WEBVTT - Nathan Burke - The Saint with the helmet 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:08.719 What would have happened if they had done that to 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:13.520 Ken Sheldon or even a Stan Elks later on down 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:18.040 the line at Grand Thomas. All of those three in 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:22.320 particular had the makings of a great coach. Given the 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:25.599 right support, given the right background. What could we have done? 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:28.760 But Saint Kilda's history has always been no, we need 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:30.240 someone else to put the icing on a cake. And 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:33.880 I'm a little bit concerned about the sort the Ratten 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.879 and lion that is, this history of repeating itself. 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:42.040 I'm John Ralph and I'm Glenn MacFarlane. 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:45.320 Welcome to Sacked, a podcast that explores what really happens 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:47.879 when the ax falls in the AFL world. Will take 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:49.640 you behind the scenes with some of the biggest names 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.040 in football and find out how they found out, how 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:52.960 time was up and. 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:53.800 Who pulled the trigger. 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.040 Sacked AFL is made possible with the support of subscribers 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:59.160 to The Herald Sun. To find out more, go to 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:02.280 Herald Sun dot com or download the Herald Sun app 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:02.800 at your. 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:04.520 App store Today. 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.920 The Saint with a Helmet Part one of our chat 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.880 with Nathan Burke. Nathan Burke was still a young Frankston 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:14.280 school kid when he's picked to make his taboo for 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:16.880 the Saints, but he became a legend of the Red, 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:20.520 White and Black with involvement in Arabin Across four decades. 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:23.080 He played with some of the greatest names of the 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:27.440 modern era Lockett, Frawley, Harvey Windmar across three hundred and 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:30.479 twenty three games as the bedrock of a Saints team 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:34.959 whose fortunes fluctuated wildly. And if that wasn't enough, once 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:37.800 his playing career ended, he wound up with a seat 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:40.640 on the Saints board as well, and a front row 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:43.319 seat to the turmoil that was the end of Ross 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:45.520 Lyon's first tenure as Saints coach. 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.240 So Nathan Burke, three outed in twenty three games, seventeen seasons, 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:51.800 thirty three possessions in the nineteen ninety seven Grand Final, 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:55.360 a hugely decorated career. But you've never been sacked until 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.200 last November, so you were never eligible for this podcast. 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:01.040 So Burkie, welcome to Sacked. Yeah, thank you very much. 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:02.920 I'm glad to meet the criteria. 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:04.680 We always talk about it. 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:06.000 You know, when your head hits the pillow at night, 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:07.760 do you think about being a great father and a 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.440 great husband to your wife, or a great footballer and 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:13.520 a Football Hall of Fame member, or are you talking 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:15.280 do you think about the low points of being sacked 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.520 and not quite getting close? What's your overall feelings of 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:20.480 an extraordinary career in life? 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:24.440 It comes and goes to be totally. There are times 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:28.000 when when you're laying there and sort of the injustice 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:31.320 sort of filters through the brain and I could add 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:33.240 this conversation and I should have said this and should 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.440 have done that. But then you sort of move on 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.800 very very quickly from there and you look back on 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:39.960 all the good times. 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:40.560 Was it right? 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:42.480 One of your coaches, one of your early coaches said, 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:43.639 don't have any regrets? 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.280 Was that I was, yeah, Daryl Bulldock right at the 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:48.640 very very start, and I remember getting called up into 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.480 his little office up there in the old grandstand at 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:55.000 Rabin and he just said you could make me a promise, 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.200 and I said, yeah, I'm fine, I'll do anything that 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.839 you want, Doc, And he just said that when you're 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:02.760 get kicked out of here, whether it be one game, 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:05.280 hundred games, throw under games, whatever it is, look back 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:07.960 and say that you've got no regrets. You gave it everything, 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:10.079 and then you can when you're an old farts in 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:13.120 your rocking chair. You can look back and be pleased 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:16.560 with what your whatever, your talent allowed you to get. 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:18.200 And that's what always stuck with it. 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:20.480 And did you think about that conversation over the journey 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:22.679 that you went through, even with the Bulldogs, did you 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:23.320 think about that? 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:25.600 Ye, that conversation with a great doc. 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:29.120 Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And everything I do at the moment 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:31.120 I still sort of put through that lens. Am I 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.720 giving it my all. You give it, you're all. It's 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:37.520 harder to quit when you're giving it. 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:37.960 You're all. 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:40.440 You know exactly how good you are and where you 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:42.839 need to work when you're giving it you're all. So Yeah, 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.320 it's just been a mancha that the great Man has 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:46.160 sort of left with me. 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:47.800 It's a pretty good feeling about looking the mirror and 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:51.200 feel proud of what you've done, aware of your shortcomings. 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:52.840 It's a rare person that can do that. 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.640 Yeah, look, I'm absolutely aware of my shortcomings. 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.320 Saints past players had a raiser a couple of weeks 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:05.080 ago and they showed a game from I think it 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.800 was my last season two thousand and three Fraser Gary 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:13.160 Kick nine. We played North Melbourne at the Docklands. We 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:18.200 were in front. They came back and as we highlights 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:21.039 first three quarters, watch the last quarter, all I could 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.760 think of was in that last quarter the scores or level, 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:27.560 I got the footy and I panicked, and I handballed 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:30.200 straight to Adam Simpson who kicked the point to put 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:35.200 them in the fat last. 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:46.000 Minutes ago. 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.440 And it's funny the things that come from I cannot 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:51.599 remember anything else in the game. It was actually the 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.479 game when I equaled Stuart Lowe's the record game. All 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:57.480 I could think of was, they're going to show this 0:04:57.680 --> 0:04:59.800 me making a handball mistake in the last quarter, making 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:03.080 a Really that's just what sort of goes ahead. And 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:05.440 the things that I remember, so I try and put 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:09.120 them aside. But it's probably a legacy of getting the 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:11.279 most out of it yourself that you possibly can, is 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:13.599 that you've got to recognize the mistakes that you make 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:15.839 and then try and correct them. But I knew it 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:17.080 was coming on you. It was coming, and when it 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.200 did happen, all the crowd grown and looked at me 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:20.760 and oh, and they sort of laughed at I might 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:23.200 have lost the game, but luckily we wouldn't have played 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:25.800 a game that we lost. And so Robert Harvey got 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.120 the ball in middle of the ground, two bounces hit 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.560 Fraser geig And on the chest and kicked his ninth 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:31.520 and were won by five points. 