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Speaker 1: My name is Mike Boris and I've teamed up with Steak,

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Speaker 1: one of Australia's top investing platforms, to talk about going public.

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Speaker 1: IPOs are exciting milestones that unlock new capital, draw.

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Speaker 2: More attention, and open up opportunities.

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Speaker 1: But a lot happens before and after the trading bill rings,

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Speaker 1: and it's not all glamour. Join me in Canada conversations

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Speaker 1: with prominent business leaders as we reveal all the ups

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Speaker 1: and downs of getting a private company listed. Well, Davidson,

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Speaker 1: welcome to going public, mate, Thanks thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: coming in. I'm now you are the CEO of United

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Speaker 1: H two Limited or UHL. I love the fact you've

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Speaker 1: got H two Limited in there, but I'm going to

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Speaker 1: leave it to you to explain.

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Speaker 2: What H two means.

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Speaker 1: I know what it means, but because I'm a love

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Speaker 1: chemistry and physics. But what does United H two Limited

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Speaker 1: do just to kick us off?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so, UHL. We are effectively a portfolio business. So

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Speaker 3: we have twenty five businesses all in the space of hydrogen.

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Speaker 3: So we go out and actually build these businesses from

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Speaker 3: the ground up, right from the business plan. We go

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Speaker 3: and hunt out scientists, technologists and intellectual property, and then

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Speaker 3: we'll go and build the business around the IP. And

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Speaker 3: so we'll find always in that hydrogen space, we're trying

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Speaker 3: to find something unique that we can patent that we

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Speaker 3: can then go and produce hydrogen or anything in that

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Speaker 3: sort of hydrogen ecosystem.

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Speaker 2: So we're actually.

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Speaker 3: Building hydrogen cars, we've got hydrogen production facilities, we've got

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Speaker 3: a hydrogen sorry, an ammonia powered jet engine. So it's

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Speaker 3: right across the spectrum that we're building these businesses.

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Speaker 2: So it's sort of.

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Speaker 1: Like a bit of an aggregation though if grrect me

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Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, it's like you're pack man, you just

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Speaker 1: going around gobbling up as many of these things as

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Speaker 1: you possibly can.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but they're not established businesses.

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Speaker 3: So what doing is we're an incubator and an accelerator

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Speaker 3: and an investor, so we do all of that together.

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Speaker 3: And so they're early stage businesses that even be pre revenue.

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Speaker 3: So what we're doing is we're actually helping them on

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Speaker 3: that business development side. We'll go out and help them

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Speaker 3: sign a contract in the Middle East or over in

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Speaker 3: Europe so that they can actually start bringing in those

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Speaker 3: first revenues.

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Speaker 1: Right, So if I just obviously have had experience in

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Speaker 1: this in the past. So if I just go back

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Speaker 1: and talk to ask you about you know, twenty years ago.

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Speaker 1: To me, you're a relatively young man. I'm looking at

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Speaker 1: you fed compared to relatively well fitt is your best years.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I reckon anyway, you're in the primere life.

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Speaker 1: Have you had experience in doing this sort of stuff before?

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Speaker 1: In other words, what do you bring to UHL in

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Speaker 1: this regard given your model, your business model.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've had a long history of sort of building

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Speaker 3: and aggregating businesses. So originally did it back in business

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Speaker 3: called Nitro. We built up about five hundred staff, nine

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Speaker 3: offices around the world. And what was Nitro So it

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Speaker 3: was digital business but right across that sort of advertising spectrum,

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Speaker 3: bit of technology as well, so you know, sort of

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Speaker 3: really building digital businesses for clients.

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Speaker 2: And we got to five hundred staff. My job was

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Speaker 2: to fly over to London.

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Speaker 3: Buy the businesses, consolidate them together, fly into Dubai or

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Speaker 3: Moscow and start them from scratch. So I'm used to,

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Speaker 3: you know, that startup mode of just building a business

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Speaker 3: organically and then aggregating it together. We sold that to

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Speaker 3: a business called Sapient NASDK listed business. We did it

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Speaker 3: for all script so that was the key part of

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Speaker 3: that transaction that we effectively merged into them. So that.

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Speaker 1: Model of aggregation requires capital or or at least it

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Speaker 1: requires either cash capital or equity capital. So Nitro with

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Speaker 1: you and Nitro, you're going around the around the globe

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Speaker 1: making acquisitions and or investing in I don't want to

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Speaker 1: call them startuffs, smaller businesses that need capital, The need guidance,

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Speaker 1: they need access.

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Speaker 2: To infrastructure, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Where did you guys get your capital from to do

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Speaker 1: these things? Were subject to a whole lot of raisings.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how do you go about the process of

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Speaker 1: building the capital to reinvest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so originally in that business was founder led, so

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Speaker 3: he put in the original equity capital. But then as

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Speaker 3: we grew, we got debt into that business. So it

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Speaker 3: was all leveraged through debt facilities and then deferred payment

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Speaker 3: structures with all of the companies that we ended up guiing.

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Speaker 2: When you say deferred payments, it's a bit like.

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Speaker 1: Your vendor the person you bought from, brought from gets

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Speaker 1: paid based on milestones. So burnouts what they call earnouts.

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Speaker 1: So you might buy it. You might say, ooka, it's

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Speaker 1: a ten million dollar business, or make a bit more reasonable,

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Speaker 1: five million dollar business. We'll give you two and a

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Speaker 1: half million dollars with us stock today or shares in

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Speaker 1: our business or cash, and we'll give the other two

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Speaker 1: and a half subject to you reaching these milestones over

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Speaker 1: a period of time.

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Speaker 2: That's the model.

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Speaker 3: So if they hit those milestones, they effectively cash flow

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Speaker 3: fund about two thirds of the acquisition themselves, and we

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Speaker 3: would fund the upfront the cash.

