1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,719 Speaker 1: This podcast was recorded on the land of the Gatigel 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: people of the Uran Nation. 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to the Real Story with Joe Hildebrand. 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 2: And we've finally cracked a big one. We've got it 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 2: for you, ladies and gentlemen. We have the real story 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 2: behind the drones, the thousands of drones that have lit 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 2: up the night sky of New Jersey, because where else 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: would you go if you're an alien armada planning to 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 2: invade Earth. We've actually got an expert who knows what's 10 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 2: going on. Also, we're going to get to the bottom 11 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: of this nuclear fiasco that has literally almost gone nuclear? 12 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: Well has it literally gone nuclear? Otherwise we'd all be dead? 13 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 2: And how many flags should a political leader stand in 14 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 2: front of when they're giving a press conference. You thought 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: you were suffering through a cost of living crisis. You 16 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: had no idea what the real issues are facing this 17 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 2: all that more coming up now. First up this week, 18 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 2: I want to get to the nuclear debate because obviously 19 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 2: the future of our entire species depends on whether or 20 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: not we transition to net zero missions by the year 21 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: twenty fifty. I'm not one to question the science, so 22 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: I just do it. I'm told Thank you very much. 23 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: But Peter Tutton reckons that he can get there, or 24 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 2: at least get a serious chunk of the way there, 25 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 2: via his nuclear program. And this, of course is his 26 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: plan to fire up seven nuclear reactors, which is to say, 27 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: build seven nuclear reactors, which is to say, get permission 28 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 2: to build seven nuclear reactors, which is to say, get 29 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 2: his own premiers to agree to lift their ban on 30 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 2: said nuclear reactors in their respective states, let alone all 31 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 2: the labor premiers, and then of course get them all 32 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: moving and emitting zero emissions energy. So this is a 33 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 2: fairly ambitious plan, to say the least. But Peter Dutton 34 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: did finally release his costings of this program, and it came, 35 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: in surprise, surprise, below the cost of Labour's renewable energy program, 36 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: or did it. Well, let's go through just a few 37 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 2: of the round numbers. We'll keep it nice and simple 38 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 2: so everyone can get their heads around it. Peter Dutton 39 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 2: says that his nuclear program will cost around three hundred 40 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 2: and thirty billion dollars. Sounds like a lot of bananas, 41 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 2: doesn't it. But he says that Labour's renewable energy program, 42 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 2: which is all solar and wind, will cost about six 43 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 2: hundred billion dollars. Now, that is obviously a pretty significant saving. 44 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 2: It's a bit over forty percent less than what Labor 45 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 2: is saying that its renewable energy program is going to cost. 46 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 2: But here is the first catch, which is that is 47 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 2: not what Labor is saying its renewable energy program is 48 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: going to cost. That's what the Coalition is saying Labour's 49 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 2: renewable energy program is going to cost. So this is 50 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 2: the first issue with the costings. It's not comparing the 51 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: coalition's own costings of the coalition's policy or the costings 52 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: that it commissioned Frontier Economics to do. It is not 53 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 2: comparing the coalition's costings of its policy with Labour's costings 54 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: of its policy. It's comparing the coalitions costings of the 55 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: coalition's policy with the coalitions costings of Labor policy. Are 56 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 2: you keeping up right? So that is the first thing, 57 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: and this is where things get really fun because the 58 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: Coalition is using an outfit called Frontier Economics to do 59 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 2: its costings, and that's great. People use different outfits to 60 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 2: do modeling and costings all the time, and you can 61 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 2: basically determine what outcomes you are going to get by 62 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: what inputs you put into the modeling, what inputs you 63 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: put into the costings. 64 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: You can say, right, but what if you know, but what. 65 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 2: If they had to build twice as many transmission lines 66 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 2: as they are saying they are going to build, or 67 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: what if you do this if that, and you can 68 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 2: slice it or dice it as they say. 69 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: There are lies, damn lines. 