WEBVTT - Something is seriously wrong in the Northern Territory

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Daniel James and you're listening to 7am. One by one,

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<v Speaker 1>the Aboriginal leaders, organisations and watchdogs the Northern Territory Government

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<v Speaker 1>is supposed to work with are walking away. The Children's

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<v Speaker 1>Commissioner has resigned, an Indigenous MP left Parliament after more

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<v Speaker 1>than a decade and now almost the entire Aboriginal side

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<v Speaker 1>of the Territory's Justice Policy Partnership has suspended its involvement.

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<v Speaker 1>they're all making a remarkably similar complaint that the government

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<v Speaker 1>isn't listening and the structures that are supposedly designed to

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<v Speaker 1>give Aboriginal people a say have become meaningless. Today, National

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<v Speaker 1>Indigenous Times journalist Declan Brennan on how relations got this

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<v Speaker 1>bad and whether a government can tackle the territory's enormous

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<v Speaker 1>problems if the people most affected no longer believe there's

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<v Speaker 1>any point sitting at the table. It's Monday, September 14. Declan,

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<v Speaker 1>it felt like a mass exodus of First Nation leaders

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<v Speaker 1>in the Northern Territory these last few months. What can

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<v Speaker 1>you tell me about the people who have left and

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<v Speaker 1>what's driven them to that decision?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so quite a diverse group of people other than Aboriginality.

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<v Speaker 2>Charlene Musk, Child Commissioner. I'm an imminent barrister, former Crown prosecutor.

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<v Speaker 2>She was child commissioner for several years. She walked away

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<v Speaker 2>in the wake of the child protection laws.

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<v Speaker 3>There are a lot of issues with the child protection

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<v Speaker 3>system that we're not addressing. This is a real distraction

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<v Speaker 3>as far as I'm concerned from the underlying issues, the

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<v Speaker 3>systemic issues. And I tried to explain that in the

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<v Speaker 3>other submissions. So there's been attempts to help inform a

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<v Speaker 3>more robust analysis review of the child protection system to

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<v Speaker 3>ensure we're actually addressing the systemic issues. And that's all

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<v Speaker 3>been sidelined now.

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<v Speaker 2>We've seen Yinyi Gula, who's been an independent MP from Malka,

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<v Speaker 2>a Yolngu man, MP for 10 years. He walked away

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<v Speaker 2>in the middle of August, basically citing an inability to

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<v Speaker 2>work alongside the Northern Territory government. But he used some

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<v Speaker 2>really pointed language, including some of their laws, as a

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<v Speaker 2>slow genocide of Aboriginal people.

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<v Speaker 4>Arnhem Land Yolngu leader Yinyi Gula has resigned, blaming successive

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<v Speaker 4>anti-governments for refusing to listen to Indigenous concerns, accusing the

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<v Speaker 4>CLP government of passing too many laws that are dehumanising,

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<v Speaker 4>oppressing and destroying our communities, contributing to a slow genocide.

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<v Speaker 4>He's particularly angry about child protection changes deprioritising Aboriginal family placements.

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<v Speaker 5>They have always said, yeah, we think we know what's

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<v Speaker 5>best for you.

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<v Speaker 2>And we've just recently seen the Justice Partnership suspend its

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<v Speaker 2>actions for six months. I think this is a really

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<v Speaker 2>important thing that doesn't get talked about enough, is that

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<v Speaker 2>working alongside Aboriginal people is actually the basis of the

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<v Speaker 2>Closing the Gap Agreement. And by suspending this body from

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<v Speaker 2>these non-government organisations, which there have been seven or eight,

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<v Speaker 2>is accepting that they're unable to work alongside the Northern

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<v Speaker 2>Territory government in even remotely the same sort of capacity.

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<v Speaker 2>But we've seen land councils come out and say that

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<v Speaker 2>the government are treating us like children.

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<v Speaker 6>So these withdrawals that we've seen recently.

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<v Speaker 2>Is perhaps the latest move of it, but they have

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<v Speaker 2>been saying in terms of these larger or small.

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<v Speaker 6>Organisations for quite a while now that we've had enough.