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Speaker 1: They're funding your your acquisition or effectively. And what's interesting

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Speaker 1: about that is that you're sort of on one hand,

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Speaker 1: you've got them invested still invested in the business. So

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Speaker 1: it's in their interest to make sure that they get

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Speaker 1: this five minute all of valuation, because if they don't,

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Speaker 1: they don't get the two and a half minute on

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Speaker 1: an example I gave because is that because you find

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Speaker 1: if at that stage of investing in a business which

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Speaker 1: may not be having maybe not be making a profit,

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Speaker 1: but importantly monitor it might be making a loss. Is

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Speaker 1: the thesis behind that is that if you pay them

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Speaker 1: everything today, even if you don't pay five be paying

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Speaker 1: for they walk away and you lose all the IP

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Speaker 1: and you lose the drivers.

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Speaker 3: Correct, Yeah, and they have relationships that you want to maintain.

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Speaker 3: You want to transition over a three year window. But

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Speaker 3: most importantly, if you give someone ten fifteen million dollars,

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Speaker 3: they just lose. They lose their drive and motivation. So

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Speaker 3: it's right, you know, they start googling megayots. You know,

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Speaker 3: they start looking at how to spend that fifteen million dollars.

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Speaker 3: So the deferred payment structure keeps them focused on that

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Speaker 3: revenue target and they know that every dollar that they

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Speaker 3: make in profit they're getting a multiple of that. So

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Speaker 3: you know, their motivation is really accelerated in those later years.

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Speaker 3: So we would try and keep it for three four

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Speaker 3: years that you would have the earn out structure.

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Speaker 2: And in that process two things strike me.

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Speaker 1: The first thing is working at the period of time

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Speaker 1: of which you as the purchaser your company Nitro in

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Speaker 1: that example, as the purchase of the acquirer, and them

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Speaker 1: as the vendor the business that you're targeting. Two things

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Speaker 1: strike me. The first thing is the period of time

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Speaker 1: over which you decide to build is earnout into one year,

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Speaker 1: two years, three is five years, but probably before that

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Speaker 1: it's the valuation and it's not in the valuation of

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Speaker 1: their business, the enterprise value of their business, which is

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Speaker 1: difficult to do because they are in the growth stage,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of them even before that, they're in

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Speaker 1: the early stage, very early stages.

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Speaker 2: And then the.

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Speaker 1: Valuation of your business of nitro, because you're if you're

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Speaker 1: going to give them stock in particular pastock pack cash

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Speaker 1: or all stock, whatever the case may be, you're going

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Speaker 1: to be they're going to be comfortable with the evaluation

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Speaker 1: to give yourself.

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Speaker 2: Take me through how that process.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't works differently every time, I know, but just

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Speaker 1: sort of the general tenets of building.

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Speaker 2: That process up.

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Speaker 1: You know, like, let's say I get a business and

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at selling into nitro, and you know you

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Speaker 1: want to put you know, I think it's worth ten million.

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Speaker 1: You know, you think it's worth five million, but you're

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Speaker 1: going to give you your shares five million dollars with

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Speaker 1: the shares in your company.

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Speaker 2: What do you say to me, Yeah, So it's all

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Speaker 2: we lock in that early.

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Speaker 3: The first tranch is all based on five or six

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Speaker 3: times the profit that they're doing today divided by the

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Speaker 3: number of years, So twenty five percent of that they'll

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Speaker 3: get up front if they really believe in their forecast

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Speaker 3: and you know, their ability to drive that revenue up,

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Speaker 3: then they get it. At the back end, they're getting

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Speaker 3: five or six times the profit that they generate in

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Speaker 3: year two, three and four, And.

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Speaker 2: So that was what we would do.

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Speaker 3: You would say, okay, well great, if you've got a

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Speaker 3: really aggressive forecast, it's an eurnout, so you've got to

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Speaker 3: deliver against that. We would value them on what they

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Speaker 3: delivered the last twelve months, and they get that, they

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Speaker 3: get that valuation, and that was the key that you know,

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Speaker 3: you would lock them in. We would actually get a

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Speaker 3: lot of synergies out of buying these businesses, So revenue

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Speaker 3: synergies and cost synergies so for us are five times

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Speaker 3: multiple was small because we're doubling the profit by bringing

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Speaker 3: it on board to us, so you're actually paying two

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Speaker 3: and a half times their actual profit. So anything they

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Speaker 3: deliver is incremental to us. So it was really the

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Speaker 3: revenue synergies that we were able to get by moving

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Speaker 3: them onto our contracts were a lot more lucrative.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because you could the synerges.

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Speaker 1: You're talking about are things like CFOs and accounting departments

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Speaker 1: and I don't know collection departments if you're collecting money,

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Speaker 1: design departments if you're designing stuff. I mean, you can

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Speaker 1: make people build people's capacity in your current business to

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Speaker 1: take out of some of the capacity out there there is.

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Speaker 1: In other words, maybe reduce thement costs or help them

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Speaker 1: not have to take on new costs in the future.

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Speaker 1: What happens is they're not profitable though. Let's say it's

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Speaker 1: a gun business. They're growing so fast, but they're losing money.

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Speaker 1: What did you do in those We wouldn't buy those,

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Speaker 1: So that.

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Speaker 2: Was part of your mandate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we would only buy profitable growth businesses and in

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Speaker 3: segments that we wanted to grow into. So as digital

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Speaker 3: was really expanding, sort of getting big, big clients as

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Speaker 3: a result of bringing those on that we could then

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Speaker 3: take right across the spectrum of our other services. So

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Speaker 3: we were dealing with all global clients Mars Craft.

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Speaker 2: Volvo customers as customers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so those we would buy a business that had

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Speaker 3: Coca Cola as its customer doing one little service, we'd

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Speaker 3: bring it into the fold and we would offer five

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Speaker 3: other services back to the leverage it. So that's the

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Speaker 3: revenue synergies.

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Speaker 1: So that makes sense, and that's so I think what's

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Speaker 1: important there is if you're doing this, if you're going

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Speaker 1: down this process, you have to have a model that

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Speaker 1: you operator on, a financial model. It's a business model,

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Speaker 1: but it's also a financial model that works. You what

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Speaker 1: did you learn from all that that you've taken into

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Speaker 1: UHL United H two Limited. So what have you taken

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Speaker 1: into that in terms of that modeling.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Scale, so that everything everything is about sort of

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Speaker 3: getting scale into these businesses. So that's why we're effectively

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Speaker 3: providing centralized services to twenty five startups.

