Speaker 1: I'll get a you bloody champions, it's harps. Welcome to
Speaker 1: another installment the You Project. You know what for the
Speaker 1: seven eight hundredth and sometime the other day was episode
Speaker 1: seven eight hundred and it passed. It came and went,
Speaker 1: and I didn't even acknowledge it, so I should be
Speaker 1: mad at me. But anyway, Fuck, it was seventeen hundred
Speaker 1: and something episodes. We're still here? Did you know that?
Speaker 1: The I think it's the average podcast. The average podcast
Speaker 1: only lasts something like, I don't know, not many three.
Speaker 1: It might be seven, it might be three, but it's
Speaker 1: less than ten. So how the fuck we got to
Speaker 1: seven eeen hundred and something that we've been around six
Speaker 1: years and people are actually still listening. That's either a
Speaker 1: testament to what we're doing or an indictment on you listeners.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure either way. Fucking he fuck we're still here.
Speaker 1: I tell you someone who has listened to a few
Speaker 1: episodes and been to a few workshops of mine and
Speaker 1: hails from the Sunshine State and has an interesting story
Speaker 1: and has finally agreed to chat with me on the
Speaker 1: aforementioned program as Nicole Ladell, who I call Nick. Hi, Nick,
Speaker 1: hey sore, you go, Oh fuck, I'm so good. I'm
Speaker 1: so good. It's Sunday, it's five point thirty nine. The
Speaker 1: birds are singing, the bees are buzzing. It's been a
Speaker 1: good day. It's to be honest, it's been a day
Speaker 1: and a weekend with a few challenges, but we won't
Speaker 1: go there. Nothing too terrible. But now you were down
Speaker 1: in Melbourne yesterday you like I said, Sunshine State, and
Speaker 1: we caught up momentarily and had a coffee in a chat.
Speaker 1: And I didn't tell you this yesterday because I didn't
Speaker 1: know when we might do it, and I like telling
Speaker 1: I like springing it on people so they can't plan.
Speaker 1: But I thought, as you were telling me your story
Speaker 1: that you would be good to have a chat with
Speaker 1: and before we dive in. So the reason that I
Speaker 1: want to talk about this everyone is because my demographic
Speaker 1: is about seventy percent female. Not sure why, so dudes
Speaker 1: come on lifting you do who are listening that thank you,
Speaker 1: But if you get a few of your dude mates,
Speaker 1: that'd be great. But seventy percent female and a lot
Speaker 1: of women somewhere in the ballpark of thirty five to sixty.
Speaker 1: And we know, as I said to you before we
Speaker 1: started recording. We know that, you know, people listen to
Speaker 1: this show because they want to learn something, or they
Speaker 1: want to be a bit inspired, or they want to
Speaker 1: grow or evolve or improve their situation or their mindset
Speaker 1: or their physiology, psychology, sociology results in some way. And
Speaker 1: I'm very impressed with you because when I met you
Speaker 1: at one of my workshops, how long ago do you
Speaker 1: reckon our Paths cross? When I'm going.
Speaker 2: To say, it was around two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1: Right, So that is that is sixteen years ago. So
Speaker 1: you would have been thirty five years old. And you
Speaker 1: don't mind me saying that you're fifty one, because that's
Speaker 1: going to come up. So you were thirty five, and
Speaker 1: what was life like? What was happening when you were
Speaker 1: thirty five, because you've had an interesting journey since, But
Speaker 1: what tell us what thirty five looked like for you?
Speaker 1: Thirty five looked like a.
Speaker 2: I had.
Speaker 3: I had lost a lot of weight at that point,
Speaker 3: so I had followed that online program that we're talking
Speaker 3: met yesterday and came across you during that.
Speaker 2: And I was married and my.
Speaker 3: Children were quite young, and I had started doing triathon.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you remember that. But I used
Speaker 3: to do triathon.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I was married, but it was falling apart.
Speaker 1: I'll put it that way, Okay, okay, And so here
Speaker 1: we are sixteen years later, and it's fair to say
Speaker 1: that there's been a lot of peaks and troughs and
Speaker 1: not unlike the host of the You Project, You're gain weight,
Speaker 1: you lost weight, you got in shape, you got out
Speaker 1: of shape. You're fucking in the zone, out of the zone, flying, dying, flying,
Speaker 1: dying up down right. That's it's a typical kind of
Speaker 1: experience for many people, not all people, but a lot
Speaker 1: of people. So I just asked you before we went live,
Speaker 1: and you've lost thirty five k's I saw you yesterday.
Speaker 1: You look great. You're fifty one, you fit, you're healthy,
Speaker 1: you look as good as I've ever seen you. Look.
Speaker 1: How long have you been in the shape that you're
Speaker 1: currently in.
Speaker 3: I would say so, I've been on a bit of
Speaker 3: a journey for the last two years. So I've lost
Speaker 3: thirty five in the last two years. So I've probably
Speaker 3: been maintained my current weight for about six months, but
Speaker 3: have been solidly consistently training and eating healthy for over
Speaker 3: two years.
Speaker 1: Great and why do you think it's different this time?
Speaker 1: And why do you think you won't go back? Like
Speaker 1: why do you think? I'm sure you think that and
Speaker 1: I know it, Yeah, you know it. Okay, great, Why
Speaker 1: do you know you're never going to go back?
Speaker 3: I honestly because I've It's not just my body that
Speaker 3: I've worked on.
Speaker 2: So you know, I've done the training, I've lost the weight.
Speaker 2: But in the last.
Speaker 3: Ten or you know, six to ten years, there's been
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff that's happened where I've really excavated
Speaker 3: a lot of my own internal stuff.
Speaker 2: And you know, kind of looked at.
Speaker 3: Patterns of behavior and how I.
Speaker 2: Got to where I was and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: And so now my kids are all adults, so I'm
Speaker 2: not so parenting.
Speaker 1: It's me.
Speaker 3: It's like I am the priority. And yeah, I love training,
Speaker 3: like I love living like this. This is this is
Speaker 3: where I'm happy. So I'm just not choosing to go
Speaker 3: back to where I wasn't happy.
