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Speaker 1: Welcome to the mentor. I'm Ike Boris Curtis. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the mentor.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Do you like the way we pronounced your surname?

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Speaker 2: Very well done.

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Speaker 1: Thank Marley courtis Marley quit. Now you are I'm going

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Speaker 1: to get this right now. You're the consul general, Yes,

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Speaker 1: of Greece or for Greece in New South Wales.

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Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you can explain to me how does this I've

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Speaker 1: always been intrigued. I mean, I know we've got an ambassador,

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Speaker 1: Greek ambassador, but he lives in Canberra. But then the

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Speaker 1: consul general what is that? How does that work? And

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Speaker 1: do we have one every stayed in Australia.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So we have one ambassador in Canberra who's in

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Speaker 2: charge of the bilateral relations and he's our boss. Then

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Speaker 2: we've got three consulates general. The largest is in Melbourne,

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Speaker 2: then here in Sydney and Adelaide, and the fourth is

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Speaker 2: in Perth. It's a consulate, not a consulate general. So

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Speaker 2: the four consulates and Consulates general, they deal mostly with

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Speaker 2: the Greek community rather than with bilateral relations. The ambassador

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Speaker 2: has the oversight, but again he his purview, his remed

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Speaker 2: is mostly bilateral relations is Australia.

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Speaker 1: But when you say bilateral relations, that means how Australia

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Speaker 1: increas in policy since exact.

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Speaker 2: Right exactly, from foreign policy to trade to other issues.

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Speaker 2: Whereas my mandate is mostly to deal with the Greek

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Speaker 2: Australian community in New South Wales and cater for their

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Speaker 2: for their needs, renewals of renewal of passports, citizenship, which

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Speaker 2: is probably the most demanding powers of attorney. Legal issues.

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Speaker 2: They've got property issues, military service deferment, things like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's you made a very interesting point. Actually

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Speaker 1: one I've always been very curious about property issues. And

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Speaker 1: then you're talking about Australian or Greek Australians or Australian

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Speaker 1: Greeks who may have dual citizenship because that's something that

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Speaker 1: Australia does and Greece does, so they might have someone

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Speaker 1: like me. I've got your dual citizenship, which means I've

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Speaker 1: got a passport in Greek and an Australian passport. But

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Speaker 1: maybe we own property in Greece, for example, and it

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Speaker 1: could have been your father's, my father's property, or might

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Speaker 1: have bought something whatever. What are the property issues, the

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Speaker 1: sort of property issues that the people who come to

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Speaker 1: your consulate, what are they what are they worried about?

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Speaker 1: What are the issues? I mean? Are they worried about

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Speaker 1: things like paying tax in Greece or is there something

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Speaker 1: because it is Greeks. Grece is a member of the

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Speaker 1: European Union, and as some of the European Union countries

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Speaker 1: actually charged people who are non residents and extra tax

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Speaker 1: if they're not living in the property in Europe. Is

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Speaker 1: that the sort of thing you're talking about.

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Speaker 2: There are two main issues we've got on this. One

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Speaker 2: is inheritance. So a Greek Australian who has left, well,

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Speaker 2: his grandparents have left, and decades later he finds out

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Speaker 2: that he has inherited property in Greece. You don't need

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Speaker 2: to be a Greek citizen to inherit property, but it

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Speaker 2: makes it easier. So that is where problems sometimes arise,

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Speaker 2: because they want to quickly become Greek citizens to be

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Speaker 2: able to sort out their their their dealings in Greece.

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Speaker 2: And when it comes to taxing you probably know this.

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Speaker 2: We've started a negotiation the two countries to agree on

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Speaker 2: a double te Stesson avoidance.

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Speaker 1: Agreement, which we've never had before.

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Speaker 2: No, we haven't and we haven't reached the point yet,

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Speaker 2: but hopefully within the foreseeable future we will reach an

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Speaker 2: agreement and that will help many Greek Australians.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because what you're talking about here, Rannests. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about here trying to and I don't mean it in

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Speaker 1: a sinister sense, but avoid being taxed twice.

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Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, if you've got.

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Speaker 1: Income in Greece, you don't want to have to pay

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Speaker 1: tax in Greece and then when you come back to

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Speaker 1: austraighta pay tax again. You want to get a credit

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Speaker 1: for what you pay in Greece. Or altern ofly, if

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Speaker 1: you live in Greece but you're an Australian citizen, you're

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Speaker 1: an income you want to get a credit for what

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Speaker 1: you're paying Australia.

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Speaker 2: And your global income is here. If you're a Greek Australian,

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Speaker 2: that's where you declare taxes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's how the Australian government works. Yes, So

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Speaker 1: in your job, then I guess you're getting lots and

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Speaker 1: lots of inquiry because you know, I've been up to

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Speaker 1: the consulate there and this is the one down across

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Speaker 1: the road from the Alpha restaurant. Exactly, great gaps building, Yes, and.

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Speaker 2: It is.

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Speaker 1: It must be sort of exhausting sometimes because some of

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Speaker 1: the people can get pretty upset simple things like passports,

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Speaker 1: like passport renew exactly, it takes a long time.

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Speaker 2: No, passport renewal is quite simple, actually we should be.

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Speaker 2: Citizenship is more complicated, and these two issues are often

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Speaker 2: conflated by Greek Australians. It probably has to do with

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Speaker 2: how they see how things work in Australia. Every day

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Speaker 2: we receive tens of emails in which the Greek Australians request.

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Speaker 1: For a passport.

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Speaker 2: When you receive that, you probably think that the sender

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Speaker 2: is an existing Greek citizen who wants to renew or

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Speaker 2: issue his Greek or Greek passport, Whereas it's usually a

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Speaker 2: Greek Australian of Greek descent who wants to become a

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Speaker 2: Greek citizen to be eligible for a passport in the future.

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Speaker 2: So when it comes to renewals of existing Greek citizens,

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Speaker 2: that's done within two months from the moment you come

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Speaker 2: and apply. Two months later, you've got your passport.

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Speaker 1: Is that done? Here? Do you have the deination?

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Speaker 2: We send the application back home and then the passport

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Speaker 2: is sent to us and we give it to the applicant.

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Speaker 2: There's no problem with passport renewals or issues of passport passports.

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Speaker 2: The problem is when it comes to citizenship, because there's

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Speaker 2: a very large demand, high demand, there's a backlog, and

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Speaker 2: we have a lean set up. Still we're trying to

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Speaker 2: The Greek government has announced that we will employ locally

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Speaker 2: and we have recently made an announcement to employ three

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Speaker 2: local staff which will help who will help in resolving

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Speaker 2: these issues. But there's a very high demand and backlog

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Speaker 2: for citizenship in Greece. Here Greek Australians who want to

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Speaker 2: become dual citizens.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, why do they want to become? Well, what was

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Speaker 1: the objective?

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Speaker 2: I would say there there's a romantic or sentimental answer

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Speaker 2: to your question, and there's a more utilitarian one. The

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Speaker 2: romantic one is that they want to reconnect to the

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Speaker 2: to the homeland of their grandparents and at a later

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Speaker 2: stage in their lives there they want to go, not

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Speaker 2: go back for good, but to be able to go

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Speaker 2: back frequently and why not have property and they want

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Speaker 2: to you know, re establish this connection which perhaps they

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Speaker 2: have lost because their grandparents have passed. So on the

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Speaker 2: other one, the more practical or pragmatic reason is that

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Speaker 2: a Greek passport provides more options in your life for

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Speaker 2: the future, whether you want to work in Europe, whether

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Speaker 2: you want to travel in Europe without the ninety day limit,

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Speaker 2: and in general to have your options open for the future.

