll say Chuckers break a leg, or I will squeal
Speaker 2: I'm not ready. I'm not ready, which makes us all
Speaker 2: laugh because I'm you know, a creature of habit. But
Speaker 2: also it's about actually getting you up. Not that you
Speaker 2: want to read that first story, you know, smiling and giggling,
Speaker 2: but you've got to get your energy levels up, and
Speaker 2: at times, with the heaviness of stories, you know, you
Speaker 2: can peek and trough all day and then you kind
Speaker 2: of want a flat line, but it is there's a
Speaker 2: performance element to what we do, and you need to
Speaker 2: be very switched on and focused because with live television
Speaker 2: and breaking news, there's no one that can help you.
Speaker 1: Obviously, you consume a lot of media.
Speaker 2: What you've just talked us through what a day looks.
Speaker 1: Like, and when you're not working, you take a break
Speaker 1: over summer. It's obviously February a lot of us have
Speaker 1: come back from a bit of time, are really getting back.
Speaker 2: Into the work.
Speaker 1: Here. Are you able to unplug from the news cycle?
Speaker 1: And is that even anything that you would want to do?
Speaker 2: I never used to, but now I think it's good
Speaker 2: for my mental health, so I do kind of switch off.
Speaker 2: I do like listening to political podcasts, which drives my
Speaker 2: husband completely spare. So I've often got to, you know,
Speaker 2: have headsets on or something. But that's not the daily
Speaker 2: cycle of news. It's not driven by the headlines, and
Speaker 2: for me, it's getting more behind the scenes and understanding
Speaker 2: the bigger picture, and I really enjoy that. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I can switch off, and I know I should, and
Speaker 2: I do because it's good for me. I mean, I
Speaker 2: was traveling in the States last year for a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks and other than watch some local news just
Speaker 2: to get a sense in the build up to the election,
Speaker 2: you know what were the local saying how big a
Speaker 2: deal was it? But you know in Detroit they didn't
Speaker 2: really care.
Speaker 1: It must be so fascinating. Obviously, I want to ask
Speaker 1: you a little bit about some of those moments that
Speaker 1: have really stood out, and the people that you have met,
Speaker 1: and the historical scenes that you have found yourself bringing
Speaker 1: to the country. But that question there just also makes
Speaker 1: me think about the changing nature of the news cycle.
Speaker 1: And it's obviously something that we in the media talk
Speaker 1: a lot about. Is that there used to be a
Speaker 1: time where you have a certain newspaper arriving at a
Speaker 1: time and then turn on the TV and get that
Speaker 1: certain bulletin, and of course now news is coming at
Speaker 1: us all the time. Is there a sense that your
Speaker 1: audience now might be across certain things and you're bringing
Speaker 1: it to them with a slightly different tone than maybe
Speaker 1: you were thirty five years ago.
Speaker 2: It's thirty five years ago we knew they wouldn't have
Speaker 2: seen the pictures by five o'clock or unless they'd heard
Speaker 2: something on radio. So much of the day had largely
Speaker 2: gone by unnoticed and undocumented other than within newsrooms and
Speaker 2: journals around the country, So your average viewer didn't really
Speaker 2: have a great sense of what had happened, and they
Speaker 2: tuned in to find out. These days, we must always
Speaker 2: assume that we've got to take a story somewhere from
Speaker 2: six o'clock and eight o'clock, and we've we've got to
Speaker 2: present the news at the end of it, the evolution
Speaker 2: of a day as that story has evolved. And you know,
Speaker 2: we often get frustrated with sports stories. I mean, you
Speaker 2: really rarely want a sports break that's just full of
Speaker 2: results that happened in Europe last night, because soccer fans
Speaker 2: knew that when they woke up or they were up
Speaker 2: watching it. It's changed the dynamic of everything we do.
