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Speaker 1: Hmm, approache production.

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Speaker 2: For the record.

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Speaker 3: I'm don't try and make you uncomfortable for the record.

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Speaker 3: You ain't trying to grow downer, stand for you for

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Speaker 3: the record, laugh on me going hard away for the record.

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Speaker 3: Ain't trying to link, No trying to waste for the record.

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Speaker 4: For the record, for the for the record, for the

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Speaker 4: ready for the record, for the record.

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Speaker 2: For the record.

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Speaker 3: I don't try and make you uncomfortable.

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Speaker 5: Welcome back to the Clink. Today we have a fantastic guest.

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Speaker 2: He is all the way from New Zealand.

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Speaker 5: I shouldn't say all the way. It's not that far

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Speaker 5: from Australia, but they are our brothers and sisters across

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Speaker 5: the ocean. I just want to say a massive thank

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Speaker 5: you to everybody who has continually downloaded the Clink. Millions

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Speaker 5: and millions of people have been listening to these stories

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Speaker 5: week after week, and we're forever grateful and very very

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Speaker 5: blessed to have you by our side. I want to

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Speaker 5: say a big thank you to Sideway, Surf and a

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Speaker 5: Pod Shape for allowing us to be able to continue

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Speaker 5: delivering wonderful stories of redemption. Today's guest is somebody whom

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Speaker 5: I know has an amazing story. I have been following

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Speaker 5: his journey now for a little bit and it is

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Speaker 5: a very powerful story, one that will knock you right

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Speaker 5: off your socks to start with. But where he is today,

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Speaker 5: the man that he's become is phenomenal. Waka Tytha, welcome

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Speaker 5: to the clink.

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Speaker 1: Awesome brother, It's lovely to be here's.

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Speaker 5: It truly is an honor. I cannot sort of say

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Speaker 5: it any other way because each week I get the

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Speaker 5: blessing and the privilege to be able to speak with

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Speaker 5: wonderful guests, male females from all over the world. Your

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Speaker 5: story is extremely powerful and the story of redemption is

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Speaker 5: just so so strong within your journey, inspiring many people today.

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Speaker 5: You are somebody that people look up to for fantastic reasons.

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Speaker 5: You are a man though that has definitely walked the

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Speaker 5: path and as they say, walk the walk and talk

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Speaker 5: the talk. That is what you do and have done.

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Speaker 5: You were a ten year plus Mongral Mob member, correct,

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Speaker 5: and you are a man who has experienced drugs, jail

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Speaker 5: and also the hardships of life. Let's take people back

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Speaker 5: and give them the story of Waka and where Waka.

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Speaker 1: Is fromnadefold Brother Brent, Yes, so naughty me and mahia

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Speaker 1: a Ho. So my name is Waka. I am from

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Speaker 1: white or born in Britain wideal watches on the Hooks Bay,

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Speaker 1: east coast of North Island, New Zealand.

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Speaker 5: Brother, I just got to pause and just humbly take

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Speaker 5: all that in. You speak multi tongue, and that right

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Speaker 5: there is just a beautiful thing to listen to. My

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Speaker 5: wife is Napui, and my children obviously half New Zealand

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Speaker 5: or half Kiwi or whichever way you want to put it. Well,

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Speaker 5: they're they're they're they're they're white, but they are of

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Speaker 5: Maori dissent for sure, and and they're very very strong

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Speaker 5: and understanding that side of their culture and their history.

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Speaker 5: Was it something that you've always been raised with or

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Speaker 5: is it something as you've grown and become more man

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Speaker 5: and understanding that you wanted to touch more and deep

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Speaker 5: into your culture.

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Speaker 1: It was something that was always there, but I wasn't

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Speaker 1: something that I grew up with. Yeah, it was always there.

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Speaker 1: You know, I didn't know I was Maldy, And to

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Speaker 1: be honest, that's as close as I was was just

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Speaker 1: knowing that I was Maldy. Sung a few Malory Wireter

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Speaker 1: and things, watch your songs at school and things like that.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't until I was going on my journey.

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Speaker 1: I had a little time when I was going to

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Speaker 1: a high school where I saw it, you know, enjoyed

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Speaker 1: doing it. But I found my real passion for when

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Speaker 1: I was inside prison.

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Speaker 5: A passion looking at you actually express yourself and introduce yourself.

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Speaker 2: It's a proud.

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Speaker 5: Man that I'm looking at, somebody that takes a lot

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Speaker 5: of pride in himself and his culture, and I just

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Speaker 5: want to commend you on that. It comes across very strongly,

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Speaker 5: so thank you. You grew up in a very strong

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Speaker 5: gang related area that was basically life to generational sort

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Speaker 5: of thing over there, which is We've had many discussions

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Speaker 5: here on the Clink with some wonderful guests from New Zealand,

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Speaker 5: and I often like to, I guess, ask each guest

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Speaker 5: their way of growth within that community and that way

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Speaker 5: of life, because each of you have experienced something very different,

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Speaker 5: although very similar, if I can put it that way

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Speaker 5: here in Australia, I guess it's more to see second

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Speaker 5: generation is not always seen or you know, to have

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Speaker 5: it within family, bloodlines and stuff like that is not

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Speaker 5: something that we see over here so much.

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Speaker 2: How was it for you growing up and what was

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Speaker 2: it like?

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Speaker 1: Well for me, brother, you know, I understand. You know,

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Speaker 1: everyone here's a JOUNI. Everyone has a story, and I've

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Speaker 1: just had the opportunity to share mine, and this is

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Speaker 1: another opportunity for me to share mine. Brother. No, some

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Speaker 1: some guys journeys and stories are more hard out than others.

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Speaker 1: But you know, we've all had our own battles and

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Speaker 1: suitain areas. And in life. I had awesome upbringing, bro,

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Speaker 1: you know, awesome I'm and dead food and cupboards, heaps

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Speaker 1: of love from mom. Yeah, a warm beard. So I had.

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Speaker 1: I had a good upbringing in that sense. But I

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Speaker 1: would say, you know, yeah, the game, the game influence

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Speaker 1: was very strong. It's very strong, all my uncles and

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Speaker 1: the Mob. So you know a lot of people have

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Speaker 1: have older people, you know, people that they look up to,

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Speaker 1: you know, people that they look up to, rugby players,

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Speaker 1: you know, actors and things like that. Well, the guys

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Speaker 1: we looked up to were Mob members.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, I'll be honest, I did look up

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Speaker 1: to my older brothers, and that you my older brothers

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Speaker 1: looked up to as well. Was we're mob members.

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Speaker 5: You you talk, we talk among all mob I just

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Speaker 5: want to sort of put a diet a bit of

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Speaker 5: a perspective on it, because a lot of people don't

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Speaker 5: seem to understand the dire dynamics of community and growth

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Speaker 5: within the community in certain gang areas.

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Speaker 2: How how was that growing up within that, Like, you

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Speaker 2: know that you're.

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Speaker 5: Looking up to mob brothers as you're grotting older and

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Speaker 5: as a young person, you know, but yet you have

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Speaker 5: so many other gangs around you in New Zealand. How

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Speaker 5: is that as an influence to want to actually stick

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Speaker 5: one as a model.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I guess, I guess if I look back

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Speaker 1: as at a young age where I really you know,

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Speaker 1: I actually found that desire or had that desire to

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Speaker 1: you want to be like that? Do you want to

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Speaker 1: be a mob member? That's what I look at. That's

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Speaker 1: what looked attractive to me. So much love in that

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Speaker 1: space as well, you know, so much. Yeah, there's love

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Speaker 1: and that space, brother, and it's a love that you know,

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Speaker 1: you have your family love, but then you have their love,

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Speaker 1: you have that other type of love where it's like

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Speaker 1: in a heart out space. You know, we had our

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Speaker 1: things go on, but there's still their love there. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's their care and there's their love. Yeah, look cool

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Speaker 1: in me, a bro, look cool. They look cool when

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Speaker 1: you know, seeing the petch and driving the V eight

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Speaker 1: and the cars and and giving money to the kids.

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Speaker 1: You know, things like that and asking you know, how

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Speaker 1: are you and you know what he's doing. Just things

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Speaker 1: like that and really made you like, oh wow, that

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Speaker 1: that big scary guy. You know he cares about me

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Speaker 1: and just things like that. So I was at a

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Speaker 1: young age where I actually found that, where I found

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Speaker 1: that love for the Mob.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And like I mean to be honest, it's more

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Speaker 1: that dominates and Widal it's it's it's small that dominates there.

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Speaker 1: And it's all my uncles are in the Mob. You

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Speaker 1: know pretty much all the Mob and wider. We're all related.

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Speaker 1: We're all fun.

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Speaker 5: When we talk about we'll call it a district, all right,

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Speaker 5: an area, So what is what is the sort of space?

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Speaker 2: How many kilometers would it be?

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Speaker 5: Or you know, how big is the community or the

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Speaker 5: town that is predominantly Mob affiliated or connected.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'd say I'd say ninety percent of wide

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Speaker 1: as Mob. But then you have so you have the

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Speaker 1: wide Ord district also has you know, other little country

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Speaker 1: places around it. So you have like you have Roepunger,

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Speaker 1: you have Maha New Hukker, and then you have Fraser Town,

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Speaker 1: you know, and we're Ropunger. In Fraser Town they und

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Speaker 1: black power. Wow, they they're there there there. Yeah, black

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Speaker 1: power dominated in those two eras, the only small places,

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Speaker 1: but they're black power dominated. But we all, you know,

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Speaker 1: we all fucking puppa, We all fuck upper from the

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Speaker 1: same lines, you know, along the lines our ancestors and ancestors,

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Speaker 1: we're all intertwined to each other. Brother. I think we're

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Speaker 1: probably about fourth generation in the MOB four generation more,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. In the game four, we're

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Speaker 1: like the fourth generation. So you got you got me,

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Speaker 1: and you got my uncle's and then you've got like

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Speaker 1: a generation before them, So we're probably about third fourth

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Speaker 1: your food fourth generation, but then you got my you've

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Speaker 1: got the generation after us that are coming up deep

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Speaker 1: in it as well, so they'll be like the fourth generation.

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Speaker 1: If that's right.

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Speaker 2: That's some deep bloodlines there.

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Speaker 5: And I think when you put that in perspective, and

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Speaker 5: why I want to really sort of give this a

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Speaker 5: little bit of a chat at the moment, is because

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Speaker 5: I want people to get a real clear perspective from

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Speaker 5: someone who knows, because we all assume we will do

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Speaker 5: and none of us live there and live a life

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Speaker 5: like Australia is very very different to any other country,

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Speaker 5: you know. And we talk about gang life, we talk

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Speaker 5: about crews and outlaw motorcycle clubs and all this sort

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Speaker 5: of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, we get the postcard walls.

