Speaker 1: Okay, a team, it's Patrick, it's Harps, it's no. If
Speaker 1: it's it's a tipless it's a tipless episode. But I
Speaker 1: tell you what, Nonetheless, we will put on our big
Speaker 1: boy pants, Patrick and Soldier on might't we I'm.
Speaker 2: Not wearing any pants.
Speaker 1: Well are you just? Are you free balling or what
Speaker 1: are you doing? D I really don't, I really don't.
Speaker 1: But here is straight off the bat.
Speaker 2: Straight off the bat, it doesn't take to hit the
Speaker 2: kind of belw the belt. Literally, it certainly doesn't if
Speaker 2: you were wearing a belt. I always wear a belt.
Speaker 1: Well, I wear a belt on the cargoes because one
Speaker 1: of the problems with having huge legs and are not
Speaker 1: so huge waist is that you've always got to have
Speaker 1: pants are a little bit looser in the waist unless
Speaker 1: you take your cargo shorts to the lady slash man
Speaker 1: who fixes all that stuff. But I can't be bothered.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how personal I should get with our conversation,
Speaker 2: and it's kind of a serious personal thing. My family
Speaker 2: doesn't listen to this, so I know we've spoken about this,
Speaker 2: but never on air. We're having family issues where I'm
Speaker 2: looking after my younger disabled brother every weekend and then
Speaker 2: coming up November it'll be for three days every weekend
Speaker 2: and it's great and it's good spending time with him
Speaker 2: because we haven't really done a lot of that. But
Speaker 2: Jason's very short and he has an unusual body shape.
Speaker 2: He's got a bit of a belly, but he's got
Speaker 2: zero ass, so he's got to wear races. And I've
Speaker 2: been spending my time and he's great. He loves trains,
Speaker 2: so he took a train trip the last time he
Speaker 2: was here, just a Ballarat and back. He had the
Speaker 2: best time and the conductor was amazing. It's great. I
Speaker 2: think conductors on those vline trains they're so considerate. They're
Speaker 2: just wonderful to speak to. But one of the biggest challenges,
Speaker 2: and I know if anybody out there has been a
Speaker 2: care for an elderly parent or someone, the biggest challenges
Speaker 2: is using the bathroom and being a bad shot.
Speaker 3: And I can imagine on a moving Oh it's not
Speaker 3: on the train, this is even station, right, Okay, Okay.
Speaker 2: My sister in law has been so good because they've
Speaker 2: taken in my brother who can't live with my dad anymore,
Speaker 2: at the retirement village and so she's been amazing. She's
Speaker 2: washing his clothes every day and doing stuff for him,
Speaker 2: and so what they are doing is probably ten times
Speaker 2: harder than what I'm doing. But you do have to
Speaker 2: clean the bathroom every time he goes, and so I've
Speaker 2: been trying to convince him to sit down to go.
Speaker 2: But the problem is, because of his unfortunate body shape,
Speaker 2: is he has to wear braces to keep his pants
Speaker 2: up right. So have you got braces, Craig, Yes, yes,
Speaker 2: I can imagine the problem with braces is they're not
Speaker 2: practical in an emergency situation. No, no, yeah, but he's
Speaker 2: the dar. He's really been trying hard enough, kind of
Speaker 2: said to him, Look, when you're living at my place,
Speaker 2: maybe we can get you to sit down when you
Speaker 2: go to the toilet. Oh no, no, no, Dad says,
Speaker 2: I have to stand up. Yeah I know that, but
Speaker 2: when you're at my place, maybe you can sit down.
Speaker 2: So it's taken a few months and now he's I'm
Speaker 2: with dad.
Speaker 1: I'm with Dad. Don't you dare? After? How old is
Speaker 1: he fifty?
Speaker 2: He's fifty two.
Speaker 1: After fifty two years of standing, let him fucking stand.
Speaker 1: Don't try and reinvent the wheel, just because you're worried
Speaker 1: about a bit of we on your floor.
Speaker 2: It's not.
Speaker 1: Okay the walls, the floor, it's not just about you
Speaker 1: and you. He're home beautiful.
Speaker 2: But you know it's funny, isn't it? How simple requirements?
Speaker 2: You know, we've been watching train trips on v line,
Speaker 2: just on the TV on the big screen. I'm going
Speaker 2: to fill right TV. So we just plug in the
Speaker 2: laptop and we watch trips from Melbourne to Bendigo and
Speaker 2: Melbourne to Ballarat and it just you know, I shouldn't
Speaker 2: say nerdy people. I'm a nerd, but those train spotters
Speaker 2: they just get a camera and they just record the
Speaker 2: whole trip something that hour of footage and he loves it.
Speaker 2: It's been really good.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a show on is it SBS? Maybe
Speaker 1: this is what you're talking about, but there's a show
Speaker 1: I think it's on SBS, and they literally do. They
Speaker 1: have these like three hour docos which are silent. There's
Speaker 1: no commentary. It's just the sounds of the train or
Speaker 1: the ship or the whatever. But I think, is it
Speaker 1: the gan that goes across.
Speaker 2: He's desperate for me to take him on the gang.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I watched one and it's just like it
Speaker 1: just obviously it's days and days of footage kind of
Speaker 1: condensed and edited into this beautiful kind of three hour
Speaker 1: but you would think. I remember turning it on and
Speaker 1: thinking what is this? Then I had to look it
Speaker 1: up and it's like it's a three hour silent doco
Speaker 1: of Miko the fuck would watch this? And then an
Speaker 1: hour later I'm still watching it. Transfixed train trips.
Speaker 2: I did a train trip my last trip to Canada
Speaker 2: through the Canadian Rockies, and I was on the train
Speaker 2: for three days and I'm going to tell you, no
Speaker 2: Internet amazing views of the just the the stunning, the
Speaker 2: beautiful Canadian wild wilderness. And it's great. And you go
Speaker 2: to a little reading car or a dining car, you
Speaker 2: go to the bar and sit there and they have
Speaker 2: these perspect perspects viewing roofs in something where you can
Speaker 2: sit back watch the sky go past. It is and
Speaker 2: there's something about train travel that is meditative that that
Speaker 2: kind of and and I love sleeping on the train
Speaker 2: as well, you know, so if you if you can
Speaker 2: get a little cabin and mine was tiny. It was
Speaker 2: a fold down bed and had a little toy and
Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff and it was just great
Speaker 2: if you look for specials and you know, because they
Speaker 2: can be quite expensive. But I just kind of jumped
Speaker 2: online and found some deals and had a great time.
Speaker 1: Can I ask, what's your brother's name again?
Speaker 2: Jason?
Speaker 1: How old is Jason? Intellectually?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: What's his kind of functional? IQ? Kind? Not IQ? But
Speaker 1: you know he's age five or six? Yeah? Okay, So
Speaker 1: I have a cute story. So last night I did
Speaker 1: a gig for the eighty nine point nine Light FM,
Speaker 1: Melbourne's Positive alternative. They were running two big, two big
Speaker 1: mental health events. One one last night. Hundreds I don't know,
Speaker 1: five or six hundred people won the night before, six
Speaker 1: or seven hundred. I spoke at both events. Anyway, last night,
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I had the best night, right I was.
