WEBVTT - The undoing of Moira Deeming

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<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Friday, July seventeen, twenty twenty six. Taxpayers have been

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<v Speaker 1>charged more than eighty thousand dollars to send bureaucrats from

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<v Speaker 1>Intelligence Services, the Defense Forces and the Tax Office to

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<v Speaker 1>a women's leadership summit headlined by former New.

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<v Speaker 2>Zealand Prime Minister Jacinder r Dern.

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<v Speaker 1>Young Australians will be hit much harder by the government's

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<v Speaker 1>reformed capital gains tax than older investors. That's according to

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<v Speaker 1>a new analysis by The Australian. You can check out

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<v Speaker 1>those details live now at The Australian dot com dot au.

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<v Speaker 1>Moira Deeming, the unpredictable Victorian Liberal MP who took down

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<v Speaker 1>her own party leader, has come a cropper in a

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<v Speaker 1>big way and faces the political wilderness. Today we look

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<v Speaker 1>at how this straight talking outsider found herself at odds

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<v Speaker 1>with her own colleagues and where she'll turn next. Our

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<v Speaker 1>Victorian Political editor, Anthony Galloway is here.

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<v Speaker 2>In just a moment, she blazed into politics.

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<v Speaker 3>If the LGBTQI can have their rights, that's fine, but

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<v Speaker 3>why does it involve taking away everybody else's rights.

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<v Speaker 1>And now Moiradeeming seems to be blazing out again. Morademing's

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<v Speaker 1>political future is hanging by a thread this afternoon, as

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<v Speaker 1>the controversial Liberal MP faces being dumped by the party.

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<v Speaker 4>She couldn't have picked the worst issue, I think to

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<v Speaker 4>kind of alienate them over.

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<v Speaker 1>Anthony Galloway is The Australian's Victorian political editor, so this.

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<v Speaker 4>Kind of really came out as a blue but kind

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<v Speaker 4>of confirms for a lot of people. Is she more

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<v Speaker 4>interested in fighting her colleagues than trying to beat labor.

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<v Speaker 1>Victoria's Liberals are moving to dump Deming from their top

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<v Speaker 1>ticket ahead of the forthcoming state election. It all stems

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<v Speaker 1>from Deming's accusation that another MP, Matthew Guy, put her

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<v Speaker 1>in a headlock at a community event. Guy vociferously rejects

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<v Speaker 1>that claim, and the police say there is no evidence

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<v Speaker 1>of anything approaching a criminal assault.

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<v Speaker 3>Mister Guy leans across from as Deeming staff member and

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<v Speaker 3>puts his arm around the MP's neck. She says it

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<v Speaker 3>was a vice like grip. Just minutes before, mister Guy

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<v Speaker 3>posted these photos of the two politicians seemingly happy together.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so this is the grassy old footage of Victorian politics.

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<v Speaker 1>I think we've all watched it on slow mo four

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty times to work out exactly what's going on.

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<v Speaker 1>So Moira Deeming and Matthew Guy were at a community function,

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of thing that MPs find themselves at multiple

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<v Speaker 1>nights of every week.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there were people dancing.

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<v Speaker 1>There was obviously a lot of noise going on at

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<v Speaker 1>this party, and Matthew Guy you can see in the video,

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<v Speaker 1>leans over to say something to Moi redeeming. She subsequently

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<v Speaker 1>accused him of putting her in a headlock. How did

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<v Speaker 1>that allegation actually emerge?

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<v Speaker 4>She went to Jess Wilson, the leader's office, and people

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<v Speaker 4>in the party to make that complaint. At a certain point,

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<v Speaker 4>the advice was given to her by State President Brian

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<v Speaker 4>Locknane that what you're alleging is essentially a physical assault

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<v Speaker 4>under criminal law and she needed to potentially go to

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<v Speaker 4>the police. It wasn't necessarily something that the party could

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<v Speaker 4>work out or investigate itself.

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<v Speaker 5>She did that.