70 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 2: And statistics, And then of course there's modeling, so you 71 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 2: can sort of get whatever you want, but you're usually 72 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 2: going to go for a modeler or commission modeling or 73 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: determine the parameters of modeling that obviously best suits you, 74 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 2: best suits your model, best suits your policy, and best 75 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: suits their position that you want to create. So if 76 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: you want someone to say that nuclear is more cheap 77 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: than renewables, chances are you'll be able to find a 78 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: modeler and some modeling that says that, and likewise, vice versa, 79 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 2: which is why both sides say no minds to, but 80 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 2: no mind's to, but no mind's cheap. But here's the data, 81 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: No mind's cheap. Here's the data, here's the modeling, here's 82 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 2: the research, here's the costings. So that's just politics, that's 83 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 2: just normal. But the point is that the Coalition is 84 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 2: not comparing what its program is going to cost with 85 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 2: what Labor says its program is going to cost. It's 86 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: costing both of them with its own guys, and of 87 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: course it comes out cheaper. But there's another twist in 88 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: the tail because Frontier Economics is the same firm that 89 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: the Coalition commissioned to cost Labour's policies, the same policies, 90 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 2: same program a month earlier in November, just before it 91 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 2: released its nuclear costings, and Frontier Economics cost Labour's program. 92 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 2: It's something like five times what Labour said it was 93 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: going to be. I think Labor said it was going 94 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 2: to be about one hundred and twenty billion dollars, and 95 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 2: they said, oh no, no, no, no, it's going to be 96 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 2: six hundred and fifty billion dollars, which is a lot more. 97 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: I'm just an art student, but even I know that 98 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 2: is a lot more. But now with the revised figures 99 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:03,799 Speaker 2: of Frontier Economics that compares Labor's policy to the newly 100 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: released Coalition policy, they're saying that Labour's policy will only 101 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 2: cost six hundred billion dollars bit under In fact, I 102 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: think five hundred and ninety something. 103 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 3: Wow. 104 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: What's a few billion between friends. 105 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 2: But that is about fifty billion dollars cheaper than what 106 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 2: they said Labor's policy was going to cost just a 107 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: month earlier. So again this gives you an idea of 108 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 2: how sort of I won't say robbery, but how malleable, 109 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 2: how fluid such modeling can be. So Labor, somehow, by 110 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: doing absolutely nothing, has just managed to save fifty billion 111 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 2: dollars by just sitting there with its own policy, which 112 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: it says is twenty percent of that anyway, while suddenly 113 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 2: the costs that the other lot are projecting on it 114 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: have just suddenly come down. Just got fifty BILLI in 115 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: the pocket, not about resalt for a month's worth. So 116 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 2: that is just the first two things you need to 117 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: know about the costings. One that it's the coalition's costings 118 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: compared to what the coalition says that Labor is going 119 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 2: to cost, not the coalition's costings compared to Labour's costings. 120 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: And secondly, what the coalition says that Labor's is going 121 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 2: to cost has already come down by fifty billion dollars 122 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 2: in a month. This is just wild stuff. This is great. 123 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: I feel rich just talking about it, which my mortgage 124 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 2: work like that. But the third thing is that the 125 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 2: coalition isn't actually going to build as much electricity or 126 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: generate as much electricity with what it builds as Labor 127 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: is planning to. So you have AEMO, which is the 128 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 2: Australian Energy Market Operator, and look, I'm doing my best 129 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: to make this sexy for you here. Okay, you've got 130 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 2: AEMO says that they're going to need something like I 131 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 2: don't know whatever it is, four hundred terawa hours or something. 132 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: No one understands what it is anyway, so it doesn't 133 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 2: really matter. The point is that the coalition's plan is 134 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: actually going to build enough infrastructure nuclear plus you know 135 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 2: they're going to have renewables as well, wind and sol 136 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: all in the mix, right, and you know, good on them. 137 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 2: If nuclear works out, I have no problem with it whatsoever. 