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Speaker 2: So have twenty five startups?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so twenty five portfolio businesses sitting underneath that we're

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Speaker 3: building or helping them grow, and so they can't afford

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Speaker 3: a CFO, a business development head, all of those bits

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Speaker 3: because they're a team of scientists. So we're centralizing all

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Speaker 3: of those services and providing all of those facilities into.

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Speaker 2: These growth businesses.

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Speaker 3: So that's what I mean by we can cross collaborate

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Speaker 3: across that whole ecosystem. So if we're doing a deal

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Speaker 3: with someone in the Middle East, for we have injectors

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Speaker 3: that go into trucks to reduce their fuel consumption and

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Speaker 3: also reduce their carbon emissions. We can be in there

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Speaker 3: selling to that company for trucks, but we can also

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Speaker 3: be selling another company does it for generators, and we

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Speaker 3: actually make hydrogen trucks.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot of cross.

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Speaker 3: Selling that we can do by having one central team

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Speaker 3: doing the business development and also handling a lot of

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Speaker 3: the corporate side, so we do all the capital raising

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Speaker 3: for these businesses have to have their executive team out

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Speaker 3: running around doing all of the capital raising. So that's

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Speaker 3: the main thing is centralization of services so that they

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Speaker 3: can get to scale.

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Speaker 1: So we're unpacking this and it's very interesting to me,

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Speaker 1: so I guess I want to get to the actual

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Speaker 1: thesis of.

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Speaker 2: UHL.

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Speaker 1: So UHL has twenty five individual businesses that it has

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Speaker 1: aggregated under UHL, and they're all at different stages. I yes,

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Speaker 1: and they're all in different parts of the industry that

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Speaker 1: all relate though, but they're all related to hydrogen energy.

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Speaker 2: Correct? Is that be right?

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Speaker 1: But they're not actually all scientists who are sitting there

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Speaker 1: trying to work out how do I get how do

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Speaker 1: I create hydrogen energy at the most efficient price. They're

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Speaker 1: doing different aspects, so you have sounds like you must

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Speaker 1: then mapped out how hydrogen will be delivered, how high

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Speaker 1: will be produced when it is used, when it is

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Speaker 1: most efficient.

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Speaker 2: You've mapped out.

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Speaker 1: All these twenty five industries, twenty five business inputs, all

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Speaker 1: the inputs these twenty five businesses are providing to the

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Speaker 1: hydrogen industry.

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Speaker 2: Will they be right? That's spot on, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And so we want to be a portfolio play right

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Speaker 3: across the industry so that investors can come in and

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Speaker 3: they're hedging their bets into an industry and a segment

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Speaker 3: that they don't know that much about. But we're going

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Speaker 3: right across the industry. So we actually have a refueling business,

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Speaker 3: we have a couple of hydrogen production businesses. We have

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Speaker 3: you know in mobility, we have heavy industry, those kind

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Speaker 3: of businesses right across the system or the ecosystem, and

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Speaker 3: even right into exploration. So we have businesses that can

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Speaker 3: look for gold hydrogen they call it in the ground,

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Speaker 3: so exploration. So we have very unique technology that is

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Speaker 3: one hundred ground sensors that measure how much hydrogen is

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Speaker 3: seeping up through the ground connected to satellite imagery. So

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Speaker 3: it's a very diverse portfolio. But at the moment they

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Speaker 3: can all cross collaborate. So if we have a client

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Speaker 3: in trucking. We have someone that can build a refueling

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Speaker 3: station for them. We have hydrogen production when we can

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Speaker 3: actually produce hydrogen and sell.

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Speaker 1: It to help me out it because it's not an

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Speaker 1: area I'm that familiar with hydrogen as a fuel. And

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Speaker 1: you mentioned you have ways that you can map out

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Speaker 1: hydrogen potential, hydrogen exploration areas or production areas through satellites.

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Speaker 1: But I can understand cold because I can see coal

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Speaker 1: and it comes out of the ground and all the

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Speaker 1: other and I sort of got a bit of a

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Speaker 1: sense of gas too, and oil I definitely can. I

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Speaker 1: can sort of vision it. Hydrogen I sort of not

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Speaker 1: that familiar with, So.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, where the hell is? It's very simple.

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Speaker 3: So if you think about water H two O, all

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Speaker 3: weather doing in a hydrogen production plant is they're separating

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Speaker 3: the H two from the O and you do that

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Speaker 3: through a membrane. But effectively, all you need is renewable

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Speaker 3: electricity to pass through that and it splits the H

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Speaker 3: two from the O, so there's no emissions, there's only oxygen,

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Speaker 3: and then the H two gets separated and becomes the

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Speaker 3: fuel and we store we store that. So it's a

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Speaker 3: very simple process. What's difficult is securing and getting access

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Speaker 3: to cost effective renewable energy. So a big electrolyzer needs

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Speaker 3: to be placed next door to a wind farm or

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Speaker 3: a solar farm or a hydro farm. That's the basic

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Speaker 3: that's green hydrogen. We have other ways of producing it,

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Speaker 3: right down to we have a what's called a waste

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Speaker 3: of hydrogen solution. So the non recyclable parts of plastic

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Speaker 3: bottles we can actually use as a feedstock into a

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Speaker 3: pyrolysis process, so heating heat eating up the plastic bottles,

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Speaker 3: and we can extract hydrogen from that system. So it

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Speaker 3: can it can even have another way of producing hydrogen,

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Speaker 3: but the most common will be green hydrogen from renewalb electricity.

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Speaker 1: Right, So let me just just dig down on a

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Speaker 1: little because I just understand that. So I get the

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Speaker 1: H two and you stripped two hydrogen atoms off the

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Speaker 1: oxygen atom, and you've got hydrogen, you've got oxygen, so

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Speaker 1: there's no waste, which is good, and you've got oxygen

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Speaker 1: which obviously goes back up in the atmosphere yues. I

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Speaker 1: don't know where it ends up, but maybe put that

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Speaker 1: in bottles too, because we did need oxygen as well.