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<v Speaker 1>So they're people from very different backgrounds and different positions,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're basically saying the same thing, that we were

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<v Speaker 1>supposed to have a meaningful role in these decisions and

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<v Speaker 1>these processes, but we no longer believe we do.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. And I think in the case of Miss Musk,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a statutory role. that she was required to give

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<v Speaker 2>advice to the government. She was putting out reports. She

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<v Speaker 2>was very open in her, not criticism of a particular government,

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<v Speaker 2>but criticism of systems and processes. Not only was she

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<v Speaker 2>sidelined for most of it, but she was openly criticized

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<v Speaker 2>as being political. Whilst in the case of the Justice Forum,

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<v Speaker 2>their role is to have conversations with the government to

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<v Speaker 2>what is meant to be on an equal footing. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's become clear for quite a long time that that's

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<v Speaker 2>not the case.

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<v Speaker 1>So how did things get to this point? When the

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<v Speaker 1>CLP came to power just over two years ago, what

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<v Speaker 1>kind of relationship did the government already have with Aboriginal organisations,

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<v Speaker 1>leaders and independent bodies in the Territory?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think we have to be realistic that

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<v Speaker 2>the power and balance between governments and Aboriginal people, especially

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<v Speaker 2>in the Northern Territory, is never going to be on

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<v Speaker 2>an equal footing. That's obviously the reality. I think it

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<v Speaker 2>had been better than it is now, clearly, but the

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<v Speaker 2>relationship at least had a degree of communication and equal

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<v Speaker 2>sort of partnership after the closing agreement was signed under

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<v Speaker 2>the Morrison government. But the sense was that the Labor

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<v Speaker 2>government had been falling apart. And I think we saw

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<v Speaker 2>that as it came up to the 2024 election, that

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<v Speaker 2>crime was a big issue. But the government was on

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<v Speaker 2>its last legs, and we did see that when the

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<v Speaker 2>CLP was elected. But to go back to your original question,

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<v Speaker 2>I do believe that the relationship, whilst never was a

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<v Speaker 2>lot better than it is now, or at least had

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<v Speaker 2>the facade of equal conversation.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so Leo Finocchiaro won the election promising to go

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<v Speaker 1>much harder on crime.

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<v Speaker 7>Territorians have used their voice to stand up against Labor

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<v Speaker 7>who have taken them for granted for far too long.

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<v Speaker 7>Territorians have stood up against nearly two decades of escalating crime,

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<v Speaker 7>an economy going backwards and the erosion of our once

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<v Speaker 7>iconic lifestyle.

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<v Speaker 1>They introduced tougher new laws and as a result, incarcerations increase,

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<v Speaker 1>more Indigenous youth are locked up and they're put in

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<v Speaker 1>watch houses. Tell me about some of the laws and

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<v Speaker 1>their impact, Declan.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so ironically, actually, one of the landmark decisions that

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<v Speaker 2>all the Territory Labor Government did was raise the age

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<v Speaker 2>of criminal responsibility to 12. It became the first jurisdiction

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<v Speaker 2>in Australia to do that. On the first sitting day

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<v Speaker 2>of Parliament, the CLP, they reduced it back to 10,

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<v Speaker 2>which as far as I know is the only country

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<v Speaker 2>in the world or jurisdiction in the world.

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<v Speaker 6>That's ever done that.

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<v Speaker 2>But they ran on a tough-on-crime mantra, and their argument

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<v Speaker 2>was things like that. They introduced some bail laws, some

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<v Speaker 2>ram raid laws. There was some knife laws. That was

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<v Speaker 2>all introduced very quickly. What we did see was a

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<v Speaker 2>massive increase in a very short time of incarceration to

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<v Speaker 2>now the fact that the Northern Territory, more than 1%

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<v Speaker 2>of the population is incarcerated. The overwhelming majority of those

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<v Speaker 2>people were Aboriginal. And about half of them are held

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<v Speaker 2>on remand, which means they have not been found guilty

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<v Speaker 2>of the crime they've been charged for. A lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the people being held in inhumane conditions, 20-plus women in

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<v Speaker 2>Alice Springs watch houses being held together in one cell, children,

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<v Speaker 2>like 11-year-olds being kept in facilities where violent adult defenders

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<v Speaker 2>are next to them with bright lights 24-7.

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<v Speaker 6>But on a.

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<v Speaker 2>Sort of a bigger stand, what you're seeing is a

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<v Speaker 2>breakdown of any form of rehabilitation. And that's been ignored

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<v Speaker 2>or it's been almost castigated as woke or an apologist offender.

