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Speaker 1: I'll get all you bloody champions. It's harps. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: another installment. They project, you know what for the seveneen

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Speaker 1: hundredth and sometime the other day was episode seven eight

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Speaker 1: hundred and it passed. It came and went, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't even acknowledge it, so I should be mad at me.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, Fuck it was seventeen hundred and something episodes.

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Speaker 1: We're still here? Did you know that? The I think

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Speaker 1: it's the average podcast. The average podcast only lasts something like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, not many three. It might be seven,

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Speaker 1: it might be three, but it's less than ten. So

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Speaker 1: how the fuck we got to seven eight hundred and something.

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Speaker 1: We've been around six years and people are actually still listening.

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Speaker 1: That's either a testament to what we're doing or an

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Speaker 1: indictment on you listeners. I'm not sure either way. Fucking

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Speaker 1: he fuck we're still here. I tell you someone who

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Speaker 1: has listened to a few episodes and been to a

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Speaker 1: few workshops of mine and hails from the Sunshine State

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Speaker 1: and has an interesting story and has finally agreed to

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Speaker 1: chat with me on the aforementioned program as Nicole Ladell,

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Speaker 1: who I call Nick. Hi, Nick, Hey, there, you go

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Speaker 1: oh fuck, I'm so good. I'm so good. It's Sunday,

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Speaker 1: it's five point thirty nine. The birds are singing, the

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Speaker 1: bees are buzzing. It's been a good day. It's to

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Speaker 1: be honest, it's been a day and a weekend with

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Speaker 1: a few challenges, but we won't go there. Nothing too terrible.

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Speaker 1: But now you were down in Melbourne yesterday you, like

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Speaker 1: I said, Sunshine State, and we caught up momentarily and

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Speaker 1: had a coffee in a chat and I I didn't

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Speaker 1: tell you this yesterday because I didn't know when we

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Speaker 1: might do it, and I like telling I like springing

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Speaker 1: it on people so they can't plan. But I thought,

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Speaker 1: as you were telling me your story that you would

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Speaker 1: be good to have a chat with and before we

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Speaker 1: dive in. So the reason that I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about this everyone is because my demographic is about seventy

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Speaker 1: percent female. Not sure why, so dudes come on lifting

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Speaker 1: you do too, are listening that, thank you, But if

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Speaker 1: you get a few of your dude mates, that'd be great.

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Speaker 1: But seventy percent female and a lot of women somewhere

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Speaker 1: in the ballpark of thirty five to sixty. And we know,

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Speaker 1: as I said to you, before we started recording. We

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Speaker 1: know that, you know, people listen to this show because

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Speaker 1: they want to learn something, or they want to be

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Speaker 1: a bit inspired, or they want to grow or evolve

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Speaker 1: or improve their situation or their mindset or their physiology, psychology,

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Speaker 1: sociology results in some way. And I'm very impressed with

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Speaker 1: you because when I met you at one of my workshops,

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Speaker 1: how long ago do you reckon? Our paths crossed?

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Speaker 2: When I'm going to say, it was around two thousand

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Speaker 2: and eight, right, So.

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Speaker 1: That is that is sixteen years ago, So you would

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Speaker 1: have been thirty five years old. And you don't mind

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Speaker 1: me saying that you're fifty one, because that's going to

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Speaker 1: come up. So you were thirty five, and what was

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Speaker 1: life like? What was happening when you were thirty five,

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Speaker 1: because you've had an interesting journey since, But what tell

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Speaker 1: us what thirty five looked like for you?

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Speaker 2: Thirty five looked like a.

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Speaker 3: I had.

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Speaker 2: I had lost a lot of weight at that point,

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Speaker 2: so I had followed that online program that we're talking

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Speaker 2: about yesterday and came across you during that and I

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Speaker 2: was married and my children were quite young, and I

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Speaker 2: had started doing triathon. I don't know if you remember that.

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Speaker 2: But I used to do triathon and yeah, I was married.

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Speaker 3: But it was falling apart.

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Speaker 1: I'll put it that way, Okay, okay, And so here

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Speaker 1: we are sixteen years later, and it's fair to say

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Speaker 1: that there's been a lot of peaks and troughs, and

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Speaker 1: not unlike the host of the You project, You're gain weight,

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Speaker 1: you lost weight, you got in shape, you got out

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Speaker 1: of shape. You're fucking in the zone, out of the zone, flying, dying, flying,

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Speaker 1: dying up down right. That's it's a typical kind of

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Speaker 1: experience for many people, not all people, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of people. So I just asked you before we went live,

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Speaker 1: and you've lost thirty five k's I saw you yesterday.

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Speaker 1: You look great. You're fifty one, you fit, you're healthy,

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Speaker 1: you look as good as I've ever seen you. Look.

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Speaker 1: How long have you been in the shape that you're

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Speaker 1: currently in, I.

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Speaker 2: Would say so, I've been on a bit of a

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Speaker 2: journey for the last two years. So I've lost thirty

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Speaker 2: five in the last two years. So I've probably been

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Speaker 2: maintained my current weight for about six months, but have

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Speaker 2: been solidly consistently training and eating healthy for over two years.

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Speaker 1: Great, and why do you think it's different this time?

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Speaker 1: And why do you think you won't go back? Like,

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Speaker 1: why do you think? I'm sure you think that and

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Speaker 1: I know it, Yeah, you know it. Okay, great. Why

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Speaker 1: do you know you're never going to go back?

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Speaker 2: I honestly because I've It's not just my body that

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Speaker 2: I've worked on. So you know, I've done the training,

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Speaker 2: I've lost the weight. But in the last ten or

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Speaker 2: you know, six to ten years, there's been a lot

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Speaker 2: of stuff that's happened where I've really excavated a lot

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Speaker 2: of my own internal stuff and you know, kind of

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Speaker 2: looked at patterns of behavior and how I got to

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Speaker 2: where I was and all that sort of thing. And

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Speaker 2: so now my kids are all adults, so I'm not

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Speaker 2: sole parenting. It's me.