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Speaker 1: But to do that you need a process of probably

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Speaker 1: sounds like you need alternative energy power to do that.

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Speaker 2: Let me to be silly.

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Speaker 1: If you just plugged it into the wall and you've

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Speaker 1: got your electricity out of the you know wherever it

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Speaker 1: comes from at the moment. So that's why you said

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Speaker 1: you like to locate these plants near an alternative source

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Speaker 1: of energy straight up, so you know, you put it

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Speaker 1: next to it. I don't know, wind farm or solo

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Speaker 1: energy farm or something along those lines.

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Speaker 2: That makes sense to me. But you need the water.

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Speaker 2: Where's the water coming from? So distill distilled water source,

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Speaker 2: so where's it come from? That?

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Speaker 3: So we will we will actually part of that production facility.

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Speaker 3: When you do it, you will actually get a water

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Speaker 3: purification system as part of it. So very similar to

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Speaker 3: like a decellization plant.

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Speaker 2: But here, if you.

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Speaker 3: Take the base water, you're just distilling. Distilling the water

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Speaker 3: as part of it, you're gonna.

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Speaker 1: A crap out because you don't want a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of lead or something with some other chemicals.

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Speaker 3: Otherwise, it's so when it goes through that membrane, otherwise

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Speaker 3: it clogs effectively clogs the membrane that you're using Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so you distilled it or have a process of distilling water,

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Speaker 3: but you're saying that, you know you do it on

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Speaker 3: the coast next next to somewhere on the west coast

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Speaker 3: of Australia when you're you're sucking the water out of

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Speaker 3: the ocean because and turning that into a distilled water,

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Speaker 3: or you're getting water out of a lake, or are

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Speaker 3: you harvesting it from the rains the water come from

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Speaker 3: the water, is you know you're using the normal source water,

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Speaker 3: you're just distilling like tap water, tap water, but you

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Speaker 3: pay for the tap water obviously.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's as tap water, okay, that comes out

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Speaker 1: of say war orgain, but dan arguments or any other source,

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Speaker 1: because if you're in Dubai, it's probably desaliinated water. And

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Speaker 1: then you've got this process that one of the one

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Speaker 1: of the business you've invested in, I guess as a

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Speaker 1: process of separating or cleaning, clearing the water out to

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Speaker 1: make sure it's distilled.

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Speaker 2: And then you've got some process.

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Speaker 1: Then there's another process, but perhaps you've invested in one

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Speaker 1: of these companies that remove the atoms from each other.

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Speaker 2: So you've got hydrogen and oxygen. Is that correct?

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Speaker 3: It's called a PEM. It goes through the membrane. As

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Speaker 3: it passes through that membrane, that's where it's split.

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Speaker 1: And then the hydrogen comes out as a gas PREI

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Speaker 1: And you've got something there that stores all the gas, right,

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Speaker 1: and then the gas.

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Speaker 2: Is the new source of fuel. Correct.

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Speaker 1: So the gas then can be put in a truck

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Speaker 1: tank or or are a presumed correct.

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Speaker 3: So we have a we have a business called H

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Speaker 3: two X where we build like a Ford Ranger pickup

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Speaker 3: truck and in the back we have hydrogen tanks.

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Speaker 2: Those tanks are made.

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Speaker 3: Effectively twice twice as thick as a bulletproof car. It

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Speaker 3: was even even the tanks that we've used have gone

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Speaker 3: through testing. We have actually fired a rocket launcher at

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Speaker 3: those tanks and it didn't didn't pierce. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: the real industrial strength tanks that only holds for example,

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Speaker 3: they would only hold six kilograms of hydrogen in those tanks.

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Speaker 3: But for example, a Toyota Mirror, which is like a

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Speaker 3: you know, the small hydrogen.

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Speaker 2: Car that Toyota has produced that.

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Speaker 3: Can run for six hundred kilometers on those six kilograms

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Speaker 3: of tanks.

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Speaker 1: And it is I mean, this is a little bit

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Speaker 1: outside of the tragic because the new industry in new science,

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Speaker 1: new tech, is it competitive, So that that Toyota car

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Speaker 1: that you just mentioned and the hydrogen and the tank,

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Speaker 1: et cetera.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned the cost of producing the car is it

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Speaker 2: is it? Are we at a stage yet that it's.

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Speaker 1: Competitive with say, you know, a petrol version of that

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Speaker 1: same car.

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Speaker 3: The fuel will get down to so the vehicles are

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Speaker 3: all made for heavy industry, you know, so at the

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Speaker 3: moment the vehicles are all trucks, mining equipment. That that

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Speaker 3: stuff is more expensive. And the reason that the federal

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Speaker 3: government just did the announcement because show yeah, yeah, So

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Speaker 3: they're putting eight billion dollars into into back. This is

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Speaker 3: the fuel of the future, and what they're doing is

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Speaker 3: getting that the economy of the fuel down to be on.

403
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Speaker 2: Par with diesel. Is the is the strategy.

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Speaker 3: So they're putting two dollars per kilogram to reduce that

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Speaker 3: price down.

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Speaker 2: America's done the same.

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Speaker 3: They have three dollars US per kilogram and Europe they

408
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Speaker 3: do for euros per kilogram. So everyone's trying to get

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Speaker 3: hydrogen pricing down on par. But obviously what happens is

410
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Speaker 3: with those subsidies you can get the price of hydrogen

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Speaker 3: down to eight dollars, for example, per kilogram. And so

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Speaker 3: that car that we're talking about that can run for

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Speaker 3: six hundred kilometers, that is more price effective than running

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Speaker 3: it on diesel, for example. So once we get to

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Speaker 3: that point, once that's twenty twenty seven, that the government

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Speaker 3: incentive kicks in hydrogen will be as cost effective.

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Speaker 2: By virtual of the subsidy.