Speaker 2: Everyone is twenty four to seven. I mean, the internet
Speaker 2: actually wasn't invented that long before I started. So you know,
Speaker 2: I remember, you know, journo's out with pages and they
Speaker 2: had to stop at a phone booth and put in
Speaker 2: money to ring so that we could say, listen, we've
Speaker 2: got the address of the family of and then they
Speaker 2: say Okay, we'll call back in an hour and let
Speaker 2: you know if we found them, and then you just
Speaker 2: didn't hear hear from them for two hours, not knowing
Speaker 2: what they were going to come back with. Now everything
Speaker 2: is so instantaneous. I mean, it's another reason why ten
Speaker 2: launched the Late News as a digital product first, you know,
Speaker 2: because people don't watch news on traditional platforms, so we
Speaker 2: need to be where the eyeballs are. You know, you
Speaker 2: can see breaks of our new service on YouTube, Yes,
Speaker 2: on Facebook, on Tenplay. We need to be where the
Speaker 2: eyeballs are, and the metrics we have to wait for
Speaker 2: them to catch up, but we know you know that
Speaker 2: they're not an accurate reflection of the viewing landscape.
Speaker 1: I would now love to ask about some of the
Speaker 1: moments that have stood out for you over the thirty
Speaker 1: five years. One, of course, I'm sure you think I'm
Speaker 1: going to bring up September eleven, two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: because I know that's something that you're constantly asked about
Speaker 1: because you were the first Australian journalist to bring that
Speaker 1: news as it was unfolding. You were on air doing
Speaker 1: the late night News when that vision came through.
Speaker 2: Now that do some breaking news just through and CNN
Speaker 2: is reporting tonight that a plane has crashed into the
Speaker 2: World Trade Center.
Speaker 1: The only thing so let's just start by'm not talking
Speaker 1: about that too much unless you want to, because, like
Speaker 1: I'd say, I'd love to ask you to nominate some
Speaker 1: of the other moments that have stood out that you
Speaker 1: maybe haven't spoken about as much. But my question to
Speaker 1: you is when something like that happens nine to eleven
Speaker 1: or something similar and you are there seeing this absolutely
Speaker 1: or in the moment clearly absolutely horrifying event happened, huge
Speaker 1: loss of life, and then probably having that instinct that
Speaker 1: of course this was going to be a moment that
Speaker 1: would change everything, which it did. When you go home
Speaker 1: at the end of that, is that a really bad
Speaker 1: day at work? Or is it actually a day at
Speaker 1: work that proves exactly while you're there and is actually
Speaker 1: the most important kind of work and a privilege in
Speaker 1: a way? Is it a good day?
Speaker 2: It's a good question, I think, and I do get
Speaker 2: it a lot. I have realized mostly through the discussions
Speaker 2: I've had with my husband his observations of me. Obviously,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of adrenaline on a big news day
Speaker 2: because you want to get it right and cover as
Speaker 2: many angles as you can and present the most accurate
Speaker 2: picture of a significant story like that to viewers. I
Speaker 2: think when I get home, I probably a mostly quite
Speaker 2: and just processing it all or a bit flat. I
Speaker 2: wouldn't say I'm energized. I'm probably drained and trying to
Speaker 2: process it. I try not to wallow in it. If
Speaker 2: I wallow in the images, then I'm just that's silly.
Speaker 2: Like I've learnt to, I can't. Can't you know, there
Speaker 2: are times when as a human being, of course, there
Speaker 2: are plenty of days when it's really hard, but I'll
Speaker 2: just be quiet and try to work out how to
Speaker 2: switch off.
Speaker 1: For you, what are the big moments that would stand
Speaker 1: out from some of the stories that you've covered, particularly
Speaker 1: the ones that you were on location.
Speaker 2: Well, these I wasn't on location, but you know, I
Speaker 2: just moved to Sydney from Canberra, and it was all
Speaker 2: the Gulf War, you know, every day reporting on the
Speaker 2: fall of Saddam Hussein, and then when they found him,
Speaker 2: and then it was you know, obviously September eleven, but
Speaker 2: then it was the assassination of a summer bin laden.
Speaker 2: How that played out. I think you know, I've been
Speaker 2: desk bound for a long time, so I can't really
Speaker 2: claim to be on location. But the Fukushima nuclear bi
Speaker 2: down was pretty gold smacking. Archa was horrendous, so many.
Speaker 1: What about some of the lighter moments as well, because
Speaker 1: obviously there's also been royal weddings and and you know
Speaker 1: big obviously Olympics and big cultural and sporting.
