1 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: It's just an interesting part of the story because it 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: was this ship that these Bushrangers were attempting to escape 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: on and it did disappear, so maybe some people want 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: to believe that other men were on there and they 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: did get away with the gold. 6 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: I'm Jen Kelly from The Herald's Son and this is 7 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 2: in Black and White, a podcast about some of Australia's 8 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 2: forgotten characters. We're back for part two of the story 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 2: of bushranger George Melville, who was part of an audacious 10 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: robbery of a gold escort heading from the Goldfield to 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 2: Melbourne in the eighteen fifties. Make sure you listen to 12 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 2: part one first, we're talking again with Damian Beard, a 13 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 2: tour guide at Penridge Prison Tours. As Damien told us 14 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 2: in part one, police were closing in on the Gang 15 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: of Bushrangers after finding a startling clue. A revolver had 16 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 2: been stolen from a man's tent on the gold Fields 17 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: and a map of the ship Madagascar had been left 18 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:16,199 Speaker 2: behind with the incriminating words Jay Francis cabin passenger written 19 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: on it. And just a warning. This episode contains discussion 20 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 2: about self harm. If you or anyone you know needs help. 21 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 2: You can contact Lifeline on one three double one one 22 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 2: four and you can find more helplines in the show 23 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 2: notes to this episode. This is so mysterious. Why would 24 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 2: somebody steal a revolverly behind a map? 25 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 3: It seems so obvious that it's like a hacky detective novel, 26 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 3: like a young adult novel, you know, So that's what 27 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 3: led some people suggest No, maybe they knew something else 28 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 3: than this was a ruse or something like that. 29 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: And it's possible that often the truth is just so 30 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: much stupid of a that, you know, I just told 31 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: you about Frank Christy who escaped from pantries by climbing 32 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: over the one meets a wall of a prison. So 33 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: often he's just those little things like that. But back 34 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: in Melbourne, the men are either staying in Collingwood, the 35 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: city or Melville went to his house in Little Burke Street. 36 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: The Francis brothers, with their wives and George Wilson had 37 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: booked passage to England on the Madagascar. The Atkins were 38 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: intending to head to Sydney, Joe Gray was allegedly intending 39 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: to head to Adelaide, and George and Alfonsine were on 40 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: board the Colooney which was heading to Mauritius. They speak French, 41 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: why not get out of the English colonies altogether? The 42 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: English and the French still not particularly great friends after 43 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: the Napoleonic Wars. So on the tenth of August eighteen 44 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: fifty three, Detective Constable Thompson and Constable Eason bought the 45 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: Madagascar with a warrant to arrest John and George Francis 46 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: on suspicion of theft of the revolver and a bowie knife. Now, 47 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: some people have suggested that this is a ruse, that 48 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: they already suspected these men of the Mackaivy robbery. Not 49 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: really sure that it's a long effort to travel from 50 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: Maciva to Melbourne just for a stolen revolver, So maybe, 51 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: but we're really not sure. George isn't on board, but 52 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: John is, and he's apprehended. His rooms were searched, but 53 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: he had enough time to get word to George Wilson, 54 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: who's also on board, to hide the stolen gold in 55 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: George Francis's room, because George Francis's room has already been searched, 56 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: so they figure they're not going to go back and 57 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: have another look. John Francis is arrested on suspicion of 58 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: the theft of the revolver and the knife, and he 59 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: is being rowed to shore with his wife, and as 60 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: he does, he asks permission to pull up to the 61 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: colooney so that his wife could be looked after by 62 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: the Melvilles, and this possibly implicates the Melvilles in police's mind. 63 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: From here, George and Olfuonseine now George Francis is later 64 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: found and arrested on shore and John and George are 65 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: brought before the courts. They're immediately discharged for lack of 66 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: evidence the theft of the pistol and the knife, but 67 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: then walking out the door of the court immediately re 68 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: arrested on suspicion of being taking part in the Mackai 69 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: for Gold escort robbin. On August eleventh, the Madagascar and 70 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: the Colooney was searched. Gold is found on the colooney 71 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: and twenty three pounds of sovereigns as well as various 72 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: other banknotes cash this kind of thing, and then George 73 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: Wilson is arrested on the Madagascar when three hundred and 74 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: fifty eight pounds in gold sovereigns is found in his room, 75 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: but Why did they go search the whole ship and 76 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: a whole other ship is the big question. Possibly because 77 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: when John Francis is dropping his wife off with the Melvilles, 78 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: this raises suspicion in police's mind, but quite probably it's 79 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: because of what happens with George Francis. On eleventh of August, 80 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: Captain McMahon of the Police sends for George Francis at 81 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: the City locker and he points out the notice on 82 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: the gate five hundred pounds reward and passage out of 83 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: the colony. Does George turn what they call approver an informant? 