WEBVTT - A gold grab, a hire car and a town called Dollar

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<v Speaker 1>What would unfold in the next few minutes would go

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<v Speaker 1>down as the third biggest heist ever in Victorian history.

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<v Speaker 1>He says, I've seen a photo, obviously implying that other

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<v Speaker 1>bad guys took the gold and buried it. But he

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<v Speaker 1>thinks he knows where it might be. In a big

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<v Speaker 1>antique desk in the house at Hawthorne, officers find a

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<v Speaker 1>semi automatic handgun, a couple of pieces of gold, and

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<v Speaker 1>more cut up number plate. This is where listeners the

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<v Speaker 1>plot thickens. I'm Andrew Ruhle. This is life and crimes

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<v Speaker 1>right back at the start of the COVID pandemic. A

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<v Speaker 1>very good heist unfolded in Melbourne, in the heart of

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<v Speaker 1>the city. It didn't get a lot of attention until

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<v Speaker 1>arrests were made and the truth was discovered. Now, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not here to say that every heist of money or

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<v Speaker 1>gold or whatever or jewelry has an inside man. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to claim that because that might be wrong

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<v Speaker 1>in some cases. But in this case there clearly was

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<v Speaker 1>an inside man, but it wasn't obvious at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>What happened was on a Monday morning, April or twenty seventh.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it was of twenty twenty, so he just

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<v Speaker 1>a few weeks into the pandemic, which began in March.

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<v Speaker 1>A man pushing a trolley comes to a building in

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<v Speaker 1>Colin Street in the city. That very ordinary looking building

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<v Speaker 1>houses the Melbourne Gold Company. He's pushing a trolley. He's

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<v Speaker 1>dressed in tradey gear. He's wearing a COVID mask, which

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<v Speaker 1>was a given of course at that time, perfect for

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<v Speaker 1>stopping infection or cross infection, but even better to mask

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<v Speaker 1>you from other people so they can't tell who you are.

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<v Speaker 1>He presses the intercom and says he's got a delivery.

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<v Speaker 1>Once he gets inside, he pulls out a pistol and

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<v Speaker 1>he orders the gold company employee that has opened the

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<v Speaker 1>door to take him into the office. Now, the man

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<v Speaker 1>who let the fake tradeing in was Daniel Ead who

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<v Speaker 1>was employed by the Melbourne Gold Company. He takes him

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<v Speaker 1>up to the seventh floor where they've got gold and

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<v Speaker 1>cash stored. What would unfold in the next few minutes

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<v Speaker 1>would go down as the third biggest heist ever in

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<v Speaker 1>Victorian history. And what Daniel ad would tell the police

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<v Speaker 1>a little while later was that this man tied him up,

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<v Speaker 1>pointed a gun at him, threatened him said, show us

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<v Speaker 1>where the money is, showing me where the gold is,

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<v Speaker 1>and then the robber proceeded to get hold of the

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<v Speaker 1>cash and the jewelry and the gold. There was something

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<v Speaker 1>like twenty eight key loads of gold. It's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of ounces, at about three and a half thousand dollars

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<v Speaker 1>an ounce. There was also more than seven hundred thousand

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<v Speaker 1>dollars in cash, and I think there was also jewelry.

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<v Speaker 1>He loads all that up and he leaves, and of

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<v Speaker 1>course he leaves Daniel D, the employee, still tied up

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<v Speaker 1>in the building on the seventh floor. It's only when

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<v Speaker 1>two customers come to the store a little while later

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<v Speaker 1>that Daniel D is untied and can raise the alarm.