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.400 And the day as he has for something as well 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.279 as Sint Kilda, just added the kid from the Pines. 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:40.640 It used to get fifty cents. 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:41.360 It was right. 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:43.320 I think Ralphie wrote the story for your Hall of Fame. 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.040 Fifty cents for a pine a coke from your dad 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.080 to hang around. How did that kid become a some 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:48.760 kilder player? 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:54.120 Probably My father's mantra was play every sport that you can, 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.359 and the one that you love the best is the 0:05:57.360 --> 0:05:59.000 one that you're probably going to practice the most, and 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:00.720 you want to go to training, you'll end up being 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:03.400 the best at That's what we did. We played basketball, cricket, 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:07.600 everything that we possibly could, and my junior years were 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:11.200 very formative. He was coaching down the local Frankston areas 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.440 down at the Pines and so we'd get there at 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:15.360 sort of nine o'clock in the morning for the thirds 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.600 and then he's fifty cents pine and cann of coke, 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:20.600 something to eat, and when the final sign went for 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:22.200 the seniors, you had to be back at the car 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.560 and that's what it was, and so you just hang 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:26.880 out for the breaks and quarter a time, halftime out 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:30.080 and the ovell kicking the footy around. And that probably 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.080 love of footy enabled me to just sort of go 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:36.000 through the pathway and knowing that because I lived on 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.320 that area of Frankston, I was always zoned the old 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.919 zoning days to Saint Kilda and Richmond support bag for 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.480 the Tigers were mad Tigers, but always had one eye 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:46.000 on if I mean it good, I'm probably going to 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.280 end up at Saint Kilda. And it sort of all 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.040 happened very very quickly around that sort of seventeen years 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:51.400 of age. 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:53.080 And how close we did the Hawthorne zone is, you 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:55.600 know though the over the back fence, it's pretty close 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:56.400 sort of. 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.800 The Hawthorne was more Frankston South right, so they got 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:02.080 Ermie and those sort of guys Franks in South. I 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:04.880 was Frankston North and I think Hawthorne picked up again 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.800 round about Chelsea, which is where they got to Matthews 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.600 those players from So I was sort of wedged right 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:14.480 in that Hawthorne's own Probably good I didn't go to Hawthorne. 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:15.720 They had some great midfielders. 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:16.800 I probably a game. 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.840 So as it was the Saints of the time, we're 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:20.800 willing to take anyone. 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:22.400 So you get a letter of the schoolboys squad that 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.640 s announced to someone, it's just not Nathan Burke. 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:25.720 Yeah. 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:31.320 Yeah, So I was doing year twelve at the time. 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:33.440 I played first two games of that year in the 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.720 under nineteens and then four in the reserves. And then 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.560 Devil Bordock said to my father and I come for 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:41.840 a meeting. We wanted to play in the seniors, and 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.240 the old man said, oh, I'm not sure whether he's ready. 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.720 He's seventy kilograms ringing wet. And I sort of turned 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:49.720 around and said, hey, this is Devil Boardock. I think 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:53.040 he knows that tad more than you. I'm taking this 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:55.680 up to go with what Doc thinks. So and then 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:57.440 it was sort of a whirlwind from there. 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.000 And against Richmond. You're still a schoolboy, was it Monterey 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:01.280 High School? Is that where you went? 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.640 Mondre High School? I used to sort of bell used 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:06.360 to go, used to fly out. The old man was 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.960 a four tiler, so yeah, he'd finished work at the 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:10.720 time and be meeting me at the gate. Jump in 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.760 the car and drive up to Morabin and yeah against 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.920 the Tigers, and I had Richmond paraphernalia all around the 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:22.120 bedroom walls, and Markley and Jeff Rains and Jim Jess. 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:23.520 I was about to ask you about Jim j just 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:26.080 did he nearly clean you up? Almost your very first 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:27.880 passenger play my very. 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:30.160 First I can I can still see it now. My 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.920 very first headline was Nathan ghosts into the big time 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:38.920 ghost being obviously Jimmy Simms's nickname. Apparently I ducked just 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.079 at the right time as Jimmy with his big sharp 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.839 elbows came flying through, and I don't know what it 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:47.160 was instinct I ducked and their head stayed on the shoulders, 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:47.960 but it was that close. 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:50.600 Apparently, take us through what you know what that was like? 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.200 So Harlie Reid comes in Schoolboy done the way it 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:56.400 looks great sanctified game. When you were playing in a 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.400 brutal environment there where you know those elbows, you know 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:02.640 we're going to swim past and sometimes cheer every five minutes. 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:04.760 It's so different to what Harley and all these young 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:06.559 kids Nick Dacos would find these days. 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:08.480 It is, but we didn't know any different. That was 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:10.440 just the way the game was played. It wasn't like, 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:13.000 oh this is extra violent at the moment or extra 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.200 rough and tough. It was just the way the game 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:18.679 was played. And one two memories from that day. One 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:21.320 was trying to tackle Mark Lee and I sort of 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.480 hung around the waist but I don't think I slowed 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:27.600 him down and he just kept running. And as I said, 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.200 seventy killer games. And after the game is when the 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:31.960 nerves said him. We had a dinner after the game 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.160 and I was throwing up in the toilets because I 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.600 all just sort of hit the anxiety. The anxieties were 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.720 really after the game, and probably that in figuring out 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:41.040 how am I going to get home because I can't 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.319 drive a car, so which one of these guys heading 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:44.319 back to Frankston. 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:46.400 A few of the boys would have been at the 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:47.719 Saints Disco or something. 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:51.600 Like that exactly, and a good mate, Peter Freeman, ended 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:53.720 up driving me home because I was thinking I'm going 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:56.319 to have to jump on the train here and get 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.280 the train back to Frankston. But they were the sort 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.200 of things that he thought of in those days, but 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:05.199 completely different scenario to driving underground and all the fancy 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:05.720 stuff they. 