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Speaker 2: You feel more secure to also have a European passport

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Speaker 2: as they call it. They confuse that they call it

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Speaker 2: European passport. It's not the European passport. It's a Greek passport.

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Speaker 2: We don't have European passport. We've got French, Greek, Irish passports, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and German, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: But at each one of those countries maybe the European

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Speaker 1: Union as rexactly, you get the benefits.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you get the benefits of being part of this

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Speaker 2: larger family which is called European Union.

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Speaker 1: But you honest could you could you also maybe it's

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Speaker 1: a third one is a third one? And if I

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Speaker 1: can suggest Greece become really popular, like it's trending. It's

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Speaker 1: not trendy, and it's trendy, but it's trending big time. Yes,

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Speaker 1: could there be? Have you noticed a greater demand for

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Speaker 1: citizenship dual citizenship from Australians so Greek descendant Australians. If

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Speaker 1: that's the word, have you sent an increase in demand

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Speaker 1: because of the new popularity what I can see to

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Speaker 1: be the new popularity of being Greek or going to Greece.

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Speaker 2: Yes, perhaps that is it, especially in the past five years,

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Speaker 2: I tell you, yes. And what is positive is that

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Speaker 2: when Greek Australians go back to Greece there are probably

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Speaker 2: the highest vendors. Is that right? They really helped the economy.

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Speaker 2: Greek Australian tourists are good tourists, so yes. The ninety

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Speaker 2: day limit which they have restrains them and limits their options.

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Speaker 2: So they want to be able to travel more often

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Speaker 2: and stay for longereriods of time, especially retired Greeks.

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Speaker 1: Greek Australian and I don't know which part of Greece

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Speaker 1: you're from. You're obviously born in Greece. And where were

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Speaker 1: you born in Greece?

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Speaker 2: I was born in Athens. I'm a third generation Athenian.

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Speaker 2: But my grandfather left from Kalamata at the age of

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Speaker 2: sixteen to go to the Greek military academy school Leveloped

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Speaker 2: and it's called so he left at sixteen. He became

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Speaker 2: an officer of the Greek Army. And then my father

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Speaker 2: was born in Athens and so was I.

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Speaker 1: And what was your education educated in Athens? Did you

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Speaker 1: go to an international school?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I went to an international school in Athens and

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Speaker 2: I studied in tertiary education in the United Kingdom.

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Speaker 1: You went on to study now for your generation, is

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Speaker 1: that a typical move that you go to do your

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Speaker 1: university outside of Greece.

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Speaker 2: At the time, the UK was very popular because it

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Speaker 2: was still before Brexit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So there were no fees and I remember my university face.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: I remember my late father telling me that it's cheaper

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Speaker 2: to send me there than to send me to Thesaloniki,

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Speaker 2: which was probably an exaggeration, but that's how cheap it

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Speaker 2: was for us. We didn't pay any fees. We just

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Speaker 2: had to pay living expenses, and outside London life was

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Speaker 2: quite affordable.

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Speaker 1: Then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, then this is thirty five years ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then what did you study thirty years I say,

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Speaker 1: you got a whole lot of university degrees, but like

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Speaker 1: you've done a lot of study.

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Speaker 2: My first degree was in history and politics at the

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Speaker 2: University of Nottingham, second degree European Politics and policy at

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Speaker 2: the London School of Economics.

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Speaker 1: Wow, London School of Economics. Yes, that in Chicago were

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Speaker 1: the two great schools economic schools in the world.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well yeah, it still is quite high up in

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Speaker 2: the rankings. Yeah. And the third international law at the

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Speaker 2: University of Geneva.

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Speaker 1: So, and were you always set for this diplomatic style career?

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Speaker 2: Was that? I mean I had influences in my family

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Speaker 2: and we were highly let's say politicized family. We spoke

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Speaker 2: about international relations and politics. But my plan initially was

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Speaker 2: to become an academic. I wanted to study. I wanted

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Speaker 2: to become a professor, university history professor. And in the

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Speaker 2: course this changed, especially when I came back to Greece

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Speaker 2: to serve in the military. My life changed. So I

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Speaker 2: decided to go into the workforce.

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Speaker 1: And you might explain you I said, and I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure if it's still the case, but military service is compulsory.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it is still still for everyone. At the time,

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Speaker 2: it was almost two years I did twenty three months.

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Speaker 2: Now it's much less. It's a year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I remember, and I'm pretty old, but I

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Speaker 1: remember when I first went to Greece, when I was

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Speaker 1: twenty five years ago, which is forty three plus years ago.

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Speaker 1: My first trip de Greece, I shared to get a

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Speaker 1: letter signed by the Australian Consulate I think it was

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Speaker 1: Australian Consulate saying that I was also an Australian citizen,

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Speaker 1: so I had an exemption, but I couldn't stay more

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Speaker 1: than thirty days at the time in Greece, otherwise you

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Speaker 1: have to do military service. They stop you at the

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Speaker 1: then they stopped you at the airport and ask.

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Speaker 2: You yes, what you have to do is on once

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Speaker 2: you become a Greek citizen, you need to get to

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Speaker 2: do the paperwork to get a deferment. With this deferment,

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Speaker 2: you can reside. You can stay in Greece for up

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Speaker 2: to six months a year without serving as a Greek

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Speaker 2: from abroad. If you exceed this time, then you have

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Speaker 2: to serve three months. That's the rule. The thirty day

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Speaker 2: rule is for those who have not done the paperwork

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Speaker 2: just go into the country without having received this deferment.

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Speaker 2: So that must be that you have to leave within

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Speaker 2: thirty days.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that must have been sort of what was happening.

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Speaker 1: That's the sort of deal. Because I had no deferment

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Speaker 1: and had made any application, so they just said I

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Speaker 1: could stay thirty days. And I recall someone telling me

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Speaker 1: that the rule in Greece was if your father's born

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Speaker 1: in Greece, your Greek. Like that's that's the legal rule.

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Speaker 1: That's the view, not your mother, your father, your father's Greek.

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Speaker 2: All this has changed, like you has it yes early eighties,

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Speaker 2: we had many reforms on these issues. Before eighty four,

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Speaker 2: a woman, for example, could not pass on Greek citizenship

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Speaker 2: to her children. It was only the father, only the father.

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Speaker 2: This has changed after nineteen eighty four, and Greek citizenship

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Speaker 2: is by blood, it's not by territory, so it doesn't

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Speaker 2: make a difference whether you were born in Greece. If

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Speaker 2: you're a foreigner and born in Greece, you don't immediately

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Speaker 2: have a right to Greek citizenship, Whereas if you're born

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Speaker 2: abroad but your parents are Greek, you're also eligible to

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Speaker 2: become a Greek citizen, but you don't automatically become one.

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Speaker 2: You have to be registered.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, my father registry. But my father registered me,

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Speaker 1: then you became Yeah, why he did it, but he did.

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize he didn't tell me, but then he

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Speaker 1: told me many years later that when I was born,

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Speaker 1: he registered me. Yeah, I don't understand what was my

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Speaker 1: dad was thinking. Maybe it was being pretty modern at

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Speaker 1: the time, but or maybe the other way, maybe it's

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Speaker 1: just being old fashioned as well. And as a result

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Speaker 1: of that, a lot of things flowed. When I mean,

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Speaker 1: I understand what you do on a day day bas

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Speaker 1: at which your consulate does. You're obviously the boss in

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Speaker 1: New South Wales, but you're not stamping passports things like that.

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Speaker 1: But nonetheless I understand what you do. But how important

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Speaker 1: is your role? Because I often go to functions, for example,

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Speaker 1: the Hellenic Initiative, et cetera, where I see representative diplomatic

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Speaker 1: representatives of the Greek government at those events, sometimes the

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Speaker 1: ambassadors even there. How important is your role in maintaining

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Speaker 1: maintaining I don't know if that's the right word. Fostering

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Speaker 1: perhaps is a better word. Greek culture in Australia for Australians,

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Speaker 1: but also for those people who hankering to have that

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Speaker 1: Greek culture maintain they're probably people who have Greek descendants.