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Speaker 3: It's like I am the priority.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, I love training, like I love living like this,

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Speaker 2: this is this is where I'm happy. So I'm just

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Speaker 2: not choosing to go back to where I wasn't happy.

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Speaker 1: So you said you had to excavate some internal stuff.

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Speaker 1: I like that, the internal excavation, right, Wow, what stuff?

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Speaker 1: Like what did you need to change or what did

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Speaker 1: you need to own up to or what did you

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Speaker 1: need to realize deal with what was that?

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Speaker 2: Just how I show up in the world, and like

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Speaker 2: I had to take responsibility for some of the situations

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Speaker 2: that I've been in. Yeah, I'm kind of just understand

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Speaker 2: just and the role that I've played in some of

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Speaker 2: the things that have happened in my life that have

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Speaker 2: you know, caused trauma and drama. So yeah, I just

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Speaker 2: it was really just taking responsibility and learning how to

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Speaker 2: set boundaries, I think was the big one. We're talking yesday.

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Speaker 2: I think a little bit about being discerning.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like tell me the relationship between I know

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Speaker 1: I'm interrupting, but it's relevant. So we're not you when

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Speaker 1: I asked you about excavating internal stuff, I was talking

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Speaker 1: about in relation to getting in shape. Then you started

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Speaker 1: talking about trauma. Yeah, so talk to me about getting

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Speaker 1: in shape physically and navigating food and exercise and weight loss.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, when we talk about weight loss,

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Speaker 1: we're not talking about, you know, from an esthetic point

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Speaker 1: of view or an ego point of view. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about health, wellness function. But then you so talk to

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Speaker 1: me a little bit about the correlation you scientists, between

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Speaker 1: the emotional stuff, the trauma stuff, the body stuff, and

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Speaker 1: the changing your life forever stuff.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think so I don't know without giving you

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Speaker 2: my entire life story, which I could do, but we

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Speaker 2: don't really have time for. And I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of women can relate to this. So our bodies are

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Speaker 2: very connected to our emotions. I truly believe that, and

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Speaker 2: to trauma as well. So when I went through some stuff,

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Speaker 2: you know, about ten years ago, I started really looking

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Speaker 2: into sematics, so I read you know, the Body Keeps

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Speaker 2: the Score and all of those trauma informed sort of books,

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Speaker 2: and I just I think just having the awareness of

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Speaker 2: I used to use weight to keep the world out,

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Speaker 2: so if I was overweight and big and not attractive,

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Speaker 2: that I didn't draw attention to myself and therefore no

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Speaker 2: one could hurt me.

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Speaker 1: So I've heard that quite a bit. And so for you,

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Speaker 1: was that a subconscious manifestation Like obviously didn't think, all right,

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Speaker 1: what I'm going to do is I'm going to put

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Speaker 1: on thirty k's I'm going to be So that's a

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Speaker 1: subconscious protection, protective mechanism.

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Speaker 2: Yes, very much so, because I am you know, I've

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Speaker 2: been I've been obese, I've been thin, I've been an athlete,

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Speaker 2: I've been all of those things, and the world interacts

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Speaker 2: with us differently. You know, I don't care how much

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Speaker 2: people say it doesn't matter, it does matter. The world

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Speaker 2: interacts with us differently depending on how we look. And

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Speaker 2: so I felt very vulnerable in the world. So being overweighted,

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Speaker 2: I became invisible and I think I subconsciously deliberately did that.

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Speaker 1: And so.

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Speaker 2: Ah, and then you know the shame that comes around

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Speaker 2: that as well, because health, looking after yourself and health

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Speaker 2: is also one of my values. It's quite a lot

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Speaker 2: living in alignment with my value. So the shame and

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Speaker 2: the guilt comes on top of that. And but then

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Speaker 2: so part of what I had to learn was being

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Speaker 2: discerning and setting boundaries and having self compassion and all

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Speaker 2: of those things that come along with dealing with trauma.

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Speaker 2: And so once I realized that I can actually set boundaries,

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Speaker 2: then I can then I'm now I'm comfortable being in

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Speaker 2: the world, not you know, not being one hundred kilos.

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Speaker 2: I don't need to be one hundred kilos to keep

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Speaker 2: people away.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of a two edged sword that, you know,

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Speaker 1: being bigger and heavier, and now I'm invisible, and I

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Speaker 1: don't get the same kind of attention that I didn't want,

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Speaker 1: and I'm less vulnerable now no one's looking at me.

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Speaker 1: And but it is a two edged sword because but

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Speaker 1: also I don't really want to look like this or

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Speaker 1: feel like this, or carry around all of this weight

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Speaker 1: or put my health at risk or yeah, yeah, what

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Speaker 1: I mean? So for you, what was? Maybe we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about as much or as little as you want. Have

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Speaker 1: you either way? Have you ever this your first podcast ever? No,

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Speaker 1: you've done it right, I've done a couple. You're doing

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Speaker 1: very well. Listen to me, giving you a score five stars.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about any potential trauma stuff maybe if you want,

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Speaker 1: but like on a kind of an emotional level in

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Speaker 1: terms of because I've said this, like, my first book

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Speaker 1: literally was about the psychology and the emotion of changing

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Speaker 1: a body, right, And that was really before I was

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Speaker 1: too clued up. But I realized early days when I

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Speaker 1: was working with people that you know, changing your body

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Speaker 1: and keeping it changed is not really that much about

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Speaker 1: your body. Like your body is the byproduct of sorting

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Speaker 1: out the ship. You need to sport out the emotional

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Speaker 1: and psychological and ritualistic and habitual underlying shit that just

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Speaker 1: happens to create a body that looks and functions like

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Speaker 1: X and y. You know. And so because your body

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Speaker 1: isn't making decisions, your body is just bearing the brunt

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Speaker 1: of your decisions, be they good or bad decisions. So

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Speaker 1: what was the emotional stuff that you needed to address?