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.240 Do decent parks and stuff like that. Just with a doc. 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.640 He obviously had an impact on you from the start 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:13.720 in that first year. He has the stroke later in 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:16.560 the year and doesn't coach for the and you have 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.920 another coach, Alan Davis. Davis four or five four or 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.360 so games in that So how tough was that as 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:24.800 a young kid coming in You really love this legend 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:26.000 of the club, and all of a sudden he's not 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.000 no longer there, He's having his own battle. 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:28.480 Yeah. 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:30.280 No, it was certainly tough. 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:34.079 And look i Io Doc Alt, Robert Harvey, Jason Daniels, 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.760 all of a sudden, Doc Alt, because to be totally honest, 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.360 we didn't deserve a game every single week, to just 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.080 roll up and get games, get games, get games. But 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:47.800 DoD Doc's credit, he played us young bokes. He looked 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.640 after us some training. So the funny thing was we 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.280 sort of trained half the night and it's young bukes 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:56.600 in you go and Joffer Burns and Trevor Barker and 0:10:56.640 --> 0:11:01.000 these older Bolks and Greg Burns, Jeoffah Cunningham. Sorry, they'd 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.240 stay out and keep training all lust. Young bikes would 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.760 go in and get rested too much to their chagrin. 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.920 But the reason why we were able to play so 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:13.080 many games, and the reason why we were able to 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:14.839 sort of have the crews that we did, I think 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.760 because he persevered and blooded us and gave us games 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.880 week after week, probably when we didn't deserve them. These days, 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:25.200 that doesn't sort of happen very much. It's it's very cutthroat. 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.120 So yeah, no, I the great Man a lot, and 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.719 as does Robert Harvey, Stuart Low and Jason Daniels and 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.679 US Bikes who came through that early ages, late ages. 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:48.880 Running run, running the reward to their point. 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:50.760 So you're playing in that first year and you're playing 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:54.840 alongside Trevor Barker, Spud Frawley, Tony Lockett. 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.880 I was just yeah, well that first year eighty seven 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.280 was plug Is Brown a year Yeah, kicked one hundred 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:08.040 and seventeen. So just playing at myrabin. You're driving down 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.000 Linton Street and you just park out in the field 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:12.000 with everybody else, and you walk in and you line 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.280 up at the gate with everybody else, and everyone pat 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.880 me on the back and back. Then I was playing 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:21.200 in the back pocket first year. And the bad part 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.320 was was that wherever I went, the crowded go up 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:28.080 the other hand, everyone wants to watch it is it me. 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.000 The crowd would move up the other end when I 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:34.400 was up there, so there was no under there's spud 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.600 foiling myself standing there with no crowd around. But that 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:40.520 was the way football was back then. So like there's 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.079 no Premiership to look back on, but I can look 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.760 back on from those days at Rabin in the Mud 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:50.120 with Plugger, through to the Waverley through to playing at 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.680 Marvel Stadium under a roof and the sterile environment there. 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.840 I was unfortunate that I managed to last long enough 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.880 to have a whole with three generations of players from 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:06.720 the Barker's cunning Hams to the Burns to the Low 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:10.920 Harvey and wind Mars and then finish off with Ree Walton, 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.160 Hayes and Delsandros and those guys, and so three different 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:18.040 generations of footballers that I managed to play with. And 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.520 as you mentioned, putt your head on your pillow at night. 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:23.160 I don't have a Premiership look back on, but you know, 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:24.800 it's pretty good to be able to say that your 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:25.920 teammates for those guys. 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.920 Definitely, there was always talk about some Kilda taking short 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:30.600 cuts at the time, did they they had a good 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.319 good time off the field and that as well. Did 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:34.800 you notice that from the start or was that something 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:38.480 that is overblown from the outside of the club in 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:38.920 that sense? 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:39.640 Do you think. 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:44.199 Probably didn't know what other clubs did. But I dare say, 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.240 and you know, we got a lot of players from 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.480 Carlton in my early years, you know, Sheldon the Marku 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:55.120 and Cork Emilis and Ian Mauler and Luckie Nickson. 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.480 You don't know where to go to you come done 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:07.000 with your meats, playing for all the scenes, easy kicks, 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.960 good conditions, good being. Did you're tired of meat? 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.720 They could party with the best of them, But I 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:16.520 reckon what was happening was that they had success to 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.080 wallpaper over that. We didn't have success to wallpaper over that. 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.840 But but it was the was the culture of the club. 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:24.720 If you won a game at Rabin, you'd go up 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.720 into the Social Club and they'd be singing O when 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:29.520 the Saints go marching in a the top of a 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:31.760 hat and drinks would be flowing and want to be 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.720 cheering and carrying on. If you lost a game at Rabin, 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:36.840 you go up to Social Club and pretty much the 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:44.680 same thing the song Ago and you'd be treated like 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.120 a hero and that I think that was probably three 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:50.440 quarters of the problem, is that there wasn't a great 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.640 deal of difference between winning and losing. It was just 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.400 happy to be there in the club. And you know, 0:14:57.920 --> 0:14:59.520 that was one of the things that they needed to 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:01.880 change and sort of say, hey, you know what, we're 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.480 not going to accept this losing like we did. But 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:06.560 that was just the culture of the club at the time. 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:09.160 Kenny Sheldon Hearer, So of course he takes over. 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.720 You build towards nineteen ninety one, you know, you transition 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:14.800 more into a midfield to take us through those years. 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.040 Yeah, so I started off as a back pocket work 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.200 my way into the midfield. I think I had seven coaches, 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:23.480 and every time a new coach came, I sort of 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:25.520 got shoved down at the back line and they will 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:27.640 find a better midfielder and then you sort of work 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:28.200 your way. 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:28.640 Back up again. 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:33.160 But Kenny was great for the club in that he 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:37.640 brought a level of professionalism from Carlton, but his strength 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:41.040 was getting the players united as a group, wanting to 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.320 be together, wanting to play together. Was he the tactical 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.680 genius that some of the other coaches were probably not. 