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Speaker 1: I'll get a tat taps. Who else would bloody be?

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Speaker 1: It's the you project. It's Annabelle, it's me, it's us,

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Speaker 1: it's you. I hope you're good. It's three oh five

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Speaker 1: on a Tuesday as I sit down to chat with

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Speaker 1: my new bestie of a rock solid three minutes we've

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Speaker 1: been connecting, so, I mean, if we don't know each

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Speaker 1: other by now, we never will. Hi Annabelle, Hi, Greg?

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Speaker 1: How are you? I'm very good. You and I were

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Speaker 1: just talking off there. I'm going to throw you under

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Speaker 1: the bus straight away. Yeah, I'm not at all. I'm

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Speaker 1: not at all. You were saying that when you when

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Speaker 1: you were doing some corporate stuff like standing in front

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Speaker 1: of corporate groups, that you'd have a bit of performance anxiety.

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Speaker 1: Like just meeting you momentarily, that seems like you seem

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Speaker 1: like a very relaxed, kind of spontaneous, organic in the

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Speaker 1: moment person. What was it that? What was it that

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Speaker 1: freaked you out about standing in front of corporate audiences?

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Speaker 2: Ah, you know what, I think it's the story you

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Speaker 2: tell yourself when you're well. For me, the story I

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Speaker 2: was telling myself was that if I was being paid

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Speaker 2: to do a job right, that I was I worth

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Speaker 2: as much as I was being paid and so therefore,

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Speaker 2: and you lose sight of the fact that you're talking

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Speaker 2: to humans, you know. And I think what was scaring

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Speaker 2: me was, Oh, you know, I'm talking to these people

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Speaker 2: from Optors, and they're so much better than me because

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Speaker 2: they work at a corporate and I found it a charity,

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Speaker 2: And what's my story even going to evoke in them?

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Speaker 1: Anyway?

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Speaker 2: They're just going to think, oh, who's this girl and

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Speaker 2: what does she have anything to do with me and

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Speaker 2: my job? You know, And then it would like that

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Speaker 2: would be the start of the narrative, and then for

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Speaker 2: me it would just get louder and louder, and then

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Speaker 2: it would almost cause me to trip myself over because

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Speaker 2: of the imposter syndrome and the negative voice inside my

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Speaker 2: head telling me then my story or you know, I

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Speaker 2: guess what my experiences were weren't worth sharing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's totally lace to start. Yeah, well no, but

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Speaker 1: it's I mean, everyone's everyone's scared of stuff, right, It's

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Speaker 1: like that your challenge is not to be fearless. Your

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Speaker 1: challenge is to be courageous despite your fear. And of

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Speaker 1: course courage can't exist without fear and exactly like, I'm

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Speaker 1: scared of a hundred things. But you know, if I

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Speaker 1: wait until I've got no fear or no performance anxiety

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Speaker 1: or no bloody imposter syndrome or no self doubt or

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Speaker 1: no insecurity, will fucking good luck, I'll be sitting in

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Speaker 1: a bean bag till I die, you know. So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is the ever present challenge of you know, of

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Speaker 1: becoming a better version of you and building something that

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Speaker 1: the world needs or wants or will be on value

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Speaker 1: like you've done serving people. Is It's like whatever you

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Speaker 1: start at, you're always a white belt, you know. So,

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Speaker 1: whether or not it's literally martial arts, you're a white belt,

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Speaker 1: or building a charity, you probably look back, do we

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Speaker 1: call it a charity or not profit? What do we

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Speaker 1: call not for profit? It is?

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Speaker 2: I mean, at the end of the day, it's a charity.

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Speaker 2: I just feel that the word charity has some negative connotations. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so you know, I guess the word not for profit

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Speaker 2: seems to be or even for purpose. I think it's

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Speaker 2: an interesting one because it feels a little bit less

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Speaker 2: of helping the poor people and more about empowerment.

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Speaker 1: They're so good, such a nice distinction. But I bet

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Speaker 1: when you started that you look now and go, fucking hell,

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Speaker 1: how much didn't I know? How many? How many dumb

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Speaker 1: things did I do with great intentions?

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Speaker 2: But how much better is it when you're twenty years

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Speaker 2: old and you don't know as being and you've got

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Speaker 2: beginner's mind and you are, you know, just full of

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Speaker 2: passion and naivity. And that was literally it. It was

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Speaker 2: like I could build a school for a few kids,

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Speaker 2: and I can make their lives a bit better. And

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Speaker 2: you know, little did I know I was going to

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Speaker 2: need you know, licenses, registration team, you know, money, all

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Speaker 2: of that, everything that comes behind sort of wanting to

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Speaker 2: just start a school in Africa and you learn on

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Speaker 2: the fly. And I think in some ways naivity was

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Speaker 2: one of the most powerful tools that I had stop

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Speaker 2: stopped me from being scared.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you don't know what you don't know, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes what you don't know that you'll find out eventually,

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Speaker 1: But in the moment of not knowing it, it is

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a psychological advantage because you don't even

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Speaker 1: know that you should be scared of that because you

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Speaker 1: don't know it exists yet. Exactly when I set up

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Speaker 1: the first personal training center, which is not comparable to

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Speaker 1: what you've set up because yours is much more philanthropic

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Speaker 1: and noble. Mine was a commercial business. But I set

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Speaker 1: up the first personal training center in Australia in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety when you were just a twinkle in your mum's eye.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, four, Okay, you're four? Okay, Yeah, I was nine.