84 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: Absolutely yes, he does. Remember he's already done this once 85 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: before back in Van Demon's Land as well. On the 86 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: same day, George Melville is arrested by Detective Ashley at 87 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: the north Star Hotel and he is found with more 88 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: money and a revolver on him. Not sure if that's 89 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: a missing revolver or not. Also, William and Agnes Atkins 90 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: are arrested at their house in Little Burk Street. Now 91 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: no one had implicated these people so far, they absolutely 92 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: had to have been informed on by George Francis. In 93 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: in fact, he comes with police to their house. Detective 94 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: Ashley and George Francis entered the house and Francis identified 95 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: Atkins as one of the bushrangers. They found money in 96 00:05:55,400 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: bank drafts and pans, and then the detective if you know, 97 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: asks Agnes Atkins do you have any money? And she's 98 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: very indignant, but finally she is searched and they find 99 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: banknotes and money hidden in the hem of one of 100 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: her dresses, sewn in there. On August thirteen, detectives Ashley 101 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: and Murray and a Sergeant Simcock take George Francis to 102 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: mc ivor with warrants to arrest more men Robert Harding, 103 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: Edward McAvoy, George Shepard, and George Elston more Georges. 104 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:28,679 Speaker 2: We don't need any more Georges. 105 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: More George's more Georges. 106 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 2: And who were these men, Damien? 107 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: Good question, We don't know. An author has suggested that 108 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: Francis was trying to muddy the waters. He already feels 109 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: guilty about informing on people, especially his brother, so figures 110 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: if I just implicate a whole bunch of other dudes, 111 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: put them all on trial, there's going to be this. 112 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: You know, he was here, he was and blah blah blah, 113 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: it's going to get thrown out. Possibly the troopers swore 114 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: blind that they were attacked by at least fifteen to 115 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: twenty men, So maybe there were men more men involved 116 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: in the robbery than we actually know. Because again, the troopers, 117 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: when they've all been caught unawares and you know, ambushed, 118 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: and haven't even managed to get a shot off in return, 119 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: they're going to say it wasn't six guys, you know, 120 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: it was fifty guys, and they're all with machine guns 121 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: and they were invented back then or anything like that. 122 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: But still you get the idea they were embarrassed. Yeah. 123 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: So Harding, McAvoy, Shepherd, and Elston had already moved on 124 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: to Golben from Mackaiva, So on seventeenth of August they 125 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: show up at the Golden Diggings. But the policemen are like, 126 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: we're not going to go into the camp because we'll 127 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: be recognized as tramps, as traps immediately. It will give 128 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: the game away. So instead they send George Francis in 129 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: to look for them, and he does a runner instead 130 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: of finding them. Now all four men, Harding, McAvoy, Shepherd 131 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: and Elston are caught the next day as was George Francis. 132 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: He was caught near Mackiva Goldfields. They're taken back to 133 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: Melbourne to go before the courts, and then they take 134 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: a few days to make their way down there. By 135 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: the twenty first of August they've reached what's now cal Calo. 136 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: Francis in handcuffs for extra security and to isolate him 137 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: from the other four who were obviously not feeling particularly 138 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: well disposed to him by this point. He's actually taken 139 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: to the house of the manager of the lock up, 140 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: Robert Small. At nine am the next morning, Francis asked 141 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom and he's escorted by Trooper 142 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: Thomas Cox. He says, you know, can you take my 143 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: chains off so I can actually do my business in 144 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: the outhouse and Cox says, no probs. He takes him in, 145 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: and after a few moments, Cox hears an absolutely horrible 146 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: noise from inside the authouse. He pushes open the door 147 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: to find George Francis with his throat cut. 148 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 2: What is that possible? 149 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: Again? Another author has alleged that someone snuck into the 150 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: outhouse and was waiting for him with a razor and 151 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: somehow murdered him. I don't know if you've seen the 152 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: average size of a privy closet back then, but they 153 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: call it a closet for a reason. It's small. What 154 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: was found was a razor in his hand, belonging to 155 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: the keeper of the lock up, Robert Small, and that 156 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: raisor had allegedly been in the room where Francis had 157 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: been kept overnight. He'd pocketed and he'd ended his own life. 158 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 2: We'll be back soon to hear what happened next, so 159 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 2: stay with us. 160 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: On August twenty fifth, they're brought before the court for 161 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: examination Melville Wilson Atkins, his wife, Agnes Atkins, Elston Harding 162 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: and McAvoy. No word of what's happened to Shephard from here. 163 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: They're all in handcuffs, which the defense lay kicked up 164 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: a bit of fuss about as this was unconstitutional, and 165 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: John Francis appears in place of his brother and gives evidence. 