1
00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:05,720
Speaker 1: Let's talk about people working in defense and a cash

2
00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,240
Speaker 1: bonus scheme to keep people in the military will be

3
00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:13,240
Speaker 1: expanded as part of a six hundred million dollar workforce

4
00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,080
Speaker 1: strategy the federal government is putting up due to announcer

5
00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,120
Speaker 1: recruitment retention package in addition to releasing the twenty twenty

6
00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,880
Speaker 1: four Defense Workforce Plan. That announcement coming soon from the

7
00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 1: Albanese government. So what it means, and I think this

8
00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,960
Speaker 1: has been going on for a while anyway, people in

9
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:34,640
Speaker 1: defense have been paid, as I understand, at twenty grand

10
00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:42,320
Speaker 1: to stay as a soldier, sub mariner, fighter pilot, whatever,

11
00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,479
Speaker 1: whatever the job is that you're doing. Being paid a

12
00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,240
Speaker 1: bonus to stay in defense. Is that the way to

13
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,360
Speaker 1: keep people in jobs? Now? I suppose for a defense

14
00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,040
Speaker 1: force we want people to be able to jump in

15
00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,080
Speaker 1: a plane or sail off into the sunset, or whatever

16
00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,200
Speaker 1: the case may be, crawl on through the desert to

17
00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,720
Speaker 1: aid the country. Let's talk about this. Michael Schubridge is

18
00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,880
Speaker 1: Director of Strategic Analysis Australia. Michael, this is not a

19
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:09,959
Speaker 1: new scheme, but I gather the amount is going to

20
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:10,560
Speaker 1: be ramped up.

21
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:16,440
Speaker 2: No, matthe the amounts being ramped down really fifty. They're

22
00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,160
Speaker 2: running what they call a pilot pretention bonus program, and

23
00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,360
Speaker 2: they're now extending it, but they're reducing it from fifteen

24
00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:24,679
Speaker 2: thousand to forty thousand.

25
00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:25,399
Speaker 1: So it was fifty.

26
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,039
Speaker 2: They're saying they'll give it to more people.

27
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,880
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, all right, so forty grand to more people.

28
00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,520
Speaker 1: So what does that mean? So it was only limited

29
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,119
Speaker 1: to what the specialists they wanted or people they thought

30
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:37,639
Speaker 1: were vital.

31
00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:43,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've been targeting it at junior and middle ranked people,

32
00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,080
Speaker 2: and that's probably good because they've got plenty of really

33
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,520
Speaker 2: senior ranked people and they keep making more senior positions

34
00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:55,000
Speaker 2: and those people are paid extraordinarily well. The people with

35
00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,320
Speaker 2: the critical skills that they need and experience they need

36
00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,920
Speaker 2: are not the most senior people. They're junior and middle

37
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,840
Speaker 2: ranked people, and they've been voting with their feet. They've

38
00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:09,679
Speaker 2: been leaving faster than defense can handle, and that's meant

39
00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:14,560
Speaker 2: they've had critical shortfalls, including things like crews for Navy ships,

40
00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,440
Speaker 2: and they've had difficulties putting to sea.

41
00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,040
Speaker 1: I suppose to some degree, businesses in general will do this.

42
00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,200
Speaker 1: They want to offer the best terms and conditions to

43
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,880
Speaker 1: good people to make them stay well.

44
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,840
Speaker 2: Yes, but there are enormous attractive packages already in place

45
00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,799
Speaker 2: for our military, you know, free dental care, free healthcare,

46
00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,959
Speaker 2: rental assistance, cheap home loans if they seek to buy

47
00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,120
Speaker 2: a house, salry rates that are more than competitive with

48
00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,919
Speaker 2: any other kind of government employment. Our military is much

49
00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:50,040
Speaker 2: better paid with much better packages than counterpart militaries like

50
00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,040
Speaker 2: say the UK or US. So it's not all about

51
00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,320
Speaker 2: the money. Some of it's about the kind of leadership

52
00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,600
Speaker 2: that they see in their organization and the lack of

53
00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,160
Speaker 2: account nobility that those senior leaders have shown. Whether it's

54
00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,480
Speaker 2: things like the Afghan War crimes where it was everybody

55
00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:11,840
Speaker 2: else's problem but the leaders and the veteran suicide Royal Commission.

56
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,440
Speaker 1: I might ask people in general, would you stick around

57
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,320
Speaker 1: if you are going to be paid a forty thousand

58
00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,000
Speaker 1: dollars bonus? Is it paid in one lump sum? Michael?

59
00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,200
Speaker 1: Do we know how does it work?

