1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: This podcast is recorded on gadigal Land, Always was, always 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: will be Aboriginal Land. Hey Chicks, I'm sal and I'm 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: out and this is two Broke Chicks, the show that 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: shares life lessons and tips to help make you. 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 2: Rich in life. 6 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 3: And welcome back to the show. 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 4: The wonderful, amazing, brave, talented, intelligent, hot, funny. 8 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 2: Do I even need to say anymore? 9 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 3: Janna ferguson Friend of the Pod. 10 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 2: We are so excited to have you on because it's. 11 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 3: Been a long time. Two I think it's been a year. 12 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 3: I think it was a year. That's crazy. 13 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, not that we need an excuse to have you 14 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 4: on ever, But it's a very special occasion because this 15 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 4: week you release your new book, Taboo. 16 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 3: It's very exciting. It came out on Tuesday of this week. 17 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 3: It's the if you see it in sols of the 18 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 3: bright pink book with the red X on it. 19 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: It's sexy. 20 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 3: It's sexy. I mean it's supposed to send out I 21 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 3: think it does that. But it's really sex dating relationships, 22 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 3: like all the topics that women don't talk about but should. 23 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 4: And we're going to get into how to have taboo 24 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 4: conversations and some of those topics. But before we get 25 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 4: into the juicy stuff, we start with a life lesson 26 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 4: of the week. 27 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: So, as our guest of honor, would you like to 28 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 2: kick us off? 29 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 3: I think, like in true taboo form, the whole idea 30 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 3: of the book and what I'm trying to channel this 31 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 3: week is still this idea that we all have so 32 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 3: much shame and in order to just mental that, like 33 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 3: you have to use vulnerability. And I feel like this 34 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 3: week it's kind of interesting, like my professional life and 35 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 3: personal life really reflect what's happening in the book as well, 36 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 3: like A, and now Trump has just been elected president 37 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 3: in the US, and I think we're all scared and 38 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 3: frightened and like. 39 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 2: Just quite disillusioned angry. 40 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, and we kind of have to live in that 41 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 3: fear and look at the feelings that we have around 42 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 3: shame towards our bodies, towards sex and dating, towards how 43 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 3: we live our lives generally, and realize that we have 44 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 3: to lead into that vulnerability and push forward in order 45 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 3: to retain like that sliver of hope. 46 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: I love being vulnerable. Yeah, It's very easy to kind 47 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: of be a goofy girl. And I love when you 48 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: kind of sit with someone and you just will randomly 49 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: give them a really genuine compliment. 50 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: Like this morning, I. 51 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: Just texted my boyfriend just Edible, and I send him 52 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: like maybe a kind of long age text message, just 53 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: telling him how happy I am and how him and 54 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: how like even just sleeping at yours last night, I 55 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: missed him so much, Or like when we went for 56 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: a sleepover once and I just turned to you and 57 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm having so much fun with you. 58 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 2: Thank you, and you like it. 59 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: Like I just love those little moments where you can 60 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: be a bit more. Obviously those are very positive, but they. 61 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 3: Are a vulnerable moment because it can be uncomfortable to 62 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 3: like deliver reflection and have intimacy. Right, Yeah, those are 63 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 3: just different forms of that. There's negative and positive layers 64 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 3: of vulnerability. Yeah. 65 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: I think the moments when you have like a really 66 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: positive response to vulnerability, whether or not it's positive or negative, 67 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: in those moments that you are being vulnerable, it's just 68 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: the best. 69 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 3: Yes, everyone tell. 70 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: Everyone you love them, cake and everyone. Honest, I'm getting 71 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: my period so and that this is perfect timing. 72 00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: Okay, what's yours, Sally Valley? Mine is? 73 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 4: Last night I was having a conversation with some friends 74 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 4: and we had all we're all sort of in like 75 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 4: long term relationships, I guess, and one of them was like, oh, 76 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 4: do you mind if I ask you. 77 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: How's the intimacy stilling your relationship? 78 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 4: And I was like, Oh, to be honest, like it 79 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 4: hasn't really changed too much, Like I feel like it's 80 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 4: been pretty consistent over the course of the relationship, but 81 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 4: like it's great. I was like, I feel like we 82 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 4: have really good chemistry together. And the inference from that 83 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 4: was like, oh, well, you guys have been together for 84 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 4: sixteen years, so surely you don't sleep together anymore, or 85 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 4: you don't have intimacy, or it's moved more into like 86 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 4: a friendship. 87 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 3: It's like monotonous, or it's like there's something boring about it. 88 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 3: That's the assumption from a lot of people. 89 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, which is like fine, But I also I'm like, 90 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 4: I feel like we need to shake that up because 91 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 4: I think that, of course, people's relationships go through different 92 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 4: phases and they ebb and flow, and you're not always 93 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 4: going to be wanting to like jump each other's bones 94 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 4: twenty four to seven, or maybe that was never the case, 95 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 4: but I think a lot of people like, oh, well, 96 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 4: i've been with somebody for three years. That means that 97 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 4: it's completely normal if we're not intimate either whether it's 98 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 4: physical or even emotional. And people just expect that your 99 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 4: relationship will go into this place where you sort of 100 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 4: just end up being friends. 101 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: And that's like a bit of an assumption that we 102 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 2: all have. 103 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 4: And it just kind of like sparks something in my 104 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 4: brain last night that I was like, I actually have 105 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 4: had this conversation with quite a few people and they're 106 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 4: always really surprised. 