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Speaker 2: I would say it is extremely important, and it is

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Speaker 2: after six o'clock because from name to six it's what

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Speaker 2: you said. Yeah, So basically day to day more bureaucratic

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Speaker 2: stuff after six, it's representing the Greek government within the

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Speaker 2: Greek Australian community, but also bilaterally with authorities on New.

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Speaker 1: South Wales as in government.

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Speaker 2: Yes, for a function of the Premier or of some

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Speaker 2: minister I would be there as well. Or relations with

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Speaker 2: the consular core here, which is one of the largest

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Speaker 2: in the world, or even meetings with other community leaders,

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Speaker 2: for example the Jewish community of Sydney. But the most

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Speaker 2: important part is undoubtedly representing the Greek state in the

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Speaker 2: functions of the Greek community and promoting Greek culture and

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Speaker 2: fostering bonds between the two countries. I think what is important,

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Speaker 2: especially for Australian born Greeks, is to find the different

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Speaker 2: stories or elements that connect our two countries. Because when

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Speaker 2: our grandparents came here, there was a very strong parochial

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Speaker 2: element to their identity. They came from their villages, they

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Speaker 2: brought this with them and they were organized on the

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Speaker 2: basis of that. So they had associations from let's say

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Speaker 2: Tripoli or Kalamata or Thessaloniki. That is waning because Greek

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Speaker 2: Australians born in Australia don't have the same memories or

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Speaker 2: experiences from Greece. So the challenge is to find those

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Speaker 2: elements that make Greek Australians proud of their heritage but

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Speaker 2: also connect them to their new homeland. A typical example

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Speaker 2: is the anzac story of Australians fighting for Greek freedom

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Speaker 2: during both World Wars, the Limnos story, which was brought

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Speaker 2: into light in the past ten years, the importance of

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Speaker 2: Lemnos during the Gallipoli Campaign, the fact that it was

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Speaker 2: the logistics hub of the Australians, and in the Second

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Speaker 2: World War, the participation of Australians in the Greek campaign

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Speaker 2: and in the Battle of Crete. These stories foster bonds

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Speaker 2: between our two countries and they make Greek Australians proud

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Speaker 2: and they managed to include themselves themselves in the equation

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Speaker 2: of the Greek Australian story.

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Speaker 1: That's very interesting that you say, because you made me

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Speaker 1: think back when my dad's elder brother, Nick, he was

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Speaker 1: the secretary of the Panaccadian Society in Australia, which is

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Speaker 1: sort of a region of Greece where my family came from.

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Speaker 1: But those societies, if they exist, they're not very prevalent

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Speaker 1: anymore in fact, but the Pannicadian would have an annual function.

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Speaker 1: These things don't exist anymore. They don't have these annual

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Speaker 1: functions give all a big deal.

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Speaker 2: They do, but they are mostly focused towards that generation

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Speaker 2: older people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, whereas the younger people probably looking for something else

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Speaker 1: to identify with. And I remember, I mean when I

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Speaker 1: was I'll quickly tell this story before we go to

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Speaker 1: the break and comeback. But because I do want to

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Speaker 1: talk to you about your Prime Minister, the great work

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Speaker 1: he's doing in Greece and the reputation Greece is getting

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Speaker 1: worldwide in a commercial sense. But I do remember when

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Speaker 1: I was fifteen, I was the second oldest cousin and

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Speaker 1: a third oldest cousin in my family. I got a

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Speaker 1: lot of cousins. Can you imagine seven boys, lots of kids,

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Speaker 1: grandkids and etc. But I used to have to take

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Speaker 1: I used to have to partner female cousins to the

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Speaker 1: Young Matrons Ball Greek Young Greek Matrons Ball, which is

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Speaker 1: just to be held at what was called the wink

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Speaker 1: With Hotel was now called the Softa Tel Hotel, and

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Speaker 1: you just have to go and learn in the middle

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Speaker 1: of summer every Saturday, Greek dancing at the Hellenic Club

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Speaker 1: in Elizabeth Street because all my friends were going to

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Speaker 1: the beach and it was summer and and but this

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Speaker 1: was because the ball was but it was a big event.

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Speaker 1: The archbishop used to go. Everybody sort of went. My

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Speaker 1: family went, my parents, my uncle's aunties, everybody. I had

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Speaker 1: tables and you wore.

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Speaker 2: It's still a very big thing for community.

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Speaker 1: But it's more than the Kazis do it. I think

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if they just do it.

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Speaker 2: They still have mat to it every June usually.

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Speaker 1: They do it, and they still do it and it's

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Speaker 1: still a big event.

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Speaker 2: And the Kutherians and the Catherians, the two balls over

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Speaker 2: the calendar. I think, here are those two right, They're

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Speaker 2: still doing it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good because I wasn't sure because but I

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Speaker 1: thought to myself, I actually used to think it was

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Speaker 1: very parochial. I didn't know that word when I was fifteen,

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Speaker 1: but that sort of was more the description. I used

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Speaker 1: to think, why are they doing this like this and why?

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Speaker 1: I mean, my cousins they were you know, they were

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Speaker 1: born in Australia and they didn't need to wear the

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Speaker 1: dress to be for the first time that it wasn't

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Speaker 1: like the first time they've ever been out, but we're

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Speaker 1: doing doing that in a sort of symbolic way.

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Speaker 2: It is though it is not so parochial in the

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Speaker 2: sense that it is an adaptation to a strain in life,

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Speaker 2: because we don't have debutante balls in Greece. Oh really,

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Speaker 2: we never had something like that. That is very British.

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Speaker 2: So it's interesting because it's exactly this example of Greeks

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Speaker 2: wanting to fit in and in the same ball, you've

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Speaker 2: got people dressed as they would be in a British

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Speaker 2: deputant ball in the nineteenth century. But at the end

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Speaker 2: of the function they dance Greek. Ye they did, So

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Speaker 2: it is a combination of the two.

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Speaker 1: Worlds that's very interesting.

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Speaker 2: At these events, they're not so parochial as they might seem.

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Speaker 1: And I'm glad to hear they're still holding them. I

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Speaker 1: mean now, as an old and much older man, I'm

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Speaker 1: actually quite happy please that they still holding him. I

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Speaker 1: want to get break, and I'm going to come straight

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Speaker 1: back because I do want to talk to you about

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Speaker 1: your prime minister. Okay, I'm back from break, and now

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Speaker 1: let's talk about your current prime minister. Progressive, Can you

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Speaker 1: just give us a bit of a story about your promise,

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Speaker 1: and how has he thought of in Greece.

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Speaker 2: Just to point out that I represent the Greek states

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Speaker 2: under the Greek government.

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Speaker 1: I understand. So you're in another words, you're not pro

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Speaker 1: or against the Prime Minister.

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Speaker 2: I'm a bit on thin ice on this one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta be careful.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the Greek government is. In terms of the economy,

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Speaker 2: the Greek state is doing very well. Yeah, figures are

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Speaker 2: looking good, indicators are good. We get positive press, especially

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Speaker 2: in the Economists and other important international journals, and public

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Speaker 2: debt as well, which was a huge problem ten years ago.

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Speaker 1: Pope post GFC, yes, yes, a big it has.

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Speaker 2: It is dropping quickly and growth is also encouraging. So

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Speaker 2: and there are major investments taking place in the country.

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Speaker 2: Have you been to Athens recently? Yeah, yeah, there is.