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<v Speaker 1>Initially police thought about three million dollars worth of gold

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<v Speaker 1>and cash had been taken. Of course, it was a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit more when armed crime squad detectives arrived on

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<v Speaker 1>the scene. Uniform police were already there, but they were

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<v Speaker 1>dealing with another incident just nearby. There'd been an incident

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<v Speaker 1>at a bank just down the street. Now it just

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<v Speaker 1>shows you you can have good luck or you can

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<v Speaker 1>have bad luck. And in this day April onod twenty seventh,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty. The crooks, who had almost the perfect wrought

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<v Speaker 1>had some bad luck. You can imagine what would happen

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<v Speaker 1>when our offender pushes his way out of the building

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<v Speaker 1>with his with his trolley, with his high of his

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<v Speaker 1>vest and goes over towards a white ute that he's got.

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<v Speaker 1>When he sees police around the street, he must have thought,

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<v Speaker 1>oh my god, they're already onto me. But apparently he

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<v Speaker 1>kept his cool and he just walked over to a

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<v Speaker 1>white ute and he calmly unloads boxes and bags or

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<v Speaker 1>whatever into it, and then he heads off. But this

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<v Speaker 1>other incident was a stroke of luck for the police

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<v Speaker 1>because fearing that the other bank incident might escalate, safe

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<v Speaker 1>city cameras were moved to the location, and that provided

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<v Speaker 1>Crimes God detect this with a fortunate breakthrough. So the

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<v Speaker 1>incident down the street meant that some of the cameras

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<v Speaker 1>that are used for security around the streets were swung

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<v Speaker 1>into that area, and this gave them footage of cars

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<v Speaker 1>and movement that they otherwise might not have had. Now

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in debted to my colleague John Kaylor, who has

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<v Speaker 1>written this story recently was published in the Sunday Herald Sun,

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<v Speaker 1>and I thought it was one of the more interesting

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<v Speaker 1>high stories we've seen for a long time, and I

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<v Speaker 1>proposed to steal some of John's most excellent material with

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<v Speaker 1>his blessing, because he's explained it very well. Now, the

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<v Speaker 1>police officer who's ended up telling this story in retrospect

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<v Speaker 1>to John Kaylor is Detective Sergeant Mark Walsh. Clearly one

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<v Speaker 1>of the most interesting cases he's worked on. So Detective

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<v Speaker 1>Sergeant Walsh says this to Kaylor, it just happened to

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<v Speaker 1>be the same time that this offender was doing the

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<v Speaker 1>arm robbery. The camera captures the offender going back to

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<v Speaker 1>his car. Sergeant Walsh said, we wouldn't have had identification

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<v Speaker 1>on the car straight away if the other job, that is,

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<v Speaker 1>the other bank job hadn't happened. So we look at

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<v Speaker 1>the CCTV and it is of this man getting into

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<v Speaker 1>a white hold in Colorado and it's completely stock standard.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought it had to be a fleet car or

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<v Speaker 1>a higher car, and then we noticed two little stickers

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<v Speaker 1>in the windscreen on the side window. I took a

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<v Speaker 1>guest they were likely to be bar coats, and I

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<v Speaker 1>knew Budget scan in and scan out their higher cars.

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<v Speaker 1>So we contacted all the higher car companies because the

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<v Speaker 1>car had stolen plates on it, and all of them

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<v Speaker 1>said they didn't use hold In Colorado's bumma. So hitting

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<v Speaker 1>a dead end, the detectives headed out to where the

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<v Speaker 1>number plates were stolen. Another dead end. There were no

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<v Speaker 1>fingerprints and no CCTV footage. This is at premises where

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<v Speaker 1>people have had their number plates stolen. Detective Sergeant Walsh says,

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<v Speaker 1>I just thought, humor me, We'll go to a few

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<v Speaker 1>of the higher car companies around here and double check.

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<v Speaker 1>So the first one we go to is Budget in Camberwell,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'll pull into the driveway and sure enough there's

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<v Speaker 1>this Holden Colorado sitting there being cleaned. The person we

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<v Speaker 1>spoke to initially just made the call off their own

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<v Speaker 1>knowledge without properly looking into it. They only have four

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<v Speaker 1>of them in the country, and three of them are

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<v Speaker 1>used in the minds. What he means there is that

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<v Speaker 1>when they'd initially checked with Budget, the person they took

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<v Speaker 1>into a Budget said, oh, no, we haven't got any

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<v Speaker 1>of those Holden Colorados, which was almost true. Basically in

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<v Speaker 1>Melbourne they don't have any hold In Colorados. There's only

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<v Speaker 1>four of that particular model in the country. Three of

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<v Speaker 1>them are up in the mines and only one is

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<v Speaker 1>in Melbourne, so that answer was almost true, but not quite.