60
00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,200
Speaker 2: I'm not sure I think it is. And then they

61
00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,360
Speaker 2: commit to serving a few more years. But the problem

62
00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,960
Speaker 2: is if you've got these people really wanting to leave

63
00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,880
Speaker 2: and you need to bribe them to stay, you've got

64
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,960
Speaker 2: deeper problems in your organization. And this they put out

65
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,240
Speaker 2: a new plan thirty six pages of paper, and it

66
00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:47,200
Speaker 2: talks about continuing the transformation of the defense workforce. Well,

67
00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,880
Speaker 2: they haven't been transformed it. They've been failing for years

68
00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,320
Speaker 2: to grow the numbers and meant to have grown by

69
00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,920
Speaker 2: about five thousand people, they've grown by five hundred. So

70
00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 2: they have been failing. But they've been congratulating themselves on

71
00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,400
Speaker 2: their transformation, and they're just telling us this is going

72
00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,000
Speaker 2: to continue. Well, if you continue a failing path, you're

73
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:08,920
Speaker 2: going to keep failing.

74
00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,600
Speaker 1: It is a mess, isn't that. When we think about

75
00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,320
Speaker 1: what's being done and the colins class the story broke

76
00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,719
Speaker 1: on the weekend, there's only one operational submarine at the moment.

77
00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,159
Speaker 1: The other five are in for repairs and some with

78
00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:27,440
Speaker 1: serious long term issues like corrosion. Orcas is so far off.

79
00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,120
Speaker 1: We don't have any mid sort of range strategy, it seems,

80
00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,120
Speaker 1: and five hundred the growth of that is just going nowhere.

81
00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,640
Speaker 2: Well, think about what having those submarines tied up means

82
00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,520
Speaker 2: for the crews. They don't join to sit around and

83
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:46,120
Speaker 2: play cards. They join to deploy on submarines. So if

84
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,599
Speaker 2: the submarines are broken, we shouldn't be surprised when the

85
00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,120
Speaker 2: sailors want to leave. That is the problem that the

86
00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 2: services are facing. And they're not equipping our military with

87
00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 2: the kind of weapons and tools they know they need,

88
00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,120
Speaker 2: like armed and unarmed drones. So the bigger question is

89
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 2: why would you join and why would you stay? And

90
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:09,560
Speaker 2: a bribe isn't going to change that.

91
00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,160
Speaker 1: No, you're right, long term, I suspect that's absolutely correct.

92
00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,160
Speaker 1: So what's the thing to do, you know, to attract people.

93
00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,480
Speaker 1: I mean it used to be said you join and

94
00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,479
Speaker 1: travel the world and all of that as part of

95
00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,960
Speaker 1: your experience, but I don't know that's the answer either.

96
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,640
Speaker 2: Well, there was a successful recruiting approach which said the

97
00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:37,000
Speaker 2: Australian military smart people and smart machines. But to do that,

98
00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,760
Speaker 2: you have to equip them with the best weapons and

99
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:44,240
Speaker 2: technology and do that at speed. And everything that the

100
00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,560
Speaker 2: Defense Department is doing at the moment is off in

101
00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,159
Speaker 2: some distant point in the future, so young people aren't

102
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,200
Speaker 2: seeing that if they join they'll get the best equipment.

103
00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,520
Speaker 2: Injecting some cash into armed and unarmed drones, getting them

104
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,240
Speaker 2: into the hands of the military, that's what would excite

105
00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:02,960
Speaker 2: people to join and stay.

106
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,880
Speaker 1: And you're right, I mean the announcements in defense are

107
00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 1: for years ahead. There's usually no money in the forward

108
00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,880
Speaker 1: estimates for four years of that anyway, because they're so

109
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,039
Speaker 1: far off all these you know, and Orcas is the

110
00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,560
Speaker 1: classic example. We don't get a sub to the late

111
00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,320
Speaker 1: twenty thirties at the very earliest, if then, because of

112
00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,920
Speaker 1: delays in the UK and other places, and having the

113
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:24,680
Speaker 1: UK and the US trying to keep up with their

114
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,800
Speaker 1: own demand, let alone supplying Australia with subs, and so

115
00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,640
Speaker 1: we're a long long way off and nothing happening in

116
00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,200
Speaker 1: the interim. There's no, as I said earlier, no short term,

117
00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,599
Speaker 1: mid term strategy, it seems no.

118
00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,440
Speaker 2: And that is the people problem. People will not join

119
00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,360
Speaker 2: if they think they're not going to be doing useful things.

120
00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, not just about bonuses and cash for sure.

121
00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:51,440
Speaker 1: Appreciate your insights, Michael. Thank you. Michael Schubridge, Director of

122
00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,080
Speaker 1: Strategic Analysis Australia,