Speaker 1: I was talking at quarter to nine and I was
Speaker 1: up yesterday at five. So I was driving there thinking,
Speaker 1: I don't know how I'm going to do this. I'm
Speaker 1: probably going to be rubbish. Fortunately, when I got to
Speaker 1: to the place, they had a cafe in the boyer
Speaker 1: and I got some caffeine on board, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm started to perk up. Anyway, two people spoke before
Speaker 1: me doctor Jody Richardson and doctor Ken I forget his surname,
Speaker 1: but brilliant. Anyway, I'm on last, and I get up
Speaker 1: and I start tom gunn Okay, I'm riffing, you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm a bit. The other two are very very
Speaker 1: professional and slide show and very grown up, and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm like the dog with three dicks up there in
Speaker 1: the flannel shirt and the jeans and like different, not
Speaker 1: better or not worse, just different energy and different vibe
Speaker 1: and having fun. And then I'm about three minutes in
Speaker 1: and this young lady who I don't know how old
Speaker 1: she is, but I would say sixteen to eight en,
Speaker 1: but I could be totally wrong on that, just starts
Speaker 1: laughing hysterically at my not particularly funny joke, like really loud.
Speaker 1: And then and then you're like, yeah, and clearly a
Speaker 1: young girl with a disability sitting next to her mum.
Speaker 1: And she was awesome, right, And then I was talking
Speaker 1: about a few minutes later or I don't know, and
Speaker 1: she kept yelling out and so I just went with
Speaker 1: it and I would say something mildly funny and she
Speaker 1: would crack up hysterically, and I'm like, what's your name,
Speaker 1: and she goes mal like, I'm Mel, can you come
Speaker 1: to all of my events because you're amazing. I've got
Speaker 1: a gig with some old stuffy corporates next Monday. Are
Speaker 1: you available? You know, I'd love you, you know. So
Speaker 1: there was this whole banter, right, and then then I
Speaker 1: was telling the story about Jumbo, the fat kid at
Speaker 1: the swimming sports. Then she goes Jumbo and then she
Speaker 1: starts screaming out, hey, he jumpbo all through my thing, right,
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And so I was up there with
Speaker 1: like six hundred or five hundred people and Mel screaming
Speaker 1: in the front, and she was just awesome. She was
Speaker 1: such a good kid and such good energy, and it
Speaker 1: could have potentially derailed everything, but it actually made it better.
Speaker 1: And I finished and her mom came up with her
Speaker 1: and we all took a photo together, and her mom
Speaker 1: was like, thank you. So I'm like, she is. I
Speaker 1: genuinely mean, she's fantastic.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like when imagine not caring that much, in fact,
Speaker 1: not even knowing that not that she should be embarrassed
Speaker 1: or not that she should be awkward, but just not
Speaker 1: that's not even a thought. So free and so liberated
Speaker 1: and she had the best time. I had the best time,
Speaker 1: and the audience loved it as well. You know, it
Speaker 1: could have been a clunky experience, but it just turned
Speaker 1: out great. I loved it.
Speaker 2: I think people who have special needs really can teach
Speaker 2: us a lot, and it may be different things. You know,
Speaker 2: the people who formerly owned my house, I've kept in
Speaker 2: contact with beautiful people. And the husband is blind and
Speaker 2: he taught me so much about the world when you
Speaker 2: are devoid of one sense. Now he's a petrol head.
Speaker 2: He loves car racing, loves cars, and just having conversations
Speaker 2: with David is so much fun because it makes you
Speaker 2: think about how you can interact with someone with a
Speaker 2: disability when it even comes to simple things like you know,
Speaker 2: I saw this yesterday. Well he can't, you know, he's
Speaker 2: very used to this, and he's a really smart guy.
Speaker 2: But I love looking through the world through his ears
Speaker 2: and through interactions and through sense and touch and making
Speaker 2: sure that I'm really descriptive when I talk to him,
Speaker 2: and that I'm really mindful and respectful of where he
Speaker 2: or how he takes in the world. And I love that.
Speaker 2: And that's the same with my brother. You know, the
Speaker 2: simple enjoyment of just getting on a train and there
Speaker 2: and watching the countryside speed past and going up to Ballarat,
Speaker 2: and then we hung around in the cafe and had
Speaker 2: a dream can then wait for the train to turn
Speaker 2: around and come back again, and then we jump back
Speaker 2: on the train again and came home. But it was
Speaker 2: a lot of fun. And again, those simple things that
Speaker 2: we sometimes don't think about or take for granted, sometimes
Speaker 2: through the eyes of somebody else, can make us really
Speaker 2: reevaluate what is important or the things that the little
Speaker 2: things in life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that one hundredsent agree. And also that's very smart
Speaker 1: of you, Like, that's very naturally socially and emotionally intelligent
Speaker 1: of you, Like trying to understand the world through someone
Speaker 1: else's perception or through someone else's window experiences. You know,
Speaker 1: like you can't see, but you're trying to see in
Speaker 1: inverted commas what he sees in inverted commas, and that,
Speaker 1: you know, in psych that's called theory of mind. Is
Speaker 1: trying to understand how someone else perceives things, or how
Speaker 1: someone else thinks, or how someone else sees the world
Speaker 1: or sees the situation or see the conversation. In other words,
Speaker 1: trying to put yourself in their psychological and or emotional experience,
Speaker 1: and that a lot of people are terrible at that,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people don't think about that. So,
Speaker 1: you know, realizing what you're doing in real time is
Speaker 1: that you and him might be in the same conversation
Speaker 1: but clearly not the same experience, or you might be
Speaker 1: in the same situation or circumstance or environment, but just
Speaker 1: understanding that, you know, the way that you need to
Speaker 1: connect with him and understand him and communicate with him
Speaker 1: is very him specific, you know, versus talking to somebody
Speaker 1: who who has vision. But that's yeah, that's very high
Speaker 1: order kind of social intelligence that you naturally do. So
Speaker 1: well done.
Speaker 2: You thanks mate. You know I went to the twenty
Speaker 2: first birthday of one of his sons recently, who jumps
Speaker 2: online as part of our online gaming group, and you know,
Speaker 2: I was there the lunch. It was insteat of winery,
Speaker 2: and you know, because I've known the family for years,
Speaker 2: it's really great, you know, they were you know, when
Speaker 2: you buy a house, sometimes the real estate agent leaves
Speaker 2: a bottle of champagne or something. Well, that doesn't happen
Speaker 2: very often, but the family who were vacating the house
Speaker 2: left a gift pack for me, like with brochures on
Speaker 2: things to do, you know, champagne flutes and bottle of
Speaker 2: champagne and chocolates and coffee sachets and you know, and
Speaker 2: come and you know, make sure you come and have
Speaker 2: dinner with us once you've got settled in. Just amazing people,
Speaker 2: which is back up a friendship, and we've become good friends.
Speaker 2: The only thing that really Alex, who is there son
Speaker 2: who turned twenty one, has got to stop saying to
Speaker 2: people that Patrick sleeps in my bedroom because it's his
Speaker 2: old room is my room. And it's like, ah, nah,
Speaker 2: just really uncomfortable with that.
Speaker 1: Ah, just let him go. How old is twenty one?
Speaker 2: He does it deliberately, of course, to take the piss
Speaker 2: and knows that I find it really creepy. He says that.
Speaker 2: But what I was getting at is when we're at
Speaker 2: the twenty first now his younger brother is seventeen, and
Speaker 2: you know what's about their family. His father needed to
Speaker 2: go to the toilet, and so his youngest son just
Speaker 2: got up and said, yeah, come on, dad, let's go.