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Speaker 1: And I guess the thesis behind that is though that

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Speaker 1: over time the production costs will get lower. They won't

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Speaker 1: businesses like yours and or whoever, the users of these

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Speaker 1: trucks and tractors and whatever is being used heavy machinery

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Speaker 1: who uses hydrogen, over time, they will become much more

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Speaker 1: efficient and many more of them, so production costs should drop,

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Speaker 1: and then the government won't need to make the subsidies

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Speaker 1: over time.

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Speaker 2: That is that the idea of it.

427
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Speaker 3: And it's purely just solar and wind. So the moment,

428
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Speaker 3: solar and wind at the moment is expensive to produce.

429
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Speaker 3: It's effectively the only input of substance that's going into

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Speaker 3: creating hydrogen is the renewable electricity that's expensive. So that's

431
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Speaker 3: the main input costs, and that's going to take time

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Speaker 3: to come down. It's purely it's because the level of

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Speaker 3: demand from every business wanting to buy a green electricity.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess they also want to get they've just

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Speaker 1: got to build economists scale. They've just got to get

436
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Speaker 1: enough of these alternative sources of power electricity to go

437
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Speaker 1: through the process process of electrolysism whatever I think it is,

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Speaker 1: electrolysis whatever.

439
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 2: The process is.

440
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: Called to turn your H two zero into H hydrogen

441
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Speaker 1: and oxygen. That's that's the idea of it. Is it

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Speaker 1: heavy on power? I mean, do you require a lot

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Speaker 1: of power to get this process done?

444
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it loses So it's only seventy five percent

445
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 3: of the electtricity source results in converting through So you're

446
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 3: losing twenty five percent in that process. Heavy use of electricity.

447
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 2: And what do you do with the oxygen?

448
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 3: By the way, so it does just admits into the

449
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 3: just goes in amosphere.

450
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 2: Well that's probably a good thing.

451
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: I mean, we need oxygen model it for you know,

452
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,400
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about hospitals or something. I thought

453
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: maybe perhaps perhaps the hospital it was getting bottle on you.

454
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 2: You were selling it off to hospitals.

455
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: So you're of now if I could just go back

456
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 1: to uhl's model, So could you just share with me

457
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 1: some of the examples of some of the technologies or

458
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:41,439
Speaker 1: services that you have aggregated under UHL so far of

459
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 1: the twenty five So there'll be some tech, there'll be

460
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: some services, I guess some service industries to that tech.

461
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 2: What are we talking about here in terms of hydrogen?

462
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the unique ones that are available today are

463
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 3: hydrogen injection systems that can go into a diesel engine tomorrow.

464
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 3: So if you've got a big truck company, you've got

465
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 3: thousands of trucks on the road, we've got a diesel

466
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 3: of so we've got a hydrogen injector that can go

467
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 3: on board and it costs six thousand.

468
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: Dollars you put on the back of the truck somewhere. Yeah,

469
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 1: it just it just carries water. It doesn't carry any hydrogen.

470
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,239
Speaker 3: It creates the hydrogen as you're driving and injects it

471
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 3: into the air inflow, and it reduces your fuel cost

472
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 3: by fifteen percent straight away. It reduces your CO two

473
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 3: emissions by twenty percent. So trucking company can save per truck.

474
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 3: They spend six five hundred dollars, they save forty thousand

475
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 3: dollars on fuel straight away per year, and then they're

476
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 3: reducing their CO two footprint instantly. So you know, if

477
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 3: you multiply that by a trucking company with thousands of trucks,

478
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 3: it's a huge petrol reduction and a massive CO two

479
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 3: reduction as well.

480
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 2: So we've got.

481
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 3: Solutions that we can put in today, so we can

482
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 3: get people starting into the hydrogen ecosystem.

483
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: Without a full conversion, without a.

484
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 3: Full conversion six and a half thousand dollars with half

485
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 3: a day installation by biomechanic.

486
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: So can just take me through then the entity that

487
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: you guys acquired, So just that process, so.

488
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what the name of the entity is.

489
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 2: But how did you find this in it?

490
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 1: Is this a scientist or an engineer has worked this

491
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: stuff out and they're sort of laboring at some universe

492
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: in the cent of engineering.

493
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 2: I mean, how do you find these people?

494
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 3: Do most of our businesses are you know, scientists or

495
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 3: engineers out of out of university. This one was an

496
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 3: ip that we've grabbed out of Asia and we've managed

497
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 3: to grab it by territory. So we sell that and

498
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 3: we'll sell that into Latin America. We'll sell that in

499
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 3: Australia and we'll even sell that in through Europe.

500
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: So you bought the license, yeah, we'll grab and we'll

501
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: get the exclusive territory for that particular ip. And how

502
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: do you how do you I don't know as you

503
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: were somebody else, but how did these things get pitched

504
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 1: to you?

505
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 2: Or do you go out hunting for them? A bit

506
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 2: of both?

507
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 3: So some people bring We got one yesterday where had

508
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 3: a gold hydrogen exploration team goldy. Gold is in the ground,

509
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 3: so the gold and white hydrogen is in the ground

510
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 3: when it's stores and they're trying to explore and.

511
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 2: Look for it.

512
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 3: So there's an ASX listed company called g h Y

513
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 3: and that's that's a good example of one tenement they

514
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 3: have in South Australia that they're drilling to find gold

515
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 3: hydrogen in the ground.

516
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: Gold sorry gold? What is gold hydrogen?

517
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 3: So it's just it's the term that they use either

518
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 3: white or gold when it's when it's not manufactured. Green

519
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 3: is when it's manufactured with renewable right white and gold

520
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 3: is when it's found naturally naturally existing hydrogen on its

521
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 3: own store in the ground the ground. So there might

522
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 3: be a big cabin or something of that of somewhere

523
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 3: in the ground with H two or hydrogen sitting in there,

524
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 3: just pure hydrogen correct and gold locked in under it's

525
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 3: just the name they call it is gold. It gets

526
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 3: locked in under the salt crusts or in particular. So

527
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 3: there's large stores in poland, large stores in Australia and

528
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 3: large doors.

529
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 2: In sort of Mid America.