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Speaker 2: Self compassion?

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Speaker 1: So can I what does that mean for you? For me?

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Speaker 2: I have lived most of my life being my biggest critic,

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Speaker 2: So I you know, I would I would be concerned

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Speaker 2: about other people judging me, but no one was judging

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Speaker 2: me more than I was judging myself. Yes, and so

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Speaker 2: I you know, and for choices that I'd made and

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Speaker 2: situations that I ended up in that caused me harm,

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Speaker 2: I blamed myself. And so self compassion was big on

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Speaker 2: the on the list of things that I had to

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Speaker 2: learn to do, like just to be able to say

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Speaker 2: that even good people make mistakes or you know, no

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Speaker 2: one is all good or all bad. And yeah, so

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Speaker 2: just kind of understanding me as if I was dealing

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Speaker 2: with myself as a friend, Like how would I talk

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Speaker 2: to my friend if my friend was going through the

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Speaker 2: stuff that I was going through. So that allowed me

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Speaker 2: to be softer with myself. Lots off there, but also

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Speaker 2: understanding that my body actually belongs to me, not the

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Speaker 2: world and not a partner or not any man down

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Speaker 2: the street, or you know, like my body one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent belongs to me.

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Speaker 3: Now I actually really believe that.

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Speaker 2: Now for the first time, at fifty one, that it's

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Speaker 2: mine to do with what I want to do.

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Speaker 1: You know. Tell me just like like on an intellectual level,

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Speaker 1: you always knew that. Like if I said to you

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Speaker 1: when you were thirty five, Nick, do you know that

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Speaker 1: your body is you'd go, yeah, of course, But tell

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Speaker 1: me about the divergence between intellectually understanding something but at

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Speaker 1: the same time not feeling it, Like what you say,

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Speaker 1: now you know your body's yours. What was the status before?

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Speaker 2: Well, the status before was the whole people pleasing thing,

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Speaker 2: you know that, which I know.

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Speaker 3: You've talked about a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the belief I think it comes down to

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Speaker 2: those worldviews and those real internal call beliefs. So when

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Speaker 2: I talk about excavating, it's like really getting through what

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Speaker 2: are those core beliefs that are driving the behaviors. So

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Speaker 2: I grew up, like a lot of women, and especially

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Speaker 2: my age, believing that our role was to please others

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Speaker 2: or to you know, I was talking to you yesterday

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Speaker 2: about going to UNI and my dad when I left school,

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Speaker 2: and my dad said, no, you'll get married and your

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Speaker 2: husband will look after you. Don't need to go to university.

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Speaker 2: Girls don't go to university. So I was the conditioning

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Speaker 2: that my whole role or reason for even existing was

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Speaker 2: to just please other people or two you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 1: So just so you wanted to go to UNI. And

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Speaker 1: dad went, no, you won't go to UNI. You'll marry

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Speaker 1: a bloke and he'll look after you.

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Speaker 2: Yep, that was his exact words to me, was you don't.

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Speaker 2: Girls don't go to university because I had I had

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Speaker 2: I was. I wanted to do either psychology or drama.

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Speaker 2: I had applied for both, and I had an audition

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Speaker 2: for the drama program. I can't remember what it was

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Speaker 2: now or even what UNI it was. And my dad said, no, wow, no, girls.

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Speaker 3: Don't go to university.

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Speaker 2: I'll get you a job in a bank, which he did.

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Speaker 2: He got me a job because he knew the bank manager.

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Speaker 2: I'll get you a job in a bank and then

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Speaker 2: you'll get married and your husband will look after you.

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Speaker 2: And that's I mean. I went around about it a

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Speaker 2: different way, but that's essentially what happened.

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Speaker 1: I didn't. Yeah, okay, so we'll jump around a little bit.

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Speaker 1: But one of the reasons I wanted I wanted to

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Speaker 1: chat to you was because at the astonishingly old age

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Speaker 1: of forty three, you went back or you didn't go

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Speaker 1: back to UNI. So did you do year twelve?

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Speaker 2: I did you twelve and I had done I think

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Speaker 2: it was maybe two years or a year before I

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Speaker 2: went to UNI. I did finish a diploma, so but

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Speaker 2: that was that was it. I did year twelve. I

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Speaker 2: think I finished Year twelve in I can't even tell

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Speaker 2: you what year it was.

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Speaker 1: So you finished year twelve at eighteen, and then you

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Speaker 1: started university at forty three, yes, so that's quarter of

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Speaker 1: a century. So all right, So one of I mean, firstly,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I definitely don't think everyone needs to

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Speaker 1: go to university. I think for some people university is

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Speaker 1: and not because they're not smart enough, just because I

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Speaker 1: don't think it suits them. Right. And in fact, if

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Speaker 1: you I'm glad I didn't go to university at eighteen

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Speaker 1: nine and twenty because for me at that stage it

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have suited me. I wouldn't have been very good

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Speaker 1: at it. I may not have even gone, but when

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Speaker 1: I did, when I did go to university for the

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Speaker 1: first time, which was when I was thirty six, I

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Speaker 1: was mentally, emotionally and practically in the right place. But

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Speaker 1: tell me about like I love the fact that, like

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Speaker 1: I said to you at the start, so many of

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Speaker 1: our listeners are you know, it's like you're almost the demographic.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's really broad. Of course, we have teenagers

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Speaker 1: who listen, and people in their seventies who listen, and

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Speaker 1: men and women and people from all around the world.

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Speaker 1: But I'm always encouraging people to learn and to be

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Speaker 1: curious and to you know, whether or not that's formal

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Speaker 1: earning education, formal education or informal or experiential or you

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Speaker 1: know whatever. But so, what precipitated the decision to go

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Speaker 1: back to UNI? What was it like? How did you go?

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Speaker 1: Were you great at it? Were you fucking terrified? What

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Speaker 1: was it like?