107 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: I feel like we need to question that more. 108 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 4: I know that not every relationship is the same, not 109 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,239 Speaker 4: everybody's love languages are the same, but just think about 110 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 4: like what you want out of a relationship, and you 111 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 4: don't have to get to that three or five year 112 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 4: mark and then be like okay, cool, we just like. 113 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 2: Say hi to each other and give each other a 114 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 2: kiss on the cheek. 115 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 4: If you want more than that, yeah, I think it's 116 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 4: just like reminding yourself to tune into what you want 117 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 4: from a relationship, and if you feel like you're not 118 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 4: getting that, question that and see if. 119 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 2: There's something you can do, because I think, yeah, a 120 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 2: lot of us take that for granted. 121 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, cuddles, bagels and presents, Yes, yeah, that's what I mean. 122 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: And my cat and my kids. Okay, what's yours? 123 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 3: Okay? 124 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: Mine? 125 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: Oh god, I watched a movie this week and it 126 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: fucking rocked me, Like it rocked me to my core. 127 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 3: I was crying. 128 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: No exaggeration. I know I'm an exaggerator, but this isn't one. 129 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: For like twenty minutes after this movie, my mom was 130 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: trying to call me just to talk, and I was like, 131 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: I can't talk right now. 132 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 2: It's got Aubrey Plaza. 133 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: I am obsessed with her in it, and it's called 134 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: My Old Ass, And I won't give too much away, 135 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: but basically, the main character, who is younger, takes shrooms 136 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: and then meets her older version of herself and it's 137 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: about like the guy, I'm gonna start crying. So there's 138 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: one point in the movie that a character says, do 139 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: you remember the last time you went out with friends 140 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: as a kid and just played pretend the whole day? 141 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: And another character says like, yeah, I remember doing that 142 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: a lot, And then the other character I'm not going 143 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: to say names, says yeah, but do you remember the 144 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: very very last time you ever did it. 145 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 2: You're going to start crying now, And. 146 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: She says no, and he says, isn't that sad? You know, 147 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: to think there was a time when you were out 148 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: biking around with your friends, pretending you were getting chased 149 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: by zombies. You were just all dirty and sweaty and 150 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: having the best time, and then you went home and 151 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: parked your bike in the garage and went to bed, 152 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: not realizing that that was the last time you were 153 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: ever ever going to do that. And I just like, 154 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: I like this movie at that point in like wall 155 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: around there, because then I was trying to think. I 156 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,919 Speaker 1: was trying to think about the very last time I 157 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: played pretend, and I was like trying to make myself 158 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: feel better being like you and soal like playing it's 159 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: like all the time, like we'll just do shit, but 160 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: it's like, truly, there is always going to be a 161 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: time that that's the last time you ever do that. 162 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: It's the last morning that you walk into somewhere used 163 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: to work, or it's the last time you cook dinner 164 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: in like your very first apartment. That's probably an absolute 165 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: fucking shitty, but you know there's going to be the 166 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: last time you cook dinner there and just how like 167 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: every little moment is like the first and last time 168 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: you get to do. 169 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 2: Something, and I just I'm going to start crying again. 170 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: But it was just the best movie and I want 171 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: everyone to go and watch it and everyone to cry and. 172 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 4: Make me feel better about I'm going to watch it 173 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 4: this weekend. 174 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like you're scared. 175 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: Fair warning, don't watch it when you get it, you period. 176 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: All right, let's get into the episode is from me. 177 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: Don't make promises, I know, hattah. 178 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 2: We wanted to start it off by asking why do we. 179 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 4: Need to have taboo conversations in our twenties or any age. 180 00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 3: I guess it's like what is a taboo? Right, Like, 181 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 3: the taboo is a subject or a topic or anything 182 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 3: of the sort that society is deemed like untouchable. You're 183 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 3: not supposed to bring it up. If you bring it up, 184 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 3: you're the problem. But think about that, like in the 185 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 3: context of okay, when a guy at a party makes 186 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 3: a fucked comment, the girl who often goes that's not on. 187 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 3: She's the taboo. 188 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 2: She's causing a druma or she is. 189 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 3: Creating a ssue because taboo creates discomfort, right, Because it's 190 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 3: like a sore spot. It's like a wound that society 191 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 3: refuses to pick at even though it's not healing. So 192 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 3: when we think about it like that, the reason we 193 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 3: should talk about taboos is because it's never the topic 194 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 3: that's the problem. It's the fact that we're saying in 195 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 3: a patriarchal society, men don't want us to talk about 196 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 3: that that doesn't suit the dominant narrative. So taboo subjects 197 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 3: are like pain during sex, or issues with consent, or 198 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 3: beauty standards or female friendship, and like is gossip bad? 199 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 3: Like see these are on the topics in the book 200 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 3: that I'm unpacking because I'm like, why are we so 201 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 3: uncomfortable touching this? If you touch it, it actually allows 202 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 3: it to heal, but until we deal with that, it's 203 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 3: going to be infected. It's like, very much my view 204 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:02,719 Speaker 3: about it taboo, right. 205 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 4: I love that I think it gives it like such 206 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 4: a visual thing, makes it more of a tangible idea 207 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 4: and understanding why we do need to talk about it 208 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 4: because it seems like it would be just easier not to. 209 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,479 Speaker 3: Of course, but it's festering. 