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Speaker 1: I was an early starter. But if I had have

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Speaker 1: known how much shit I didn't know about about leasing premises,

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Speaker 1: about legal, shit about hiring and firing, about administration, about insurance,

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Speaker 1: about all the potential complications around training thousands of humans

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Speaker 1: and all of the myriad of psychological, emotional, practical, physiological

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Speaker 1: issues that come with that, and like I spent like you,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure I spent the five first five years of

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Speaker 1: my business just solving problems on a daily basis, and

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Speaker 1: problems that I was dealing with for the first time, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And not knowing how to deal with those problems because

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Speaker 2: you've a never dealt with them before and be kind

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Speaker 2: of are literally kind of in the cold face of

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Speaker 2: things that you've just never even expected now, And to

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Speaker 2: be honest, look, it's probably not dissimilar right now. It

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Speaker 2: never sort of seems to change. When you're running a business,

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Speaker 2: you're continually thrown curve balls and challenges that you haven't

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Speaker 2: you know, foresee are going to be around a corner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah so, I mean, but that's for me, that's what

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Speaker 2: it keeps it exciting. That's why I'm still here because

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Speaker 2: no two days are the same, and I love that.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there are a myriad of answers to this question,

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Speaker 1: But what were what were some of the things that

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Speaker 1: you just never expected in terms of setting up you know,

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Speaker 1: they're not at School for Life, right, in terms of

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Speaker 1: setting that up? Be they sociological, financial, cultural, legal, Like

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Speaker 1: what what was one or two of the things that

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Speaker 1: you went, fuck, I never even thought of that, and

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Speaker 1: that has been a really big challenge or I didn't

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Speaker 1: anticipate it.

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, there's been a lot.

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Speaker 1: I think maybe a better question is what don't people

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Speaker 1: get about setting up something like School for Life.

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Speaker 2: It's probably just genuinely that it is a business, right,

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Speaker 2: you know, And I think when people think of charity,

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Speaker 2: they don't you know, I still get asked everywhere I.

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Speaker 1: Go do you get paid a salary?

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Speaker 2: Or if not, how do you survive?

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Speaker 1: Every room?

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Speaker 2: I speaking really, and I believe in my heart that

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Speaker 2: it's because when you run, you know, a charity and

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Speaker 2: not for profit however you want to name it, people

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Speaker 2: believe that all that's for volunteers and they don't think

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Speaker 2: of it like a business. And so I think that's

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Speaker 2: that kind of has continually shocked me. And then, you know,

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Speaker 2: people say quite kind of negative and weird things to

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Speaker 2: you at times about you, for example, wasting your skills

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Speaker 2: and talents on you know, starting something. You know, you

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Speaker 2: would have been a great lawyer, Annabelle if you had

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Speaker 2: have just pursued that, And it's kind of a weird,

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Speaker 2: it's a very it's a very strange thing to say

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Speaker 2: to somebody. I wondered, you know, if I was in

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Speaker 2: a commercial space where people say something similar, you would

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Speaker 2: have been great at starting a charity, Anabelle.

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Speaker 1: Why did you go and do that? You know?

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Speaker 2: So I guess there's that which I find interesting, and

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Speaker 2: I suppose, yeah, the whole concept that people don't really

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Speaker 2: see it like it's a business that I'm running is

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Speaker 2: essentially what it is.

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Speaker 1: How dare you spend your life as supporting and helping

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Speaker 1: disadvantage people? Do you stop wasting your life doing all

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Speaker 1: that selfless bullshit. Get selfish women, make it all about you.

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Speaker 1: Fuck them? What are you doing? Stop being so generous

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Speaker 1: and philanthropic and compassionate. People are funny. Humans are funny,

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Speaker 1: aren't they? You know they are? They are? God bless them. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I mean that's also part of it. I guess,

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Speaker 2: bringing people along for a journey and getting them on

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Speaker 2: board and selling a vision of something that they couldn't

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Speaker 2: see because of course it didn't exist yet. It was

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Speaker 2: a really interesting process, I think, you know, at the

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Speaker 2: end to kind of Ripe Age of twenty trying to

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Speaker 2: sort of stell a vision of schools in Uganda that

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Speaker 2: myself and my core founder we're going to deliver on

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Speaker 2: was quite you know, the amount of naysays and critics

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Speaker 2: was huge because people were just like, you're insane, how

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Speaker 2: would you possibly think that you're going to be able

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Speaker 2: to do this? But I think and then you know,

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Speaker 2: to that point to then try to build a community

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Speaker 2: around it of like minded people who wanted to be

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Speaker 2: able to support it, you know, in an ongoing way

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Speaker 2: has been really interesting. And yeah, humans are interesting and

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Speaker 2: they're different, so it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: So I had this question because you've probably been asked

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Speaker 1: for a thousand times, but I don't know, and my

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Speaker 1: listeners don't know the guesser. So what was the genesis? Like?

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Speaker 1: Did you go over there thinking I'm going to go

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Speaker 1: and do some research, a bit of a wreckie, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to see what the needs are and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to meet those needs. Or were you just over there

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Speaker 1: doing stuff and you went, oh, fuck, there's a real

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Speaker 1: hole here that needs to be filled and maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: I could be part of the solution. Is how did

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Speaker 1: it go? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So I wanted to work with the UN that was

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Speaker 2: my goal. I was studying arts law at Sydney UNI,

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Speaker 2: and I was learning French because I wanted, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was I'd already was speaking it fluently and I

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Speaker 2: wanted to remain bilingual. And so I was like, but

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Speaker 2: I want to use my skills to make a difference

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Speaker 2: and I want to work with the United Nations. And

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Speaker 2: so I decided to volunteer in Kenya to get some

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Speaker 2: kind of field experience. And when I got to Kenya,

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Speaker 2: Kenya had a civil coup in two thousand and eight

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Speaker 2: when there was extreme election violence and I was evacuated

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Speaker 2: across the border into Uganda, and if I'm really honest

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Speaker 2: with you, it was kind of this strange moment because

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Speaker 2: the organization that I was volunteering with didn't have an

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Speaker 2: operation over in Uganda, so they kind of wiped their

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Speaker 2: hands clean of us, and we were left kind of

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Speaker 2: just figure out what to do. And so I looked

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Speaker 2: at a whole bunch of different projects, and I was

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Speaker 2: quite dated by what I saw in the bigger international

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Speaker 2: NDO space because I felt, you know, they felt like

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Speaker 2: quite a lot of resources were being wasted. And hence

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Speaker 2: the reason I guess I wanted to start something grassroots,

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Speaker 2: where I went, well, actually people need education. Education is

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Speaker 2: something that you can't take away from people, and so

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Speaker 2: if I could just build some schools and get some

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Speaker 2: kids educated, then that would make a difference. And so

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Speaker 2: it sort of went from kind of, I guess, a

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Speaker 2: view of kind of where I wanted to work career

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Speaker 2: a career wise, to changing into kind of a whole,

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Speaker 2: a whole different life. Really, it is a life that

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Speaker 2: I've completely built.