Speaker 1: So you said you had to excavate some internal stuff.
Speaker 1: I like that, the internal excavation, right, Wow, what stuff?
Speaker 1: Like what did you need to change or what did
Speaker 1: you need to own up to or what did you
Speaker 1: need to realize deal with what was that.
Speaker 2: Just how I show up in the world, and like.
Speaker 3: The I had to take responsibility for some of the
Speaker 3: situations that I've been in. Yeah, I'm kind of just
Speaker 3: understand and the role that I've played in some of
Speaker 3: the things that have happened in my life that have
Speaker 3: you know, caused trauma and drama.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I just it was really just.
Speaker 3: Taking responsibility and learning how to set boundaries, I think
Speaker 3: was the big one.
Speaker 2: We're talking yesterday. I think a little bit about being discerning.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like tell me the relationship between I know
Speaker 1: I'm interrupting, but it's relevant soon. So we're not you
Speaker 1: when I asked you about excavating internal stuff, I was
Speaker 1: talking about in relation to getting in shape. Then you
Speaker 1: started talking about trauma. Yeah, so talk to me about
Speaker 1: getting in shape physically and navigating food and exercise and
Speaker 1: weight loss. And by the way, when we talk about
Speaker 1: weight loss, we're not talking about, you know, from an
Speaker 1: esthetic point of view or an ego point of view.
Speaker 1: We're talking about health, wellness function. But then you so
Speaker 1: talk to me a little bit about the correlation you scientists,
Speaker 1: between the emotional stuff, the trauma stuff, the body stuff
Speaker 1: and the changing your life forever stuff.
Speaker 3: Well I think so I don't know without giving you
Speaker 3: my entire life story, which I could do but we
Speaker 3: don't really have time for.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of women can relate to this.
Speaker 2: So our bodies are very.
Speaker 3: Connected to our emotions. I truly believe that, and to
Speaker 3: trauma as well. So when I went through some stuff,
Speaker 3: you know, about ten years ago, I started really looking
Speaker 3: into sematics, so I read you know, The Body Keeps
Speaker 3: the Score and all of those trauma informed sort of books,
Speaker 3: and I just I think just having the awareness of
Speaker 3: I used to use weight to keep the world out,
Speaker 3: so if I was overweight and big and not attractive,
Speaker 3: I didn't draw attention to myself and therefore no one
Speaker 3: could hurt me.
Speaker 1: So I've heard that quite a bit. And so for you,
Speaker 1: was that a subconscious manifestation Like obviously didn't think, all right,
Speaker 1: what I'm going to do is I'm going to put
Speaker 1: on thirty k's I'm going to be So that's a
Speaker 1: subconscious protection, protective mechanism.
Speaker 3: Yes, very much so, because I you know, I've been
Speaker 3: I've been obese, I've been thin, I've been an athlete,
Speaker 3: I've been all of those things, and the world interacts
Speaker 3: with us differently.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't care how much people say it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. It does matter. The world interacts with us.
Speaker 3: Differently depending on how we look. And so I felt
Speaker 3: very vulnerable in the world. So being overweighted, I became
Speaker 3: invisible and I think I subconsciously deliberately did that.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 3: Ah, and then you know, the shame that comes around
Speaker 3: that as well, because health, looking after yourself and health
Speaker 3: is also one of my values. It's quite a lot
Speaker 3: living in alignment with my value. So the shame and
Speaker 3: the guilt comes on top of that. And but then
Speaker 3: so part of what I had to learn was being
Speaker 3: discerning and setting boundaries and having self compassion and all
Speaker 3: of those things that come along with dealing with trauma.
Speaker 2: And so once I realized that I can.
Speaker 3: Actually set boundaries, then I can then I'm now I'm
Speaker 3: comfortable being in the world, not you know, not being
Speaker 3: one hundred kilos. I don't need to be one hundred
Speaker 3: kilos to keep people away.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a two edged sword that, you know,
Speaker 1: being bigger and heavier, and now I'm invisible, and I
Speaker 1: don't get the same kind of attension that I didn't want.
Speaker 1: And I'm less vulnerable now no one's looking at me,
Speaker 1: and but it is a two edged sword because but
Speaker 1: also I don't really want to look like this or
Speaker 1: feel like this, or carry around all of this weight
Speaker 1: or put my health at risk or yeah, yeah, what
Speaker 1: what I mean? So for you, what was? Maybe we'll
Speaker 1: talk about as much or as little as you want.
Speaker 1: Have you either way? Have you ever this your first podcast?
Speaker 1: Every you've done it right, I've done a couple. You're
Speaker 1: doing very well. Listen to me, giving you a score
Speaker 1: five stars. We'll talk about any potential trauma stuff maybe
Speaker 1: if you want, but like on a kind of an
Speaker 1: emotional level in terms of because I've said this, like
Speaker 1: my first book literally was about the psychology and the
Speaker 1: emotion of changing a body, right, And that was really
Speaker 1: before I was too clued up. But I realized early
Speaker 1: days when I was working with people that you know,
Speaker 1: changing your body and keeping it changed is not really
Speaker 1: that much about your body. Like your body is the
Speaker 1: byproduct of sorting out the ship. You need to sort
Speaker 1: out the emotional and psychological and ritualistic and habitual underlying
Speaker 1: shit that just happens to create a body that looks
Speaker 1: and functions like X and y. You know. And so
Speaker 1: because your body isn't making decisions, your body is just
Speaker 1: bearing the brunt of your decisions, be they good or
Speaker 1: bad decisions. So what was the emotional stuff that you
Speaker 1: needed to address?
Speaker 2: Self compassion?
Speaker 1: So can I what does that mean for you? For me?
Speaker 3: I have lived most of my life being my biggest critic,
Speaker 3: So I you know, I would I would be concerned
Speaker 3: about other people judging me, but no one was judging
Speaker 3: me more than I was judging myself. Yes, and so
Speaker 3: I you know, and for choices that I'd made and
Speaker 3: situations that I ended up in that caused me harm,
Speaker 3: I blamed myself.
