Speaker 1: I'd people say that, you know, if I wasn't one
Speaker 1: of the boys, and if I didn't buy into the culture,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't make it as an AFL player. So that
Speaker 1: was going to affect my ability to perform. Ultimately, what
Speaker 1: I found was that I could actually do both. I
Speaker 1: could show all those traits on the field and be
Speaker 1: the loving parent, be the caring husband. I could be
Speaker 1: someone who was a really great friend to people.
Speaker 2: I'm John Ralph and I'm Glenn MacFarlane.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Sacked, a podcast that explores what really happens
Speaker 3: when the X falls in the AFL world. Will take
Speaker 3: you behind the scenes with some of the biggest names
Speaker 3: in football and find out how they found out their
Speaker 3: time was up and who pulled the trigger.
Speaker 2: Today, footy done differently. The Ben Brown story.
Speaker 4: There was no more consistent key forward in the AFL
Speaker 4: from twenty seventeen to twenty nineteen than North Melbourne's Ben Brown,
Speaker 4: and yet at the conclusion of the twenty twenty season,
Speaker 4: he was out the door at Arden Street, devoid of
Speaker 4: confidence and searching for a new home.
Speaker 2: Fast forward another twelve months.
Speaker 4: And he just kicked three goals as his new team,
Speaker 4: Melbourne stormed home to win the twenty twenty one flag.
Speaker 4: A crazy year or just parf of the course for
Speaker 4: the unlikely footy star from Tazzy who always did footy
Speaker 4: a bit differently.
Speaker 2: Ben Brown, Welcome to the podcast, mate, thanks for coming.
Speaker 5: In, Thanks very much.
Speaker 4: Played one hundred and seventy five games, three hundred and
Speaker 4: sixty goals, Ralphie, two AFL clubs, a drought breaking premiership,
Speaker 4: four time club leading goalkicker, multiple runner up in the
Speaker 4: Coleman Medal.
Speaker 2: It's a great record. What do you think about when
Speaker 2: you think about your career.
Speaker 4: What's the one defining moment other than the Grand Final?
Speaker 1: Oh, defining moment, I think it was I think about
Speaker 1: draft day, to be honest. It was, you know, four
Speaker 1: drafts that took me to get to the level, and
Speaker 1: I think you know that you know, that relief in
Speaker 1: some ways, but that pure excitement I think that everyone
Speaker 1: would have felt when they were every AFL player would
Speaker 1: feel when they get drafted. I still remember that sitting
Speaker 1: there with my mum and dad and my grandma and
Speaker 1: how excited they were. And yeah, that was sort of
Speaker 1: the moment that kicked it all off, and it was
Speaker 1: you know, over a period of years and having to
Speaker 1: put all that time and effort in and yeah, that's
Speaker 1: pretty cool memory.
Speaker 3: So you're Tasmanian Royalty because granddad Jym is a footy
Speaker 3: star and a leading politician. Of course, uncle James part
Speaker 3: of his own great baking flag. Yeah when did that
Speaker 3: draft aspiration?
Speaker 5: When was it unearthed? Didn't you tell us to tell
Speaker 5: us about those early years?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I only played. I played a whole heap of
Speaker 1: sport growing up and just loved sport of any kind.
Speaker 1: A lot of basketball in their cricket, tennis, wherever he
Speaker 1: hit my hands. On footy. I played school footy until
Speaker 1: I was in grade ten in Devenport and after that
Speaker 1: point we didn't have a school team, so that's when
Speaker 1: I went and played at Devenport Club. Joined up in
Speaker 1: grade eleven and just yeah, enjoyed my footy. I didn't
Speaker 1: think that i'd i'd ever make it to a high level.
Speaker 1: I would have absolutely loved to more than anything, being
Speaker 1: a being a sport loving kid growing up, but I
Speaker 1: never thought that I'd get to the highest level. But
Speaker 1: it was probably a teacher I had at school that
Speaker 1: said you should go and maybe try out for the
Speaker 1: Tazzy Mariners and the out sixteen's and you know, go
Speaker 1: along to some trials, and so I did that and
Speaker 1: was selected a couple of those teams, and I remember
Speaker 1: it was my top age, my top age under eighteen's. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I played as a ruck all my life and I
Speaker 1: got the opportunity to play Ford a couple of times
Speaker 1: and another ruck they wanted a trial and I kicked
Speaker 1: a few goals in a couple of games. And then,
Speaker 1: as you do when you're a seventeen year old in
Speaker 1: that area, go on to Big Footy, and.
Speaker 2: Of course that's what you're doing.
Speaker 1: And I saw my name popping up, people saying, oh
Speaker 1: this guy from Tazzy, this big, weird looking fell at.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, no TikTok. But big Footy forums were definitely thing,
Speaker 1: and we get a couple of stories out of there,
Speaker 1: and yeah, that sort of lit the fire. I mean,
Speaker 1: I had the biggest roller coaster you'd ever imagined. Because
Speaker 1: I didn't think I was a chance of being drafted.
Speaker 1: I had maybe three good games in the in the
Speaker 1: Championships and thought, oh, it might be a thing here,
Speaker 1: and then I did MACL did a c L.
Speaker 4: Yeah, twenty ten or twenty ten. It was a game
Speaker 4: against was it NT, Yeah, game against NT, I think
Speaker 4: I was. I think I maybe rocked against Stephen May
Speaker 4: that day or maybe that was another game I'm thinking of.
Speaker 4: But and it was actually a teammate ran through. It
Speaker 4: was Jimmy Webster. So Jimmy, thanks mate. But yeah, that
Speaker 4: it was almost that moment though, I think was another
Speaker 4: really key moment for me, because after that moment, I
Speaker 4: didn't I didn't play any more basketball. After that point,
Speaker 4: I went, I want to I want to make it
Speaker 4: to the next level in football.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I put everything I could into my into my rehab,
Speaker 1: and yeah, another another four drafts that took me.
Speaker 4: But yeah, that's that heartbreaking to watch, to listen to
Speaker 4: drafts that probably was was was it on TV then?
Speaker 4: I'm it would have been on TV then, And yeah,
Speaker 4: I have your name called out.
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I remember watching it, watching the picks
Speaker 1: roll through on a laptop. Yeah, in my room, and
Speaker 1: then the picks had go through and your name wasn't called.
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, I better go back to studying
Speaker 1: for my exams.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it was definitely.
Speaker 5: Any of those three drafts clubs interested interviewing you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had a I remember after the rookie draft
Speaker 1: in my draft year, I've done macy L so I'd
Speaker 1: gone to the combines, the State Combine I think it was,
Speaker 1: and I was in Melbourne actually for the rookie draft
Speaker 1: and having a couple of weeks staying with my staying
Speaker 1: with my uncle actually remember Derek Hein and I think
Speaker 1: it might have been Jason Taylor then was it Collingwood.
Speaker 1: About an hour or two after the rookie draft, they
Speaker 1: drove out to my uncle's officers in Cheltenham and sat
Speaker 1: me down and said we'd like to have you a
Speaker 1: part of the VFL program or do all of your
Speaker 1: rehab through the club. And I turned them down and
Speaker 1: said I wanted to stay in Tazzy so playing a Magpie. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember having that conversation and me, as a seventeen
Speaker 1: eighteen year old, went, no, I want to I want
Speaker 1: to do it myself and do it on my own
Speaker 1: merits and not sort of be need a club to
Speaker 1: Whether that was the right or wrong thing to do
Speaker 1: at the time, I don't know, but yeah, went back
Speaker 1: to Tazzy and back to senior footy at Glenorky footy club.
Speaker 2: And how was it playing over there?
Speaker 4: You're playing against men as you're coming through in a
Speaker 4: lot of ways there And what brought you across was
Speaker 4: that the promise of North was aligned to Worry at
Speaker 4: the time. But was there any promise there that you
Speaker 4: come across you're at ans or was it just on
Speaker 4: Specky decided to come across a little bit later.
Speaker 1: No, No, I wanted to play senior footy and tazzy
Speaker 1: and have that opportunity to play against bigger bodies, get
Speaker 1: and get used to that. I did have to play
Speaker 1: as a ruckman primarily down there, and that was probably
Speaker 1: the thing that I got to the point where I went,
Speaker 1: I'm probably not going to make it to the next
Speaker 1: level as a ruck and I need to play as
Speaker 1: a ford. And it was actually Mark Stone, good good
Speaker 1: weerriby man and lovely, lovely human who came down over
Speaker 1: a couple of couple of years. He came down I
Speaker 1: think it was the end of twenty eleven, maybe the
Speaker 1: end of twenty twelve, and I said thanks very much,
Speaker 1: but no thanks. And then the following year had another
Speaker 1: coffee with me and said I think should come and
Speaker 1: have a trial at werribe and so I did really
Speaker 1: liked it, decided this is my opportunity to move across.
Speaker 1: Scottie West sold me the world and he was going
Speaker 1: to said he was going to play me as a
Speaker 1: key forward and a few too didn't. Yeah, that year
Speaker 1: we were a tall forward line. I think it's ever existed.
Speaker 1: We had Magic Door and Daniel Curry coming back from North.
Speaker 1: We had young Mason Wood playing in that team. Ben
Speaker 1: McKinley and Ben Warren were in that team and somehow
Speaker 1: they fit me there as well. And yeah, that year
Speaker 1: was that year was probably what gave me that opportunity
Speaker 1: to play as a key ford and show what I
Speaker 1: could do. The Foxtel Cup as well, was that year.