Speaker 2: See I'm sorry, I was on location on a holiday
Speaker 2: Threadbow when the Threadbow landslide disaster happened. I was in
Speaker 2: Atlanta covering the Olympics when the bombing occurred, so those
Speaker 2: were significant. But yes, there's been lots of great upsides there, really,
Speaker 2: there really has. And covering the Atlanta Olympics was amazing.
Speaker 2: Conwealth Games of Victoria incredible in Atlanta, seeing Muhammad Ali
Speaker 2: and on pill side Karen Perkins wins gold from Layin eight,
Speaker 2: Madame Butterfly wins gold.
Speaker 1: Ridiculous there for history front row seat. And that's right
Speaker 1: with the Threadbow landslide in nineteen ninety seven, you were,
Speaker 1: I believe they're on location when they found Stuart Diver,
Speaker 1: which is a moment etched into the minds forever of
Speaker 1: so many Australians to be there for that moment must
Speaker 1: be again overwhelming at the time.
Speaker 2: But who well I was. We were on air and
Speaker 2: I remember getting into trouble from my news director when
Speaker 2: I got back to Sydney because I was emotional and
Speaker 2: I shouldn't have been, but I'd been there a week
Speaker 2: and we had been immersed in Threadbow with a village
Speaker 2: and a community that were grieving the loss of so
Speaker 2: many of their colleagues, friends and family, and we were
Speaker 2: considered the pariahs. We were hated, understandably that it was
Speaker 2: such a sensitive time for everyone and the relief that
Speaker 2: they'd actually found him, Plus we all knew the ordeal
Speaker 2: that Stuart had gone through at the time as well,
Speaker 2: losing his wife, lying next to her for days. Horrendous, horrendous.
Speaker 2: But yes, on a brighter note, lots of incredible stories
Speaker 2: and random, great fun you know at the network that
Speaker 2: I've been afforded.
Speaker 1: Can I just go back to you mention when you
Speaker 1: came back from covering the Threadbow landslide and the discovery
Speaker 1: of Stuart Diver, that your news director you were in
Speaker 1: trouble for being emotional. Was that being emotional on air?
Speaker 1: Was it being emotional behind the scene, so it was
Speaker 1: really frowned upon to show any sort of emotion.
Speaker 2: Yes, and I just I heard what he said. I
Speaker 2: couldn't go back and change it, I said, I just
Speaker 2: disagree with you. I don't, I said, I don't remember
Speaker 2: losing it. You know that my voice was breaking, and
Speaker 2: clearly it was, you know, everyone was overwhelmed with relief
Speaker 2: and that in the circumstances, I just sort of thought, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'll go back. I mean, I would always go back
Speaker 2: and look at the vision and how I went and
Speaker 2: what I should change, always ruminating, ruminating and ruminating.
Speaker 1: It's just an interesting I think, also snapshot of the time,
Speaker 1: what we're talking about earlier, how things change. Because obviously
Speaker 1: you as a journalist, throughout your career, you haven't put yourself.
Speaker 1: You have never made yourself the story, and so it's
Speaker 1: not as though you were making the focus about your
Speaker 1: human reaction to it. But I think as a society
Speaker 1: we've become a bit more forgiving, and actually people really
Speaker 1: like that glimpse, especially I think when it's coming from
Speaker 1: someone who isn't doing that all the time.
Speaker 2: I don't think you should ever really the story you
Speaker 2: shouldn't be the story. It's not about you, no, But look,
Speaker 2: the casualness of news is a relatively new thing. It's
Speaker 2: far more conversational than it was when I started. It
Speaker 2: was very formal. You know, we had jackets, we had
Speaker 2: shoulder pads, we lived in a small box. We really smiled.
Speaker 2: Except for the light and fluffy story at the end
Speaker 2: of the bulletin. It is far more conversation. We do
Speaker 2: ten times of reading that, you know, than the original
Speaker 2: news readers back in the day. I mean, there's endless
Speaker 2: scripts and endless copy and not everything you've seen before
Speaker 2: you get a chance to read it. So the audience
Speaker 2: has become more forgiving, fortunately, but the work's harder and
Speaker 2: there's a lot more of it. But that's okay.
Speaker 1: Coming up the violent attack that Sandra very rarely speaks about.