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<v Speaker 1>There was one in Melbourne and guess what, the crook

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<v Speaker 1>had hired it and that's where the crook came undone.

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<v Speaker 1>So once the police had established that this was the case,

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<v Speaker 1>Budget told the police that the carab been hired out

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<v Speaker 1>the afternoon before the robbery and have been brought back

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<v Speaker 1>about two hours after the time, so basically it has

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<v Speaker 1>to be it. So the police start looking closer. The

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<v Speaker 1>car had been hired out in the name of an

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<v Speaker 1>Asian female, but inquiries hit another dead end. She's got

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<v Speaker 1>no involvement, she's got no criminal history. She's out in

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<v Speaker 1>a really nice house in Hawthorne, Sergeant Moss said her partner,

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<v Speaker 1>Karl Kachami. He's a finance teacher at Deacon University. He

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<v Speaker 1>owns a second house on Brunswick Street in Fitzroy, which

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<v Speaker 1>is a mansion, and he owns an antique shop. He

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<v Speaker 1>just doesn't fit the profile of an arm robber at all.

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<v Speaker 1>So the police have got nothing, but the pressure is

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<v Speaker 1>on due to the fact that this is Victoria's third

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<v Speaker 1>biggest heist in history. It's worth millions, and they know

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<v Speaker 1>that they've got to get hold of somebody for doing it.

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<v Speaker 1>They know that the cash is going to vanish and

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<v Speaker 1>that the gold can be quickly melted down, so the

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<v Speaker 1>pressure is on to act. They follow this Carl Kachami

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<v Speaker 1>because they can. There's no other lead that they've got.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems that the Colorado car ute leads to him,

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<v Speaker 1>so they follow him. They just want to see if

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<v Speaker 1>he talks to anybody or what he does. Now, if

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<v Speaker 1>you're out there planning a heist, maybe learn from this

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<v Speaker 1>what not to do. He goes to Bunnings and he

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<v Speaker 1>buys some long PVC pipes, which police think is a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit strange, but it's hard to know. Depends what

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<v Speaker 1>he wants to do with it. Then he stops near

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<v Speaker 1>his mansion in Fitzroy and he dumps some stuff in

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<v Speaker 1>a rubbish bin, which of course always interests police or

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<v Speaker 1>private detectives or anybody else. The investigators go and look

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<v Speaker 1>in the bin and the only thing of value was

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<v Speaker 1>a cut up number plate, which would seem to be

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<v Speaker 1>of great value, you'd think. Sergeant Welsh says, there was

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<v Speaker 1>the letter S on each of them. We just thought

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<v Speaker 1>it was a bit dodgy. The letters matched where the

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<v Speaker 1>letters on the stolen number plates would be. Then we

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<v Speaker 1>watched as he took these PVC pipes into his mansion

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<v Speaker 1>in Fitzroy. We just thought we're going to have to

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<v Speaker 1>grab him because we have nothing else. The trailer is

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<v Speaker 1>going to go cold unless we try and do something

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<v Speaker 1>to try and get back the cash and the goal.

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<v Speaker 1>So they grab him, and Carl Kachami quite calm. He's

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<v Speaker 1>a lecturer, he's forty eight years old. He's a cool customer.

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<v Speaker 1>He denies any involvement. The police are puzzled because this

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<v Speaker 1>guy's really well spoken, he's smart. He's sitting there saying, yep,

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<v Speaker 1>I hired that car, but I just moved some antiques

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<v Speaker 1>from my store. I'm not sure why you've arrested me.