Speaker 2: How many seventeen year old boys would feel comfortable taking
Speaker 2: their father to the toilet.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, that's a good question, but I guess
Speaker 1: that's really because you've just grown up around that, right.
Speaker 2: That's just what has that taught them about being people
Speaker 2: who are considerate young people who are considerate of people
Speaker 2: around them. And how much better a person has that
Speaker 2: made them understanding that they need to contribute to the
Speaker 2: family and that they can feel comfortable in themselves to
Speaker 2: be a part of that dynamic. I think it's made
Speaker 2: them much more rounded people. I think it's lovely to
Speaker 2: see people who don't have reservations about being caring about
Speaker 2: a parent who has a disability.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I think I
Speaker 1: think being around, whether or not it's growing up around
Speaker 1: or being around or having friends with disabilities. And you know,
Speaker 1: as you know, I've been working with Johnny in the
Speaker 1: gym for the last six years, who's got a spinal
Speaker 1: cord injury, and he started training in a wheelchair and
Speaker 1: then eventually to a frame and now he's walking with
Speaker 1: a stick. But you know, it's an undertaking for him
Speaker 1: to walk twenty feet, you know, And so I mean
Speaker 1: he can, but it just it takes him ten times
Speaker 1: longer than it would take you to walk twenty feet,
Speaker 1: and so I'm often walking around the gym with him
Speaker 1: and I'm helping him, and I'm either holding his hand
Speaker 1: or holding his arm or kind of lifting him half
Speaker 1: lifting him up and down off a bench. And I
Speaker 1: don't even think about it when I'm not saying a
Speaker 1: great bloke. I'm saying, it's just a byproduct of being
Speaker 1: around someone. And sometimes I'll be through the gym where
Speaker 1: I'm helping him from one bench to another exercise, and
Speaker 1: here's these two you know, old blokes, and one of
Speaker 1: them's holding the other bloke's hand, and I don't even
Speaker 1: I'm not aware of it until I see a seventeen
Speaker 1: year old staring at me, like what the fuck are
Speaker 1: they doing? You know, it's like, no, well it's okay, mate,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like and there's no, it's just
Speaker 1: not a typical thing. But then you don't because it's
Speaker 1: so automatic now because I've trained him probably thousands of times,
Speaker 1: where it's just you know, like, you know, I'm constantly
Speaker 1: and the crab is the same. Mark's amazing as well,
Speaker 1: my training partner and everyone. It's like you're just naturally
Speaker 1: doing these things without drawing attention to it or without
Speaker 1: overthinking it. But I definitely think you know, and it's
Speaker 1: beautiful the relationship you've got with your brother mate, and
Speaker 1: it's and your friend who's you know, doesn't have sight.
Speaker 1: I think for us as humans, it's I'm very at
Speaker 1: the risk of sounding naf and lame, and you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know trite. I'm very grateful for all of
Speaker 1: the interactions I have with people whose life and situation
Speaker 1: is tougher than mine, because I think I could be
Speaker 1: a pain in the ass unless I had that gratitude
Speaker 1: and that awareness that I'm very, very lucky and very
Speaker 1: privileged to have what I have. And I don't just
Speaker 1: mean things, I mean physically, mentally and emotionally, you know,
Speaker 1: to be able to as we've spoken about before, but
Speaker 1: to be able to get out of a chair and
Speaker 1: go and turn on a tap and there's cold water,
Speaker 1: and push a button and there's some heat, and open
Speaker 1: a door and there's food inside that door. And then
Speaker 1: you know, it's like we live in especially you and
Speaker 1: me anyway, and privileged Australia. Not that everyone's privileged in Australia,
Speaker 1: but a lot of us, you know, we've got a pretty.
Speaker 2: Good Yeah, very very very much, so very much.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 2: Hey, I know we generally talk about tech stuff, and
Speaker 2: I think when you asked me to do the potty
Speaker 2: a little bit earlier than usual, I said, I've got
Speaker 2: much together. But you know what, I did, throw some
Speaker 2: stuff together for us.
Speaker 1: All Right, I'm ready. Let's let's let's get out of
Speaker 1: human behavior and into technology. I've got no notes in
Speaker 1: front of me, so you need to be the host
Speaker 1: for the next half hour. You need to host.
Speaker 2: All right, it sounds good. I found this fascinating. Google,
Speaker 2: with all the data processing due to AI, is now
Speaker 2: put an order in to buy nuclear power like so
Speaker 2: they need more power for their data centers. This is
Speaker 2: a world's first deal. It was an article that was
Speaker 2: in the Guardian newspaper yesterday or the day before. So
Speaker 2: they've ordered six or seven small nuclear reactors from a
Speaker 2: Californian power supplier and they need it to power all
Speaker 2: the data processing, the staggering amount of data that's getting
Speaker 2: processed now due to AI. Because every time you do
Speaker 2: an AI search as opposed to a normal Google search,
Speaker 2: you're exponentially doing needing a data center that can do
Speaker 2: a lot more processing power. So these AI data centers
Speaker 2: are running twenty four to seven. They're absolutely going off
Speaker 2: tap at the moment. And it's exponential in terms of
Speaker 2: the growth as well, because what's happening is more and
Speaker 2: more companies are getting onto the AI bandwagon, and as
Speaker 2: a consequence, they're needing bigger, more processing power, and that,
Speaker 2: as a consequence means not just power, but water as
Speaker 2: well cooling systems. So they use water and they use
Speaker 2: a lot of electricity. And we're talking a shit ton.
Speaker 2: That's a technical term, by the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, I've just wrote that down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's actually a tangible figure.
Speaker 1: Is it a megawatch shit tone?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well probably Gigawa shit tone?
Speaker 1: How many? How many killer wat's per megawatch ship tone?
Speaker 1: I don't know, just I'm just trying to get the
Speaker 1: metrics right. I'm just taking professor. Now, can I just
Speaker 1: ask a question when you said they've ordered seven nuclear reactors,
Speaker 1: I don't exactly know what that means. What do you
Speaker 1: mean they're buying their own fucking dedicated nuclear energy? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I know, but what is that?
Speaker 1: What's a nuclear reactor? Does that create nuclear energy?
Speaker 2: Well, it uses nuclear I mean effectively, it uses nuclear
Speaker 2: power or nuclear the you know you're harnessing the atom.
Speaker 2: It's a nuclear power plant that generates life.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the fuck it's what I'm not physics.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I can't only tell you about humans.
Speaker 2: Well, in the nuclear power plant plant process, what they
Speaker 2: do is they split the atom that creates energy, and
Speaker 2: then they use that energy to hit water, and water
Speaker 2: spins a turbine, and a turbine then generates electricity. That
Speaker 2: I think that's the rudimentary and.
Speaker 1: Hell, by the way, everyone, do not listen to us
Speaker 1: to I'm the biggest stickhead, but maybe don't listen to
Speaker 1: him either, because that could be all bullshit.
Speaker 2: Google, if Tip was here, should be googling this right now.
Speaker 1: That's okay, that's all right. So there, so you're doing it,
Speaker 1: are you?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: All right, here we go explain. You just go into
Speaker 1: chatters chat GPT and say, simply.
Speaker 2: Explain comes from nuclear fission. Nuclear power reactors use heat
Speaker 2: produced during atomic fission to boil water produce pressurized steam.
Speaker 2: Steam is routed through the reactor steam system to spin
Speaker 2: a large turbine blade drives mechnetic generators to produce electricity.