210 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it can. 211 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: Be quite intimidating and quite uncomfortable, and that is probably 212 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 1: a bit of the coping mechanism. I know, like there's 213 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: been situations where I've felt a certain way or maybe 214 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: I'm not like confident enough to voice it because I 215 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: think I get and a lot of people would probably 216 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: relate to this, But it's really nerve racking as well 217 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: to have the confidence to voice your taboo opinions or 218 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: to maybe like argue against something that you truly believe 219 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: in that maybe goes against your values. So what are 220 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 1: your tips on how you can have more taboo conversations 221 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: but increase your comfort and confidence level alongside them. 222 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 3: This is the thing I'm not going to say to someone. Yeah, 223 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 3: that next party where you're the plus one and don't 224 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 3: know a single person, I have a fucking massive go 225 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 3: at that guy, Like that's so awful. 226 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 2: But I'm kind of into that even go in and fuck. 227 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 3: Shit, if you're that girl who's like, I mean, the 228 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 3: girl that does that, I'm always like, go off, and 229 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 3: I'll usually go up to them and be like I'm 230 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 3: with you, or I'll try and say something in the moment. 231 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 3: But being the first person to call it out is 232 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 3: so hard because you are disrupting the status Cohen, and 233 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 3: again you are treated like the problem. I think the 234 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 3: thing is like, there's always a way to do things 235 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 3: where you don't have to put yourself in an unsafe situation. 236 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 3: It might not be that you address the situation directly 237 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 3: in the moment in front of a crowd or in 238 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 3: front of a huge group of people. You might talk 239 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 3: to the person lady, You might talk to the person 240 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 3: hosting the event about their comments. You might redirect if 241 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 3: you're feeling uncomfortable at like head on confrontation. But also 242 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 3: there's different ways to approach to boo conversations, which is, Oh, 243 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 3: I've always felt a bit weird about sex or the 244 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 3: concept of virginity or STIs or something. I'm going to 245 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 3: talk with my friends about an experience i had because 246 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 3: I think it's about cracking it open that first time. 247 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 3: There's always a way, whether it's your girlfriends. And I'm 248 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 3: so grateful that I don't know this, but like myself 249 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 3: in my experience, my friends and I talk about everything, 250 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 3: and I know a lot of women in friendship groups do, 251 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 3: but I still know my mom and like my grandma. 252 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 3: They wouldn't have friendship groups that talk about vibrators. They wouldn't, right, 253 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 3: And I think by opening it up and being offering 254 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 3: the conversation, yes, some people might want to be like, 255 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 3: that's my privacy, that's my boundary, absolutely, But I think 256 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 3: it's about making yourself available to people. Like a form 257 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 3: of cracking a taboo and dismantling shame is saying like, 258 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 3: oh I got this vibrat blah blah blah. If everyone's 259 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 3: off it, they don't want to talk about it, you're 260 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 3: not going to keep going and like pushing on them, right, 261 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 3: But I think you're kind of offering a new style 262 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 3: of friendship with a new layer and making that available 263 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 3: to people in a year, in three years. Like I 264 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 3: have a sister, my younger sisters, seven years younger than me. 265 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 3: She just turned nineteen yesterday, Happy birthday, Kate, and yeah 266 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 3: and shout out Kate. And she got her first vibrator 267 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 3: when she was sixteen. She ordered for herself and she 268 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 3: like loved that, held it up to the FaceTime and 269 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 3: she was like, listen to all the settings on FaceTime. 270 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 3: And yet I was twenty one, like, oh, should I 271 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 3: get one online? Like freaked out by the concept, Like 272 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 3: she was four years younger than me because We've had 273 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 3: so many conversations about this. By making it like you 274 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 3: can ring your sister and talk about this, it changed 275 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 3: her perspective. So that is why it's important and how 276 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 3: we can like do it without being confrontational and creating 277 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:20,599 Speaker 3: conflict necessarily. 278 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: That's so true because I remember when we both worked 279 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,719 Speaker 1: at our old job and I was working as a 280 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: shopping journalist and my editor got sent a sex toy 281 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: and I'd never tried a sex toy before, and I 282 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: think I was maybe about twenty one or twenty. 283 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 3: Two at this point. 284 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: Like people were like laughing and it was like oh 285 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 1: to hear, and I like was like secretly like wanting it, yeah, 286 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,199 Speaker 1: but I wasn't like I couldn't go, yeah. 287 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 3: I'll take it and if at works, so you feel weird, 288 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 3: right right. 289 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: So I just was like to her, I was like yeah, 290 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: like oh, and I was so shy. And then there 291 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: was another thing and it was like, oh, yeah, write 292 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 1: this article about sex toys and I was like, oh, 293 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. 294 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 3: I've never tried one. 295 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. Where it's like you fast forward to now I'm 296 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: like literally on air explaining the Suki Suki cltorals of 297 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:07,839 Speaker 1: a womanizer and I'm like, it is when you kind 298 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: of crack it open, it will pull apart and open. 299 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 3: Art kind of like a flower. Yes, but what in. 300 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: That example, if you do introduce a taboo topic like 301 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: say you know, you do go and you're like, look, 302 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: I got this vibrator and you aren't met by like 303 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: openness from other people, it would be really hard to 304 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: not pull away from being open again. Like if you 305 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: did go and try to open up a taboo conversation 306 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: and then you're met with like a wall, how do 307 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: you not take that as a I'm never going to 308 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: do that again. 