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<v Speaker 2>We've seen at one point quite a lot of paediatricians

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<v Speaker 2>wrote in to the government saying that the damage that

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<v Speaker 2>these laws are doing to children, and Leah Finocchiaro actually

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<v Speaker 2>came out and was very open saying they can write

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<v Speaker 2>letters to the cows come home, I'm not going to listen.

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<v Speaker 6>And almost Trumpian in their attacks on these.

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<v Speaker 2>People who are, by the way, a very broad spectrum

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<v Speaker 2>of of people who are opposed to these laws, including

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<v Speaker 2>family of eminent former barristers in the Northern Territory, of

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<v Speaker 2>human rights lawyers, but also just land councils and everyday

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<v Speaker 2>Aboriginal people.

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<v Speaker 1>And as these tough on crime measures have been rolled out,

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<v Speaker 1>what are the Aboriginal organisations working in the justice system

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<v Speaker 1>telling the government?

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<v Speaker 2>I think they've been saying the same thing since day one,

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<v Speaker 2>which is if you lock up people willy-nilly, they will

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<v Speaker 2>not get rehabilitated. especially younger people. If you treat them

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<v Speaker 2>the way that they're being treated, it will make the

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<v Speaker 2>territory more dangerous in the future because you will give

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<v Speaker 2>young people, make them hardened criminals. One thing that isn't

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<v Speaker 2>discussed too is a lot of these children, especially who

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<v Speaker 2>are being locked up, have severe disabilities. We're talking fetal

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<v Speaker 2>alcohol syndrome. We're talking a lot of them have gone

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<v Speaker 2>through child protection. A lot of them have cognitive disabilities

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<v Speaker 2>and intellectual disabilities. There is no help for these people.

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<v Speaker 2>These very vulnerable children who should be supported are being

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<v Speaker 2>thrown in facilities designed for the worst offenders. And all

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<v Speaker 2>that is doing is going to make them bad offenders

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<v Speaker 2>in the future. But there doesn't seem to be any

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<v Speaker 2>thought about their future or the future of the territory.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up, the law change advocates say could lead to

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<v Speaker 1>another stolen generation. Declan, the breakdown hasn't just been confined

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<v Speaker 1>to justice policy. Earlier this year, a crisis in the

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<v Speaker 1>Territory's child protection system opened up after the death of

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<v Speaker 1>five-year-old Kumanjai Little Baby, and the government moved to overhaul

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<v Speaker 1>the system. Can you take us through what happened and

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<v Speaker 1>what the government started to roll out in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>its reforms to the child protection system?

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, very briefly, the death of five-year-old Kumanjai Little

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<v Speaker 2>Baby was an absolute tragedy. I think we've seen it

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<v Speaker 2>she was allegedly abducted and murdered, and we see a

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<v Speaker 2>man who's being held currently in custody, and that will

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<v Speaker 2>go through the courts. But the government, in the wake

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<v Speaker 2>of that, released legislation around child protection that they had

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<v Speaker 2>canvassed for more than 12 months. We saw these laws,

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<v Speaker 2>this overhaul went to a parliamentary inquiry, and the overwhelming

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<v Speaker 2>majority of organisations, individuals and experts completely oppose it. Of

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<v Speaker 2>the 150 submissions, 120 were completely against the law. They

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<v Speaker 2>had a day of hearing, which one person told me

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<v Speaker 2>yesterday was just a ticking box exercise, and then the

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<v Speaker 2>government-dominated inquiry recommended they pass. There hasn't been, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think for a long time, the level of hostility from

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<v Speaker 2>people about it, as I think many people expected. The

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<v Speaker 2>NT is often out of sight, out of mind, but

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<v Speaker 2>the blatantness of passing these laws with so many people

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<v Speaker 2>opposed was second to none. And the government, in many ways,

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<v Speaker 2>was very disingenuous. Anytime there was criticism, it came along

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<v Speaker 2>the lines of, oh, don't you care about children?

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<v Speaker 6>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Leah Finocchiaro at one point said she doesn't have to

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<v Speaker 2>justify these policies. She's trying to help children. She's almost

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<v Speaker 2>saying the quiet part out loud.

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<v Speaker 8>I mean, for goodness sakes, I don't have to justify this.