Speaker 1: Exactly what I just said. The fucking nothing like what
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 2: Come on, come on, all right, So all.
Speaker 1: Right, the bottom line is Google are going nuclear. I
Speaker 1: worry about with the exponential kind of acceleration of all
Speaker 1: things tech, there's also an exponential expanse of requirement for
Speaker 1: more and more power. As you've already said, you know,
Speaker 1: I wonder when we get to that point of you know,
Speaker 1: energy extinction, like the can't be.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not infinite now were the worrying is
Speaker 2: at the moment that at presently there's more demand on
Speaker 2: cold fire generating of power because what I mean here
Speaker 2: in Australia we don't have there's only one nuclear reactor
Speaker 2: and it's used for medical purposes, but of it is
Speaker 2: there's a lot more pressure, so it's putting pressure across
Speaker 2: the entire system. In the United States, they're turning to
Speaker 2: nuclear because obviously for them, it's a cleaner alternative. And
Speaker 2: I know people there's a lot of arguments for and
Speaker 2: against nuclear power plants. They've been around for a long
Speaker 2: time and so a good example is the fact that Westinghouse,
Speaker 2: the company that may have made your fridge, also makes
Speaker 2: the e Vincy. Now the e Vinchy is a micro
Speaker 2: nuclear reactor and they're being built and they claim to
Speaker 2: be able to deliver five megawatts of power up to
Speaker 2: one hundred months, So that's eight years of power, right,
Speaker 2: That's a staggering amount of power to be able to
Speaker 2: And these are specifically being designed for lots of different purposes.
Speaker 2: They're even talking about sending one of these to the Moon,
Speaker 2: so potentially lunar missions could use these micro nuclear reactors.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of research being done specifically to
Speaker 2: combat the issue of this demand on power.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, I mean, I'm I'm not even close
Speaker 1: to an expert in any of this stuff, of course,
Speaker 1: I'm just a bloke listening to someone who knows slightly
Speaker 1: more than me, I say, fucking slightly. But to me
Speaker 1: it would seem that move I mean an obvious statement.
Speaker 1: But you know, energy moving forward is just not just
Speaker 1: energy for electricity and day to day operation, but energy
Speaker 1: for humans in terms of the quality of energy, calories, food,
Speaker 1: micro and macro nutrients. So energy to make you know,
Speaker 1: computers and cars and organizations work, but also energy to
Speaker 1: make humans work. I think there's a kind of a
Speaker 1: dual kind of energetic issue that's looming.
Speaker 2: Well, it's already here, I guess you know how my
Speaker 2: brain works, which is a bit confusing for anybody listening
Speaker 2: to our podcast, but a litt alone for me who
Speaker 2: has to cope with it on a day to day basis.
Speaker 2: But yes, to go through my mind sometimes. When I
Speaker 2: was hiking this morning, I went to a place called
Speaker 2: Bosstoc Reservoir, so I probably not very far, maybe went
Speaker 2: about five kilometers this morning. Out in the bush, Fritz
Speaker 2: saw a wallaby and chase the wallaby, but he didn't
Speaker 2: get close to because there's no way a miniature now
Speaker 2: is going to catch a wallaby, and he wouldn't want
Speaker 2: to do anyway, but.
Speaker 1: If he did, the wallaby would kick the fuck out
Speaker 1: of him.
Speaker 2: But okay, yeah, but you know what fascinates me about
Speaker 2: You were talking about the biomechanics, and I'm pretty good
Speaker 2: with my feeding of Fritz. He gets usually a half
Speaker 2: a cup of food or a cup of dry food
Speaker 2: and then something else, so I supplement it with bits
Speaker 2: and pieces and a few vegetables and things. But what
Speaker 2: blows my mind is he gets fed once a day
Speaker 2: and maybe gets a treat after the walk. How the
Speaker 2: hell is he able to run in the bush? Probably
Speaker 2: four or five times the distance that I do. He
Speaker 2: does all the things that he does. He's so active.
Speaker 2: We do the zuomies, we throw toys. The fact that
Speaker 2: that machine, that biological machine, can do so much with
Speaker 2: main feed a day blows my mind.
Speaker 1: Well, they're very metabolically efficient. But also, I mean, you
Speaker 1: weigh probably twenty to thirty times what he weighs. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: so you think, what does he wait? Five ks?
Speaker 2: No, he's about eight eight and a half.
Speaker 1: Okay, and what are you about? Sixty five sixty eight? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you're about six and a half times his weight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you put if you figured out his calories and
Speaker 1: times by six and a half, it's probably about the same.
Speaker 1: But you don't do zoomies and you don't chase wallabies.
Speaker 1: So you do make a good point. But I mean,
Speaker 1: the beauty of dogs is I mean, well, I was
Speaker 1: going to say dogs don't eat junk food, but that's
Speaker 1: not true depending on the owner. By the way, owners
Speaker 1: who feed their dogs junk fuck. It makes me mad,
Speaker 1: Like when you see dogs that are just morbidly obese
Speaker 1: because their owners literally make them fat by fucking makes
Speaker 1: me mad because you don't see that. You don't see
Speaker 1: that with any other animals except animals who are genetically
Speaker 1: required to be fat for survival. But anyway, no, he
Speaker 1: doesn't need that much food. That's the point. But also
Speaker 1: I feel like dogs miss out because you know how
Speaker 1: we get so much pleasure from food.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know what, they get so much pleasure
Speaker 2: from being off lead, running around, exploring, sniffing. They smell everything.
Speaker 2: It's like social media. They love it. They pee on things,
Speaker 2: they smell other dogs pee, They sniff bums. They do
Speaker 2: so many fun.
Speaker 1: Things, letting them go different ways. So hang on, tiff,
Speaker 1: can you make that a real please? They sniff bums.
Speaker 1: They do so many fun things. Let's just capture that,
Speaker 1: will we They sniff bums, They do so many fun things.
Speaker 1: They smell pee. The fuck is wrong with you? What
Speaker 1: makes you think any of that compares to a pizza
Speaker 1: or fucking cheesecake? Like, oh, yeah, sure, sure, they're diets boring,
Speaker 1: but they get to sniff asses and we oh wow,
Speaker 1: that fuck you sold me. I'm changing. I'm going to
Speaker 1: become a greyhound. Oh, I am.
Speaker 2: Putting myself in the realm of the dog because I'm
Speaker 2: trying to look at it from a dog's perspective.
Speaker 1: Are you using theory of mind with canine's Canine Theory
Speaker 1: of Mind with Patrick? Welcome back to today's episode Through
Speaker 1: the Eyes of a Dog. I'm Patricks.
Speaker 2: Someone told me that today that dogs aren't self aware.
Speaker 2: So elephants are.
Speaker 1: Are?
Speaker 2: Some animals are. But if a dog looks at a mirror,
Speaker 2: it doesn't see itself, it just sees another dog.
Speaker 4: Is that's true?
Speaker 1: It's I think dogs are. That is a very good question,
Speaker 1: and if I'm being totally honest, I don't know the answer.
Speaker 1: But that makes sense to me. But I think that
Speaker 1: they look at you googling. I think that they are
Speaker 1: definitely aware of other people's needs and emotions, and I
Speaker 1: think they are especially with dogs that are very very
Speaker 1: bonded with their human I was going to say owner.
Speaker 1: I hate the word owner.