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<v Speaker 4>Police investigated for a number of weeks, including sourcing that

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<v Speaker 4>CCTV that we've all i think at this point seen,

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<v Speaker 4>and police concluded there was no offense. So this could

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<v Speaker 4>have all been over, and Moira could have kept her

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<v Speaker 4>position heading into the election if she had apologized. Matthew

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<v Speaker 4>Guy demanded an apology, as did Jess Wilson. She refused

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<v Speaker 4>to apologize for that, saying she made the complaint or

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<v Speaker 4>allegation in good faith. It's become kind of unclear as

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<v Speaker 4>this saga has gone on, does she still.

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<v Speaker 5>Stand by the allegation or not.

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<v Speaker 4>I can't actually tell you that based on the array

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<v Speaker 4>of statement she's released in recent days and weeks and

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<v Speaker 4>even today, it's still unclear whether she actually stands by it.

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<v Speaker 1>Deeming this week put a proposal to the party that

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<v Speaker 1>she and Matthew Guy, the man she accused of assault,

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<v Speaker 1>could put out a statement agreeing that she made the

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<v Speaker 1>initial complaint in good faith.

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<v Speaker 2>Matthew Guy wasn't keen.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a pretty shocking allegation, and Matthew Guy was outraged.

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<v Speaker 1>He was emanating rage in his public pronouncements on this

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<v Speaker 1>anthony and absolutely denied having done anything wrong.

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<v Speaker 6>My family, name, my reputation is not a political toy.

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<v Speaker 6>No one's is, and so I want and my family

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<v Speaker 6>deserve those apologies, particularly from MOI.

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<v Speaker 1>Redeeming the footage is grainy but it seems to me

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<v Speaker 1>to show him leaning over, touching her on the back

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<v Speaker 1>and speaking to her, and then leaning back to talk

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<v Speaker 1>to someone else, and then the pair of them getting

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<v Speaker 1>on with their evening. How could there have been such

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<v Speaker 1>very different versions of events from that evening.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, Mara Demi has spoken about how she is a

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<v Speaker 4>victim of child sexual abuse and that certain actions by

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<v Speaker 4>men can be interpreted in a way by her that

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<v Speaker 4>may be different to the average person. I mean, as

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<v Speaker 4>best I can describe, that may be a reason why

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<v Speaker 4>she interpreted such an action in a way that all

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<v Speaker 4>of ours, us looking at that footage, can't really come

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<v Speaker 4>to that same conclusion. Her colleagues aren't kind of accusing

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<v Speaker 4>her maliciously, kind of making this up to damage guy.

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<v Speaker 4>They kind of accept that the complaint was genuinely made.

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<v Speaker 4>But the point is to an MP, they kind of

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<v Speaker 4>look at that footage and they say, once looking at

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<v Speaker 4>that footage, she should have apologized.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, if the footage didn't exist, and she says

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<v Speaker 1>she didn't see it until the allegation made its way

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<v Speaker 1>into the media.

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<v Speaker 2>Another thing that she's annoyed about.

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<v Speaker 1>Matthew Guy would have had to live with this accusation

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<v Speaker 1>and would have had to try to defend himself when

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<v Speaker 1>it would have been extremely difficult. I mean, it's hard

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<v Speaker 1>to fight off this kind of allegation, isn't it. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean he was in a very difficult position.

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<v Speaker 4>If there was no CCTV, or if the allegation was

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<v Speaker 4>about an incident in a private kind of corridor where

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<v Speaker 4>there were no witnesses. You're right, this would hang over Matthew,

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<v Speaker 4>you guys head forever. I mean, he may have been

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<v Speaker 4>able to keep his position as a shadow front bencher,

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<v Speaker 4>but it would be he said, she said, scenario where

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<v Speaker 4>he may never in the public's mind and in his

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<v Speaker 4>colleague's mind, I have been able to recover from this.