138 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: But all the stuff combined that they are going to 139 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 2: build is actually going to produce a bit over forty 140 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 2: percent less power than Labour's plan, and therefore will cost 141 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 2: a bit over forty percent less than Labour's plan by 142 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 2: its own reckoning. So even by its own guys, even 143 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 2: if we trust completely that its own guys are completely 144 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 2: right about what it's going to cost for all the 145 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 2: things that they're going to build versus all the things 146 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 2: that labor is going to build. Theirs is a bit 147 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 2: over forty percent cheaper for a bit over forty percent 148 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 2: less electricity, which again kind of makes it a lineball. 149 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: And one of the ways that this was explained was 150 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 2: exactly the way that I explained Peter Dutton's nuclear policy 151 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 2: on this podcast for this podcast all those months ago 152 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 2: when it was first announced, which was on a whiteboard, 153 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 2: except this time it was the actual Energy Minister, Chris Bowen, 154 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 2: scribbling on a whiteboard explaining it instead of me scribbling 155 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: on a whiteboard explaining it, and his handwriting was a 156 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 2: little bit better. But anyway, that is the real story 157 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: on nuclear costings. Everything you need to know. Now, just 158 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 2: go and switch the lights on and enjoy your sun lamp. Now. 159 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 2: Another big move that Peter Dutton came up with in 160 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 2: the last week or so was that he was not 161 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 2: going to feature any Aboriginal or Torres Strait island of 162 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: flags in any public appearances that he does, which he 163 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 2: hasn't been doing for ages, and so this was obviously 164 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 2: a sort of set up Q and a bit of 165 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 2: a Dorothy Dixon on my beloved friend Peter Quedlin's Sky 166 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 2: News show, and she asks him about the fact that 167 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 2: he just stands in front of Australian flags instead of 168 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 2: other members of Parliament or the government who stand behind. 169 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 2: We're in front of the Australian flag, with the Aboriginal 170 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 2: flag and the Torres Strait Islander flag, and Peter Dutton says, no, 171 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 2: I only stand in front of the Australian flag because 172 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 2: otherwise it's divisive to have too many there all these 173 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 2: other flags where one nation, we're one Australia. 174 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: We have one flag. That's it. 175 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 2: Right now. This is great, this is good. I'm not 176 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 2: bashing Peter Dutton here. This is good red meat for 177 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 2: his base. This gets people fired up and they think, yes. 178 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 2: You can almost hear them standing, putting their hands on 179 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 2: their chest and singing the national anthem. It's terrific stuff. 180 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 2: It's also very clever because what he wants to do 181 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 2: is drag labor into a culture war where it argues 182 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 2: that no, you should have the Aboriginal and Torres Strait 183 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 2: Islander flags at all public appearances alongside the Australian flag 184 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 2: because we're. 185 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 1: An inclusive nation and we're paying our. 186 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 2: Or whatever whatever whatever, that's what he wants to do. 187 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 2: He wants to get the PM or whoever else to 188 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: come in and say, no, this is why we have 189 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 2: to have Aboriginal flags here, this is why we have 190 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 2: to have the torres strada on the flag there, and 191 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 2: then they can have an argument about how many flags 192 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 2: they have at these public appearances and what they are. Fortunately, 193 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 2: for the Labor Party it did not take de bait 194 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 2: and I must admit you'd sort of hold your breath 195 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 2: sometimes because you can get you can guarantee the would 196 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 2: have been a few lefties theres. 197 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: This is terrible. We have to do and fight for 198 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: the pros strada on the flag. 199 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 2: But no, what they have done is simply say, oh, 200 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 2: Peter Dunton. Here he is in the middle of a 201 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 2: cost of living crisis where people can't afford to pay 202 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 2: the rent, to pay their mortgage, to put food on 203 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: the table, and he's trying to start a culture about flags. 204 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 2: He's banging on about flav what's this guy going on about? 