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Speaker 2: Well, the decision was made on a whim. I was.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't long. I remember you came up and we

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Speaker 2: caught up for coffee. You come up for something and

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Speaker 2: you caught up for coffee, and I was a little

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Speaker 2: bit of a mess at the time, because I was

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Speaker 2: coming out of an emotionally psychologically abusive relationship. Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: it'd already I'd already been divorced for about five years

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Speaker 2: at the time, and I was I was a bit lost.

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Speaker 2: So not long after that, I had a kind of

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Speaker 2: it's that proverbial rock bottom, I think where I had.

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Speaker 2: I kind of came to the conclusion that I was

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Speaker 2: never going to depend on a man again financially. I

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Speaker 2: needed to take care of myself. Was being financial for me.

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Speaker 2: Being financially dependent on somebody, which is what I was

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Speaker 2: raised to be, wasn't safe for me. So I needed

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Speaker 2: to create my own life. And then a friend of

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Speaker 2: mine had finished her social work degree and I jokingly

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Speaker 2: sort of said, I'd love to I wish I had

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Speaker 2: it gone to UNI or something, and she sort of said,

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Speaker 2: well why don't you? I said, I'm too old now,

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Speaker 2: and how would I How can I put food on

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Speaker 2: the table and go to use it is not possible,

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Speaker 2: And plus the degree I want to do is a

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Speaker 2: six year degree, and you know all of these reasons.

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Speaker 2: And then another friend of mine, I've mentioned it to

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Speaker 2: another friend of mine and she said, you should just

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Speaker 2: do it, And I said, well, I couldn't even afford

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Speaker 2: the I think it was at the time sixty nine

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Speaker 2: dollars que tac fee to apply and the semester was

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Speaker 2: starting in a week or two weeks.

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Speaker 1: To tell people what q TACH is, oh, qu tech.

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Speaker 2: Is the Queensland Tertiary. I can't remember what it stands for,

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Speaker 2: but it's it's the application center. So you you have

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Speaker 2: to apply through them and tell them what university and

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Speaker 2: program you want to do, so they're the ones that decide,

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Speaker 2: and so you have to pay a fee to apply.

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Speaker 2: And she this friend of mine just gave me her

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Speaker 2: credit card number and said do it now. So I

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Speaker 2: just jumped online and did it.

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Speaker 1: So at the time, you couldn't even afford that fee.

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Speaker 2: No, No, at the time, I had friends were buying

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Speaker 2: me groceries.

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Speaker 3: That's that's where I was at.

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Speaker 2: It was I could. I was barely paying the rent

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Speaker 2: and I had I was shopping at the food co

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Speaker 2: op some days this without sounding over dramatic, but some

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Speaker 2: days I didn't send the kids to school because I

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Speaker 2: didn't have any lunch for them.

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Speaker 3: So it was bad. It was pretty bad. It was

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Speaker 3: pretty bad.

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Speaker 2: So it was really just a it was kind of

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Speaker 2: like I have to do something, Like I had to

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Speaker 2: do something to change the trajectory of my life. And

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Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't know beyond each day what the

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Speaker 2: next week was going to look like. So I just

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Speaker 2: decided to go to university and suck it and see,

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Speaker 2: just show up every day and see where, like just

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Speaker 2: one foot in front of the other.

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Speaker 3: One semester one thirteen.

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Speaker 2: You know, semesters are a thirteen week block, and it

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Speaker 2: was like, just get through each thirteen week block and

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Speaker 2: you're moving closer to something. And I started getting so

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Speaker 2: I got that. I got a job at the university

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Speaker 2: pretty much straight away.

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Speaker 1: And hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. You

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Speaker 1: didn't tell us about your applied you got accepted.

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Speaker 2: I got accepted.

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Speaker 1: Well, tell us about one. What the fuck did you

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Speaker 1: study or what did you apply for? Tell us about

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Speaker 1: getting accepted. How did you feel when you go, fucking hell,

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Speaker 1: I'm a university student.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I did a psychology degree, which is what

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Speaker 2: I'd always wanted to do. And yeah, I got the

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Speaker 2: email to say I got in, and it was, you know,

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Speaker 2: a holy shit sort of moment. I went to O week.

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Speaker 2: I was telling you this yesterday, I went to open day.

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Speaker 3: And I was lost.

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Speaker 2: I had never stepped foot on a university campus before.

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Speaker 2: To me, university was always something that other people did like,

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Speaker 2: it was never I was told that it was never

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Speaker 2: for me, so I believed it was never for me.

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Speaker 2: I was not one of those people. Right. So I'm

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Speaker 2: on campus, I'm walking around. I didn't know a single soul.

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Speaker 2: I look obviously looked lost, and somebody said, you know,

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Speaker 2: do you need some help? Can I help you find

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Speaker 2: your way? And I said, I'm looking for this building?

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Speaker 2: And they said to me, are you undergrad or postgrad?

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Speaker 2: And I just looked and I went, I don't I

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Speaker 2: don't even know what that means.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what and she went undergrad.

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Speaker 2: If you don't know the difference, then you're undergrad. I went, okay,

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Speaker 2: And of course, now I know undergrad is like, you know,

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Speaker 2: primary school versus high school.

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Speaker 1: Could you just explain to our listeners who are basically

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Speaker 1: a version of what you like, what is maybe just

400
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Speaker 1: go through undergrad? You know, honors and a butt like,

401
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 1: what is the hierarchy? What does it mean? Just so

402
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Speaker 1: for people who have got their l plates on with

403
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Speaker 1: this language.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so an undergraduate degree is your first degree, right,

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00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 2: it's the it's the primary school, I guess you could say.

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Speaker 2: So undergrad is usually the first three to four years,

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Speaker 2: and then once you finish your once you finish your undergrad,

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Speaker 2: then you go to oh you could do honors, So

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Speaker 2: for the psych it's like three years undergrad psyche, and

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Speaker 2: then a fourth year of it's called an honor's year.