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Speaker 1: And love. So what you know, I'm just listening. Because

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Speaker 1: I'm thirty percent female, I can multitask. Do you know

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Speaker 1: how many people live in Uganda off the top of

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Speaker 1: your head. Yes, forty eight million. Wow, that's yeah. I

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Speaker 1: just you're right, you're right. And in Kenya is fifty

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Speaker 1: four million. And I'm I had you could have told

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Speaker 1: me seven million, I wouldn't have known. I mean, I really,

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Speaker 1: I really didn't know. And that is that's massive. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's double our population nearly, isn't.

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Speaker 2: It in a landspace the size of Australia state of Victoria. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: So it is densely populated. Women are having you know,

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Speaker 2: six to ten children, wow, and fifty six percent of

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Speaker 2: children complete primary school. So you're talking about a very

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Speaker 2: uneducated place, and sadly that's just because of lack of

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Speaker 2: access and lack of opportunity, and you know, by nature

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Speaker 2: of birth, they've been born into really vicious cycles of

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Speaker 2: poverty that are very difficult to break free from.

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Speaker 1: So you get kicked out of Kenya kinda and you

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Speaker 1: end up in Uganda with your did you say your sister?

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Speaker 2: So I had a friend there from school, right, and

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Speaker 2: we were there together, and then there were some other

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Speaker 2: volunteers that were also Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So all right, so give us a little bit of

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Speaker 1: the events between that, and you know, school for life, Like,

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Speaker 1: what where did you start? What light bulb happened? What

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Speaker 1: was the first decision or awareness?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think pretty much just not having anything organized

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Speaker 2: to do, so therefore just needing to roll our sleeves

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Speaker 2: up and figure out how we could actually be helpful.

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Speaker 2: And I mean we're talking. I'm a twenty year old.

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Speaker 2: I'm not really helpful at all, let alone and my helpful,

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Speaker 2: you know, trying to teach English to children. But it

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Speaker 2: was there in the kind of government schools that I

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Speaker 2: realized there's massive issues. You know, you turn up to

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Speaker 2: a classroom that was full of broken down furniture, no blackboards.

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Speaker 2: The children were walking five to ten kilometers every day

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Speaker 2: with no shoes on their feet, on empty stomachs to

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Speaker 2: get to these classrooms. But they were doing that with

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Speaker 2: a smile on their face. And they were still doing

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Speaker 2: that even if they were turning up to what we

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Speaker 2: would perceive to be the world's worst classroom, because they

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Speaker 2: know that education is something that's going to break them

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Speaker 2: free from the cycle of poverty. They know that education

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Speaker 2: is going to give them opportunity. And so I just thought,

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Speaker 2: my God, like we take so much for granted here

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Speaker 2: in Australia. I was so lucky, you know, and literally

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Speaker 2: it's just the lotto of life has had these children

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Speaker 2: born here into a place where they don't get an education,

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Speaker 2: and we we're so lucky. How can I use what

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Speaker 2: I've got to do something? So it was kind of

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Speaker 2: that scratch your head moment. And I think there's also

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Speaker 2: some I guess there given the statistics around Uganda, and

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Speaker 2: I won't kind of bore you with them, but the

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Speaker 2: problem can feel so huge. It's the fifth youngest population

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Speaker 2: in the world. It's a huge population living in a

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Speaker 2: very small country. So many kids aren't getting a chance,

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Speaker 2: and it would be so easy to just walk away

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Speaker 2: and just go, oh, don't even know where to begin, yes,

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Speaker 2: But rather than do that, it was more about, okay, well,

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Speaker 2: how do we just put one foot in front of

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Speaker 2: the other and do something for some kids, because you know,

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Speaker 2: something for some kids is better than nothing for no kids.

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Speaker 2: And so then I came home and I'd met my

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Speaker 2: co founder over in Kena and we just caught up

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Speaker 2: for a drink and we both spoke about how we

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Speaker 2: had to share vision and desire to provide education to kids,

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Speaker 2: and then we started scratching out business plans and pretty

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Speaker 2: much just talking to anybody that would listen about our ideas,

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Speaker 2: most of whom said, you know, you're crazy, come back

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Speaker 2: to us when you finish your UNI degrees, or don't

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Speaker 2: come back to us at all, because you know, who

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Speaker 2: are you anyway. But it was sort of those naysays

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Speaker 2: and critics that kind of fired us up and we

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Speaker 2: were like, we can do this.

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Speaker 1: So started fundraising and then went across.

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Speaker 2: The premise of School for Life that we've always built

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Speaker 2: on was that these schools need to be own and

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Speaker 2: run by local people. And one of our key takeaways

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Speaker 2: from our time spent in East Africa was that, you know,

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Speaker 2: the kind of model of Westerners doing things for people

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Speaker 2: in developing nations and then leaving does not work, doesn't stick,

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Speaker 2: no buy in, Yes, you know, and it's a similar

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Speaker 2: thing with welfare. I think I'm going to be pretty

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Speaker 2: controversially in saying that, but I just I believe that

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Speaker 2: you've got to have skin in the game. And so

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Speaker 2: from the start, the model was always that we would

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Speaker 2: community members with the skills, tools, resources funding that they

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Speaker 2: need to be able to build and run schools for themselves.

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Speaker 1: And I guess you had to build a lot of relationships.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about over there, you needed to develop trust

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Speaker 1: and respect and rapport and relationships with the people who

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Speaker 1: live there. And I guess the community leaders slash politicians

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Speaker 1: slash education I don't know. Like to me, there seems

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Speaker 1: like a myriad of fucking variables that you need to negotiate.