166 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: John has now turned approver. Elston Harding and McAvoy, the 167 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: men who were implicated by John's brother George Francis, were remanded, 168 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: but then there's no further record a found of them, 169 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: same with Agnes Actkins, so they were quite obviously discharged 170 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: without convictions, so no evidence was found to implicate them 171 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: in being involved in this robbery, which kind of lends 172 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: a bit of theory to the credits that it was 173 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: just those you know, six or seven guys, amongst whom 174 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: George Melville Atkins and George Wilson. They're not so lucky. 175 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: They're amanded to a higher court to hear charges, and 176 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: on seventeen they appear in the Supreme Court before Justice 177 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: Williams and placed on trial for the robbery of the 178 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:35,599 Speaker 1: gold escort, specifically three charges, one of which is wounding 179 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: the driver Fooks and putting him in fear of his life. 180 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: Some of the charges were also for stealing gold of 181 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: one thousand ouncers or more belonging to certain individuals, And 182 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: this actually sort of causes a bit of illegal wrangling 183 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 1: because what happens is there's no proof that's alleged by 184 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: the defense that some of the gold was held by 185 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: those people who are then being put forward in the 186 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: trial as the owners of that gold and things like that. 187 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: We'll get to that in a moment. It's a pretty 188 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: quick trial. It goes from twelve pm to about eight pm, 189 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: but trials work quick back in those days, and ned 190 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: Kelly famously two day trial. Justice Williams still says he 191 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: regrets the time taken on the trial, the whole eight hours. 192 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: What he reminded the jury before they deliver their verdict 193 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: that the result of the verdict was not their worry 194 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: and in effect that the blood would be on his 195 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: hands as a representative of the justice system, not theirs. 196 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: If they find guilty, that's not going to be leading 197 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: them to be directly the cause of the death of 198 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: these men. Which is interesting because Justice Williams he seems 199 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: to be he knows that the crime is being committed. 200 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if he was someone who was privately 201 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: opposed to the death penalty things like that, but he 202 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: has a bit of an interesting attitude to the prisoners. 203 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 1: There's a forty minute for guilty verdict on the first count, 204 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: which included the assault on folks and making him in 205 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,439 Speaker 1: fear of his life. But then there's a bit of 206 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: legal wrangling over the defense allegend. You know, we can't 207 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: prove that this gold belonged to these people because the 208 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 1: certificates saying such and such a person owned this amount 209 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: of gold were lost in the robbery, and in fact 210 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: Williams defers the sentencing after this because he confers with 211 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: Sir Edmund Barry to decide what it's going to you know, 212 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: is this actually a thing that's going to cause a 213 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: bit of a legal hiccup or anything like that, But 214 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: Redmond Barry, being Redmond Barry, is like, no, it's fine, 215 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: and so there's nothing worth delaying the sentencing. They are 216 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: then appear in court next day to be sentenced. To 217 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: Melville asks to speak. He's reminded that he you know, 218 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: the verdict has already been placed. You can't say anything 219 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: right now that will change the verdict. And George Melville 220 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: said no, I don't care about that. He says, I 221 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: want the truth to be out. I know where I'm going. 222 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: I know that I am going to peer before a 223 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: higher court who's tribunal judges themselves would be judged before. 224 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: He knows that, you know, he's going to heaven, and 225 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: he wants to go to heaven with a clean slate. 226 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: So he says, you know, several witnesses bore false evidence 227 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 1: against him. He knew the time to change the verdict 228 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: was gone, but he wanted to confess with a clean 229 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: slate and say this is what really happened. And Justice 230 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: Williams is really very impressed by this. He says words 231 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: to the effect that, you know, he commends him for 232 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: his stoicism in accepting his fate and saying, I wish 233 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: that everyone who appear before this court approached these things 234 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: with such a value set of values, in an attitude 235 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: that you did. And he uses the time to get 236 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: a few shots in at John Francis as well, being 237 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: you know, this wicked man who bore witness against you 238 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. 