530
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 3: They can sense where those are and they have to

531
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 3: use sensors to try and find.

532
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 2: Where's the best place to get a.

533
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 3: Tenement to try and do it. So big three, big

534
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 3: companies in the US are doing this. One in Australia,

535
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 3: so you know it's an emerging area. Is hydrogen exploration.

536
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: eCos and which is not dissimilar to have you see

537
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: explore for Ryan or and everything else I mean, and

538
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: or just natural gas for that matter. So you guys

539
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: have invested in uhl's invested in entity that actually has

540
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: technology around or sensor technology that does this.

541
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, Polish scientists created this unique sensor technology.

542
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 2: So because the gas is actually.

543
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,959
Speaker 3: Seeping up through the ground, they can detect it on

544
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 3: satellites and the one hundred sensors that we put on

545
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 3: the ground is a micro measuring it across the whole

546
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: tenement about where that store is and looks at the

547
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 3: feasibility of where should you drill to start looking for

548
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 3: that because it cost a million dollars to drill a

549
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 3: whole expensive hole, but it's a kilometer down obviously to

550
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 3: do and do the testing for hydrogen. It takes takes

551
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 3: months for them to do that testing.

552
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: And again, did these people pitched you or did you

553
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: guys you read a science manually magazine or an article

554
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: written somewhere and some some science magazine that you know,

555
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: how do you find these people?

556
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 3: It goes, yeah, so those are our So that's what

557
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 3: UHL does. We have a business development team and a

558
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 3: team that is hunting down new technology, and we approach

559
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 3: them and say, okay, great, you've got the technology. We'll

560
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 3: build a business around you, but let's have fifty percent

561
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 3: equity each. So we have fifty percent equity in that business.

562
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 3: And then on top of that, we'll go and hunt

563
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 3: down the mining tenements as well using the tech, and

564
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: we'll take a split of the future hydrogen that comes

565
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 3: out of the ground.

566
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 2: That's very lucrative. Obviously, that's pretty cool.

567
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: So your your approach to these organizations is look, you know,

568
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: you guys are scientists, you've got a pretty good tech,

569
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: subjects testing the tech, and our guys.

570
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: Having a look at it. We will fund you.

571
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: You put the tech in, we'll put the dollars in

572
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: or you you might be a split of dollars and

573
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: or equity in your business, and we'll take this to

574
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: market so to speak, and in your in the example

575
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: we just gave, well, actually in Australia, we'll find you

576
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: the tenements.

577
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: So we'll take your tech.

578
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: And because you can't just up with your tech sensor

579
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: just over someone's farm for example, you know you've got

580
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,719
Speaker 1: to go and get exploration license, just like you have

581
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: to do for coal and gold or anything other thing.

582
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 2: And only in South Australia at the moment.

583
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 3: So there's no framework outside of South Australia for when

584
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 3: you get to the next stage to develop hydrogen.

585
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: But South Australia is Australia to kick it off. Really,

586
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: that's mad, and that's why we focus Poland America South Australia.

587
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: So and Poland does have these gas pockets what do

588
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: you want to call hydrogen gas pockets existence.

589
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 3: There are about five times larger than Australia's huge, huge

590
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 3: underneath Europe.

591
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: And has this been commercialized anywhere yet in the.

592
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 3: World these gas pockets so to speak, No, still still

593
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 3: to be tested. So it's mixed with helium under there,

594
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 3: So they're looking at how do they split the hydrogen

595
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 3: and helium when they do pull it out of the

596
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 3: ground like that. But Bill Gates's business, Breakthrough Energy Ventures,

597
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 3: has invested quite heavily into one business over in the

598
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 3: US that just does this, and that's again because they

599
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 3: believe this could be a massive solution to you know,

600
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 3: the clean energy future is to find it, produce it

601
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 3: cheaply out of the ground.

602
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting about that the hydrogen and the helium

603
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: mixed together is that.

604
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: I don't want to be boring, but on the elementary table,

605
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: hydrogen helium are only one place apart. And you know,

606
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: one theory is that helium came from Homehydrogen hydroen been

607
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: one of the very first elements, atoms, elements and atoms

608
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: ever and because everything just sort of orbitomen is adding

609
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: electrons and protons and neutrons and some being stable something unstable.

610
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: But it's very interesting that as you you said them,

611
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: because I mean I don't want to get too much

612
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: of the weedze. But helium is quite a stable element.

613
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: It's quite a stable atom. But it doesn't surprise me

614
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: when you said that that helium and hydrogen are in

615
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: those let's call them caverns or pits, and that somehow

616
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: you have to try and split these two off as well.

617
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 2: So you know, this is your business. Sounds like it's

618
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 2: at the forefront of the whole hydrogen revolution.

619
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: That we are heading into. That's what it seems like

620
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: to me. But you're hitting on every element of it.

621
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: So you're hitting on all the services. So I would

622
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: say the I don't know the name of the business,

623
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: but the one which has the sensus from Poland and Alpha,

624
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: I would say that's more a service industry, and that

625
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: is servicing the tenements or exploration licenses in this case

626
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: in Poland or in South Astralia, servicing them providing sensors.

627
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: Whereas do you own another business, for example, that actually

628
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: is working out how to split the healingum and the hydrogen. No,

629
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: not at this stage, but if you had one, that's

630
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: your proper tech business, but proper science tech business into

631
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: the industry. Yeah, correct, And so your portfolio because you're

632
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: effectively what UHL is.

633
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 2: A it's a portfolio business.

634
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: It's a business that owns a portfolio of businesses that

635
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: are in a rising tide, that being in part of

636
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: the pun, but rising tide being rising tide of new

637
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: energy being hydrogen, which then sort of and I never

638
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: knew a lot as stuff before, but I'm so glad

639
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: to met you because you're making clear in my mind

640
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: that what this whole momentum is around hydrogen, which then

641
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: clicks into alternative sources of energy. In order to make

642
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: this happen, you need other sources of energy to make

643
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: this happen. Is can I actually this is the reason

644
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: you need, say wind.