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Speaker 1: If I get too technical at any time, just let

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Speaker 1: me know about I'll wind it back, you know. But

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Speaker 1: that like developing all those relationships and the conduit that

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Speaker 1: you needed to do, that pathway between you and I

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Speaker 1: guess the decision makers or the enablers and facilitators on

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Speaker 1: the other side of the world, that must have been

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Speaker 1: an ever present challenge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, so many layers, like learning to understand the

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Speaker 2: layers they'n navigating through them. They've got kind of like

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Speaker 2: a sort of similar structure of government that we have,

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Speaker 2: you know, and corruptions rife. I'm a female, which you

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Speaker 2: know is particularly fifteen sixteen years ago when I first started. Yes,

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Speaker 2: you know, females don't have a place at the table

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Speaker 2: when it comes to business, So you know, there was

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Speaker 2: all of that, and then on top of that, it

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Speaker 2: was also kind of then we identified very poor communities

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Speaker 2: that we wanted to operate in, and by nature of

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Speaker 2: their poverty or vulnerability, the issues were so multi dimensional.

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Speaker 1: So you've got you.

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Speaker 2: Know, not just kind of a lack of education, but

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Speaker 2: a lack of healthcare, deep set issues around domestic abuse,

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Speaker 2: You've got alcoholism, you have you know, women having multiple children,

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Speaker 2: unwanted potentially being forced into unwanted marriages. You know, a

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Speaker 2: huge number of issues, and you know, so navigating the

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Speaker 2: politics but also then I guess this solution for the

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Speaker 2: complexity of the issue was really challenging but also kind

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Speaker 2: of exciting at the same time, because every time we

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Speaker 2: unlocked a relationship with a certain level of government, we

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Speaker 2: felt like we were getting closer. And then once we

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Speaker 2: got into the community, a lot of the issues are

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Speaker 2: relatively simple to solve for, you know, fields coming down

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Speaker 2: with typhoid. Let's put in deep set boreholes to provide

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Speaker 2: the whole community with access to clean water for free.

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Speaker 2: You know, some of them are quite simple to solve for.

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Speaker 2: Others have taken a long time. You know, things like

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Speaker 2: gender equity and domestic abuse, systemic issues that are going

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Speaker 2: to take a long time for mindset to shift around Wow, this.

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Speaker 1: Is much bigger than just classroom education. Right. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: just like because I was just thinking schools, kids education,

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Speaker 1: but this is really a community, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: much bigger. This is all the intero family, cultural you know,

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Speaker 1: all of that, that bigger picture, that macro, not just

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Speaker 1: the micro stuff.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And we didn't we definitely didn't know or anticipate

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Speaker 2: that because I think, you know, we thought to ourselves, oh,

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Speaker 2: we'll just do a few schools. But then what you

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Speaker 2: actually realize is that if a child isn't healthy physically

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Speaker 2: or mentally, yes, they can't learn. So it doesn't really

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Speaker 2: matter how they're you know, if they're in the classroom,

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Speaker 2: if they're being beaten up at home, they're starving, they're

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Speaker 2: drinking bad water, their health is bad, you know, and

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Speaker 2: then on top of that, you've got the family situation.

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Speaker 2: So you know, once we started, we open the schools,

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Speaker 2: the kids are coming to starving. We put in feeding programs.

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Speaker 2: They were missing days of school due to illness, so

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Speaker 2: then we put in healthcare clinics. And then they would

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Speaker 2: go home and start to teach their parents how to

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Speaker 2: read and write. Wow, And their parents would come back

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Speaker 2: in and say we want to learn too, So you know,

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Speaker 2: it became this sort of holistic community development center that

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Speaker 2: started to completely shift the way the fabric of the

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Speaker 2: community looked. And even just by nature of bringing teachers

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Speaker 2: into the community and providing them accommodation on site, the

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Speaker 2: community members were sitting up straighter. You know, kids who

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Speaker 2: otherwise would have never had a dream. Their dream was

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Speaker 2: to dig, you know, on the field, to grow the

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Speaker 2: food that they were going to use to feed themselves

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Speaker 2: that night, and now dreaming of becoming pilots and doctors.

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Speaker 2: That was just so far from you know, the realms

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Speaker 2: of possibility for any of these young people, and now

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Speaker 2: you kind of see worlds just opening up. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: it really really complex but incredible. At the same time,

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: It's much bigger than you, and I know you're going

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Speaker 1: to be self deprecating and evasive because that's you, right,

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Speaker 1: But do you ever go, fucking hell, I've done well,

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Speaker 1: I've done a good jo and I know it's not

388
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Speaker 1: about you, But do you ever go I'm pretty good,

389
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Speaker 1: I've done a good job. Not really.

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Speaker 2: It's like, you know, during COVID, I didn't I couldn't

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Speaker 2: get over there for a couple of years and I

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Speaker 2: had my first daughter, and so there was just this hiatus,

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Speaker 2: and I thought, this is going to really kind of

394
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Speaker 2: test the model, because you know, it's been always locals

395
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Speaker 2: leading it, running it, executing on the plans, and we

396
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Speaker 2: can't get over there. So it's kind of going to

397
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Speaker 2: live or die. And it really lived like it kind

398
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Speaker 2: of didn't just survive, it thrived. And then so there

399
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Speaker 2: was just this break in time where I've been so

400
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Speaker 2: used to like spending, you know, going over four or

401
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Speaker 2: five times a year, spending you know, a month at

402
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Speaker 2: a time over there, and then I kind of.

403
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Speaker 1: Didn't go there.

404
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Speaker 2: And so when I did go back, Oh, it just

405
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Speaker 2: hit me in the face. You know, it was one

406
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Speaker 2: of the only times where you know, it's just been

407
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Speaker 2: so long and you're just like, oh gosh, I'd forgotten

408
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Speaker 2: what this feels like. To see what true transformation looks

409
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Speaker 2: like and to just see how much hope there is

410
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Speaker 2: here in otherwise quite broken community. So yeah, it really cool.

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Speaker 1: So why do you do it? Ah?