309 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 3: I think it's hard because also often it's like, Okay, 310 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 3: it's not to say that you shouldn't be in those 311 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 3: friendships or anything, but sometimes it's that you need in 312 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 3: your group. You need and not to eliminate one and 313 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 3: start another. You need to have different friendships different purposes. 314 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 3: Like some friendships are those coffee, let's talk about work. 315 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 3: Others are let's have a wine and I'm going to 316 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 3: talk about this guy I had sex with last week 317 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 3: and this specific smell or this specific texture or the 318 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 3: specific strange thing that happened and get your advice on. 319 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 3: And I mean that like different, I'm not going to 320 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 3: And I always think of it as like a personality pie, 321 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 3: Like when you're at work, what's your percentage? And like 322 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 3: what slice do you give different people in your life? 323 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 3: Like at work, are you seventy percent? Are you six percent? 324 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 3: What do you want from your workplace? And friendships? And 325 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 3: are you ever one hundred percent with anyone on just yourself? 326 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: Like I always the pie of your personality pie do 327 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: you give people? 328 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 3: And you don't need to give everyone one hundred percent, right, 329 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 3: and you don't need to give specific friendships one hundred percent, 330 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 3: But I think you need to have friendships where you're 331 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 3: edging that eighty to ninety percent range, where you're like, 332 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 3: I can go to you as a trusted person in 333 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 3: my life who isn't going to judge me, but it's 334 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 3: gonna have a frank conversation with me about something crazy, 335 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 3: something fun, something sexy. And so it's not about cracking 336 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 3: open everyone and going and being like look at this 337 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 3: literal vibrator, but about finding the right people and offering 338 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 3: to the closed off people that you're available when they're 339 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 3: ready to talk about it. 340 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: Like that's that's also a good thing to remind ourselves 341 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: to make sure that we're ensuring that the people that 342 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: are around us know that we're open to and like 343 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: wear a safe space to have taboo conversations, that like, 344 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: your friends can come to you and have that conversation 345 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: with you if they need it. 346 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, but we wanted to ask you. 347 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: Obviously share a lot of taboo opinions in the book, 348 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: but do you have a favorite? 349 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 3: Okay, the one I know I'm going to cop so 350 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 3: much heat for, But I don't mean this against people. 351 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 3: I just think it's like a broader concern I have 352 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 3: is in the book. There's one that I briefly mentioned, 353 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 3: which is that I find it a bit odd when 354 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 3: women propose to their male partners. Oh so robots in 355 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 3: the book, And the reason is I think it's very 356 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 3: progressive and challenging gender norms. Completely agree, but I often 357 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 3: worry because sometimes when we make progress in the feminist movement, 358 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 3: often it's like women taking on more stuff. And when 359 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 3: it comes to women proposing to men, I'm like, have 360 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 3: have you challenged gender norms? Or is it also that 361 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 3: you're taking something off a man's plate that he's expected 362 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 3: to be vulnerable during to plan to get down on 363 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 3: one knee, like this entire context of like the and 364 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 3: I don't want to uphold tradition, but I want to say, like, 365 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 3: is this just something else you're doing alongside planning the 366 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 3: wedding and like executing, you know, booking everything, preparing the dress, 367 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 3: preparing his outfit, planning your whole life and carrying that 368 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 3: mental and emotional labor. Can we not expect that they 369 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 3: do that? Are we just taking the one thing off 370 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 3: their plate? And that's not to say that that's every couple. 371 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 3: It's just like a broader thing where sometimes people say 372 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 3: I'm having a marriage, but I'm doing differently, and it's 373 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 3: like the difference is, you know, my mum and dad 374 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 3: are walking me down the aisle. I'm like, that's not 375 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 3: that different. That's and so I think with the I 376 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 3: think I always just get a bit confused when I 377 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 3: see a woman posing to a man because I'm like, 378 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 3: but you just stopped him from being the one thing 379 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 3: we expected of him. And that's my worry. That's always 380 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,359 Speaker 3: my worry a bit, and I think that's very controversial, 381 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 3: but it's my big one. 382 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: I think the worry that you're saying that was very valid. 383 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 3: And some of my friends have been the ones to propose, 384 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 3: and I think it's so beautiful. I also know the men, 385 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 3: and I know that they are equally planning and doing 386 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 3: all those I think for a lot of women, I'm 387 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 3: just like, don't do that as like this most feminist thing. 388 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 3: If he's not picking up the slack as well. 389 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so true. 390 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 4: We were having like a similar conversation this morning when 391 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 4: we were talking. 392 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 2: About people who choose to stay at home. 393 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: We put up a story box on Instagram for people 394 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: to send in their taboo opinions. 395 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 2: But one of them was. 396 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: Is it bad that I would love to stay at home, 397 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 1: cook and clean and not work. 398 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 3: Oh I can give my response to that. 399 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, And we were saying that, like, I feel like 400 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 4: this is an example of that that being, you know, 401 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 4: having the choice to pursue your career is an incredible 402 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 4: leap for women when we look through history, and I'm 403 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 4: so glad that we've all had that opportunity. 404 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 2: But also we still have all of the. 405 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 4: Emotional labor at home, unpaid labor at home in. 406 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 2: A lot of instances. 407 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: So it's like cool now with my double cooking and 408 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: cleaning at home, yeah, and working. 