205 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 2: Why is he talking about flags? And so a few 206 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 2: people in the party have said this could be just 207 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 2: a little bit of hope, a little bit of a 208 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 2: silver lining a few green shoots that Dutton may have 209 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 2: just slightly over a slightly gone just a bit too 210 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 2: trumpy on this one. And I must admit if he 211 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 2: had a dragged the Labor Party into that debate that 212 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 2: he wanted, then he would have been hailed as a 213 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: political genius. But because Labor thankfully it didn't take debate 214 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: and said no, it's you that's having this irrelevant cultural 215 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: war argument with yourself while we're focused on cost of 216 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: living issues, bread and butter issues. He's kind of played 217 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 2: himself out of the debate just a little bit. So again, 218 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 2: the answer to the question how many flags should a 219 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 2: political leader have behind them in the middle of a 220 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 2: cost of living crisis, it doesn't matter. Well, it's the 221 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 2: biggest story in the world right now, but no one 222 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: actually seems to know what the story actually is. These 223 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 2: are all these drone sightings that have been seen in America, 224 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 2: or we think they've been seen. We don't know what 225 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 2: they are, especially around New Jersey. All sorts of theories 226 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 2: about what these things are, whether they come from Iran, 227 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 2: whether they come from outer space, whether they come from 228 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 2: the US government itself in some kind of secret undercover operation, 229 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 2: except not really undercover. It's right there everywhere in the 230 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 2: night sky. So to help get to the bottom of this, 231 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 2: I thought I would bring in someone who is an 232 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 2: expert in these kinds of matters. He's a veteran pilot 233 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 2: of more than sixty years. He's flown for the Air Force, 234 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 2: he has flown for Emirates. He's flown Giant seven seven sevens, 235 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 2: He's flown air buses, he's flown fighter jets. He is 236 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: an aviation expert who has also helped to plot the 237 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: suspected resting place of MH three seventy. So when it 238 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 2: comes to an aviation mystery, there is no one more 239 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 2: qualified to get to the bottom of it. Captain Byron Bailey, 240 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 2: Welcome to the real story. 241 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 3: How are you yeah, I'm good, Joe, thank you. 242 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 2: Firstly, what was your initial reaction when you started seeing 243 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 2: and reading about these reports of drones in the night 244 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 2: sky above America appearing in there all their thousands, if 245 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 2: some reports have to be believed, It was just weird. 246 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 3: I mean I thought someone was having a laugh, really, 247 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 3: But then when you look in the paper, everyone was confused, 248 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 3: and even Trump initially was suggested perhaps should shoot them down. 249 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 3: But he's changed that. 250 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: That's right. 251 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 2: I think Trump came out and said that the government 252 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 2: needs to explain exactly what they are right now, otherwise 253 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 2: people should just start shooting. 254 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: That was official. 255 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 3: Well, he's actually said we know where they come from 256 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 3: and we know where they're going. But you know, all 257 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 3: these conspiracy theories, there's been some real LULUs. You know, 258 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 3: the Iranians supposedly head of mothership. 259 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 2: Right cutting off the coast, and these. 260 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 3: Were little ones, spy ones that hovering over why New. 261 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: Jersey, I don't know, play a round of Donald Jones. 262 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 3: Someone else suggested that because the Ukrainians have gifted the 263 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 3: eighty nuclear weapons back in ninety one guarantee for security, 264 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 3: wasn't it and one is missing and the only way 265 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 3: they can detect where it is is to detect gamma 266 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,479 Speaker 3: radiation from the plutonium. So they suggest that these fleets 267 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 3: of drones low level with gamma RAI detection trying to 268 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 3: find the location of this missing bomb. 269 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 2: And again, this is a real It sounds we're both 270 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 2: laughing as you say that, but this is actually a 271 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:41,239 Speaker 2: real theory that has been posited online by a drone manufacturer, 272 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: I believe, or a drone's expert in saying that this 273 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 2: is happening. So firstly, you say that we now know 274 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 2: where they come from or where they're going or whatever. 