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to be as helpful as possible. So

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<v Speaker 1>we're sitting in this interview room and he's giving us

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<v Speaker 1>a story that was plausible but still a bit odd.

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<v Speaker 1>Well you would think that, wouldn't you. If he's dropping

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<v Speaker 1>cut up number plates around the place, that would be

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<v Speaker 1>a bit odd. During the interview, police execute a search

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<v Speaker 1>warrant on Carl's house in Hawthorne. The nice house with

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<v Speaker 1>the nice partner, the one who hired the ute. She's

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<v Speaker 1>probably totally innocent, I have to say. And in a

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<v Speaker 1>big antique desk in the house at Hawthorne, officers find

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<v Speaker 1>a semi automatic handgun, a couple of pieces of gold,

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<v Speaker 1>and more cut up number plate. This is where listeners

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<v Speaker 1>the plot thickens. Detectives have their tails up, do they what?

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<v Speaker 1>Carl then tells them a story that yes, I hired

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<v Speaker 1>the car. I did it for money, and when they

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<v Speaker 1>finished doing the arm robbery, they gave me bits of

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<v Speaker 1>gold and told me to hang on to the firearm

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<v Speaker 1>and return the car. So his story is one of

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<v Speaker 1>those classic things with a few touches of truth in it,

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<v Speaker 1>just enough to skate over the big porky. He's saying,

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<v Speaker 1>I got the car, but I did it for other people,

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<v Speaker 1>and they did all the bad things and they just

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<v Speaker 1>gave me a little bit of pocket change for my help.

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<v Speaker 1>It's basically what he's saying. I'm just a chump, is

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<v Speaker 1>what he's saying. And the police are like, nah, this

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't make sense. The police said, you're probably going to

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<v Speaker 1>jail for this, and people are going to know you've

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<v Speaker 1>got three or four million dollars and you might know

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<v Speaker 1>where it is. And if we don't get it back,

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<v Speaker 1>these issues with safety and people in jail are going

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<v Speaker 1>to know you've got access to this money. Now that

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<v Speaker 1>is a very real threat. You are some sort of

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<v Speaker 1>soft squarehead customer, no friends in jail. You get put

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<v Speaker 1>in jail. Everyone in jail knows why you're there immediately,

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<v Speaker 1>and if they think you have a lot of money

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<v Speaker 1>buried somewhere, it's not going to be very good for

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<v Speaker 1>you because they're all going to be standing over here

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<v Speaker 1>to get the money, and they're going to say, not

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<v Speaker 1>only we're going to break your fingers one by one

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<v Speaker 1>and throw boiling water over you and pull your teeth out,

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<v Speaker 1>whatever it takes, but we'll find out where you live

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<v Speaker 1>and we will make life very difficult for your family

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<v Speaker 1>or your loved ones. And this is a very real threat,

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<v Speaker 1>and that is why the police pointed it out. They

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<v Speaker 1>pointed out the truth to Carl Kacharmi that if he

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<v Speaker 1>went to jail, he was in a world of pain.

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<v Speaker 1>But anyway, for the meantime, he sticks to his story,

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<v Speaker 1>but he's starting to twist things around a bit, and

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<v Speaker 1>he says, look, I've seen a photo of where the

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<v Speaker 1>gold is buried, and I can take you there. His

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<v Speaker 1>memory is starting to come back. He says, I've seen

0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:51.880
<v Speaker 1>a photo, obviously implying that other bad guys took the

0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.040
<v Speaker 1>gold and buried it. But he thinks he knows where

0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:58.000
<v Speaker 1>it might be so he can take them there. So

0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.120
<v Speaker 1>by this time the police are away. It's ten o'clock

0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.760
<v Speaker 1>at night and the boss has had to call the

0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.880
<v Speaker 1>detectives back in after a twelve hour shift and tell

0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.080
<v Speaker 1>them that they're going for a drive. So they all

0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.880
<v Speaker 1>get in a police card, they get maps on their

0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:18.120
<v Speaker 1>iPhones and he leads them to a place called Dollar. Now,