409 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 2: Now because it's not like one left. Yeah, you're just 410 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 2: adding more. 411 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 3: I basically write a whole chapter in my book about this, 412 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 3: because when I was like eighteen or nineteen, I remember 413 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 3: I left a small town. I'm from Orange and New 414 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 3: South Wales and a lot of the girls in my 415 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 3: year at school has had baby straight away, and I 416 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 3: remember calling my mum from UNI and being like, what 417 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 3: the fuck, Like we have this opportunity now to go 418 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 3: traveling and study and like be educated and work, Like 419 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 3: why would they do that? And my mom was like, 420 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 3: you're undervaluing motherhood and I it really raddled me at 421 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 3: the time when I was about nineteen, and now I 422 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 3: look back on it, and I realized that it's not 423 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 3: this feminist thing to be like I'm going to do everything. 424 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 3: The failure of feminism has been getting women into the 425 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 3: workforce but not getting men out of it. And so 426 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 3: until we make parenting truly equal, what we're doing is 427 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 3: saying to women who cook, clean and parent and take 428 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 3: on caring responsibilities in the mental load, that's not worth money. 429 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 3: But actually the problem is that we don't value that 430 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 3: as work, and we only value corporate structures trades like 431 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 3: actual formal employment as work. We don't value volunteering, we 432 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 3: don't like caring roles. That's the issue. So no, that 433 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 3: person that's not a top a pece, that's totally valid. 434 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: But you know what I think is funny in a 435 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: not funny way, is that that gets branded as like 436 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: the woman who does it all, she's a mother, a CEO, 437 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: and an entrepreneur. 438 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 4: The girls she Yeah, okay, so we've covered I guess, 439 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:21,479 Speaker 4: how to bring up taboo or controversial conversations with people. 440 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 4: But what do you do if you're in a relationship 441 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 4: or a friendship, or you're speaking with someone that you 442 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 4: know and they have a taboo opinion or controversial opinion 443 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 4: that you don't align with? 444 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 2: How do you confront that? 445 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 4: And also can you separate a person from their controversial opinion? 446 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 3: It's like the classic can you date some on the 447 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 3: other side of politics? Question? 448 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 1: Right? 449 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 3: And it depends on what the opinion is. Of course, 450 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 3: I'm not going to be like anyone who disagrees you're done. 451 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 3: You just can't live like that, right, what KFC chips 452 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 3: and macas chips, and like whether you would vote for 453 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 3: Trump or not, Like there's a spectrum of opinions and 454 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 3: like what's valid and what's not right and what's serious 455 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 3: and what's not. I think when it comes to to 456 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 3: boo opinions, that was a great example what we're just 457 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 3: talking about about, like this willingness to be at home 458 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 3: and not have to work, or like I can see 459 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 3: that and disagree with that life plan and go. But 460 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 3: I really understand why I was previously wrong. I understand 461 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 3: why I judged you. I understand what was wrong with that. 462 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 3: I understand that I fundamentally undervalued and didn't see you 463 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 3: in that. Now, I think, depending on what the opinion 464 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 3: is and what the taboo is, I'm not going to 465 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 3: align with offense, with hatred, with bigotry. But when we're 466 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 3: talking about opinions, I think, as a white woman with 467 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 3: a lot of privilege, it is also my job that 468 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 3: if my dad or my mom or my grandparents says 469 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 3: a taboo opinion in inverted quotations, which is actually just 470 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 3: a fucked opinion, that I have an opportunity to go. 471 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 3: Why do you think that way? What led you to 472 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 3: that belief? Why are you so tied to this like stereotyping, 473 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 3: this stigma, this view that you have, and not that 474 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 3: I'm going to convince them, but that I'm going to say, like, oh, well, 475 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 3: my experience is this, and I'm happy to have this 476 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 3: conversation with you seven times in the hopes that one 477 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 3: day you won't project that onto someone else and that 478 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 3: I can intervene here and offer an alternative because it's 479 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 3: not that helpful. And I'm not saying people can't cut off, 480 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 3: can't got no contact, or can't cut off relatives or 481 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 3: someone with horrific opinions, but that I do see it 482 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 3: as my work to want to spend the time because 483 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 3: these are the conversations we have to make sure we 484 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 3: all progress and we don't end up so divided that 485 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 3: we turn around and go, I can't believe the world 486 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,719 Speaker 3: is sitting like this right now, and I've shut out 487 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 3: anyone who thought a different way to me. 488 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 1: I love that as well, and I feel like it 489 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: relates to what you spoke about in back your first 490 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: book as well, about how you approach disagreements, and it's 491 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 1: more about asking questions to understand why they think that way, 492 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: with not the goal to convince them to agree with you, 493 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:55,479 Speaker 1: but maybe to move even ten percent more towards a 494 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: better understanding. 495 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 3: That's the thing. The goal is to understand someone else 496 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 3: and go, oh, they made me create think about and 497 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 3: strengthen my point or change my point. Like you have 498 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 3: to be open to changing your mind too, just like 499 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 3: with the moment. 500 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: Just being like them if you're like, no, I'm not 501 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: listening to you, I'm not agreeing with anything you have 502 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: to say. I'm right, you're wrong, You're exactly you're mirroring 503 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: each other. 504 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 3: But also emotionally, for me, when I listen to an 505 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 3: opinion that's like that, I actually feel pity for the 506 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,719 Speaker 3: person that's holding the opinion, because I'm like, it is 507 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 3: sad that you live in a world where the media 508 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 3: and lots of politicians have convinced you to feel this 509 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 3: scared of other ideas. And I am here. I don't 510 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 3: want other people to have to do that work. What 511 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 3: I am willing to sit here and go this is 512 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,479 Speaker 3: why that's not okay? Or tell me more so that 513 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 3: we can find some common ground here, Like that's so important. 