Speaker 2: I don't use it. I don't use the word owner.
Speaker 1: I think they're human, they're person and yep, their dad,
Speaker 1: their mum, there, whatever. I think they are very attuned
Speaker 1: to the needs and emotions and even mental states of
Speaker 1: they're human. But self awareness is a slippery slope in general.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't surprise me that.
Speaker 2: But then, how do you know, well, like looked at
Speaker 2: two articles, one from the Smithsonian magazine that says dogs
Speaker 2: may be more self aware than experts thought, and then
Speaker 2: the second one is from an article on the website
Speaker 2: earth dot com, and it says that although dogs can't
Speaker 2: identify themselves in the mirror, they still have some levels
Speaker 2: of self awareness. They ace other self recognition tests, They
Speaker 2: can recognize their own odor, and they can recall memories
Speaker 2: of specific events. So there you go.
Speaker 1: Should we ask Chap GPT go for it? All right? On?
Speaker 2: Yep?
Speaker 1: On are dogs self aware?
Speaker 4: Dogs have a level of self awareness, but it's not
Speaker 4: quite like human self awareness. They show signs of understanding
Speaker 4: their own bodies and movements, and they can recognize their
Speaker 4: own scent. However, in tests like the mirror test, which
Speaker 4: measures self recognition, dogs generally don't recognize themselves. They might
Speaker 4: see their reflection as another dog or just ignore it.
Speaker 4: So while they have some degree of self awareness, it's
Speaker 4: more limited compared to humans.
Speaker 1: Thanks shatters here you get well, yeah, I think also,
Speaker 1: And also you got to remember, even with chat JPT,
Speaker 1: they're just drawing on whatever's on the Internet that they
Speaker 1: access at the time.
Speaker 4: Too.
Speaker 1: But interesting, all right, what else you got for US
Speaker 1: tech boy.
Speaker 2: While we're talking about AI and we know it's a
Speaker 2: billion dollar industry. Now here's an article that I read
Speaker 2: recently that actually frightened me a little bit in terms
Speaker 2: of what it means in the implications. So this article
Speaker 2: was in published on the Conversation and it's stated that
Speaker 2: that AI is being underpinned by an exploited workforce. So
Speaker 2: what does that actually mean? There are you know, we
Speaker 2: think about people working putting garments together and working in sweatshops.
Speaker 2: There's one part of AI we don't think about, and
Speaker 2: it's data labeling. So data comes in and a human
Speaker 2: operator has to label that data to explain what it is.
Speaker 2: So if it's a picture of Craig, it's said handsome,
Speaker 2: middle aged man, big guns. You know, it's got to
Speaker 2: come up with something, right. But the interesting thing is that,
Speaker 2: you know, with the AI industry expected to be worth
Speaker 2: about four hundred and seven billion US dollars by twenty
Speaker 2: twenty seven, right, that's not a long way away. The
Speaker 2: problem is that there's up to one hundred data labelers
Speaker 2: for each AI and all these AI workers are in
Speaker 2: places like Kenya and they work for these companies like Facebook,
Speaker 2: SCALEAI Open AI all that sort of stuff. And the
Speaker 2: thing is that they're on really crap conditions and wages.
Speaker 2: So data abeling, So this is the basically you take
Speaker 2: the raw data, images, video, text, and then you say
Speaker 2: to AI, this is what you are seeing, this is
Speaker 2: what you are hearing, so that AI can understand what
Speaker 2: it is and whether it's self driving cars, smart devices, chat, GPT,
Speaker 2: all that stuff has to be labeled because AI thrives
Speaker 2: on data and these data models that they have to
Speaker 2: keep updating. So for AI to continue to be as
Speaker 2: smart as it is, you've got to keep updating it.
Speaker 2: So these data sets need to be updated and refreshed regularly.
Speaker 2: They cannot work without them. So tech giants so Meta, Google, OpenAI, Microsoft,
Speaker 2: They outsource all of this stuff to the Filmilippines, Kenya, India, Pakistan, Venezuela,
Speaker 2: Colombia and now China of course is jumping on the
Speaker 2: bandwagon as well. So this has become an ethical thing
Speaker 2: that I guess we in the Western world, sitting on
Speaker 2: the other end of a phone or a computer or
Speaker 2: a tablet, just don't think about the implications. And look,
Speaker 2: there's moves. I think Joe Biden was looking at some
Speaker 2: sort of international agreement. But the reality of it is,
Speaker 2: I don't know what we can do. I mean, we're
Speaker 2: getting we're using it as we speak, you know, we've
Speaker 2: just within the last ten minutes. So well, it's good
Speaker 2: to be aware of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but also you I mean, wow, I find that
Speaker 1: not hard to believe. But I find that curious that
Speaker 1: you know, on some level there's people sitting in some
Speaker 1: third world country, potentially third world country, looking at images
Speaker 1: and describing that image and that's part of the very
Speaker 1: very very high tech evolved, you know system that we're
Speaker 1: in the middle. How is that happening in twenty twenty four?
Speaker 1: Like and not? Can't AI itself? Hasn't it been trained
Speaker 1: and developed to a point where it can look at
Speaker 1: me and go, you know, middle aged I can white
Speaker 1: bloke with a bad attitude. Can't it do that all
Speaker 1: by itself? Now? No?
Speaker 2: The problem with that is if you're using AI to
Speaker 2: train AI, that's your AI cannibalism. Isn't it.
Speaker 1: Not to train AI? But surely surely it can look
Speaker 1: at pretty much anything now and figure out what it is. Like,
Speaker 1: do we still need people to be going, oh, that's
Speaker 1: a train, that's a yellow train with red wheels.
Speaker 2: People are better at it. People are much better at it.
Speaker 2: We adapt. You know, the reality of it is that
Speaker 2: it's a good thing. That there's an oversight in some ways,
Speaker 2: but at this stage it appears is not. It appears
Speaker 2: that the industry needs this, and when people are being
Speaker 2: paid between say you're in Venezuela, you're being paid between
Speaker 2: ninety cents and two dollars US an hour to do
Speaker 2: this generally mindless work.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I think? I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't think we've ever We've kind of spoken about this,
Speaker 1: but not in any great detail. I think there's a vast,
Speaker 1: vast chasmhole in the in what's happening right now in
Speaker 1: terms of the role out and the I guess the
Speaker 1: overwhelm of technology. You know, we've spoken about my mum
Speaker 1: and dad a bit with tech, and you know that
Speaker 1: now I've taken over the paying of all of their
Speaker 1: bills electronically because mum and dad were freaked out, because
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, the truth is that there are
Speaker 1: even in Australia, there are millions of people who are
Speaker 1: not tech savvy who are constantly having problems with navigating
Speaker 1: world that is very very very different to the one
Speaker 1: twenty years ago. And of course technology brings with it
Speaker 1: great advantages, but it also brings potential or many potential problems.
Speaker 1: What I mean, there's no answer to this, but or
Speaker 1: there's no immediate answer. But being able to create technology
Speaker 1: that is truly user friendly, truly user friendly for people
Speaker 1: who don't understand technology, I mean, I think that's the
Speaker 1: next great bloody opportunity or the great the next great
Speaker 1: problem to be solved, because you know, even for me
Speaker 1: and I use technology all day every day, we're using
Speaker 1: it right now, I've got multiple computers, phones. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm my life, my business, my career is dependent on it.