239 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 2: Oh interesting, Yeah, so John Francis did get that huge 240 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 2: reward he did. 241 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: What happens is all three men on trial, Melville, Atkins 242 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: and Wilson, are sentenced to death. They are taken to 243 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: the old Melbourne Jail. Melville Natkins' wives visited them quite frequently. 244 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: Poor Agnes Atkins, she was only like eighteen or nineteen 245 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: at this point in time, and she was pregnant, and 246 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: she was now left destitute. And in fact, I believe 247 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: I've never been able to prove this, but I read 248 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: somewhere that collections were raised to give her some money 249 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: to live on. All three of them spent time with 250 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: the priests, but they never confessed to the robbery. At 251 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: six am on the third of October eighteen fifty three, 252 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: they woke and they dressed for their execution. At eight 253 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: o'clock the sheriff announced the hour had arrived, and then Melville, 254 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: then Wilson, then Natkins left. Their cells were pinioned and 255 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: taken to the gallows outside. At this point in time, 256 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: the gallows was still outside in what's now the yard 257 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: of old Melbourne Jail. They were public at that point 258 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: in time. The gallows were tall enough that you could 259 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: see if you were standing outside, you could see over 260 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: the top of the wall and see the men on 261 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: the gallows. They dropped through the trap door. They disappeared 262 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: from sight. They were later moved inside because of what 263 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: happens afterwards. There is a crowd outside waiting. It's allegedly 264 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: the largest crowd to witness an execution at that point, 265 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: and Melville attempted to address the crowd, but he gave 266 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: up when he realized they couldn't hear him, and he 267 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: just wished them a good morning. Wilson spoke and he 268 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: again mentioned false evidence against them, and he also said 269 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: that there is a man in jail at the time 270 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: who had been convicted of a robbery and sekilled a 271 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: road who was innocent. Now, Wilson was alleged to be 272 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: part of this robbery, and he is apparently taking his 273 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: time on the go as to say, no, this guy 274 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: wasn't involved. Oh no, this is just a footnote in 275 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: the story and I know nothing more about it. It's 276 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: very frustrating. But hangman Walsh descends the stairs and pulls 277 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: the bot. Atkins died immediately, but the other two died hard, 278 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: with Walsh having to run below the trap door and 279 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: pull on their legs to pull them against the noose 280 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: so quickly. Yeah, there is the aftermath. Alfonsine applies for 281 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: George's Melville's body, takes a tour oyster shop and you 282 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: know what happens next from there. This is so controversial 283 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: that legislation is amended. Government moves slowly. It takes them 284 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: till eighteen sixty five. But all people executed at Old 285 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: Melbourne Jail from eighteen sixty five on, including Ned they 286 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: move the gallows inside Old Melbourne Jail. The gallows are 287 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: still there. Parts of it are original, parts of it 288 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: are not. You can come to a tour and see it. 289 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: The beam is definitely original. And then once they are 290 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: executed there I think it's about forty four people are 291 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: executed inside. They are then buried on site where the 292 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: basketball court is at r MIT. Now that is where 293 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: they are buried to prevent exactly what happened with George 294 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: ever happening again. 295 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 2: Now there's another interesting PostScript to this story, isn't there? 296 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: There is the Madagascar, the ship that the Francis brothers 297 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: and Wilson were wanting to escape on. It left Melbourne 298 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: on Friday the twelfth of August, left Port Phillips Heads 299 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: and was never ever seen again. 300 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 2: Ye, any thoughts about what happened? 301 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: There are stories. It was apparently quite a famous maritime 302 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: mystery at the time. So it was carrying a huge 303 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: cargo of wolves. So some people thought that the walls 304 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:31,959 Speaker 1: spontaneously combusted and it was lost at sea with all 305 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: hands in that manner, That's the one I tend to believe. 