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Speaker 2: So that's a level up. And then you can go

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Speaker 2: to master's level, so a master's degree and then a

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Speaker 2: PhD or you know, a PhD is the highest level

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Speaker 2: of education, so undergrad is the beginning.

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Speaker 3: pH d is, Yeah, but not everywhere. You don't have

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Speaker 3: to do the whole.

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Speaker 1: And so some people might do for example, like an

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Speaker 1: undergrad degree. Generally they're called a bachelor's degree as well,

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Speaker 1: you know, so a bachelor Bachelor of accounting or like me,

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Speaker 1: my first degree was a Bachelor of Exercise Science, or

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Speaker 1: you could do a Bachelor of fucking you know and

422
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: pitten plaster scene. I don't know, but it's yeah, it

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00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: can be a start and finish in itself, or yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can build on it. Yeah, so you did your degree,

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Speaker 1: then what do you do after that? After your undergrad?

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Speaker 2: So then I did the Psychology Honors, which is a

427
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 2: twelvemonth degree. It's coursework as well as a research project.

428
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Speaker 2: So you have to do a research project.

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Speaker 1: And what was your research project on? It was.

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Speaker 2: Perceived impacts of stress on train driver performance.

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Speaker 1: Wow, hang on, let me perceived effects of stress on train.

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Speaker 2: Drive train driver performance? Yeah, so how do other systems?

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Speaker 2: Are the stakeholders in the rail industry as well as

434
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 2: train drivers, so how do they perceive acute would impact

435
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: a performance?

436
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 3: And then we compared those.

437
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 2: Perceptions across all the different jobs and stakeholders across the

438
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 2: rail system, just to see whether or not the other

439
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: people and the other people working in rail understood the

440
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 2: same the experiences of train drivers because they're the ones

441
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 2: making all the decisions.

442
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 3: So that was basically what it was about.

443
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: Can I just backtrack a tiny bit? That's that's interesting.

444
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: I just want I just want to know what the

445
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 1: first semester of day, one week, one semester one of

446
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: university life. For the girl who didn't know what an

447
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: undergrad degree was, it was.

448
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew. I went and sat in my first

449
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: lecture theater. I can still feel the feeling and I'd

450
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: never been in a university lecture theater before and they're big,

451
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 2: like they seek three four hundred people, right, and in

452
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 2: fact Monash is probably he's bigger than ours. But sat

453
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 2: there with one hundreds of students and the lecturer comes

454
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 2: in and I'm just like, wow, I'm here. This is

455
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: where I like this is. I knew that that's where

456
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: I needed to be. It was this deep innate knowing

457
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 2: that that was the right place for me. I had

458
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 2: no idea, and you know, I struggled the first semester.

459
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: I white knuckled it. I didn't understand. You know, they

460
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 2: took about mean and medium and mode and all that

461
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 2: sort of stuff. There was basic knowledge that I didn't have.

462
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 2: That there was assumed knowledge that I didn't have. So

463
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,239
Speaker 2: I struggled in the first semester of just trying to

464
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 2: even understand the basic stuff. So there were times where

465
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 2: I thought I don't belong here, Like there were times

466
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: where I thought I can't do this, and then I

467
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: was just like, well, just suck it and see just

468
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: see how you go. And then you know, you get

469
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 2: your first assignment back and you get with marks or

470
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: someone says you write really well, or you know, just

471
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 2: the little things along the way that just keep you going.

472
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: So it's like and it's like for me, going to

473
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: UNI was like going to a new country where you

474
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: know that everyone speaks English, but they also speak another

475
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,719
Speaker 1: language that you don't have. I'm like, oh, and now,

476
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: as you well know, now, although you you were better

477
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: prepared for me because Nichole's now doing her PhD. But

478
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: you know, that's a whole another level of language and

479
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: culture and understanding and and the way that that that

480
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: you know that that level of academia is yeah, that's

481
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: like going to Russia. Well that's like kind somewhere definitely

482
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: where they don't speak Craig. Like where I'm at, nobody

483
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: speaks Greig, which neither should they. But it's it's a

484
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:00,719
Speaker 1: new world, isn't it.

485
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, completely different world. And I did everything I could

486
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 2: to to make sure that I had the best chance

487
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: to do well. So I sought out all of the

488
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: academic skills workshops. I went to every everything I could

489
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 2: go to to help me build skills.

490
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: I went to.

491
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 2: I engaged in everything possible within the university, and that

492
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 2: was you know, later on down the track, when I

493
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: started working with new students and stuff, it was like

494
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 2: that was my That was my key piece of advice,

495
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: is just engaging everything possible to support yourself through the process.

496
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 2: Because I hadn't I really had no idea a better.

497
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: So I want to know about the dough. I want

498
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: to know about the dough, ray me, because before you started,

499
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: you had no money and you're worrying about how do

500
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: I put food on the table. Now you still don't

501
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: have a job, and now you're a student on top

502
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: of that, so like, how did you how did your

503
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: children not starve to death and die of neglect.

504
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 2: I applied for scholarships and worked really hard, so I

505
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: didn't go one semester where I Apart from the first semester,

506
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: every single semester after that I was awarded some kind

507
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: of scholarship, even if it was just one thousand dollars,

508
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 2: So anywhere from one thousand dollars to five thousand dollars.

509
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 2: Scholarships were available for students.

510
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 3: Some of them were.

511
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 2: Merit based, some of them were bursary based, you know,

512
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: demographic based, So that helped.

513
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 3: That helped a lot.

514
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 2: After the first six months, I started applying for jobs

515
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 2: at the university and I got a job, a casual

516
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 2: position in student Central, and then I became a student ambassador.