645
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 2: Power or solar power, et cetera. Is that because of

646
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 2: the Is is that driven by the twenty thirty twenty

647
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 2: fifty promises? Or is that driven by cost?

648
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 3: So?

649
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: Is it more? Is it en or efficiency?

650
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: So what's driving that process of using circleed green power

651
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: to power your process to get hydrogen out of water?

652
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 2: Is that because is it remoteness? Is it.

653
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: Access or is it pricing costing? Or is it targets? Yes,

654
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: it's definitely targets.

655
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 3: So the twenty fifty or the twenty thirty and the

656
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 3: twenty fifty targets are driving it. It is a lot

657
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 3: easier so that you can make it out of coal,

658
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 3: You can make any electricity source can be used, and

659
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 3: obviously that is the cheapest, fastest way that you could

660
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 3: produce they call it either black or brown hydrogen. You

661
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 3: could produce that tomorrow, very very cheaply. Oh really absolutely, yeah,

662
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 3: I see. So that is it's just the cost of

663
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 3: the electricity. Obviously, if you sat at and you're using

664
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 3: coal fired power stations to provide that electricity, that's cheap.

665
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 2: Obviously.

666
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 3: You know, any of those incentives, any of the market,

667
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 3: any of the end customers don't want that product. They

668
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 3: want green hydrogen. So it's been driven definitely by the

669
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 3: global targets to reduce emissions. And you know that's the

670
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: whole purpose of having green hydrogen as the solution is

671
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 3: that needs to be regulated to ensure that that was

672
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 3: produced in a green hydrogen environment. And that's definitely one

673
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 3: of the hard things is looking at certification.

674
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 2: And I guess subsidies a little bit too.

675
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: I mean, is this the first time that the last

676
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: budget we just had, last federal budget we had made,

677
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: is that the first time we've seen subsidies allocated by

678
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 1: the government in a meaningful way, definitely, so particularly Australia.

679
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 3: But Australia is the last to come on board because

680
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 3: you know, we've traditionally been a critical mineral supplier and

681
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 3: they're looking to make sure that we stay to be

682
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 3: effectively a renewable energy superpower.

683
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 2: But this is the only way to get that renewable

684
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 2: energy and export it.

685
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 3: You know, we can export those critical minerals for batteries,

686
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 3: but we can store and actually have hydrogen in tanks

687
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 3: that we can ship over to others. So they're looking

688
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 3: for us to become a hydrogen superpower. All of those

689
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,919
Speaker 3: governments providing those subsidies is really just a validation to say,

690
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 3: right across all three America, all of Europe, and Australia

691
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 3: are now providing those subsidies. But it's a validation that

692
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,439
Speaker 3: they're saying hydrogen is that fuel of the future. They've

693
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 3: all done the research, they've made the choice, they know

694
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 3: that it will come in and that's why they're subsidizing it.

695
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: So does a subsidy One more question on the detail,

696
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: but does the subsidy go to to the hydrogen producer

697
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: or does it go to the renewable energy company that

698
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 1: produces the energy that allows you to produce the hydrogen.

699
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 3: The hydrogen producers. So we have to pay the renewable

700
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 3: energy for the cost of the input. So it's just

701
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 3: one of our costs of develop of input.

702
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: But it comes off your actual cost.

703
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: So if you're paying them a thousand bucks or something,

704
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,439
Speaker 1: you're going to get a subsidy against what you just paid.

705
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we once we produce rest, we have to

706
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 3: produce the kilogram of hydrogen. Right, Let's say it costs

707
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 3: us ten dollars and then we get two dollars back.

708
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:42,919
Speaker 2: Right, that makes sense.

709
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: So all this, all these acquisitions, all this roll up

710
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: that you've been doing, requires capital. You guys have been

711
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: you've obviously been raising capital. Have you any thoughts about

712
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: it going public?

713
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.

714
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 3: So we've got a really active investor base. So we

715
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 3: actually have about one hundred and ten sophisticated investors already

716
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 3: on our register.

717
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 2: So public company, yes, stage, yes.

718
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 3: We're public, unlisted so they have come to us, they've

719
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 3: hunted us down. So they're all passionate hydrogen supporters, but

720
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 3: they've got in at a very early stage and obviously,

721
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 3: you know, we continue to keep raising as our business

722
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 3: keeps growing, but they've got on board early. So as

723
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 3: part of our process, we're starting to look for bigger

724
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 3: pools of capital and so obviously our plan is to

725
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 3: list the business. We're planning to do that in the

726
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 3: next six months and to do that on the AX.

727
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: So you're looking at the ASEX, would you consider NYC

728
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: or NAZDAK, et cetera.

729
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've looked at them all obviously, sort of different

730
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 3: listing rules around size and scale. We just think, you know, one,

731
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 3: the Australian market is good. They're used to having energy

732
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 3: companies on there and supporting energy companies, so you know,

733
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 3: we see that, you know, a lot of that sort

734
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 3: of mining money moving away from mind looking for a

735
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 3: new home in clean energy, and so that's why we're

736
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 3: looking at the Australian Stock Exchange at the moment. And

737
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 3: then there are others others in Canada again, but they

738
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 3: have much smaller size and scale. NASDAQ obviously would be

739
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 3: the end game. Eventually, it's about seven times bigger than

740
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 3: the AX and it has the has the depth and liquidity,

741
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,439
Speaker 3: but you need to be you know, sort of double

742
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 3: the size that we are now. So it's a as

743
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 3: a requirement, yeah, yeah, because you know, to make it worthwhile,

744
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 3: you know, to make while worth the time and effort

745
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 3: of being listed over there, you need to have obviously

746
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 3: you know, a base out of out of there, but

747
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 3: it's the size you want to be larger to get

748
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 3: the time and attention of investors and what stage.

749
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: Are you at right now?

750
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: So, I mean that requires a number of people to

751
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 1: be co opted into your environment. You need investment bankers,

752
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: you need stock market people to support you.

753
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 2: You need lawyers. Unfortunately, you need lawyers.

754
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: Because you have to do anything ride you need probably

755
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: being accounting for our accounting for them least to run

756
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: on your financials, make sure all your modeling is right,

757
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, due diligence rooms, et cetera, et cetera.