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Speaker 5: Here and the young blokes out there for our knives

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Speaker 5: and each other and all this sort of stuff over

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Speaker 5: But that to me doesn't That's that's just silly stuff.

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Speaker 5: When you talking generational gang connection, that's that's pretty hardcore.

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Speaker 5: That's lockdown, you know what I mean. That is like

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Speaker 5: you say, that is this is our district, that is

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Speaker 5: their district. How is it though? And you just spoke

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Speaker 5: that you'll relate in some way. But yet there's massive

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Speaker 5: history there, especially in those two gangs, of history that

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Speaker 5: goes so far back within the New Zealand culture and

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Speaker 5: structure where a lot of brothers have lost their lives,

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Speaker 5: a lot of brothers.

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Speaker 2: Have you served a lot.

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Speaker 5: Of jail time and still do to the day. You,

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Speaker 5: of all people, have experienced that yourself and understand exactly

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Speaker 5: what that's like, and we'll talk about that shortly. But

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Speaker 5: you know, I think people need to truly understand because

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Speaker 5: they don't see it from a generational point of view.

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Speaker 5: You know, we look at it and think, oh, okay,

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Speaker 5: and as an ext gang member myself of half my

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Speaker 5: life and I'm forty eight, I totally understand all the

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Speaker 5: love of the brotherhood and camaraderie and that family united feeling.

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Speaker 5: And it's a void it is avoid once you step

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Speaker 5: away from it. I don't care who you are. If

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Speaker 5: you've lived it right, then it's always missed. But there's

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Speaker 5: a lot of things there that you way up and

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Speaker 5: you look at once you start becoming a family man

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Speaker 5: and you want to truly live your life to your fullest.

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Speaker 2: And doesn't always work out that gang life.

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Speaker 5: Is going to come with you on that journey. But

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Speaker 5: we wouldn't be where we are today having this conversation

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Speaker 5: had we had not walked in these parts. I want

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Speaker 5: people to understand how hard is it growing up as

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Speaker 5: a generational future member to be able to break away

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Speaker 5: from that and even decide as a young person that, na,

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Speaker 5: I'm not coming with your cousins, I'm not going there

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Speaker 5: or being pulled save for example, to the next district

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Speaker 5: and into the black power scene and you know then

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Speaker 5: you've got your fund who over here? That's all mongol mob.

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Speaker 5: I mean, how does that go down? How how does

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Speaker 5: it go within? You guys seeing each other on the street.

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Speaker 1: So you know there they are there there. I know

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Speaker 1: brothers that have you know, that's all they know. You know,

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Speaker 1: I know brothers that didn't get that upbringing that they're

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Speaker 1: they're loving home, they're loving parents, they're provided. And I

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Speaker 1: know brothers that didn't have their you know, mongrel mob

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Speaker 1: was all they knew and that's all they know to

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Speaker 1: the state. So their passion and their love is so

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Speaker 1: strong and it's so deep. You know where for me,

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Speaker 1: I sawt of it or something I wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a brother. I did have the opportunity to sort of

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Speaker 1: see other things in life. It was something I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be, you know, I wanted to be a part

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Speaker 1: of them all. I wanted to wear a pitch. Even

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Speaker 1: though there are times in my life I had opportunities

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Speaker 1: to see other things, I still always had their desire

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Speaker 1: inside me to be a mobster. Yeah. And when it

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Speaker 1: comes to like anything could anything could go off Abra

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Speaker 1: and white or it's a place where anything could go off.

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Speaker 1: And that's why the fighting, the rivalry has been so strong,

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Speaker 1: because it's a place where, at any time where you

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Speaker 1: could just be going to the dairy and then being

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Speaker 1: it's all on what.

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Speaker 5: Could do you find though that do you guys sort

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Speaker 5: of cross over paths and go into black powers sort

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Speaker 5: of district and they come into yours or unless that

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Speaker 5: there is something that needs to be discussed or business

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Speaker 5: or what have, you just keep out of each other's

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Speaker 5: sort of areas or you know, how does it work

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Speaker 5: there or will you I guess we all understand the

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Speaker 5: politics once it's getting life and all this sort of stuff,

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Speaker 5: and it can kick off exactly say from you know,

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Speaker 5: some bad words.

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Speaker 1: If that was there is, there is a there is,

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Speaker 1: like there are things that are put in place that

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Speaker 1: can prevent, you know, prevent those things from kicking off.

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Speaker 1: But then you have a younger generation that ain't too

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Speaker 1: aware of those those things that have been put in

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Speaker 1: place where sometimes it can start down here and then

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Speaker 1: it builds up to the older ones and then you know,

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Speaker 1: it's the older ones that are cleaning things up. You know,

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Speaker 1: not everyone, not everyone sees that there are things put

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Speaker 1: in place, sort of a basic one as you know,

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Speaker 1: don't don't we all don't we all colors in our area,

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Speaker 1: We won't wear our colors in your area, you know.

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Speaker 1: But you know that can't always be met abra and

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Speaker 1: so sometimes that's where things really kick off. That's where

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Speaker 1: things really kick off. And then you gotta you gotta

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Speaker 1: remember sometimes these parties and alcohol and all that stuff

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Speaker 1: gets involved, so values and that go straight out the door,

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Speaker 1: you know, the chest comes out and things break out.

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Speaker 1: We are at a stage, you know, brother, We're where

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Speaker 1: we're finding ways to where we can you know, keep

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Speaker 1: our community safe and keep our communities away from having

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Speaker 1: to see those sort of things.

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Speaker 5: I must say, she had a stage where, sorry.

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Speaker 1: Especially at a stage where we want to you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't want people going to jail. We don't want

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Speaker 1: our tamaiky and our families missing out on on you know,

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Speaker 1: on life what they're dead because of things that have

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Speaker 1: happened and they've gone to jail. So we do have

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Speaker 1: awesome people and spaces that are creating mutual say by

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Speaker 1: the mutual respect then and in a way I'll be

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Speaker 1: honest with you, brother, I look for the day we

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Speaker 1: askeee unity amongst us all. If you asked me this

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Speaker 1: question three years ago, no way, no way, bro oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I was ready to Yeah, I was ready to.

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Speaker 2: Get a war.

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Speaker 5: That's what's what's what's we're you're brothers for that's it.

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Speaker 2: You bleed, Yeah, you bleed among the mob full stop, you.

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Speaker 5: Know, and that that's the bottom line. And I think

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Speaker 5: that goes with any patch in any club. I want

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Speaker 5: to ask you something that you know also, is I

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Speaker 5: see from the outside, especially as once again being a

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Speaker 5: member in the past myself, I see a shift. And

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Speaker 5: I have a lot of friends in New Zealand who

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Speaker 5: I often talk to, many many friends that were involved

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Speaker 5: in ganglof They're doing fantastic things like yourself after GANGLOFE.

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Speaker 2: We here have a massive.

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Speaker 5: Youth crime problem. We have a big problem with the

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Speaker 5: ice or the p as you guys also call it.

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Speaker 2: Back over in New Zealand.

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Speaker 5: There doesn't seem to be too many people over here

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Speaker 5: stepping up from senior levels of any community base trying

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Speaker 5: to really knock it on the head. Where you guys

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Speaker 5: over there really are taking the steps to prevent and look,

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Speaker 5: let's not be idiot and talk do we because you

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Speaker 5: know this is not what the clink's about. It's happening.

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Speaker 5: It's gonna happen. People are gonna make earns. It's gonna

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Speaker 5: be there, it's gonna be next door, it's gonna be

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Speaker 5: But the prevention that you guys are trying to put

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Speaker 5: in place to stop the next generation and prevent them

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Speaker 5: from going down those paths. And even I guess seen

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Speaker 5: members who are now coming back into life into into

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Speaker 5: a good way of living after having that lived experience.

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Speaker 5: How have you find that transition in connecting with these

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Speaker 5: young people and you know, persuading them not to go

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Speaker 5: down these roads of chasing the pipe and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: You know, to be honest, brow, I have a brother,

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Speaker 1: an awesome older brother of mine there has created a

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Speaker 1: platform called Motivation alts at All. Through Motivation olds at All, brother,

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Speaker 1: he's finding an awesome way to reach out to to

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Speaker 1: create a space where they can learn things that I

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Speaker 1: also I learned it at a younger age, you know

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Speaker 1: the years so well. Motivation olds at All it's an

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Speaker 1: awesome platform. There's other there's other like spaces out there

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Speaker 1: that that are doing their best to help out. I'm

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Speaker 1: gona tell you, but I really believe in olds at all,

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Speaker 1: and I believe in my brother's vision, you know, especially

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Speaker 1: for guys that have lived that experience, you know, from

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Speaker 1: from the addiction to to all that all their yucky stuff, brother,

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Speaker 1: the violence and things like that and loved there, bro,

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Speaker 1: And we we we've realized it's not healthy and it's

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Speaker 1: not good and we don't want to pass that on

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Speaker 1: to our next generation or our generation after that. So

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Speaker 1: hints why with you know, while we're out here, you know,

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Speaker 1: growing ourselves so we can you know, we can learn

347
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Speaker 1: things and learn as much as we can so we

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Speaker 1: can share that. But we're doing things so we can

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Speaker 1: be our best, perform at our best, and give our

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Speaker 1: best to all those around us, specially our next generations

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Speaker 1: to come. You know, that stuff, all this stuff's going

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Speaker 1: out of fashion, bro, all the addiction, all the all

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Speaker 1: the myth and stuff there's going out of fashion.

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Speaker 5: You know. It's I love that. I have never heard

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Speaker 5: anybody put it in that that that term before. That's

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Speaker 5: a very very good way of saying it, because we

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Speaker 5: all seem to love the trend. Everybody loves to love

358
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Speaker 5: a style, you know, whether it be a nice pair

359
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Speaker 5: of shoes or an outfit, or the way you walk

360
00:18:49,921 --> 00:18:52,441
Speaker 5: or talk, how do you hold yourself? And you're right,

361
00:18:52,521 --> 00:18:56,321
Speaker 5: healthy living is becoming fresh, it's becoming the student. It's

362
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Speaker 5: becoming smart choices positive. You know, venders going and partying

363
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Speaker 5: at the club house, getting on the coke for two days,

364
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Speaker 5: or flaring out on the pipe. It's ugly.

365
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Speaker 2: Nobody like, what does it do?

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Speaker 5: What's the what's the wow in it? Anymore?

367
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Speaker 2: There is no wow.