Speaker 1: You mentioned that you were really fascinated with TV before
Speaker 1: you broke into the industry, and I wanted to ask
Speaker 1: you a little bit about what you thought the job
Speaker 1: might be like when you were growing up, and the
Speaker 1: way that we see the nature of being on a
Speaker 1: news desk replicated in popular culture. I mean, at the moment,
Speaker 1: there's an ABC show called The News reader obviously the
Speaker 1: famously there's the anchorman years. I'd love to know if
Speaker 1: you know Ron Burgundy meant that everyone was, you know,
Speaker 1: coming at you with the real life version of memes
Speaker 1: quoting that to you, and how how was that era?
Speaker 2: Well, I think a lot of people think that I
Speaker 2: always wanted to do this job, but the truth of
Speaker 2: the matter is I fell into it quite by accident.
Speaker 2: You know, I worked in health and fitness, you know,
Speaker 2: torta aerobics. Loved the health and fitness world, but realized
Speaker 2: it was probably more of a hobby than a career.
Speaker 2: And one of the ladies in the running club, Barbara,
Speaker 2: she was leaving Channel seven and going to set up
Speaker 2: the entertainment for Expo and Brisbane, and you know, I
Speaker 2: was looking in a gym. We had five centers, twenty
Speaker 2: five instructors, one hundred and twenty five classes a week.
Speaker 2: I'm a really organized person and I wanted to go
Speaker 2: and work with Barbara setting up the entertainment. And she said, Sandra,
Speaker 2: I won't have a job for a couple of years,
Speaker 2: you know, Expos a little while away, but there's a
Speaker 2: great job going up to Channel seven. I said, I
Speaker 2: don't know anything about television. She said, no, no, no unit manager,
Speaker 2: you be fine. Production system. Okay. I fell into it
Speaker 2: by accident and I started as a production system Maxie
Speaker 2: McHugh started as a director's assistant. Lee Sales started. I
Speaker 2: think a similar way to myself. So I had no
Speaker 2: idea what being a newsreader or a journalist meant. I
Speaker 2: think in some respects, because I always felt a little
Speaker 2: bit fraudulent, a little bit of an impost and that
Speaker 2: I started very late. You know, this seriousness came over
Speaker 2: me because I had to play catch up and I
Speaker 2: hadn't I didn't have that gene because I've worked on
Speaker 2: a current affairs show and then on April Fool's Day,
Speaker 2: the Current Affair show got axed and I got absorbed
Speaker 2: into the newsroom because they went to an hour and
Speaker 2: they needed two production assistants and I was literally bored
Speaker 2: because there wasn't enough work to do, and I'd hassle
Speaker 2: the news director for things to do. So again, what's
Speaker 2: the foreign feeds? Tell me what you like? And at
Speaker 2: the time, I was doing a Bachelor of Business and
Speaker 2: I just loved it. So in a nutshell, I was
Speaker 2: encouraged to apply for a cadet ship, and I said,
Speaker 2: only if I can swap my degrees and you give
Speaker 2: me time off so that I can learn this job properly,
Speaker 2: even though you know I'd got my cadet ship. So
Speaker 2: I think I always felt like I was playing catch
Speaker 2: up and I wasn't born to be, you know, a journalist,
Speaker 2: let alone a newsreader, like that was the last thing
Speaker 2: I even considered. It all happened by accidents. So sometimes
Speaker 2: I think that's part of the straight jacket, is I
Speaker 2: always feel like I don't know enough.
Speaker 1: I love those sliding doors moments, and I think it's
Speaker 1: always great to hear because sometimes we assume that especially
Speaker 1: successful people knew exactly where they're going, because we do
Speaker 1: hear those stories a lot. I mean, people will write
Speaker 1: entire books about that. But I knew exactly what I wanted,
Speaker 1: came out of the womb, this was the plan. So
Speaker 1: many things in life happen because of unexpected detours and
Speaker 1: then finding our feet, and I think that's a really
Speaker 1: great thing for us to talk about a bit more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do think opportunities present themselves organically, and it's
Speaker 2: really about timing and where your head's at and if
Speaker 2: you have any clarity at the time about are you
Speaker 2: ready to receive that opportunity or can you see it?
