WEBVTT - Malicious Prosecution | William Tyrrell: 7 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.320 Now, the turial case was perplexing because there wasn't a 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:04.359 cleave suspect. 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:06.280 This is hands rap. 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:11.320 There was an initial phase searching for the lost child. 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:14.280 The detective who was in charge of the investigation into 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:18.320 William Toole's disappearance right from the beginning. 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:20.680 And that went on for a couple of weeks and 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.759 that bore no fruit at all. So clearly there was 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.319 something more to the situation than a little boy lost 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:28.040 in the bush. 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:31.840 But Hans doesn't want to talk to me for this podcast. 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.559 He clearly didn't wander off by himself. 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:37.839 So this interview you're listening to was conducted by a 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.600 colleague of mine, Caroline Overington, a few years ago now, 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:44.919 for her own reporting on William's disappearance. 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:49.199 What is it that prompts that feeling there's something more 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:53.600 to this? It was the ane logical explanation. He didn't 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.280 wander off. We know he didn't wander off, so what 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:57.160 else could there be? 0:00:58.480 --> 0:00:59.360 What was your feeling? 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.800 Well, I think that someone grabbed him off the street, 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:06.080 bundled him into a car, and he just disappeared, which 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:07.320 is really really sad. 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:13.160 Hans has got good reason for thinking William was abducted 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:16.240 for one thing, he's a veteran policeman. 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.560 Look I joined in February of nineteen seventy four, so 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:21.640 it's been a career of forty one years. 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:26.200 Forty one years, first in uniform and then as an investigator. 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.080 I went to plane clothes in the late seventies ninety 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.119 seventy nine and I went to the CIBA in nineteen 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:32.680 eighty two. 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:37.840 CID means Hans was a detective and he spent the 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:42.480 decades since carving out a reputation as a tough, hard 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:46.000 working operator working on the biggest crimes. 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:48.760 I think it was about nineteen ninety two I went 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:52.080 to the homicide squad, so effectively for the last thirty years, 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:54.920 I've investigated bank robbers and murderers. 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:59.640 Meaning Hans knows what he's talking about, and I don't 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.160 read anything into the fact that he doesn't want to 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.440 talk to me when I call him. It's ten years 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:09.360 since William Tyrrel was reported missing, and almost ten years 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:13.320 since Hans himself retired from the New South Wales Police. 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:15.920 When he was put in charge of the investigation into 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:20.600 William's disappearance, Hans was only a few months off retirement, 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.120 so he explains he's been out of the loop for 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:29.400 almost a decade. Talking to Caroline a few years earlier, however, 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.200 Hans still had some strong opinions. 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:36.919 Murderers don't murder strangers. It's a rear event. 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:41.280 Murderers don't typically murder strangers. He says. 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.959 People always kill someone they know, whether that's a loving 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:49.760 relationship or a domestic relationship, or a business relationship that's 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.720 gone bad. Something there's something to tie the offender to 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:53.639 the victim. 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:58.240 The detective's job is usually finding out that thing tying 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:04.440 offender to victim. H except William's case was different. 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:06.160 That's not your belief. 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:08.799 No, absolutely, this has got nothing to do with the 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.160 chur case at all. Your feeling was always that it 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:16.280 was the stranger. Absolutely, there was a stranger involved. I 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:18.280 don't think any member of the family involved at all. 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:23.120 No, So Hans is certain it was a stranger who 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.720 took William and his family were not involved at all. 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:32.799 Early decisions are critical in long police investigations. Even though 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.880 Hans worked on William's case for only a few months, 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:40.920 he still had a massive impact on the years that followed. 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:45.480 You retired, didn't you after four months on that case? 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:47.400 So you weren't able to see it through. 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:49.600 Do you think if you had. 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:53.840 Would we have a result? That's impossible for me to say. 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.880 I don't know, but I know when I left it, 0:03:57.280 --> 0:03:58.800 I think it was in good hands. 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:01.960 Hans says he's happy with the way he left the 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:03.440 William Tyrell investigation. 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.960 Look, I don't dwell on the ones that got away, 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:10.040 but look, I'm happy with what I've achieved, and that's 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:12.280 pretty good. And now this is a different stage of 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:12.760 my life. 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:22.000 But not everyone agrees the investigation was in a good 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.600 place when Hans left it. You're about to hear from 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:29.560 the detective who took it over, the homicide squad commander 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:33.719 who oversaw this transition, and the man at the very 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:38.560 center of the police investigation who describes it as a 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:43.599 poisoned chalice. I'm Dan box and from news dot com 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:50.120 dot Au. This is Witness William Tyrell Episode seven, Malicious Prosecution. 