Speaker 2: And so self compassion.
Speaker 3: Was big on the on the list of things that
Speaker 3: I had to learn to do, like to be able
Speaker 3: to say that even good people make mistakes or you know,
Speaker 3: no one is all good or all bad. And yeah,
Speaker 3: so just kind of understanding me as if I was
Speaker 3: dealing with myself as a friend, Like how would I
Speaker 3: talk to my friend if my friend was going through
Speaker 3: the stuff that I was going through. So that allowed
Speaker 3: me to be softer with myself. Lots off there, but
Speaker 3: also understanding that my body actually belongs to me, not
Speaker 3: the world and not a partner or not any man
Speaker 3: down the street, or you know, like my body one
Speaker 3: hundred percent belongs to me. Now I actually really believe
Speaker 3: that now for the first time, at fifty one, that
Speaker 3: it's mine to do with what I want to do.
Speaker 1: You know. Tell me just like like on an intellectual level,
Speaker 1: you always knew that. Like if I said to you
Speaker 1: when you were thirty five, Nick, do you know that
Speaker 1: your body is you'd go, yeah, of course, But tell
Speaker 1: me about the divergence between intellectually understanding something but at
Speaker 1: the same time not feeling it, Like what you say,
Speaker 1: now you know your body's yours. What was the status before?
Speaker 3: Well, the status before was the whole people pleasing thing,
Speaker 3: you know that, which I.
Speaker 2: Know you've talked about a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the belief I think it comes down to
Speaker 3: those world views and those real internal call beliefs. So
Speaker 3: when I talk about excavating, it's like really getting through
Speaker 3: what are those core beliefs that are driving the behaviors.
Speaker 3: So I grew up, like a lot of women, and
Speaker 3: especially my age, believing that our role was to please
Speaker 3: others or to you know, I was talking to you
Speaker 3: yesterday about going to UNI and my dad when I
Speaker 3: left school, and my dad said, no, you'll get married
Speaker 3: and your husband will look after you. Don't need to
Speaker 3: go to university. Girls don't go to university. So I
Speaker 3: was the conditioning that my whole role or reason for
Speaker 3: even existing was to just please other people or two
Speaker 3: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So just so you wanted to go to UNI. And
Speaker 1: dad went, no, you won't go to UNI. You'll marry
Speaker 1: a bloke and he'll look after you.
Speaker 3: Yep, that was his exact words to me, was you don't.
Speaker 3: Girls don't go to university.
Speaker 2: Because I had I had I was. I wanted to
Speaker 2: do either psychology or drama.
Speaker 3: I had applied for both, and I had an audition
Speaker 3: for the drama program. I can't remember what it was
Speaker 3: now or even what UNI it was. And my dad said, no, wow, no,
Speaker 3: girls don't go to university. I'll get you a job
Speaker 3: in a bank, which he did. He got me a
Speaker 3: job because.
Speaker 2: He knew the bank manager.
Speaker 3: I'll get you a job in a bank and then
Speaker 3: you'll get married and your husband will look after you.
Speaker 2: And that's I mean.
Speaker 3: I went around about it a different way, but that's
Speaker 3: essentially what happened.
Speaker 1: I didn't. Yeah, okay, so we'll jump around a little bit.
Speaker 1: But one of the reasons I wanted I wanted to
Speaker 1: chat to you was because at the astonishingly old age
Speaker 1: of forty three, you went back or you didn't go
Speaker 1: back to UNI. So did you do year twelve?
Speaker 3: I did you twelve and I had done I think
Speaker 3: it was maybe two years or a year before I
Speaker 3: went to UNI. I did finish a diploma, so but
Speaker 3: that was that was it. I did year twelve. I
Speaker 3: think I finished Year twelve in I can't even tell
Speaker 3: you what year it was.
Speaker 1: So you finished year twelve at eighteen, and then you
Speaker 1: started university at forty three, yes, so that's quarter of
Speaker 1: a century. So all right, So one of I mean, firstly,
Speaker 1: I don't think I definitely don't think everyone needs to
Speaker 1: go to university. I think for some people university is
Speaker 1: and not because they're not smart enough, just because I
Speaker 1: don't think it suits them. Right. And in fact, if
Speaker 1: you I'm glad I didn't go to university at eighteen
Speaker 1: nine and twenty because for me at that stage it
Speaker 1: wouldn't have suited me. I wouldn't have been very good
Speaker 1: at it. I may not have even gone, but when
Speaker 1: I did, when I did go to university for the
Speaker 1: first time, which was when I was thirty six, I
Speaker 1: was mentally, emotionally and practically in the right place. But
Speaker 1: tell me about like I love the fact that, like
Speaker 1: I said to you at the start, so many of
Speaker 1: our listeners are you know, it's like you're almost the demographic.
Speaker 1: You know, it's really broad. Of course, we have teenagers
Speaker 1: who listen, and people in their seventies who listen, and
Speaker 1: men and women and people from all around the world.
Speaker 1: But I'm always encouraging people to learn and to be
Speaker 1: curious and to you know, whether or not that's formal
Speaker 1: learning education, formal education or informal or experiential or you
Speaker 1: know whatever. But so, what precipitated the decision to go
Speaker 1: back to UNI? What was it like? How did you go?
Speaker 1: Were you great at it? Were you fucking terrified? What
Speaker 1: was it like?
Speaker 2: Well, the decision was made on a whim. I was.
Speaker 3: It wasn't long. I remember you came up and we
Speaker 3: caught up for coffee. You come up for something and
Speaker 3: you caught up for coffee.
Speaker 2: And I was a little bit of a mess at
Speaker 2: the time, because I was coming out.
Speaker 3: Of an emotionally psychologically abusive relationship. Yeah, so it'd already
Speaker 3: I'd already been divorced for about five years at the time,
Speaker 3: and I was I was a bit lost.
Speaker 2: So not long after that.