514 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've said that, and that's been a bit of 515 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: a theme this year that people who have curiosity and 516 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: the eagerness to understand are a lot more richer than 517 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: people that believe they know everything. 518 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's. 519 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: A lot scarier probably to be like, I am not 520 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: one hundred percentual that I know this, but I'm like 521 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: interested to understand more. But I do believe in certain 522 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: values that I have. Rather than being like, no, I 523 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: know this, you're wrong, I'm ready. 524 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 3: Intelligence is knowing what you don't know, right. 525 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 1: And I think that's something that it probably takes a 526 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: little while to get to because at first I was 527 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: so scared of like being wrong or not knowing. And 528 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: that's why you don't have taboo conversations because you're like, fuck, 529 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: am I gonna look stupid? Yeah? 530 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 3: Or am I going to be embarrassed? Yeah? 531 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 4: And in twenty twenty four, like we're all expected to 532 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 4: have all of the information, and if you give any 533 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 4: sort of opinion and you've missed one one. 534 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 3: Statistic, one qualifier thing. 535 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 4: You're like not like your argument is completely void? Now yeah, yeah, 536 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 4: and I think people are scared of that. Yes. 537 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: Well yeah, so speaking of by which was again gives 538 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 1: you said by it back was more cheek, whereas taboo 539 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: is more you yes, which I just think is so exciting. Yeah, 540 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: buy back was incredible, and so is taboo. But I 541 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,479 Speaker 1: want to understand what that means. 542 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 3: It made so much sense to me when I was 543 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 3: writing them and promoting them, because people were asking what 544 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 3: the difference was, and I was like, well, cheek media 545 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 3: is like my company. It's really where I talk about, 546 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 3: like the legal system, the political system, feminism, media, how 547 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 3: to understand big concepts and talk about them right. But 548 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 3: taboo is like coming to me personally and saying, like, 549 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 3: what have been my experiences of pleasure, of painful sex, 550 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 3: of dating, of female friendship, of being someone on social 551 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 3: media in the public eye, but also of like my 552 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 3: family and the childhood and the context has led me 553 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,959 Speaker 3: to have the views I have now and how that 554 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 3: relates to like my experiences like health systems, of the 555 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 3: ideas around like how my grandmother's introduced me to like 556 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 3: feminism in different ways that I didn't understand until now. 557 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 3: Like you know, these experiences of sex and relationships define 558 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 3: how I approach my day to day, and I think, 559 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 3: with bite back, actually proud of it what it taught people. 560 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 3: But people seem to really want to know how I 561 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 3: got here and what my personal experiences are. And this 562 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 3: is really scary because it is like quite traumatizing stuff 563 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 3: sometimes and it's to do with like body image and 564 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 3: eating disorders and beauty and all these things, but it's 565 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 3: really focusing on what does it mean to be a 566 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 3: woman in twenty twenty four and how do we converse 567 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 3: about that to make sure that it gets better. 568 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: It's quite vulnerable, and leading back to what you said 569 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 1: at the start, is talking about taboo conversations means being vulnerable, 570 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: and it's essentially what you've done in this book. 571 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 2: How did you get yourself there? 572 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: Because that's really scary, Like even you know, we wrote 573 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: a book and there were moments that. 574 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 3: I was like, fuck, do I want to put this in? 575 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 3: People not going to like me because I've said this? 576 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it can be really really hard to be vulnerable. 577 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 1: So that how did you kind of help yourself and 578 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: encourage yourself to be vulnerable in this book to help 579 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 1: others be vulnerable. 580 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 3: And have those taboo conversations as well? So hard because 581 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 3: what it and I'm not sure if you had this experience. 582 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 3: I'm sure you did where when you finish writing and 583 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 3: editing you just kind of push it away. I can't, 584 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 3: And I talk about this a lot, like the writing 585 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 3: part and the editing part are fucking hard because you're 586 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 3: having to. It's like for everyone listening, it's like a 587 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 3: university assignment that just keeps coming back. 588 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 2: And you're like, I thought it was done. 589 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 3: I thought I could rush that to that one deadline. 590 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 3: But then you realize, oh no, no, the deadline keeps moving, 591 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 3: and even like when you finish it for the last time, 592 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 3: you go back and open the document, you're like, fuck, 593 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 3: Like now it's going out, and you almost push it 594 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 3: away from yourself and dismiss its existence, because in the 595 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 3: lead up between like finishing, editing, and going on shelves, 596 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 3: you can't think too hard about the fact that strangers 597 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,880 Speaker 3: now have the capacity to access all these things about. 598 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 2: You because you can't change it. 599 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 3: You can't change it back. But then you also have 600 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 3: to realize this is a moment in time, and actually, 601 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 3: if this book was relevant I agreed with everything I 602 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 3: said in five years, that would be a problem. I agree. 603 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 3: I think about this lot because people go, oh, what's 604 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 3: a you know you're committing to print. I'm like, but 605 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 3: you can't think of it like I hope in twenty 606 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 3: years I'll agree with myself. On page twenty eight, the 607 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 3: point is that you can change your mind. You can 608 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 3: be better you can evolve as a natural human being. 