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.120 Did we get hurt a little bit by that in 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.640 games when we played sheets and those sort of things, Yes, 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.120 we probably did. But got us to the finals two 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:58.520 out of four years purely on us wanting to play 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:03.880 together and getting that momentum and utilizing the talents of 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:05.200 a big black up front. 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:08.600 And that ninety one season like started pretty slowly, but 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.200 you're really you know, to get through to player finals. 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.400 I think it was the first final Sekula played in 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.320 eighteen years, and there would have been some celebrating just 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:17.280 even getting. 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:18.080 There to do that, wasn't there? 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.760 Yeah, there was eighteen years was a long drown, yeah, finals, 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:26.440 and so to get there was a really big effort. 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.400 It was not a great day. I think we finished 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:33.320 sixth that year and that was the first. 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.040 First year of the six. Wouldn't it was that, right? 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:35.360 Yeah? 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:36.920 It might have been. Actually, yeah it was. 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.240 It was the last year that six didn't get a 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.960 double chance, right, yeah? And so we played I think 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.520 too long it a third. I didn't last very long. 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:50.680 I got it cleaned up by Gary Ablett. David Grant 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:52.440 the same, and both of us were sitting on the 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.080 bench with blird vision sort of we'd hear that cheers 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.520 go off and it was either plug a kicking nine 0:16:57.520 --> 0:16:59.240 at one end. I think Billy Brown has kicked out 0:16:59.240 --> 0:16:59.840 at the other end and. 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:01.720 Was that us? Was that us? Or was that there? 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.040 That's how bad you were? Yeah, both really bad. 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:05.840 Blur vision couldn't see what was going on. 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:09.280 And we had another couple of players who wanted to 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.280 come off in that game but couldn't because we had 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.800 no one to go on. And as it turned out, 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:16.520 we just got pipped and that was the end. But 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.720 I think out of all my sort of years of 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.960 not being successful that one, if we hadn't got through 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:25.600 that game, I think West Coast ended up going on 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:26.720 and winning the flag. 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:29.040 We were a chance. 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:42.159 Aside well, it was one of the great matches and 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:43.439 the Cats have won by. 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:48.159 Seven points when mar played his heart out. Malcolm Blint 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:53.520 went through some tough times here today twenty forty twenty 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.760 eight today reading the Saints for the first time in 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:00.000 the finals match. Garry Ablett and that you'd rather forget. 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.359 I think Tony Loved who was magnificent good nine goals. 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.320 Devin Port can hardly lift himself and not the for 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:09.760 all this face it says it all. 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:13.560 What's a lot to get cleaned up by Ablett Senior. 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:16.320 He got two weeks for that one. 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:17.760 What would he get today? 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:19.200 Yeah, it'd be eight. 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.320 Just at eight, I went into I went into Shepherd, 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:25.760 one of my players, and he just came flying through 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.480 with an elbow and went bang. And the two weeks 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:30.320 meant that he could come back for the Grand Final 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:34.480 and playing that one. I'm glad they actually lost, but yeah, 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:38.679 look he was as a brutal player. I've got no 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.080 hard feelings at all, but yeah, it was. 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.600 That your first concussion. Was that your first or had 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:45.760 you had something before then? 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:49.960 Do you think or you I had what we now 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:50.920 know is concuction. 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:55.520 Yeah, at the time, i'd get the blurred vision, Yeah, 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:57.960 a sort of three or four minutes later, the blurred 0:18:58.000 --> 0:18:59.760 vision that come on after the game, I'd get the 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.119 your headaches and nausea, And the doctors diagnosed it as 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.400 a former migraine, And they said, you get a migraine 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.119 that comes on for me, Yeah, knock. Now we know 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.240 that's concussion. But what it allowed me to do was 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:15.960 to whenever I had it subsequent years from that, to say, hey, 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.840 I'm not concussed. I've got a migrant grain I play 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:19.639 next week. 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:21.440 So you would have played the week after. You would 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:22.600 say Sink would have had to won that game. 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.480 You would have played that absolutely, Yeah, I would have 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:28.920 rolled out. I probably had headache every time I bent 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.840 down and did my shoes up, and the probably when 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:34.040 I ran around at training. My had to be buntering 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:36.960 around and get a headache. But at the time we 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.240 didn't know much better. So yeah, I definitely would have 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:41.040 played the following week. 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.520 And eventually that became something where you wore a helmet 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:44.600 and it certainly helped you. 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:48.200 Yeah, because what was happening was that the following year 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:52.760 was I was getting the blurred vision more often, and 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:54.800 Kenny Sheldon just sort of said, look, we can't we 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:57.119 only got two on the bench. I can't keep playing you. 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:58.920 If this is going to you're going to keep coming 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.200 off with his blurred visions, You've got to try something. 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:03.440 And they said, they've got a pill that takes about 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.240 an hour to work, and that's no good, So try 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:08.520 the helmet. They had an old one of Trevor Barkers, 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:11.960 he wore once or twice in his career from his 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:16.840 air different He was sort of taking speck. No, that 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:21.200 was not in any way, shape or form. So try 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:23.520 that one. It was too big, didn't fit, so try 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:27.200 something else and look. Anecdotally it worked for me. I'd 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:29.480 still get the issue, but that was mainly through hits 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.640 in the nose or the chin. I'd get a whack 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:33.359 in the helmet and I'd think, right, is it going 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.560 to happen? Is it going to come on? And sometimes 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.080 he didn't. Sometimes it came on a little bit enough 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.800 for me to sort of recognize that, Hey, Maka, you're 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.159 getting a heap of touches the other team. So I'm 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:46.840 just going to follow you around for a bit. And 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.479 the coach would say, why are you tagging that person? Well, 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:53.159 you know, they were just getting off the leash of Yeah. 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:54.640 Basically all I could see was you. 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:57.879 I'd stay on the field and not come off because 0:20:57.880 --> 0:20:59.920 I could still run around. My arms and legs worked, 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:01.280 but my eyes just didn't. 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:03.600 And you've had all the brain scans now and you're 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:04.560 in reasonable shape. 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:07.879 No I haven't, but I think I'm still in reasonable shape. Yeah. 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:10.560 Memory is still spectacular. Yeah, No, it's still okay. 