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Speaker 3: It?

413
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Speaker 2: You know, it's hard to even grasp anymore because I

414
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Speaker 2: think it's morphed in so many ways.

415
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Speaker 1: I love a challenge, and.

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Speaker 2: I think it's the epitome of an ever moving challenge.

417
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Speaker 2: Every stage of the organizations life cycle has challenged me

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Speaker 2: in different ways. But I think it's equally married with

419
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Speaker 2: being able to see a really tangible impact in that

420
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Speaker 2: you know, you've got children who perhaps couldn't look you

421
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Speaker 2: in the eye, were riddled with illness, stunted due to malnutrition,

422
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Speaker 2: unable to kind of participate. To see them come into

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Speaker 2: a system where they're fully nurtured and grown as humans,

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Speaker 2: not just like academically, almost kind of become like a butterfly,

425
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Speaker 2: that's the most remarkable gift, most remarkable gift, and it

426
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Speaker 2: will never get old for me. I don't think so.

427
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Speaker 2: I think that's the key driver, is just unlocking potential. Yeah,

428
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Speaker 2: there's nothing like it.

429
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Speaker 1: And how many people, like how many people are on

430
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Speaker 1: your team? I guess as people who are full timers

431
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Speaker 1: and part timers and volunteer You like, how does that work?

432
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Speaker 1: How many people are involved in making this happen?

433
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 2: Yeah? Globally probably one hundred and fifty Wow, I would

434
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 2: say the line shairs obviously in Africa, so I've got

435
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 2: about one hundred and forty over there. So they're everything

436
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 2: from builders, cooks, cleaners, maintenance, security, teachers, managers, you know,

437
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 2: ground staff, ag et cetera. And then in Australia a

438
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 2: very lean team we're about seven, but then we've got

439
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 2: probably another kind of ten odd volunteers and we do

440
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: anything from kind of marketing, fundraising, strategy, impact evaluation. Yeah,

441
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 2: getting the word out there about the work that we do.

442
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: How did you go mentally and emotionally in that downtime

443
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: because everyone, you know, we all have spoken about COVID

444
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: and my you know, we were talking about corporate speaking

445
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: before we went live, and I literally I wanted to

446
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: say how much. But in the matter, in a matter

447
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: of two or three weeks, I lost a year's worth

448
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: of income of bookings and you're like, oh, this is okay,

449
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: So this is a new reality. And everybody, you know,

450
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: and I got off lightly like a lot of people were,

451
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 1: you know, the businesses closed, they were fucked. But what

452
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: about you where you couldn't go and be where you

453
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: wanted to be, You couldn't do you couldn't do it

454
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: in the way that you've been doing it. How did

455
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: you navigate personally? Forget the organization for a moment, but

456
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: how did you cope? You work aholic. You over it?

457
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: You fucking I love it. I'll rest when I'm dead.

458
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: How did you go with that?

459
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 2: That was my time to shine because I love it.

460
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 2: I love a crisis, right, So we had our black

461
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: tied gullible coming out. We hosted ball every year that

462
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 2: raises the majority of the operational funds for the EU,

463
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 2: so it does anywhere from kind of one to two

464
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 2: and a half million dollars in one night, and of

465
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:11,959
Speaker 2: course that's an in person event, so we had to

466
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,479
Speaker 2: cancel that. So, you know, that was terrifying because we

467
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,719
Speaker 2: were looking down the barrel of kind of fifty percent

468
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 2: class of our annual budget just with a line through it,

469
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: and then equally having to kind of just then strategize

470
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 2: for like, well, okay, if we don't have this, then

471
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 2: what what are we going to do? So lots of

472
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: lots of phone calls and kind of chaos. But then

473
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 2: in the personal side, I guess it was just, yeah, workaholic,

474
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 2: so making sure that because work became at home not

475
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 2: in the office, that I didn't just kind of work,

476
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 2: you know, sixteen hours a day because I could do

477
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: that out of my bedroom rather than you know, having

478
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 2: I guess a different physical premise. And then the other

479
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 2: complex challenge we were navigating was we just can't just

480
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: switch to a virtual classroom. Our kids come from mud

481
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 2: huts without access to electricity and let alone you know,

482
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 2: kind of jumping onto Google classrooms. So there was a

483
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: whole operational challenge of kind of how do we keep

484
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: the kids in the system, particularly knowing that girls particularly

485
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: are at risk of falling into unwanted you know, marriages

486
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 2: and pregnancies. And so we were really driven and motivated by, Okay,

487
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 2: what's it going to take for us to be able

488
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: to legally work within the confines of the rules of

489
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: what the Ministry of Education were telling us to do

490
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: in Uganda, but also still serving the needs of the

491
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,479
Speaker 2: of the children and their families. So quite quickly managed

492
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,719
Speaker 2: to kind of you know, we love the word pivot,

493
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 2: but pivot our operation and I'm talking you know, hard

494
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 2: copy handouts and working in small group outdoor learning environments,

495
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: still continuing to feed the children, redeploying staff upskilling and

496
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: training them, using the opportunity to do a lot of

497
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: maintenance on the schools. We built a boarding facility for

498
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 2: six hundred high school students during that time because construction

499
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: was still allowed, so just like, how are we going

500
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: to keep everybody on the tools because we don't you know,

501
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 2: there's no job saver or whatever it was called that

502
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 2: we were getting if we weren't paying them. The new

503
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 2: Gan and Team were, you know, sort of there was

504
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:42,959
Speaker 2: no backstop. But that was exciting for me, you know,

505
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: once the shock, I was actually in Uganda up until

506
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 2: I think it was the twentieth of March. I got

507
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: on the last flight out. I didn't reconcile how bad

508
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 2: things were because I wasn't here when all the meat

509
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: got taken off the supermarket shelves and everybody started toilet

510
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 2: holding toilet paper. But I brought got a twelve pack

511
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 2: back from U Gander in my suitcase, so I was sweet.

512
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 2: The pew tickets, you've got to ration them exactly.

513
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: How do you decide, like, how do you decide moving forward?