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Speaker 2: There are big projects going on and in terms of

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Speaker 2: infrastructure as well. So the economy has picked up in

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Speaker 2: the past few years.

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Speaker 1: But I don't understand though, why all of a sudden.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've got huge, wealthy countries investing in Greece,

400
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Speaker 1: especially at the old airport, like massive amounts of money

401
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: we're talking about here, and yet if you go back

402
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: to the GFC period, when Greece was in all sorts

403
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: of trouble, which is when the Hellenic Initiative initiative was

404
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: first launched to help people who are basically on the breadline,

405
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Speaker 1: like really doing it tough, and a lot of Australians.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure this happened globally. I know it did

407
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Speaker 1: happen to globally amongst the diasper around the world. They

408
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: all formed the Hellenic Initiative, participated in it, and we

409
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Speaker 1: raise money, et cetera, and I send the money back

410
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Speaker 1: to Greece, and also did lots of other things. But

411
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: since that period, commercially economically, Greece has seemed to have

412
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: outperformed itself compared to previous years. Has become very progressive,

413
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Speaker 1: allowing developments, also allowing a lot of international funds to

414
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: come into Greece and put money, invest money into Greece,

415
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Speaker 1: like in real estate, in ports, all sorts of things,

416
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Speaker 1: and tourism as well, particularly tourism, and then tourism of

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Speaker 1: course has picked up. Greece has become very good at

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Speaker 1: advertising itself all of a sudden, I mean, even on

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Speaker 1: things like Instagram. I mean, maybe the Instagram's feeding me,

420
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Speaker 1: but I look at one or two things and the

421
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Speaker 1: next thing, and I've got ten things popping up on

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Speaker 1: my feed, and all of it makes me think, God,

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Speaker 1: I wish I was there now, you know, like everyone swimming,

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Speaker 1: everybody's dancing and enjoying themselves, you know, like eating whatever.

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Speaker 1: And then they show you these beautiful photographs of you know,

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Speaker 1: places and the various greg islands, or if you get

427
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: a Thessaloniki, you know, like what it looks like, you know,

428
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Speaker 1: to walk around the streets. All of a sudden, Greece

429
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Speaker 1: is advertising itself and other people are advertising for you too,

430
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Speaker 1: when they're tourists, you know, putting stuff on and famous

431
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: American tourists, especially putting stuff on Instagram. Has Do you

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Speaker 1: think that this has been a strategy that has been

433
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Speaker 1: purposely sought after, or as has just been a confluence

434
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Speaker 1: of events that have resulted in Greece becoming ever so

435
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Speaker 1: popular and a great place to invest now in certain projects.

436
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Speaker 2: At least, I think it's a combination of factors. It's

437
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 2: both at the same time. The GFC was dramatic for

438
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 2: Luntry because it reduced the country's GDP by one fourth,

439
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 2: which is the largest drope in peacetime ever recorded, we

440
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: lost about twenty five percent I think at least twenty

441
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 2: five percent of our GDP. At the same time, some

442
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 2: important reforms were implemented at the time and investing in

443
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 2: Greece became more favorable and the business climate improved gradually.

444
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 2: So this started. This is not just a new phenomenon.

445
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: It's gradual over the past let's say ten years. And

446
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 2: there is I think a strategy by the government to

447
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 2: promote Greek tourism and Greece as a destination which is multifaceted.

448
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 2: It can provide different services gastronomical as well. There's Athens

449
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: has become a new hub for restaurants, for Greek cuisine

450
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: or even a more boem style of tourists. It's not

451
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 2: of tourism. It's not just targeted towards the tourists that

452
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: we had in the nineteen eighties. Yes, it's more multi

453
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 2: dimensional cultural tourism tourism. There is there is an effort

454
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: to differentiate the product when it comes to tourism. Yeah.

455
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: But because when I go to Athens now I find

456
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: it as a culturally.

457
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 2: Different yeah, and very vibrant yeah, and a lot of energy, yes,

458
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:45,959
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of things going on.

459
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: Yes, it's not just you get in a monaster racket

460
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: and go to exactly. You know, it's not just this, it's.

461
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:58,959
Speaker 2: Not just a souvenir, and it's not just a veteran

462
00:28:59,040 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 2: all of it.

463
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: Yeah what I used to call it. But there's a

464
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: lot of things now you're still going on those other

465
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: things you can still get.

466
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 2: Yes, but other things are going on as.

467
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: Well, lots of activity. And I find the energy of

468
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: the place, particularly Athens, it hasn't for me. It hasn't

469
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: bled down into places like the PLoP on Us or

470
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: like it hasn't led down to from where you're from.

471
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:27,479
Speaker 1: Kalamata hasn't really changed that much. It's developing, it's going

472
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: to air, but it's not that much. It's still colormade

473
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: as it was. I mean, and you can like where

474
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: my father comes from. Nothing's really changed. But there's only

475
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: like a couple of hundred people live in my dad's

476
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: village now. It's just some older women and some of

477
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: old men, but mostly the young people don't live there anymore,

478
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: especially the summer them not. But they will go like you,

479
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: they'll go to a university somewhere and then they get

480
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: to become an engineer in Germany or something. They go

481
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: somewhere else for their job. Although I would hope that

482
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: Greece is looking as some way to attract them back.

483
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 2: The government has implemented measures, especially when it comes to

484
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 2: taxation incentives, giving incentives to this brain drain to come back,

485
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 2: because during the crisis, thousands of Greeks left, white collared Greeks,

486
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: educated Greeks who went to mostly Europe, but even beyond doctors,

487
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 2: lawyers and businessmen. And now we're trying to attract them

488
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 2: to come back. And it is and we are succeeding

489
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: to a certain extent.

490
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: As long as you got projects for them, you have

491
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: to have and incentives for them to return and incentives. Yeah,

492
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: you are educated as a historian and political science and

493
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: political scientist, but if I could just look at history

494
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: historian side of it. When you did your education, was

495
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,479
Speaker 1: it around Greece's place in history?

496
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: No, it was most mostly European.

497
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: History, European history in general.

498
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: In the UK, there was no separate course for Greek history.

499
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: There was a course that touched upon Greek political history.

500
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 2: It was called Transitions to Democracy in Southeastern Europe because

501
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 2: at the time the three models were Spain, Greece, Portugal.

502
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: In Spain the way they transitioned from dictatorship to democracy

503
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 2: in the nineteen seventies, so there was a it was

504
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: trendy to analyze cases in a comparative way, so it

505
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 2: was called comparative politics in Southeastern Europe and transitions to democracy.

506
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: That's where I touched upon Greek history. But in general

507
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 2: there was not a separate course for Greek history. What

508
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 2: about on my own, I read a lot.

509
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: I was that I was going to ask you, So

510
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: the importance of Greek history in Greek culture, where does

511
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: that seat?

512
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: It's fundamental, as is the language. And this is an

513
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 2: issue we can touch upon later if you want, about

514
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 2: the need for Greek Australians to do more in my view,

515
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 2: to maintain the language amongst So I like to talk

516
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 2: about that amongst second and third generation Greeks because I

517
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: don't want to want to be alarmist, but we are

518
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: gradually losing the language here. Greek history is very important

519
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:34,719
Speaker 2: because it creates a self awareness amongst the community. And

520
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 2: to see why. For example, if you don't if you

521
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: don't know, if you're a Greek history, you won't understand

522
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 2: why your grandparents came here, because they didn't come here

523
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 2: by choice. Yes, there are three main waves of Greek

524
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 2: migration to Australia. The first is in the nineteenth century

525
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 2: from the Greek Revolution. Actually the first you probably know

526
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 2: this story, the first seven Greek sailors who came here

527
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 2: by force because they were arrested in Malta. And then

528
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: we had the Kazis, the Kutherians and from Ithaca. Those

529
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 2: were the three main places of Greek migration up until

530
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty. After nineteen twenty two we have a new

531
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 2: wave because of the Asia Minor disaster, and then we've

532
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: got the largest wave after the Greek after the Second

533
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 2: World War. And if you do not know why, what

534
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 2: were the historical trends that pushed these people to make

535
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 2: this journey, you won't really understand where they're coming from.

