WEBVTT - Randomly attacked and violently strangled: Nina Funnell Pt.2 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:04.920 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:07.840 Detective sy a side of life the average person is 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.120 never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.240 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.160 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.439 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.800 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.479 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.680 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.400 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:48.440 Welcome back to part two of my chat with Nina Fanell, 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:52.159 who is an advocate for education and reform in regardless 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:56.600 to sexual assault and reform and prevention. And Nina, I'm 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.200 going to give up looking at my notes because that 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:02.960 was a fascinating in conversation we had in the first 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:07.119 part of Eye Catch Killers, and you made me look 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:10.240 at things a little bit differently in a simplistic way 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.520 of giving examples of how things can gave skew if 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:19.399 and ethical bystander behavior, and the important role there is 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.520 for all of us to make sure that we embrace that. 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.000 You're clearly passionate about the work that you do, your 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:30.120 advocacy for sexual assault victims, and all the issues that 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.720 relate to the culture that causes those type of things. 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:36.119 It's a personal story too for you when we sit 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:39.400 down here, because you are actually a victim of a violent, 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:44.080 violent sexual assault. And I know in speaking to you 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:48.040 that I checked with you because I think that's important 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:52.720 that you're comfortable to talk about it. I think it 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:56.280 might enlighten people into what drives you for the work 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:58.080 that you do and the importance of the work that 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.880 you do. Are you comfortable to talk about the situation 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:03.160 you found yourself in? Yeah? 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:09.080 Absolutely, And thank you for checking so kindly and seeking 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.040 my consent first. But yeah, definitely. I'm an open book, so. 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:16.560 Shoot, okay, And I think on that too, and what 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:19.679 we talked about in part one. If you've been a 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:23.760 victim of a sexual assault, there's so many other things 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.040 that traumatize you following it, and you need to have 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:29.519 control when people would come to me to report the 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:34.560 sexual assault I always gave them advice on these are 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:37.440 all the options. These are all the options. I think 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.320 you need to allow people to have that power of 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:45.200 control on their situation and it helps in that little bit. 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:47.720 Do you want to talk to us now then about 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:49.960 the incident that happened to you? How old were you 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:51.079 at the time? Yeah? 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.000 Sure, and sorry, just before we get to that, just 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:55.320 on that as well. What you've just said of I 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:59.240 think you know, sexual violence is a crime about power 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:03.320 and control, where your agency and your control and your 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:07.799 choices are removed from you. And that's why in any 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:12.800 process that follows, whether it's a legal process or a 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:19.240 medical process or a journalistic process, being given options and 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:25.080 being afforded choice an agency is healing because it reverses 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.200 that feeling of powerlessness. And so what you just said 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.560 then that's perfect of providing people with their options rather 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:35.600 than trying to control or steer what they should do 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.160 or ought to do or must do in that situation. 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:42.160 And for anyone out there, you know, if you ever 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:46.280 receive a disclosure of sexual violence, what that tells me 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:50.960 is firstly that whoever's chosen to disclose to you really 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:55.200 really respects you and your opinion, but also that you're 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:58.560 in a very powerful position to then help that person, 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.000 and the best way is by giving them them options 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:04.240 and choices and affirming what they decide is best for them. 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:07.960 And yeah, for me, this is obviously personal. I was 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:12.320 twenty three and as mentioned in the first half, I 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:17.880 was studying journalism, media and communications at UNI and I 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:21.320 decided to do my honors year in media. And it 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:28.039 was actually the day of my honors presentation afterwards, I 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.520 was traveling home. At the time, I was living with 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:39.479 my parents in Sydney's Lower North Shore, and I was 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:47.479 walking home down our street and it's, you know, a 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:51.960 place that I have walked every day since I was 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:57.400 very little place where I walk my dog, and I 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:02.320 had headphones, phones in and I was listening to music 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.279 and I can still remember the song I was listening to. 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:08.520 And I had a man who I'd never seen before. 