Speaker 1: I got a couple of opportunities in that. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a really interesting year. And the alignment with
Speaker 1: North Melbourne, I suppose I was under their eye quite
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 3: So you celebrate your twenty first. They eventually take you
Speaker 3: at forty seven in the draft. What's that draft night like?
Speaker 3: Given as you say, you'd watched the laptop and been
Speaker 3: overlooked so often before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd had a chat to a couple of clubs
Speaker 1: and so I thought maybe this was my best opportunity. Actually,
Speaker 1: I had a call from Adrian the door about an
Speaker 1: hour or so before the draft saying like maybe strap in.
Speaker 1: So I that was the most confident I've been, but
Speaker 1: I'd sat through three drafts. I didn't want to take anything.
Speaker 5: It gives a lot of promises.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I've actually spoken to Cam Joyce since he
Speaker 1: was the the list manager at the time about because
Speaker 1: I asked him about it years later, because I remember
Speaker 1: they sat there for a minute and had a discussion.
Speaker 1: I remember asking him like, what was that discussion that
Speaker 1: you had and a little in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I was just interested. And he said that they
Speaker 1: were tossing up between me and Joel Tippett at that
Speaker 1: at that pick, and I ended up getting Joel in
Speaker 1: the in the rookie draft. Yeah, so he said they
Speaker 1: got the best of both worlds there. But yeah, that
Speaker 1: was that was interesting. I remember sitting and I had
Speaker 1: back in the day they used to read out the
Speaker 1: readout the number, the player number, six digit registration. They
Speaker 1: famously got Buddy wrong. I'm pretty sure taking yeah, the
Speaker 1: registration number. So I remember I'd memorized my my registration number.
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you what it was now, but I
Speaker 1: remember hearing the number and like, here we go that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that feeling was up there to.
Speaker 4: Celebrate with your family as well. I think your name
Speaker 4: was there, your five younger brothers, is that right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah it was bad and yeah, my five younger brothers.
Speaker 1: So it was me and my mum and dad and
Speaker 1: my grandma sitting sitting in front of the telly and
Speaker 1: and watching that play out. I think my brothers were
Speaker 1: scattered around the house. They sort of started watching it
Speaker 1: and then lost. Interesting they get to pick forty seven. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: they didn't quite make it, so but that yeah, it
Speaker 1: was so exciting, awesome.
Speaker 2: And he's straight off to Utah after that? Is that? Like?
Speaker 4: How weird is that kid from Tazzy gets drafted after
Speaker 4: you know, missing a number of drafts and then he's.
Speaker 2: Off to Utah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah it was. It was straight off to Utah
Speaker 1: within a few days. So I think I had to
Speaker 1: organize a passport at short notice. I never traveled overseas before,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, it was straight into it.
Speaker 2: That was it over there? Sorry? How was it over there?
Speaker 1: Yeah? It was interesting. I walked straight into a room
Speaker 1: I was roomed with Robin Nahas my first my first
Speaker 1: time there. They actually the guys said, you've got to play.
Speaker 1: The first thing you've got to do is you've got
Speaker 1: to play our worst FIFA player. And they set me
Speaker 1: up because Robin Nahas was one of the best fifty
Speaker 1: players in Australia at the time and he played around
Speaker 1: with me for a bit. But yeah, no, I remember
Speaker 1: my very first night with with was he I said,
Speaker 1: if you've got any issues. I was a bit of
Speaker 1: a snorer. I said, if you've got any issues, like
Speaker 1: just you know, wake me up, throw a pillow at
Speaker 1: me and I reckon. It was within twenty minutes of
Speaker 1: falling asleep, pillow in the face and Robin moved out
Speaker 1: of the room next the next night. So I had
Speaker 1: a ruin myself, which wasn't the worst thing.
Speaker 3: So Heatha locked on who as the media manager at
Speaker 3: the time and there with basketball. He said, oh, this
Speaker 3: guy's going to be a new cult here. Where did
Speaker 3: the hair come from? Where did the long run up
Speaker 3: come from? Idiosyncratic? But that was you and you were
Speaker 3: determined to keep all of those parts of your character
Speaker 3: and your football identity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the hair came about because I'd moved out of
Speaker 1: home and my mum couldn't tell me to go and
Speaker 1: get a haircut anymore. So I grew it out and
Speaker 1: it was honestly, it was probably laziness more than anything
Speaker 1: else that I didn't want to go and go to
Speaker 1: the barber. My long run up was I think, as
Speaker 1: I said, I was a rock growing up, so I
Speaker 1: never really developed anything as a set shot routine. So
Speaker 1: I developed it quite late on would have been at
Speaker 1: Glenorky Footy Club. I started it. It started out more
Speaker 1: robotic than it ended up, believe it or not. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it was something I sort of yeah with the coaches
Speaker 1: at Clonorkey Footy Club and then Keenan Reynolds. Was it
Speaker 1: at where you when I was there? And yeah, it
Speaker 1: just that's what felt comfortable to me for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: It was more basic than it looked. It was run straight,
Speaker 1: kick straight, follow through straight. If I do everything straight,
Speaker 1: the ball should go straight. That's that was it. That
Speaker 1: was the that was the basis of it. Did you
Speaker 1: ever think about did you ever trial with shortening it?
Speaker 3: Because you had such a lovely action technically when ball
Speaker 3: hit boot, But did you ever you know, well, I'll
Speaker 3: go exactly the same ratio because it was long and
Speaker 3: it was almost labored.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. I think I had a mental checklist
Speaker 1: along with a physical checklist, if it makes sense, when
Speaker 1: I went back from my for my shots. So I
Speaker 1: think it was important for me to sort of follow
Speaker 1: through and be able to tick that off. And for me,
Speaker 1: it was more about knowing that I'd done the work
Speaker 1: and knowing that what I was doing was setting me
Speaker 1: up to kick well and to calm myself down on
Speaker 1: game day. So knowing that I had a routine and
Speaker 1: that routine, as you said, it was weird, but it
Speaker 1: made me feel comfortable. So it made me feel like
Speaker 1: I'd done the work, So that was the most important.
Speaker 4: You made you Taboo round fourteen, twenty fourteen versus Melbourne
Speaker 4: wearing the now famous or soon to be famous number fifty.
Speaker 4: You're twenty one, almost twenty two, your last minute inclusion
Speaker 4: for Robbie Tarrant. You're playing with a young bloke called
Speaker 4: Brent Harvey who's thirty six and has played three hundred
Speaker 4: and seventy five. Tell us about your memories of that
Speaker 4: day and kicking the goal. You made a bit of
Speaker 4: a tribute I think to your grandfather, didn't you tell
Speaker 4: us about that and what that meant to you?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Family, Yeah, I was nervous. I was so incredibly yes,
Speaker 1: you know, first game on the MCG. North didn't play
Speaker 1: on the MCG much either, so to get that opportunity
Speaker 1: to play on the MCG, I took my first first
Speaker 1: mark and first kicked pretty much right in the center
Speaker 1: of the ground, which was which was incredibly cool. I
Speaker 1: think I settled into the game about maybe half of
Speaker 1: the way, halfway through the third quarter.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was playing on Lyndon Dunn, who I had
Speaker 1: a lot of battles with over the years and was
Speaker 1: a real pest to play on. I'll talk to him
Speaker 1: about this, but yeah, I just remember taking a mark
Speaker 1: and everyone's telling me to go back and have a shot.
Speaker 5: It went pretty straight. They take the march first shot
Speaker 5: a goal. But he is really working the cameras here.
Speaker 5: This is the longest run up with him.
Speaker 6: Twenty one year old Ben Brown. His first goal has
Speaker 6: plenty Brenny six with a goal and the Roswie by
Speaker 6: forty four points.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was it was important, particularly I think
Speaker 1: for my from my grandma and my pop who was
Speaker 1: you know, as you said, a player in Tasmania who
Speaker 1: played a lot of games and a big, big personality
Speaker 1: I suppose, and just to show that, you know, he'd
Speaker 1: been part of that experience, but you know, passed away
Speaker 1: in twenty ten and he never got to see that
Speaker 1: first goal.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that was what the tribute was for. And
Speaker 3: he passed away in really challenging circumstances. That house was
Speaker 3: ransacked and he went down and had a look at
Speaker 3: it and then came back up and had a heart attack.
Speaker 5: Is that right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. He was an avid collector, had if
Speaker 1: you went into his dar, I want to call it
Speaker 1: like just bookshelves on bookshelves of stamps and postcards and
Speaker 1: everything you can name. My mum's still going through it
Speaker 1: to this day, fifteen years later, and so yeah, I
Speaker 1: think the fact that someone had broken into the house,
Speaker 1: you know, that was pretty stressful. Had a bit of
Speaker 1: a weak hard as it was, and yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was a pretty tough time obviously for my grandma,
Speaker 1: who's one of the most amazing women you'll ever meet.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that was that.
Speaker 3: The first one was for her. It's a good side.
Speaker 3: Brad Scott's up and running Pem Harvey's flying. What's it
Speaker 3: like being thrown into that Arden street environment there with
Speaker 3: I assume lots of strong personalities and yeah, an expectation
Speaker 3: to perform.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. I actually found my first couple of
Speaker 1: years at AFL level pretty tough in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: probably didn't fit the mold of your typical AFL player,
Speaker 1: and at times, yeah, found that environment challenging. Not necessarily
Speaker 1: for you know, that was anyone's fault. I think it
Speaker 1: was just that I was twenty one, twenty two and
Speaker 1: still figuring out who I was as a person and
Speaker 1: who I wanted to be, and yeah, and found that
Speaker 1: challenging at times. I think that in terms of the
Speaker 1: footy side of things, that it was an incredibly committed team.