514
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: Because there must be so many needs, right, It's not like,

515
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: oh we've got everything covered now, it's good, So moving forward,

516
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: how do you decide what your focus is going to be,

517
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: where the money is going to go, because I guess

518
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: your objective is not to be in a holding pattern,

519
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: but to grow and meet more needs and do more

520
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: things right, to expand and improve and you know, serve

521
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: on a greater level. How do you decide what gets

522
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: your focus and what gets your.

523
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: Dough Yeah, great question and one that's like a constant interrogation.

524
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 2: But I mean when i've kind of soul searched, which

525
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: is usually I've now got too young daughters, and I

526
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 2: feel like.

527
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: The time that I've had kind.

528
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 2: Of at three and breastfeeding awake, feeling very alone in

529
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 2: the middle ofthon itis, when I kind of ponder these

530
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 2: really tricky issues, I think, you know, what gets us

531
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 2: out of bed is serving communities that otherwise nobody else

532
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 2: would or could serve. So we're talking about kind of

533
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: extreme poverty environments and taking them from nothing to something,

534
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 2: and so ideally we're not there forever. In the years

535
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 2: that we've worked with the two communities that we're working in,

536
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: there's been just a huge shift. They've started to be

537
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: able to chip in for you know, there's always been

538
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 2: an expectation that they will chip in for their school fees,

539
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 2: but they've started to chip in in a more substantial way,

540
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: which means that we can start to kind of look

541
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: for other communities to work in so, I suppose the

542
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: best way of putting it is we look for last

543
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 2: mile communities where others can't and won't build schools, and

544
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: we use that as so, you know, go for the

545
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 2: poorest and have a really good cracket at changing their

546
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 2: trajectory through these essentially education centers.

547
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: I guess. I mean ultimately you want them to be

548
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: self sustaining and independent and you know, so that they

549
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: can just continue what you know, you lit the fuse on,

550
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: you threw the petrol on the fire, and hopefully they

551
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: can keep that metaphoric fire burning. I want to know,

552
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: tell me a little bit about your mum and dad,

553
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: because I'm trying to figure something out about you. Give

554
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: me a snapshot of mum and dad.

555
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 2: Workaholics, self made. Dad inherited a big family mess when

556
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 2: his father passed away quite early from melanoma. He had,

557
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 2: you know, a farm that he had quite he'd been

558
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 2: drinking prior to passing away and there was a lot

559
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 2: of debt attached to it. He also was driven by

560
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 2: the fact that his mum had polio and had been

561
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 2: diagnosed with polio since the age of nine, so some

562
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: quite a lot of mobility issues. So he was kind

563
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: of pulled back to the farm where I guess the

564
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 2: question was does he kind of sell up and break

565
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 2: even then walk away or does he make something of it?

566
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 2: And he's quite entrepreneurial, so he sort of made something

567
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: of it, and you know, continues to work from four

568
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 2: am to eight pm every day, you know, age sixty eight,

569
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 2: and says that he will die doing it, which I.

570
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: Think, come on, dad, have a breather, old mate. Exactly.

571
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 2: And then the education side is mum forty plus years

572
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 2: as a teacher. She was my teacher at primary and

573
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: high school. Come from quite small communities of education, and

574
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 2: so you know, she's just incredible educator and and and

575
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: instilled in me that that passion and for what a

576
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 2: gift education is. She's recently retired and is giving me

577
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: a lot of help with my young family, which is amazing.

578
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 2: Enables me to be able to keep doing what I do.

579
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: And also she serves or could serve I guess as

580
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: a free advisor in the academic space. Absolutely absolutely exactly

581
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: what and what a mum and dad think of you know,

582
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: what you've built. So I'm sure they're proud and all

583
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: of that, but what what do they were they when

584
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: you came back and went, Okay, here's my idea. Did

585
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: they roll their eyes or did they go of course,

586
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: that's why are you little?

587
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 2: You know?

588
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: I look, it was a feud for a few years.

589
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 2: You know, I was I was studying to be a lawyer,

590
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 2: and you know, I was the A grade kid that

591
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: was going to be a lawyer. And then I went

592
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 2: to Africa and I came back and said that I

593
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 2: was going to build some schools, and so that was

594
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 2: kind of terrifying, which I now understand now that I've

595
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: become a mom myself. I get it like that's kind

596
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 2: of every parent's worst nightmare because you're just going, well,

597
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 2: that's you know, all you ever hear about him. The

598
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,439
Speaker 2: news is bad stuff about Africa. You don't hear any

599
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 2: of the amazing stuff. And so I came back and

600
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 2: they were just kind of mortified. But I guess they

601
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 2: thought it was probably going to be a phase and

602
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 2: that it wouldn't get up off the ground anyway. So

603
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 2: they went along for a bit, and then I remember

604
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 2: when they came over three years into the journey, when

605
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 2: we finished the first school, and I thought Dad was

606
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 2: going to pass out, like he was just crying, you know,

607
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 2: and just you know, just could not believe it. And

608
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 2: you know, he is our biggest they both are our

609
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 2: biggest advocates. So yeah, it's been a journey, but mostly

610
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 2: just because I think, you know, it's a pretty weird

611
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 2: thing to kind of come home and say, when you've

612
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 2: grown up on a sheep and cattle farming country New

613
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 2: South Wales.

614
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: I think I have nowhere near the experience and I've

615
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: had nowhere near the exposure that you have. But I

616
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: went I went to South Africa a long time ago

617
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: for a while to do some work with a charity,

618
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: and so it was nine and ninety nine, right, but

619
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: I was there for over a month, and I was

620
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: working with kids who are HIV positive and also you know,

621
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: and a real lot of issues. And I did compared

622
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: to what you do, I didn't do anything. I just

623
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 1: helped out a bit, right, But for me, it was

624
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 1: like you know, people go, oh, it was life changing,

625
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: it was transformative and all of that, but there's some

626
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: shit that you can't really understand unless you see it,

627
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: and unless you're you can even see videos and footage

628
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: and you can hear conversations. But I felt like the

629
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: most privileged, spoilt, delfish, fucking human. When I got over

630
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: there and I went, Okay, I have absolutely no problems.