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<v Speaker 8>This has been done with the best interest of a

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<v Speaker 8>child at heart. The CLP is putting the safety of

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<v Speaker 8>a child first. If everyone else is putting culture above safety,

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<v Speaker 8>then that's a matter for them. I'm not apologising for it.

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<v Speaker 8>This is done. It is law now and we are

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<v Speaker 8>implementing it. And that's the end of the story.

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<v Speaker 1>And I guess at the heart of the concern is

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<v Speaker 1>that the government changed child protection laws in a way

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<v Speaker 1>critics say weakened the requirement to prioritise Aboriginal family, kin

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<v Speaker 1>and community. And the fear from their perspective is that

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<v Speaker 1>this could lead to another stolen generation.

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<v Speaker 6>Absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the entire basis of it, is that this child

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<v Speaker 2>placement principle was brought in after the Bringing Them Home report,

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<v Speaker 2>which canvassed and spoke about the experiences of members of

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<v Speaker 2>the stolen generation.

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<v Speaker 6>And it has been completely... disregarded the.

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<v Speaker 2>Government might pretend it hasn't but that is the reality

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<v Speaker 2>of what it is and the fears are real we've

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<v Speaker 2>seen uh recent aboriginal child commissioner suan hunter say basically

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<v Speaker 2>this that the removal of this principle makes the likelihood

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<v Speaker 2>of another stolen generation much more apparent and that's not

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<v Speaker 2>a a hyperbolic fear that's a real concern especially with

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<v Speaker 2>a government that has seemed to disregard the concerns of others.

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<v Speaker 8>The decision is a bad decision by Leah Finocchiaro, the

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<v Speaker 8>Chief Minister of the Northern Territory.

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<v Speaker 3>Let him go!

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<v Speaker 6>Let him go!

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<v Speaker 5>The Northern Territory's new administrator has officially been sworn in

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<v Speaker 5>in Darwin after weeks of controversy over his appointment.

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<v Speaker 1>There was another flashpoint earlier this year, not to do

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<v Speaker 1>with policy, but with the appointment of David Connolly as

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<v Speaker 1>the NT's administrator. Why did his appointment cause so much

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<v Speaker 1>anger amongst some people?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so David Connolly's role as the administrator, that is

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<v Speaker 2>the equivalent of a state governor or the federal governor general.

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<v Speaker 6>He's the king's representative.

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<v Speaker 2>Former tweets had come out of him being highly critical

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<v Speaker 2>of Aboriginal people to the point of what a lot

0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:55.580
<v Speaker 2>of people would.

0:12:55.500 --> 0:12:56.780
<v Speaker 6>Describe as racist tweets.

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<v Speaker 2>And.

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<v Speaker 6>The response was pretty visceral.

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<v Speaker 2>We saw protests outside Parliament featuring federal politicians, including Ligyari

0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:06.040
<v Speaker 2>MP Marion Scrimshaw.

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<v Speaker 5>When he made the comment, if I wasn't so rooted,

0:13:09.059 --> 0:13:11.679
<v Speaker 5>I'd go home and beat my wife. Now, for a

0:13:11.750 --> 0:13:14.500
<v Speaker 5>lot of women, you know, in the Northern Territory, we

0:13:14.540 --> 0:13:19.130
<v Speaker 5>have high levels of domestic and family violence. Comments like

0:13:19.210 --> 0:13:21.150
<v Speaker 5>that is completely offensive.

0:13:21.470 --> 0:13:24.310
<v Speaker 2>And we saw people openly calling, why is this happening?

0:13:24.890 --> 0:13:27.550
<v Speaker 2>The territory is a third Aboriginal, far more than any

0:13:27.590 --> 0:13:30.130
<v Speaker 2>other state or territory. And you've got someone representing them

0:13:31.050 --> 0:13:35.440
<v Speaker 2>as the council to the king who has said things

0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.440
<v Speaker 2>that are truly disgusting. And not just about Aboriginal people,

0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.100
<v Speaker 2>about the LGBTQ community.

0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:45.099
<v Speaker 4>In a plethora of social media posts, David Connolly has

0:13:45.220 --> 0:13:50.199
<v Speaker 4>criticised Indigenous welcome to country ceremonies. and questioned whether female

0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:53.840
<v Speaker 4>athletes are really men. He joked about going home to

0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:59.340
<v Speaker 4>commit domestic violence, so-called prison man-on-man love, and using the

0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:00.920
<v Speaker 4>drug rehypnol for rape.