517
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 2: So I just I just ended up with a few

518
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,959
Speaker 2: different casual jobs around the university, which subsidized because our

519
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 2: study doesn't really pay a lot. And so when I

520
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: finished my honors, I was working. I had started working

521
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 2: for a research center who I did my honors with,

522
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 2: and then when I finished my honors, I took some

523
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 2: time off to take care of myself and do all

524
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 2: the things, and then I worked full time at the

525
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 2: research center for eighteen months, and then before I started

526
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: doing the PhD. So yeah, it's over time. I just

527
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 2: you know, it's just having faith at what you're doing.

528
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 3: I think.

529
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 2: When you're in alignment with your values, and I know

530
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: you talk about this a lot, but I truly believe it.

531
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 2: When you're in alignment with your values, it's almost like

532
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: I had no idea what was coming next, but I

533
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 2: had faith that I was doing the right thing because

534
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 2: it felt good and it was in alignment with what

535
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,239
Speaker 2: I wanted in life. And it was almost like the

536
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 2: red carpet just kept rolling out in front of me

537
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 2: and I just kept taking a step. I had no

538
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,959
Speaker 2: idea where it was going, but it was moving me forward.

539
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, and so.

540
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: Now, you know what, do you know what this reminds me.

541
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: I've had this conversation with Melissa and a few others.

542
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've ever mentioned it in seventeen

543
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: hundred and two episodes, but it's like, I always think,

544
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: what about if, like that really fucking person who's awesome

545
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: at that thing, Like let's say Serena Williams had never

546
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: picked up a tennis racket. Yeah, Let's say she grew

547
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: up in a different place and her dad wasn't interested

548
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: in tennis. Let's say her dad drove trucks or a

549
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: dad was a lawyer or whatever, and she went to school.

550
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: And but that same woman or that same girl at

551
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: that stage, with the same potential and the same genetics

552
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: in a different context, with different interactions and resources, And

553
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: I feel like it's like somebody handed you your tennis

554
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: racket at forty three.

555
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very much like that. And I think,

556
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 2: you know, I was very fortunate when I started working

557
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 2: at the research center. My boss there is just a

558
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 2: phenomenal woman who and it's you know, it's academia can

559
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 2: be very difficult where it's a lot of academics, bless them,

560
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 2: have the point of view that they did it tough

561
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 2: and therefore sociold you right, and it's edit. You know,

562
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 2: it's not that it's rare, but when you get when

563
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 2: you come across an academic who is willing to take

564
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 2: you under their wing and mentor are you it's a gift,

565
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 2: like it really is. And I've been really fortunate in

566
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 2: the center that I work for. It's they're very supportive

567
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: of helping you develop skills and grow into the space.

568
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 2: So it was almost like they saw my potential and

569
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 2: then showed it to me. Yeah, because I had no

570
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: idea that what I had no idea what I was

571
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 2: capable of until they put some things in front of

572
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 2: me and I went, oh, I can do this. Yeah,

573
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 2: so I was yes, literally was handed.

574
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. It is funny that you think about

575
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: what what dormant potential do people have, Like what do

576
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: we like imagine I think about that for myself, even

577
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: like I don't know, like who would I be if

578
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 1: I had you know, let's say I was the same

579
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: genetically the same, and I have the same brain and

580
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: the same body and the same genetic potential and the

581
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: same innate potential, creative, intellectual, academic, whatever, sporting, whatever. But

582
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: I was just raised in a different place with different

583
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: interactions and experiences, and I wonder what I would have

584
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: done and who I would have become. Or imagine if

585
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: you know, like imagine if you know somebody not you know,

586
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: clearly I never would have been well probably not. But

587
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 1: somebody had to give me a tennis racket when I

588
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: was six and they went off, you go, and here's

589
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: a coach, and here's a you don't know, you know,

590
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: or if somebody, you know, if my mum and dad

591
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: were academics, I would have probably been groomed to be

592
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: an academic. Or if you were raised in a you know,

593
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 1: you were living on the beach and bloody Queensland, I

594
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 1: might have grown up with a surfboard under my arm

595
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: or you know, or not saying I have any athletic

596
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: potential anyone, but you know, it's like you just don't know,

597
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: and so much like you think about how much of

598
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: who you were at forty three, nothing that was good

599
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: or bad, but was essentially just a by product of

600
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: life happening. It's not like you consciously, it's not like

601
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: you said, you know, when I'm forty three, this is

602
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: where I want to be. No, you woke up one

603
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: day and yes, you'd made choices along the way, good

604
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,879
Speaker 1: and bad, and you know, but it's like, in many

605
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: ways me included. You know, you get to a point

606
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: where you're like, okay, so I'm thirty or I'm forty,

607
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: or I'm fifty or and you know, I'm kind of

608
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: to blame or not or you know, some of how

609
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: I got here was about my choices and behaviors, but

610
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: some of it it's just a byproduct of shit that

611
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: happened to men around me. And here I am. And

612
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 1: then you think, like, even at sixty one, I think

613
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: I still think what can I do? What can I learn?

614
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 1: What can I get better at? How do I how

615
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: do I? Like yesterday I did a forty five minute

616
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: stretching session. Right now, I know this sounds ridiculous, but

617
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: so one of my goals in the next year or

618
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: two is to be able to do the splits, because

619
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 1: who the fuck you know at sixty one, who's got

620
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: ship flexibility? And I go, I reckon, I can do that.

621
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: I probably can't, but I reckon I can, you know. So,

622
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: like I'm so fascinated just with and not just for

623
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: the sake of doing something. But but you know, leaning

624
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: into that curiosity around well, you know, like you well,

625
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: now you're doing a PhD and you're an act, you're

626
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: a legit academic, and you're a researcher and you were

627
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: a research assistant or I think you still do some

628
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: of that. Brothers, It's like, oh, so if you had

629
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: a mate, you know, on that day, if that lady

630
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: didn't say, I reckon, you should do it and I'm

631
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 1: going to pay for that whatever it is, and Bama,

632
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 1: maybe we wouldn't be having this chat. No.

633
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 2: And in fact, I dread to think where I would

634
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 2: have ended up really like and I and I do

635
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 2: think about that sometimes.