631
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: My life is Hollywood I have you know, for me,

632
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: it just gave me. And I know this is an

633
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: obvious and cliche thing to say, but Annabella gave me

634
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: just like a perspective that I couldn't have had, Like

635
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: it wouldn't matter how many stories you told me, how

636
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: many pictures, how many videos, you know, Like I worked

637
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: at a few different places, but I worked at a

638
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: place for a week called Acres of Love, and basically

639
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: it was just this four bedroom house. And in this

640
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 1: four bedroom house there were four bunk beds and sixteen

641
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: kids and they're all HIV positive and there was a

642
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 1: twenty four hour staff rotation. And literally from the moment

643
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,959
Speaker 1: that I got there, they're like, here's a bottle feed,

644
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: these kids, do that clean that wash that go out there,

645
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 1: like nobody's special except the kids. And You're like, yeah,

646
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: it just for me, I think. And if you experienced that,

647
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: like with people that come over like your mom and dad,

648
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: obviously it was life changing or at least paradigm shifting.

649
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 1: Is that true most people?

650
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think anyone gets out unscathed. And we

651
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 2: started a parent child Troop a few years ago because

652
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 2: of that exact experience, I guess, and me thinking to myself,

653
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 2: I would love students to feel this when they're in

654
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: their education journey and thinking about what their own kind

655
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 2: of careers and pathways look like, yes, rather than kind

656
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 2: of experiencing it, you know, midway through UNI or whatever

657
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 2: where you can still you know, you can still pursue

658
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 2: a certain pathway. But I think that jolted me so much,

659
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 2: and like you say, you can't unsee it, you can't

660
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: unfeel it, and you know, it doesn't ness sssarily mean

661
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 2: that everyone's going to go away and start an organization

662
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 2: and do something. But it's more just like you say,

663
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: it's just this most deep wake up call that we're

664
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: just so lucky and just to be so grateful for

665
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 2: what we have and so yeah, to provide out other

666
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: people that opportunity became a prerogative for.

667
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 1: Me as well.

668
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 2: And I do believe that it's created a good impact

669
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,760
Speaker 2: for other people, you know, in Australia to think about

670
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 2: how they can do something for other people. You know,

671
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 2: whatever it is, it doesn't matter what it is it's

672
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 2: just do something. Yeah, use what you have to make

673
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 2: a different I went to.

674
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: This place called I think it was called Door of

675
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: Hope as well, and it was like this whole facility.

676
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: And anyway, while I was there, this alarm went and

677
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: I said to this this gorgeous lady who was like

678
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: carrying around fucking three kids, you know, I go and

679
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: this alarm goes, and all of these people it's like

680
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: battle stations. All of these people kind of run and

681
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: I'm like, what's going on? And so this is almost

682
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: this is hard to believe. But so this was in

683
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 1: joe Burg. And so the front of the place that

684
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: the wall was about I don't know, eight feet high,

685
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: and on top of the wall was razor wire. Right.

686
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: But in the middle of this big brick wall is

687
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: essentially like a steel door about like a galvanized iron

688
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: door about this wide, so about a meter wide and

689
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: about six hundred mil high, and inside was like a

690
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: little crib. So what would happen is these young women

691
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: who would get pregnant through through no desire to be pregnant.

692
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: Let's just leave it at that. They would they they

693
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: some of them were just discarding these babies and so

694
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: they built this thing where these newborn babies would would

695
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: be put inside this little crib and it would set

696
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 1: off an alarm and they would and I'm like, what's

697
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: going on? Then they brought in this brand new baby.

698
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 1: I'm like that, I'm I'm and everyone's just running around

699
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: doing all the practical shit they need to do. I was,

700
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, where am I like? What is? How is

701
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: this happening? Like where you go? I don't know anything.

702
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: I am an idiot. And I was crying. I was crying.

703
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 1: I was I was a mess. I was a mess.

704
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this child's life, and I was

705
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 1: thinking about the poor mum, and I was thinking about

706
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: how is this happening in you know? Anyway? It is?

707
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 1: The need is vast, and it's not it's not diminishing.

708
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: I wanted to know. This is maybe a weird question,

709
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: but like a lot of people who are a percentage

710
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 1: of people who work in similar spaces to you, they're

711
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: linked to a religious organization or I'm not going to

712
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: ask you if you're religious, but is there any kind

713
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: of spiritual guiding force in your life? Or are you

714
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: just really pragmatic and practical and you're like No, I'm

715
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: just doing it because or is there you know, we

716
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: need to feed kids, educate kids, and make lives better.

717
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: And I know that on that on a level, you're

718
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: very practical and strategic. But is there something else as well? No?

719
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 2: Not, not really. I went to a high school that

720
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 2: really deeply valued service, no religious affiliation, and I'm not

721
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 2: religious myself, and nor is schoolful life.

722
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: But I think that probably helps in a way, maybe definitely.

723
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: And you know, we've been really, we've been really you know,

724
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 2: quite clear and adamant about not being religious and taking

725
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 2: kids from any religion or no religion, you know, so

726
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 2: that's kind of a core part of why also why

727
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 2: we actually started something rather than joined forces with something

728
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 2: that already existed. But you know, just this idea of

729
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 2: service above self with such a huge part of my

730
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 2: high school kind of I guess motto or values, and

731
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 2: it just taught me from such a young age that

732
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 2: you give, sorry, that you get so much more than

733
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 2: you give when you help others. And yeah, so I

734
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 2: guess that's that's it. Really, there's not I wish there

735
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 2: was sort of some kind of Buddhist or whatever.

736
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: Well, I reckon your philosophy is loving, kindness and service, right,

737
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: I mean absolutely, and give what you can.

738
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't matter what that is, but you know,

739
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 2: and I can promise you get you know, tenfold in return.