Speaker 2: Other people can often see opportunities before you. As I said,
Speaker 2: it wasn't anything I ever wanted to do. And then
Speaker 2: fortunately for me, when i'd started in the newsroom in Brisbane,
Speaker 2: the Fitzgerial inquiry was underway and I was asked to
Speaker 2: basically be a supporter for our senior journalist who was
Speaker 2: down covering the Fitzgeral inquiry. And so I got to
Speaker 2: see really powerful journalism make a difference when I started
Speaker 2: in the newsroom. What gave me the fire when I
Speaker 2: you know, when I caught the bug, was to actually
Speaker 2: see the difference it made. You know, It's just so powerful.
Speaker 1: Being able to change something, bring an injustice to lights,
Speaker 1: see legislation, change seed decisions overturned. This is the absolute privilege, surely.
Speaker 2: Absolutely doing it, and that underscores everything and galvanizes me,
Speaker 2: you know, on a profound level, because I've seen that
Speaker 2: societal change that's been really important to the betterment of
Speaker 2: Australian's lives. Now I'm not responsible for that, but just
Speaker 2: being a part of that industry, I'm really really proud
Speaker 2: of I know when I started, I was really I
Speaker 2: loved news. I love the imitates immediacy of it. I
Speaker 2: love the fact that the next day a new chapter
Speaker 2: was written, or brand new chapters, brand new stories were written.
Speaker 2: And in those days, it was all about wanting to
Speaker 2: Beyana and who didn't want to be Jana because Jana
Speaker 2: was Yana. But I didn't want a career in long
Speaker 2: form journalism and all current affairs. I really I didn't.
Speaker 2: And I remembered them all telling me, well, you know,
Speaker 2: that's where you need to go, and I said no, no, nope, no, no,
Speaker 2: no nope. So then I went regional and went to
Speaker 2: Canberra and worked in a brand new newsroom. And then
Speaker 2: you know, ten went through another series of massinations and cutbacks,
Speaker 2: and basically I got hired because I didn't have to
Speaker 2: pay relocation fees. Could just you know, already living in Camera,
Speaker 2: I just moved up the hill anyway, thrown in the
Speaker 2: deep end federal politics. Didn't know anything about it. Hopeless,
Speaker 2: I was hopeless.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, if you don't mind me
Speaker 1: asking about it. You mentioned earlier an assault and that
Speaker 1: I was in nineteen ninety seven when you had come
Speaker 1: home from doing the late news one evening and you
Speaker 1: parked your car, and then we're getting out of your car.
Speaker 1: You were getting your handbag off the passenger seat and
Speaker 1: realized that you weren't alone, and you were knocked to
Speaker 1: the ground by a masked assailant who actually held a
Speaker 1: gun to your head and pulled the trigger not once
Speaker 1: but twice.
Speaker 2: Thank god the.
Speaker 1: Gun didn't go off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was very lucky.
Speaker 1: Spoke to Stella about this twenty years after the attack,
Speaker 1: and you said, you think maybe screaming You were screaming
Speaker 1: so loud may have saved you. He suddenly stopped, he
Speaker 1: led the car.
Speaker 2: I really believe that I was in a warehouse apartment
Speaker 2: at the time, and the garage driveway garages were was
Speaker 2: one long hallway of parking spots underneath two floors of apartments,
Speaker 2: but the windows to that parking space just had bars
Speaker 2: but windows. So there were little squattish cottages in Surrey
Speaker 2: Hills where I was living. And it was funny. I
Speaker 2: had a dream as a young woman most of my
Speaker 2: life about my most a really frightening experience, and that
Speaker 2: I would be trying to scream and nothing would come out.
Speaker 2: And at the time I remember screaming, and I was
Speaker 2: shocked that it was coming out, and I knew I
Speaker 2: found out within a day or two that the people
Speaker 2: next door had called the police. And because I was
Speaker 2: making so I didn't stop screaming. Despite him pistol whipping me.
Speaker 2: He ran. That was the only thing that saved me.
Speaker 2: I was lucky because he had a gun, ballet, clava
Speaker 2: and handcuffs, so he met business.
Speaker 1: And then you did go back to work, and you've
Speaker 1: spoke to sell. When we asked you about you said, yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously there's still things A loud noise will make you jump.
Speaker 1: Are very wary of your surroundings. I'm sure in multiple locations,
Speaker 1: but obviously in a car park we didn't necessarily understand.