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:12.639 I test myself so in my line of work, I 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.280 get up and give speeches and talks and seminars and 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:19.160 that sort of stuff. So if I can remember what's 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:22.480 there without cheat notes, well then you know, I keep going. 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:23.600 So so far, so good. 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.080 Yeah, just with concussion, Like, is there something we can 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:29.040 do better? We're doing as much as we can. It's 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:31.120 a it's a combat sport in a lot of ways, 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:32.720 but there are other things that we can do. 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:33.439 I think. 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:35.520 Do you think that the next step and what we 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:39.560 need to bring in is that there are machines that 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:43.600 can diagnose better than a SCAT test, better than a 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:48.680 doctor sitting there asking you questions. We did sort of 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:51.119 like a stick SCAT came in towards the end of 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:53.880 my career, and I'll put my hand up blatantly say 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:58.560 I did the test slower in the in the control area, 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:00.400 so that if I got a whack to you the game, 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:04.919 there were some sort of things that you had to 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.600 follow with your hand eye and draw on maps, and 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:09.600 so I did them with my left hand. And so 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:11.919 that I'm thinking, Okay, if I get a whack, that 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:14.320 nothing's going to happen. So I need to play next week. 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:17.199 So we need to take that human element out of 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:22.360 the diagnosis. Absolutely, you can sit there and there's machines 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:24.600 that I've tested. You put your eyes, you follow your 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:27.800 eyes around a board, and that can tell you how 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:31.040 diminished you are. We need those at every game to 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:32.960 put the players through it and take away the human 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:34.880 element and say yes, you are can cast, you can't 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:37.080 go back on, and you can't play until you get 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:38.160 a certain standard. 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:41.640 And there's blood tests and there's lipid tests and all 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:43.399 those things that better Jest pushes and the NFL has 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:45.679 done so much with their rule changes, but it's almost 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:47.520 like they're just you know, they're resisting that. 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:50.160 Got to have the human element out of it wherever 0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:50.640 I can. 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:53.800 And then ninety two, obviously that's another year where the 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:54.840 club's going really well. 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:56.679 And Ken was a bit of a hot gospel. 0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:58.640 I think there was one famous day where he got 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:02.080 a hold of Craig Devenport over the boundary line and 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:04.520 grabbed him and Devo goes on and kicks an important 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:05.160 goal as well. 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:09.160 Devin, look at that. Now, that tells you what discipline 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:09.840 is all about. 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:12.760 The man who's played in the Premiership sides telling the 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:15.040 youngster what self disciplines all of its. 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:16.600 Unusual for the coach to come down to the battery 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:16.919 line and. 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:21.880 Using pavorits on his ard of the gold Squeen. 0:23:23.480 --> 0:23:25.639 That team in ninety two. How good a side was that? 0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:30.520 Yeah, it was a really good. Plugger was at the 0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:33.960 peak of his scary end. He was I think I 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:35.720 was come here, I was ninety one On ninety two. 0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:38.840 He missed the first six games with a cook back 0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:42.439 and plug of rehabbing. Was basically sitting there waiting for 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:46.320 it to get better. There wasn't a. 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:49.240 Lot of coustraining or anything like that. 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:51.520 And then he came back and he played the first 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:54.560 three games back, he kicked like thirty one and then 0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:57.080 at the end of the year he kicked another thirty 0:23:57.080 --> 0:24:00.520 one in the last three games. And so he was 0:24:00.560 --> 0:24:03.240 at the peak of his powers at that particular time. 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:07.880 We had Sparred and Robert Harvey Stuart Larv coming into 0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:10.480 their powers and Nicky Wimmer was probably at the peak 0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:15.439 of his powers at the time. And we've played two finals. 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:16.800 We'll be Collingwood in the first one. 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:21.399 Who released Bulldogs foots Gray it's in the semi final. 0:24:21.520 --> 0:24:27.720 Yeah, right, again, that was close, but yeah, he didn't 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:28.960 quite get across the line. 0:24:29.080 --> 0:24:31.320 So if someone said to you Tony Lockett. I never 0:24:31.400 --> 0:24:31.840 heard of him. 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:35.520 How did you encapsulate his great off the field all 0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:37.520 that stuff and give us one of the great Tony 0:24:37.560 --> 0:24:38.199 Lockers stories. 0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:44.560 Look, he was probably the most competitive player that I 0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:49.679 came up against. If there's a training draw, he said, right, 0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:51.639 we're going to do lane work. This group here got 0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:53.080 to kick it at that lead and just go back 0:24:53.080 --> 0:24:55.840 to some formants and warm up your legs. Player would 0:24:55.840 --> 0:24:59.240 get to the front of the line. He'd go right out, Johnny, right, Mackie, 0:24:59.280 --> 0:25:01.600 you go, and he three steps backwards and let the 0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:04.160 others go, and then he'd eventually have a go. Because 0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:06.800 it was training d all, it meant nothing. But if 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:09.200 you said radio, it's a competition between this line and 0:25:09.240 --> 0:25:10.760 that line so you can get the most kicks in 0:25:10.840 --> 0:25:13.240 the next five minutes and not hit the ground, he'd 0:25:13.280 --> 0:25:14.560 go to the front of the line every time. 0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:15.800 And that's just what he was. 0:25:15.920 --> 0:25:18.440 He was just a competitor. But he hated all of 0:25:18.520 --> 0:25:21.840 the other crap that went on with playing AFL football. 0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:25.159 And I didn't think he would leave and go to Sydney. 0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:27.520 Yeah. I was going to say, did I ever enter 0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:29.760 your mind at all that he would know because. 0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:33.119 He hated at that particular time. He's living out in 0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:37.600 cranber living out there by himself, some sort of quiet area. 0:25:38.080 --> 0:25:40.440 Coming in playing football. I didn't think he'd go and 0:25:40.560 --> 0:25:44.040 be the marquee player in a place like Sydney, but 0:25:44.240 --> 0:25:46.480 as it turned out, it was the best thing for him. 0:25:46.520 --> 0:25:48.119 It was getting star. I think sort of ninety four 0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:50.879 to ninety five weren't his greatest years. He had had 0:25:50.880 --> 0:25:54.200 a lot of injuries, and certainly going to Sydney we 0:25:54.280 --> 0:25:57.280 saw the best comeback out in him. So and I 0:25:57.359 --> 0:25:59.879 think he matured a lot as a person as well. 0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:03.720 They managed him extremely well and let him sort of 0:26:03.760 --> 0:26:06.960 live out in Barrel and sort of ye commute it 0:26:07.119 --> 0:26:11.520 backwards and forward. So but yeah, he is the most 0:26:11.560 --> 0:26:14.280 competitive blake that I've come across, and it's actually the football. 0:26:14.280 --> 0:26:17.440 The other day was commentating Carlton game and Charlie Kerner 0:26:17.520 --> 0:26:20.560 picked the ball up, you know, one grab below his 0:26:20.680 --> 0:26:23.199 knees and snapped the goal and the commentator said, oh, 0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:25.000 that's the modern day full forward for you. 0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:25.760 Aren't they great? 0:26:25.840 --> 0:26:28.920 And I've got anyone You don't realize how good training 0:26:29.000 --> 0:26:31.600 like it was below his knees on left foot, right 0:26:31.680 --> 0:26:34.040 foot marking the ball in the air. He actually puts 0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:36.240 the modern day full forward to shame because he could 0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:37.480 do everything. 0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:39.040 And he never missed, did he He was one of 0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:40.639 the more accurate kicks you would ever see. 0:26:40.880 --> 0:26:41.399 Never missed. 