0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:20.560
<v Speaker 1>when he said that, the police thought he was having

0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.640
<v Speaker 1>a joke with them, because you know, it's a robbery

0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.920
<v Speaker 1>that's worth millions of dollars, and he says he's taking

0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.240
<v Speaker 1>them to a place called Dollar. Little did they know

0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:31.840
<v Speaker 1>then that there is a tiny little place in South

0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:36.920
<v Speaker 1>Gippsland called Dollar, and it's up in the hills out

0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.720
<v Speaker 1>the back of you know, leaning Gathriell, Cranborough or where.

0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.040
<v Speaker 1>When they get there, it's a fair way. When they

0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.760
<v Speaker 1>get there, it's one am, it's raining and all they've

0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:50.320
<v Speaker 1>got is their phone, torches. They didn't have real torches,

0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.960
<v Speaker 1>which is surprising. You'd think police would have those great, big, long,

0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.360
<v Speaker 1>heavy duty torches that they can hit people with. But anyway,

0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:03.000
<v Speaker 1>they've got one shovel and a robart because that's all

0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.600
<v Speaker 1>they could rustle up in time. They walk five hundred

0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:11.360
<v Speaker 1>meters across farmland and Carl Kachami points to a rock,

0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.880
<v Speaker 1>So the police start digging, and they're on their hands

0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.000
<v Speaker 1>and knees and trying to pull away the dirt. They're

0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 1>taking it in turns, but they're soaking wet and covered

0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:27.160
<v Speaker 1>in mud. After two hours and about one hundred and

0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:30.920
<v Speaker 1>twenty centimeters down out in the old money that's four

0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:35.080
<v Speaker 1>foot one hundred and twenty centimeters one point two meters.

0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:39.400
<v Speaker 1>That's a pretty deep hoole. They find a toolbox, the

0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:45.000
<v Speaker 1>same toolbox as the offender used in the CCTV footage

0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.720
<v Speaker 1>of the robbery. When they found the toolbox, the police

0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.400
<v Speaker 1>were expecting it to be like the movies, and they

0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:55.760
<v Speaker 1>thought that'd be all full of going gold. As news

0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.960
<v Speaker 1>spread about the police being in town, another local contacted detective.

0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.480
<v Speaker 1>The locals described a man that they had seen looking

0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:08.200
<v Speaker 1>puzzled and staring into a malways looking for directions to

0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.800
<v Speaker 1>Dollar and when one of the locals asked this guy

0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.720
<v Speaker 1>why was going there, he replied to do some digging.

0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.640
<v Speaker 1>Now the police checked CCTV and realized that the mystery

0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:22.160
<v Speaker 1>man that is described them and that they then saw

0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:27.800
<v Speaker 1>on CCTV in South Gippsland was in fact the gold

0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.800
<v Speaker 1>dealer manager Daniel Ead. Now this is the guy who

0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.440
<v Speaker 1>at the start of our story is the poor chap

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.440
<v Speaker 1>who's been robbed. He's been tied up and robbed at

0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:41.040
<v Speaker 1>the gold company in Colt Street. Guess what he's out

0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.520
<v Speaker 1>there looking to dig up the gold, which would suggest

0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:47.720
<v Speaker 1>that he knew all about it. Was not only a

0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.400
<v Speaker 1>party to the scheme, he was the author of the scheme.