275 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 2: What do you think You've got impeccable sources in the 276 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 2: United States Air Force who you've been speaking to. What 277 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 2: are these drones? Where did they come from? 278 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 3: Well, a few years back, NASA set up a group 279 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:10,479 Speaker 3: of companies to investigate its advancement of technology in air mobility, 280 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 3: and so it involves the military, it involves civilian and 281 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 3: basically they've set up some low level air traffic routes 282 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 3: below a thousand feet because light aircraft, for example, not 283 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 3: allowed below fifteen hundred feet, so it's never going to 284 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 3: conflict with any air traffic control. And they say away 285 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 3: from the major airports, supposedly, And the idea is these 286 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 3: various call them drones if you like, but they're actually 287 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 3: unpiloted vehicles, airborne vehicles, and what they've been doing is 288 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 3: practicing unpiloted airway flights are made to b air taxi 289 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 3: and it's all evolving technology. And eventually, you know, because 290 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 3: it's so advanced in what they're doing, and I guess 291 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 3: there's a little bit of artificial intelligence and everything's you 292 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 3: don't need pilots, and a x Elon Musk said, you know, 293 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 3: the next generation fighter, by the way, will be unpiloted. 294 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 3: So come twenty fifty when they retire, the F thirty 295 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 3: five is goodbye to fighter pilots. 296 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 2: Wow, there is so much in that, so let's go 297 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 2: back to the beginning. Firstly, what is the difference between 298 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 2: a drone and an unpiloted aircraft vehicle or is there 299 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 2: a technical difference. 300 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 3: A drone is just a general term for something that 301 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 3: doesn't have a pilot in it. A twelve years ago, 302 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 3: I was playing a private jet from Europe down to 303 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 3: Kamandu for rich guy. We overflew Hindu Kush meant we 304 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 3: had to cross northeast Afghanistan, American air traffic controls, military guys. 305 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 3: I happened to look down as I was at low 306 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 3: thirtieth and I looked down and at about thirty thousand 307 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 3: feet was one of those really big UAVs loitering there. 308 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 3: And thing is the technology and that's you know, quite 309 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 3: old technology now, but it'll be out of sight up there, 310 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 3: but someone can sort of see what you're having in 311 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 3: your coffee. 312 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 1: Wow, if they really that's an unpiloted air vehicle. 313 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's unpiloted. So what's happened Now we got all 314 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 3: these little ones that range from like large insects, you know, 315 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 3: with a little propellers and so on, and it's just evolving. 316 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 3: And what's happened with the war in the Ukraine where 317 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 3: now they're the largest producer of what's called drones in 318 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 3: the world. They have factories punching out these little things. 319 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 3: They strap a little bomb on it, They go and 320 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 3: find a five million dollar tank and oh, it's got 321 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 3: a hatch open and bing goodbye to or tank. So tanks, 322 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 3: like fighter pilots are actually hitting for the dustbin in history. 323 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 2: So these drones or UAVs, unpiloted air vehicles are everywhere, 324 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 2: and people just wouldn't have been familiar with them and 325 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 2: realized that they were actually being. 326 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 3: Well, there's actually a million regiss stood what you call 327 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 3: drones in America. Here you have to if you buy 328 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 3: one over a certain size, you've got to actually have 329 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 3: it registered and you've got to be approved to operate it. 330 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 3: So there are height limits. You're not allowed eight hundred 331 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 3: feet I think is the maximum and so many miles within. 332 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 3: So there's an awful lot of going on, and the 333 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 3: air traffic control were very worried initially, but it's working 334 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 3: out okay. 335 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 2: So these were private companies, were they that NASA had 336 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 2: had set up and they were basically testing air traffic 337 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 2: corridors for for what of these new highways delivery services. 