Speaker 1: You know, some really amazing athletes that I was able
Speaker 1: to be a part of. And so to have that
Speaker 1: experience in terms of learning what it was like to
Speaker 1: be an AFL player and the professionalism that was required,
Speaker 1: I had a lot of really good role models in
Speaker 1: that sense that sort of pushed me along and pushed
Speaker 1: me to become a better player. So, you know, the
Speaker 1: likes of Drew Petree when I came to the club.
Speaker 1: To be able to learn off someone of that caliber
Speaker 1: who was probably in the back part of his career,
Speaker 1: but you know, taught me so much and to have
Speaker 1: some you know, I'd mentioned Mason Wood before, but you
Speaker 1: know it was one of the most professional players from
Speaker 1: really really young age and really incredibly driven. So to
Speaker 1: have someone like that that wanted to play a similar
Speaker 1: spot to you, and yeah, it was definitely the drive
Speaker 1: was there to sort of get to get better. And
Speaker 1: now watching the heights that Mason's been able to get
Speaker 1: to the in this part of his career has been
Speaker 1: has been great to see too.
Speaker 3: You've got a pretty strong moral code. I imagine the
Speaker 3: locker room's pretty blokey place. It's probably a misogynous place
Speaker 3: at times. What's alike when you're twenty one, so you're
Speaker 3: not a kid you want to call stuff out? You
Speaker 3: probably don't at times. There's other times yet understand your
Speaker 3: walk past the ones you accept. What's that like for
Speaker 3: a lot of people, you know, given that Collingwood's locker
Speaker 3: room was changing, Yeah, what's the dynamic?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it absolutely was. I think, as I said, a
Speaker 1: lot of really positive things about being in a football environment.
Speaker 1: This is not exclusive to North Melbourne at that stage
Speaker 1: by any means, But yeah, it was something that I
Speaker 1: had to come to terms with. It's like what standards
Speaker 1: do I actually want to want to walk past and
Speaker 1: which ones? Which ones am I accepting? And it took me, yeah,
Speaker 1: a long time to come to terms with that and
Speaker 1: to I suppose learn There's a lot of listening and
Speaker 1: learning I think from you know, the women in my life,
Speaker 1: also other men within football clubs that I found as
Speaker 1: I started to understand a bit more about the stats
Speaker 1: around finance against women and about the kind of cultures
Speaker 1: that lead to violence and to disrespect, and it was
Speaker 1: it was a lot of a lot of listening to
Speaker 1: people and understanding that a lot of the a lot
Speaker 1: of other men in those environments are feeling uncomfortable and
Speaker 1: about certain things. Again, not everything being a negative, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I sort of learned that there are a lot more
Speaker 1: AFL players, staff members within football clubs that actually that
Speaker 1: felt like the environments and cultures needed to change. And
Speaker 1: so that was a lot of the learning that I
Speaker 1: did in that space probably led me to that point
Speaker 1: where I was more comfortable speaking out and was more
Speaker 1: comfortable being that person within football clubs.
Speaker 3: You can blow back at times because even from twenty
Speaker 3: fifteen to where we are now and now you're just
Speaker 3: in coach at Esen AND's afi W side and there's
Speaker 3: so much more awaren than of that. Yeah, So what's
Speaker 3: how challenge challenging is it? When you would I assume
Speaker 3: you call people out?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think it was. Actually I got less resistance and
Speaker 1: backlash than what I thought I would probably as a
Speaker 1: twenty one year old. I felt like, you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of social pressures, as most of us do, anyone,
Speaker 1: not just men. A lot of people feel those social
Speaker 1: pressures that I felt. I think as I got more
Speaker 1: comfortable with myself and was more comfortable and just expressing
Speaker 1: the person that I was, the more people accepted that, Yep,
Speaker 1: this is the way Ben is, and you know that
Speaker 1: that sort of helped me to be in those situations.
Speaker 1: I think too. The thing I always come back to is,
Speaker 1: as I said, the stats around violence against women in Australia,
Speaker 1: the stats around you know, sexual harassment that women experience.
Speaker 1: I think the discomfort that men feel there is an
Speaker 1: element that we need to get comfortable being uncomfortable in
Speaker 1: that space because it's actually important enough I think the
Speaker 1: thing too, I'd say, is that a couple of things
Speaker 1: on this that we've got. We've got an issue in
Speaker 1: this country with men's mental health too, and the kind
Speaker 1: of cultures that we've bred that our society has bred
Speaker 1: that aren't any again, aren't anyone's fault, but it's actually
Speaker 1: not serving men either.
Speaker 3: And clearly they're connected the two, aren't they The mental
Speaker 3: health compared to the domestic violence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, we see that. The other thing I'd say
Speaker 1: is that there and I talk a lot about men
Speaker 1: and masculinities, and we hear a lot about toxic masculinity
Speaker 1: at the moment. That's a bit of a buzzword. I
Speaker 1: think that is a bit of a misnomer. I think
Speaker 1: there are there are elements of traditional masculinity that I
Speaker 1: think are really important, and that there are times where
Speaker 1: being stoic, being strong, being respectful, being courageous, all of
Speaker 1: these things are incredibly important in certain aspects. I'd say
Speaker 1: the problem is when we expect ourselves to be that
Speaker 1: way all the time, or we expect our mates to
Speaker 1: be that way all the time, and that we lose
Speaker 1: their elements of tenderness and care and you know, listening
Speaker 1: to other people all of these aspects as well. I
Speaker 1: think finding that there's a time and a place for
Speaker 1: all of these things. That was the point that I
Speaker 1: got to in particularly my football career, because people said
Speaker 1: that if you're not strong and courageous and stoic all
Speaker 1: the time, you won't make it as an AFL player,
Speaker 1: which for me came back to my experience of football.
Speaker 1: You know, I had people say that, you know, if
Speaker 1: I wasn't one of the boys and if I didn't
Speaker 1: buy to the culture, I wouldn't make it as an
Speaker 1: AFL player. So that was going to affect my ability
Speaker 1: to perform. Ultimately, what I found was that I could
Speaker 1: actually do both. I could be the I don't think
Speaker 1: I was the strongest and toughest player on the field,
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, But I could show all those
Speaker 1: traits on the field and be the loving parent, be
Speaker 1: the caring husband. I could be someone who was a
Speaker 1: really great friend to people, who cared about my teammates
Speaker 1: in a way that the people found, you know, that's
Speaker 1: me and that's the way I do.
Speaker 3: You didn't have to go to the pub till three am.
Speaker 3: You didn't have to make comments. How's the AFL experience,
Speaker 3: afl W experience across ten years. Has that instructed how
Speaker 3: much better those locker rooms are, because sometimes you've got
Speaker 3: to see it to bet You've just got to be
Speaker 3: around these AFLW girls to learn what is acceptable in
Speaker 3: the locker room.
Speaker 1: I think again, like people have asked me a lot,
Speaker 1: like what's it like for the male players? Do they
Speaker 1: get started? That was one thing that I think was
Speaker 1: a real positive for me in terms of being involved
Speaker 1: in the male environment. Afl W came in and the
Speaker 1: amount of support that male player have for for afl
Speaker 1: W athletes is huge. I think a lot of the
Speaker 1: a lot of the commentary about the issues with afl
Speaker 1: W is coming from outside the AFL landscape. Within football clubs,
Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of respect for each other and
Speaker 1: I've seen that from you know, all of the clubs
Speaker 1: that I've been a part of. There's there's none of
Speaker 1: the talk that that some people might expect within football clubs,
Speaker 1: and yeah, the rest the respect is really mutual there. Now,
Speaker 1: do we still have work to do in terms of
Speaker 1: the systems and structures around football clubs to allow to
Speaker 1: allow athletes to succeed on the same level. Absolutely, but
Speaker 1: you've seen an evolution in that. I've seen it. I've
Speaker 1: seen an evolution in it. We still have long we
Speaker 1: still have a lot of work to do to get
Speaker 1: all of that, to get all of that right. At
Speaker 1: the end of the day, I think, I think about
Speaker 1: my I think about my daughters, and I just I
Speaker 1: want them to have the same opportunities to succeed in
Speaker 1: not only just football but in life. Why should we
Speaker 1: I always come back to what kind of society we
Speaker 1: wanted to create, not about which football team do you
Speaker 1: want to go watch on the weekend. It's actually bigger
Speaker 1: than that, or which competition do you favor, It's actually
Speaker 1: bigger than that. What do we want our society to
Speaker 1: look like? What do we want our opportunities to be
Speaker 1: like for our young girls and women in Australia. And
Speaker 1: that's where AFLW has given has given people not just
Speaker 1: access to high level footy, but what it's done for
Speaker 1: my girls going to OZ kick on the on a
Speaker 1: Friday night you know where I live. What it's done
Speaker 1: for local footy, what it's done for talent pathways for girls.
Speaker 1: These are things that are far more important than you know.
Speaker 1: I love my AFLW players.
Speaker 5: It's incredible.
Speaker 1: That's the stuff that that's why AFOW is important. It's
Speaker 1: not for it's not for the pay grade necessarily. The
Speaker 1: women I wanted to be paid more. I think they
Speaker 1: should be. I think they should be a full time
Speaker 1: athletes all of that. But that's that's almost secondary in
Speaker 1: my mind.
Speaker 3: We'll talk about the FLW again. Tell us about that
Speaker 3: first year. So four goals in your first final. It's
Speaker 3: your ninth game, elimination final against Essen, and you're thrown
Speaker 3: right into the cut and thrust of it, and yeah,
Speaker 3: you dominate.