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:13.400 I just the first thing that I that alerted me 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.680 to the fact that something was happening was I felt 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:22.120 this whack across my back and it was here a 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:27.440 man had come up from behind and grabbed me. And 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:29.400 the next thing I remember, he was standing in front 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.520 of me and he was holding a box cut of 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:36.800 blade with the blade extended, and he said, I'm going 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.560 to kill you. And then he made a fist and 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:43.000 he punched me in the face and I fell onto 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:48.120 the ground, and the next thing I remember after that 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.719 was he was on top of me, strangling me, and 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:58.359 he he again. I remember he repeated the words that 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:00.120 he was going to kill me, and I understood what 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.440 he was saying, that he was going to rape me, 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:09.120 and that he was going to use force and violence 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:17.560 if I resisted. And I lay there and he indecently 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:25.640 sexually assaulted me, and then I and my memory flashes 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:30.080 backwards and forwards in different bits. I still don't even 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:33.360 now I've had a lot of therapy, I still don't 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:37.760 have complete chronological recall of what happened exactly in which order, 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:43.360 which again I should say, is not unusual for PTSD, 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:47.960 but I do. I did at one point then get 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.440 a surge of adrenaline. And people talk about the fight 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:58.360 flight fight flight freeze response. There's also the foreign response. 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:04.080 I know now with the benefit of having some education 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:08.640 around it, that initially I was in a complete freeze 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:18.360 paralysis response, but halfway through the attack that suddenly switched 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:20.320 and it was like a light switch. It just went 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:26.560 like that, and I got this surge of adrenaline and 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.960 it clicked in for me what turned into a fight response, 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:35.800 and I began fighting and thrashing, and because he'd been 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:44.080 strangling me, my throat had been somewhat you know, I 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.760 couldn't breathe and it had been somewhat crushed. But I 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:51.080 tried to scream, and I tried to yell, I'll kill 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:54.400 you first, and I went for his eyes with my hands. 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.560 I remember it as a scream, but in reality it 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:05.000 was probably a horse or a very coarse attempt. And 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:10.560 what happened was when I started fighting, he then stopped 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:14.320 what he was doing. He and there was a moment 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:20.360 and where it was clear that he'd lost control, and 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:25.160 he then stood and fled. And the next thing I 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:29.760 remember after that is being in a standing position. I 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:34.720 don't remember climbing off my back. I just remember I 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.360 was suddenly standing and looking down at my hands, and 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:38.880 there were blood on my hand, there was blood on 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.440 my hats, and I remember I do remember having consciously 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:44.880 having a thought of I don't know if this is 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.800 my blood or his blood, because I'd fought, and so 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:52.400 I remember looking down at my body to see if 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:57.920 I was bleeding, because I was worried that because I'd 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:01.319 seen the box cut blad, I was worried I might 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:04.000 have been stabbed. And I had so much adrenaline, and 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:09.880 if you've ever had that kind of adrenaline, it's it 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.959 was so intense that I knew that if I had 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:17.280 been stabbed, I wasn't feeling it. So I checked my 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:19.960 body to see if I'd been stabbed, and I hadn't. 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.880 We found I discovered later it was just some defensive 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:32.000 scuffs that had caused blood. But and then I picked 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:38.920 up my phone and called the police, called Triple zero, 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:44.320 as I was then running home, and I remember saying, 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:46.320 you know, my name's Nina Fanel, I live it. Blah 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:52.480 blah blah blah blah. I've just been attacked. And they 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.040 took the details, and I remember at the time on 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.800 the phone thinking I need to be calm, I need 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.680 to be calm and try and give my address and 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:08.480 give the information. And the person who who was on 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:11.320 the phone to me took the information and then hung 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:15.440 up and I wasn't home yet, and I remember in 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:20.800 that moment, I have never felt so abandoned in my 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.560 life as I did in that moment, because that was 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:27.040 my one lifeline, and I didn't know whether he was 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.400 still in the area, whether he was going to attack 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:31.920 me again, whether he was I had that kind of 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:37.120 image in my head of you know, the horror movie, 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:41.120 whether the hand comes back and grabs the person. And 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:47.199 I called back and I said, you know, I repeated 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:49.439 the information and said I think I've been cut off 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:54.480 the phone, and they said, no, you weren't cut off. Yeah, yeah, 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:58.360 and you weren't cut off. No, that we're sending someone. 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:00.440 And I just remember thinking, I mean, I think now 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:02.920 there's much better training and they know you have to 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.920 stay on the line to someone until you get to safety. 