758
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 2: What stage are you gos at now? Yeah, so we're

759
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 2: six months away.

760
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 3: So we've got all of the audited accounts, we've got

761
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 3: all the due diligence rooms. The bit we're at at

762
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 3: the moment is appointing the bankers. So we've got we're

763
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 3: actually doing a little differently. We've got one in America,

764
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 3: one in the UK, and we will appoint one in Australia.

765
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 2: To address markets over there.

766
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 3: Correct, Yes, so we want to be able to get

767
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 3: US or North American investors engaged.

768
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 2: There's a lot of support from the UK.

769
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 3: So we've appointed a firm in the US, another one

770
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,919
Speaker 3: shortly in the UK and in Australia. We're just going

771
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 3: through that stage of the four or five that we're

772
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 3: sort of shortlisting and going through. But ultimately we're looking

773
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:57,399
Speaker 3: for a broker and a banker that fits fits into

774
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 3: that right segment. So there's no point going on pointing

775
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,439
Speaker 3: a you know, a bulge bracket large who only deals

776
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 3: with ASX two hundred. We're dealing ones that really specialize

777
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 3: in the small cap space.

778
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the process requires that there are certain things

779
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 2: you just got to do. I mean, there's no choice

780
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 2: about it.

781
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: And really is about pointing external people to run those

782
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,399
Speaker 1: parts of your process to get listed or to get

783
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: accepted by the AX to list, you've got to have

784
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: people who are experienced in experience at delivering outcomes. But equally,

785
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: and I think what's really important point you just made

786
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: in terms of who you point, you've got to have

787
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 1: people who talk to your market of investors. People who

788
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: are keen on let's call it green energy for I

789
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: can say it, or green hydrogen probably more importantly, even

790
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: probably closer. So what how would you best describe the

791
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: person who potentially would be your investor? Are they mum

792
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: and dads or are they family officers or are they

793
00:40:59,520 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 1: in sto?

794
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 2: What are we looking at here? Yeah, mum and dads

795
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 2: and family.

796
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,959
Speaker 3: Offices is because we're a portfolio play into those where

797
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 3: people who believe in that sort of green energy transition occurring.

798
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 3: So it's people with an SMSF. It's the family office

799
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 3: that's looking at getting in and wanting a portfolio bet

800
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 3: right across that ecosystem. So that's our perfect customer. Once

801
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 3: you go up to the insto, they pretty much want

802
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 3: to focus down into the individual companies that we have.

803
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 3: So they would want to invest in the hydrogen production

804
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 3: plant business that we have, they would want to invest in,

805
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 3: you know, sort of the aviation business that we have

806
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 3: to focus on one team and one business, and.

807
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: They're probably a little bit more interested in dividends too

808
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: at the insta level, a little bit more interested in that,

809
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: whereas the other investage you mentioned are probably more more

810
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: prepared to go on the ride because they have they

811
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: have a view. I want to get it early. This

812
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: thing that's a rising tide. Just to sit back for

813
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: a little while and let it develop and let will

814
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: build his businesses up with his team. And then but

815
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: you would is the story. Listen, in five years time,

816
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 1: all these businesses will be killing it. We should be

817
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: making a lot of money, and then we'll pay some

818
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: dividends and is.

819
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 2: It sort of a stray?

820
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 3: So, I mean, our track record really stands at the moment.

821
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 3: So we've already built four businesses and sold them, and

822
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 3: we've already delivered a twelve times return to our investors

823
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 3: on the price on the businesses as they were in

824
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 3: this early stage. We've sold our stake as they get

825
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 3: to earning revenue, and so we've delivered twenty four million

826
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 3: dollars of dividends back twelve times.

827
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 2: And so that's the track record, and that's why you know,

828
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 2: we believe in this model that we have.

829
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 3: So Similarly, even after we list those twenty five businesses,

830
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 3: we won't hold them for eight years. Like you know,

831
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 3: a traditional funds management business they call closed closed end

832
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 3: funds management, they will hold all of those private equity

833
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 3: style assets eight years, and then they'll give the cash

834
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 3: back to investors. As we sell the stakes, we div

835
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 3: it in them back to investors straight away, so we

836
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 3: will be making those profits. So we want to keep

837
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 3: making those profits out of selling the equity stakes and

838
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 3: then divot.

839
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 2: Inding them back to investors.

840
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: So in other words, you're relying on your track record

841
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: to say, listen, I can we can find the business.

842
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: We're going to identify the entity the business wherever it

843
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: is in the world. We can then help commercialize it,

844
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,479
Speaker 1: and then we can sell it down the track because

845
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: that's our track's. Yeah, you might sell it percentage of

846
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: it to somebody else, which may just sort of effectively

847
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: joined venturing some other organization for that entities or that

848
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 1: business businesses.

849
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 2: Future, but the cash that you get could be shares too.

850
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: But the cash you get you then will either look

851
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: at distributing that or redeploying that into buying making something else.

852
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 2: It's a great model.

853
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 3: And even some of those businesses we will ipo them

854
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 3: stand alone. So we're working on some of those even

855
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 3: though they're early stage now. The exploration businesses, you know,

856
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 3: can ipo at quite early stages in for example, and

857
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 3: so we start working on that now, even when it's

858
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 3: pre revenue, because once they once they find hydrogen in

859
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 3: the ground, you know, you're talking billion billions of dollars

860
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 3: of revenues coming through if they find.

861
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 2: Wow, that's cool. Well, I look forward to Will seeing.

862
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: U H two Limited or UHL listed on the A

863
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: six stock has change, and I'm not going to follow it.

864
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: I'm going to actually follow it more close to that

865
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: because I'd like to be in one of your early investors.

866
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 2: So good luck.

867
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: We're talking six months away, so we're probably talking towards

868
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 1: the end of this year or early next year, towards

869
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 1: the end of this towards the ship.

870
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, great stuff. Will Davidson, thanks for much. Thanks

871
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 2: you h L. Nice to meet you. Thanks Mane same