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<v Speaker 4>So in a way, he was very fortunate. There was

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<v Speaker 4>footage of the incident, which at the very least shows

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<v Speaker 4>no evidence of what Deeming originally alleged with a form

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<v Speaker 4>of headlock.

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<v Speaker 1>Laura Deming's really interesting person. She came into Parliament and

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<v Speaker 1>made a massive splash straight away with a maiden speech

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<v Speaker 1>about women's rights and women's right to have their own spaces,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of inserting herself into a conversation that was already

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<v Speaker 1>pretty hot in Victoria.

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<v Speaker 5>Women and girls are suffering in Victoria because this government

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<v Speaker 5>cannot or will not define what a female is.

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<v Speaker 1>She then got herself entangled into a dispute with former

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<v Speaker 1>Victorian Liberal leader John Persudo.

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<v Speaker 2>What was the sort of essence of that and where

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<v Speaker 2>to end up?

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<v Speaker 5>Yes, so she a bitted let women speak rally.

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<v Speaker 4>She's all about leaving women only spaces through biological women

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<v Speaker 4>and this rally, you know, a topic as you say

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<v Speaker 4>that she was already very passionate about and is kind

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<v Speaker 4>of one of the central reasons why she got into

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<v Speaker 4>politics in the first place. So this was gate crashed

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<v Speaker 4>by far right individuals, including neo Nazis, and John Persudo

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<v Speaker 4>accused deeming of associating with these individuals that gay crashed

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<v Speaker 4>the rally. She sued him after being kicked out of

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<v Speaker 4>the party room. As she was successful in that defamation action.

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<v Speaker 6>I just want to say thank you to everybody who

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<v Speaker 6>stood by with me and yeah, we're just going to

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<v Speaker 6>get out there and continue to get sex base rights

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<v Speaker 6>for women and child safeguards for children.

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<v Speaker 4>So she was really vindicated over that, and through that process,

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<v Speaker 4>I guess, really became a darling of conservatives throughout Australia.

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<v Speaker 4>Really over her stance on that issue. But that's kind

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<v Speaker 4>of one of the reasons why people have turned on

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<v Speaker 4>her because what she's a ledge here is the kind

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<v Speaker 4>of thing that many conservatives around the country, in my estimation,

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<v Speaker 4>would be pretty concerned about a man touching a female

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<v Speaker 4>colleague on the shoulder to whisper something and then being

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<v Speaker 4>alleged to have done something that he didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it goes right to the fears that some men

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<v Speaker 1>have expressed over the past few decades that you can't

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<v Speaker 1>do anything anymore, that you know, interactions with women are

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<v Speaker 1>highly fraught nowadays, and that you might get accused of something.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't often see that actually happening. But this really

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<v Speaker 1>crystallized I think that other big cultural moment that we've had.

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<v Speaker 1>How much has it damaged more redeeming standing within the

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<v Speaker 1>party itself. Even though, as you say, you know her

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<v Speaker 1>colleagues are not openly saying that they think that she

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<v Speaker 1>made this up maliciously immensely.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, a lot of her fans are kind of

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<v Speaker 4>blokes over the age of forty who, as you say,

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<v Speaker 4>concerned about this. We like to think these kinds of

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<v Speaker 4>allegations are never made falsely. You always want to believe

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<v Speaker 4>the victim. So a lot of her kind of fans

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<v Speaker 4>throughout the country, she couldn't have picked the worst issue,

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<v Speaker 4>I think, to kind of alienate them. Over in terms

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<v Speaker 4>of her stance on biological women, she's argued that objective reality,

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<v Speaker 4>biologies all that counts. That just because someone feels they're

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<v Speaker 4>a woman, it doesn't make them so. So you know,

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<v Speaker 4>essentially facts matter. But then on this she is in

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<v Speaker 4>a way arguing her subjective experience, perhaps her past trauma,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, matters more than the objective evidence that we

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<v Speaker 4>can all see on the footage.

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<v Speaker 1>You can see why she's so appealing to those voters.