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:11.040 But so I got home and because this was all 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:14.040 a few hundred meters from my front door that this happened, 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.439 and I remember getting my key out and my hand 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.520 was shaking so much. I couldn't couldn't hold the key 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.840 stable to get it into the door initially, but then 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:28.840 I got in and pretty shortly after the police arrived 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:36.280 and it was the weirdest It was the weirdest conversation 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:43.000 I think I've ever had because it was such a horrific, 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:47.400 shocking thing that had happened that I didn't know how to. 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.760 You know, the police arrived at my front door, and 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:56.880 my reaction was to kind of play host, like would 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:58.280 you like to come in? Would you like a cup 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.679 of tea? Like, because I was like, how does somebody 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:02.720 what do you do in this moment? How do you 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:03.240 make sense? 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:07.240 You know, we shouldn't be laughing, but I understand it's 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:11.480 because people like yourself haven't had situations like that occur, 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:15.480 and so your your behavior is understandable, weird but weird, 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:17.240 weird but understandable. 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:24.120 So they they took me back to the park straight 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:26.880 away where and looking back, I'm so glad that they 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:33.400 did that because I was still in such a heightened 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.240 fight stage. 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:36.560 I was. 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:38.800 I was ready to get the guy, like I wanted 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:40.280 to go back with them, and I thought they would 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:41.600 find him and getting there, like. 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:43.520 And I was go back and hunt him down. 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:45.280 Yeah, I wanted and I wanted to kill him like 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:50.800 I was. I was angry, And I'm glad that we 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.679 went back then when I was in that stage, because 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.480 I went back with guys and by then the dog 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.160 squad the dogs had there was a dog person there 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:01.640 and other people. There were other police cars there, and 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.360 I felt safe because there was all of this energy 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:08.720 and you know there, so I didn't feel afraid. And 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.440 I'm really glad that that happened before the next day 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:13.280 because I think it would have been I think it 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.800 made going back to that place in that park much 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:19.720 easier than it would have been had I avoided still 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.960 in the moment. Yeah, So we went back to the park. 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.920 They could see the signs of the scuffle. My necklace 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.400 had been ripped off, I'd dropped my university notes, you know, 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:32.079 I'd been drinking a bottle of soft drink that was 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.199 lying like you could see what had happened sort of thing. 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:42.720 And then they took me to the police station and 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:44.640 you know, for me to give a statement about what 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:49.920 had happened. And I remember, because this is going back 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.040 to two thousand and seven, so it's been a while now, 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.640 but one of the things that I had a very 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.680 good female sexual assault detective who came out that night 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:06.320 and she was great, but I remember them saying, would 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.640 you like a support person with you through this? And 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:14.520 at the time, my mum was in perth on business 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:18.480 and my dad was at home and he hadn't seen 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.280 me because of the way the layout of our house 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.200 is such that he was upstairs in his bedroom and 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.280 he hadn't heard me come in and hadn't heard me 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.400 bring the police in. We just I'd done that very 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:31.920 very quietly and then gone. And I'd made that decision 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:40.320 because I knew that if my dad was there and 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:43.480 he heard what had happened to me, he would want 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:47.000 to go out and probably kill the first person he 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.320 found that looked remotely like the person who had done 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.840 this to me. And I knew that if he was 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.640 sitting there having to hear what had happened, I would 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.600 probably self censor some of the more graphic detail to 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:04.720 protect and and shield his emotional response into And so 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:06.320 for that reason, I made the decision that I was 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:12.680 going to report alone, which I did, and then they 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.040 linked me in with the Sexual Assault Service after that, 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:20.640 and I remember the Sexual Assault Service. The counselor an 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:22.880 amazing woman. This was over at role not sure sexual 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.960 Assault Service, so I very much credit with kind of 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:30.840 piecing me back together in the aftermath. And the counselor 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.440 is an amazing woman called Susan Kendall, and she said 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:34.800 one of the first things that she said when I 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:36.920 came in, she said, I want to tell you that 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.600 this is not your fault. You're not to blame. And 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:43.480 my response to that was, of course, not my fucking fault. 