Speaker 1: And I'm still a complete fucking dummy compared to you,
Speaker 1: and you're a complete dummy compared to someone else. But
Speaker 1: then you take at one level beyond me and you
Speaker 1: go then there are like my mum and dad who
Speaker 1: do not know how to pay a bill unless it's
Speaker 1: with a check or cash. You know, how do we
Speaker 1: look after those people moving forward? Because it seems like
Speaker 1: they're not really being hated.
Speaker 2: For the digital haves and have nots. I guess it's
Speaker 2: probably people maybe fifty up because they didn't grow up
Speaker 2: in a schooling environment with technology. They may have not
Speaker 2: adopted technology because they didn't need it for their job
Speaker 2: if they were in a trade or they did something
Speaker 2: that didn't require them to be on computers. And I mean,
Speaker 2: do you remember when they started rolling out atm machines,
Speaker 2: how lot people just didn't know how to use them
Speaker 2: and struggled with them. And there's still concerns for a
Speaker 2: lot of older people. For me, you asked two kind
Speaker 2: of really pertinent questions there. One is how do we
Speaker 2: support and help the people right now who are in
Speaker 2: that digital divide, who are part of the other side
Speaker 2: of the digital divide? And I guess it's compassion from
Speaker 2: the banking system, from those services, you know, whether you're
Speaker 2: going to my other account and being able to still
Speaker 2: have face to face contact and saying, well, you know,
Speaker 2: the reality of it is, if someone's over the age
Speaker 2: of sixty or seventy, they may still need to walk
Speaker 2: into a bank and sit down and talk to their
Speaker 2: bank teller, their bank manager, and we need to not
Speaker 2: force them onto technology because maybe beyond them, we need
Speaker 2: to understand that some people a they may not be willing,
Speaker 2: but be they may be frightened. They may have many
Speaker 2: reasons for being part of the digital divide. So I think,
Speaker 2: first of all, as a society, we need to be
Speaker 2: more compassionate to those people and not force them to
Speaker 2: do something. COVID forced a little of people to work
Speaker 2: out what a Q code was, but a lot of
Speaker 2: people stressed over that, so it's difficult for those people.
Speaker 2: But the secondary thing is, and I think the exciting
Speaker 2: thing from the next level up and it won't help
Speaker 2: your parents, but it may help us and people younger
Speaker 2: than us as we get older. Is as technology and
Speaker 2: AIS in implemented, is getting technology that doesn't just have
Speaker 2: a this one way to turn something on and off.
Speaker 2: If you think about it, if you ask different ways,
Speaker 2: you know, you can use different phrases to say the
Speaker 2: same thing to try to get the same results. But
Speaker 2: generally most computers are binary. It's yes or no, it's
Speaker 2: off or on. But with the deployment of things like AI,
Speaker 2: it will make technology easier because you know, I envisited
Speaker 2: a time where we won't be using phones anymore. We'll
Speaker 2: have a pair of our glasses will project the information
Speaker 2: we need hovering in front of us like a heads
Speaker 2: up display. Your car has a heads up display, doesn't
Speaker 2: it your new car?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So it's not obtrusive at all, and in
Speaker 2: fact it helps with the road experience because you're not
Speaker 2: looking down at your speedo. But I could imagine a
Speaker 2: future where I would just say, you know, what's the
Speaker 2: weather going to be today, and tell me that without
Speaker 2: searching for an app, without going going to a Google
Speaker 2: search bar and typing that in. So I think as
Speaker 2: technology becomes more used friendly, then hopefully for us and
Speaker 2: people who's substantly come along, you won't have the barriers.
Speaker 2: We won't have keyboards to worry about. We will have conversations.
Speaker 2: You just had a conversation with chat GPT and that
Speaker 2: was very natural. And the thing about a lot of
Speaker 2: these searches now is they remember what we previously spoke about.
Speaker 2: So if you can think about your experiences of using
Speaker 2: a phone and then putting it all into smart glasses,
Speaker 2: it's hovering there. Quite often. We don't need to look
Speaker 2: at our phone. If you want to call me and
Speaker 2: you say call Patrick Bonello, you don't need to go
Speaker 2: through your contact list. It verifies it's you and then
Speaker 2: the call gets initiated. So for me Hopefully we'll get
Speaker 2: a hybrid of this that will help your parents down
Speaker 2: the track, maybe, you know, if they get more and
Speaker 2: more comfortable, at least with using voice activation. It takes
Speaker 2: screens and keyboards and mice away from people who may
Speaker 2: have problems with it.
Speaker 1: Even my little old car that I get around then,
Speaker 1: which is a five year old Suzuki. It's not that old,
Speaker 1: but you know what I mean, it's and it's just
Speaker 1: really it's a Suzuki Swift that's super basic. There's a
Speaker 1: button on the thing which is like a bloke talking
Speaker 1: or a person talking. I press that and I go
Speaker 1: call Patrick, and the lady goes calling Patrick Bonello, you know,
Speaker 1: and then it rings you. I don't even I know
Speaker 1: where that button is without even looking at the steering wheel.
Speaker 1: I can just watch the road, press that button with
Speaker 1: my thumb and tell my car to call you when
Speaker 1: it does. And I mean that's five or six year
Speaker 1: old technology. But I mean everything you're saying I agree with,
Speaker 1: and I think moving forward it's great. And I'm a
Speaker 1: little bit selfish and I'm a little bit biased with
Speaker 1: this because of my eighty four and five year old parents.
Speaker 1: But like, hands down, at the moment. Hands down, my
Speaker 1: mum's biggest source of anxiety is technology because it's scarce
Speaker 1: a shit out of her and she doesn't know, you know,
Speaker 1: in my mom Like my mum's got an iPhone, she
Speaker 1: literally doesn't know how to use it other than to
Speaker 1: make a call and get a call, you know, and
Speaker 1: even I could, you know, I've tried to teach her
Speaker 1: so many times how to do that. She can she
Speaker 1: can send texts, but even then it's pretty clunky. But
Speaker 1: I will send her a text and she it'll go,
Speaker 1: she'll get it, but she doesn't get it because she
Speaker 1: never thinks to look or that little sign in the
Speaker 1: window or whatever. You know. It's like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I guess there's no answer. But it's like we're so brilliant,
Speaker 1: we're so advanced at solving problems, and we can do
Speaker 1: you know, we can we can do pretty much anything now,
Speaker 1: but we can't create a way for old people who
Speaker 1: aren't technologically minded or trained. It'd be great if we
Speaker 1: could produce something which for them is just as easy
Speaker 1: as talking to a human or having a human interaction.
Speaker 1: Because you think about the percentage of people in Australia
Speaker 1: who are say older than sixty and that's the group
Speaker 1: we're talking about. I don't know what it is, but
Speaker 1: I would guess it would be somewhere in the three
Speaker 1: four million range. I mean, that's a lot of humans,
Speaker 1: and we're not a massive population. Then you think globally,
Speaker 1: you extrapolate that it might be a billion people who
Speaker 1: are sixty year older. You know, that's a big that's
Speaker 1: a big market.