636
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 3: You know, my kids probably.

637
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 2: Would have ended up having to go and live with

638
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 2: their dad, and I would have ended up living with

639
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 2: my dad, had rent you know, living in his spare room.

640
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 3: And I just.

641
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, the timing was it was it felt just in time.

642
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.

643
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 2: I realized my potential or just not even that I

644
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 2: just went for it.

645
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 3: Just in time. That's how I feel.

646
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we spoke yesterday, you and I about

647
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: both kind of being accidental academics. And you know, I

648
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: don't know if I told you this bit, but no,

649
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: I don't think I did. But I told you the

650
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: second bit about my PhD. But my under the story

651
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: around my undergrad is so I used to have a

652
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: trainer who worked for me, who was had a double

653
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 1: degree in still has a double degree in physiotherapy and

654
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: occupational therapy. Really smart, and you know, we used to

655
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: talk about stuff. I would consult with her around certain

656
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: things with clients because you know, not only was she

657
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 1: a training but also on OT and a physio, which

658
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 1: is very handy on stuff. And she was always saying,

659
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 1: you know, you should do a degree, you should do

660
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: excise science. And I'm like, ah, you know, I'm not

661
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: that guy. And I'm you know, like, but it was

662
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: really I was interested, but absolutely thought I was too stupid.

663
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: I lacked confidence. I lacked I didn't know. I was

664
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 1: like you if you had have said, I didn't know

665
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: what an undergrad degree or postgrad degree, I didn't know.

666
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: I didn't understand the language. I was like, So anyway,

667
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: I didn't apply for UNI. She applied for me. She

668
00:40:55,960 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: applied for me, and then I got place at UNI

669
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: first time. Like by the time she'd applied, she told

670
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 1: me and I went and then and then I was

671
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 1: involved from them, but the initial application all the stuff,

672
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 1: like she just sent it in as though she was me. Yeah,

673
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: I hope that I don't take the degree back now, but no,

674
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: I did the work. Yeah, but there's no way, like

675
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: I would not have made that decision because I was

676
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 1: too scared. I lacked confidence. I was probably had too

677
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: much ironically insecurity and ego, you know where you're like

678
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: insecure because what if I look stupid? Ego, what if

679
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: I look stupid? What if I go and I can't

680
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: do it? Because I already had a profile, and you know,

681
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: I was kind of well known and I owned three gyms,

682
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: and I was writing for the Herald's son and you know,

683
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 1: in the tiny fish bowl of my life, I was

684
00:41:55,440 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 1: someone in my mind and my mum's mind. But then

685
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: you go, well, fuck, what if I go to university

686
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: and I'm too dumb and I have to drop like

687
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 1: all the shit. And then and then, as I said

688
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,800
Speaker 1: to you yesterday, for my you know, the post grad stuff,

689
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: for I literally got asked to talk at Monash at

690
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: the Neuroscience neuropsych Lab which is called Brain Park. I

691
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: went and did a talk and spoke to the students

692
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: and the faculty about my work and what I do

693
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: and how I do it, which was hilarious because, as

694
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: I said to you, I was the wildly the most

695
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: least qualified person in the room talking to all the

696
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: people with PhDs. And then after that, I had a

697
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: coffee with one of the dudes who said, have you

698
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: thought about doing a PhD? And I laughed, I'm like,

699
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: have you met me? Do I seem like an academic?

700
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 1: And it just went from there. But it wasn't I mean,

701
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: he wasn't urging, but he was like, oh, you could,

702
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 1: and you know, like you the shit that you do,

703
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: you could do something in the psyche space. And I'm like,

704
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: it never dawned on me. But if he had not

705
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: said I think you could do it, I think you

706
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: might go okay at it, and I think you might

707
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: like it, because on no level did I think that

708
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: I was worthy, qualified, smart enough any of that stuff.

709
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

710
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, So isn't it funny how like this kind of happens? Right? Yeah?

711
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 2: And I remember when I finished the third year of

712
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 2: psych it was like, I don't think I don't have

713
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 2: what it takes to do honors. That was what I

714
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 2: was telling people like, I don't.

715
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 3: Think I'll apply for honors.

716
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 2: I don't think I have what it takes to do honors.

717
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 2: And luckily, again it was you know, the people around

718
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 2: me that said.

719
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,399
Speaker 3: Yeah you can, you so can.

720
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: What else are you going to do?

721
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 2: Like, what can you do with you know, there's not

722
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 2: there is options for three year psych degree, but you

723
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 2: can't become a psychologist with the three year degree. You can't.

724
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 2: There's not a lot you can do without going a.

725
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 3: Little bit further with the side.

726
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: And I was.

727
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,439
Speaker 2: Working at the center and my boss was like, yeah, well,

728
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 2: you know, we'll do you. So my bosses at the

729
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 2: research center were my psych honors supervisors and they are

730
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 2: now my PhD supervisors. So they have carried me through

731
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 2: my whole journey of academia. So I've been very very fortunate,

732
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 2: but also taking up the opportunities when they present themselves,

733
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 2: like seeing them and I have a thing, you know,

734
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 2: encouragement is just borrowed courage. So if someone encourages me

735
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 2: to do something, it's they're just lending me some courage

736
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 2: and I'll take that and I'll you know, you just

737
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 2: keep moving forward until you get your own momentum.

738
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 3: That's what it's been like, yeah.

739
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: And how do you I mean, it's hard because you

740
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: your your view of the world, like my view of

741
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: the world is subjective, and the way you see you

742
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: as subjective. But how do you think so fifty one

743
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 1: year old you versus forty three year old you, how

744
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: do you see the world differently? How do you see

745
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: you differently? Has your how is your you know, your

746
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,240
Speaker 1: cognitive emotional paradigm shifted.

747
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: I have a lot more respect for myself, you know,

748
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 2: and my capabilities, and my voice doesn't shake so much

749
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 2: when I talk to people who I think are smarter

750
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 2: than me.