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.039 Hello, Justing, wonder is rue. 0:04:58.480 --> 0:04:59.000 Good question? 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:01.560 Um coffee? 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.720 Bill Spedding describes himself as not the kind of man 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:09.599 to draw attention to himself. He hopes people see him 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:14.840 as a pretty straightforward guy, an ordinary grandfather. At home, 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.799 he and his wife Margaret drive an ordinary maroon colored 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:25.279 Ford Fairline which they call Myrtle. But really nothing about 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:29.279 the Spedding's life has been ordinary over the past ten years. 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:39.120 I might just wait for Peter. Which is why we're 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:42.159 meeting not at Bill's home but in the offices of 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:46.479 his lawyer in Sydney, because within months of William's disappearance, 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:50.360 Bill would become front page news right across the country, 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:54.200 and his lawyer is now sitting listening to this interview 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.240 with Bill and Margaret just thinking back to before William 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:02.640 went missing? What was life like for you then? Was 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:03.160 it happy? 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:04.160 Was it going well? 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:04.800 Yeah? 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:08.479 Oh, well it was good at the time. Is business 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:13.400 was doing well, successful in the community. The kids are 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:17.560 in the forty teams in their weekend sport. We had 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:23.440 soccorn Saturdays in IFL on Sundays and middle marvelous group 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.880 of parents and the other children in the teams. 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:30.839 While they had good friends where they were living. The 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:36.080 Spedding's family history is complicated. Bill and Margaret have each 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:40.279 been married before with kids from previous relationships, and there 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.800 had been falling out within their families, some more bitter 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:48.159 than others. Yes, what were you looking forward to then? 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:51.880 Well, just retiring down that area. 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:55.760 That area was the mid north coast of New South Wales. 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.719 The Speddings lived in Bonnie Hills, a village about twenty 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.799 minutes drive from where William was reported missing. Bill worked 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:08.200 as a white goods repairman, installing air conditioners fixing fridges. 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:13.160 Three days before William's disappearance, he was called to look 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:15.760 at the washing machine in a house on a dead 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.040 end road called Bennerun Drive. 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:23.960 And I just called in there and had to go 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:28.760 back later on to finish the job off. Our first 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:34.640 knowledge of the disappearance was by the news newscast that 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:40.360 evening of the six o'clock news, and there didn't mean 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.200 anything to us other than the fact that a child 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:48.960 had disappeared in the local community. And the name didn't 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:52.400 mean anything to me because the name of Dural was 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:56.960 not my customer's name. So nothing fill into place, nothing twigged. 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:01.920 Bill would later write a book about what happened, although 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:05.480 it's never been published. I've got a copy. The book 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.560 says Bill had ordered the parts to fix the washing 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:12.080 machine and was waiting for them to be delivered when 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.840 he got a call from the house on the morning 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:19.520 William was reported missing. Bill didn't pick up. When he 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:24.400 saw the missed call, he called back, no answer. But 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:27.440 there were other phone calls between Bill and the house 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:29.920 both that day and later. 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:36.120 And I was quite surprised and be told mind the police, 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.760 because they rang me and said that I was not 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:45.800 to mention or disclose that William had disappeared from the house. 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:48.480 And then I said, well, how was I supposed to 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.679 know that when it wasn't there when I was there. 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:56.920 Four months later, January twenty fifteen, Bill and Margaret were 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.520 sitting on their back verandah when the police arrived search 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:01.200 his house. 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:06.920 The search all of our house. Wasn't that surprise at all, 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.200 No surprise, because so I knew that they were doing 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:14.079 searches and around the area, and when they turned up, 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:17.760 we weren't on duely surprise. I thought, well, are fair 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:20.960 enough the investigating their disappearance and come on in, guys, 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:23.240 you know, do your thing and we we'll get out 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:23.720 of your way. 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:27.160 But the media found out about it. 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.600 Police arrived at their Bonnie Hills home at seven point 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:34.199 thirty on Tuesday morning. They spent forty eight hours excavating 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:36.840 the backyard and emptying a sceptic tam. 