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.240 What's wrong with you? I didn't say it was my fault, like, 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:50.040 is that what you think? And she stopped and she said, no, 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:54.080 I don't. But most people who walk through that doorframe 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:56.800 do think it's their fault, and that really kind of 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.240 it's always sat I've always remembered that moment because I 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.840 remember being very offended that she had even kind of 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.720 suggested that I might. Yeah, but then when she put 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.960 it in that context, and I realized, like, right, that's right, 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.040 Like people come through this door every day thinking that 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.800 this is their fault. And I think that, you know, 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:25.560 part of the reason why I, very very early on 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:30.280 in the process didn't feel blame, self blame or self 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.960 shame is probably because I grew up with a very 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:39.480 strong feminist understanding of the causes of these crimes and 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.720 that it's not a person's fault. But also, I think 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:43.760 the other thing is is that you know, if we 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.920 look at the statistics around sexual violence, most sexual violence 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.080 is not the stranger danger stuff like I experienced. It 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.400 is the family member, the friend, the boyfriend, the person known. 0:16:54.120 --> 0:17:01.280 And because my experience did fit that, and it's a cliche, 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.960 you know, the stranger danger thing, but it's because it 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:07.080 fit with that. I already had an available narrative or 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:14.560 mold or stereotype to place my assault as rapist, yeah, 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.120 and that this guy was a bad guy and that 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.840 this was not my fault. And of course it's never 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:27.399 the person's fault, but I I that night at the 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.800 police station. They took photographs of my injuries because I've 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.320 been punched and strangled and so on, and my hands 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:39.800 and everything, and they also took DNA swabs. And my 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:45.400 primary response after that was anger. And it's actually interesting 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:47.720 that we talked before about the NRL work that I've done, 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:53.879 and we used to ask the players to imagine a 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.520 female friend of theirs coming to them and revealing that 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:58.800 she'd been sexually assaulted, and we would ask the players 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:02.960 what feelings she'd be feeling, or if someone's been sexually sulted, 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.280 what might they feel, And some of their responses would 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:10.520 be things like a shamed, embarrassed, so on, And then 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:12.359 I would ask them and how would you feel if 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.639 you'd been sexually assaulted? And you can see them like 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:20.560 double in size, and they immediately go angry, angry, And 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.800 that was my reaction. I was angry. And it's interesting 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.720 that culturally, I think anger is often an emotion that 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:30.520 we reserve for men, and it's not often it's not 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:32.440 the most common reaction when you say, how do you 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.159 think a woman would feel who's been sexual assaulted? But 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:37.359 a lot of women do feel angry. They feel really 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:41.040 fucking pissed off that their rights have been violated in 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:42.920 this way. But of course, you know, and I should say, 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:44.920 there is no one normal way to feel following a 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:46.560 sexu assault. That was just my response. 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.760 Yeah, but it's the division between the male response and 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:54.360 the female I understand what you're saying. And yeah, it's interesting, 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.680 isn't it the group of blokes or shame and yeah, 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.520 like I'm a victim and their responses. 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:06.520 Anger and yeah, like you're And so where this had happened. 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.560 It was the street that I lived on at the time. 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:12.880 It was opposite a girl's high school. And I remember 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:18.639 also feeling very angry that, yes, he had attacked me 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.119 because I happened to be the person walking there at 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.680 that particular moment. But had it not been me, it 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:26.800 could have been any one of those girls, or one 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:28.639 of the teachers, or you know, it could have been 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:32.480 any woman. And so in that moment, I understood that 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.159 this was not just an attack on me. This is 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:38.920 an attack on all women and girls and their right 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:43.600 to feel safe. And so so I went public five 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:47.400 weeks after the assault. And part of that was because 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:52.399 they hadn't found the guy. And I knew, you know, 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:54.639 having studied journalism, I knew that if I put my 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:56.880 face and my name to my story it would help. 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:04.560 Had it attracted some media attention prior to you speaking out. 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:10.480 No, No, So the police were doing their investigation. They 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:16.760 had that I'd done the comfit, which. 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:21.320 You might want to explain that a comfit is you 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:25.520 would have sat down, don't provide the description of what 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:30.440 the person looked like. And then then are you talking 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.040 about being shown fatos as well or just a comfit? 