Speaker 2: There are some companies that are servicing that market. I
Speaker 2: was thinking about your mum and the iPhone, and then
Speaker 2: I kind of thought, well, my little brother has a
Speaker 2: phone that doesn't have a screen on it. All it has,
Speaker 2: if you can imagine, you know, it's a bit smaller
Speaker 2: than a standard mobile phone, a bit bigger than card
Speaker 2: and all it has is you pre program. It's got
Speaker 2: a big, chunky name next to it, so it's Patrick,
Speaker 2: it's Dad, it's all the various contacts. I think about
Speaker 2: eight or ten on it, maybe only eight, and you
Speaker 2: just button and it calls them. That's it. All you've
Speaker 2: got is a call and a hang up. Doesn't even
Speaker 2: have a keypad to dial numbers. You just have emergency
Speaker 2: contacts or people you want to speak to, and he
Speaker 2: just press the button, it calls them, and he presses
Speaker 2: the hang up button most of the time to hang up.
Speaker 1: And how does he know who's ringing?
Speaker 2: If someone rings, Oh, I guess that lights up next
Speaker 2: to them.
Speaker 1: I don't know, amen, because I'm just thinking what efforts,
Speaker 1: you know, one of those fucking annoying people trying to
Speaker 1: sell your shit. You don't want to be answering those
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 2: I just realized that the contact details that I've got
Speaker 2: in my phone for his phone is Jason's lego phone.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know. I'll have to try that
Speaker 2: next time. I'm not sure what it does when you
Speaker 2: ring in and how he knows where it's coming from.
Speaker 2: That's a really good question. I need to follow that up.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, oh wow, all right, let's do another one
Speaker 1: or two if you've got anything on your list.
Speaker 2: Well, this is an interesting one. The government's getting really proactive.
Speaker 2: When I say the government, this trading. Government's getting really
Speaker 2: proactive with a first ever standalone Cybersecurity Act. So what
Speaker 2: this means there's two cybersecurity bills that are currently being
Speaker 2: reviewed by a parliamentary committee and what they're looking at
Speaker 2: is a mandatory minimum cyber security standard for smart devices
Speaker 2: because things like speakers, vacuums, doorbells, fridges, all that sort
Speaker 2: of smart connectivity because they're there now. They want to
Speaker 2: have an absolute minimum that that security means. Because there
Speaker 2: was a brand of vacuum cleaners recently that they found
Speaker 2: out that because they have cameras built into them, these
Speaker 2: robo vACC You don't have a robovac, dear, no so,
Speaker 2: but there's been a.
Speaker 1: Bit of stuff in the news about robo vax fucking
Speaker 1: doing like attacking dogs.
Speaker 2: And dog yeah. No, well, in this instance, recording everything
Speaker 2: so they can send to the cloud and they can
Speaker 2: basically look through through the cameras. I mean for your
Speaker 2: own personal security. This is scary to think that your
Speaker 2: own devices could be spying on you. So your robot
Speaker 2: vacuum cleaner has a camera in it, and if you
Speaker 2: think that it's vacuuming around the house and you've got kids,
Speaker 2: and you've got older people, and it could be seeing
Speaker 2: and watching and then recording that information. There was one brand,
Speaker 2: and I can't think of it at the moment. It's
Speaker 2: not one of the big popular ones, but certainly was
Speaker 2: a reasonably popular one. They didn't have protections in place,
Speaker 2: so that data was being captured, including camera footage and
Speaker 2: audio being recorded. So you've got this digital spy that's
Speaker 2: running around your house. So I think it's a good
Speaker 2: step in the right direction with this kind of cyber
Speaker 2: security legislation that hopefully will go to Parliament. It's a
Speaker 2: security bill they're talking about putting it through, and then
Speaker 2: it puts the onus back on the companies to make
Speaker 2: sure that the devices that we use, the smart things.
Speaker 2: You know, we call it the Internet of things. So
Speaker 2: a device that's Internet enable and can be right in
Speaker 2: our digital ecosystem, it's referred to as the Internet of things.
Speaker 2: And I think that more companies need to be put
Speaker 2: under pressure to make sure these devices are secures. That's
Speaker 2: a real problem. If you've ever installed a router in
Speaker 2: your home, you know, when you connect the internet, generally
Speaker 2: the standard username and password is either admin admin or
Speaker 2: admin password or admin one two three four. You know
Speaker 2: it's it's it's mind blowingly ridiculous that standard that comes out.
Speaker 2: I mean, you should be forced when you install a
Speaker 2: router or a modem, it should be found to create
Speaker 2: a password and a username that's unique to you, not
Speaker 2: the standard because it means that all these off the
Speaker 2: shelf devices could be potentially hacked into.
Speaker 1: Hey, David gillespian I did an episode on October eleven,
Speaker 1: What's that six days ago? Episode sixteen seventy one called
Speaker 1: is your car spying on you? And he wrote wanted
Speaker 1: or not aware of it or not? If you have
Speaker 1: a relatively late model car, there's a very high chance
Speaker 1: that much of what you're doing when you're behind the
Speaker 1: wheel is being recorded. Henry Ford would be horrified his
Speaker 1: model T once a symbol of freedom, has morphed into
Speaker 1: a rolling surveillance device tracking our every move and eavesdropping
Speaker 1: on our conversations. Some cars Tesla for example, even turning
Speaker 1: into rolling CCTV cameras capturing every move Grimace and nose Pick,
Speaker 1: So there are Choice Magazine did like an expose on that.
Speaker 1: They did and then Gillespo wrote about it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that. That's fucking terrifying, Like they're not just audio
Speaker 1: recording but video recording you in your car and then
Speaker 1: keeping that. And I said to him, what about But
Speaker 1: surely they need approval or they need and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: well when you buy whatever or you of course you
Speaker 1: just go accept and he said, like trying to what
Speaker 1: did he say? He said, trying to read and understand
Speaker 1: what you're agreeing to is like trying to read a
Speaker 1: ten thousand word document in Klingon.
Speaker 2: You know, that's right. I know that in Europe, the
Speaker 2: EU is trying to force companies to make their terms
Speaker 2: of service and agreements to be a lot clearer, to
Speaker 2: spell them out, to put more kind of you know,
Speaker 2: to make the more succinct as to what they're storing
Speaker 2: and what they're keeping from you. By the way, I
Speaker 2: remember I found the article about that vacuum cleaner that
Speaker 2: collects photos and audio to train AI. It's called the
Speaker 2: d Bot dwbot robot vacuum and they're saying, and this
Speaker 2: was an article on the ABC by the way, ABC Australia.
Speaker 2: So they've been found to suffer from critical cybersecurity flaws
Speaker 2: and they're collecting photos, videos and voice recordings has taken
Speaker 2: inside customers' houses and what they're using that data for
Speaker 2: is to train the company's AI model. So they're taking it.
Speaker 2: This is a Chinese home robotics company and they sell
Speaker 2: the debot, which is a lot of people illustrated him
Speaker 2: may have one of these. I'm going to tell you
Speaker 2: a story. A friend of mine just brought himself a
Speaker 2: Chinese car. It's called the Tank. Have you heard of
Speaker 2: the Tank?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, it's made by GWM Havelet's there's a three
Speaker 1: hundred and a five hundred, so he probably bought the
Speaker 1: three hundred.
Speaker 2: Coincidence two one of my friends bought the three hundred.
Speaker 2: One bought the five hundred. But I had to laugh.
Speaker 2: I got into his car the other day. He's only
Speaker 2: had it for about two weeks, and there's a camera
Speaker 2: that faces you to crack whether you fall asleep or
Speaker 2: I mean, it's about effectively that's what it's supposed to do.
Speaker 2: He's put a sticker over it because he does looking
Speaker 2: at him. I don't know if I could be in
Speaker 2: a car that's looking back at me constantly. That's his frame.