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Speaker 5: It actually just everybody is aware of where it's going

369
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Speaker 5: to take you, and it's going to take you to

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Speaker 5: the devil's lair. It's as simple as that. And you

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Speaker 5: know you will be consumed by hell because that's what

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Speaker 5: it does. It creates life hell for everyone and yourselves.

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Speaker 5: You have experienced what that was truly like, And I

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Speaker 5: just want to ask was it something though coming into

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Speaker 5: gang life that it was pretty common back in the generation,

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Speaker 5: and you coming forward into becoming a member, you say

377
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Speaker 5: late teens that the thing was you would get on

378
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Speaker 5: the pipe. Was it common or just smoking weed? Or

379
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Speaker 5: how how did it come about? Because I know here

380
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Speaker 5: if you were caught with a pipe or coming into

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Speaker 5: a club when it was what.

382
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Speaker 2: It should have been. You were flogged or you were

383
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Speaker 2: there was no chance it was going to happen.

384
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Speaker 5: It was forbidden. But then floodgates open and things change, money, power,

385
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Speaker 5: all the rest of you.

386
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Speaker 2: You know the story.

387
00:20:06,281 --> 00:20:09,201
Speaker 5: You know, people turn blind eyes left, right, and center,

388
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Speaker 5: and then it all just goes downhill. Was it like

389
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Speaker 5: that when you first started stepping into club life and

390
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Speaker 5: you know, seeing it.

391
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Speaker 1: All, well, for me brother, not realizing, you know, until

392
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Speaker 1: I was in prison and I was doing some courses

393
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Speaker 1: and stuff. I naturally have an addictive personality, So yeah,

394
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Speaker 1: it was sort of it was sort of like normal.

395
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Speaker 1: But I do have brothers and fino in that space

396
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Speaker 1: that don't touch the stuff, never have touched the stuff,

397
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Speaker 1: and you know, so it was more for me. It

398
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Speaker 1: did sort of come hand in hand, and I will

399
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Speaker 1: be honest with you. When I was on it, it

400
00:20:40,961 --> 00:20:45,281
Speaker 1: did make me feel more comfortable and being that type

401
00:20:45,281 --> 00:20:50,801
Speaker 1: of guy, being a violent guy, being attracted to to Yeah,

402
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff, money and things like that.

403
00:20:53,321 --> 00:20:56,361
Speaker 1: You know, it sort of did. It came hand in hand.

404
00:20:56,441 --> 00:21:01,881
Speaker 1: Bro It allowed me to feel comfortable to walk along. Yeah,

405
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Speaker 1: a not so healthy lifestyle.

406
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Speaker 5: It was a pretty common worker though, within the community

407
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Speaker 5: that you would just bump into brothers and everyone will

408
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Speaker 5: be off jobs because that's pretty standard.

409
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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and and and and you're and you would

410
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Speaker 1: avoid those brothers and final that ain't on it. You know,

411
00:21:16,241 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 1: you're you're you're socialized what those that are on it

412
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Speaker 1: you know, because yeah, yeah, because I was just yeah,

413
00:21:22,721 --> 00:21:26,440
Speaker 1: that's you're socialized. What those that are using, those that

414
00:21:26,481 --> 00:21:28,321
Speaker 1: are doing the same things. You won't, you won't your

415
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Speaker 1: sort of start to avoid those brothers and final that

416
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Speaker 1: they don't get into it.

417
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Speaker 5: It makes you wonder though, when you think about brotherhood

418
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Speaker 5: and once again, when you've lived that life, you understand

419
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,160
Speaker 5: the structure of club life. And there needs to be

420
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Speaker 5: structure full stop. That's why there's your senior members. There's

421
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,321
Speaker 5: there's structure, there's there's there's things, there's consequences for actions.

422
00:21:51,761 --> 00:21:53,681
Speaker 5: People think that, you know, you just go through club

423
00:21:53,721 --> 00:21:55,041
Speaker 5: life and it's all good and you do what you

424
00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 5: do or whatever, and you're involved and it's all sweet.

425
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,120
Speaker 5: It's not. There's always someone an answer to in the

426
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:02,521
Speaker 5: club will always be bigger than you. The reality of

427
00:22:02,561 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 5: it is, though, you have, I guess fractions of the

428
00:22:06,281 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 5: club where like you say there would be brothers that

429
00:22:08,761 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 5: would prefer to stick with only those brothers and trust

430
00:22:11,441 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 5: those brothers that are still doing what they're doing, you

431
00:22:14,001 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 5: know what I mean, as opposed to the brothers that aren't.

432
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Speaker 5: How did that work in such a big club?

433
00:22:19,281 --> 00:22:21,561
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, you know, I guess, like ourselves, go back

434
00:22:21,561 --> 00:22:23,841
Speaker 1: to their love. You know, their natural lovers as always there,

435
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,961
Speaker 1: whether you're on it or not, abro there's still their love.

436
00:22:26,281 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 1: And like I said, a lot of us are family,

437
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,321
Speaker 1: so we have a connection other than just through the game.

438
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 1: We actually have a natural fino tie together, grewing up

439
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,921
Speaker 1: with each other through school and through everything, so their

440
00:22:36,921 --> 00:22:39,281
Speaker 1: lovers naturally the So I guess.

441
00:22:39,041 --> 00:22:41,721
Speaker 5: Would you say non non judgmental? Would you say that

442
00:22:41,721 --> 00:22:44,721
Speaker 5: that the brothers are non judgmental in respect to each other?

443
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 1: WHOA. It'll get to an extent when you're starting to

444
00:22:49,721 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: really like be out be out the gate, you know,

445
00:22:53,921 --> 00:22:55,761
Speaker 1: you'll have a brother that's going to pull you aside

446
00:22:55,761 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 1: in a brother you know, sort it out or brother

447
00:22:58,961 --> 00:23:02,521
Speaker 1: what's going on, And there will be points where you'll

448
00:23:02,561 --> 00:23:04,281
Speaker 1: probably get a hiding as well if you're going to

449
00:23:04,321 --> 00:23:07,801
Speaker 1: carry on down there pathful for some you know, even nowadays,

450
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,241
Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot of chapters that are

451
00:23:10,241 --> 00:23:13,721
Speaker 1: coming out that have an anti you know, anti myth

452
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 1: use you know, things like that. Yeah, and I guess,

453
00:23:16,561 --> 00:23:19,041
Speaker 1: I guess. You know, the generation before mine, it would

454
00:23:19,041 --> 00:23:21,001
Speaker 1: have been all out all the generation before that, it

455
00:23:21,001 --> 00:23:22,961
Speaker 1: would have been alcohol. Alcohol would have been the go

456
00:23:23,001 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 1: to where it's sort of whes. It got to sort

457
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:28,521
Speaker 1: of my generation and was sort of like, yeah, being

458
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,880
Speaker 1: on the myth, but I was addicted to marijuana before

459
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:32,921
Speaker 1: I ever got onto the myth.

460
00:23:33,241 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 5: So you're eighteen, You're in the club, and you're you know,

461
00:23:36,521 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 5: your loving life and what happens where where does that

462
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 5: take you? In your first sort of a year or

463
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 5: two now you're a full patch member.

464
00:23:46,241 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: It was sort of on and off thing because at

465
00:23:48,321 --> 00:23:49,961
Speaker 1: the same time I was trying to be in a

466
00:23:50,001 --> 00:23:54,001
Speaker 1: relationship with the girl that I loved, so, you know,

467
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,801
Speaker 1: it was sort of a trying to do that and

468
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,281
Speaker 1: trying to do that at the same time. If I

469
00:23:59,281 --> 00:24:02,801
Speaker 1: could be honest, bro, I never had real focus on

470
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: what I was up to or where I was going.

471
00:24:05,321 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: It was sort of just like, as I look back now,

472
00:24:08,561 --> 00:24:10,801
Speaker 1: I was never really present in life a brother. I

473
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: was never really present. I never really had goals or

474
00:24:14,681 --> 00:24:17,921
Speaker 1: visions or was just to try and live feeling good.

475
00:24:18,041 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: You know, if that made me feel good, I'm going

476
00:24:19,561 --> 00:24:21,241
Speaker 1: to follow down there. If that made me feel good,

477
00:24:21,241 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to follow down there. Yeah. Like a moment

478
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,561
Speaker 1: where I actually with something really switched to me was

479
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,001
Speaker 1: when I was when my kids. Mum was pregnant with

480
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,921
Speaker 1: my son at the time. You know, that's where that's

481
00:24:33,961 --> 00:24:36,761
Speaker 1: where something started to switch for me. You know, realizing

482
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,721
Speaker 1: I'm going to have a I'm going to have a baby.

483
00:24:38,761 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to have a child, my own.

484
00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:43,201
Speaker 5: Child, Isn't it. It's a very powerful moment, isn't it.

485
00:24:43,201 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 1: It really is that is And he's still you know,

486
00:24:47,521 --> 00:24:50,001
Speaker 1: he's just he's the man, my boy. He's so he's

487
00:24:50,041 --> 00:24:54,161
Speaker 1: ten now and he's Yeah, he's amazing. He's amazing.

488
00:24:54,241 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 5: He was.

489
00:24:55,041 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's always been a drive for me, more so

490
00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 1: when I was in prison. Him and his sister were

491
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 1: really strong drives for me to you know, to change

492
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:08,400
Speaker 1: my ways, to be the best head that I can be,

493
00:25:08,481 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 1: to be the best person that I can be. They

494
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:12,961
Speaker 1: are a strong drive for me. And you know, they're

495
00:25:13,001 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 1: blushing from God, They're blushing from our heavenly father. So

496
00:25:16,721 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 1: you know through that, Yeah, he's always he's always he's

497
00:25:19,721 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 1: had a bigger plane, He's had a bigger plan for me.

498
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,961
Speaker 1: There was this time why I turned around and engaged

499
00:25:25,281 --> 00:25:28,201
Speaker 1: and started to be a part of their plane instead

500
00:25:28,241 --> 00:25:29,801
Speaker 1: of trying to be a part of my own plane,

501
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,441
Speaker 1: which I don't even know what their playing was. Yeah,

502
00:25:32,441 --> 00:25:37,721
Speaker 1: I thought it was just I thought it was just

503
00:25:37,761 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 1: be a monster, try to do all these things that

504
00:25:41,481 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 1: people see, you know, people say, oh, get a house

505
00:25:43,961 --> 00:25:46,481
Speaker 1: and get a good job and do all these sort

506
00:25:46,481 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: of things. So you know, there was always in the

507
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: back burner. But to be honest, bro, year, so you.

508
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,921
Speaker 5: You're a full patch member, it kicks off one night

509
00:25:57,281 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 5: and next thing you know, you're in the heat of it,

510
00:26:01,241 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 5: guns drawn, it's an open fire, and uh, what is

511
00:26:06,441 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 5: on the loose?