306 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: Interesting fact, about thirty years later, most of the sort 307 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: of sailing ship trade was being done by ships ferrying coal, 308 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: and I know in the eighteen eighties about thirty percent 309 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: of all ships lost at sea were lost to coal 310 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: fires coal explosions, so that's more prosaic reason. But there 311 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 1: is alleged that there were possibly other members of the 312 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: gang who were never convicted, who were on board that ship, 313 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: and allegedly they mutinied, murdered all the other passengers and 314 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: disappeared with the gold. This story is backed up by 315 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: an apparent deathbed confession from someone who was either a 316 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: passenger who survived or a mutineer. That's just a story, 317 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: you know, there's never anything written down. Just there was 318 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: a deathbed confession. We have no proof, Honestly, I don't know. 319 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: It's just an interesting part of the story because it 320 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: was this ship that these Bushrangers were attempting to escape 321 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: on and it did disappear. So maybe some people want 322 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: to believe that other men were on there and they 323 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: did get away. 324 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: With the gold and Damien what happened to Melville's body. 325 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: So the authority has got the back. I have read 326 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: in one place that he was then interred at Old 327 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: Melbourne Jail. One hundred percent sure about that. But we 328 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: do know that there were anywhere from thirty four to 329 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: fifty something bodies buried. Now we don't know because most 330 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: of those bodies were found in no teen twenty eight 331 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: twenty nine. In nineteen twenty four, Old Melbourne Gel closes. 332 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty eight they start knocking it down, making 333 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: way for what becomes r MIT. What's left up on 334 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: Rossell Street. It's only about twenty percent of the whole site. 335 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,719 Speaker 1: It took up the whole city block. As they do this, 336 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: they uncover all the bodies in the graveyard. It's not 337 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: a graveyard like you'd think it was. What you have 338 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: is there are bodies buried, and if you're lucky, the 339 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: presents who buried the bodies might scratch initials into a 340 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,719 Speaker 1: wall and you can still see some of these stones 341 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: because when they knock down those walls, they use the 342 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: stones to build the sea walls of Brighton and bo 343 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: Morris Beach. So if you go to Brighton Beach in 344 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: front of the sea wall, you dig down about a 345 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: meter or so, you will find scratched into one of 346 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 1: the stones there MN which is Martha Needles. She was 347 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: the originally poisoner executed in the eighteen nineties. There. That's 348 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:51,239 Speaker 1: the only one I found. Because if you go to 349 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: a beach and dig holes, you know a meter deep, 350 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: telling people you're looking for graves people look at your 351 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: book him Brighton. But most of the bodies are removed, 352 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: taken up to Pantridge, buried in three mass graves up there, 353 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: not all of them. In two thousand and two, during 354 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: the construction of the r MIT Alumni Courtyard which is 355 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: there now, a body was found in a corner over 356 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: near the wall, so that was not where the graveyard was. 357 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: And they also found some leg bones of some other people, 358 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: and I think some bones of a dog, So there 359 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: may be people there, we just don't know. But most 360 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: of them were moved up to Pentridge. There are still 361 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: some of them buried up there, including the woman I 362 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 1: spoke to you about last time, Jean Lee, still at Penridge. 363 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 2: Since we spoke a couple of months ago, you've actually 364 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 2: found out some more fascinating information about jean Lee. What 365 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 2: did you find out? 366 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: I did, Literally while we were recording the podcast, some 367 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: documents arrived in the mail. So you asked me last 368 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: time details about Jeane's daughter, and I said I just 369 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: didn't know, and whether that information had been suppressed or 370 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: not in any way formally or informally. I did find 371 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: out her name, Jill. That's all I found out reading 372 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: a book where some people did some quite significant research 373 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: about the case. It does appear you asked me if 374 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: gene mum and her daughter visited her while she was 375 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: effectively on death row at Penridge. I don't believe they did. 376 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: They couldn't find absolutely no evidence of it. It seems 377 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: like Jean's daughter just went on to live her life 378 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: when her mum wasn't a part of her life from 379 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: when she was a young kid. I also have to 380 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 1: correct myself. I did say that they were Lee Andrews 381 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: and Clayton granted a retrial. They were not. 382 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 3: They were. 383 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: The trial was essentially reviewed, would they be given a retrial? 384 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: And the higher courts decided no, they actually didn't need to, 385 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: and their conviction was reinstated that way. Now, there were 386 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,959 Speaker 1: appeals that went all the way to the Privy Council. 387 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: And what is really interesting about this is the Privy 388 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: Council obviously did not overturn their sentence, but they were 389 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: executed before formal notice that that sentence had not been 390 00:21:55,240 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: overturned was received in Australia to be delivered by mail, 391 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: and they are executed some few days before that actual 392 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: letter saying their sentence has not been overturned and they 393 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: will hang was received by the government. So people have 394 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 1: argued since then that that bill was actually a bit 395 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,719 Speaker 1: of a miscarriage of justice because the government didn't officially 396 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: know that they were allowed to hang these. 