751
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: You know.

752
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 2: It's that kind of I kind of feel like I've

753
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 2: earned my place in the world, not because I've done

754
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: a degree, but because I did what I didn't think

755
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 2: I could do and I.

756
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 3: Did it well.

757
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 2: So it was that It's more the climbing of the

758
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:58,439
Speaker 2: mountain that has given me the confidence, not the certificate.

759
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 2: It was it was doing it in spite of And

760
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 2: I've earned my place in the world not because I

761
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 2: have an education, but because I did the hard stuff

762
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: and came out at the other end.

763
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: And I now.

764
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 2: Don't let people push me around anymore. Like I just

765
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, that doesn't work for me because I

766
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 2: have a more solid sense of self now after doing that,

767
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 2: because it was hard and it was you know, and

768
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 2: I was so parenting the whole way through, and that

769
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 2: was hard, and no one can take that away from

770
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 2: me that I did that.

771
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't it funny how many people, you know, once

772
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: they do something hard, whether or not it's you know,

773
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: overcome cancer or build a business or brand or do

774
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 1: a course or whatever. You know, even raise kids, which

775
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: is maybe the hardest fucking job, you would know that.

776
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: It's not like I mean, but it's it's like so

777
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: many people say a version of it's not about the summit.

778
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: It's not about the top of the mountain. It's about

779
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 1: the climb, and it's about you know, while getting a

780
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 1: degree and an honors degree and eventually a PhD degree,

781
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: which fucking congratulations, by the way, it's amazing, and all

782
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 1: of that is great, But like, I see a profound

783
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: change in you, like profound the way that you talk.

784
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: You're this is this is this is going to sound silly, right,

785
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: not that you ever seem dumb. You're always intelligent, but

786
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: it's like you seem smarter, but you're not smarter, you're

787
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: just more confident, but confident in a good way. Not

788
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: not arrogant, not you know what I mean? And I

789
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:51,760
Speaker 1: love that, and I love the fact that you've grown

790
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: and learned and evolved and you've done some you know,

791
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: like some stuff that is been really challenging and we

792
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: don't have time to day, but you also went through

793
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: a lot of trauma and abuse that maybe we'll come

794
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: back and talk about one day. And you're not you know,

795
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,439
Speaker 1: you're not bitter and twisted and hateful and hurtful, and

796
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: like you're philosophical and you've learned and grown and you

797
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: know you're kind and you're aware and you're empathetic, but

798
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: you won't put up with bullshit, which is good. Like

799
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: you're a little bit terrifying and a little bit gorgeous

800
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: like my mum. Like my mom's gorgeous, but don't fuck

801
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: with her. You know, she's five foot nothing of absolute

802
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 1: fucking terror, you know. Like I love that. Well, so

803
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: we've got to wine, but no pleasure. It's true, you know.

804
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 1: It's like who you become is the key, you know.

805
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: I think with all this, you think about people acquiring

806
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: and doing and box sticking nothing wrong with any of that,

807
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: but like, Okay, you've got this, you've earned that, you

808
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: own that, you've got this title, you've got that body,

809
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 1: you've got that car, you've got whatever. This many followers cool.

810
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: But in the middle of all of those things that

811
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 1: you've done and achieved in boxes, you like, coo of

812
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: you become and how are you? Are you happy? Are

813
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: you in field? Are you content? Do you sleep great?

814
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 1: Are you you know? Are you mentally, emotionally, physically healthy?

815
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: And you know, there are so many people that have

816
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: done so much stuff, which is good, and they've collected

817
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: and owned and whatever, accumulated so much stuff, and in

818
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: the middle of their stuff, they're fucking broken, you know,

819
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 1: they're unhappy all feel and it's like nothing wrong with

820
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: building and accumulating, but we need to work on us

821
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: as we do the building and accumulating. Right.

822
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and I think too because I say to

823
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: my kids all the time, like I couldn't really I

824
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 2: don't really care what my kids do with their lives

825
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 2: as long as they're as long as they're not shit humans, like,

826
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 2: as long as they care about other people and that

827
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 2: they're available for other people and that they're you know,

828
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 2: as long. I want them to be well taken care

829
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: of and make sure they've got food on the table

830
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 2: and the roof over their heads and all of that

831
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 2: and successful in that way. But and I say to

832
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 2: them all the time, your happiness through life is directly

833
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 2: correlated with how well you relate to other people and

834
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 2: your relationship with other people. And if you cannot get

835
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 2: that right, then it doesn't matter what you own, it

836
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. If you can't have healthy relationships, friendships, interactions

837
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 2: with other human beings, then what's the point.

838
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 3: What's the point being here?

839
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 2: So, yeah, that was That's a big thing for me.

840
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, Hey, you're quite good at this. If people want,

841
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: are you okay for people to follow you on Insta

842
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: or wherever? Or send you an email if somebody I don't.

843
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 2: Really have a presence, I don't really I mean apart

844
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 2: from just my personal accounts.

845
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: But so if somebody wanted to message you where, would

846
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: like on Facebook or Insta or should send us an

847
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,399
Speaker 1: email and we'll forward it to you.

848
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 3: But uh, yeah.

849
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:33,840
Speaker 2: I'm on Insta. I'm Nick Underscore Liddell.

850
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: So and I see underscore L I double d E.

851
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 3: Double L L Y.

852
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 2: Can Yeah. And because I'm just Nickknack on Facebook, so

853
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 2: that's not really.

854
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 3: That probably Facebook.

855
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Hey, I know you've done a couple, but

856
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: this is your debut with us. That was great, that

857
00:51:56,320 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 1: was so interesting, and I'm super proud of you and

858
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 1: keep being amazing. And thanks for taking this call on

859
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: very short notice.

860
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 2: Thanks, thanks for inviting me.

861
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:11,240
Speaker 3: It's an honor.

862
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: Thanks Nick, You're great. To see you next time. Yeah,