512
00:26:07,961 --> 00:26:08,561
Speaker 2: How was that?

513
00:26:08,801 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 5: I mean, obviously at the time you probably were, you know,

514
00:26:12,921 --> 00:26:16,241
Speaker 5: blacked out to really the realizations of what was going

515
00:26:16,281 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 5: to occur. But in your mind, I'm I'm guessing you

516
00:26:20,561 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 5: went there knowing that you were there to stand your

517
00:26:22,721 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 5: ground and.

518
00:26:24,241 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: Do whatever it took to protect your patch.

519
00:26:26,721 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 5: And your brothers, and you definitely come out blazing on

520
00:26:31,241 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 5: that one.

521
00:26:32,001 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know I was. I've been involved in

522
00:26:34,721 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 1: many altercations, bro, many times where things have heated up

523
00:26:38,681 --> 00:26:42,001
Speaker 1: and gone you know, you have gone their way. Never

524
00:26:42,201 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: never to the extent we're that we that night, Never

525
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:51,281
Speaker 1: to that extent, and more so, never never caught red

526
00:26:51,281 --> 00:26:55,641
Speaker 1: handed like that, you know. Yeah, I've been. Yeah, We've

527
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,281
Speaker 1: been involved in some some quite hard out stuff, you know,

528
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,041
Speaker 1: things where where we've been on top and then sometimes

529
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: we're we're you know, the other guys have been on

530
00:27:04,761 --> 00:27:07,041
Speaker 1: top of us, if you know what I mean. Yeah,

531
00:27:07,321 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: more so, you know, more so i'd like to say that,

532
00:27:11,721 --> 00:27:15,321
Speaker 1: and and to be honest, there was more so. Yeah,

533
00:27:15,321 --> 00:27:18,121
Speaker 1: I'd like to say why we're better off on most times? Bro,

534
00:27:20,681 --> 00:27:24,361
Speaker 1: But you know it's it's different than all areas a bro.

535
00:27:24,481 --> 00:27:26,801
Speaker 1: You know, at that time, I had the attitude they

536
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,281
Speaker 1: were the toughest. But I'll be honest with you, brother, Yeah,

537
00:27:31,481 --> 00:27:35,801
Speaker 1: my honest truths. Not even liked it, you know, Yeah, Bro,

538
00:27:36,481 --> 00:27:39,041
Speaker 1: we're all everyone's all the toughest, if you know what

539
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone's all the toughest. Bro. There's no no

540
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,481
Speaker 1: tougher than each other. My head a tude was we're

541
00:27:44,521 --> 00:27:46,961
Speaker 1: the toughest, No one's tougher than us, we're the best,

542
00:27:47,001 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: No one's better than us.

543
00:27:48,921 --> 00:27:52,881
Speaker 5: But just just just for our audience, because obviously we're

544
00:27:52,921 --> 00:27:53,481
Speaker 5: not going to go in.

545
00:27:53,561 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: I don't want to and it's not the way I

546
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:56,281
Speaker 2: do things here on the clink.

547
00:27:56,321 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 5: I don't like to go into the deep, dark nitty

548
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:01,361
Speaker 5: gritties of people's charges and things like that.

549
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,241
Speaker 2: But just just so people.

550
00:28:02,961 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 5: Get an idea, waka, if you would like to tell

551
00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:08,241
Speaker 5: what you'd shared, what to share about that night and

552
00:28:08,481 --> 00:28:10,641
Speaker 5: what happened led to you to jail for many, many years,

553
00:28:10,721 --> 00:28:13,281
Speaker 5: and brother, I give you the floor to explain that

554
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,761
Speaker 5: rather than me say at third hand, yeah.

555
00:28:15,521 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: While I was actually looking at many years, Bro, I

556
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,801
Speaker 1: was actually looking at many years. But by the grace

557
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,241
Speaker 1: of God, I actually I see you two and a

558
00:28:23,281 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: half years out of a sentence or five years eleven months,

559
00:28:27,201 --> 00:28:31,561
Speaker 1: which was dropped down from eleven years. So it was

560
00:28:31,681 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: started at eleven years. After early guilty plea and cultural

561
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,041
Speaker 1: important stuff, it started to get dropped down and it

562
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,561
Speaker 1: got dropped down to five years eleven months for me

563
00:28:40,641 --> 00:28:43,281
Speaker 1: and my brother that was charged with the exact same crime.

564
00:28:44,001 --> 00:28:44,601
Speaker 2: Was it excess?

565
00:28:44,761 --> 00:28:47,521
Speaker 5: Was it? Was it an attempted murder in the end

566
00:28:47,721 --> 00:28:51,801
Speaker 5: or was it just discharged firearm?

567
00:28:51,921 --> 00:28:53,921
Speaker 1: Very lucky, it could have been an attempted murder, but

568
00:28:54,001 --> 00:28:57,041
Speaker 1: it was GBH with a firearm. So I got charged

569
00:28:57,081 --> 00:29:01,601
Speaker 1: with GBH with a firearm, which is another word shooting someone.

570
00:29:01,721 --> 00:29:05,441
Speaker 1: And then I also got charged with reckless disregard art

571
00:29:05,801 --> 00:29:07,681
Speaker 1: so accidentally shooting someone as well.

572
00:29:07,801 --> 00:29:09,721
Speaker 5: Was that being in a public place when you've sort

573
00:29:09,721 --> 00:29:12,481
Speaker 5: of unleashed. And then because obviously in the public.

574
00:29:12,241 --> 00:29:18,001
Speaker 1: Place, three people, three people were struck, were struck by bullets. Yeah,

575
00:29:18,121 --> 00:29:21,761
Speaker 1: I got charged with with two and my brother, you know,

576
00:29:21,841 --> 00:29:24,721
Speaker 1: he got charge worth worth one. But we also got

577
00:29:24,801 --> 00:29:27,761
Speaker 1: charge worth being in like you know, in a public place.

578
00:29:28,481 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: It was It was a very serious. It was a

579
00:29:30,801 --> 00:29:35,681
Speaker 1: very serious. It was very serious brou so lucky no

580
00:29:35,761 --> 00:29:39,521
Speaker 1: one lost their lives, so lucky no one was seriously injured.

581
00:29:39,641 --> 00:29:43,121
Speaker 1: But the nature of the crime itself was very serious. Absolutely,

582
00:29:43,161 --> 00:29:45,761
Speaker 1: a gun was drawn, a gun was drawn in ten fire,

583
00:29:46,001 --> 00:29:51,081
Speaker 1: ten shots were fired all into all our people. Yeah, bro,

584
00:29:51,161 --> 00:29:51,881
Speaker 1: it was serious.

585
00:29:52,081 --> 00:29:52,641
Speaker 2: I can see it.

586
00:29:52,681 --> 00:29:54,321
Speaker 5: I can see it on on the look on your

587
00:29:54,321 --> 00:29:56,321
Speaker 5: face and you know, on the clink.

588
00:29:56,601 --> 00:29:59,161
Speaker 2: We have a story to tell. And the beautiful thing

589
00:29:59,201 --> 00:30:01,001
Speaker 2: about each of our guests.

590
00:30:01,121 --> 00:30:04,321
Speaker 5: We do go deep into the traumas and their stories

591
00:30:04,321 --> 00:30:07,721
Speaker 5: and their background, because that's what's about, you know, we're about.

592
00:30:07,441 --> 00:30:08,681
Speaker 2: Sharing stories of redemption.

593
00:30:08,801 --> 00:30:11,321
Speaker 5: If people don't understand where you come from, then how

594
00:30:11,401 --> 00:30:14,081
Speaker 5: can there be a story of redemption in your case?

595
00:30:14,761 --> 00:30:18,401
Speaker 5: You know, this was a very very serious matter. It

596
00:30:18,441 --> 00:30:21,321
Speaker 5: was in a public place. It was an open shooting

597
00:30:21,881 --> 00:30:24,681
Speaker 5: where people were wounded, and by the grace of God,

598
00:30:25,041 --> 00:30:27,641
Speaker 5: nobody was killed. Because obviously we wouldn't be sitting here

599
00:30:27,721 --> 00:30:32,601
Speaker 5: still talking now. And you know, I think that life

600
00:30:32,641 --> 00:30:37,521
Speaker 5: would be very very different for you. You know, wow,

601
00:30:37,721 --> 00:30:40,361
Speaker 5: only you can speak of what it's like in jail there.

602
00:30:40,481 --> 00:30:43,401
Speaker 5: I mean, we hear stories and so on. How was

603
00:30:43,441 --> 00:30:47,241
Speaker 5: it for you going into the maximum security system there?

604
00:30:47,441 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 5: You've picked up off the street. You're done on a

605
00:30:50,041 --> 00:30:52,761
Speaker 5: very serious crime, one that you know sort of would

606
00:30:52,841 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 5: be quiet, I guess, spooking to a lot of people,

607
00:30:57,441 --> 00:30:59,361
Speaker 5: but not so much I guess in the sense of

608
00:30:59,361 --> 00:31:02,401
Speaker 5: the jail scene, because therefore there's a lot of violent

609
00:31:02,441 --> 00:31:04,441
Speaker 5: crime around you there and a lot of other blokes

610
00:31:04,441 --> 00:31:07,441
Speaker 5: and brothers who have also committed that sort of crimes.

611
00:31:08,081 --> 00:31:12,281
Speaker 5: Going into jail though you're a mob member, were you

612
00:31:12,321 --> 00:31:13,201
Speaker 5: put into.

613
00:31:12,921 --> 00:31:14,361
Speaker 2: Custody with other members.

614
00:31:14,401 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 5: Had just describe how it was for us, because a

615
00:31:16,481 --> 00:31:19,241
Speaker 5: lot of people won't understand how it is over there.

616
00:31:19,401 --> 00:31:22,561
Speaker 5: You know, is the jail segregated to different gangs? Are

617
00:31:22,601 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 5: you mixed? And how would that feeling be knowing that

618
00:31:25,281 --> 00:31:30,201
Speaker 5: you've shot at the opposite you know, the other team,

619
00:31:30,281 --> 00:31:33,441
Speaker 5: and next minute you're walking into jail you were a target?