Speaker 1: Ah, that was. Yeah. You talk about moments that I
Speaker 1: remember forever. Yeah, that was. That was unbelievable to be
Speaker 1: part of that, to be part of that experience. I
Speaker 1: still remember kicking a goal in the third quarter, and
Speaker 1: I can take myself back to the feeling of because
Speaker 1: we were in the midst of a huge comeback at.
Speaker 2: That forty odd points.
Speaker 1: Now, yeah it was forty odd points down, we were
Speaker 1: we were nowhere in that game.
Speaker 2: Three in that third quarter too.
Speaker 5: Thirty three points down early in the third term, and.
Speaker 2: Then he comes out and kicked three in seven minutes.
Speaker 6: Ben this to get it back to nine points Brown
Speaker 6: with these third God, he's got it, he has got it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was I think it was after the third.
Speaker 1: I still remember the feeling of the felt like the
Speaker 1: stadium was shaking. Maybe that was just me, but the
Speaker 1: excitement of being in that moment that was that. You know,
Speaker 1: twenty one year old, that's just fresh into it and yeah,
Speaker 1: so exciting to come back and win that game and
Speaker 1: just to be I still remember. The other moment I
Speaker 1: remember is Drew's second goal and he banandaed it from
Speaker 1: forty five and just running like a lunatic towards him.
Speaker 1: We're going to win. We're going to win this game. Yes,
Speaker 1: I remember that game.
Speaker 2: I got a great quote from John Ralph.
Speaker 4: Here, of all people, the blue and white stripes on
Speaker 4: the front of their North Melbourne jumpers are the only
Speaker 4: qualities linking Wayne Carey and Ben Brown. One was the strutting,
Speaker 4: glorious exhibit of football royalty, and the other is the
Speaker 4: Gorky side show Bob look alike from Donorky versus via Werribee.
Speaker 4: Yet as the mcg crowd feasted on an epic second half,
Speaker 4: it was Brown masquerading as North Melbourne's latest finals Here
Speaker 4: it was a big moment for you, really, wasn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you had the club of course, but for.
Speaker 1: You, well it I questioned along the journey, as I said,
Speaker 1: like whether I actually belonged at the level or not,
Speaker 1: and that showed me that I could do it and
Speaker 1: probably helped to springboard myself on from there.
Speaker 3: That finals campaigns, you bet Essendon, you bet you're long
Speaker 3: in a semi final, you get to Sydney at ains
Speaker 3: and Stadium. You kicked the first goal of the game,
Speaker 3: but Buddy Franklin and Sydney up and running and I
Speaker 3: don't know how you run out of petrol tickets by then.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we did, and we were up against
Speaker 1: a pretty good Sydney team that year. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: remember that game pretty well and coming out of it
Speaker 1: and going wow, that's that's the level you need to
Speaker 1: get to to play in the Grand Final. But to
Speaker 1: have that experience with got a AFL prelim final eleven
Speaker 1: like that was something that I just hadn't even conceived
Speaker 1: of being an option.
Speaker 5: So yeah, extremely cool.
Speaker 3: So back to back years through it a prilium so
Speaker 3: you dropped mid season in the next year that you
Speaker 3: kick thirty two goals you know, you sling shot in
Speaker 3: the finals, a seven game winning streak, you make it
Speaker 3: through to a prelim final, Boomers four hundredth game against Brisbane.
Speaker 3: So again, a couple of prelim finals would just say
Speaker 3: you're really close. Maybe not, but they were pretty heady
Speaker 3: times at the Ruse.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were. And we had, you know a few
Speaker 1: players who were heading towards the end of their careers
Speaker 1: the twilight, Brent Harvey and Drew Petrie and Nick Del
Speaker 1: Santo over Michael Frito, these types that, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: so desperate for it and hadn't had that. Well, I
Speaker 1: think Boomer had that experience, but none of the rest
Speaker 1: of us, given how long he was in the game.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was pretty clear to us as young
Speaker 1: players that you know, they'd sit us down and go,
Speaker 1: you don't realize what this experience means, and you'll appreciate
Speaker 1: that later, but we need to impress on you how
Speaker 1: important this is. So yeah, that we didn't get to
Speaker 1: a Grand final, that definitely. That definitely sat with me
Speaker 1: and sat with a lot of us. I think it
Speaker 1: probably hurt us that we didn't make that top four
Speaker 1: in any of those hard yeah. Yeah, and each time.
Speaker 1: We sort of gone through the first couple of years,
Speaker 1: got through the prelims from the fifth to eight slots. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Everyone talks about the twenty fifteen gaming. It's West Coast,
Speaker 1: and we came out and kicked a few goals at
Speaker 1: the start of the game, and we're probably unlucky not
Speaker 1: to kick a couple more and.
Speaker 3: Goals to Nilan that first time termally by five points
Speaker 3: at halftime.
Speaker 4: A couple of decisions maybe didn't go there way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that was clearly as close as you've got
Speaker 3: and then they come over the top of here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I probably think back on that game in
Speaker 1: that second half and think we were run off our
Speaker 1: legs and we're pretty tired by that point.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Again, maybe if we had a couple of decisions go
Speaker 1: away in the first the momentum in footy you can
Speaker 1: swing like that. But yeah, I think that second half
Speaker 1: we were pretty run off our legs.
Speaker 2: But you're still thinking it's more to come. You have it.
Speaker 4: You know, earlier that final series, you have an amazing
Speaker 4: elimination final win over Richmond. I think you were twenty
Speaker 4: odd points down twice in the game and come back.
Speaker 4: So are you thinking going into twenty sixteen, that we've
Speaker 4: still got another shot left in the locker.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely we did. I can't remember it
Speaker 1: was that year that we went.
Speaker 4: Think won the first nine games in that year and
Speaker 4: your two games on top after nine round is yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: and we probably trying to remember, but I think we
Speaker 4: probably had a few injuries and yeah, you dropped three,
Speaker 4: only won three of the last ten. I think it
Speaker 4: was injuries, and yeah, a whole lot of things. Is
Speaker 4: that what went wrong?
Speaker 2: Do you think?
Speaker 1: Yeah, we kind of crawled our way into finals in
Speaker 1: the end, and I think we had beaten Badelaide resoundingly
Speaker 1: in the in the elimination final we played in so
Speaker 1: and that was probably. Yeah, you looked at it and
Speaker 1: went is that us? Is that the window closed? And
Speaker 1: after that year it was the bit the four of
Speaker 1: our players were retired at the same time or moved
Speaker 1: on at the same time.
Speaker 5: I retired, They were sacked really so Brad Scott clearly
Speaker 5: felt this was the end of the year.
Speaker 3: You lose by sixty two points. Where were you when
Speaker 3: you found out? Yeah, all those four blokes, Harvey, Petri,
Speaker 3: Farido DALs and I would be moved on.
Speaker 5: I would say against there, Well, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was. I can't remember, I couldn't tell you where
Speaker 1: I was, but I remember that feeling of just wow,
Speaker 1: that's such a such a big decision. Yeah, really changed
Speaker 1: the course of the club in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: and you look at where the club's been for the
Speaker 1: last ten years and sort of one of those moments
Speaker 1: I think that was it signaled a big change in
Speaker 1: the direction of going.
Speaker 2: Did it rip the fabric out of the group a bit?
Speaker 4: In that sense like you're losing some incredible players and
Speaker 4: you know, potentially one or two of them could have
Speaker 4: gone on. Certainly Boomer felt like he could have played
Speaker 4: another two seasons. He had twenty five disposals in that
Speaker 4: last game. I think I was at that game, the
Speaker 4: elimination final. He thought he had two years left. Did
Speaker 4: it impact the group? Do you think?
Speaker 1: I think? You know, obviously, the feelings that those guys,
Speaker 1: you know, that's I can't speak for them and how
Speaker 1: they and how they felt. I think in football you
Speaker 1: do have to move on pretty quickly, and it probably
Speaker 1: was that case that we came into that twenty seventeen season.
Speaker 1: We're pretty young, We've just got to We've just got
Speaker 1: to crack on. Yeah, yeah, I suppose I didn't really
Speaker 1: give too much thought to it in terms of what
Speaker 1: it did to the what it did to the group.
Speaker 1: We would definitely I think we played off for the
Speaker 1: playedoff essentially for the Wooden Spoon in the falling year.
Speaker 1: So it was a big shift in terms of what
Speaker 1: we were the direction we're going to the club.
Speaker 5: For sure.
Speaker 3: You kick sixty three goals, a team wins six wins,
Speaker 3: sixteen losses, You're getting a lot of the ball, you're delivering,
Speaker 3: you're the man.
Speaker 5: What's that feeling like?
Speaker 1: It was mostly pretty good. I feel like being able
Speaker 1: to perform most weeks. And I think I was very
Speaker 1: fortunate too that I had a coaching Brad Scott, who
Speaker 1: really backed me in. We've had a game plan that
Speaker 1: suited the way that I played. So I think for
Speaker 1: any AFL player people talk about, I always look at
Speaker 1: the conversation around you know, the top ten picks and
Speaker 1: where are they now and what happened to them? And
Speaker 1: I think there's so much in the way that football
Speaker 1: clubs are able to develop players. It's not always in
Speaker 1: the individual themselves. There's a lot of luck, I think
Speaker 1: involved in football I landed at North Melbourne at a
Speaker 1: time where they were searching for that third key forward
Speaker 1: and that I came in and probably kicked a couple
Speaker 1: of goals at the right time, and you know, you
Speaker 1: get another opportunity and another opportunity and you're sort of
Speaker 1: able to grasp it. So while I think I worked
Speaker 1: pretty hard for what I got and put a lot
Speaker 1: of time into areas of my game to get myself
Speaker 1: to that level, I think there was a lot of
Speaker 1: There was a lot of fortune in that as well
Speaker 1: and timing in that. So I do feel incredibly fortunate
Speaker 1: to have had that experience, And a lot of players
Speaker 1: don't get that. They for whatever reason, don't fit into
Speaker 1: the system as well as someone else might. You know,
Speaker 1: have a coach that doesn't see the positives necessarily in
Speaker 1: their game and focuses on the negative. So so much
Speaker 1: can so much can impact a players experience of life
Speaker 1: in an AFL club.