0:26:41.440 --> 0:26:45.359 And you know, in terms of skill, he's probably one 0:26:45.400 --> 0:26:47.800 of the most skillful players that I played with, because, 0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:51.360 as I said, you're marking the ball with Steven Sulfony 0:26:51.560 --> 0:26:53.960 hanging on to you like a koala sitting on your back. 0:26:54.720 --> 0:26:56.400 If the ball hits the ground and then you're picking 0:26:56.440 --> 0:26:58.920 it up, you're balking around three blokes and snapping it 0:26:59.000 --> 0:26:59.680 on your left foot. 0:27:00.160 --> 0:27:02.080 That's what he could do with the bloke of that size. 0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:03.080 Just enormous. 0:27:03.280 --> 0:27:05.720 And yet we talked games record holder. But yeah, we 0:27:05.800 --> 0:27:08.080 talk about Gary Abbott Senior, and we talk about Wayne 0:27:08.160 --> 0:27:09.680 Carey's or and we talk about lead. 0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:10.480 Yeah. 0:27:10.600 --> 0:27:12.800 I'm not saying we discount what he's been able to do, 0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:14.879 but all the periphery of the crutch throwing and the 0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:17.040 fail comeback and that's the you know, to say, like 0:27:17.200 --> 0:27:20.280 we probab always discount some of his exquisite grandeur. 0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:25.040 Yeah. Absolutely, And I think people say, who's the best 0:27:25.080 --> 0:27:27.359 player you played with? The best player I played with? 0:27:27.440 --> 0:27:29.840 The best player I saw by Mill. He did have 0:27:29.960 --> 0:27:31.720 those sort of down years, but when he was on 0:27:31.800 --> 0:27:36.840 the song thirty first first three games back, thirty one goals, Yeah, incredible. 0:27:36.840 --> 0:27:38.399 He kicked one hundred and twenty seven that year and 0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:41.000 averages seven and a half if by kick seven and 0:27:41.000 --> 0:27:43.359 a half goals of these days, he's a superstar. He 0:27:43.640 --> 0:27:46.200 averaged seven and a half goals a game. And that 0:27:46.400 --> 0:27:49.200 was I think that was the ninety one season. Yeah, sure, 0:27:49.200 --> 0:27:51.240 it was, yeah, yeah, And he didn't kick a goal 0:27:51.280 --> 0:27:54.240 against Collingwood hundred and twenty seven during the year, didn't 0:27:54.280 --> 0:27:57.520 kick again. Believable, isn't And that was when Tony Shaw 0:27:57.560 --> 0:28:01.840 got into him. Tony Shaw, absolutely. 0:28:01.480 --> 0:28:03.400 What did he say to you remember anything he said there? 0:28:03.920 --> 0:28:04.680 He gives good at it. 0:28:04.760 --> 0:28:08.320 Sure, sure, he just got inside Plugger's head and lost it. 0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:10.879 And that would be rare for Plugger to other than 0:28:10.920 --> 0:28:14.200 to people. 0:28:14.880 --> 0:28:18.440 Not many were game enough to be pretty sure. He 0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:21.399 absolutely got into him that game and he didn't kick 0:28:21.440 --> 0:28:23.800 a goal. So we played them in the final and 0:28:23.920 --> 0:28:26.199 the rule wise coming in was that we all had 0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:29.359 to ignore Surey sure he would have hated that to 0:28:29.840 --> 0:28:32.760 not allowed to talk to Shrey. You forget what he's 0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:36.040 going to say, because Plugging, don't fall into this trap again. 0:28:36.600 --> 0:28:39.040 And then Spud went in to toss the coin, and 0:28:39.160 --> 0:28:42.440 that was when Shorey walked up and actually punched him, 0:28:42.480 --> 0:28:45.600 sort of pushed him and started yapping off at Spud 0:28:45.800 --> 0:28:48.200 at the toss of the coin. So then Spud came 0:28:48.280 --> 0:28:50.600 back to the huddle before we started, and he said, 0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:54.000 you know that plan about ignoring Surey, let's forget that. 0:28:54.240 --> 0:28:56.080 Every time he goes near to the ball punched the 0:28:56.080 --> 0:29:01.240 ship out. So he got under Sud just at the coins. 0:29:02.240 --> 0:29:05.080 Plan we'd set up the whole week were to ignore 0:29:05.160 --> 0:29:06.680 him so Plugger could kick old. 0:29:07.120 --> 0:29:09.720 Frawling and sure, we're so busy arguing that the task 0:29:09.800 --> 0:29:13.520 went on and on row when the ends were decided, 0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:16.200 it was also to prove the end for Frawley. Listen 0:29:16.360 --> 0:29:18.080 killed the skipper limped off with an achilles. 0:29:18.200 --> 0:29:19.640 I was going to ask you about the Plugger game 0:29:19.720 --> 0:29:22.280 in Sydney, which you would have thought he would have 0:29:22.320 --> 0:29:24.920 been a millium to one whoever played for Sydney. After 0:29:25.000 --> 0:29:27.560 he nearly decapitated poor old Kenny in the stands and 0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:29.960 you guys were forty eight points down with. 0:29:30.080 --> 0:29:30.800 Nine minutes the hour. 0:29:30.920 --> 0:29:33.320 It was like yeah, some ridiculous short amount of time 0:29:33.400 --> 0:29:36.600 to go and not only you win and come back 0:29:36.640 --> 0:29:36.880 and win. 0:29:37.160 --> 0:29:39.760 Yeah, got mine. I think Plager kicked eleven eleven that 0:29:40.000 --> 0:29:41.800 that game. And that was the Peter Caven. 0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:43.560 Peter, I was going to ask you about the Peter Caven. 0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:45.120 I got twenty eight weeks for that one. Yeah. 0:29:45.360 --> 0:29:54.000 Yeah, standing started side love courage shown. There's your Peter 0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:57.160 Caven left mark. Read the mark before us well. 0:29:57.680 --> 0:30:01.400 Cur the stretch. 0:30:04.120 --> 0:30:08.720 There's another little known fact. Sydney Cheersquad sit behind the 0:30:08.840 --> 0:30:11.200 guy and before the game, you're walking around. Plugger checks 0:30:11.240 --> 0:30:13.680 out the goal square and the Sydney Cheersquad were getting 0:30:13.680 --> 0:30:17.000 into him, and Pluggers turned around to one of the 0:30:17.080 --> 0:30:19.520 old guys and he's gone, I'm going to kick one 0:30:19.560 --> 0:30:22.640 straight at your head. And he watched the vide out 0:30:22.640 --> 0:30:24.600 of game. It was probably there might be the last 0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:26.880 or second last goal. He kicked the handball over the top, 0:30:27.040 --> 0:30:29.400 the low flat Plugger turns around and kicks his low 0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:33.160 flat punch straight at the cheers squad and he said 0:30:33.200 --> 0:30:35.000 after the game, he said, soon as it left my boot, 0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:37.920 I thought I've killed him. I've killed him, but the 0:30:38.000 --> 0:30:40.720 guy has killed Kenny just it was it was the 0:30:40.800 --> 0:30:45.920 old Kenny and the following year they Jason Daniels was 0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:48.080 up there at the time, Sydney player. He said, look 0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:52.280 they became best mates. Yeah, he said it was. It 0:30:52.400 --> 0:30:55.040 was a little bit strained between he and Peter cavn. 0:30:55.120 --> 0:30:58.440 Peter caven never quite got over what the Plugger did 0:30:58.520 --> 0:30:59.920 to him, and the year later I think he went 0:31:00.160 --> 0:31:03.320 moved off to Adelaide. Laden It was a little bit 0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:07.000 straying there, but yeah, that particular game we were ordinary. 0:31:07.120 --> 0:31:09.160 I think Sydney ordinary. But there were forty eight points 0:31:09.240 --> 0:31:09.880 up in the mines. 0:31:09.920 --> 0:31:12.240 All right back to David Berger's really lifted. 0:31:12.600 --> 0:31:14.400 He's been one of the players that brought He killed 0:31:14.400 --> 0:31:14.800 her right. 0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:15.880 Back, kicking off his head. 0:31:16.440 --> 0:31:18.280 You don't have to get back quickly, ten quick quicker 0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:18.960 over the top. 0:31:23.760 --> 0:31:25.000 Can go to plugger. 0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:28.840 What would happen now if if he had hit Kenny? 0:31:29.080 --> 0:31:30.760 And then what were the Affle have done? Knowing that 0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:33.240 it was probably delivered. Just you think of this the 0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:35.240 old fashion extraordinary stories in the lot of era. 0:31:35.440 --> 0:31:39.240 Yeah, yeah, as I said, he I think he got 0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:44.280 he got seven h Yeah. Yeah, these days he's probably 0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:44.880 bad for life. 0:31:45.880 --> 0:31:46.400 Ninety five. 0:31:46.560 --> 0:31:48.640 So there was talk of a merger and Carlton and 0:31:48.840 --> 0:31:52.360 probably emerged again recently with Andrew Plimpton's death. So talk 0:31:52.400 --> 0:31:54.560 about John Elliott Andrew Primpton, you know, whether it was 0:31:54.600 --> 0:31:56.160 going to be a merger not a takeover. 0:31:56.640 --> 0:32:00.280 There's pledgures of loyalty, you know. Were you part of 0:32:00.360 --> 0:32:04.240 that discussion, not rely just on the peripheral at that 0:32:04.400 --> 0:32:09.760 particular time. I don't think we ever truly thought it 0:32:09.840 --> 0:32:11.920 was going to happen. It was just too far out 0:32:11.960 --> 0:32:16.520 of the box. Clubs have far too different, different demographics, 0:32:16.560 --> 0:32:17.240 different areas. 0:32:17.280 --> 0:32:18.320 It would have been a good side. 0:32:18.600 --> 0:32:20.880 It would have been they won the flag in ninety five, 0:32:20.960 --> 0:32:24.120 you've be We've beat them. Yeah, I think we were 0:32:24.160 --> 0:32:30.040 the only team to beat them that year. And it 0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:32.360 was a bit of a catalyst for the Saints because 0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:34.720 after the end of ninety five a lot of the 0:32:34.960 --> 0:32:37.680 spud retired and Fugger had gone, and it was a 0:32:37.760 --> 0:32:40.680 real sort of changing at the Guard sort of internally 0:32:40.680 --> 0:32:43.440 at the club. The club sort of thought, you know, no, no, 0:32:43.600 --> 0:32:45.840 its merger, that we need to get serious about what 0:32:45.920 --> 0:32:48.200 we're doing and the resources we give the football club. 0:32:49.480 --> 0:32:51.840 And most people thought that we were going to be 0:32:51.840 --> 0:32:54.360 in the wilderness for half a dozen years. Because for 0:32:54.480 --> 0:32:58.560 Tony going, we got Ozzie Jones, Tony Brown, Joel Smith 0:32:58.760 --> 0:33:01.800 who happened seven year olds and I thought there guys 0:33:01.800 --> 0:33:03.440 are saints for at least half a dozen years. But 0:33:03.520 --> 0:33:05.680 we managed to turn around pretty quickly, which is something 0:33:05.720 --> 0:33:06.760 I'm probably pretty proud of. 0:33:07.240 --> 0:33:09.920 And so by that stage, Ken Sheldon's been sacked and 0:33:10.000 --> 0:33:13.440 Stan Ols comes in tell us a little bit about 0:33:13.480 --> 0:33:15.280 the transition to stand. 0:33:15.000 --> 0:33:16.000 And how that worked. 0:33:16.120 --> 0:33:18.560 Yeah, so Stan was assistant coach, and everyone generally loves 0:33:18.600 --> 0:33:21.280 you assistant coaches, so we were quite excited for Stan. 0:33:21.600 --> 0:33:26.520 Unfortunately for Kenny, Kenny made the mistake of not managing 0:33:26.640 --> 0:33:30.440 up and did the fatal mistake of saying a board members, 0:33:30.480 --> 0:33:32.360 you're not allowed to come in the rooms before the game, 0:33:32.560 --> 0:33:35.480 and you've got to keep hands length and you don't 0:33:35.600 --> 0:33:39.320 into their workspace. Bad move never works out well for 0:33:39.400 --> 0:33:42.360 coaches when they keep the board members out. And he 0:33:42.440 --> 0:33:44.680 had a guy named Peter Hudson who was his right 0:33:44.720 --> 0:33:51.640 hand man, and Huddo was assistant coach, CHAMPI selectors, marketing manager, 0:33:51.960 --> 0:33:53.000 sort of football manager. 