0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:56.240
<v Speaker 1>The police knew that Parol Karl Kochami wouldn't have done

0:16:56.280 --> 0:17:00.680
<v Speaker 1>this alone. But it was only at this point that

0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:04.880
<v Speaker 1>the police are able to link Daniel d into the

0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:11.040
<v Speaker 1>cunning plot. And Sergeant Well says this, when you first

0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.760
<v Speaker 1>look at c c t V, you're looking at the

0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.280
<v Speaker 1>offender and stuff. But when we looked at the footage

0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:21.119
<v Speaker 1>back again, we noticed what Daniel was doing. That is

0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.480
<v Speaker 1>this time the police are looking at the victim, the

0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:27.439
<v Speaker 1>supposed victim of the robbery, and when they study his

0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:33.960
<v Speaker 1>actions during the robbery, they say it's only slight. But

0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:40.040
<v Speaker 1>as Carl comes through the door, he meaning Daniel motions

0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:44.800
<v Speaker 1>for him, meaning Karl, to pull the firearm out. He

0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.040
<v Speaker 1>just makes a slight tilt of his head. And then

0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.960
<v Speaker 1>there's another point where he's emptying out the cash and

0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.359
<v Speaker 1>Daniel motions his head pointing to the other side of

0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:58.879
<v Speaker 1>the room. And where was he pointing and Carl doesn't

0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:02.760
<v Speaker 1>pick up on it. He's pointing at a safe where

0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.840
<v Speaker 1>there's another six million dollars in cash and gold. Or

0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:10.200
<v Speaker 1>can you believe that they haven't rehearsed their plot properly?

0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:16.679
<v Speaker 1>And our mate, our amateur robber, our amateur fake robber,

0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.920
<v Speaker 1>has managed to miss six million in gold and cash

0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:25.600
<v Speaker 1>and get away with about half that much. Dear, oh, dear, oh, dear.

0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:30.960
<v Speaker 1>So a raid on Karl Kuchami's Fitzroy property revealed the

0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:35.000
<v Speaker 1>PVC pipes. They contained three hundred thousand dollars in cash.

0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:39.040
<v Speaker 1>Another three hundred and thirty three thousand dollars in cash,

0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:43.840
<v Speaker 1>believed to be Daniel EAD's share, remained missing. When the

0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:46.040
<v Speaker 1>game was up, the police went back to Carl and

0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.879
<v Speaker 1>asked him why he did it, and he said it

0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.879
<v Speaker 1>was all to do with COVID. He said he turned

0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:56.439
<v Speaker 1>his Fitzroy mansion into a twelve bet accommodation that he

0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.720
<v Speaker 1>was renting out to UNI students and when COVID hit,

0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.879
<v Speaker 1>all international students went home. So then his rental income

0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:07.200
<v Speaker 1>was lost and the house needed a lot of renovations

0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:13.320
<v Speaker 1>and stuff. And his part in this plot, this fake

0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:18.880
<v Speaker 1>robbery was the fund renovations of that old place. When

0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:22.160
<v Speaker 1>it finally went to court in twenty twenty one, the

0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:26.359
<v Speaker 1>inside man, Daniel Ead was sentenced to five years and

0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:30.960
<v Speaker 1>nine months in prison with a non parole period of

0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.720
<v Speaker 1>three years and nine months. That's almost four years. But

0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:40.280
<v Speaker 1>the fake bandit, Karl Kachami was clearly thought to be

0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:46.480
<v Speaker 1>the minor partner in this wrought, and he was sentenced

0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.080
<v Speaker 1>to four years in prison with a non parole period

0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:55.000
<v Speaker 1>of two years. And so Karl has been out and

0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:59.360
<v Speaker 1>about for quite a while, a sadder and wiser real

0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:04.800
<v Speaker 1>estate vs Because presumably he lost his excellent job of

0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:11.080
<v Speaker 1>teaching at Deacon University. Thanks for listening. Life and Crimes

0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.719
<v Speaker 1>is a Sunday Herald Sun production for true crime Australia.

0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:19.640
<v Speaker 1>Our producer is Johnty Burton. For my columns, features and more,

0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:25.440
<v Speaker 1>go to Heroldsun dot com dot au, forward slash Andrew

0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:31.560
<v Speaker 1>Rule one word. For advertising inquiries, go to news Podcasts

0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:35.560
<v Speaker 1>sold at news dot com dot au. That is all

0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:40.359
<v Speaker 1>one word news podcasts sold. And if you want further

0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:44.960
<v Speaker 1>information about this episode, links are in the description.