Speaker 4: It's a good time to be kicking sixty three goals.
Speaker 4: You're out of contract at the end of that year,
Speaker 4: you signed a new deal. Were there any other clubs
Speaker 4: coming for you at that stage? Ben, you signed a
Speaker 4: new deal to the end of twenty twenty as it was,
Speaker 4: we were always going to stay at North.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was.
Speaker 2: There were a few little feelers I remember out at
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I never considered that stage going anywhere else.
Speaker 5: Yea.
Speaker 1: And I was pretty comfortable with where I was at
Speaker 1: at North Melbourne, probably at that stage and pretty much
Speaker 1: at every stage of my time at North Melbourne, I
Speaker 1: thought I was going to play at North Melbourne. Yeah,
Speaker 1: until the end.
Speaker 5: Sixty one goals, youkick sixty one to twenty four.
Speaker 3: You had a beautiful set shot ROUTATET so you only
Speaker 3: missed finals by a game of percentage. You finished second
Speaker 3: in the Coleman You see you're almost on the upswing
Speaker 3: again with a young side that's going places.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it. On reflection, I think what
Speaker 1: we missed. You said we missed finals by percentage, But
Speaker 1: I feel like we probably outplayed ourselves that year to
Speaker 1: go from having the list clean out that we did
Speaker 1: at the end of twenty sixteen and then twenty seventeen
Speaker 1: we only beat Brisbane for the Spoon to finish fifteenth
Speaker 1: I think it was, and then to finish ninth. I
Speaker 1: think we're probably playing above our pay grade that year.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean, it was exciting to be playing
Speaker 1: better foot of you always want to be winning, but
Speaker 1: I feel like we were on the up swing. We're
Speaker 1: still very young. That probably impacted things from there, I think.
Speaker 3: So then your coach gets moved on, sacked, whatever it is,
Speaker 3: difference of opinions. Do you remember where you are when
Speaker 3: you realize, hang on, my first coach you believed so
Speaker 3: much and is going to be moved on?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. I remember coming to the football club
Speaker 1: and you know, all the players standing around and listening
Speaker 1: to the press conference and sort of wondering what's going
Speaker 1: to change, what's going to Yeah, I suppose, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he always think about that kind of thing. And I'd
Speaker 1: only ever had Brad as a coach at AFL level
Speaker 1: and that was all I knew. So it was certainly
Speaker 1: going to be a period of change. What that change
Speaker 1: is going to look like, I wasn't sure. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's definitely emotional too, because as I said, Brad had
Speaker 1: put so much, so much faith in me as a
Speaker 1: as a player, and and as I said, you know,
Speaker 1: the the kind of way that the team played at
Speaker 1: that time I think really suited me in the way
Speaker 1: I played, So yeah, it was. It was definitely an
Speaker 1: emotional time. It was and Brad now it's weird, it's
Speaker 1: come full circle. My office is on my office, My
Speaker 1: my desk is right next to Brad's office. So we
Speaker 1: say a lot to each other in the in the
Speaker 1: hallways now at Essendon. So it's it's strange how things
Speaker 1: come back around. And as well, like I'll say too,
Speaker 1: Brad was was present for me over his years, even
Speaker 1: at the AFL would call and check in.
Speaker 2: You would often speak to him even after that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, which for me was incredibly important. And like
Speaker 1: for him to be there for me at some difficult
Speaker 1: times in my career and to be another year for
Speaker 1: me and to show that interest in a player that
Speaker 1: he really had no right to or need to show
Speaker 1: interest in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was. That was pretty special for me to
Speaker 3: So Reshaw's the caretaker coach. He comes in playing hard
Speaker 3: ballistic football. He gets the gig. I remember just you know,
Speaker 3: seeing him at the end of that season, you thought,
Speaker 3: this bloke is going to be a coaching great. How
Speaker 3: challenging was it for him? You know he had his
Speaker 3: mental health battles as well. How what's it like to
Speaker 3: see the unraveling almost of a senior coach, which must
Speaker 3: be so tough.
Speaker 1: It was. It was tough, and I feel for recent
Speaker 1: a way. I think he came in as a young coach,
Speaker 1: and for a young coach coming in and having your
Speaker 1: first experience and then having most of your football department
Speaker 1: stripped away from you and sent off to a hub
Speaker 1: to coach with a really young team, a young, inexperienced team,
Speaker 1: and coming off the promise of the previous year as well,
Speaker 1: I can imagine how that would have would have weighed
Speaker 1: on him. And yeah, it was an incredibly tough experience
Speaker 1: in the hubs in twenty twenty as well. I struggled
Speaker 1: a lot in that environment and obviously that year didn't
Speaker 1: go as as I would have liked personally, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it was to have all of the to have all
Speaker 1: of the support taken away from football clubs would have
Speaker 1: been difficult, not only for North Melbourne but I'm sure
Speaker 1: a lot of other clubs too would have really struggled
Speaker 1: to just provide the support that players that staff needed
Speaker 1: in that environment to be able to continue to play
Speaker 1: footy at that time. I think was really important for
Speaker 1: a lot of people and for the AFL to be
Speaker 1: able to keep that going in some respect, I think
Speaker 1: it was important not only for people in the industry,
Speaker 1: but for people back home who were yeah, nodding your head, sitting.
Speaker 4: Back on the couch and that as well. It was
Speaker 4: a pretty important time. Jadon Stevens had talked about one
Speaker 4: hundred and five days in the Hub. They might have
Speaker 4: been playing final, so fractionally longer than you. Yeah, there'd
Speaker 4: be people who say, you know what, I lost my job.
Speaker 3: You likes to play football in these beautiful luxury resorts
Speaker 3: in Queensland. That's not the experience, but distilled for us
Speaker 3: why it was so challenging for IFL players.
Speaker 1: I think it was again, I can only speak for
Speaker 1: it from my experience in the hub. I think. You know,
Speaker 1: we had we had the option of taking our partners
Speaker 1: and kids up with us, and for me that was
Speaker 1: a no brainer in order to sort of have them
Speaker 1: there with me. And initially it was said that we
Speaker 1: might be up there for twenty days or something like that,
Speaker 1: or a couple of weeks. And for the even for the
Speaker 1: partners and the kids who had to go into two
Speaker 1: weeks of quarantine to be able to join their partners
Speaker 1: in you know, after that point. I'm really happy that
Speaker 1: we did things the way we did them, but the
Speaker 1: there was just not the ability to support people in
Speaker 1: the way that they needed to be supported, and a
Speaker 1: lot of.
Speaker 3: Them, as you say, the foot departments basically had to
Speaker 3: cut their stuff so there was none of them back up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean North Melbourne didn't take their psychologists alone
Speaker 1: so into an environment where they would be as important
Speaker 1: as the senior coach as anyone. So yeah, that the
Speaker 1: but that was kind of the nature of things and
Speaker 1: that you know, even people at the club would have
Speaker 1: had to have made those decisions incredibly quickly, without without
Speaker 1: any precedence for what the best scenario was, so being
Speaker 1: being shifted around and again from our experience at Northwall
Speaker 1: losing every week, so it was it wasn't a fun
Speaker 1: place to be, no respite.
Speaker 5: And losing often because you know there was short and games.
Speaker 4: And no escape from from it. Really there twenty four
Speaker 4: to seven, you can't get away from it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, again, there were in order to continue with
Speaker 1: our jobs and be able to do what we were
Speaker 1: able to do. I think what was done was the
Speaker 1: best the best that people could do at that time.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it was incredibly and it was challenging for
Speaker 4: you to in that sense, you were about to come
Speaker 4: out of contract at the end of that year. The
Speaker 4: previous year, you know, the second last game, you've shown
Speaker 4: how good you were. You've kicked ten goals against Port
Speaker 4: Adelaide for number ten.
Speaker 6: This is.
Speaker 7: Ben Brown. It's double figures.
Speaker 2: Flying.
Speaker 4: How close were you to signing a contract earlier in
Speaker 4: that twenty twenty season, was the contract was on the table.
Speaker 1: It was a really interesting time in that At the
Speaker 1: end of that twenty nine seen seasons, as you said,
Speaker 1: you'd I just I just had a big three years.
Speaker 4: One hundred and eighty eight girls. It's in sixty six
Speaker 4: games Ralfi.
Speaker 1: So at that stage I felt like, you know, I
Speaker 1: was about the peak of my powers. I was playing
Speaker 1: really good footy. We along with my management, sort of
Speaker 1: we talked to the footy club. We didn't really have
Speaker 1: people to talk to at that point because we didn't
Speaker 1: have a senior coach, we didn't have a general manager
Speaker 1: of footy, so the ability to communicate and talk about
Speaker 1: contracts at that time was incredibly limited. We're sort of
Speaker 1: told you'll just have to wait and have to wait,
Speaker 1: which was fine. As with most contract negotiations. We started
Speaker 1: out and I think it would be very rare for
Speaker 1: a player to have the first contract put in front
Speaker 1: of them and you go, yep, great, let's move it on,
Speaker 1: which I think I'd done in maybe twenty sixteen after
Speaker 1: a little bit of cushion. But you know, this one,
Speaker 1: we sort of started out, We started out apart, were.