620
00:31:34,001 --> 00:31:35,961
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, like I said, And it wasn't a maximum

621
00:31:36,041 --> 00:31:40,321
Speaker 1: security Yeah, I was very fortunate to not have to

622
00:31:40,321 --> 00:31:42,761
Speaker 1: go up to a MESI. I went straight into among

623
00:31:42,801 --> 00:31:46,961
Speaker 1: it all. Oh wow, just high securities, higher high securities,

624
00:31:46,961 --> 00:31:49,681
Speaker 1: the highest. AFI went straight into among it all. I mean,

625
00:31:49,721 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: I think it's also due to I have quite a

626
00:31:52,561 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: quite a clean history a brother. Yeah, yeah, like I said,

627
00:31:56,601 --> 00:31:59,801
Speaker 1: you know, I might have been you know, I might

628
00:31:59,841 --> 00:32:02,321
Speaker 1: have done some quite serious things, but I was never

629
00:32:02,881 --> 00:32:05,681
Speaker 1: caught or never charged for them. This one was where

630
00:32:05,681 --> 00:32:08,721
Speaker 1: I was charged Abra, I was charged in and stuff

631
00:32:09,161 --> 00:32:12,161
Speaker 1: for it. I'd be honest, I'd be honest. I actually

632
00:32:12,281 --> 00:32:14,081
Speaker 1: I actually started getting to a point where I thought

633
00:32:14,121 --> 00:32:16,441
Speaker 1: I was jail proof in some sense. We actually thought,

634
00:32:16,641 --> 00:32:19,761
Speaker 1: you know, I'm too smart, you know, I'll get away

635
00:32:19,801 --> 00:32:21,521
Speaker 1: with the things I do, I won't go to jail.

636
00:32:21,521 --> 00:32:24,401
Speaker 1: But that night when that happened, and later on leading

637
00:32:24,481 --> 00:32:26,401
Speaker 1: up until my arrest when they told me I'm going

638
00:32:26,441 --> 00:32:29,961
Speaker 1: among it all. Only then did it sinking. Ay brother

639
00:32:30,361 --> 00:32:32,801
Speaker 1: and I had been up for four days. On end,

640
00:32:33,641 --> 00:32:36,921
Speaker 1: I slept for like the first couple of days. There

641
00:32:37,001 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: was a COVID. There was COVID isolation going on at

642
00:32:39,801 --> 00:32:43,081
Speaker 1: dead time, so where we did get put into it

643
00:32:43,281 --> 00:32:46,881
Speaker 1: was like set up in a different different unlocks and locks,

644
00:32:46,881 --> 00:32:49,121
Speaker 1: so you'll you'll get unlocked with all those that winning

645
00:32:49,161 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: at the same time, just in case, so they are

646
00:32:51,041 --> 00:32:51,841
Speaker 1: spread of COVID.

647
00:32:52,081 --> 00:32:54,041
Speaker 5: Yeah, I went through the same thing on I did

648
00:32:54,081 --> 00:32:56,401
Speaker 5: three months from Manday over something that I'm facing at

649
00:32:56,401 --> 00:32:58,921
Speaker 5: the moment from many many years ago. And the back

650
00:32:59,041 --> 00:33:00,801
Speaker 5: end of it, I come into COVID. So we're on

651
00:33:00,841 --> 00:33:03,401
Speaker 5: a fifteen day lockdown, coming out of the watchhouses after

652
00:33:03,481 --> 00:33:05,961
Speaker 5: even days and then straight in and then you'd watch

653
00:33:06,001 --> 00:33:09,521
Speaker 5: the landings each day there's a whole separate crew coming

654
00:33:09,521 --> 00:33:11,441
Speaker 5: out and ye count your days have done your head

655
00:33:11,441 --> 00:33:13,721
Speaker 5: in because then you start seeing everybody just coming out,

656
00:33:13,761 --> 00:33:15,161
Speaker 5: but everybody had to do the same thing.

657
00:33:16,281 --> 00:33:17,641
Speaker 2: I totally get what you're saying.

658
00:33:17,801 --> 00:33:19,961
Speaker 5: And then you went down to a twenty and four lockdown,

659
00:33:20,041 --> 00:33:21,841
Speaker 5: like you know what I mean, like you split landings

660
00:33:21,881 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 5: twenty twenty hours locking four hours out. Oh brother, it

661
00:33:25,801 --> 00:33:26,361
Speaker 5: was crazy.

662
00:33:26,441 --> 00:33:29,441
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So that was that was my introduction into

663
00:33:29,441 --> 00:33:30,921
Speaker 1: among it all. Was a set up like that.

664
00:33:31,241 --> 00:33:31,521
Speaker 2: Wow.

665
00:33:31,841 --> 00:33:34,481
Speaker 1: But even even for the nature of the of the crime,

666
00:33:34,561 --> 00:33:38,361
Speaker 1: and from my experience, they don't they don't, they don't

667
00:33:38,361 --> 00:33:41,881
Speaker 1: really mix among it all just due to obviously what's

668
00:33:41,881 --> 00:33:44,921
Speaker 1: happened in the past, where you know, some some heavy

669
00:33:44,961 --> 00:33:48,561
Speaker 1: stuff go on, especially when you're mixing high security guys

670
00:33:49,201 --> 00:33:52,801
Speaker 1: from different different gangs and things like that.

671
00:33:53,201 --> 00:33:56,441
Speaker 5: So were you So there was a mob wing where

672
00:33:56,441 --> 00:33:59,041
Speaker 5: all your brothers were already and you were just basically

673
00:33:59,601 --> 00:34:02,121
Speaker 5: sent to that wing and you were sweet. Yeah.

674
00:34:02,161 --> 00:34:04,921
Speaker 1: Well I actually I actually got got bail bro after

675
00:34:05,361 --> 00:34:08,361
Speaker 1: two weeks. Wow, Yeah, I got bail. You know, you're

676
00:34:08,401 --> 00:34:11,121
Speaker 1: not you're not you're not You're only being charged with

677
00:34:11,201 --> 00:34:13,081
Speaker 1: the crime. You're not guilty of the crime, so they

678
00:34:13,081 --> 00:34:14,561
Speaker 1: can't really treat you as guilty.

679
00:34:15,321 --> 00:34:16,641
Speaker 5: Wow. Wow.

680
00:34:16,961 --> 00:34:20,241
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I actually got bail two weeks. The brother

681
00:34:20,481 --> 00:34:23,681
Speaker 1: was arrested with so my co friend that he's he's

682
00:34:23,721 --> 00:34:25,601
Speaker 1: the windy and he's been in there since the first

683
00:34:25,641 --> 00:34:28,361
Speaker 1: time we got locked up. Due to his history. You know,

684
00:34:28,401 --> 00:34:30,601
Speaker 1: he's got a real quite a violent history, so due

685
00:34:30,601 --> 00:34:33,841
Speaker 1: to that and and things like that, he hasn't been

686
00:34:33,841 --> 00:34:35,961
Speaker 1: able to get bail with For me, I got bail.

687
00:34:36,361 --> 00:34:37,961
Speaker 1: We're back to the things I was doing, you know,

688
00:34:38,041 --> 00:34:40,281
Speaker 1: went back to to the drugs and all that sort

689
00:34:40,321 --> 00:34:42,681
Speaker 1: of stuff. So it was only going to happen that

690
00:34:42,761 --> 00:34:44,561
Speaker 1: I went back, you know, I preached and I went

691
00:34:44,601 --> 00:34:48,001
Speaker 1: back and then so yeah, that was sort of my

692
00:34:48,001 --> 00:34:51,121
Speaker 1: my real introduction when I went back and went straight

693
00:34:51,121 --> 00:34:53,601
Speaker 1: down the down the wind. But with like I like

694
00:34:53,681 --> 00:34:57,481
Speaker 1: I said again, like I'll say again, with with guys

695
00:34:57,521 --> 00:34:59,561
Speaker 1: I grew up with, with guys I've known, you know,

696
00:35:00,081 --> 00:35:02,681
Speaker 1: with brothers and the mob. So it was sort of

697
00:35:02,721 --> 00:35:05,561
Speaker 1: like just going into a wing open you know, brothers

698
00:35:05,561 --> 00:35:06,441
Speaker 1: with open arms.

699
00:35:06,961 --> 00:35:07,881
Speaker 2: Well, this is the thing.

700
00:35:07,921 --> 00:35:10,681
Speaker 5: And that's why I asked the question is because you know,

701
00:35:11,281 --> 00:35:15,121
Speaker 5: jail it's a bit different here in Australia. They tend

702
00:35:15,121 --> 00:35:18,361
Speaker 5: to mix. They do segregate, the wings, they do segregate,

703
00:35:18,361 --> 00:35:20,201
Speaker 5: and they try to do their best to try and

704
00:35:20,281 --> 00:35:25,241
Speaker 5: keep each affiliation with their own, but it doesn't always

705
00:35:25,281 --> 00:35:25,881
Speaker 5: happen that way.

706
00:35:25,921 --> 00:35:27,001
Speaker 2: Brother and it's very loose.

707
00:35:27,041 --> 00:35:29,081
Speaker 5: You know, you could just turn up in another gang's

708
00:35:29,081 --> 00:35:32,561
Speaker 5: bloody wing or another jail that's you know, supposedly not

709
00:35:32,601 --> 00:35:35,641
Speaker 5: where you're meant to be because of your affiliation. It

710
00:35:35,681 --> 00:35:37,601
Speaker 5: happens all the time. Next when you're walking into a

711
00:35:37,721 --> 00:35:40,041
Speaker 5: yard and you turn the left, turn around, you go, wow,

712
00:35:40,361 --> 00:35:41,801
Speaker 5: we're all what's going on here?

713
00:35:42,241 --> 00:35:42,881
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

714
00:35:43,081 --> 00:35:45,441
Speaker 5: And you've got no choice. You've got no choice. You've

715
00:35:45,441 --> 00:35:48,761
Speaker 5: got to deal with it. The situation being over there

716
00:35:48,881 --> 00:35:50,961
Speaker 5: would be quite comfortable for a lot of young men

717
00:35:51,041 --> 00:35:53,761
Speaker 5: coming into jail for the first time with that strong

718
00:35:53,801 --> 00:35:58,721
Speaker 5: gang mindset. You know, everything's accessible, it's easy, we can

719
00:35:58,761 --> 00:36:01,041
Speaker 5: do this that whatever, you know what I mean. It's

720
00:36:01,121 --> 00:36:02,761
Speaker 5: not like you're going to do it rock. It's not

721
00:36:02,801 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 5: like you're on your pat and you're doing it rock

722
00:36:04,481 --> 00:36:06,801
Speaker 5: and you know you're really struggling. You've always got I

723
00:36:06,801 --> 00:36:09,481
Speaker 5: guess somebody there to lean on, you know what I mean,

724
00:36:09,601 --> 00:36:11,361
Speaker 5: or to help out or pick you up when you're down.