Speaker 1: I don't think trauma at that time, even in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety seven, as we do now. Do you think that
Speaker 1: you do you look back and think, wow, I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously I got back to work, and is that something
Speaker 1: that you would treat any of it differently? Do you
Speaker 1: think that you gave yourself enough time to.
Speaker 2: Really Yeah, look, I do, and I think I needed
Speaker 2: to get back to work. I think I had about
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks off, three or four, perhaps because
Speaker 2: I couldn't. I couldn't go back to that apartment because
Speaker 2: I never found the person, and because I was doing
Speaker 2: night shift, I couldn't be home alone, so that we
Speaker 2: had to move our temporary accommodation. Then we had to
Speaker 2: try and find some real sleeve. I had a security
Speaker 2: detail for ten years every night when I got home,
Speaker 2: but that gave me real comfort. My marriage broke down
Speaker 2: not long after all of that, which was yeah, life
Speaker 2: shit sandwich, which happened sometimes. You know, you just got
Speaker 2: to work it out. I needed my job because I
Speaker 2: felt very alone and very vulnerable, and it was the
Speaker 2: one steady thing in my life that I could rely
Speaker 2: on as much as you can rely on being a
Speaker 2: journalist at a TV network, but I could. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: I didn't know that at the time, so I knew
Speaker 2: I had to just work really hard and turn up.
Speaker 2: But it got me through. It got me through when
Speaker 2: I was my most vulnerable. I had no family in Sydney,
Speaker 2: just some good friends. And as I said, my mean
Speaker 2: I got married, but we didn't. It didn't last very long.
Speaker 2: We've been together a long time, but when we got married,
Speaker 2: it didn't. It didn't work out, and that's okay, but
Speaker 2: you know, you are very vulnerable, and I think people
Speaker 2: do understand a lot more now that I could arguably
Speaker 2: call it PTSD to some description, to some degree. It's
Speaker 2: not a word or a term I've ever actually used
Speaker 2: before in relation to this, but it took me. When
Speaker 2: I spoke to Stella was the first time i'd spoken publicly.
Speaker 2: My close circle and family obviously knew what went down,
Speaker 2: but I really didn't want to draw attention to it.
Speaker 2: I didn't want this person. I don't believe that they
Speaker 2: had a clue that I was that woman on the news.
Speaker 2: I think they had done their homework and worked out.
Speaker 2: I was a target and I was gettable, but I
Speaker 2: didn't want to add any fuel to that fire of
Speaker 2: a person who worked out at all. They may it
Speaker 2: could have been me, and I wasn't going to found
Speaker 2: that in any way. So it was important for me
Speaker 2: not to really talk about it for two decades.
Speaker 1: And completely understandable as well.
Speaker 2: But I do feel completely over it as well, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know that I sit there every night
Speaker 2: on the news and a shit sandwich happens to someone
Speaker 2: nearly in every story. The first break part of my language,
Speaker 2: but somebody has not seen drama unfold that is life
Speaker 2: changing and horrendous or tragic, whatever it may be. I
Speaker 2: do know that you do have to seize the day,
Speaker 2: and you do have to believe that you've got to
Speaker 2: make the most of every day. So I know that
Speaker 2: what happened to me is nothing compared to what happens
Speaker 2: to a lot of other people. So you get perspective,
Speaker 2: put it in its right box, and get on with it.
Speaker 1: And from what you've said as your approach to media,
Speaker 1: it sounds as though you've always had a fairly strong
Speaker 1: sense of EmPATH human That's not the word that you've viewed,
Speaker 1: so that's possibly an observation that you would disagree with.
Speaker 1: But you've had that sense of humanity and understanding that
Speaker 1: people are dealing with shit sandwiches even before you had
Speaker 1: that harrowing experience in nineteen ninety seven. But did it
Speaker 1: sharpen that or did it change any way that you
Speaker 1: approach your role as a journalist.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think it changed anything. I think I'll
Speaker 2: give complete credit to my family and my parents the
Speaker 2: way I was brought up in the value system. That's
Speaker 2: always been important to me. You know, you're a human beings,
Speaker 2: as are all the people that are at the center
Speaker 2: of all of our stories. So you walk in their
Speaker 2: shoes for a second and you get a glimpse into
Speaker 2: how tough it can be. I'd like to think people
Speaker 2: can see that I get that and always have. That's
Speaker 2: really important to me.