Speaker 5: Sort of.
Speaker 1: Working to come together, as I think happens with pretty
Speaker 1: much every contract negotiation. But again, things were moving very
Speaker 1: slowly because we didn't really have a football department to
Speaker 1: talk to, a general manager of footy to talk to
Speaker 1: about these things. Brady Rawlings is in the process of
Speaker 1: coming across to the.
Speaker 5: End of sorry, the end of twenty twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And then part of the way through those discussions,
Speaker 1: COVID hit and there was a contract freeze. So we
Speaker 1: were halfway through those negotiations and sort of starting to
Speaker 1: come together on them, and we literally weren't allowed to
Speaker 1: help communicate and talk about contracts anymore.
Speaker 3: So as of course had taken that manaf you pay
Speaker 3: card and people were working through what the CBA.
Speaker 1: Will even look like. Yeah yeah, yeah, So at that
Speaker 1: stage for me, it was like, all right, we're going
Speaker 1: to go to the Hubs. We've just got to play footy.
Speaker 1: As things transpired, my form was not great in the Hubs.
Speaker 1: We were struggling as a team, probably struggling with a
Speaker 1: new system and how to implement that. And I got
Speaker 1: injured part of the way through that year, and you.
Speaker 5: Played none of the first ten then didn't play after
Speaker 5: around ten.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so knee injury and yeah, and was out for
Speaker 1: the remainder of that season. So when the contract freeze ended,
Speaker 1: it went from we're having a negotiation to there's no
Speaker 1: contract for you and you've got to look somewhere else.
Speaker 4: So how early did you know that I exit interview
Speaker 4: or this is way before exit interview? I was told,
Speaker 4: But I knew before that. Yeah, but no one had
Speaker 4: told you. You just heard around the traps or someone had.
Speaker 4: Actually it was.
Speaker 1: It was relatively clear to me that they wanted to
Speaker 1: move in a different direction at that point, and I
Speaker 1: think the way the club was going, I could understand
Speaker 1: that to an extent that I was not the only
Speaker 1: one who has moved on. At the end of that year,
Speaker 1: I think they decided that they wanted to go down
Speaker 1: the youth route. Shawn Higgins has moved on, Jamie McMillan
Speaker 1: has moved on a couple of others. I think too.
Speaker 1: So in terms of lack how it played out, I
Speaker 1: can very much understand that the club just wanted to
Speaker 1: go in a different direction. I don't necessarily harbor any
Speaker 1: any poor feelings towards anyone for how that played out.
Speaker 1: I think it was a whole set of circumstances that
Speaker 1: we were working through at the club was working through
Speaker 1: that everyone was working through, and it was unfortunate that
Speaker 1: I had seen myself as I'm going to be a
Speaker 1: North Melbourne player for COVID.
Speaker 4: Doesn't hit you probably are in that sense that that
Speaker 4: contract get signed and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, potentially potentially, Yeah, it was again circumstances. Circumstances are different.
Speaker 1: Who knows, who knows what might have happened as it transpired.
Speaker 3: I think the reports and take them, you know, the
Speaker 3: truth throughout the reports. But the reports where you guys
Speaker 3: are looking for four years about seven fifty at one
Speaker 3: stage they were looking for three years, as you say,
Speaker 3: you were haggling. So Rabanaskaus, your manager, took some criticism
Speaker 3: for the likes of David King, who suggests that you know,
Speaker 3: one of a better expression.
Speaker 5: He bunked it.
Speaker 3: So there was no real contract that you could sign
Speaker 3: at that stage that was pulled out of the table
Speaker 3: that was satisfactory to you.
Speaker 5: My point is Rama didn't do anything wrong.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, he didn't, And that is absolutely true
Speaker 1: that the club had a three year deal in front
Speaker 1: of us. We'd put four years back. At that stage,
Speaker 1: my mind was, I've had a few good years. This
Speaker 1: is going to be the last contract really that I'll
Speaker 1: probably sign. That's a reasonable length of time, and I
Speaker 1: was thinking about, you know, the you know, the four
Speaker 1: years would give that extra security of knowing that I
Speaker 1: was at a club for for longer in terms of
Speaker 1: where we would have got to had we continued those discussions,
Speaker 1: maybe we would have signed a three year deal at
Speaker 1: the end. I think it was so, and this is
Speaker 1: where all the discussion around it, I think didn't really
Speaker 1: take into.
Speaker 5: Account the circumstances.
Speaker 1: As I said before, we were right at the beginning
Speaker 1: of a discussion, like of course we're going to say
Speaker 1: four years and they're going to say three. Like we're
Speaker 1: trying to get the best, the best scenario for both.
Speaker 1: So I think who knows those discussions, if they had
Speaker 1: to progressed further than being like right at the start
Speaker 1: of the conversation, probably would have progressed further and we
Speaker 1: would have found a middle ground. As happens with every
Speaker 1: contract negotiation. As it was, COVID hits no general manager
Speaker 1: of football, no coach. That's pretty hard to like, it's
Speaker 1: pretty hard to make those calls. So but in terms of.
Speaker 5: From my perspective, I don't harbor any ill feeling.
Speaker 2: How traumatic was that year for you with Hester as well?
Speaker 5: It was?
Speaker 4: It was a tough year, wasn't it, that whole season,
Speaker 4: not just football personal as well.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well we went up to the Hubs and Hess
Speaker 1: was incredibly unwell. She was pregnant with our second second
Speaker 1: child at that time. We found out a stage along
Speaker 1: that journey that Asma our second was a twin, and
Speaker 1: we lost one of those twins relatively early on in
Speaker 1: the pregnancy, vanishing twin. So going through all that experience
Speaker 1: without having the family and the support around necessarily to
Speaker 1: deal with that properly, and also trying to head to
Speaker 1: training when we had a one and a half year
Speaker 1: old and my wife incredibly sick and spewing up multiple
Speaker 1: times a day and still trying to be able to
Speaker 1: perform in that environment. She went to hospital at one
Speaker 1: point because through the through the through the illness. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it was it was incredibly challenging just being in that environment. Uh.
Speaker 1: And and also not playing the football personally or as
Speaker 1: a team as as we would have liked to, and
Speaker 1: then having the injury off the back of that. It
Speaker 1: all probably exacerbated things. It's probably, yeah, in terms of
Speaker 1: mentally and how it was getting through that year is
Speaker 1: probably as tough as it's been for us. But yeah,
Speaker 1: these these things, these things happen. You just got to
Speaker 1: push through and get through them as best you can.
Speaker 5: How did you get to Melbourne?
Speaker 1: It was probably a process through after that exit interview,
Speaker 1: looking at what are the next options? Melbourne came to
Speaker 1: me and where immediately I felt like it was clear
Speaker 1: why they wanted me as a player and they saw
Speaker 1: the strengths that I could bring. And I remember sitting
Speaker 1: in that first meeting with Simon Goodwin and Alan Richardson
Speaker 1: and I think Gorney was in the first meeting that
Speaker 1: I had with them too, so sort of showed their
Speaker 1: interest levels and I remember them saying that we feel
Speaker 1: like we're in a premiership window. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if everyone at that time would have thought the same,
Speaker 1: but that's fair point. But when they explained it and
Speaker 1: said these are the players we've got, this is what
Speaker 1: we're building, it did I could believe it. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it became it became pretty clear that that they were
Speaker 1: sort of the front runners there and that I could
Speaker 1: potentially go across and sort of reignite my career at
Speaker 1: that point because I'd taken a hit, I suppose in
Speaker 1: confidence and in the my strengths and what I could
Speaker 1: bring to a team. So to hear that a club
Speaker 1: could see those strengths and wanted to bring them out,
Speaker 1: it was a really positive thing for me.
Speaker 2: Your links with Simon Goodwin, how was that?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 4: He was obviously at the first meeting and got you
Speaker 4: a spot in the team, said here's where you're going
Speaker 4: to play.
Speaker 2: How was he to you? Like we've just.
Speaker 4: Seen a lot of his current players sort of talk
Speaker 4: about how important he was for them.
Speaker 2: How important was he for you?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean the club and good you took a
Speaker 1: took a punt on took a punt on me. I'd
Speaker 1: just come off a knee injury, Yep, I'd had multiple
Speaker 1: knee injuries before that point, So they're taking a guy
Speaker 1: who's potentially got that cloud over him, that had that
Speaker 1: had a poor year by all, buy everything from an
Speaker 1: external point of view, at least the previous the previous season.
Speaker 1: So in order to see through all of that and
Speaker 1: to give you an opportunity and feel like you can
Speaker 1: fit into something that was incredibly important for me. I
Speaker 1: think from from really early on, I remember sort of
Speaker 1: walking around walking around the ground out at Casey Fields
Speaker 1: with him and saying, we don't need you to we
Speaker 1: don't need you to get there straight away, just to
Speaker 1: know that you know we back in and we know
Speaker 1: that you're going to put the work into to do
Speaker 1: what you need to do. Even when I even when
Speaker 1: I came in in twenty twenty one, played a couple
Speaker 1: of games and then was dropped back to the VFL,
Speaker 1: the support you know from him was still there and
Speaker 1: he believed that I could get back to play my
Speaker 1: best football. And yeah, that was important in terms of
Speaker 1: getting back to my best the back end of twenty one.