338 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 3: I have about four dedicated ones that go from Langley 339 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,239 Speaker 3: Air Force Base, you know, Still Aware to Virginia and 340 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 3: they're flying at night. But when they see the lights, 341 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 3: they're compliant. The lighting is compliant with the federal aviation 342 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 3: regulations for but they're under a thousand feet. 343 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 2: And having the red light on one side and the green 344 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 2: light and a little flashing. 345 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 3: A white tail. But if it's a bigger one, then 346 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 3: you have two white tail. 347 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 2: Because other experts have said they said if these were 348 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 2: from out of space, or if these were from Iran, 349 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 2: it's passing strange because they are complying exactly with. 350 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: Regulations. 351 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 2: So it's NASA operated but private entities who are mapping 352 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 2: out these kind of new well, the air highways. 353 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 3: That's the way America works, you know, Silicon Valley and 354 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 3: all those that's the smart young guys that step in 355 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 3: and they very like Elon Musk. They come up with 356 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 3: new stuff, and of course you don't want to advertise. 357 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 3: The military knows what's going on, and when they're asked 358 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 3: the kind of shoug well, we don't really know, but 359 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 3: they do. I mean, you know, the governments. Well I'm 360 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 3: not sure who you want to tell the government anyway, 361 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 3: because some talk too much and some don't talk. 362 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 2: So the people you spoke to in the US Air 363 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 2: Force that they're saying this is definitely what it is, 364 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 2: or that they're saying, we think this is what it is. 365 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 3: Well he wasn't. It's a colleague, retired lieutenant colonel. He 366 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 3: cannot say for sure. 367 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 1: But of course pretty sure it is that right. 368 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 3: You know, because everything fits in that they've been testing 369 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 3: this and over Langley Air Force BACE. A year ago 370 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 3: they were testing some some of these drones, but now 371 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 3: they're testing unpiloted from A to B, you know, just 372 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 3: to make sure it all works before it actually one day, 373 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 3: I guess a couple of years time will have. 374 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: A fulling flying cars it. 375 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 3: Taxi and the fact they don't have a pilot probably 376 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 3: means it's safer because ninety five percent of plane crashes 377 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 3: are a result of a pilot error, you know, making 378 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 3: a mistake. 379 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 2: So when people say the things that they've been seeing 380 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 2: in the sky, there is a drones the size of 381 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 2: school buses. They could be actual school buses, the actual 382 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 2: buses of the future, the actual transports of. 383 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 3: The well, there's so many different actual types of drones 384 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 3: and the ones they prefer now for air taxi actually 385 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 3: a fixed swing with tilt rotors so you can take 386 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 3: off vertically and then it transitions like the bell X 387 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 3: twenty two marine chopper that they a tactical hair lift 388 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 3: they use. 389 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 2: Up north, the Harrier jump jet, although that's a jet, 390 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 2: not a rot but. 391 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 3: Still yeah, very very similar. 392 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: But you don't need no, you don't have to take off, 393 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: you don't need to. 394 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 3: And the beauty is these things are with the program 395 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 3: of the computers, they can just be so accurate and 396 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 3: smooth and bring themselves in pilot. He could have a 397 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 3: bad day, but they never have. 398 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: A bad day. They're never tired. 399 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 3: No. And I just remember Auto lands in the Bowing 400 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 3: Triple seven. How the aeroplane did such beautiful work, you know, 401 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 3: and I just wish I could as good as that. 402 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,360 Speaker 2: If only I could live up to that machine. So 403 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 2: another thing that I've heard raised is that if these 404 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,959 Speaker 2: drones were really as big as people are saying, and 405 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 2: some are saying, you know, the size of bus, some 406 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 2: are saying the size of a two car garage, that 407 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 2: sort of thing, that they would be much much louder 408 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 2: they would be, they'd be making much more noise. Is 409 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,719 Speaker 2: that necessarily so? Can they be quiet or are they 410 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 2: just really far away? 411 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 3: Well now, even fighters now the exhaust is shielded, you know, 412 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 3: so in terms of detection, for example, on fighters, you 413 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 3: want thermal shit shielding, you want stealthy, you know, so 414 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 3: no radar, no thermal, no noise, and it's pretty well 415 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 3: easy with the modern sort of And of course they 416 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 3: wouldn't be flying fast, and we're looking more I guess 417 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 3: military answable, but it's more like eventually we're going to 418 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 3: have an air taxi set up that'll go for me 419 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 3: to be. 420 00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 1: And that could potentially be quite quiet. 