725
00:36:12,601 --> 00:36:15,081
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess you know that. That's how it was

726
00:36:15,121 --> 00:36:17,161
Speaker 1: for me. But I know a lot of other guys

727
00:36:17,161 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: that have been put in those positions where they've gone

728
00:36:19,481 --> 00:36:21,801
Speaker 1: down wings and it's it's the total opposite.

729
00:36:21,401 --> 00:36:22,521
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know what I mean.

730
00:36:22,641 --> 00:36:25,801
Speaker 1: It was just yeah, I guess, very fortunate for me,

731
00:36:25,881 --> 00:36:28,921
Speaker 1: and it wasn't like that. I would like to believe

732
00:36:28,961 --> 00:36:31,801
Speaker 1: that if it was. I want to just you know, yeah,

733
00:36:32,281 --> 00:36:35,561
Speaker 1: it would have been. Yeah, it is what it is sometimes,

734
00:36:35,561 --> 00:36:38,601
Speaker 1: but where for me, very fortunate, very fortunate that didn't

735
00:36:38,601 --> 00:36:39,481
Speaker 1: happen for me. Brother.

736
00:36:39,881 --> 00:36:41,481
Speaker 5: I like the way you just said, it is what

737
00:36:41,521 --> 00:36:44,801
Speaker 5: it is sometimes in that situation, that would have been

738
00:36:44,921 --> 00:36:52,041
Speaker 5: very interesting if that's what it was. Well yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

739
00:36:52,481 --> 00:36:54,441
Speaker 1: Oh, you know, I guess that it comes hand in

740
00:36:54,481 --> 00:36:56,721
Speaker 1: hand in their lifestyle. Rather we get put and we

741
00:36:56,801 --> 00:36:59,361
Speaker 1: getn't we get put in positions and places. It's just

742
00:36:59,401 --> 00:37:03,241
Speaker 1: about adept into them and and they're doing our best. Really.

743
00:37:03,401 --> 00:37:05,561
Speaker 1: But it wasn't until I went down into the units

744
00:37:05,601 --> 00:37:08,681
Speaker 1: we were mixed with other people from other games.

745
00:37:09,041 --> 00:37:11,321
Speaker 2: How did you find that waka? And was it spoken of?

746
00:37:11,401 --> 00:37:12,041
Speaker 2: What I mean?

747
00:37:12,121 --> 00:37:15,201
Speaker 5: Look to me, I'm always a bit old school. You know,

748
00:37:15,201 --> 00:37:17,561
Speaker 5: as long as you're not a sex offender or a

749
00:37:17,641 --> 00:37:20,281
Speaker 5: known dog or whatever, I don't really care what you're

750
00:37:20,321 --> 00:37:21,721
Speaker 5: in jail for, you know what I mean, Like I

751
00:37:21,721 --> 00:37:23,801
Speaker 5: don't want to hear your war stories. I don't want

752
00:37:23,801 --> 00:37:25,801
Speaker 5: you coming and telling me all about your crimes. I'm

753
00:37:25,801 --> 00:37:27,881
Speaker 5: not and a lot of blokes don't. It's just it's

754
00:37:27,961 --> 00:37:31,561
Speaker 5: not how it works. How was it, though, when you're

755
00:37:31,601 --> 00:37:34,361
Speaker 5: coming into, like you say, mixed environment where people are

756
00:37:34,361 --> 00:37:36,561
Speaker 5: going to be curious. People would have known your high

757
00:37:36,561 --> 00:37:39,241
Speaker 5: profile matter because I'm sure that a matter like that

758
00:37:39,601 --> 00:37:41,081
Speaker 5: would be under public notice.

759
00:37:41,241 --> 00:37:43,321
Speaker 2: Everybody would have known about it. The media would have

760
00:37:43,401 --> 00:37:44,081
Speaker 2: been all over it.

761
00:37:44,361 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 5: So you couldn't really hide from the fact that you're

762
00:37:46,481 --> 00:37:49,201
Speaker 5: in there for spraying an opposite gang.

763
00:37:49,441 --> 00:37:51,561
Speaker 2: How did that? How did that evolve? And how how

764
00:37:51,641 --> 00:37:52,481
Speaker 2: was all that for you?

765
00:37:52,561 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: Well, at the time, it wasn't something I was trying

766
00:37:54,441 --> 00:37:59,321
Speaker 1: to hide, you know, Yeah, it wasn't something I was

767
00:37:59,361 --> 00:38:02,001
Speaker 1: trying to hide. But I'd be honest with you. Before

768
00:38:02,001 --> 00:38:05,761
Speaker 1: I went down to the units, I actually I actually

769
00:38:05,801 --> 00:38:08,401
Speaker 1: had already made a choice, you know, pretty much to

770
00:38:08,441 --> 00:38:13,481
Speaker 1: avoid getting on the bad side of the jail system,

771
00:38:13,481 --> 00:38:15,321
Speaker 1: because I wanted a clean record. I wanted to do

772
00:38:15,361 --> 00:38:17,081
Speaker 1: my best. Then when I came to parole, they could

773
00:38:17,121 --> 00:38:19,001
Speaker 1: look and say, oh, you know, this guy's been behaving,

774
00:38:19,041 --> 00:38:21,881
Speaker 1: he will let him out. So and a lot of

775
00:38:21,881 --> 00:38:26,321
Speaker 1: that came from the thought of looking at team plus years,

776
00:38:26,361 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: because I was looking at ten plus years, and their

777
00:38:28,481 --> 00:38:30,961
Speaker 1: thought really started to sink. And yeah, so when I

778
00:38:31,001 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: when I when I went in and I realized, I'm

779
00:38:33,441 --> 00:38:35,321
Speaker 1: not you know, I'm not getting out too to I

780
00:38:35,401 --> 00:38:37,641
Speaker 1: do my time. That's when I thought, man, and if

781
00:38:37,681 --> 00:38:40,121
Speaker 1: I'm looking at ten years, I'm going to split up

782
00:38:40,161 --> 00:38:43,161
Speaker 1: this process because I got, yeah, I got I've got

783
00:38:43,281 --> 00:38:45,721
Speaker 1: kids to get up to you. I got I got

784
00:38:45,761 --> 00:38:46,401
Speaker 1: a fun at you.

785
00:38:47,401 --> 00:38:48,921
Speaker 2: I rate that and I really do.

786
00:38:49,041 --> 00:38:52,041
Speaker 5: And why I say that is because my last sentence

787
00:38:52,161 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 5: was double figures and I end up put my hand

788
00:38:55,041 --> 00:38:58,161
Speaker 5: up early played guilty twenty five percent reduction because I

789
00:38:58,241 --> 00:39:01,681
Speaker 5: played guilty straight off the bat right, So you know,

790
00:39:01,761 --> 00:39:06,081
Speaker 5: the double figures come down to a high single out.

791
00:39:06,441 --> 00:39:09,401
Speaker 5: My wife was four months pregnant at the time when

792
00:39:09,401 --> 00:39:11,641
Speaker 5: I was sentenced, and I'll never forget it. She was

793
00:39:11,681 --> 00:39:13,841
Speaker 5: in the courtroom and the judge read out ten years,

794
00:39:13,881 --> 00:39:16,041
Speaker 5: and you know, the scream.

795
00:39:16,761 --> 00:39:18,801
Speaker 2: From her was, you know, like, no, you know like

796
00:39:18,841 --> 00:39:19,161
Speaker 2: I mean.

797
00:39:19,201 --> 00:39:20,801
Speaker 5: And so when you speak of you know, you've got

798
00:39:20,841 --> 00:39:22,401
Speaker 5: to get out to your children, you got to get.

799
00:39:22,241 --> 00:39:24,361
Speaker 2: Out for that.

800
00:39:24,601 --> 00:39:28,561
Speaker 5: It's traumatizing to think that that is always played in

801
00:39:28,561 --> 00:39:31,961
Speaker 5: my head because of that moment. But instead of me

802
00:39:32,121 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 5: thinking like yourself, I went the opposite way and spent

803
00:39:35,601 --> 00:39:39,081
Speaker 5: you know, eighteen months of just rebel, rebel, rebel, rebel,

804
00:39:39,161 --> 00:39:43,121
Speaker 5: segro rebel, rebel, like anti and I'd upset the inmates

805
00:39:43,121 --> 00:39:45,001
Speaker 5: because of the way that things running there. You know,

806
00:39:45,041 --> 00:39:47,201
Speaker 5: I'm bringing too much heat and attention because I was

807
00:39:47,361 --> 00:39:51,121
Speaker 5: acting out, being loud, being aggressive. It's not a good

808
00:39:51,121 --> 00:39:53,401
Speaker 5: thing at all. The boys don't like it. And at

809
00:39:53,401 --> 00:39:55,921
Speaker 5: the end of the day, you're upset in the apple

810
00:39:55,921 --> 00:39:57,761
Speaker 5: cut because things are pretty sweet, as you would know,

811
00:39:57,841 --> 00:40:00,801
Speaker 5: especially long terms, there's ways that things are happening, things

812
00:40:00,801 --> 00:40:02,161
Speaker 5: that are going on behind the scenes.

813
00:40:02,561 --> 00:40:03,561
Speaker 2: You don't rock that boat.

814
00:40:03,761 --> 00:40:06,121
Speaker 5: But for me, I was like the opposite, and I

815
00:40:06,161 --> 00:40:08,361
Speaker 5: had to learn the hard way basically of you know,

816
00:40:09,241 --> 00:40:11,321
Speaker 5: pull your head in suppose and just kick back and

817
00:40:11,761 --> 00:40:14,361
Speaker 5: focus and find that positive and get through it, you know,

818
00:40:14,361 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 5: and get out to your kids and be a man,

819
00:40:17,121 --> 00:40:20,281
Speaker 5: be a real man. What was the turning point? Was?

820
00:40:20,281 --> 00:40:23,281
Speaker 5: Was there any major point that sort of said to you, right,

821
00:40:23,321 --> 00:40:25,721
Speaker 5: that's it. I have had enough. This is not what

822
00:40:25,761 --> 00:40:27,561
Speaker 5: it's all made out to be, and I want to

823
00:40:27,681 --> 00:40:28,761
Speaker 5: walk a straight line.

824
00:40:29,041 --> 00:40:31,601
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you know, lucky for me, I actually had

825
00:40:31,641 --> 00:40:34,081
Speaker 1: my older brother. I had my older brother Bronson, who

826
00:40:34,401 --> 00:40:37,041
Speaker 1: who sort of went through a similar experience and through jail,

827
00:40:37,201 --> 00:40:41,721
Speaker 1: and so I had him sort of guiding me along

828
00:40:41,761 --> 00:40:42,281
Speaker 1: through mine.

829
00:40:42,401 --> 00:40:42,641
Speaker 5: You know.