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<v Speaker 1>You talk about Anthony like she's kind of the classic outsider.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, she's a former school teacher. I think she

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<v Speaker 1>speaks very frankly. She's prepared to go there on issues

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<v Speaker 1>that other politicians find themselves a bit trapped by. Like

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<v Speaker 1>we've seen a generation of politicians unable or unwilling to

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<v Speaker 1>even define what a woman is. You know, she's got

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<v Speaker 1>that kind of paul En hands and ask ability to

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<v Speaker 1>just cut to the chase.

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<v Speaker 2>And speak very frankly.

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<v Speaker 1>It's almost a disarming kind of frankness that she has

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<v Speaker 1>Does that mean that she's kind of not equipped for

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<v Speaker 1>modern politics or is that how she's kind of got

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<v Speaker 1>herself into this situation?

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think?

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<v Speaker 5>I don't think so.

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<v Speaker 4>I would have says that it's more a contradiction of

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<v Speaker 4>everything she stood for. You know, as you say, she's

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<v Speaker 4>a clear communicator, she argues that facts matter, plain language

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<v Speaker 4>is important, and then on this matter she's bringing in.

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<v Speaker 5>All kinds of terms.

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<v Speaker 4>One of the more kind of bizarre elements in recent

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<v Speaker 4>days is she's sought evidence from a martial arts expert

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<v Speaker 4>about this being, as I understand it, some kind of

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<v Speaker 4>mma neck grip that Matthew Guy was doing. I think

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<v Speaker 4>for many people that believe that plain language matters and

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<v Speaker 4>there is an objective reality, what Moira alleged here kind

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<v Speaker 4>of runs counter to a lot of that, and these

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<v Speaker 4>contradictory to where she's had positions on in the past.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up, so will deeming day in Parliament on someone

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<v Speaker 1>else's ticket, A high profile MP who's developing a reputation

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<v Speaker 1>for sort of speaking truth to power and saying unsayable

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<v Speaker 1>things is a bit of a nightmare for any political

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<v Speaker 1>party leader. It was really hard for John Persuto to

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<v Speaker 1>know how to deal with this. In fact, it all

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<v Speaker 1>blew up in his face when he lost the defamation

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<v Speaker 1>action that they were involved in. How is Jess Hill

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<v Speaker 1>handling this?

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<v Speaker 4>She wants her gone from the party room over her

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<v Speaker 4>refusal to apologize to Matthew Guy, who's a front bencher

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<v Speaker 4>going to be a minister if she wins the election

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<v Speaker 4>in November.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, every MP I've spoken to a person is.

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<v Speaker 4>Of that view that it's kind of untenable to make

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<v Speaker 4>an allegation such as this, to go to the police

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<v Speaker 4>and make a criminal complaint and then when it's found

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<v Speaker 4>that there's no evidence of what you're alleging, to not

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<v Speaker 4>apologize to an MP, they kind of all want to

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<v Speaker 4>go on. And Jess Wilson's of that view as well.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the reasons some conservatives liked Murraw Deeming is

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<v Speaker 1>that she kind of seemed like the hope of the side.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, the Victorian Liberals have been pretty moribund for

0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.200
<v Speaker 1>a while now. They don't seem to be able to

0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.840
<v Speaker 1>make much of a dent in labor, despite Labour's manifest

0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:33.120
<v Speaker 1>failings in Victoria over the years. If this is the

0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.120
<v Speaker 1>end of the Deeming kind of chapter in the Victorian

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.120
<v Speaker 1>Liberals history. Where does that leave the party in relation

0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:40.079
<v Speaker 1>to that November election.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's a great question.

0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.280
<v Speaker 4>I mean, she was no doubt an asset, especially among

0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:49.479
<v Speaker 4>the Bays where people always questioned her utility was it's undeniable.

0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.960
<v Speaker 4>She has lots of fans throughout the country, lots of

0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:57.080
<v Speaker 4>Conservative fans, but she represents the western metropolitan region of

0:13:57.120 --> 0:13:59.480
<v Speaker 4>Melbourne in the Upper House and that's a part of

0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:02.520
<v Speaker 4>Melbourne the Liberals really don't have a big footprint in.