536
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: So it's important to have at least a basic self

537
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 2: awareness and knowledge of Greek history.

538
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: And where can someone find that out? Do you guys

539
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: put that up on the website or.

540
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 2: We do a lot. We have many functions, not just

541
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 2: us the Consulate, but the Greek community and through the archdiocese.

542
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 2: There is an effort to promote Greek history. For example,

543
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 2: in my first year here, we organized events to commemorate

544
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 2: the story of the Greek Jews, which is not very

545
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 2: very very well known in Australia, but even a few

546
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 2: decades ago was not very well known in Greece either.

547
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 2: We commemorated early years of the extermination of the Greek Jews,

548
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 2: of the tragic events of nineteen forty three when they

549
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 2: were all sent almost all of them were sent to Auschwitz.

550
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 2: Then we've done functions about the Anzac story, which is

551
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 2: very important Battle of Crete. Even sometimes we've gone back

552
00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 2: to ancient history and the similarities between between Greek mythology

553
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 2: and indigenous dreamings, which you would not expect, but there are.

554
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 2: There are some well similarities. You can find some common trends.

555
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 2: So it is a very important part of my job

556
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: to promote this, I think, and a lot has to

557
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 2: be done in that field, because we're not just about

558
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 2: and I don't want to diminish the importance of Greek

559
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: parades and dances and suvlaiki, but we're much more than that.

560
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 2: We're not just that.

561
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny because my good friend Nick Pappus, when

562
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: we were both on the board of the Powerhouse Museum.

563
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: He was a chairman of trust. We bought out the

564
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 1: Banaki two thousand and four, I think, yeah, yeah, we

565
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: bought the exhibition out from the Banaki Museum in Athens,

566
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: which is a very good place, a good place to

567
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 1: go visit. Looks is quite beautiful. But they bought some

568
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: of the treasures, not everything. Yes, and they displayed it

569
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: here and I don't think. I'm not sure if it

570
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: went to Melbourne, but it may have and it was

571
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: quite one of or to see this stuff and for

572
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: Greek Australians to go and have a look, because a

573
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: lot of them, if they go to Greece Athens, they

574
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: don't ever go to these sorts of places, these museums.

575
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: They mostly spend their time at the plaka or on

576
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: an island. Because you know, one of the things is important.

577
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: I don't for my point of anyway is Greece is

578
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: not just about going in there for parties. It's the

579
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: history and the culture. Then the culture is very very important,

580
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: and it's very difficult for somebody to go and experience

581
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: it if they don't have a friend there or a

582
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: family there, or if they at least haven't read about

583
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: it before they go or haven't even been made aware

584
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: of it, because if they're not aware of it, they

585
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: don't know what to do. And I think that's a

586
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 1: good thing for the Consul General to be doing in

587
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: Australia across the country, not just in your southwast but everywhere.

588
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: This education process really important. What are you guys doing

589
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: in relation to that? So where do you feel as

590
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: though your role fits into that?

591
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 2: In promoting culture and history. Together with associations and the

592
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 2: Greek community in general, we organize lectures and functions. To

593
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 2: be honest, sometimes it is a challenge to attract many

594
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 2: people at these functions. Yet I think there is a

595
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 2: very strong didactic objective of what you said before, in

596
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 2: other words, to educate and we learned things from these lectures.

597
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: Last year we had This year actually we commemorated the

598
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 2: two hundredth the anniversary of the of the death of

599
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 2: Lord Byron and Massolonghi, and so we had a lecture.

600
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 2: We organized a lecture together with the Modern Greek Department

601
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 2: at the University of Sydney to tell the story of

602
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: Lord Byron with Professor car Alice. A lot is taking

603
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 2: place not just through the Consulate, through other act. Perhaps

604
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 2: sometimes we're not. We must promote, we must make it

605
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 2: more public.

606
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 3: That is always a challenge for us, because for me,

607
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 3: I'd love to see much more of this and this

608
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 3: and then all this sort of brings us into the

609
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 3: loss of Greek language in Australia.

610
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: And I'll give you a good example example, a good

611
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: example of how it happens. Say, if you look in

612
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: my family, my father married an Irish woman in Australia.

613
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,399
Speaker 1: But my father and his brothers and my yeah, yeah,

614
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: who I lived with, she couldn't speak one word of

615
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: English I had. When I was at university, I lived with

616
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: my grandmother and so I had to learned to speak Greek.

617
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 1: So because otherwise I can't communicate. But what's interesting is

618
00:38:54,719 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: they brought from Greece their village Greek from nineteen forty eight,

619
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: and no one really went back for maybe fifty years.

620
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: The Greek they spoke here was the same Greek they

621
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: spoke in the village in nineteen forty eight. In fact,

622
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: and my father worked in Australian business, so he didn't

623
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: speak to anyone else Greek except for his family. So

624
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: right up until my father's death, actually this year, his

625
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: Greek he and his brothers could speak no problem. But

626
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: he and I went back to Athens and like he

627
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:41,760
Speaker 1: had difficulty, like speaking in a modern Greek way for

628
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: more formal he can't speak. He couldn't really understand things.

629
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: There was words being introduced to him by by the

630
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: way young Bulgarian women who speak better Greek than he

631
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: does in the cafe we were going to, and my

632
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: dad used to get a bit embarrassed, so we sort

633
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: of spoke of really Greek. Now my father's passed away.

634
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: The only time I speak any Greek is if I

635
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: go to my dad's house. I wish I used to

636
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: go every Saturday, and I would we would practice you

637
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: know who say that you said the wrong way the

638
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: roight We know this, you know, like you know, like

639
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 1: stupid litheos like you know, but like if this silly

640
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: word like alithio a lithios ilithios same sound the same,

641
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: but they're two completely different words one stupid one's truth

642
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, you know, like, and my father would

643
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,959
Speaker 1: always be picking me up. Now my father's passed away,

644
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: I think to myself, how am I going to continue

645
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 1: on with this? Because I feel a bit of an

646
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 1: obligation to my own family, because I have four sons

647
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: three grandsons to at least carry something forward from my

648
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: dad's side of the family that has some relevance to

649
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: them culturally and also, you know, perhaps even genetically. I

650
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: think it's probably a good way of putting it, but

651
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: I find it frustratingly difficult to do that. I mean, sure,

652
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: I look at all the apps, but like you know,

653
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: they're complicated and you've got to spend a lot of time.

654
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: There's no place to really speak Greek like properly for

655
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 1: me where someone will have the patience to say something

656
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 1: to me. So Mark, that's wrong. You know, you pronounce

657
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: it incorrectly or you've got the grammar wrong. I have

658
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: some friends who are Greek, so I do speak to

659
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 1: them when I have an occasion, but it's just like

660
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 1: one or two sentences. Because we have Australian friends stay

661
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 1: in front of us, otherwise it can be rude. So

662
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: we don't know. We don't do that. So so what

663
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: do you think could be done in this regard For

664
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 1: the younger generation, the main challenge is not so much

665
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: supply of Greek language, of learning the Greek language.

666
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 2: Rather than demand. Really, and we have options if we

667
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:05,479
Speaker 2: want to learn Greek. In Australia, there are three full

668
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 2: Greek Orthodox schools where Greek is taught. The Greek community

669
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 2: of New South Wales also has Saturday and afternoon schools.