830
00:40:42,721 --> 00:40:46,041
Speaker 1: He he sort of really mentored me through mine and

831
00:40:46,081 --> 00:40:51,881
Speaker 1: sort of encouraged me to, you know, do do it

832
00:40:51,961 --> 00:40:53,561
Speaker 1: the way I've done it. You know, he was, he was,

833
00:40:53,601 --> 00:40:57,401
Speaker 1: you know, it was really a positive encouragement for me,

834
00:40:58,201 --> 00:41:02,241
Speaker 1: giving me, you know, the advice I needed to hear,

835
00:41:02,281 --> 00:41:04,881
Speaker 1: you know, he to be honest, brother, it had a

836
00:41:04,881 --> 00:41:06,641
Speaker 1: time time. I really wanted to take it all the way.

837
00:41:06,641 --> 00:41:08,121
Speaker 1: I didn't want to do no jail time for it.

838
00:41:08,161 --> 00:41:10,921
Speaker 1: So I really wanted to do my best to lie

839
00:41:10,961 --> 00:41:12,761
Speaker 1: and get off it. Then I was trying to come

840
00:41:12,841 --> 00:41:15,121
Speaker 1: up with how could I how could I get found

841
00:41:15,201 --> 00:41:17,601
Speaker 1: not guilty for this, because man, no, I want to

842
00:41:17,601 --> 00:41:18,801
Speaker 1: get out of here. I don't want to do any

843
00:41:18,841 --> 00:41:22,321
Speaker 1: of this. But you know, through my brother's experience through

844
00:41:22,361 --> 00:41:24,841
Speaker 1: sort of doing the same thing and going not guilty

845
00:41:24,881 --> 00:41:27,161
Speaker 1: and then getting found guilty and then getting hit with

846
00:41:27,641 --> 00:41:30,681
Speaker 1: like nine years, you know, he he he sort of

847
00:41:30,721 --> 00:41:32,881
Speaker 1: you know, pretty much told me, Bro, you need to

848
00:41:33,081 --> 00:41:37,881
Speaker 1: you need to be honest with yourself. If yeah, you

849
00:41:37,961 --> 00:41:39,881
Speaker 1: need to be honest with yourself and make a make

850
00:41:39,921 --> 00:41:42,641
Speaker 1: a clear decision on what you're going to do, because

851
00:41:43,161 --> 00:41:46,401
Speaker 1: don't be like me and go not guilty, get found guilty,

852
00:41:46,441 --> 00:41:49,161
Speaker 1: and then get eleven years a brother, because you'll be

853
00:41:49,161 --> 00:41:51,401
Speaker 1: doing that's what will happen, you know either. Yeah, So

854
00:41:51,521 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: I really had to be honest with myself, a brother,

855
00:41:55,001 --> 00:41:56,801
Speaker 1: and that's where it sort of started to think, I

856
00:41:56,921 --> 00:42:01,761
Speaker 1: think that's where it started to really bro That's where

857
00:42:01,801 --> 00:42:07,641
Speaker 1: I was like, man, yeah, I did it. By the

858
00:42:07,641 --> 00:42:10,841
Speaker 1: looks of things that there's nowhere getting off this my

859
00:42:11,001 --> 00:42:20,961
Speaker 1: faces clearly on video camera. Uhh Yeah. So they harden

860
00:42:21,041 --> 00:42:26,161
Speaker 1: up and take the consequences of your actions, whatever those

861
00:42:26,481 --> 00:42:29,841
Speaker 1: whatever those may be, you know. Yeah. So I really

862
00:42:29,881 --> 00:42:36,841
Speaker 1: had to acknowledge, accept, and address. So firstly, brother, I

863
00:42:36,841 --> 00:42:39,081
Speaker 1: had to acknowledge that what I was, what I had done,

864
00:42:39,241 --> 00:42:39,561
Speaker 1: was wrong.

865
00:42:41,161 --> 00:42:41,361
Speaker 5: Yeah.

866
00:42:43,161 --> 00:42:49,481
Speaker 1: I had to accept that jail was the consequence. And

867
00:42:49,521 --> 00:42:54,321
Speaker 1: then I had to address address my offending, address what

868
00:42:54,401 --> 00:42:56,761
Speaker 1: I had done and not just that all the stuff

869
00:42:56,801 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: I'd done in the past. That, yeah, all the things

870
00:43:00,521 --> 00:43:05,121
Speaker 1: I've done in the past, the people I've heard, the

871
00:43:05,201 --> 00:43:07,281
Speaker 1: crimes I had committed all that sort of all that

872
00:43:07,441 --> 00:43:11,121
Speaker 1: unhealthy stuff. I had to address it and and yeah, bro,

873
00:43:11,281 --> 00:43:15,641
Speaker 1: so with that, I realized, yet I made a firm decision.

874
00:43:15,641 --> 00:43:21,041
Speaker 1: Then I'm gonna go guilty. I'm gonna go guilty. You know,

875
00:43:21,081 --> 00:43:22,841
Speaker 1: I'm still gonna fight itt as best as I can

876
00:43:22,921 --> 00:43:26,201
Speaker 1: in a sense of a cultural report and things like

877
00:43:26,281 --> 00:43:32,361
Speaker 1: that in remorse letters. Ah. So, yeah, that's what I've done.

878
00:43:32,401 --> 00:43:37,801
Speaker 1: By the I gained the courage in and come to

879
00:43:37,841 --> 00:43:42,641
Speaker 1: the fact that I'm gonna go guilty. I'm gonna go

880
00:43:42,761 --> 00:43:46,161
Speaker 1: guilty on these charges. But see, at first, but I

881
00:43:46,201 --> 00:43:48,161
Speaker 1: was getting I had like it was like twenty something

882
00:43:48,321 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: charges I was being charged with. But through the time

883
00:43:51,001 --> 00:43:54,001
Speaker 1: of going not guilty and slowly getting things dropped off

884
00:43:54,041 --> 00:43:57,521
Speaker 1: and my lawyer working on it and getting things taken off,

885
00:43:57,561 --> 00:43:59,201
Speaker 1: and so I end up being charged with probably eight

886
00:43:59,281 --> 00:44:01,561
Speaker 1: charges by the end of it, I went guilty.

887
00:44:01,561 --> 00:44:03,161
Speaker 5: And they come at you with a did they give

888
00:44:03,201 --> 00:44:05,521
Speaker 5: you a plea bargain to play guilty or was it

889
00:44:05,601 --> 00:44:08,521
Speaker 5: just basically for you an option that you just said, no,

890
00:44:08,681 --> 00:44:12,361
Speaker 5: I'm pleading guilty. We've got these charges and that's that's

891
00:44:12,401 --> 00:44:12,721
Speaker 5: the way.

892
00:44:13,161 --> 00:44:15,681
Speaker 1: Yeah, we will want my lawyer done, bro, awesome lawyer.

893
00:44:15,721 --> 00:44:20,641
Speaker 1: What's what she done along with? Yeah, with our other

894
00:44:20,681 --> 00:44:22,841
Speaker 1: lawyer that was fighting the case through through my brother,

895
00:44:23,041 --> 00:44:25,441
Speaker 1: because we're jointly what would you call it, We're like

896
00:44:25,521 --> 00:44:28,761
Speaker 1: both getting charged. So our lawyers were both doing the

897
00:44:28,801 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: best they could. Yep, we're both doing the best they could.

898
00:44:33,521 --> 00:44:35,681
Speaker 1: She pretty much got it down to where I was

899
00:44:35,721 --> 00:44:38,001
Speaker 1: only being charged with what I did. Do you know

900
00:44:38,081 --> 00:44:40,081
Speaker 1: exactly what I did do? I was being charged with that.

901
00:44:40,241 --> 00:44:43,641
Speaker 1: So I pretty much got charged with my full participation

902
00:44:43,841 --> 00:44:47,281
Speaker 1: in the crime. Yeah, Yeah, which was fair enough, you know,

903
00:44:47,321 --> 00:44:50,241
Speaker 1: which was fair enough. Yeah. At first I was being

904
00:44:50,281 --> 00:44:52,361
Speaker 1: charged with all types of things. Things they're like, well,

905
00:44:52,401 --> 00:44:54,681
Speaker 1: I didn't even do that, But you know, that's how

906
00:44:54,761 --> 00:44:57,001
Speaker 1: we're saying, your lawyer starts. That's when your lawyer starts

907
00:44:57,001 --> 00:45:00,521
Speaker 1: actually doing their job where they start. Yeah, So that's

908
00:45:03,001 --> 00:45:05,081
Speaker 1: so that's what happened with me. Brother, so and I

909
00:45:05,121 --> 00:45:07,681
Speaker 1: since I plead not guilty, was the work in my favor.

910
00:45:07,721 --> 00:45:09,401
Speaker 1: But then it got to a point where right now

911
00:45:09,401 --> 00:45:11,161
Speaker 1: it's now it's serious time.

912
00:45:11,361 --> 00:45:11,561
Speaker 5: Yeah.

913
00:45:12,801 --> 00:45:15,921
Speaker 1: And again thanks to my brother for mentoring me and

914
00:45:15,921 --> 00:45:18,481
Speaker 1: guiding me along dead and giving me positive advice and

915
00:45:19,201 --> 00:45:20,881
Speaker 1: telling me what I needed to hear, not what I

916
00:45:20,921 --> 00:45:23,841
Speaker 1: wanted to hear, you know, pretty much telling me that

917
00:45:24,681 --> 00:45:29,881
Speaker 1: and yeah, you're you're gonna do some jail, but hey, yeah,

918
00:45:30,241 --> 00:45:30,721
Speaker 1: suck it up.

919
00:45:30,721 --> 00:45:32,201
Speaker 2: I love the way. I love the way you speak.

920
00:45:32,321 --> 00:45:36,561
Speaker 5: I love the way that you're speaking so respectful and

921
00:45:36,601 --> 00:45:41,041
Speaker 5: loving and proud of your brother guiding you in that

922
00:45:41,121 --> 00:45:43,081
Speaker 5: right path from his own lived experience.

923
00:45:43,561 --> 00:45:47,001
Speaker 2: You know, you could have I guess been arrogant. Ah No, bro,

924
00:45:47,121 --> 00:45:48,001
Speaker 2: I don't care, you know.

925
00:45:48,041 --> 00:45:51,241
Speaker 5: Like put on that big bravado walk, the walk, you

926
00:45:51,281 --> 00:45:53,921
Speaker 5: know what I mean, like I'm a mob member, whatever.