Speaker 3: So you missed until round seven within the you play
Speaker 3: around seven to nine, then I think you missed with
Speaker 3: some injury. Did you play some VFL or some of
Speaker 3: that formulated before you got back in for round seventeen,
Speaker 3: And obviously we know what that built towards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was form related. I played a couple of
Speaker 1: games and probably, like I had a little bit in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, probably went away from some of the things
Speaker 1: that made me a really good player, and I needed
Speaker 1: to rediscover that for myself. I think as much as anything,
Speaker 1: I remember going back and playing my first game back
Speaker 1: in the VFL after being dropped. I was against GWS
Speaker 1: out at Casey, and I remember just being so resoundedly,
Speaker 1: resoundingly beaten. I think I had four or five touches,
Speaker 1: couldn't get near It felt just felt like I'd forgotten
Speaker 1: how to play football. And the following five weeks, I
Speaker 1: think it was in the VFL where that's probably the
Speaker 1: moment I think back on with the most pride, is
Speaker 1: that I was able to dig myself out of that
Speaker 1: hole that I was in. I'd had twelve to eighteen
Speaker 1: months of probably feeling like I couldn't discover where my
Speaker 1: best form was at or how to find that again,
Speaker 1: and I went back and watched some old vision of
Speaker 1: myself playing well and then probably competed it to that
Speaker 1: GWS game, and I went, what am I doing now
Speaker 1: that I wasn't doing then and vice versa, and I
Speaker 1: just saw a few things that it looked like watching
Speaker 1: a different player. So okay, I'm going to get back
Speaker 1: to my best. These are the things I've got to do.
Speaker 1: I started. I got a little book and started writing
Speaker 1: just one thing I was going to do each training session,
Speaker 1: in each game, I'd start with today. I will do
Speaker 1: this because for me, I think I got to that
Speaker 1: point where I was trying. I had a million things
Speaker 1: in my head that I needed to get exactly right
Speaker 1: and get perfect down on the field, and it meant
Speaker 1: that I basically collapsed in on myself and I got
Speaker 1: so tight that I couldn't do anything because I had
Speaker 1: to be perfect. So to be able to write those
Speaker 1: little things in that book and tick them off when
Speaker 1: I did them well, whether it's a training or a game,
Speaker 1: it simplified the game again and made it go. I
Speaker 1: just want to launch into contest today. That's all I
Speaker 1: want to do. Maybe forget about the goal kicking, and
Speaker 1: maybe forget about having to be perfect in every body
Speaker 1: up one v one contest, like, these are the things
Speaker 1: that make me a good player.
Speaker 5: This is what I want to go back to doing.
Speaker 1: And I did that and I managed to get back
Speaker 1: into the side after playing in playing in the twos
Speaker 1: for six weeks, and then to be able to actually
Speaker 1: not just be part of a flag but to feel
Speaker 1: like I really contributed to that team in the back
Speaker 1: part of that year. That's something that I you know,
Speaker 1: that sort of resilience piece me out to bounce back
Speaker 1: with something that I'm probably most proud of in my career.
Speaker 3: What part of you, yeah, you're in hubs again, you're
Speaker 3: away from your family at that stage. What part of
Speaker 3: you think saying on more a chance here because you've
Speaker 3: beat Brisbane in a qualifying final goal, We've beat Geelong
Speaker 3: on a prelim and then of course you're into a
Speaker 3: WA based Grand final.
Speaker 1: It just it was a really good feeling around that group.
Speaker 1: I think we had very minimal injuries that year. I
Speaker 1: think towards the back particularly, we were an incredibly healthy list.
Speaker 1: So we had players that have played a good chunk
Speaker 1: of football together with each other coming into the coming
Speaker 1: into the finals and coming to the Grand Final, which
Speaker 1: I think really helped we also had a really driven
Speaker 1: group underneath that sort of core group who were training
Speaker 1: us incredibly hard and going at us.
Speaker 5: In training.
Speaker 1: That weren't in the team. But and forever for I've
Speaker 1: seen scenarios where some of those players are just switch
Speaker 1: off and I'm not getting back into this team and
Speaker 1: I'm just going to get I'm going to check out
Speaker 1: and I'm going to get through training. These guys were
Speaker 1: not checked out. So the ability pushing and pushing and push,
Speaker 1: the ability for the coaching staff and everyone who was
Speaker 1: there to be able to keep that motivation going, I
Speaker 1: think was incredibly important for us. But it did feel
Speaker 1: like we were building something, building something pretty special.
Speaker 5: Go through that.
Speaker 4: Ben kick gold Brisbane and you kick too against Gelong
Speaker 4: in the preliminary final. What are your thoughts You're in
Speaker 4: a grand final, you came so close or you know
Speaker 4: a couple of preliminary finals, what are your thoughts going
Speaker 4: into that grand fall? Your family sort of split hester
Speaker 4: and the kids back here if Tasmanian family can go.
Speaker 4: I think there was a week off that year was
Speaker 4: the week off before the Grand Fall.
Speaker 5: And I've forgotten it all. I've got toxic Apart from the
Speaker 5: flag of the quarter for me a bit.
Speaker 2: Of a wait.
Speaker 4: But yeah, to get the family across from Tasmania was great.
Speaker 4: But how tough is it that Hester and the kids
Speaker 4: back here in Melbourne.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they went through I mean for Hess and
Speaker 1: the kids, like Hess went through some of the toughest
Speaker 1: times with me, and I think for me, I would
Speaker 1: have loved to have been able to share that that
Speaker 1: the biggest moment with her, and so that was incredibly
Speaker 1: difficult in the fact that at that time she had
Speaker 1: to hold it all together while we had a baby
Speaker 1: who was barely sleeping at that time. I think she'd
Speaker 1: nearly lost her mind while I was in those husbands.
Speaker 1: For her to be able to every video call that
Speaker 1: I had with her and the kids was positive and
Speaker 1: I love what you're doing and I want you to
Speaker 1: succeed that I will. I really cherish how much she
Speaker 1: was able to support me through what was really a
Speaker 1: pretty horrific time. But to have my tazzy bassed family,
Speaker 1: mom and dad, my brothers, my Gradma came over, the game.
Speaker 5: Melissa and Doug.
Speaker 3: Four of your five brothers, Alex, James, Luke, Dominic, only
Speaker 3: Cameron worked missed through work.
Speaker 5: Everyone was there.
Speaker 1: Yes, to have them in the rooms afterwards was so
Speaker 1: so amazing, and yeah, that whole, that whole experience of
Speaker 1: that Grand Final was just yeah, bizarre and a lot
Speaker 1: of take us through the game.
Speaker 3: Stephen May of course at the other end, has a
Speaker 3: hamstring issue, might have been six centimentitary. He didn't want
Speaker 3: to know. Plays on Norton, who doesn't really expose him.
Speaker 3: Pod Deppelli in that second court second order was catching fire.
Speaker 3: You kick three goals, Take us through the flow of
Speaker 3: an incredible game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember I was incredibly nervous the night before,
Speaker 1: the night before the game. Again, I wrote a lot
Speaker 1: in that year. I wrote down in my little notebook
Speaker 1: all the things that I was telling myself might happen
Speaker 1: that were making me feel nervous. And then just and
Speaker 1: then I wrote on the other page one, I'm going
Speaker 1: to write back to that voice that really cald me down.
Speaker 1: Going to the game still obviously incredibly nervous, but that
Speaker 1: gave me the gave me the confidence that I, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was ready to go. In terms of the game.
Speaker 1: I remember sitting down halfway through that third quarter on
Speaker 1: the bench and going just we feel like we were
Speaker 1: in like third year here and we haven't got going yet,
Speaker 1: but this game is going to get away from us.
Speaker 1: We're going to lose.
Speaker 4: One kicks the goal at the twelve minute mark and
Speaker 4: then nineteen points in front.
Speaker 2: I think everyone thinks the momentum switched.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 5: I felt that too.
Speaker 7: You can't contempally, this is some game he's playing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I just thought we've got to get going here.
Speaker 1: It would be a huge opportunity missed. It felt like
Speaker 1: coming out of the the other finals that we were
Speaker 1: just primed and ready to go, and the Bulldogs are
Speaker 1: going to win and then Yeah, I've never been part
Speaker 1: of anything like at the end of that third quarter
Speaker 1: before it was just the one for guarding.
Speaker 7: Surely not another one had got a lot of streaming.
Speaker 2: True, It's just a wave, wasn't it. Really. It was
Speaker 2: just a wave of momentum.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the easiest, well, the hardest seventy four points when
Speaker 4: you've ever seen because it was hard, but it just
Speaker 4: was extraordinary.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I I to be out there on the ground while
Speaker 1: that was what that was going on to participate in
Speaker 1: it to.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Ah, that's something you just look back on and just
Speaker 1: shake your head.
Speaker 5: So they kicked a lot of those goals over your head.
Speaker 3: But what was it like looking as you know, Luke
Speaker 3: Jackson and Petracker and Oliver and resting it out of
Speaker 3: the stoppages and just bombing it from fifty and as
Speaker 3: that's ticking along, you're thinking, we're a chancey, hang on,
Speaker 3: we're in a great position.
Speaker 5: Hang on, wi caut lose.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that was what we'd built throughout that
Speaker 1: whole year was I don't think I've come across many
Speaker 1: teams that were as good at being able to get
Speaker 1: the ball out of a contest to the outside as
Speaker 1: we did. And that was you know, Clary and Track
Speaker 1: and Jack Viney and all these time Cozy Picket, Young
Speaker 1: Cozy Picket at that stage Luke Jackson. Just their ability
Speaker 1: to get out of contest and get it to the outside.