Speaker 1: I think people would, and that that's why I wanted
Speaker 1: to say that. I think that empathy's always been there.
Speaker 1: I think it's a really valid experience with somebody, whatever industry,
Speaker 1: there is something happens that changes the way that they
Speaker 1: look at what other people go through. And we've all
Speaker 1: heard people say that. I mean, getting a diagnosis with
Speaker 1: the serious illness, for instance, can be a life changing
Speaker 1: event for a lot of people because, depending on what
Speaker 1: they'd been through at that point, it just completely opens
Speaker 1: their eyes to.
Speaker 2: The vulnerability of all of us.
Speaker 1: But some people always had that awareness, maybe because of
Speaker 1: things that they went through early on. You're not someone,
Speaker 1: from my observation, that had that before and after in
Speaker 1: terms of how you approached your job. So I really
Speaker 1: just wanted to know what your take on it was,
Speaker 1: and I think how you feel about it is certainly
Speaker 1: how I would have witnessed it from the outside.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am, well, I'm heartened to hear that that
Speaker 2: might be how it's perceived, but from my perspective, there's
Speaker 2: nothing content about it. You know, it's completely unconscious.
Speaker 1: You've always obviously not really sought the spotlight, and people
Speaker 1: always think it's unusual when you're in a job where
Speaker 1: you're on television every day, but I see it all
Speaker 1: the time in this job, and so I really am
Speaker 1: grateful that you've sat down with me today because I
Speaker 1: know that you know, you're not somebody that necessarily loves
Speaker 1: talking about yourself in this way.
Speaker 2: So let's throw forward a little bit to the future.
Speaker 1: I mean, it would be unfair of me to ask
Speaker 1: to see your thirty five year plan.
Speaker 2: We're talking about the.
Speaker 1: Last thirty five years, what's the next thirty five years?
Speaker 1: But what is the future plan for you? Do you?
Speaker 2: Well, I've never had a plan. I don't believe in plans.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: I know a lot of you know, lecturers will be
Speaker 2: very annoyed about trying to encourage people to have goals,
Speaker 2: and I think you should have goals, But my goal
Speaker 2: is always I love what I do, and when I
Speaker 2: stop loving what I'll do, I'll find something else, or
Speaker 2: the network will make a decision for me, and that's life,
Speaker 2: that's TV. I don't I just want to be happy
Speaker 2: and well, you know, your health is the greatest gift,
Speaker 2: and being happy is always a goal, you know, because
Speaker 2: we've all got our own dramas. You know, I lost
Speaker 2: my dad a year ago. You know, you can have
Speaker 2: an argument with your with your husband, or your wife
Speaker 2: or or your partner. All those things can derail you.
Speaker 2: You can get a bad medical diagnosis. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Just you know, my dad would always say, I woke
Speaker 2: up this morning. It's a good start. Yes, And I
Speaker 2: don't take that lightly. It's flippant. But life is incredibly
Speaker 2: fickle and can be incredibly harsh. So if I have
Speaker 2: the good fortune to keep doing what I'm doing with
Speaker 2: the people who really are family, in a job I
Speaker 2: absolutely love, with a network I haven't left for thirty
Speaker 2: five years, go me, pick me. I'm there. Well, I
Speaker 2: wish you all the best.
Speaker 1: I am looking forward to seeing what the next thirty
Speaker 1: five years brings. I mean, I think, as Ron Wilson said,
Speaker 1: you've got to be doing something right to survive in
Speaker 1: that sort of industry and survive with such grace and class.
Speaker 1: So Sandra Sully, thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker 2: Thank you Sarah for being gentle with me. I hope
Speaker 2: that I was.
Speaker 1: And of course you can watch Sandra Sually on ten
Speaker 1: News for Sydney week days from five.
Speaker 2: Pm on ten and ten Play. Indeed, thanks Sarah.
Speaker 1: Andre. You can also watch this interview of the Stellar
Speaker 1: podcast on YouTube by following the link in our show notes.
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me today. If you've enjoyed this episode,
Speaker 1: let us know by leaving a review and make sure
Speaker 1: you're following something to talk about, because we'll be back
Speaker 1: with another exclusive guest next time week.
Speaker 2: See you then,