927
00:45:54,041 --> 00:45:57,841
Speaker 5: But you you've actually stopped. And once again I want

928
00:45:57,881 --> 00:45:59,921
Speaker 5: to give you credit because you are a very intelligent

929
00:46:00,001 --> 00:46:03,561
Speaker 5: man and by your choices have allowed you then to

930
00:46:03,721 --> 00:46:08,161
Speaker 5: have options today to better yourself. Because had you have not,

931
00:46:08,521 --> 00:46:11,281
Speaker 5: then you wouldn't be out. You'd be still well and

932
00:46:11,361 --> 00:46:12,641
Speaker 5: truly deep into a sentence.

933
00:46:12,641 --> 00:46:16,321
Speaker 1: Correct, you were all glory to God on that brother,

934
00:46:16,361 --> 00:46:18,321
Speaker 1: because you know, at the same time as I was

935
00:46:18,361 --> 00:46:20,241
Speaker 1: going through that, that's when I started to pray again.

936
00:46:20,761 --> 00:46:23,561
Speaker 1: And as I started to pray again, I feel and

937
00:46:23,641 --> 00:46:26,961
Speaker 1: believe it was giving him an opportunity to start to

938
00:46:27,001 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: work through me and to start helping me make those

939
00:46:29,481 --> 00:46:33,121
Speaker 1: wiser decisions and wiser choices. So it all came hand

940
00:46:33,121 --> 00:46:36,761
Speaker 1: in hand brother, through cut of care. I was, yeah,

941
00:46:36,761 --> 00:46:39,721
Speaker 1: I was giving God that opportunity to help me make

942
00:46:39,801 --> 00:46:43,161
Speaker 1: clearer decisions along with the support of my brother, and

943
00:46:44,401 --> 00:46:46,681
Speaker 1: it turns out to be the best decisions I could

944
00:46:46,721 --> 00:46:47,121
Speaker 1: have made.

945
00:46:47,481 --> 00:46:50,761
Speaker 5: It's amazing God. God is very powerful. And I think

946
00:46:50,801 --> 00:46:53,321
Speaker 5: that you know, until people seem to be in their

947
00:46:53,401 --> 00:46:56,241
Speaker 5: darkest hours, do they not ever actually think or reach

948
00:46:56,321 --> 00:46:57,481
Speaker 5: out or pray.

949
00:46:58,081 --> 00:46:59,721
Speaker 2: And it's sad because.

950
00:47:01,401 --> 00:47:04,721
Speaker 5: We need to pray more, We need to have more faith,

951
00:47:05,201 --> 00:47:08,521
Speaker 5: need to trust in the Lord. And I'm not talking

952
00:47:08,561 --> 00:47:11,681
Speaker 5: about anyone said religion or anything like that. Look, that's

953
00:47:11,721 --> 00:47:13,201
Speaker 5: not what it's about. And I'm not going to get

954
00:47:13,201 --> 00:47:16,641
Speaker 5: into who's right and who's wrong about whatever. There is

955
00:47:16,681 --> 00:47:23,881
Speaker 5: one God, and you know, if you have faith, then

956
00:47:24,441 --> 00:47:27,281
Speaker 5: believe in that God because God is great and God

957
00:47:27,641 --> 00:47:30,361
Speaker 5: will walk beside you if you allow Him into your heart.

958
00:47:31,121 --> 00:47:37,081
Speaker 5: Now it is brother, it's a very powerful, powerful acceptance.

959
00:47:37,441 --> 00:47:42,561
Speaker 5: Once you accept then life is never going to be perfect.

960
00:47:42,641 --> 00:47:44,361
Speaker 5: It's not meant to be perfect. We're not meant to

961
00:47:44,361 --> 00:47:46,961
Speaker 5: be given you know, the silver spoon and the golden

962
00:47:47,041 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 5: light and here's your path. Now you pray, you walk

963
00:47:49,481 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 5: off and you walking on water and it's all good.

964
00:47:51,441 --> 00:47:53,961
Speaker 5: It's not what it's about. It's not like that at all,

965
00:47:54,601 --> 00:48:00,161
Speaker 5: you know, it's it's it's very much a reality a

966
00:48:00,161 --> 00:48:05,641
Speaker 5: big reality check. And once you accept and understand, there

967
00:48:05,721 --> 00:48:07,721
Speaker 5: is a beautiful light and there is a light heart,

968
00:48:08,161 --> 00:48:10,561
Speaker 5: and there is there is goodness, and there is good

969
00:48:10,561 --> 00:48:13,761
Speaker 5: things that come. But you have to take that step

970
00:48:13,801 --> 00:48:16,801
Speaker 5: and walk into into God's hands. You can't just expect

971
00:48:16,881 --> 00:48:19,321
Speaker 5: him to, you know, open his arms and you just

972
00:48:19,361 --> 00:48:21,161
Speaker 5: walk around him all the time, just tapping him on

973
00:48:21,201 --> 00:48:22,881
Speaker 5: the hand every time you go past, just because you

974
00:48:22,961 --> 00:48:27,041
Speaker 5: might need something because you're in trouble. Walk into God's arms.

975
00:48:28,281 --> 00:48:31,001
Speaker 1: Yes, brother, I like I like that scripture where it's

976
00:48:31,201 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: is what was intended for bad, he intends for good

977
00:48:35,201 --> 00:48:39,001
Speaker 1: through all yeah, through all that, through everything that went on, brother,

978
00:48:39,201 --> 00:48:41,841
Speaker 1: it turned out to be And you know, the best

979
00:48:41,841 --> 00:48:43,601
Speaker 1: thing that could have ever happened to me really because

980
00:48:43,641 --> 00:48:46,361
Speaker 1: it really gave me that opportunity in so many ways,

981
00:48:46,441 --> 00:48:49,001
Speaker 1: like to self reflect, to be pulled away from what

982
00:48:49,081 --> 00:48:52,161
Speaker 1: I knew, to to really sort of rock bottom and

983
00:48:52,241 --> 00:48:54,201
Speaker 1: realize that ah, you know.

984
00:48:55,641 --> 00:48:58,601
Speaker 5: Yeah, sometimes sometimes the key is hitting rock bottom, isn't it?

985
00:48:58,641 --> 00:49:00,161
Speaker 2: I swear by it.

986
00:49:00,201 --> 00:49:02,641
Speaker 5: You know people that have sort of interviewed me with

987
00:49:02,681 --> 00:49:04,921
Speaker 5: my background and my story and the why and the how,

988
00:49:05,521 --> 00:49:08,321
Speaker 5: and I always say it was sitting in segro two

989
00:49:08,401 --> 00:49:10,801
Speaker 5: men had lost their lives and I'd hit rock bottom.

990
00:49:10,841 --> 00:49:13,041
Speaker 5: And I realized halfway through my sentence, either that's going

991
00:49:13,081 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 5: to be me taking my own life because I can't

992
00:49:15,481 --> 00:49:16,201
Speaker 5: deal with it anymore.

993
00:49:16,521 --> 00:49:18,001
Speaker 2: Or I'm going to be doing life.

994
00:49:18,401 --> 00:49:21,881
Speaker 5: And probably get killed because of my bad attitudes and actions.

995
00:49:22,921 --> 00:49:25,681
Speaker 5: What do I do? Do you pick up a Bible

996
00:49:25,801 --> 00:49:27,561
Speaker 5: or a Quran or whatever it is that you have

997
00:49:27,601 --> 00:49:30,521
Speaker 5: access to. Once again, no one has the right to

998
00:49:30,561 --> 00:49:33,161
Speaker 5: sit there and judge. God is the only person that

999
00:49:33,161 --> 00:49:36,961
Speaker 5: can judge. But do you put your faith in a

1000
00:49:37,041 --> 00:49:42,281
Speaker 5: higher purpose? Yes? Yes, And at that moment is where

1001
00:49:42,401 --> 00:49:45,321
Speaker 5: you find peace within your own heart. No matter what

1002
00:49:45,441 --> 00:49:47,761
Speaker 5: full walls are around you, no matter how small that

1003
00:49:47,841 --> 00:49:50,401
Speaker 5: cage is, whether you're getting let out to go and

1004
00:49:50,441 --> 00:49:52,561
Speaker 5: go to the toilet, have a shower, make a phone call,

1005
00:49:53,161 --> 00:49:56,961
Speaker 5: it all becomes irrelevant because in that moment, your mind

1006
00:49:57,041 --> 00:49:59,481
Speaker 5: needs to find peace, your heart needs to find peace,

1007
00:49:59,681 --> 00:50:03,001
Speaker 5: and prayer will only give you that peace because no

1008
00:50:03,041 --> 00:50:08,681
Speaker 5: one else is going to answer your call. Yes, brother, yes,

1009
00:50:09,561 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 5: and it's it's a big realization. But like you say,

1010
00:50:12,081 --> 00:50:17,041
Speaker 5: you know, it's for us a learning process and we've

1011
00:50:17,081 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 5: had to hit rock bottom to bounce out. And there's

1012
00:50:19,561 --> 00:50:21,681
Speaker 5: many many other people out there that will be listening

1013
00:50:21,761 --> 00:50:23,281
Speaker 5: to this that are right on that cusp at the

1014
00:50:23,281 --> 00:50:26,201
Speaker 5: moment or coming off that rock bottom. And praise to you,

1015
00:50:26,321 --> 00:50:28,721
Speaker 5: and please keep walking in that path and keep walking

1016
00:50:28,721 --> 00:50:31,481
Speaker 5: towards a better day in that light because open open

1017
00:50:31,521 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 5: your heart and just you know, if the opportunity is there,

1018
00:50:35,441 --> 00:50:37,841
Speaker 5: accept it. And the opportunity is there for everyone. So

1019
00:50:37,921 --> 00:50:40,201
Speaker 5: I mean, at the end of the day, it's on you.

1020
00:50:40,921 --> 00:50:43,641
Speaker 2: That concludes part one of Brand's chat with TI.

1021
00:50:44,401 --> 00:50:46,961
Speaker 5: In part two, we'll hear about the turning point that

1022
00:50:47,041 --> 00:50:48,201
Speaker 5: put him on the path.

1023
00:50:48,161 --> 00:50:50,641
Speaker 3: To a record. Don't try and make you out comfortable,

1024
00:50:51,761 --> 00:50:54,801
Speaker 3: photo record. You try and world and stuff for your

1025
00:50:55,081 --> 00:50:59,001
Speaker 3: photo record. Lab on me going the way photo record.

1026
00:50:59,161 --> 00:51:01,761
Speaker 3: Ain't trying to Lenk, not trying to wish stuff for.

1027
00:51:03,481 --> 00:51:11,681
Speaker 4: The record. Photo photo recond photo ragg Fort, the Reggon Fort,

1028
00:51:11,681 --> 00:51:23,681
Speaker 4: the Ragged h