Speaker 1: Mine's got the same thing.
Speaker 2: Oh really yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: If you blink for too long, it tells you to
Speaker 1: pull over and have a rest. Yeah wow, I mean,
Speaker 1: but just quickly jumping back to the vaxspying vacuum, think
Speaker 1: about the fact that what a genius way to get
Speaker 1: a mobile microphone and camera into your house where imagine
Speaker 1: if you know, like it looked like a microphone and camera.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't let it anywhere near your fucking property. But
Speaker 1: because oh it's a vacuum, it's a vacuum that happens
Speaker 1: to have a camera and a microphone. And you go
Speaker 1: into room and all of a sudden, there it is
Speaker 1: listening and filming, you know, And now I'm in the shower.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why it's in the bathroom, you know.
Speaker 1: I'm like, that is potentially fucking terrifying. Well, not potentially,
Speaker 1: it is terrifying.
Speaker 2: Well, they also do a two D and sometimes even
Speaker 2: a three D map of your house. And the concern
Speaker 2: is this company may legitimately be collecting the data to
Speaker 2: try to map their vacuum cleaners better, but what they
Speaker 2: can't guarantee is that they're not going to be hacked.
Speaker 2: Could you think about a crime syndicate hacking your vacuum
Speaker 2: cleaner moving around knowing where you are, when you are,
Speaker 2: when you're off to work, and where all the valuables
Speaker 2: are in the house.
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny you say this, and this is not
Speaker 1: a very good way. You and I have been quite
Speaker 1: you know, unprofessional today. But I'm just having a look
Speaker 1: at vacuum, vacuum threatening. I read this thing person, excuse me, No,
Speaker 1: I can't find it. But this this one of those
Speaker 1: vacuums was basically somebody, I don't know what the word
Speaker 1: is hijacked it. You know the word. I don't know
Speaker 1: the word, but took and they have speakers in them,
Speaker 1: and somebody was abusing. Somebody had had hacked it and
Speaker 1: was abusing the homeowner was abusing that. So obviously not
Speaker 1: the company was doing, but somebody had had that particular
Speaker 1: let's call it what it is, robot, and yeah, they
Speaker 1: they were just abusing this person who was in the home. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It is a worrying thing that we allow technology into
Speaker 2: our homes. And we talked in an episode not long
Speaker 2: ago about how some apps owned by Facebook Meta and
Speaker 2: they were tracking people in conversations. So once you have
Speaker 2: the Facebook app on your phone, potentially they could be
Speaker 2: listening into your conversation so they can serve up ads.
Speaker 2: So there was an advertising agency that ran ads for
Speaker 2: the likes of Meta, and what they were doing was
Speaker 2: they were tracking conversations for keywords and then serving up ads.
Speaker 2: They've been caught out, but they were serving up ads
Speaker 2: related to the conversation. So we're talking about robot vacuum cleaner.
Speaker 2: Potentially you could jump back on your phone and suddenly
Speaker 2: an ad for a robot vacuum cleaner would appear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep. I have that happen all the time, where
Speaker 1: I'll be talking about something, my phone's not even near me,
Speaker 1: and then I start getting ads. Hey, listen to this
Speaker 1: South Korean woman's hair eaten by robot vacuum cleaner as
Speaker 1: she slept. Oh my god, there's a photo. When a
Speaker 1: South Korean woman invested in a robot vacuum cleaner, the
Speaker 1: idea was to leave her trustworthy gadget to do its
Speaker 1: work while she took a break from household chores. Instead,
Speaker 1: the fifty two year old resident of chang Wan City
Speaker 1: ended up being a victim of what many believe is
Speaker 1: a peek into a dystopian future in which supposedly benign
Speaker 1: robots against their human masters. The woman, whose name is
Speaker 1: been with was taking a nap on the floor at
Speaker 1: home when the vacuum cleaner locked onto her hair and
Speaker 1: sucked it up, apparently mistaking it for dust. The agony
Speaker 1: of having her hair entangled in the boughs of the
Speaker 1: contraption raised her from a slumber, and then there's a
Speaker 1: photo of what looks like ambos. Oh my god. Yeah, firefighters,
Speaker 1: so you found it trying to rescue the woman. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's going to hurt.
Speaker 2: Can I just say, I'm going to take the side
Speaker 2: of the vacuum cleaner on this one.
Speaker 1: Well, that's because you've got no fucking hair, so you're
Speaker 1: not You're number anybody.
Speaker 2: Can I just say if you have a robot vacuum
Speaker 2: cleaner in your home and you lay down on the
Speaker 2: ground with your hair spread out on the floor, which
Speaker 2: is pretty gross as it happens, and the innocent robot
Speaker 2: vacuum cleaner happens to be doing their job and they
Speaker 2: find some dirt on the ground that happens to be
Speaker 2: someone's hair, it will vacuum it up. It didn't know
Speaker 2: it was attached to a human.
Speaker 1: Well, that's an that therein lies the problem.
Speaker 2: When you first told that story, I envisaged the vacuum
Speaker 2: cleaner jumping onto the bed and attacking her because that's
Speaker 2: what you made it sound like. And then the actual
Speaker 2: story was that she was naively laying on the floor
Speaker 2: while the vacuum cleaner was innocently doing its job. It
Speaker 2: doesn't it has to work times.
Speaker 1: Have I told you off air, don't let the facts
Speaker 1: get in the way of a fucking good story. So you,
Speaker 1: you and your bloody reality check can fuck off, mate.
Speaker 1: How can people connect with you and find you and
Speaker 1: follow you? Where are you at?
Speaker 2: Well? They can go to websites now, dot com, dot
Speaker 2: au and as it suggests, we actually build websites when
Speaker 2: I'm not on podcast talking crap, but we do all
Speaker 2: sorts of marketing and stuff like that. So go to
Speaker 2: if you want to ask questions, if you want us
Speaker 2: to talk about something in particular, So just go to
Speaker 2: websites now, dot com today you They can then jump
Speaker 2: online and send us sends a note, email me, contact
Speaker 2: me and I'll happily.
Speaker 1: Can I tell you if you do want to get
Speaker 1: a web and this is not a paid endorsement, but
Speaker 1: if you do want to get a website built, for
Speaker 1: God's sake, go to Patrick. Because one, there's a whole
Speaker 1: lot of fucking people who overcharge and under deliver, Like really,
Speaker 1: I've experienced it, He's not one. And there's a lot
Speaker 1: of people who try and keep you on the hook
Speaker 1: forever with a range of things you don't need, so
Speaker 1: save yourself a bit of time and energy and just
Speaker 1: start with someone who's good at it.
Speaker 2: Well, thanks, mate, that's really nice of you to say.
Speaker 2: Looking at what I love about what we do with
Speaker 2: our clients is we have such a diversity, and I
Speaker 2: love getting to know people and their businesses. I never
Speaker 2: knew that I would know anything about delivering a baby,
Speaker 2: but I do. Wow, that's because one of our clients
Speaker 2: does the most amazing obstetrics and gynological training models in
Speaker 2: the world. And they may just rand the corner from you,
Speaker 2: actually just down the road from your house.
Speaker 1: Well, the babies or.
Speaker 2: The everything, well, I guess they're happening all around you.
Speaker 1: It makes everybody everywhere appreciate you, mate, Thank you.
Speaker 2: Jeez. I