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.880 Morning Sean, what's the latest on that. We have fresh 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.600 pictures that are coming to you now as we go 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.760 to wear that this is the latest development. It's believed 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.440 this semi rural property is linked to another property that 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.480 was rated yesterday here in Laurenton where we are a 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.200 flat where items were taken there. 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.480 They took computers out, they took a mattress out, and 0:09:57.280 --> 0:09:58.280 they took a ton of stuff out. 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:00.400 Actually they filled the back of our yard waggon up. 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.920 Detectives have sent away three cars, mobile phones, a mattress 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.160 and computer equipment for forensic testing. 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:11.840 Those raids and the media reporting would change everything in 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:12.760 Bell's life. 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.960 I didn't realize that things were so intense except Tom 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:24.280 when during the first record or police interview and the 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:25.920 question he was relentless. 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:28.800 I believe you went to that address better and drive 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:34.040 Kendall on the twelfth of September twenty fourteen. 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:35.960 I never went near there. 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:39.960 This is a recording of Bill Spatting's police interview. 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:44.559 You were there to fix that washing machine. Perhaps you 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:47.880 didn't make it to the house because as we know, 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:51.960 William Tyrrell was wandering around the front yard of his 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:56.080 grandmother's house on his own he had no supervision bony 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:57.520 parent at that time for a few minutes. 0:10:57.840 --> 0:10:58.400 We know that. 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:05.600 Okay, we believe you were there. 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:10.240 I wasn't there. And the police are really getting upset 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:14.240 with me because they were asking questions which I had 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:20.840 no knowledge of the content, and asking what happened to 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.679 certain phone calls? And I said not that. I've got 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:26.480 no idea. 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:28.640 I'm telling you on your official records, you've got a 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.720 phone call at nine o three am, but it isn't here. 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:34.600 Is anything you can tell me about that? 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:39.880 No, what this indicates to us, So that specific phone 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:42.079 call you received, you deleted from that. 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:43.679 Phone You can't delete it. 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.720 You deleted that number. You can deleted that incoming call 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.480 so that when police extracted your phone they wouldn't find 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.720 it in the extraction of the phone. Why is that 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:56.320 phone call not in your incoming calls on the twelfth 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.320 of September twenty fourteen at nine oh three am, I 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.520 don't know. Did you delete that phone call. 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:04.760 Now, as far as you can't delete. 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:07.480 Did you delete that phone call from your telephone number now, 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.000 from your mobile telephone now to show the police that 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:12.440 that phone call did not occur for whatever reason? 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.240 I don't know I didn't delete anything. 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:19.600 In his book. Bill says that was the call about 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.720 fixing the washing machine at the house where William was staying. 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.119 He says it didn't show up in his phone records 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:30.400 because he used the automated answer phone service. Bill pressed 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.400 one oh one to listen to the message, then pressed 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.800 twenty two to redial the number. So it wasn't like 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.600 a normal phone call. But it went beyond asking you 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:46.560 certain questions. They said to you, we believe that you 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:47.960 may have grabbed William. 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.640 We believe that you may have grabbed William from that 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:55.679 front address, from the front yard of that address, may 0:12:55.720 --> 0:13:00.520 have left the area. Then in one knowing, I'm sorry, 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:04.520 I wasn't they did you take William? 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.800 Til No. I just sat there and thought, what are 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:10.800 you talking about? I wasn't there. 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:12.239 Were you frightened? 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:20.360 Oh? I was bewildered, very much bewildered in the questioning. 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.600 And if Bill says he was bewildered by the questions 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:28.319 asked in the recorded police interview. What the detectives asked 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:31.360 him when they turned off the tape must have been 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:35.839 even more confusing. There was one point when I think 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:38.640 the police were driving you from your house to the 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.199 police station on that day. In the car, they asked 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.240 you if you knew any pedophiles, yes, and you said, 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:51.000 you know, I don't know the names there people you 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.920 knew from the past, just related. And they said, what 0:13:54.960 --> 0:14:02.160 about Jeffrey meaning Jeffrey Hillsleyy was Bill's former brother in 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:06.440 law from a previous marriage. At that time, Jeffrey was 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.040 serving a life sentence for raping a ten year old 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:14.480 girl and murdering her stepfather. But did you think at 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.960 that point they're asking me about pidophiles? Did that start 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:19.640 to what did you think? 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:28.720 Then? I was very naive. I was totally overwhelmed, very 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:32.840 nive about please question me. And I hadn't done anything 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:37.360 to feel guilty about, and so I'm thinking, well, well, 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:39.880 they're just asking normal questions. 