609 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 3: So you have to look at yourself and I'm twenty 610 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 3: six now I have to look at this with like, 611 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 3: oh my god, she knew so little, but she tried 612 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 3: so hard. You have to yourself like that, right, and 613 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 3: you have to just be brave and be bold and 614 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 3: go fuck it. I'm not sure how this is going 615 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 3: to land, but I think that maybe a fifteen year 616 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 3: old me, a twenty year old me would have really 617 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 3: benefit from this and push out with the knowledge that 618 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 3: you just want to reach one person, you know, like 619 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 3: that's how you have to approach. Otherwise you'll actually have 620 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 3: to crawl under a rock and hide, like truly. 621 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 4: One of our favorite taboo topics that you covered in 622 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 4: the book is that friendship is more powerful than romantic relationships. 623 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 4: What's the biggest life lesson that you've gotten from female friendship? 624 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,640 Speaker 3: Thing about female friendship is that it has no expectations 625 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 3: of sex or how you look or there's no There 626 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 3: is a level of intimacy, but it is not based 627 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 3: in your body or like what you can or can't 628 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 3: perform or do for a partner in that capacity, so 629 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 3: in that it sees you without as many and not 630 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 3: to say that every relationship has to be innately sexual 631 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 3: and all those things in partnership, in romance, but so 632 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 3: often that is the case, and what we're built to 633 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 3: believe we have to do, which was like with a frequency, 634 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 3: how long it should last, how we should look during it. 635 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 3: There's so many expectations. Friendship is a relationship and a 636 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 3: love built purely on I see you, and I'm interested 637 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 3: in your being and what you have to tell me. 638 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a choice. 639 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 3: And you're saying like, I love your mind, and I 640 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 3: love what you contribute to my life just by being 641 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 3: present in it. And I think that romantic relationships have 642 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 3: a lot to learn from that natural connection and want 643 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 3: without physical expectations. Yeah, that is the biggest thing. But 644 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 3: there's obviously so much more too. 645 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 2: I sound so smart when I quote Plato, so. 646 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: I'm there's actually a quote friend Plante, who was the 647 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: first person to document platonic soulmates. We've created soulmates as 648 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: a term to be a level of status, an achievement 649 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: for romantic relationship, when really soulmates is a blanket term 650 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: for all relationships that are intimate, because intimacy is not sexual. Yes, 651 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: and I just love it, because I think you should 652 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: have soulmates that are not your romantic partner, because there's 653 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: no there's no blood relationship or marriage certificate that's forcing 654 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: you to be together. Not that that should ever force 655 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: anyone to be together anyway, but sometimes those relationships have 656 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: like a. 657 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 3: Fog of expectation. 658 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: There's a bind that it's like, oh, well, I'm going 659 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: to be here for you because you're my family or 660 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: because you're my boyfriend or husband or whatever it is, 661 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: which again I don't think we should have that expectation. 662 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: People do, but yeah, we have to acknowledge that that's there. 663 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: Whereas with friendships, it is just such a choice. And 664 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: so when you do have those incredible friendships in your life, 665 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: it is such an empowering sense of belonging because it's like, yeah, 666 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: these people see you and your mind and they're like, yeah, 667 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: I like you, Pokemon when you keep your up packet 668 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: and I'm not going to let you go. 669 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 4: And interesting thing that you mentioned in the book is, 670 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 4: and I want you to elaborate on this is when 671 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 4: people say that their partners are their best friends. 672 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what are your thoughts? 673 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 3: I don't like it. 674 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 2: I just love that that's it. That's their answer. 675 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 3: I don't like it. 676 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 2: I don't like it. 677 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 3: I don't like it. The reason I don't like it 678 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,479 Speaker 3: is because I think it's that what I just describe, 679 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 3: Because of course, your partner has a relationship with you 680 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 3: that is is far closer like I hope. I hope. 681 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 3: I hope that because of the sexual connection and the 682 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 3: way they see and experience you in that different way 683 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 3: is an elevation from a normal friendship. I hope. I 684 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:06,719 Speaker 3: do fear that in most romantic heterosexual relationships, their female 685 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 3: friends know them better than their romantic partner. That's what 686 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 3: I fear for women. I wish that men were more 687 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 3: emotionally on the whole, more emotionally equal to women and 688 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 3: the kind of friendship we experience. But I think that 689 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 3: when you don't have that modeled in most male friendships, 690 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 3: that's very hard to attain an acquire right. What I 691 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 3: think by saying your partner's your best friend is that 692 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 3: you're eliminating the role of the best friend and denoting 693 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 3: it right, because a friendship is entirely different, and it's 694 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 3: that platonic, that absence of sexualization that makes it so special, 695 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 3: because there is no expectation, it has like less conditions. 696 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 3: Almost to say your partners your best friend is to 697 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 3: remove the role of other women in your life in 698 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 3: a sense, and not to say that your best friend 699 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 3: can't be male. But we know that female friendship is 700 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 3: like the most powerful force in the world, and to 701 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 3: say your partner is that it is kind of just 702 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 3: to degrade that narrot it a little bit. 703 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I agree with you, but I think 704 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: your partner should be your best friend, but you. 705 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 3: Should also have other best friends. 706 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Like I do think of Rob 707 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: as like a best friend in my life, but not 708 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: the best friend, you know, because I've had relationships where 709 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: they weren't, and that was because I think there's that 710 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: there was an absence of me being able to be 711 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: authentically myself. 