421 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 3: That yeah, and they'll be probably at about eight hundred 422 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 3: feet avoiding all the actual and air traffic, you know, 423 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 3: the real stuff with pilots in it. And for me 424 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 3: coming into Bankstown on the private Jedi flying The most 425 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 3: hazard thing we do is trying to avoid the light 426 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 3: aircraft so interesting moments. 427 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, if this is what is happening, why wouldn't NASA 428 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,120 Speaker 2: or the government or these companies say, now it's all right, everybody, 429 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 2: We're not being invaded by aliens. We're just doing this 430 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 2: sort of this little test run. 431 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 1: We're just doing. 432 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 3: You know, well, you don't want China and Russia to 433 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 3: start sort of taking a close interest whatever you're doing. 434 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 3: This is evolving technology, right, it's advanced stuff, and yeah, 435 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 3: you just got to sort of keep it quiet until 436 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 3: I mean, look at Area fifty one. They denied it 437 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 3: existed for years. 438 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 2: Does area while I've got you, does Area fifty one exist? Oh? 439 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: It sure does, But there's no aliens in it? 440 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 2: Or are there? 441 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 3: That was a weather balloon, that was a weather. 442 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, but the government, the US government actually initially denied 443 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 2: there was even an Area fifty one. 444 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 3: That's correct, because that was their top secret center they 445 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 3: used to when they're doing all the stuff up developing 446 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 3: the SR seventy one, you know, the super spiplane that 447 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 3: used to do all the very high speed mark three 448 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 3: point five over Russia and all that they knew when 449 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 3: the Russian and the Chinese satellites were going overhead, so 450 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 3: they would actually sort of pull the aircuft into the hangar. 451 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 3: But what they didn't realize was the heat signature on 452 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 3: the ground where the aeroplane there'd be a shadow, thermal shadow. 453 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 3: And so the Russians and the Chinese worked out the 454 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 3: actual shape of the SR seventy one just from the shadow, 455 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 3: from the fact that they've been a shade when the 456 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 3: acro was sitting there. So they whipped in the hangar 457 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 3: too late. 458 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 2: So when in other words, when you're doing something like this, 459 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 2: when you're doing something experimented with cutting edge technology, there 460 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 2: is so much focus on you bia so they know 461 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 2: that the Chinese are watching, they know that Russians are watching, 462 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 2: and so they figure it's better just to say absolutely nothing. 463 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: Absolutely get their heads spinning. 464 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 2: Where they don't know what it is and think, oh 465 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 2: my god, what are the Americans up to. 466 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 3: Well, six years ago, me and some other colleagues sold 467 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 3: former fighter parts were called back for pitch black to 468 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 3: fly leads to fill in as fodder for you know, 469 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 3: the big exercises, gone one hundred and ten fighter aircraft. 470 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 3: We'll be tied up with as part of a strike 471 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 3: package and twenty of us with a mythical airfield in 472 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 3: the middle between Darwen and Tindall. And I was operating 473 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 3: as part of the group out of Tindall and we 474 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 3: were Blue Force and they were Orange Force, and one 475 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 3: day we would attack and I got shot down every time. 476 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 3: Of course, the interesting thing was the guy was always 477 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 3: one hundred miles away when he was claiming. 478 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:06,479 Speaker 1: That's a right. 479 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 2: Just take my word for it. 480 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: I got you, but I gotcha. 481 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 2: I got you byron. 