Speaker 1: And that was the thing that the Bulldogs have been
Speaker 1: able to take away from us, and suddenly we're able
Speaker 1: to get the ball out. It just it felt like
Speaker 1: it felt like this is us at our absolute best.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the last the last ten or fifteen minutes
Speaker 1: was really fun because we got to the end of
Speaker 1: a Grand Final. We know, a home.
Speaker 3: As you say, you didn't play in that Grand Final.
Speaker 3: You really contributed that Grand Final? How important is that
Speaker 3: for you? And you're a grandkid telling the kids you
Speaker 3: put the access in whatever it is to say, yeah,
Speaker 3: I stood up.
Speaker 1: It's it's really cool. It's something that no one can
Speaker 1: ever take away from me that I was able to
Speaker 1: that I was able to do that, I was able
Speaker 1: to contribute to a Grand Final winning team. You know,
Speaker 1: I wasn't just there. I played really well. And the
Speaker 1: fact that I can say that after that previous sort
Speaker 1: of eighteen months it was the real rollercoaster of that
Speaker 1: AFL can be. But yeah, incredibly proud of it. You
Speaker 1: know something that I think, Yeah, maybe I'll tell the
Speaker 1: grand kids in the future.
Speaker 3: If I'm a Melbourne fan, I'm thinking, O catch you
Speaker 3: just got sacked this week as we're recording this podcast.
Speaker 5: What went wrong in those intervening years?
Speaker 3: You kick thirty goals in nineteen games in twenty twenty
Speaker 3: two more challenging in terms of some of your injuries.
Speaker 3: How do you distill Yeah, that the challenges Melbourne faced
Speaker 3: and ultimately wasn't able to respond to.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Probably in terms of that twenty twenty one year, As
Speaker 1: I said, like, we were remarkably healthy at the back
Speaker 1: end of that year. I think we had various struggles
Speaker 1: to at times in those following years with injuries to
Speaker 1: key players, even in twenty twenty four, like Angus Brayshaw
Speaker 1: and what he went through to lose a player of
Speaker 1: that ilk in the pre season. Well everything, yeah, everything.
Speaker 1: He was so integral to the fabric of Melbourne, what
Speaker 1: made Melbourne what it was. Yeah, that was that we
Speaker 1: probably struggled to get back to that level of having
Speaker 1: everyone out on the park at the same time. And yeah,
Speaker 1: for me personally, it was a case of sort of
Speaker 1: battling my body the last couple of years a little
Speaker 1: bit more, which was something that I mentally tried to
Speaker 1: put to the back of my mind. So you never
Speaker 1: want to be thinking about that kind of thing. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it did get it did get more difficult.
Speaker 4: People have talked about the culture of Melbourne. It's been
Speaker 4: spoken about more than any other club. What is the
Speaker 4: culture of Melbourne that you lived through and experience. You
Speaker 4: saw some highs, you saw some lows. Is it hard
Speaker 4: to define? You know in a couple of minute answer
Speaker 4: to sum it up, Yeah, it probably is.
Speaker 1: Did Melbourne and people in Melbourne do everything right over
Speaker 1: the last few years. I don't necessarily think they did.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, AFL clubs are far from perfect.
Speaker 1: What I would say is that I don't think it's
Speaker 1: ever as bad or as good as it seems. I
Speaker 1: really love that term in terms of talking of that phrase,
Speaker 1: in terms of talking about AFL clubs, it was it
Speaker 1: was it was another AFL club, just another AFL club
Speaker 1: to be actually in the place. The way that the
Speaker 1: coaches the players were able to you know, get through
Speaker 1: any get through any point like or any hardship that
Speaker 1: came up, or anything in the media. It was it
Speaker 1: was being able to move on and get on with
Speaker 1: football and get on with trying to be the best
Speaker 1: team we could be. I feel like being able to
Speaker 1: bring things back to to just what are we trying
Speaker 1: to do as a as a footy team. That's what
Speaker 1: most clubs will do. That's what Melbourne did. I don't
Speaker 1: think it was, you know, anything to write home about.
Speaker 3: So when it was finished, yeah, Jadon Stephenson said, I'm free,
Speaker 3: Stewart Cranery said, I'm free. You probably knew by the
Speaker 3: end it was time your body was packing up to
Speaker 3: a certain extent.
Speaker 5: How did it finish up in terms of your career.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was probably as I said, it was tougher
Speaker 1: those last couple of years. I'd probably just had a
Speaker 1: couple of I mean, I had nine knee surgeries by
Speaker 1: the end of my career, So got to the point
Speaker 1: where I'd have to warm up in the rooms or
Speaker 1: in the gym for forty minutes just to get out
Speaker 1: and train, and I'd just I'd train, and then I'd
Speaker 1: be sore for the next three days, and then I'd
Speaker 1: just get up for the game and I'd play, and
Speaker 1: then I'd be hobbling around at home for the next
Speaker 1: four days to get up for training. So, yeah, it
Speaker 1: was tough to come to terms with that in terms
Speaker 1: of I could feel like I remembered what it was
Speaker 1: like to play that best football, but being able to
Speaker 1: not be able to train it enough to be able
Speaker 1: to get out on the park and actually do it
Speaker 1: was difficult. And to probably lose that that that little
Speaker 1: bit of.
Speaker 5: That little bit of spring and.
Speaker 2: Then it so it became inevitable.
Speaker 4: Your thought in that twenty twenty four season, I think
Speaker 4: you played six games that and your last one was
Speaker 4: like round eleven, that it's I can't do this anymore.
Speaker 4: It's yeah, yeah, that it became it became too tough. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it did your body. For a long term perspective as well.
Speaker 4: You're a young man, got kids, you want to joy live.
Speaker 1: Well, that was one of the biggest things. Was I
Speaker 1: want to still be running around with my kids definitely,
Speaker 1: you know, in ten to fifteen years time. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that was definitely definitely a consideration. But I yeah, I
Speaker 1: do remember my last VFL game I got, I got one.
Speaker 1: I got one last VFL game up and up in
Speaker 1: Gold Coast and I really wanted to I really wanted
Speaker 1: to send off on a on a good note. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it was nice to be able to do that my
Speaker 1: last game.
Speaker 5: How did you find yourself at the esther Than Footy Club?
Speaker 3: A bit of the migration, A lot of the North
Speaker 3: Melbourne people along with Brad Scott.
Speaker 5: What are you doing and tell us about the afl W.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so been involved in women's footy since well, going
Speaker 1: to watch the exhibition games in twenty fourteen. It must
Speaker 1: have been when I was just twenty fifteen, when I
Speaker 1: was just starting out North Melbourne, I really wanted to
Speaker 1: get involved again. It was kind of I felt like
Speaker 1: I had been so incredibly lucky to have the experience
Speaker 1: that I had had in football. And you know, I
Speaker 1: remember playing with girls that I grew up with who
Speaker 1: were told after grade six at school that there's no
Speaker 1: team for you to play in. You've got to go
Speaker 1: play something else, girls that were at that stage better
Speaker 1: than me and bigger than me. I just felt like
Speaker 1: that wasn't fair. They didn't get that opportunity. So that
Speaker 1: was what drove me into it and going, well, I
Speaker 1: have I'm lucky enough to have this. How can I
Speaker 1: give back to the game in a way that invites
Speaker 1: more of us into So went down. First of all,
Speaker 1: before North Melbourne had a team to help out at
Speaker 1: Melbourne UNI training sessions had some had like a young
Speaker 1: Izzy Huntington holding the marketing bag for us as you could,
Speaker 1: or kicking footies back out for Caitlyn Griser and just
Speaker 1: having shots at goal. So met a few players there.
Speaker 1: North Melbourne got a team. Was sort of part of
Speaker 1: the group that wanted to sort of bring the players
Speaker 1: in and make them feel like they were really part
Speaker 1: of the club. So did some work on that. Loved
Speaker 1: being a coach over the last eight nine years. So
Speaker 1: when I finished up, I knew I wanted to stay
Speaker 1: in the W space, and the opportunity came up at
Speaker 1: Esen then to be their head of development. They were
Speaker 1: looking to expand on their on their coaching group and
Speaker 1: to be able to learn from someone of Natalie Wood's
Speaker 1: experience in football and experience in the way that she
Speaker 1: teaches the game was and again, it's very different to
Speaker 1: be a senior coach at an AFLW club compared to
Speaker 1: an AFL an AFLM club. So to just experience the
Speaker 1: workload and the amount that Woody has to be across,
Speaker 1: that's given me a real appreciation for what it's like
Speaker 1: to be, you know, in the women's space.
Speaker 3: Last one for me, tell me about your wife. What
Speaker 3: an extraordinary woman.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we could do a whole other podcast
Speaker 1: on that. Yeah. I love everything that she is. I
Speaker 1: love everything that's that she's about. She taught me. She
Speaker 1: taught me I suppose to be the person that I
Speaker 1: wanted to be. She challenged me to be the person
Speaker 1: that I that I knew internally I wanted to be,
Speaker 1: but she brought that out in the best way. She
Speaker 1: is a wonderful mother. She is Yeah, she is everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's Yeah. I could talk about her, I could talk
Speaker 1: about her all day and but just to yeah, to
Speaker 1: sum it up, she is. She knows exactly who she is,
Speaker 1: and she taught me to be comfortable with the person
Speaker 1: that I am, and that, for me, has been everything.
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