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:35.640 First up? When it's done the artists. 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.520 Yeah, so they did the impression. They did the artist 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:38.480 impression first start. 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:44.440 Sometimes they all look the same look, sometimes they work, 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:48.280 sometimes they don't. But I've jake sometimes throughout my career. 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.080 How come this one looks like that one looks like 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:52.200 that one. Yeah, they all look the same. 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.560 So I'd done, I've done the comfit, they'd drawn the sketch, 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:57.520 and then they'd brought me in to go through the 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:02.840 through these big folders of photos. 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:04.240 Of fenders folds. 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:10.280 Yeah, and he wasn't in there, and I felt like 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:13.919 I would have recognized I got a good look at him, 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:16.879 so I felt like I would have recognized him. So 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.320 after five weeks, I. 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.239 You told me is something yesterday and I said, I 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:24.720 want to talk about it too, because I just think 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:28.240 that these type of subtle things need to be understood. 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:33.440 And you've said, full credit to the female sexual assault detective, 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:35.760 that was very good. But when you were being showing 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:41.840 the photos, there were two police probably detectives standing behind 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.280 you having a conversation. And what was the conversation, So. 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:48.119 The conversation that they were having, and you know, to 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:52.480 set the scene, this is an incredibly stressful you know, 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:57.239 my injuries had not healed at this point, and it 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:02.240 was an incredibly stressful I'm looking through these images and 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:05.399 quite scary to be looking at all these different offenders' 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:12.680 faces and the conversation was about girls and the problem 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:17.280 like the risky situations that women put themselves in, and 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:20.320 how women don't understand the risks, and it was. 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:26.200 It lacked sensitivity and awareness. 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:30.480 Yeah, and in that moment, and you know, this is 0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:36.879 something I've reflected on quite a lot. I was it 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:42.520 was so raw, it was so incredibly raw, and anything 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:50.600 other than calm, compassionate support was going to trigger feelings 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:56.359 of like that that they are victim blaming me. I 0:22:56.400 --> 0:23:00.640 don't think that was their intention. I think that they 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:05.080 were almost that they almost may have had a benevolent, 0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:08.720 paternalistic kind of approach to young women or these poor 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:10.440 young women they just don't understand the risks are putting 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:14.399 themselves in. But in that moment, what I heard was 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:17.240 them saying, this is your fault. Love, That's what I heard. 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:23.600 And so I think, you know, it's really important that 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:27.520 we do a lot of education and support for any 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:29.919 kind of person who's working in a frontline role who 0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:33.760 might be interfacing with sexual assault survivors because the damage. 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:37.040 You know, we know now that one of the the 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:39.520 number one thing that impacts on a person's capacity to 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:42.840 recover following a sexual assault is the attitudes that they 0:23:42.920 --> 0:23:46.960 hear on disclosure and if those attitudes are I believe you, 0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:51.520 this is you know, I believe you, this is serious. 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:53.720 What's happened is not your fault, and I am here 0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:56.320 to support you in whatever way that looks like for you. 0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:59.280 That can have a really profound impact on a person's 0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:03.240 capacity to other whereas comments like oh you know girl, 0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:07.000 you know, like whatever the comment is, if it deviates 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:10.280 from that, that can cause a person to shut down. 0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:13.679 And some people may not ever disclose again. 0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:20.400 Because the traumas happened. But then you've been re traumatized 0:24:20.400 --> 0:24:23.040 if it's not handled handled properly. 0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:24.879 Yeah, and I did you know, I did have There 0:24:24.920 --> 0:24:27.240 were people in my life at that point who did 0:24:27.280 --> 0:24:32.440 say unhelpful things like I had one one friend say, 0:24:32.880 --> 0:24:34.560 you have to admit it was pretty stupid of you 0:24:34.600 --> 0:24:37.920 to be walking home alone. There's no other way to 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:39.480 get it, you know, like that's how I get. 0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:42.119 Home, idiot, what were you thinking walking on the street. 0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:44.880 Yeah, and you know, lots of when my story did 0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:47.560 go public, there was a lot of you know, silly girl, 0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:50.320 she shouldn't have been wearing her headphones, that kind of stuff. 0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:55.560 The worst comment And again like, this was back in 0:24:55.560 --> 0:24:58.359 two thousand and seven, so very different in terms of 0:24:58.359 --> 0:25:02.359 social media. Facebook. I remember Facebook, I think was established 0:25:02.359 --> 0:25:08.720 that year and someone made the comment underneath an article 0:25:08.760 --> 0:25:11.280 about me that said, what can I still remember? It 0:25:11.640 --> 0:25:15.600 was what a conceited bitch for thinking she was worthy 0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:18.159 of being raped? The guy just probably gave her a 0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:21.359 good bashing, in which case, job well done. And I 0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:24.800 just like, now I look back and go, well, that's 0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:27.080 you know, that's why we turned comments off. That's why 0:25:27.119 --> 0:25:30.359