670
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 2: There are private many parishes have Greek lessons provide Greek lessons,

671
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: and there are also options in the public schools where

672
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 2: there are many Greeks living residing, for example in Eirlwood.

673
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 2: The Australian public system provides for the teaching of Greek.

674
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 2: The main issues demand and what do I mean by that?

675
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 2: Greek Australians, especially second and third generation do not see

676
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 2: the purpose in what sense. We are all were geared

677
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 2: towards succeeding in life and doing well and excel in

678
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 2: our professional domains. You don't need Greek for that. Yes,

679
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 2: so the question I get from younger Greek Australian what

680
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 2: is in it for me to learn the language? What

681
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 2: will I gain by learning Greek? And they live in

682
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: a country which is in which English is spoken. English

683
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 2: is a steamroller. You don't need another language to do

684
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 2: well in Australia. Unlike us. When we grew up, our

685
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 2: parents in Greece used to tell us that if we

686
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 2: don't learn any other foreign language, we will be failures

687
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 2: in life. You know, that was really instilled into our

688
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 2: minds that we have to learn a foreign language here.

689
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 2: It's not part of the culture. There's no need to learn.

690
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,760
Speaker 2: You're bit geographically remote from the rest of the world.

691
00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 2: You can do perfectly fine with just English. And the

692
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 2: challenges to convince a young Greek Australian to learn the language.

693
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: And one of the arguments I use is that if

694
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 2: you want the Greek passport, for example, although it's not

695
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 2: a precondition, there are certain categories of pathways to Greek

696
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 2: citizenship which require you to speak the language if you

697
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 2: want to go through naturalization for example. Another argument is

698
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 2: that if you want to fit in when you go

699
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 2: back to Greece, and apparently most Greek Australians want to

700
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 2: go back to Greece, you have to be able to

701
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 2: at least order koffures of life. Yet Greek taverna.

702
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: Right, especially outside of Athens.

703
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 2: Outside of Athens, yeah, yes, because in Athens most people

704
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 2: do speak English, but it's not always easy to convince

705
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 2: Greek Australians to speak the language. And because you refer

706
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 2: to your family, I will tell you what I see

707
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 2: in many of the Greek restaurants, and with my colleagues

708
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 2: we have made the same observation. You see at a

709
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 2: family feast in a Greek restaurant, the grandparents sitting on

710
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 2: the one side, and they are the ones that are

711
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 2: right from Greece decades ago. They speak to their children,

712
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 2: so to your generation in Greek. The children respond to

713
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 2: them in English, and then the next generation, which is

714
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 2: sitting on the other side of the table, speaks just English.

715
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: So you see how in two generations the language gradually disappears. Yeah,

716
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 2: and this is something that both the Greek state and

717
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 2: the Greek Australian community have to do, have to have

718
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 2: to address, and there is from the point of view

719
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 2: of the Greek government, there is an effort to promote

720
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 2: the Greek language through visits to Greece or in the

721
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 2: New Strategy for Greeks Abroad for twenty twenty four twenty

722
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 2: twenty seven, the Greek language, Greek language learning is one

723
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:17,240
Speaker 2: of the key objectives. But both of us these efforts

724
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 2: have to be joined for this to succeed. One could argue,

725
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 2: you could be a devil's advocate, so what does it matter?

726
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 2: Does it matter if Greek Australians speak Greek or not?

727
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 2: Are we moving towards a model which would be more

728
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 2: similar to the American model where Greek migrants arrived earlier. Thus,

729
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,919
Speaker 2: the Greek language has not disappeared, but it's spoken less

730
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 2: than here. Does it really matter? What will our identity be?

731
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 2: We're at the crossroads, I think, because the generation that

732
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 2: came here is biologically going out of the picture. So

733
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 2: we have to see how we see ourselves in the future.

734
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 2: Make a projection. How do I want Greek Australian identity

735
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 2: to look like in twenty thirty years? Does it matter?

736
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 2: And that's a question that the Greek community here must

737
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 2: address to itself. Does it matter or will my greekness,

738
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,240
Speaker 2: my Greek identity be defined by other characteristics my faith,

739
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 2: which is very resilient, it's incredibly resilient, music, Greek dancing,

740
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: Greek food and visits to Greece and a sense of

741
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 2: affinity towards Greece.

742
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: That's very interesting. And because I think all those other

743
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,240
Speaker 1: ones are easier. Yeah, I mean, because learning is bring

744
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: much less effort to eat than to Greeks. Because the Greek,

745
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's everything's different about it. I mean, the

746
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 1: sounds are different about it. That let the writing is

747
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: different about it. It's not like learning say French, where

748
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: you at least the words look the same. It's very

749
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: very different. It's sort of nearly like learning Chinese. For

750
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: some people, you know, they would look at it, Oh

751
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 1: my god, like what is that? And it is. It

752
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 1: is a fairly strict language in that it's there's not

753
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 1: a lot of give or leeway in it. I mean,

754
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, because like you've got to pronounce words correctly,

755
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: and if you don't pronounce them correctly, you could be

756
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: saying another word could have a different meaning. It's and

757
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: just the conjugation of the language, the way it's written

758
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: is different as sort of the way we would speak

759
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: in English. So it's quite as it's quite challenging and

760
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: you and because the way I look at it, though importantly,

761
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: I think it's important perhaps as an older person I'm

762
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: talking about this, but I think it's a very good

763
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 1: cognitive exercise. You know, it's a good challenge to you

764
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: cognitively to test yourself. And if you're going to pick

765
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: something at Langue which to learn to keep your cognition

766
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 1: sharp as you get older, then why not pick the

767
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,240
Speaker 1: language that's closest.

768
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 2: To you exactly.

769
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: That's I mean, that doesn't apply to a young person,

770
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 1: I get it. But if you're someone who.

771
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 2: Does, apply to him as well to our children, because

772
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 2: apparently scientifically has been proven that learning a foreign language

773
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 2: at a young age improves your cognitive ability and it

774
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 2: will probably make you a better student at school. Yes, yeah,

775
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 2: so I think even there, that's another argument we use

776
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 2: when we try to convince people to learn a foreign language,

777
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 2: is it is an investment for the future.

778
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: But if you're a parent saying that, then you better

779
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: learn it.

780
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 2: Yes.

781
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: First, you can't say to your kid, you're going to

782
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: learn this language and you have to speak Greek at

783
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: your children at home. Yeah, and you have to keep

784
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 1: trying it out on them, And so it's it's sort

785
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 1: of thely comes a double edged sword in that you've

786
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: got to convince parents first that this is good for

787
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: you to learn it or to maintain the language for you,

788
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 1: just even if it's not for cultural reasons, just from

789
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 1: a cognitive point of view, it's important for you to

790
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: continue on with this. And that's the way I look

791
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:18,359
Speaker 1: at it anyway. So cognitively it's important for me, and

792
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,800
Speaker 1: therefore I'm if I'm equipped to be able to speak,

793
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 1: and I'm much more able to talk to my grandsons.

794
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 1: They look at me like that, I don't know what, pop,

795
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? They just look at me

796
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: like blank. But it doesn't matter. I still speak to

797
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 1: them just a little bit. Like last weekend on Father's Day,

798
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: my grandkid, my sons and grandsons came up and I'm

799
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 1: speaking to my grandsons like the civial things, like I said,

800
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,759
Speaker 1: like just little kids lead one two years old, just

801
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: getting too used to the sound. But I know I

802
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: can't expect them to my sons, to take them to

803
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: Greek lessons, which I took my sons to. By the way,

804
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:58,840
Speaker 1: I got the you said it earlier. I got the

805
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: Greek teacher from rose Bay. I think it was a

806
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: king Copplo Kambala, one of those mister Angelo, Basil Angelo.