0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:05.840
<v Speaker 4>They don't have many Lower House seats, if at all

0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.880
<v Speaker 4>any and did she talk enough about the West of

0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:13.400
<v Speaker 4>Melbourne and the lack of infrastructure and services that the

0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:17.679
<v Speaker 4>Andrews Allen governments have kind of neglected that area of Melbourne.

0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.960
<v Speaker 4>She was started after a pre selection drama earlier this

0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.640
<v Speaker 4>year where she lost the pre selection and then her

0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.920
<v Speaker 4>opponent was disendorsed, so she got it back. She did

0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.400
<v Speaker 4>start to kind of really focus on Western Melbourne issues

0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:32.320
<v Speaker 4>and it seemed like she had really got on board

0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.160
<v Speaker 4>with the effort to win the election in November. So

0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:38.040
<v Speaker 4>this kind of really came out of the blue, but

0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.480
<v Speaker 4>kind of confirmed for a lot of people. Or is

0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:45.120
<v Speaker 4>she more interested in fighting her colleagues than trying to

0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:47.920
<v Speaker 4>beat labor. I guess the criticism in a nutshal ofvre

0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:52.200
<v Speaker 4>is did she ever layer glove on labor? Did she

0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:57.040
<v Speaker 4>ever really make life difficult for this labor government or

0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:59.960
<v Speaker 4>did she only ever make life difficult for her liberal colleagues.

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<v Speaker 2>Is there a risk now?

0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.160
<v Speaker 1>Is there a downside risk for the Liberals now that

0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:09.000
<v Speaker 1>she goes to one nation or that she becomes successful independent.

0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.040
<v Speaker 4>Well not to one nation, because Pauline Hansen has said

0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:16.480
<v Speaker 4>she doesn't want her over her allegation and refusal to apologize,

0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:18.960
<v Speaker 4>So that really probably let the Liberal Party off the hook.

0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:21.120
<v Speaker 4>When they heard that, they thought, oh, well, at least

0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:23.440
<v Speaker 4>she's not going to make life difficult for us in

0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.400
<v Speaker 4>my nation. You know, everyone thinks my nation's going to

0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.400
<v Speaker 4>win some seats and it's going to be a real

0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.920
<v Speaker 4>player at the election, So that's really helped. She could

0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.360
<v Speaker 4>join another minority party, or she could run as an independent,

0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.480
<v Speaker 4>but I think that rejection from Hanson will kind of

0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.440
<v Speaker 4>be decisive. But you know, she's got a number of

0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:45.320
<v Speaker 4>months left in Parliament until the election. She could say

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.520
<v Speaker 4>all kinds of things under parliamentary privilege, make all kinds

0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:49.680
<v Speaker 4>of allegations if she wanted to do.

0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:51.280
<v Speaker 5>I'm not accusing her of planning that.

0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:53.040
<v Speaker 4>I have no line of sight on that, but those

0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.360
<v Speaker 4>are the kinds of things that you know, when you've

0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.600
<v Speaker 4>got a very cranky member that you've disendorsed, could do

0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:00.560
<v Speaker 4>in their final months Parliament.

0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm sure the journals will be hoping she yields many,

0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.240
<v Speaker 1>many more stories before she leaves politics.

0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:06.680
<v Speaker 2>Anthony.

0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:08.720
<v Speaker 1>If she ever does so, I'm sure it won't be

0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:10.280
<v Speaker 1>the last time we speak about Moray Deeming.

0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:11.160
<v Speaker 2>Thanks so much for your time.

0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:11.880
<v Speaker 5>Thank you.

0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:24.720
<v Speaker 1>Anthony Galloway is The Australian's Victorian political editor. You can

0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:27.880
<v Speaker 1>check out all his scoops anytime at the Australian dot

0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:28.760
<v Speaker 1>com dot au