0:33:53.280 --> 0:33:54.760 He pretty much did everything he used to do the 0:33:54.840 --> 0:33:56.560 media back then you have to used to ring him 0:33:56.600 --> 0:33:58.840 to do all to get in touch with players. 0:33:59.080 --> 0:34:02.720 It was all powerful and Kenny being the loyal person. 0:34:02.760 --> 0:34:05.120 When they came to Kenny and they said, mate, Hardo's 0:34:05.160 --> 0:34:07.320 got two power too much, He's probably going to have 0:34:07.400 --> 0:34:10.600 to go. Kenny thought, you know what, I've been in 0:34:10.640 --> 0:34:12.960 the finals two out of four years. I've got enough 0:34:13.239 --> 0:34:17.000 cachet here to say if he goes, I go. Unfortunately, 0:34:18.400 --> 0:34:20.759 work that way, I didn't have that much, and off 0:34:21.120 --> 0:34:24.040 Kenny went, which was, as I said, not many coaches 0:34:24.200 --> 0:34:27.880 at Saint Kilda to fifty percent finals record suddenly get 0:34:27.920 --> 0:34:30.239 the flick, and he did. He just didn't manage up 0:34:30.800 --> 0:34:33.759 that well. So stan came in and the best thing 0:34:33.960 --> 0:34:37.360 was what happened in ninety five to carp because Carlton 0:34:37.640 --> 0:34:40.600 on the back of David Park and giving the players ownership. 0:34:41.360 --> 0:34:43.160 You guys tell me who you want in the team. 0:34:43.200 --> 0:34:45.200 You guys tell me how you want to train. You guys, 0:34:45.239 --> 0:34:46.719 tell me how do you want to do this. Stan 0:34:46.800 --> 0:34:49.800 Al was being very savvy, picked up on that ethos 0:34:50.480 --> 0:34:53.640 and brought that into a young Saint Kilda team who 0:34:53.800 --> 0:34:57.600 were really took on that and grasped that and we 0:34:58.200 --> 0:35:02.520 we improved very very quickly because of that particular Ethos, 0:35:02.600 --> 0:35:05.640 and I think Parkin deserves a lot of credit for 0:35:05.840 --> 0:35:07.800 what he actually spread out through the rest of the 0:35:07.880 --> 0:35:09.080 league in that ninety five years. 0:35:09.080 --> 0:35:11.440 He was still a pretty tough man, stand like, oh 0:35:11.560 --> 0:35:13.120 he could give a spray about that. 0:35:13.719 --> 0:35:16.200 He give us spray with the best of them, and 0:35:16.880 --> 0:35:20.280 he got to the stage at times when he actually 0:35:20.360 --> 0:35:22.799 banned himself from speaking to us after the game really, 0:35:22.880 --> 0:35:24.520 so we'd come in, do a cool down, and we 0:35:24.640 --> 0:35:28.160 go home. And the reason was was sometimes Stan would 0:35:28.160 --> 0:35:31.239 say stuff after the match which wasn't really relevant, and 0:35:31.360 --> 0:35:33.279 he'd spend the next couple of days finding people and 0:35:33.320 --> 0:35:36.480 apologizing for what he actually said. And some of the 0:35:36.520 --> 0:35:40.440 halftime talks were simply hey, you and you in here, 0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:42.920 and you'd go into the meeting room and he'd barrow 0:35:42.960 --> 0:35:44.360 you and he'd poke his head out and he go, 0:35:44.480 --> 0:35:48.640 you and you in here, and he'd borrow them and yeah, 0:35:48.719 --> 0:35:51.239 and we figured out that that was sort of the 0:35:51.600 --> 0:35:55.040 way things operated. So he'd poke his head out and 0:35:55.040 --> 0:36:00.200 there'd be no players in the physio room so that 0:36:00.280 --> 0:36:02.360 he could find it. He couldn't find you, he couldn't 0:36:02.360 --> 0:36:05.080 bring you in and barroy you. But to his credit, 0:36:05.160 --> 0:36:07.960 he often sort of apologized and made a man afterwards, 0:36:08.000 --> 0:36:10.640 but during a game he could get quite sort of. 0:36:11.160 --> 0:36:12.520 Is it fair to say he targeted a few of 0:36:12.560 --> 0:36:14.280 the senior guys like yourself and Halves. 0:36:15.040 --> 0:36:18.200 Yeah, he's definitely more harder on his Stan was a 0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:21.080 big devotee. He was a big devotee of Lombardy, and 0:36:21.280 --> 0:36:23.680 so one of the Lombardy's things was that he would 0:36:23.760 --> 0:36:27.040 always put far more pressure on the senior. 0:36:26.760 --> 0:36:28.640 Players did the same that he did. 0:36:28.840 --> 0:36:32.239 Yeah, and then the rest of the players would go, hey, 0:36:32.360 --> 0:36:34.960 don't pick on them. There my mates, and I'm going 0:36:35.040 --> 0:36:38.640 to lift as well. That was the hope. Unfortunately, at 0:36:38.680 --> 0:36:40.000 times that was you. 0:36:40.000 --> 0:36:43.040 Know, it drove a wedge between the players and the 0:36:43.160 --> 0:36:45.640 coach rather than supporting the senior players. 0:36:45.680 --> 0:36:48.560 But yeah, no doubt. We were often the first ones 0:36:48.600 --> 0:36:49.600 that record into the room. 0:36:49.840 --> 0:36:52.680 So ninety seven, so those kids have got a couple 0:36:52.719 --> 0:36:55.520 of years of action. You start the season slowly and 0:36:55.600 --> 0:36:57.120 all of a sudden you just come with a rash 0:36:57.160 --> 0:36:58.880 and it's just the extraordinary season. 0:37:00.320 --> 0:37:00.560 Yeah. 0:37:00.719 --> 0:37:02.920 Look, I to be honest in seed coming. I think 0:37:02.960 --> 0:37:06.560 we started the year quite poorly and we won. 0:37:06.520 --> 0:37:09.000 One of the first five games. Stand trying to walk away? 0:37:09.080 --> 0:37:11.560 Is that one out of the first five, and then 0:37:11.600 --> 0:37:15.440 I think we played Melbourne out at Waverley and they 0:37:15.480 --> 0:37:17.480 were in a similar position to us. It was like 0:37:17.600 --> 0:37:20.200 who was going to Whoever lost this game, that's its 0:37:20.239 --> 0:37:23.040 season over, gone down the bottom, and we came out 0:37:23.080 --> 0:37:26.160 and we won fairly convincingly and from that point we. 0:37:26.239 --> 0:37:26.839 Just got on a roll. 0:37:26.880 --> 0:37:29.120 I think we won seventeen in a row. It was 0:37:29.239 --> 0:37:32.720 just phenomenal and the season on top of the ladder. 0:37:32.760 --> 0:37:35.080 But there was that pivotal point of that game out 0:37:35.120 --> 0:37:36.920 at Waverley and they ended up going backwards and we 0:37:37.160 --> 0:37:39.279 shot off the other way. And a lot of it 0:37:39.520 --> 0:37:44.160 came from that ninety five of parking, giving players ownership 0:37:44.320 --> 0:37:46.640 and how are we going to do things and leading 0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:48.840 teams was board in Ray MacLean and his. 0:37:49.000 --> 0:37:50.239 Particular that helped. 0:37:50.320 --> 0:37:54.400 That was good, absolutely because it puts some put some 0:37:54.960 --> 0:37:58.040 shape and rigor around the ownership. Wasn't just handed over 0:37:58.080 --> 0:38:00.880 to the bikes. It was okay, if we have the ownership, 0:38:00.920 --> 0:38:04.680 what does that look like and what are the boundaries 0:38:04.880 --> 0:38:07.279 around that ownership? And that's what a lot of the 0:38:07.440 --> 0:38:10.800 leading team stuff did. So it certainly work with a 0:38:10.960 --> 0:38:12.200 particular group we had there. 0:38:12.040 --> 0:38:14.080 And so you were surprised with how well it went 0:38:14.360 --> 0:38:16.759 in that period. And but you start getting injuries at 0:38:16.760 --> 0:38:19.440 the wrong time. Was how crucial was that you you 0:38:19.840 --> 0:38:22.960 lose Joel Smith and Big Laser who was really important 0:38:23.000 --> 0:38:25.480 from a structural point of view and to protect players 0:38:25.800 --> 0:38:26.160 as well. 0:38:26.239 --> 0:38:27.720 And then Spider Yes. 0:38:28.200 --> 0:38:29.800 The finals a pretty you haven't got a lot of 0:38:29.800 --> 0:38:30.520 big bikes. 0:38:30.320 --> 0:38:30.759 Left, have you? 0:38:31.040 --> 0:38:32.520 No, No, we didn't. 0:38:32.760 --> 0:38:35.239 And so Brett Cook came in, he was probably the 0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:37.680 third or fourth string rack at the time, actually came 0:38:37.719 --> 0:38:42.800 in and played in the Grand Final and yeah, it 0:38:43.000 --> 0:38:46.080 just I think we might have even been winning at halftime. Yeah, 0:38:46.239 --> 0:38:47.719 but we came in the rooms and we got sort 0:38:47.760 --> 0:38:50.480 of barrel at halftime thinking, hang on, are we in 0:38:50.560 --> 0:38:52.000 front not in front? 0:38:52.920 --> 0:38:55.200 What was the message there? Like you should be doing better? 0:38:55.320 --> 0:38:57.200 Or yeah, yeah, you should be doing better. There's a 0:38:57.200 --> 0:39:00.520 lot of the things we weren't doing well and we hadn't. 0:39:00.600 --> 0:39:03.600 It was like Nicki Mimmo's father passed away a couple 0:39:03.640 --> 0:39:06.200 of days prior, and Stuart Lower had his personal sort 0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:10.120 of family issues going on at the time, and yeah, 0:39:10.360 --> 0:39:14.359 it's and then yeah, the old old bloke what's his name, 0:39:14.560 --> 0:39:20.759 I don't say his name, not Darren Charman deliberately his name. 0:39:21.400 --> 0:39:25.520 He went went mad and kicked five control. We sort 0:39:25.560 --> 0:39:30.200 of had no answer for it, so no excuses. They 0:39:30.400 --> 0:39:33.080 ended up just playing a better half in the second 0:39:33.080 --> 0:39:34.399 half and we played in the first half. 0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:36.239 So you know, you think of killer Shark, which is 0:39:36.280 --> 0:39:38.320 obviously a pre match message, you think of a handball handball, 0:39:38.360 --> 0:39:40.680 you think of all the iconic messages there. How much 0:39:40.760 --> 0:39:43.080 can a halftime message shape for the psychology of you 0:39:43.320 --> 0:39:44.520 coming out us three quught a time? 0:39:45.600 --> 0:39:50.240 It can because we were still a very young group overall, 0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:53.640 so I think Stuart Lowe and I were sort of 0:39:54.000 --> 0:39:57.160 twenty six or so and Robert Aby's twenty five and 0:39:57.280 --> 0:39:59.560 so we were of the leaders of the group, so 0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:02.720 we didn't have those thirty year old to the wise 0:40:02.800 --> 0:40:03.800 heads or anything like that. 0:40:04.040 --> 0:40:08.560 So I think it just probably took an edge off. 0:40:08.719 --> 0:40:10.839 And if you're playing in the Grand Final, you take 0:40:11.080 --> 0:40:15.239 five percent off the group, well you're going to get 0:40:15.480 --> 0:40:18.239 run over. Absolutely, that's all it takes. He's at five 0:40:18.239 --> 0:40:21.960 percent edge and whichever team gets to the point first 0:40:22.120 --> 0:40:27.000 of I think we're going to lose, you know, just 0:40:27.120 --> 0:40:29.640 we did well to get here. Then you're going to 0:40:29.680 --> 0:40:31.239 fall away and I think we got to that point 0:40:31.239 --> 0:40:31.839 before they did. 0:40:31.960 --> 0:40:33.680 What stage do you reckon? You got to that point 0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:35.400 because the game was alive for a bit of that 0:40:35.880 --> 0:40:38.879 second half, wasn't it? And then it became a tide 0:40:38.960 --> 0:40:41.800 that just was too strong to stop. Was there a 0:40:41.840 --> 0:40:43.719 stage where is there a moment that you thought this 0:40:43.840 --> 0:40:44.480 is it, We're gone? 0:40:44.719 --> 0:40:46.760 And the probably. 0:40:48.000 --> 0:40:50.640 I kicked a goal at some stage in the third 0:40:51.960 --> 0:40:54.200 and I might have put a slate nine points down 0:40:54.320 --> 0:40:56.400 or something like that off the top of the head roughly, 0:40:57.120 --> 0:41:04.359 And the lack of yes, we're back in this after 0:41:04.440 --> 0:41:06.399 kicking a goal, and the lack of sort of get 0:41:06.480 --> 0:41:07.680 around him, getting around. 