Speaker 3: I had a kind of it's that proverbial rock bottom,
Speaker 3: I think where I had. I kind of came to
Speaker 3: the conclusion that I was never going to depend on
Speaker 3: a man again financially.
Speaker 2: I needed to take care of myself. Was being financial
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 3: Being financially dependent on somebody, which is what I was
Speaker 3: raised to be, wasn't safe for me.
Speaker 2: So I needed to create my own life.
Speaker 3: And then a friend of mine had finished her social
Speaker 3: work degree and I jokingly sort of said, I'd love
Speaker 3: to I wish I had it gone to UNI or something,
Speaker 3: and she sort of said, well why don't you.
Speaker 2: I said, I'm too old now, and how would I
Speaker 2: How can I.
Speaker 3: Put food on the table and go to use it
Speaker 3: is not possible, And plus the degree I want to
Speaker 3: do is a six year degree, and you know all
Speaker 3: of these reasons. And then another friend of mine, I've
Speaker 3: mentioned it to another friend of mine and she said,
Speaker 3: you should just do it, And I said, well, I
Speaker 3: couldn't even afford the I think it was at the
Speaker 3: time sixty nine dollars queue TAC fee to apply and
Speaker 3: the semester was starting in a week or two weeks.
Speaker 1: To tell people what q TAC is, Oh, que tech.
Speaker 3: Is the Queensland Tertiary. I can't remember what it stands for,
Speaker 3: but it's it's the application center. So you you have
Speaker 3: to apply through them and tell them what university and
Speaker 3: program you want to do, so they're the ones that decide,
Speaker 3: and so you.
Speaker 2: Have to pay a fee to apply.
Speaker 3: And she this friend of mine just gave me her
Speaker 3: credit card number and said do it now.
Speaker 2: So I just jumped online and did it.
Speaker 1: So at the time, you couldn't even afford that fee.
Speaker 3: No, No, at the time, I had friends were buying
Speaker 3: me groceries.
Speaker 2: That's that's where I was at. It was I could.
Speaker 2: I was barely paying the rent and I had.
Speaker 3: I was shopping at the food co op some days
Speaker 3: this without sounding over dramatic, but some days I didn't send.
Speaker 2: The kids to school because I didn't have any lunch
Speaker 2: for them. So it was bad. It was pretty bad.
Speaker 1: It was pretty bad.
Speaker 3: So it was really just a it was kind of
Speaker 3: like I have to do something, Like I had to
Speaker 3: do something to change the trajectory of my life.
Speaker 1: And I didn't.
Speaker 2: I didn't know beyond each day what the next week
Speaker 2: was going to look like.
Speaker 3: So I just decided to go to university and suck
Speaker 3: it and see just show up every day and see where,
Speaker 3: like just one foot in front of the other.
Speaker 2: One semester one thirteen.
Speaker 3: You know, semesters are a thirteen week block, and it
Speaker 3: was like, just get through each thirteen week block and
Speaker 3: you're moving closer to something. And I started getting so
Speaker 3: I got that. I got a job at the university
Speaker 3: pretty much straight away.
Speaker 1: Hang On, hang on, hang on, hang on. You didn't
Speaker 1: tell us about your applied you got accepted.
Speaker 2: I got accepted.
Speaker 1: Well, tell us about one. What the fuck did you
Speaker 1: study or what did you apply for? Tell us about
Speaker 1: getting accepted. How did you feel when you go, fucking hell,
Speaker 1: I'm a university student.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I did a psychology degree, which is what
Speaker 3: I'd always wanted to do. And yeah, I got the
Speaker 3: email to say I got in, and it was, you know,
Speaker 3: a holy shit sort of moment. I went to O week.
Speaker 3: I was telling you this yesterday, I went to open day,
Speaker 3: and I was lost. I had never stepped foot on
Speaker 3: a university campus before.
Speaker 2: To me, university was.
Speaker 3: Always something that other people did like it was never
Speaker 3: I was told that it was never for me, so
Speaker 3: I believed it was.
Speaker 2: Never for me. I was not one of those people.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: So I'm on campus, I'm walking around. I didn't know
Speaker 3: a single soul. I obviously looked lost, and somebody said,
Speaker 3: you know, do you need some help? Can I help
Speaker 3: you find your way? And I said, I'm looking for
Speaker 3: this building? And they said to me, are you undergrad
Speaker 3: or postgrad? And I just looked and I went, I
Speaker 3: don't I don't even know what that means. I don't
Speaker 3: know what and she went undergrad. If you don't know
Speaker 3: the difference, then you're undergrad. I went, okay, And of course,
Speaker 3: now I know undergrad is like, you know, primary school
Speaker 3: versus high school.
Speaker 1: Could you just explain to our listeners who are basically
Speaker 1: a version of what you like, what is maybe just
Speaker 1: go through undergrad? You know, honors and butt like, what
Speaker 1: is the hierarchy? What does it mean? Just so for
Speaker 1: people who have got their l plates on with this language.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so an undergraduate degree is your first degree right,
Speaker 3: it's the it's the primary school, I guess you could say.
Speaker 3: So undergrad is usually the first three to four years,
Speaker 3: and then once you finish your once you finish your undergrad,
Speaker 3: then you go to.
Speaker 2: Oh you could do honors.
Speaker 3: So for the psyche, it's like three years undergrad psyche
Speaker 3: and then a fourth year of it's called an honor's year.
Speaker 2: So that's a level up.
Speaker 3: And then you can go to master's level, so a
Speaker 3: master's degree and then a PhD or you know, a
Speaker 3: PhD is the highest level of education, so undergrad is
Speaker 3: the beginning.
Speaker 2: pH d is, Yeah, but not everywhere. You don't have to.
Speaker 1: Do the whole and so some people might do for example,
Speaker 1: like an undergrad degree. Generally they're called a bachelor's degree
Speaker 1: as well, you know, so a bachelor Bachelor of accounting
Speaker 1: or like me, my first degree was a Bachelor of
Speaker 1: Exercise Science, or you could do a Bachelor of fucking
Speaker 1: you know and pitten plaster scene. I don't know, but
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it can be a start and finish in itself,
Speaker 1: or yeah, you can build on it. Yeah, so you
Speaker 1: did your degree, then what do you do after that?