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.600 After you left the police station that day you interviewed 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.240 for six hours, Yes, and you left the police station. 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.040 And as you left, you've given evidence saying that one 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:52.800 of the detectives shouted at you, we know you did it, 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.520 We're going to get you. I'm going to arrest you. Yeah, 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:06.240 this one detective did. And that was a about William Tyrell. Right, Okay, 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.840 So there's a lot to unpack here. At this point, 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.200 all Bill knows is the police have turned up at 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:17.040 his door, raided his house and later his business office. 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:21.600 They've driven him away asking about pedophiles and spent six 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:26.920 hours questioning him, including saying they believe he took William. 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:34.360 But why are the police so focused on him? 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:39.040 Well, by this stage, the disappearance of William Terrel had 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:40.760 saturated the press. 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:45.080 This is Bill Spedding's lawyer Peter O'Brien speaking in a 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:46.040 separate interview. 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:51.840 It had permeated well into the community psyche. It worried appearance, 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:56.840 It worried anyone in our community who's right minded and 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.800 thinking of that, the welfare of this poor child who 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:08.040 gone missing in such mysterious circumstances. And the police response 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:13.600 was naturally and correctly to do whatever they could. The problem, 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:19.800 I think in some respects with the approach that they 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:25.760 took is that they focused through heavily on Bill Spedding 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.840 once they had what was probably a distorted piece of 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.360 fabricated information on an anonymous tip. 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.400 That anonymous tip was made within days of William Tyrrell 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:41.920 being reported missing. According to police records, the cops received 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.360 at least one call claiming Bill has a history of 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:50.480 alleged involvement in some really awful offenses. I'm not going 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:54.000 to say what those alleged offenses are, because here's the 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:58.160 thing about them, they'd already been thrown out in court 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:03.280 decades early. When a judge said the person making these 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:10.960 allegations against Bill was quote obsessive, compulsive, and bizarre. It's 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:14.520 all tied up in that complicated family history and the 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.840 falling outs I mentioned at the start of the episode. 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:23.160 The judge said this person's evidence quote contained inconsistencies which 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.480 were so numerous that I cannot now take the time 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:31.119 to refer to them. He also said this person programmed 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:36.119 and tutored others to make allegations against Bill, allegations the 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:42.200 judge said he was reasonably satisfied were not true, which 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:46.080 is a problem because if the police were following that 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:50.840 anonymous tip, they should have known this, and if they 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.840 didn't know it before they raided Bill's house, they certainly 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:58.639 should have done so after. Because a copy of the 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:03.399 court records maintaining the judge's damning demolition of the case 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:10.960 was seized during the police raid on Bill's office. Looking 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:15.000 back at it now, how much damage do you think 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.439 that has done to Bill and the people he was 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:19.160 living with at the. 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:24.080 Time, Well, incalculable amount of damage. But what it seems 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.520 to have done in this case is put him at 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.439 the center, and entirely by coincidence, for the fact that 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:32.560 he was a washing machineer Peerman going about his ordinary 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:37.639 daily work that has brought him to the center of 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:43.040 the disappearance of a child. That's raised the entirety of 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:44.240 a stratus concerns. 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:50.000 That, however, isn't even the worst of it, to my mind. 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:53.640 The worst thing is that the police raids on Bill's 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.960 house and business, which put his face on the TV 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:01.000 and the front page of the papers, were launched before 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:05.800 the cops properly checked Bill's alibi for the morning William 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:11.480 was reported missing, meaning no one confirmed if Bill actually 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:15.199 was where he said he was in this statement he 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:17.240 gave detectives. 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.360 On Friday, the twll Fortember two thousand and fourty I'll 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:21.800 dropped the boys to the bus stop and went back home. 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.600 That was in the early morning before school. The last 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:29.000 known photograph of William Tyrell was taken at nine thirty 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:34.639 seven am at nine forty four. Bill's bank records show 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.200 he bought coffees to him and Margaret at a cafe 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:42.000 in Lorryton, a town a short drive from where William 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:42.560 was staying. 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:45.680 Hunger and I went to the school, assuming at Laura 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:48.200 and Published School. This would have been about ten am 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.399 and finished at about twelve thirty PM. I spoke with 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.240 some of the parents that were there and also spoke 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:56.440 to the precibol and one of their teachers. 