0:41:07.520 --> 0:41:12.759 Him down the bird what goal? 0:41:13.360 --> 0:41:14.040 Classic cop? 0:41:18.360 --> 0:41:20.400 This is we're going to be sort of pushing you 0:41:20.440 --> 0:41:23.200 know what? Uphal here? Yeah, even after kicking a goal 0:41:23.400 --> 0:41:24.520 is normally when you should be up. 0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:27.719 Oh we kicked it. Have we got another one in this? 0:41:27.800 --> 0:41:28.279 I'm not sure? 0:41:28.440 --> 0:41:30.880 And have you felt for Jamie Shanahan over the journey 0:41:30.960 --> 0:41:33.840 that he's probably copped too much of the of the 0:41:33.920 --> 0:41:37.080 criticism of the decision to play him on Jarman, which 0:41:37.239 --> 0:41:39.480 you know from from a far now and knowing what 0:41:39.600 --> 0:41:43.000 we know, probably wasn't the greatest matchup was it, No, But. 0:41:43.040 --> 0:41:45.120 I'm not sure who we had. 0:41:45.320 --> 0:41:47.799 For some reason we left a guy on Matthew Young 0:41:47.920 --> 0:41:50.680 out of the team, and Young he was a really 0:41:50.760 --> 0:41:55.239 good defender. Could he have been an option? Who else 0:41:55.360 --> 0:41:57.719 was an option? I'm not too sure. But some of 0:41:57.760 --> 0:42:00.880 those goals weren't Jamie beat one on one. It was 0:42:01.080 --> 0:42:04.040 sort of There was maybe three or four Crows plays 0:42:04.120 --> 0:42:05.839 down there, and the way that the ball came down 0:42:05.880 --> 0:42:08.239 there and the openness of the forward line that they 0:42:08.400 --> 0:42:10.560 managed to craft that. That's all on the rest of us. 0:42:12.160 --> 0:42:16.200 What a fairy time and clear the Crows if. 0:42:16.080 --> 0:42:17.040 They needed anymore. 0:42:17.640 --> 0:42:21.799 I've done the line of the last quarter, so there's 0:42:21.880 --> 0:42:23.640 nothing left now but to celebrate. 0:42:36.600 --> 0:42:40.200 Absolutely, So yeah, I hold no animosity to Jamie whatsoever. 0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:42.839 Unfortunately it was his last game the Saints. I would 0:42:42.840 --> 0:42:45.080 have loved him to have hung around for another few 0:42:45.160 --> 0:42:46.120 years and finished his career. 0:42:46.440 --> 0:42:49.200 What did Stan say after the game was obviously talk 0:42:49.239 --> 0:42:50.080 about the halftime. 0:42:51.280 --> 0:42:53.560 Was there any message? 0:42:53.560 --> 0:42:55.520 I suppose you're all shattered, your heart broken, you've had 0:42:55.520 --> 0:42:57.920 your dream crashed in a in a half a footy. 0:42:58.160 --> 0:43:00.320 Was there anything that stands out in regards to that? 0:43:00.719 --> 0:43:04.280 No, I don't remember. I remember getting up on stage 0:43:04.560 --> 0:43:09.279 at at the post game with all the fans and 0:43:09.320 --> 0:43:12.320 family and Stany said I'm hurting. I'm hurting from my boys. 0:43:13.680 --> 0:43:18.400 It was like, yeah, okay, it's not quite sure of 0:43:18.840 --> 0:43:21.480 is that really genuine or not genuine? It would have 0:43:21.520 --> 0:43:26.520 been Stands, a very sort of genuine guy, but yeah, 0:43:26.640 --> 0:43:30.440 it just didn't quite feel what we needed to hear. 0:43:30.719 --> 0:43:33.000 And so stand empowered you and stand drove you to 0:43:33.080 --> 0:43:33.680 the Grand Final. 0:43:33.719 --> 0:43:35.640 And as you say, you know, probably a better tactician 0:43:35.760 --> 0:43:38.440 maybe than Kenny, but he wasn't quite the man for 0:43:38.480 --> 0:43:39.160 you necessarily. 0:43:39.600 --> 0:43:42.680 So next year we were sort of flying at the start. 0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:45.200 You're on top after fourteen rounds, yeah, that makes sense. 0:43:46.080 --> 0:43:47.000 We fell in a hole. 0:43:48.080 --> 0:43:54.320 And the great lesson was that if you give players ownership, 0:43:55.160 --> 0:43:57.160 you can't then yanke it back when things don't start 0:43:57.200 --> 0:44:00.560 working well. And what happened was we lost a games 0:44:00.600 --> 0:44:04.240 after that sort of round fourteen, and then the ownership 0:44:04.280 --> 0:44:08.440 that we had started to get yanked back. And what 0:44:08.640 --> 0:44:13.439 happens then is you go, well, we don't trust me anymore. Yeah, 0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:17.920 it's a certain stamp, but and then you get some 0:44:18.040 --> 0:44:20.040 of the playing groups sitting back going okay, if you 0:44:20.040 --> 0:44:21.640 don't trust, well, what have you got for us? 0:44:22.480 --> 0:44:23.800 And we started to clutch at straws. 0:44:23.840 --> 0:44:27.400 We were doing meditation before before games and on the 0:44:27.440 --> 0:44:30.799 airplane flying up to Sydney and we're doing a lot 0:44:30.840 --> 0:44:33.040 of sort of weird martial arts sort of stuff and 0:44:33.320 --> 0:44:36.120 clutching at straws, not going back to Okay, this is 0:44:36.160 --> 0:44:37.439 what worked for us for a year and a half. 0:44:38.040 --> 0:44:41.080 Let's get back and do that properly. It was okay, 0:44:41.280 --> 0:44:44.160 that's not working anymore. I'll take control and here's some 0:44:44.239 --> 0:44:47.040 weird stuff. And I can just see the board we're 0:44:47.200 --> 0:44:48.960 standing around watching us lay on the floor and go 0:44:49.080 --> 0:44:56.319 to sleep before training and again standing to manage up. Well, 0:44:56.440 --> 0:44:58.520 you banned the board from coming into the rooms and 0:44:58.560 --> 0:44:59.320 all that sort of stuff. 0:44:59.400 --> 0:45:02.360 A lesson here, graphie and to keep them so with that, 0:45:02.480 --> 0:45:04.400 like you go out in straight sets. And the very 0:45:04.480 --> 0:45:07.439 next day Andrew Plmpton talks to Don Hanley to start 0:45:07.480 --> 0:45:09.080 a review that he wants finished within a week. 0:45:09.160 --> 0:45:11.160 Do you know this? Do you know that it's over 0:45:11.440 --> 0:45:15.200 at that stage? For Stan certainly brought passion excitement to 0:45:15.280 --> 0:45:17.640 the club and I left nobody no doubt as to. 0:45:17.680 --> 0:45:19.560 How I felt in terms of when we were going 0:45:19.600 --> 0:45:22.520 well and when we were going poorly and so no regrets. 0:45:22.600 --> 0:45:26.640 A group of US senior players met with Gary Colling, 0:45:27.080 --> 0:45:30.920 who was like a football manager ex saying great, and 0:45:31.480 --> 0:45:33.560 we met with him down at bo'morros and restaurant and 0:45:33.600 --> 0:45:36.759 we just sort of gave that sort of observation. That 0:45:36.920 --> 0:45:39.480 was the observation that we gave. And then I got 0:45:39.520 --> 0:45:42.759 a phone call from Andrew Plimpton the next day saying, yeah, 0:45:42.760 --> 0:45:45.319 we've done it, Burkey, We've pulled the pen and I've 0:45:45.400 --> 0:45:47.200 let him know and I've gone, what are you talking 0:45:47.280 --> 0:45:49.840 about it? And I said, well, I don't know what 0:45:50.080 --> 0:45:53.279 message Kat gave you. Our message was not Stan's got 0:45:53.360 --> 0:45:56.160 to go. Stan had a lot of great qualities, but 0:45:56.640 --> 0:46:02.640 Stan just needed to be given boundaries. And I said, well, 0:46:02.680 --> 0:46:05.279 why have you done it? You said, oh, we need 0:46:05.320 --> 0:46:07.799 a good bike. We need a good bike, good blow 0:46:07.840 --> 0:46:09.799 because they've got a good coach. We need a good blake. 0:46:09.840 --> 0:46:10.520 We need a good bike. 0:46:10.640 --> 0:46:11.560 I was going to say, there's not a lot of 0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:15.000 good blokes so were senior coaches. That's not true, lunatics, 0:46:15.000 --> 0:46:16.279 but the balance isn't there. 0:46:16.719 --> 0:46:18.120 We need a good bike and we're going to get 0:46:18.120 --> 0:46:18.600 you a good bike. 0:46:18.960 --> 0:46:22.080 In that particular role, and the good blake they got 0:46:22.239 --> 0:46:24.920 was with Tim Watson, who, yes, it's the quality of 0:46:25.040 --> 0:46:27.960 a good bike, a good bike, who had the grounding 0:46:28.320 --> 0:46:32.399 of you know, I've gone on a pathway to become 0:46:32.440 --> 0:46:34.640 a senior coach and I've done the assistants job, and 0:46:34.760 --> 0:46:37.319 I've got a game plan that I reckon is going 0:46:37.400 --> 0:46:40.120 to win. That wasn't part of the good black package 0:46:41.000 --> 0:46:43.640 and within two years were blasted on the ladder. 0:46:43.880 --> 0:46:46.160 So the frustrations for you of knowing it at various 0:46:46.160 --> 0:46:48.720 points in your security career you had very good sides. 0:46:48.760 --> 0:46:50.839 I'm not sure if they were great sides, but again, 0:46:50.880 --> 0:46:52.520 every time you felt you were close to the summit 0:46:52.600 --> 0:46:54.080 there that you know it was own goals. 0:46:54.200 --> 0:46:57.000 Yeah, yeah, it's this. We need someone else to put 0:46:57.000 --> 0:46:57.799 the icing on the cake. 0:46:58.239 --> 0:46:58.439 Yeah. 0:46:59.080 --> 0:47:04.239 Never. I look at Geelong who went backwards with the 0:47:04.280 --> 0:47:06.279 Chris Scott but said, you know what, we're going to 0:47:06.320 --> 0:47:09.920 put something around him and make it work. And you 0:47:10.000 --> 0:47:15.640 know he's got enough good qualities. We can build hard work, Yeah, hardware. 0:47:16.040 --> 0:47:18.279 Should we sack him, shack him? No, let's support him. 0:47:18.520 --> 0:47:20.840 We've got build on his good qualities and put some 0:47:20.960 --> 0:47:23.719 support around him. What would have happened if they had 0:47:23.840 --> 0:47:28.719 done that to Ken Sheldon or Stan Elves later on 0:47:28.800 --> 0:47:33.440 down the line, Grand Thomas. All of those three in 0:47:33.560 --> 0:47:37.800 particular had the makings of a great coach. Given the 0:47:37.880 --> 0:47:41.000 right support, given the right background, what could we have done? 0:47:41.080 --> 0:47:44.200 But Saint Kilda's history has always been no, we need 0:47:44.239 --> 0:47:45.680 someone else to put the icing on the cake. And 0:47:45.719 --> 0:47:48.880 I'm a little bit concerned about the sort of the 0:47:49.040 --> 0:47:53.840 Ratten and Lion situation. There is this is itself and 0:47:53.960 --> 0:47:56.840 that's going to worry you because has got a history 0:47:56.840 --> 0:47:57.520 of this, haven't. 0:47:57.360 --> 0:47:59.720 They At the moment, it's probably a history of repeating itself. 0:48:00.560 --> 0:48:01.600 And that's a challenge, isn't it that? 0:48:01.800 --> 0:48:01.920 You know? 0:48:02.280 --> 0:48:04.880 I think Ratten clearly in his last ten weeks was 0:48:04.920 --> 0:48:08.800 not coaching beautifully, but there was so much good in it. 0:48:08.840 --> 0:48:10.640 And there was so much great stuff in Brett Ratton 0:48:10.640 --> 0:48:11.080 as a coach. 0:48:11.160 --> 0:48:15.080 Yeah, yeah, had look speaking from experience now, when you've 0:48:15.160 --> 0:48:19.320 got a looming am I going to be here? It 0:48:19.560 --> 0:48:23.080 does affect a coach. It absolutely affects a coach because 0:48:23.160 --> 0:48:25.799 it's their livelihood. And to be a coach, you've got 0:48:25.840 --> 0:48:28.120 to put one hundred and ten percent into being a 0:48:28.239 --> 0:48:31.000 coach and you can't do it any other way. I 0:48:31.080 --> 0:48:33.200 can't do it half as And when you've got looming, 0:48:34.120 --> 0:48:35.640 you know, am I going to be here? 0:48:35.680 --> 0:48:36.480 Am I going to be here? 0:48:36.520 --> 0:48:39.839 I'm going to get the chop? And I've presidents given 0:48:39.840 --> 0:48:43.120 me a call? What does that mean that that's taking 0:48:43.160 --> 0:48:45.480 a lot of focus away from being the best coaching 0:48:45.600 --> 0:48:46.080 that you can be. 0:48:46.560 --> 0:48:47.800 Thanks for listening to Sacked. 0:48:47.960 --> 0:48:50.960 This podcast is made possible thanks to subscribers to The 0:48:51.040 --> 0:48:53.719 Herald Sun. To find out more, go to Heroldsun dot 0:48:53.840 --> 0:48:56.759 com dot au or download the Herald Sun app at 0:48:56.800 --> 0:48:57.480 your app store.