Speaker 1: After your undergrad?
Speaker 3: So then I did the Psychology Honors, which is a
Speaker 3: twelvemonth degree. It's coursework as well as a research project.
Speaker 2: So you have to do a research project.
Speaker 1: And what was your research project on? It was.
Speaker 3: Perceived impacts of stress on train driver performance.
Speaker 1: Wow, hang on, let me perceived effects of stress.
Speaker 2: On train drive train driver performance? Yeah, so how do
Speaker 2: other systems?
Speaker 3: Are the stakeholders in the rail industry as well as
Speaker 3: train drivers, so how do they perceive acute dress would
Speaker 3: impact a performance? And then we compared those perceptions across
Speaker 3: all the different jobs and stakeholders across the rail system
Speaker 3: just to see whether or not the other people and
Speaker 3: the other people working in rail understood the same. It's
Speaker 3: the experiences of train drivers because they're the ones making
Speaker 3: all the decisions.
Speaker 2: So that was basically what it was about.
Speaker 1: Can I just backtrack a tiny bit? That's that's interesting.
Speaker 1: I just want I just want to know what the
Speaker 1: first semester of day, one week, one semester one of
Speaker 1: university life. For the girl who didn't know what an
Speaker 1: undergrad degree was, it was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew.
Speaker 3: I went and sat in my first lecture theater. I
Speaker 3: can still feel the feeling and I'd never been in
Speaker 3: a university lecture theater before and they're big, like they
Speaker 3: seek three four hundred people, right, and in fact Monash.
Speaker 2: Is probably he's bigger than ours.
Speaker 3: But sat there with one hundreds of students and the
Speaker 3: lecturer comes in and I'm just like, wow, I'm here.
Speaker 3: This is where I like this is. I knew that
Speaker 3: that's where I needed to be. It was this deep
Speaker 3: innate knowing that that was the right place for me.
Speaker 3: I had no idea, and you know, I struggled the
Speaker 3: first semester. I white knuckled it. I didn't understand, you know,
Speaker 3: I took about mean and medium and mode and all
Speaker 3: that sort of stuff. There was basic knowledge that I
Speaker 3: didn't have that there was assumed knowledge that I didn't have.
Speaker 3: So I struggled in the first semester of just trying
Speaker 3: to even understand the basic stuff. So there were times
Speaker 3: where I thought I don't belong here, Like there were
Speaker 3: times where I thought I can't do this, and then I.
Speaker 2: Was just like, well, just suck it and see just
Speaker 2: see how you go.
Speaker 3: And then you know, you get your first assignment back
Speaker 3: and you get good marks, or someone.
Speaker 2: Says you write really well, or you know, just the
Speaker 2: little things along the way that just keep you going.
Speaker 1: So it's like and it's like for me, going to
Speaker 1: UNI was like going to a new country where you
Speaker 1: know that everyone speaks English, but they also speak another
Speaker 1: language that you don't have. I'm like, oh and now,
Speaker 1: as you well know, now, although you you were better
Speaker 1: prepared for me because Nicole's now doing her PhD. But
Speaker 1: you know, that's a whole another level of language and
Speaker 1: culture and understanding and and the way that that that
Speaker 1: you know that that level of academia is yeah, that's
Speaker 1: like going to Russia. Well that's like kind somewhere definitely
Speaker 1: where they don't speak Craig. Like where I'm at, nobody
Speaker 1: speaks Greg which neither should they. But it's it's a
Speaker 1: new world, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, completely different world.
Speaker 3: And I did everything I could to to make sure
Speaker 3: that I had the best chance.
Speaker 2: To do well.
Speaker 3: So I sought out all of the academic skills workshops.
Speaker 3: I went to every everything I could go to to
Speaker 3: help me build skills.
Speaker 2: I went to.
Speaker 3: I engaged in everything possible within the university, and that
Speaker 3: was you know, later on down the track when I
Speaker 3: started working with new students and stuff, it was like
Speaker 3: that was my That was my key piece of advice,
Speaker 3: is just engaging everything possible to support yourself through the process.
Speaker 3: Because I hadn't I really had no idea.
Speaker 1: So I want to know about the dough. I want
Speaker 1: to know about the dough, ray me, because before you started,
Speaker 1: you had no money and you're worry about how do
Speaker 1: I put fucking food on the table. Now you still
Speaker 1: don't have a job, and now you're a student on
Speaker 1: top of that, so like, how did you How did
Speaker 1: your children not starve to death and die of neglect.
Speaker 3: I applied for scholarships and worked really hard, so I
Speaker 3: didn't go one semester where I Apart from the first semester,
Speaker 3: every single.
Speaker 2: Semester after that I was awarded some.
Speaker 3: Kind of scholarship, even if it was just one thousand dollars,
Speaker 3: So anywhere from one thousand dollars to five thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: Scholarships were available for students. Some of them were merit based,
Speaker 3: some of them were bursary based, you know, demographic based,
Speaker 3: so that helped.
Speaker 2: That helped a lot.
Speaker 3: After the first six months, I started applying for jobs
Speaker 3: at the university and I got a job, a casual
Speaker 3: position in students Central and then I became a student ambassador.
Speaker 3: So I just I just ended up with a few
Speaker 3: different casual jobs around the university, which subsidized because our
Speaker 3: study doesn't really pay a lot. And so when I
Speaker 3: finished my honors, I was working. I had started working
Speaker 3: for a research center who I did my honors with.
Speaker 3: And then when I finished my honors, I took some
Speaker 3: time off to take care of myself and do all
Speaker 3: the things, and then I worked full time at the
Speaker 3: research center for eighty months, and then before I started
Speaker 3: doing the PhD. So yeah, it's over time. I just
Speaker 3: you know, it's just having faith at what you're doing.
Speaker 3: I think when you're in alignment with your values, and
Speaker 3: I know you talk about this a lot, but I
Speaker 3: truly believe it. When you're in alignment with your values,
Speaker 3: it's almost like.