712 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 2: But I agree with you. 713 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: But I also think you should look at a romantic 714 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: partner and they should. 715 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 3: Course. 716 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: Maybe it's because I look at it in terms of 717 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: how your female friendships the level that they are. They're 718 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: a fucking slagh And if your partner is not being 719 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: obsessed with you like your friends are, then I'm like 720 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: bin yeane. So maybe that's why I think of it 721 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: like that. But I agree that I don't think they 722 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: should be your only friend. 723 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 3: I don't think they should be your best friend with exclusion. 724 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like, regardless of what the relationship is, 725 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 4: you should never have all of your eggs in one bust, 726 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 4: and that no one person can fulfill you, whether that's 727 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 4: romantically or friendship or family, and that you need to 728 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 4: have multiple support systems in your life. And I think 729 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 4: a lot of people in heterosexual relationships especially that, and 730 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 4: I'm sure we've all seen this, that they get into 731 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 4: a relationship, their partner becomes their best friend, and then 732 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 4: they're completely isolated. 733 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 2: From any other support system they have. 734 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 4: And that's what is always like an alarm bell for 735 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 4: me when I see somebody who has sort of let 736 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 4: go of their friendships and hasn't maintained those in favor 737 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 4: of their partner, and now their partner is their only 738 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 4: source of support. 739 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 3: Well, with a former partner of mine, like once he 740 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 3: asked me, like six months into the relationship, like am 741 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 3: I your best friend? And I said no, no, Like, 742 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:50,959 Speaker 3: I don't see it that way. I see it as 743 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 3: like I have best friends and then I have a partner, 744 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 3: and you are at the top, but you are not 745 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 3: my favorite person number one necessarily because one you will 746 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 3: be one day. But my best friends have been with 747 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 3: me for ten years, so true, so it would be 748 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 3: unfair to them to say you've jumped to number one 749 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,439 Speaker 3: after six months because we have sex. And I don't 750 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 3: mean to discard that. I think he is incredibly important. 751 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 3: I think that your partner should be one of the 752 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 3: most important people in your life. But I think it's 753 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,760 Speaker 3: about saying, like, you also have to earn that because 754 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 3: the girls have and the girls might will be at 755 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 3: the wedding, but you might not be. I love it 756 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 3: right that I saw that branch. I saw that on 757 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 3: TikTok once, like this woman said like, well, I'm going 758 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 3: to be a bridesbed, I'm at the wedding, bit is he? 759 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,720 Speaker 3: And I was like that changed everything for me. That's true. 760 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 3: It is a different branch. It's just the partner and 761 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 3: best friends. It in like different. 762 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,280 Speaker 2: Categories in my mind, a different basket. 763 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 3: But they're at the same level. Yeah, yeah, it's just 764 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 3: it's the label for me. 765 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: Whenever I was dating people and I would like tell 766 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: them about Zau as like kind of a way to 767 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: introduce them to the fact that there's a higher ranking 768 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: officer in the situation. 769 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, they've got a manager. Yeah, there's probation period. 770 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, and that's the thing, and it's always 771 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: a green flag when they respect that. 772 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 3: Yep. Okay. 773 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: And then before we wrap up, we would also love 774 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: to ask you what's your biggest life lesson you learn 775 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: while writing this book. 776 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 3: I think that there is something more important than the 777 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 3: fear you feel about putting something vulnerable out right, Like, 778 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 3: of course you're going to feel the fear, but you 779 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 3: can't allow that to not make you do something. You 780 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 3: have to feel that fear and know that what you're 781 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,399 Speaker 3: producing and what you're saying is more important and has 782 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 3: the potential to impact people in positive ways even though 783 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 3: it presents like a risk to you. This has presented 784 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 3: a risk to me because it's so vulnerable about like 785 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 3: my family and my relationships. But ultimately, every time I 786 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 3: was like I can do this, I'm not sure it's 787 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 3: going to land. It's like I have to be willing 788 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 3: to face criticism and backlash and all those fears, but 789 00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 3: I know that what I'm doing is the right choice 790 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 3: and fair choice and representation, and I can just know that. 791 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,240 Speaker 3: Like I talk about dating, experiences that I'm really worried 792 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,720 Speaker 3: that people involved will see. But I'm also talking about them, 793 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 3: not to dab people in or make people look bad, 794 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 3: but to talk about the way I responded and what 795 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 3: I wish I'd done differently in my earlier twenties. So 796 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,919 Speaker 3: I think it's about knowing that that reflection could help 797 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 3: someone else, and that these are the things we need 798 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 3: to crap and that shame I feel it's always going 799 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 3: to live inside me, but what I'm doing is help 800 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 3: dismantle that for others. 801 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 4: Thank you so much for coming on as always, it 802 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 4: was a pleasure and we're so proud of you. 803 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 2: We've read the book. It was amazing. 804 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 4: I've learned so much about you but also about myself, 805 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 4: and I think so many people will feel the exact 806 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 4: same way, so soak it in. 807 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 2: You should be really proud. I'm going to stop talking because. 808 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:45,280 Speaker 3: Oh that's really nice. 809 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:45,879 Speaker 1: Thank you. 810 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 3: I love you anyway. You're not big week. 811 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 2: Thanks for having us in your ear heels JS. 812 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 3: We love to be here. Thanks Sam, I made for well. 813 00:36:54,520 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 3: Make your day's episode happens. Let's wrap it up, beautiful. 814 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 3: The fact has a past