807
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 1: He used to come to my house and take my

808
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: boys with the books in school books. It was actually hilarious,

809
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,760
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, watching my four sons sitting

810
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: there two nights a week learning with learning Greek. Because

811
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:25,720
Speaker 1: they were like from teenager down through to maybe eleven

812
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: years old sitting there with like five year old book

813
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: school book like the Cat and the Apple blah blah

814
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 1: bla blah, you know, like this, And it was hilarious

815
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 1: to me to watch it, but it was very It

816
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 1: was a good exercise for them because I found that

817
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 1: it actually gave them something that bound them together. And

818
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 1: they still have a little bit of a joke about

819
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 1: it with me. And they remember the old man who

820
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 1: used to come. He was the nicest old man of

821
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: all time, Like he was such a good person. It

822
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,879
Speaker 1: was a lovely person. So I think the exercise maybe

823
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: is a bit of romance there for me. But I

824
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: think the exercise is a good exercise and it's great

825
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 1: that you guys are recognizing it at a state level.

826
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: I really do think it's important. I want to ask

827
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:09,320
Speaker 1: you one final thing. The Delphie Forum is coming up. Yeah,

828
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 1: could you explain with the Delphie Forum Normally it's in Delphie,

829
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: But what is the Delphie Forum and why is that important?

830
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 2: It is? From what I know, it is a private initiative, ye,

831
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 2: and its main purpose is to discuss issues of entrepreneurship,

832
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 2: business economy, and it's a more of a policy forum,

833
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 2: a place where people exchange views and prominent people who

834
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 2: have excelled in their field of work exchange views on policy, energy,

835
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 2: a bit of foreign policy as well, and it has

836
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 2: become gradually over the years, very successful and it attracts,

837
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 2: if I may use the term, big names from the

838
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 2: international field. These are ways again to promote also economic

839
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 2: diplomacy and promote Greece abroad. So it's highly commendable.

840
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:14,240
Speaker 1: And it's it's quite interesting that Greece, but through private

841
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: through private organizations, have actually taken upon themselves to whole

842
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: one of these forums like it's it's to me, it's

843
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 1: a big deal, and they've been very successful when they've

844
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 1: been held in Delpha, I know.

845
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 2: But for.

846
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: It to be brought here to Australia, that's pretty cool.

847
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 1: And given that such a large number of Australians have

848
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: Greek descendants, Greek descendants are Greek descendants, I mean, it

849
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: makes sense to hold it here. And I really think

850
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: that that's that sort of thing, is a sort of

851
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: type of event that gets people their blood to get

852
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: warmer towards maybe perhaps being more interested in Greek culture,

853
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 1: but perhaps becoming more interested in the Greek language. It's

854
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:02,280
Speaker 1: just another opportunity for like you, if you were speaking,

855
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 1: to talk to these things and sort of just make

856
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 1: sure you know, we start to think more about our

857
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: background and where we come from.

858
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:20,399
Speaker 2: It also shows the importance of finding new elements which

859
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 2: will unite the Greek community in the sense that the

860
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 2: organizational structure of the Greek community is changing. As I

861
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 2: said earlier, when the Greek migrants arrived, the main unifying

862
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,919
Speaker 2: factor was the village or the town where they came from.

863
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:43,720
Speaker 2: Now it's probably vocation. So if you've got Greek business

864
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 2: leaders organizing themselves well and promoting something like that through

865
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 2: the Delphi Forum, because from what I know some key

866
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 2: Greek business leaders, Greek Australian business leaders are behind this initiative,

867
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 2: this shows that this probably shows what the future can

868
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 2: look like when it comes to the organization of the

869
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 2: Greek community. Again, this is also another objective of the

870
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 2: Greek National Strategy for twenty four to twenty seven, to

871
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 2: see how the Greek communities abroad can organize themselves on

872
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 2: the basis of vacation rather than than paro than dissent,

873
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 2: in the sense that Greek doctors to organize themselves well.

874
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 2: Greek lawyers Greek businessmen.

875
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 1: As opposed to that society exactly.

876
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 2: Exactly, and there are initiatives taking place here and they're ongoing.

877
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 2: Paul Nicolau tries to to unify you know, Greek Greek

878
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 2: business leaders from the business, Yes, from business Sydney and

879
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 2: yeah correct, yeah, yes, he's He's done a few functions

880
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 2: where I've seen that Greek business leaders meet and they

881
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 2: feel an affinity towards each other which is based on

882
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 2: their common professional course or path rather than their descent,

883
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 2: their village or their place. This is the future, I

884
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 2: think for the younger generations of Greek Australians.

885
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,759
Speaker 1: It's a more modern way of looking at things. So,

886
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,439
Speaker 1: in other words, the initiative that you're talking about twenty

887
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:27,240
Speaker 1: four to twenty seven is sort of a modernized version

888
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 1: of keeping the community aware of their let's call it heritage,

889
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: but not based on you know, I may be some disrespect,

890
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:41,319
Speaker 1: but on federalalves like the old school. You know, I'm

891
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 1: an importer. I bring federalves into Australia from Greek. It's

892
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,760
Speaker 1: more about I'm a doctor, I'm a lawyer, I'm an engineer,

893
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: or I'm a hard working business owner. I'm an entrepreneur

894
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 1: et cetera, which is like the Delphine forums. That's what

895
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 1: that's about. It's about recognizing modern connections that relate back to.

896
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,240
Speaker 2: Or at least combining the two, because there are still

897
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 2: many Greek Australians and Greek Americans who who look back

898
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 2: at their ancestry and they're very proud of the of

899
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 2: the region. But at least we should combine it with

900
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 2: something new as well and come up with with with

901
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 2: innovative approaches.

902
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, innovative, I think that's the right word in it

903
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 1: if it should give you a modern outcome which is

904
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: really good, like because you're right, I still got friends

905
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: who still talk about And by the way, this is

906
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: pretty important issue, the importance of high quality olive oil

907
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 1: in terms of our health and in places in Greece

908
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 1: where it may come from a thousand year old wild

909
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: olive trees, and there's young people who go back to

910
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,439
Speaker 1: Greece and do deals with farmers there who have these

911
00:57:55,560 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 1: trees in their in their small fields in Callum which

912
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: is outside of Kalamarta especially but Lake Kalamuter and the

913
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: importance of actually having these organic, high quality olive oils

914
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 1: in our diet, like literally having a spoontrail that with

915
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: some lemon juice every day. But this is a new thing,

916
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 1: and these individual entrepreneurs actually come to me with business

917
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 1: propositions and they go back to they live in Australia,

918
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: They go back to Greece, spend two three months the

919
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: finding places where they can harvest this stuff from and

920
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 1: they import it back to Australia and some of them

921
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 1: are now importing it to other countries as well. So

922
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 1: that's sort of like a modern version of the older generation,

923
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: perhaps the generation before we used to import olive oil

924
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 1: into Australia and fetter, when most Austrainers have heard of

925
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: feta or olive oil, and all of a sudden, for example,

926
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 1: high quality feta is become a big deal in Australia

927
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 1: and it's from a dietary point of view because it

928
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: contains a fat in there or an a mino a

929
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: so called sea fifteen C one to five, which is

930
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 1: one of the things that we lack in our diets

931
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 1: in Western countries because of the push against things like

932
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: butter and cheeses because of cholesterol, and all of a sudden,

933
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: now there's one element that comes out of sheep sheep's

934
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: milk fetter as opposed to goat's milk. The sheep's milk fetter.

935
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 1: There's an element of that particular cheese, which is why

936
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 1: the people in Nikorea are living in what they call

937
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 1: the Blue Zone.

938
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 2: In the Blue Zone, it's one of the four Blue Zones.

939
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 1: Because there's something in their cheese. And I know a

940
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: lot of younger people who are starting to discover this stuff.