Speaker 2: I had no idea.
Speaker 3: What was coming next, but I had faith that I
Speaker 3: was doing the right thing because it felt good and
Speaker 3: it was in alignment with what I wanted in life.
Speaker 2: And it was almost like the red carpet.
Speaker 3: Just kept rolling out in front of me, and I
Speaker 3: just kept taking a step. I had no idea where
Speaker 3: it was going, but it was moving me forward. So yeah,
Speaker 3: and so now you know.
Speaker 1: What, do you know what this reminds me. I've had
Speaker 1: this conversation with Melissa and a few others. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I've ever mentioned it in seventeen hundred and
Speaker 1: two episodes, but it's like, I always think, what about if,
Speaker 1: like that really fucking person who's awesome at that thing,
Speaker 1: Like let's say Serena Williams had never picked up a
Speaker 1: tennis racket. Yeah, Let's say she grew up in a
Speaker 1: different place and her dad wasn't interested in tennis. Let's
Speaker 1: say her dad drove trucks or a dad was a
Speaker 1: lawyer or whatever, and she went to school and but
Speaker 1: that same woman or that same girl at that stage,
Speaker 1: with the same potential and the same genetics in a
Speaker 1: different context, with different interactions and resources, And I feel
Speaker 1: like it's like somebody handed you your tennis racket at
Speaker 1: forty three.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was very much like that. And I think,
Speaker 3: you know, I was very fortunate when I started working
Speaker 3: at the research center. My boss there is just a
Speaker 3: phenomenal woman who and it's you know, it's academia can
Speaker 3: be very difficult where it's a lot of academics, bless them,
Speaker 3: have the point of view that they did it tough
Speaker 3: and they'refore sociod.
Speaker 2: You right, and it's ed it.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not that it's rare, but when you
Speaker 3: get when you come across an academic who is willing
Speaker 3: to take you under their wing and mentor are you,
Speaker 3: it's a gift, like it really is. And I've been
Speaker 3: really fortunate in the center that I work for. It's
Speaker 3: they're very supportive of helping you develop skills and grow
Speaker 3: into the space. So it was almost like they saw
Speaker 3: my potential and then showed it to me. Yeah, because
Speaker 3: I had no idea that what I had no idea
Speaker 3: what I was capable of until they put some things
Speaker 3: in front of me and I went, oh, I can
Speaker 3: do this. Yeah, so I was yes, literally was handed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. It is funny that you think about
Speaker 1: what what dormant potential do people have, Like what do
Speaker 1: we like imagine I think about that for myself, even
Speaker 1: like I don't know, like who would I be if
Speaker 1: I had you know, let's say I was the same
Speaker 1: genetically the same, and I have the same brain and
Speaker 1: the same body and the same genetic potential and the
Speaker 1: same innate potential, creative, intellectual, academic, whatever, sporting, whatever. But
Speaker 1: I was just raised in a different place with different
Speaker 1: interactions and experiences, and I wonder what I would have
Speaker 1: done and who I would have become. Or imagine if
Speaker 1: you know, like imagine if you know somebody not you know,
Speaker 1: clearly I never would have been well probably not. But
Speaker 1: somebody had to give me a tennis racket when I
Speaker 1: was six and they went off, you go, and here's
Speaker 1: a coach, and here's a you don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: or if somebody you know, if my mum and dad
Speaker 1: were academics, I would have probably been groomed to be
Speaker 1: an academic. Or if you were raised in a you know,
Speaker 1: you were living on the beach and bloody Queensland, I
Speaker 1: might have grown up with a surfboard under my arm
Speaker 1: or you know, or not saying I have any athletic
Speaker 1: potential anyone, but you know, it's like you just don't know,
Speaker 1: and so much like you think about how much of
Speaker 1: who you were at forty three, not that that was
Speaker 1: good or bad, but was essentially just a by product
Speaker 1: of life happening. It's not like you consciously, it's not
Speaker 1: like you said, you know, when I'm forty three, this
Speaker 1: is where I want to be. No, you woke up
Speaker 1: one day and yes, you'd made choices along the way,
Speaker 1: good and bad, and you know, but it's like, in
Speaker 1: many ways me included. You know, you get to a
Speaker 1: point where you're like, okay, so I'm thirty or I'm forty,
Speaker 1: or I'm fifty or and you know, I'm kind of
Speaker 1: to blame or not or you know, some of how
Speaker 1: I got here was about my choices and behaviors, but
Speaker 1: some of it it's just a byproduct of shit that
Speaker 1: happened to me around me and here I am. And
Speaker 1: then you think, like, even at sixty one, I think
Speaker 1: I still think what can I do? What can I learn?
Speaker 1: What can I get better at? How do I how
Speaker 1: do I Like yesterday I did a forty five minute
Speaker 1: stretching session. Right now, I know this sounds ridiculous, but
Speaker 1: so one of my goals in the next year or
Speaker 1: two is to be able to do the splits, because
Speaker 1: who the fuck you know at sixty one, who's got
Speaker 1: ship flexibility? And I go, I reckon, I can do that.
Speaker 1: I probably can't, but I reckon I can, you know. So,
Speaker 1: like I'm so fascinated just with and not just for
Speaker 1: the sake of doing something. But but you know, leaning
Speaker 1: into that curiosity around well, you know, like you, well,
Speaker 1: now you're doing a PhD and you're a you're a
Speaker 1: legit academic, and you're a researcher and you were a
Speaker 1: research assistant or I think you still do some of that. Brothers,
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, so if you had a mate, you know,
Speaker 1: on that day, if that lady didn't say, I reckon,
Speaker 1: you should do it, and I'm going to pay for
Speaker 1: that whatever it is, and Mama, maybe we wouldn't be
Speaker 1: having this chat.
Speaker 3: No, I'm and in fact, I dread to think where
Speaker 3: I would have ended up really like and I and
Speaker 3: I do think about that sometimes. You know, my kids
Speaker 3: probably would have ended up having to go and live
Speaker 3: with their dad, and I would have ended up living
Speaker 3: with my dad, had rent you know, living in his
Speaker 3: spare room.