0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.030
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't that long ago that that would have immediately

0:14:03.050 --> 0:14:05.709
<v Speaker 2>been a get rid of and we'll find somebody else.

0:14:05.770 --> 0:14:08.430
<v Speaker 2>But the government sort of doubled down, said this guy's

0:14:08.450 --> 0:14:11.260
<v Speaker 2>a great person, everyone can make mistakes, even though at

0:14:11.290 --> 0:14:13.320
<v Speaker 2>the time he had not apologised for these mistakes.

0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:13.700
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:14:14.220 --> 0:14:16.420
<v Speaker 2>And it really did cause a large consternation. And I

0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:20.820
<v Speaker 2>think it was the openness of the fact that somebody

0:14:20.860 --> 0:14:24.780
<v Speaker 2>who had said such appalling things was just being greenlit

0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:28.590
<v Speaker 2>to take on a very highly paid statutory position without

0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.180
<v Speaker 2>any sort of care about the community. And we did

0:14:31.230 --> 0:14:32.870
<v Speaker 2>see the land councils come out and openly say, we're

0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:34.330
<v Speaker 2>not going to talk to him. We're not going to

0:14:34.350 --> 0:14:36.890
<v Speaker 2>deal with him. And you sort of wonder then what

0:14:36.950 --> 0:14:40.270
<v Speaker 2>sort of relationship this person who's meant to deal with

0:14:40.310 --> 0:14:42.470
<v Speaker 2>all territories can have when a significant.

0:14:42.030 --> 0:14:45.580
<v Speaker 6>Part of the population... has been previously victimised by him.

0:14:46.020 --> 0:14:48.760
<v Speaker 1>So where do you see things going from here, Declan?

0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:52.380
<v Speaker 1>There seems to be a complete breakdown between a lot

0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:56.590
<v Speaker 1>of Aboriginal organisations and the government itself. With the breakdown

0:14:56.810 --> 0:14:59.270
<v Speaker 1>of those relationships, what does all that mean for things

0:14:59.310 --> 0:15:00.510
<v Speaker 1>like self-determination?

0:15:00.530 --> 0:15:05.620
<v Speaker 6>Oh, I think it wrecks it, disregards it completely.

0:15:06.140 --> 0:15:09.020
<v Speaker 2>So the future is pretty, I don't want to say bleak,

0:15:09.180 --> 0:15:12.739
<v Speaker 2>but it's tough to see where the next step is because...

0:15:13.340 --> 0:15:17.380
<v Speaker 2>One of the biggest surprises, I suppose, has been the

0:15:17.460 --> 0:15:21.210
<v Speaker 2>lack of care from the CLP government when these criticisms

0:15:21.250 --> 0:15:25.310
<v Speaker 2>have come out, when groups have withdrawn, when open criticism. Normally,

0:15:25.990 --> 0:15:28.630
<v Speaker 2>even if it's lip service to try and fix these things,

0:15:28.690 --> 0:15:31.070
<v Speaker 2>and it hasn't. They've just shrugged their shoulders and gone, well,

0:15:31.090 --> 0:15:34.080
<v Speaker 2>we'll just move along without you. So there is a

0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:36.640
<v Speaker 2>real worry, I think, that the longer this goes on,

0:15:36.660 --> 0:15:40.720
<v Speaker 2>the longer this government, halfway through its parliamentary term, operates

0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:45.490
<v Speaker 2>without sort of a sense of boundary towards Aboriginal people,

0:15:46.210 --> 0:15:49.450
<v Speaker 2>that things will only get worse. And you also have

0:15:49.470 --> 0:15:51.710
<v Speaker 2>to look at the dichotomy that in the CLP government,

0:15:51.810 --> 0:15:55.190
<v Speaker 2>there is not one Aboriginal MP. They're making decisions for

0:15:55.250 --> 0:15:57.950
<v Speaker 2>Aboriginal people, whilst on the Labor side, whilst they don't

0:15:57.970 --> 0:15:58.710
<v Speaker 2>have many people in.

0:15:58.670 --> 0:16:00.270
<v Speaker 6>Parliament, all but one are Aboriginal.