482 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 3: But we always knew when various satellites were going to 483 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 3: come overheads, all transmissions, everything ceased, all phones by the 484 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 3: way or left behind and turned off and locked away. 485 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 3: So yeah, it's all about stopping the Chinese and the 486 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 3: Russians from eves dropping on anything. Because the technology that's 487 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 3: coming out all the time is just amazing. 488 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: That is amazing. 489 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 2: So I suppose US mere immortals, us mere civilians don't 490 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 2: appreciate just how ultra cautious, ultra paranoid operations like this 491 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 2: have to be, even if they are ultimately for a 492 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 2: commercial purpose. The technology is so cutting edge that they 493 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 2: can't afford to Yeah. 494 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 3: Well, it's combined military and and civilian. So that's America 495 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,360 Speaker 3: the way it operates. But there's a lot of. 496 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: Good military industrial complex, isn't it. 497 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 3: That is exactly right, Yeah. 498 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 2: That's right. So of course these things could have commercial applications, 499 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 2: they could have military applications. Yes, they don't even probably 500 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 2: know themselves yet, but they are just seeing what they 501 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 2: can do, what works, Whether you can have and again 502 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 2: I'm imagining you know, air traffic corridors we've heard about, 503 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 2: you know, pilotless drones or vehicles you know moving as 504 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 2: you say, taxis through their moving people, moving cargo, delivering goods. 505 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 2: It is and obviously to be able to do that, 506 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 2: you have to have some kind of orderly thoroughfare, and 507 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 2: that is what these people are sort of doing. They're 508 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 2: mapping out these kind of highways between major. 509 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 3: Companies like Amazon and delivering stuff. It's easy enough to 510 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 3: program accurately something that can fly to a certain swat 511 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 3: and down and drop it off and come back, no 512 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 3: pilot involvements. You know, it's easy enough for some geek 513 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 3: on a computer to put in all the accurate coordinates. 514 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 3: And this stuff is so accurate. 515 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 2: Why would this be happening all at once? Is this 516 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 2: just an exercise that they had planned and to see 517 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 2: you know how many they can have moving at the 518 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 2: same time without banging into each other, and this just 519 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 2: happens to be the time that they did it. Or 520 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 2: is it something where maybe someone's just seen one thing 521 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 2: and then everyone starts suddenly looking up at the sky 522 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 2: where they weren't before and suddenly they're seeing them everywhere 523 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 2: and it's a combined effect. Or is it just sort 524 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 2: of one mass operation that just happens to be taking 525 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 2: place right now in New Jersey. 526 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: In the lead up to Christmas. 527 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 3: Last year they were working on it and now they're 528 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 3: really trying it out. But the technologies evolving that are fantastic, right, 529 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 3: and artificial intelligence getting involved. I mean, yeah, it's a 530 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 3: brave new world out. 531 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: There, certainly is. 532 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 2: Captain Barron Bailey, thank you so much for joining us 533 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 2: on the real story. They're absolutely fascinating. 534 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 3: Anytime, my pleasure. 535 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: And that is all we have time for this week. 536 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 2: You're welcome world for me unraveling the greatest mystery on 537 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 2: the planet. Thank you all for listening. I hope you 538 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 2: enjoyed it. Leave us a review, leave us a rating, obviously, 539 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 2: only if you really like the show. And why wouldn't you. 540 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 2: You're a person of immaculate taste and you're already listening 541 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 2: to it. So rate a little star, write a little review, 542 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 2: and also you can get in touch with us if 543 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: you want us to look into anything any other mysteries 544 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 2: you need solved. Just email us at the Real Story 545 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 2: at novapodcast dot com dot au. Or you can follow 546 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 2: me on Instagram and that's at Joe Underscore Hildebrands, slide 547 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 2: into my dms, and of course you can read me 548 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 2: in all the news court mask fas around the country 549 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 2: every Monday and every Saturday. Have a very very happy Christmas, 550 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 2: and we'll be back next week with a very special guest. 551 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: You won't want to miss that.