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:00.200 After the school assembly, Bill says he went to his offic. 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:04.040 Which is located a ball Street Lord So I finished 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:06.240 up of the office cycle pick up the kids from 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:09.560 school at three thirty. I had no dealings with the 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.400 female foster care as mother family on that day. In fact, 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:15.919 I had no contact with them from the night of 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.560 the fifteenth September twenty fourteen. 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:24.120 If Bill's alibi checked out, it was physically pretty much 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:28.119 impossible for him to be involved in what happened to William. 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:32.800 They also had my written diary which they had photographed 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:37.080 and photo cobbied, and in it was quite I had 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:42.480 appointments written, and I had appointments which were moved around 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:47.080 so that I could attend the assembly on the twelfth 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:47.840 of September. 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:50.280 Did you trust the police at that point. 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:54.280 I did at first because a little boy went missing 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.440 and I knew they had to look for. 0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:58.200 This little fellow. 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:03.320 Do you trust them now? No, say that with a smile. 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:09.480 I'm guessing you weren't always smiling about it. Do you 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:10.000 trust them? 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:17.000 Trust them? I had not one way or the other. 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:23.240 I was just confusers to the what they're up to. 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:28.600 Bill wasn't the only person wondering what the police were 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:32.920 up to at this point. It's worth saying these decisions 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:37.080 who to target and how in major cases don't get 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:41.560 decided by any one detective. They reported up and signed 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:46.080 off by senior police commanders. But the detective running the 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:51.280 investigation into William's disappearance was hands rup Well. 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.360 I think that someone grabbed him off the straight, bundled 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:56.679 him into a car and he just disappeared. 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:01.520 And at least one person inside the police force was 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:06.440 starting to question what Hans was doing. That person was 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:11.600 another detective. Introduce yourself. Tell me who you are. 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:18.679 Gary Jubland, retired detective now working in the media. 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:21.440 But who were you before you retired? 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:26.680 I was a police officer for thirty four years, specializing 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:28.040 as a homicide detective. 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:29.120 That was my passion. 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:30.280 That was my drive. 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:34.120 At the time, Hans is planning the raid on Bill Spedding. 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:38.359 He's only a few weeks off retirement. Gary is due 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:42.760 to take the case over. When he hears about the planned raid, 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:45.000 Gary tries to stop it. 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:48.399 I had concerns before I took it over because the 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:51.000 whole focus of the investigation that that stage was on 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:54.679 Bill Spending. They were going to execute the search warrant 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:58.159 on his place, and once the search warrants executed that 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:01.320 he would know that we were looking at him. I 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:03.840 spoke to senior police and said, could we put a 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:09.320 hold on that and stop that occurring? And I suppose 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:11.320 I'm over stepping the mark to a degree because I 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:12.720 wasn't in charge of the job. 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:13.359 At that time. 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:16.399 I was putting a place firmly, put him a place 0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:19.959 and told, don't you worry about it now. When you 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:21.640 take it over, you can then run it the way 0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:22.399 you want to run it. 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:26.240 So you tried to stop the search warrant being executed? Yes, why? 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:29.920 Because I didn't believe all the stuff that needed to 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:31.960 be done. I wanted to approach it a little bit differently, 0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:35.159 not so overtly. I wanted to approach it more covertly. 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:37.720 Once you've executed the search warrant, you put your hand 0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:41.479 up and said, basically, we think you're the suspect for it. 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:43.919 I didn't want it to go down that path. 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:48.080 Gary called up his boss, the homicide squad commander. 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:51.120 I said, can we find Mick Willing who was at home? 0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:52.040 And then your leave. 0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:54.600 He was a boss and I explained it to him, 0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:58.080 and I was basically told words to the effect of tubes, 0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:00.600 just wait till you take it over. 0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:02.399 Let Hands retire in peace. 0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:05.439 And so I just stepped aside and they did the 0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:07.640 did the search warrant on Bill Spenning's place. 0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:12.960 It's not just Gary Jubilin saying this. His version is 0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:16.000 backed up by the person he spoke to, Michael Willing. 0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:18.960 And you were the homicide commander at the time William 0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:20.000 two or went missing. 0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:20.520 That's right. 0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:21.760 Do you remember that happening? 0:24:22.080 --> 0:24:22.320 I do. 0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:24.000