941
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 1: But they're of Greek heritage, but they're born here. They're

942
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: probably second generation, but they're going back to Greece and

943
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 1: bringing their stuff back to Australia now and they're getting

944
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 1: really excited about because some of these people they reach

945
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:57,439
Speaker 1: out to me on the various mediums that we all

946
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 1: operate in any last partying things you would like to say,

947
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 1: you know in your role that you would like to

948
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: let my audience know about, because we have a lot

949
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: of great to listen to us.

950
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 2: I've been here two years and something that I hadn't

951
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 2: realized before coming here is the importance of hard work,

952
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 2: the importance of the toil and the struggle that the

953
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 2: first generator, the Greek migrants who came here presented so

954
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 2: that they are so that their children and grandchildren are

955
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 2: so successful today. This drive to succeed, to educate their

956
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 2: children is indeed very impressive because they came here with nothing.

957
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 2: As I said earlier, they did not leave Greece by choice.

958
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 2: The country was ravaged by war civil war, and they

959
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 2: left with one suit case. And it is incredible when

960
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 2: you see these people they come to the Consulate for

961
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 2: various affairs, how tough they are in a good sense

962
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 2: that they worked so hard. You can see that in

963
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 2: their hands sometimes as well. And they were uneducated, and

964
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 2: in one generation or two their descendants are successful businessmen

965
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 2: or scientists, or lawyers or teachers. It shows that Greeks

966
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 2: have this drive to excel, to do well, and this

967
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:45,439
Speaker 2: is very impressive and it's something that perhaps in Greece

968
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 2: we don't realize mainland Greeks the struggle that these people

969
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 2: went through to succeed. When they tell you their stories,

970
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 2: especially when they arrived here, Australia was not as multicultural

971
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 2: as it is today. They had difficulties in everyday life.

972
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 2: They didn't speak the language, society was not as tolerant

973
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 2: as it is today. And yet with perseverance determination, they

974
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 2: worked twelve hours a day at least, and in one

975
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 2: generation they changed the whole course of their family's destiny.

976
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 2: And that is indeed very impressive.

977
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 1: You're talking about my father exactly what him and his

978
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 1: brothers did exactly, and when someone like me sits down

979
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: and observes it, it gives me a great deal of

980
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 1: inspiration and motivation to do the same. I'm not sure

981
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 1: whether after my generation where everybody thinks the same thing,

982
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,920
Speaker 1: but it's an important thing that we should discuss. We

983
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 1: should discuss. I should discuss this with my sons, and

984
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: hopefully I'll be able to discuss with my grandsons too

985
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 1: what my father did and tell the stories that my

986
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 1: father told. Because until my dad started telling me why

987
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: he left Greece or sorry, what was happening in Greece

988
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 1: and he left his parents took him out, of course,

989
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 1: but what was going on in Greece, he never talked

990
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: about it.

991
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:09,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, for most of his because trauma is part of

992
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 2: the equation. Yeah, they don't want to discuss it.

993
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 1: And his stories about how his brother his older brothers

994
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 1: had to go and live in the in the mountain,

995
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: go away from where the village was because they were

996
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 1: considered rebels against the people who occupied their village. And

997
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 1: you know, I'll just tell one final thing. My dad

998
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 1: has gave me a photo. I have this photo, a

999
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 1: photo of his house in rizz has a balcony and

1000
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 1: under the balcony there's a photo of my dad and

1001
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 1: at this stage five of his brothers standing there with

1002
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 1: my grandmother and under the balcony, and there's the lighters

1003
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 1: shining through the slats on the balcony, so you can

1004
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 1: see on the ground. When I went, I went to

1005
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 1: Greece with my dad and my sons, and I said,

1006
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 1: let's stand outside the house and get exactly the same

1007
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 1: photo in the same position with all my boys. I

1008
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 1: even cut their hair like crew cut, same as my dad,

1009
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 1: and all these brothers had their haircut, and I got

1010
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 1: them to stand exactly say spot. When I got the

1011
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 1: photograph developed, I looked at it and I said, you know,

1012
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 1: there's a difference. The son coming through the slats is

1013
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:21,440
Speaker 1: not there. And I said, where's that balcony gone? He said,

1014
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 1: my mother. His mother saw the balcony off. And I said,

1015
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:30,439
Speaker 1: why should that for? He said, because at the time

1016
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:37,400
Speaker 1: the Communists used to hang young rebels from the balcony

1017
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 1: so that they wouldn't hang any more people from the

1018
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 1: balcony she sorted off. And that's the sort of thing

1019
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: that these people left behind. And they're the stories that

1020
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: we should have to tell our kids and to explain

1021
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: why our parents work so hard, why they had this

1022
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 1: You talked about this work ethic.

1023
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 2: And is indeed incredible, and it shows that Greeks are

1024
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 2: a model I think for newly arrived migrants and Australians

1025
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 2: Anglo Australians, if I can use the term, admit that

1026
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 2: because we were with Italians and Yugoslavs at the time

1027
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 2: before the breakdown of Yugoslavia, we were the first who

1028
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 2: arrived here and we managed I think, at least when

1029
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 2: it comes to Greeks, because I know this story better.

1030
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 2: We managed to gain and reap the benefits of both worlds,

1031
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:42,600
Speaker 2: maintain our culture, our heritage, our faith, but at the

1032
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 2: same time grasp the new opportunities that this new land offered.

1033
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:52,840
Speaker 2: And that's why they succeeded. They managed to, you know,

1034
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 2: to get the good, the best of.

1035
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,240
Speaker 1: Both worlds, and largely most people were uneducated. And it's

1036
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 1: interesting that they work this stuff out out or just

1037
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 1: did everybody talk about I don't know how they worked

1038
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 1: it out, but they worked it out.

1039
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 2: Greeks have that they want their children, even if they're uneducated,

1040
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 2: they want to provide the opportunities to their children to

1041
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:18,320
Speaker 2: do well. And in terms of education we are. We're

1042
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 2: social climbers as a nation, especially when we go abroad.

1043
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:29,960
Speaker 2: We're not static. I abhorror racial or racial theories. I'm

1044
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 2: just saying that it's a cultural trait of Greeks. They

1045
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 2: want to excel, they want to do, they want they

1046
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:39,040
Speaker 2: want their children to do very well.

1047
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,800
Speaker 1: It's interesting, it seems to me, especially the ones to

1048
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 1: travel abroad or who live abroad.

1049
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:48,040
Speaker 2: Yes, maybe because they know what poverty is and they

1050
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:52,520
Speaker 2: experienced poverty, whereas my generation in Greece we grew up well,

1051
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:54,440
Speaker 2: we didn't experience poverty.

1052
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and nor is my generation here in Australia, which

1053
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 1: is perhaps the very novel problem that we're going to

1054
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: have to overcome. Well, Joannis Malikuurtis, Yes, thank you very

1055
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 1: much for coming in. It's been great to have a

1056
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 1: chat to you about all things Greek culture, but probably

1057
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 1: importantly to have having in the concert general here for

1058
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 1: New South Wales is one it's privileged, but two it's

1059
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:25,439
Speaker 1: actually quite interesting to hear what you've got to say

1060
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 1: as a modern person, yourself, a well educated modern guy.

1061
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:33,360
Speaker 2: Thanks very much, Thank you, Mark, and thank you, thank

1062
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 2: you for what you're doing, because not all of your

1063
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 2: shows have a Greek dimension to it, but suddenly you

1064
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 2: always promote I think, Greek culture and Greek interests here

1065
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 2: in your own way, and I congratulate and thank you

1066
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 2: for that. Thank you for having the Greek flag always

1067
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 2: in your heart.

1068
01:07:56,600 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 1: Thank you