0:16:01.010 --> 0:16:04.160
<v Speaker 2>Now, there is a call from a lot of people,

0:16:04.260 --> 0:16:05.840
<v Speaker 2>not just in the NT, but across the country, for

0:16:05.860 --> 0:16:08.560
<v Speaker 2>the federal government to get involved in some aspects. The

0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:12.360
<v Speaker 2>federal government or the Commonwealth... funds 80% of the Northern Territory,

0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:14.540
<v Speaker 2>far more than anyone else. They also have more legislative

0:16:15.380 --> 0:16:18.240
<v Speaker 2>levers because it is a territory, not a state. There's

0:16:18.260 --> 0:16:20.200
<v Speaker 2>also been legal advice to say that they can get

0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:22.880
<v Speaker 2>involved in some parts of youth justice so Australia can

0:16:23.340 --> 0:16:26.160
<v Speaker 2>meet its human rights obligations, which the Northern Territory is

0:16:26.260 --> 0:16:28.980
<v Speaker 2>not doing, especially around youth justice and raising the age.

0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.380
<v Speaker 2>But if that doesn't happen, and the Prime Minister has

0:16:32.420 --> 0:16:35.910
<v Speaker 2>been pretty open that it's unlikely to, it's tough to

0:16:35.990 --> 0:16:38.640
<v Speaker 2>see any any positive. I think the people on the

0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.660
<v Speaker 2>ground are working incredibly hard. You talk to them regularly

0:16:41.700 --> 0:16:44.260
<v Speaker 2>and they come out and they're sort of, they are hopeful.

0:16:44.350 --> 0:16:48.950
<v Speaker 2>But when Charlene Musk resigned, she said that she had

0:16:48.970 --> 0:16:51.790
<v Speaker 2>just been broken down, basically. She had no more to

0:16:51.830 --> 0:16:54.290
<v Speaker 2>give because she had been so open in trying to

0:16:54.310 --> 0:16:56.750
<v Speaker 2>support children and nobody was listening. And I think that

0:16:56.810 --> 0:16:59.390
<v Speaker 2>is the reality for a lot of groups, big and

0:16:59.460 --> 0:17:01.960
<v Speaker 2>small statutory or not, that nobody's listening.

0:17:06.290 --> 0:17:07.690
<v Speaker 1>Declan, thank you so much for your time.

0:17:07.710 --> 0:17:08.730
<v Speaker 6>Appreciate it. Thank you.

0:17:11.010 --> 0:17:13.290
<v Speaker 1>This episode is part of a special week of coverage

0:17:13.330 --> 0:17:16.700
<v Speaker 1>by Independent Media, putting a spotlight on the Northern Territory,

0:17:17.420 --> 0:17:20.020
<v Speaker 1>a part of this country which is too often overlooked.

0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.430
<v Speaker 1>Also in the news, Pauline Hanson is copying criticism from

0:17:33.470 --> 0:17:36.850
<v Speaker 1>Labor and Liberal MPs over some resurfaced comments she made

0:17:36.869 --> 0:17:40.910
<v Speaker 1>about Anthony Albanese's dead mother. Hansen said it wasn't on

0:17:40.970 --> 0:17:43.820
<v Speaker 1>that the PM's mum had lived in public housing for decades,

0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:47.560
<v Speaker 1>saying housing commissions should have a limited time frame. The

0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:49.840
<v Speaker 1>PM has hit back saying he's stunned at the comments

0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:52.540
<v Speaker 1>and that his mother was way out of Pauline Hansen's league,

0:17:53.140 --> 0:17:56.160
<v Speaker 1>while Liberal MP Andrew Hastie says Hansen should leave mums

0:17:56.359 --> 0:18:00.820
<v Speaker 1>out of it. An anthropic boss, Dario Amodei, has called

0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.109
<v Speaker 1>on AI companies to slow down their development. He worries

0:18:04.190 --> 0:18:07.189
<v Speaker 1>rogue AI agents could be capable of taking over the

0:18:07.230 --> 0:18:11.210
<v Speaker 1>entire internet within 6 to 12 months, calling for greater oversight.

0:18:11.810 --> 0:18:15.540
<v Speaker 1>OpenAI boss Sam Altman and Elon Musk, who owns XAI,

0:18:15.580 --> 0:18:17.980
<v Speaker 1>have chimed in, saying they agree that we need to

0:18:18.020 --> 0:18:21.420
<v Speaker 1>pace the new frontier. I'm Daniel James. Thanks for listening

0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:23.500
<v Speaker 1>to 7am. We'll be back tomorrow.