Speaker 2: And I just.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the timing was it was it felt just in time. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, I realized my potential or just not even
Speaker 4: that I just went for it.
Speaker 2: Just in time. That's how I feel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we spoke yesterday, you and I about
Speaker 1: both kind of being accidental academics, and you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know if I told you this bit, but no,
Speaker 1: I don't think I did. But I told you the
Speaker 1: second bit about my PhD. But my under the story
Speaker 1: around my undergrad is so I used to have a
Speaker 1: trainer who worked for me, who was had a double
Speaker 1: degree in still has a double degree in physiotherapy and
Speaker 1: occupational therapy. Really smart, and you know, we talk about stuff.
Speaker 1: I would consult with her around certain things with clients
Speaker 1: because you know, not only was she a training but
Speaker 1: also in OT and a physio, which is very handy
Speaker 1: on stuff. And she was always saying, you know, you
Speaker 1: should do a degree, you should do excise science. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, ah, you know, I'm not that guy. And
Speaker 1: I'm you know, like, but it was really I was interested,
Speaker 1: but absolutely thought I was too stupid. I lacked confidence.
Speaker 1: I lacked I didn't know. I was like you if
Speaker 1: you had have said, I didn't know what an undergrad
Speaker 1: degree or postgrad degree, I didn't know. I didn't understand
Speaker 1: the language. I was like, So anyway, I didn't apply
Speaker 1: for UNI. She applied for me. She applied for me,
Speaker 1: and then I got place at UNI the first time.
Speaker 1: Like by the time she'd applied, she told me and
Speaker 1: I went, and then and then I was involved from them,
Speaker 1: but the initial application, all the stuff, like she just
Speaker 1: sent it in as though she was me, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: hope I don't take the degree back now, but no,
Speaker 1: I did the work. Yeah, but there's no way, like
Speaker 1: I would not have made that decision because I was
Speaker 1: too scared. I lacked confidence. I was probably had too
Speaker 1: much ironically insecurity and ego, you know where you're like
Speaker 1: insecure because what if I look stupid? Ego, what if
Speaker 1: I look stupid? What if I go and I can't
Speaker 1: do it? Because I already had a profile, and you know,
Speaker 1: I was kind of well known and I owned three gyms,
Speaker 1: and I was writing for the Herald's son and you know,
Speaker 1: in the tiny fish bowl of my life, I was
Speaker 1: someone in my mind and my mum's mind. But then
Speaker 1: you go, well, fuck, what if I go to university
Speaker 1: and I'm too dumb and I have to drop like
Speaker 1: all the shit. And then and then, as I said
Speaker 1: to you yesterday, for my you know, the post grad stuff,
Speaker 1: for I literally got asked to talk at Monash at
Speaker 1: the Neuroscience neuropsych Lab which is called Brain Park. I
Speaker 1: went and did a talk and spoke to the students
Speaker 1: and the faculty about my work and what I do
Speaker 1: and how I do it, which was hilarious because, as
Speaker 1: I said to you, I was the wildly the most
Speaker 1: least qualified person in the room talking to all the
Speaker 1: people with PhDs. And then after that, I had a
Speaker 1: coffee with one of the dudes who said, have you
Speaker 1: thought about doing a PhD? And I laughed, I'm like,
Speaker 1: have you met me? Do I seem like an academic?
Speaker 1: And it just went from there and it wasn't I mean,
Speaker 1: he wasn't urging, but he was like, oh, you could,
Speaker 1: and you know, like you the shit that you do,
Speaker 1: you could do something in the psyche space. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: it never dawned on me. But if he had not
Speaker 1: said I think you could do it, I think you
Speaker 1: might go okay at it, and I think you might
Speaker 1: like it, because on no level did I think that
Speaker 1: I was worthy, qualified, smart enough any of that stuff. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So it isn't it funny how like this kind of happens, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And I remember when I finished the third year of
Speaker 3: psych it was like, I don't think I don't have
Speaker 3: what it takes to do honest. That was what I
Speaker 3: was telling people, I'm like, I don't think I'll apply
Speaker 3: for honest, I don't think I have what it takes
Speaker 3: to do honors. And luckily, again it was you know,
Speaker 3: the people around me that said, yeah you can, you
Speaker 3: so can.
Speaker 2: What else you going to do?
Speaker 3: Like, what can you do with you know, there's not
Speaker 3: there is options for three year psych degree, but you
Speaker 3: can't become a psychologist with the three year degree.
Speaker 2: You can't. There's not a lot you can do without
Speaker 2: going a little bit further with the side. And I
Speaker 2: was working at the center and my boss was like, yeah, well,
Speaker 2: you know, we'll do you.
Speaker 3: So my bosses at the research Center were my psych
Speaker 3: honors supervisors and they are now my PhD supervisors. So
Speaker 3: they have carried me through my whole journey of academia.
Speaker 3: So I've been very very fortunate, but also taking up
Speaker 3: the opportunities when they present themselves, like seeing them and
Speaker 3: I have a thing, you know, encouragement is just borrowed courage.
Speaker 3: So if someone encourages me to do something, it's they're
Speaker 3: just lending me some courage and I'll take that and
Speaker 3: I'll you know, you just keep moving forward until you
Speaker 3: get your own momentum.
Speaker 2: That's what it's been like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and how do you I mean it's hard because
Speaker 1: you you know, your your view of the world, like
Speaker 1: my view of the world is subjective, and the way
Speaker 1: you see you as subjective. But how do you think
Speaker 1: so fifty one year old you versus forty three year
Speaker 1: old you, how do you see the world differently? How
Speaker 1: do you see you differently? Has your how is your
Speaker 1: you know, your cognitive emotional paradigm shifted.
Speaker 3: I have a lot more respect for myself, you know,
Speaker 3: and my capabilities, and my voice doesn't shake so much
Speaker 3: when I talk to people who I think are smarter
Speaker 3: than me.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's that kind of I kind of feel like I've
Speaker 2: earned my.