397 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 2: People and Damien. Where and how can listeners hear more 398 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 2: stories like these? 399 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: So you can come to either of our big bluestone 400 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: museums of sadness and oppression. You can come to Old 401 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: Melbourne Jail where if you do the Escape Artist's Tour, 402 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: you can be taken down to where that graveyard is 403 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: or was, I should say, hear all the stories about 404 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: this and particularly what happened to what they thought was 405 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: ned skeleton in nineteen twenty eight, twenty nine. That's too complicated. 406 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: It's very very darkly funny though, so I love telling 407 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: that story on that On that tour. Part of the tour, 408 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: you can come and see George Melville's death mask here 409 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: as well and read some of his story. Old Melwyn 410 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: Jale is open seven days a week. You don't have 411 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: to do a tour. You can just come in and 412 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: see all this stuff for yourself as well. We also 413 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: have the City Watchhouse, which is where I'm sitting recording 414 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: this right now absolutely freezing and it is. You can 415 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: also pay a little bit extra money, and occasionally we 416 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: do historical tours of this place. Come in and see 417 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: the old city watchhouse where people were taken after they 418 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: had been arrested, but before they were put before a judge, 419 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: from nineteen o six all the way up until nineteen 420 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: ninety four, I think, and we do quite regularly the 421 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: watchhouse experience, where you can have someone pretending to be 422 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: a police sergeant arrest you and lock you up in 423 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: the cell if that's your idea of fun, a little 424 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: bit too much of being a teenager, but anyway, up 425 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: at Pentridge Prison we also do a lot of the 426 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: stories of this kind of stuff. Now Penridge is much 427 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: more than modern history because Penridge was in operation for 428 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: a lot longer Penridge, same kind of prison colonially or 429 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: at prison, but in operation all the way up until 430 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven. At Pendrich we do tours that are 431 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: a lot longer. You Basically you get thirty forty minutes 432 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,640 Speaker 1: with a guide like me telling you stories about either 433 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: B Division or the notorious H Division, and then time 434 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: inside one of those buildings exploring cells, listening to audio 435 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: content that's the stories of surviving inmates and wardens in 436 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,199 Speaker 1: their own words. Essentially, we also do night tours up 437 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: there six thirty and eight thirty every Thursday, Friday, Saturday night. 438 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: Those tours are essentially the similar to the H Division. 439 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: The content is a bit darker and you get the 440 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 1: added bonus you know, you're exploring an abandoned jail in 441 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 1: the middle of the night. It's pretty cool. And we 442 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: finally we also do a kid's tour, which might sound 443 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: a bit shocking, but it is. You know, look, I 444 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: am a history teacher, I'm a primary school teacher. I 445 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: believe that kids can handle way more than we think 446 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 1: they can, and it is a way to just introduce 447 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: kids to the idea of you know, jail's worth these 448 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: horrible things. Not everyone necessarily deserve to be there all 449 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: the time. And so every Sunday morning at ten thirty, 450 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: they come in, they get a little bit of a 451 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: history about the place why H Division was created. Then 452 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: they get to go into H Division do this really 453 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: cool fun activity where you solve a bunch of clues 454 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: to prevent an escape and stuff like that. 455 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 2: Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming in and 456 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 2: sharing another story with us. 457 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, absolutely, Thank you so much for having me 458 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: absolute pleasure. 459 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 2: As always, Thanks Damien, thank you, thanks for listening. This 460 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 2: has been In Black and White, a podcast about some 461 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 2: of Australia's forgotten characters, written and hosted by me Jen Kelly, 462 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,959 Speaker 2: edited by Harry Hughes, and produced by John ti Berton. 463 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 2: You can find all the stories and photos associated with 464 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 2: our episodes at Heroldsun dot com dot au slash ibaw. 465 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 2: If you've enjoyed this podcast, we'd love you to leave 466 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 2: a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Even better, leave 467 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 2: a review. There's one simple way you can help us 468 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 2: get the word out to more listeners. Any comments or 469 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 2: questions please email me at in Black and White at 470 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 2: Heroldsun dot com dot au. Any clarifications or updates will 471 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 2: appear in the show notes for each episode, and to 472 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 2: get notified when each new episode comes out, make sure 473 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 2: you subscribe to the podcast feed