Speaker 3: Place in the world, not because I've done a degree,
Speaker 3: but because I did what.
Speaker 2: I didn't think I could do and I did it well.
Speaker 3: So it was that It's more the climbing of the
Speaker 3: mountain that has given me the confidence, not the certificate.
Speaker 3: It was it was doing it in spite of And
Speaker 3: I've earned my place in the world not because I
Speaker 3: have an education, but because I did the hard stuff
Speaker 3: and came out at the other end, and I now
Speaker 3: don't let people push me around anymore. Like I just
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, that doesn't work for me because I
Speaker 3: I have a more solid sense of self now after
Speaker 3: doing that, because it was hard and it was you know,
Speaker 3: and I was so parenting the whole way through and
Speaker 3: that was hard, and no one can take that away
Speaker 3: from me that I did that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't it funny how many people, you know, once
Speaker 1: they do something hard, whether or not it's you know,
Speaker 1: overcome cancer or build a business or brand or do
Speaker 1: a course or whatever. You know, even raise kids, which
Speaker 1: is maybe the hardest fucking job, you would know that.
Speaker 2: It's not like.
Speaker 1: I mean, but it's it's like so many people say
Speaker 1: a version of it's not about the summit. It's not
Speaker 1: about the top of the mountain. It's about the climb,
Speaker 1: and it's about you know, while getting a degree and
Speaker 1: an honors degree and eventually a PhD degree, which fucking congratulations,
Speaker 1: by the way, it's amazing, and all of that is great,
Speaker 1: but like I see a profound change in you, like
Speaker 1: profound the way that you talk. You're this is this
Speaker 1: is this is going to sound silly, right, Not that
Speaker 1: you ever seem dumb. You're always intelligent, but it's like
Speaker 1: you seem smarter, but you're not smarter. You're just more confident,
Speaker 1: but confident in a good way. Not not arrogant, not
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And I love that, And
Speaker 1: I love the fact that you've grown and learned and
Speaker 1: evolved and you've done some you know, like some stuff
Speaker 1: that is been really challenging and we don't have time
Speaker 1: to day, but you also went through a lot of
Speaker 1: trauma and abuse that maybe we'll come back and talk
Speaker 1: about one day. And you're not you know, you're not
Speaker 1: bitter and twisted and hateful and hurtful, and like you're
Speaker 1: philosophical and you've learned and grown and you know, you're
Speaker 1: kind and you're aware and you're empathetic, but you won't
Speaker 1: put up with bullshit, which is good. Like you're a
Speaker 1: little bit terrifying and a little bit gorgeous like my mum.
Speaker 1: Like my mum's gorgeous, but don't fuck with her. You know,
Speaker 1: she's five foot nothing of absolute fucking terror, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I love that. Well, so we've got to wine,
Speaker 1: but no pleasure. It's true, you know, it's like who
Speaker 1: you become is the key, you know, I think with
Speaker 1: all this, you think about people acquiring and doing and
Speaker 1: box sticking. Nothing wrong with any of that, but like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you've got this, you've earned that, you own that, you've
Speaker 1: got this title, you've got that body, you've got that car,
Speaker 1: you've got whatever. This many followers cool. But in the
Speaker 1: middle of all of those things that you've done and
Speaker 1: achieved in boxes, you like coop you become and how
Speaker 1: are you? Are you happy? Are you in field? Are
Speaker 1: you content? Do you sleep great? Are you you know?
Speaker 1: Are you mentally, emotionally, physically healthy? And you know, there
Speaker 1: are so many people that have done so much stuff
Speaker 1: which is good, and they've collected and owned and whatever,
Speaker 1: accumulated so much stuff, and in the middle of their stuff,
Speaker 1: they're fucking broken, you know, they're unhappy all feel and
Speaker 1: it's like, nothing wrong with building and accumulating, but we
Speaker 1: need to work on us as we do the building
Speaker 1: and accumulating, right.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and I think too because I say to
Speaker 3: my kids all the time, like I couldn't really I don't.
Speaker 2: Really care what my kids do with their lives.
Speaker 3: As long as they're as long as they're not shit humans, like,
Speaker 3: as long as they care about other people and that
Speaker 3: they're available for other people and that they're you know,
Speaker 3: as long.
Speaker 2: I want them to be well taken care of.
Speaker 3: And make sure they've got food on the table and
Speaker 3: the roof over their heads and all of that and
Speaker 3: successful in that way. But and I say to them
Speaker 3: all the time, your happiness through life is directly correlated
Speaker 3: with how well you relate to other people and your
Speaker 3: relationship with other people. And if you cannot get that right,
Speaker 3: then it doesn't matter what you own, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: If you can't have healthy relationships, friendships, interactions.
Speaker 2: With other human beings, then what's the point. What's the
Speaker 2: point being here? So, yeah, that was That's a big
Speaker 2: thing for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Hey, you're quite good at this. If people want,
Speaker 1: are you okay for people to follow you on Insta
Speaker 1: or wherever? Or send you an email if somebody I don't.
Speaker 3: Really have a presence, I don't really I mean apart
Speaker 3: from just my personal accounts.
Speaker 1: But so if somebody wanted to message you where, would
Speaker 1: like on Facebook or Insta or should send us an
Speaker 1: email and we'll forward it to you.
Speaker 2: But uh, yeah, on Insta, I'm Nick Underscore.
Speaker 1: Liddell, so and I see underscore L I double D
Speaker 1: E double L L yea, that can. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And because I'm just knickknack on Facebook, so that's not really.
Speaker 2: That probably Facebook.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Hey, I know you've done a couple, but
Speaker 1: this is your debut with us. That was great, that
Speaker 1: was so interesting, and I'm super proud of you and
Speaker 1: keep being amazing. And thanks for taking this call on
Speaker 1: very short notice.
Speaker 2: Thanks, thanks for inviting me. It's an honor.
Speaker 1: Thanks Nick, You're great. To see you next time. Yeah,