740
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 2: And so and also I suppose also just the opportunity

741
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 2: to create community. I love how connected people become to

742
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 2: something like this, and that's really inspiring to be a

743
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,760
Speaker 2: part of because I think you find really like minded

744
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 2: people who were driven by this similar kind of purpose

745
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: and passions. So that's probably kept me going as well.

746
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,720
Speaker 1: I'm always I'm always paying attention to guests and thinking

747
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: about what I'm going to call the show, what I'm

748
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: going to call this episode, And so I now know

749
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,760
Speaker 1: that this episode is going to be called service above self.

750
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: So thank you for that. Thank you for because sometimes

751
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: I get off and I'm just going to come up

752
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 1: with it myself. This is also a hard question. We'll

753
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: wind it up because you've been very gracious with your time,

754
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: but how how apart from the fact that you've gotten

755
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: older and wiser and had lots of experiences, how are

756
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: you different from the twenty year old vision of you

757
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 1: or you know, pre Uganda. But how do you think

758
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 1: you are? You know, if you had have taken the

759
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 1: lawyer path and done. How do you think you're a

760
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: different human being to you know, the sliding door Annabelle

761
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: that would have gone left instead of right. I know

762
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: that's a hypothetic. Well I know it's a hypothetical, but

763
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: it's like like, for example, when I was in my

764
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: early twenties, I went, fuck, I don't want a job.

765
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: I want to work for me. So I haven't had

766
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: a job for over three and a half decades, right, So,

767
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 1: but I could you know, I think, Wow, if I

768
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: had have said, well, I'm just going to work for someone,

769
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 1: my life would have been very different. But I literally

770
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 1: haven't had a boss for three and a half decades.

771
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: But I could kind of guess how it would have gone.

772
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: What about you do?

773
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 3: You know what, because I'm a fucking terrible employee, I'll

774
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 3: be in jail and I look, there's been like dark

775
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 3: moments where I'm just you know, at the edge of

776
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 3: burnout and just going like why I can't like, maybe

777
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 3: I'll just go get a job and I'd probably be

778
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 3: paid three times as much and have to work kind

779
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 3: of you know, a temp is hard, but there's just

780
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 3: no way, Like I just I think the character and

781
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 3: the resilience that it's built in me to solve the things.

782
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 2: That are just so far outside the realms of kind

783
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:32,879
Speaker 2: of what's expected has really made, you know, a huge

784
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 2: impact on me. And then I think, as I kind

785
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 2: of have mentioned a couple of times throughout this, it's

786
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 2: a life that I've built. It's not a career or

787
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 2: a job. It's everything.

788
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: You know.

789
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 2: My friends are around it, my family is involved in it.

790
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 2: I've got my you know, my daughters are in you

791
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 2: going to be involved in it. It's a rich kind

792
00:46:55,360 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 2: of tapestry of opportunity and and I've got this kind

793
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 2: of whole other world in Uganda, Like I got married

794
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 2: over there. They put on a surprise wedding for us,

795
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 2: you know, like it's just there's just the richness of

796
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 2: it is just so immense. I just can't imagine not

797
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:20,760
Speaker 2: having that and kind of doing a job that paid

798
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 2: the bills and was nothing more.

799
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 1: Do they there's a dumb question, of course they do.

800
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: But are you embraced by the community. Do they love you?

801
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:33,399
Speaker 1: Do they have a name for you.

802
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 2: Like they have a special like yeah, my mama Anna. Yeah,

803
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 2: definitely embraced. I try and stay in the background, though

804
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 2: I really don't want to be, you know, mother kind

805
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 2: of hair over there. Like again, it's about empowering them

806
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 2: to be their own heroes for themselves, and so I

807
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 2: think ideally I'm lifting from underneath as much as I can,

808
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 2: and I've always tried to be quite intentional about that.

809
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 2: So I hope that that's the way that I'm seeing.

810
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 2: But in returning after COVID, there was a big hurrah,

811
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 2: and I mean that was just just blew my mind.

812
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: So we've got the documentary actually is being released on

813
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 2: SBS on demand this week, so you can hop on

814
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 2: and see that. It's called Seeds Planting Hopes through Education

815
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 2: and you can see kind of more of that. Just

816
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 2: how incredibly special the communities are.

817
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,919
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of a dude called Justin Wren. No,

818
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: so Justin Wren. I had on the show now Justin

819
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 1: Wren yep, so Justin with a W with a w Wren.

820
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: Justin Wren. So Justin Wren. Is was a UFC fight

821
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: up so in the UFC and he he had a

822
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 1: real moment like you in in Uganda with I think

823
00:48:54,880 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 1: they're called thet Theti pygmies. Yeah, so he built all

824
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: these Wells in Uganda and it's called Fight for the Forgot,

825
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 1: Fight for the Forgotten. Okay, fight for the Forgotten. And

826
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: we had him on and he's just a beautiful human.

827
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: I love him. I fucking love him. He's such a

828
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: and he was like his life was a bit shit.

829
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: He was a you know, like a world level MMA

830
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,439
Speaker 1: fighter in the UFC. Like his life was going shit,

831
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: and he went to he went to Uganda. I can't

832
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 1: remember why he was there, and he met all these

833
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,760
Speaker 1: pigmies and they just embraced him. And now he spends

834
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 1: half his life there and he's had bloody what's that

835
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: disease you get from the water, what do you call it?

836
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: Ophoid malaria? Like ten times? And you know he's you know,

837
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: he's always but yeah, like reminds me. You two remind

838
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 1: me of each other. Just just that people doing awesome

839
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: things for people in need.

840
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm going to look him up. I'm going

841
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 2: to listen to his podcast.

842
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: Check him out, check him out. All right, how do

843
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: we help? How do we help point us in the

844
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 1: right direction? Yeah, just jump on jump on our website.

845
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 2: It's called School for Life dot org dot au. You

846
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 2: can provide a child with a scholarship, or you can

847
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 2: sign up to get our newsletters. Everything makes a difference,

848
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 2: so and we do lots of events throughout the year,

849
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 2: so get involved.

850
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 1: You're the best, You're the best. Thank you, no, thank

851
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 1: you for having me. Ah amazing, amazing. Annabelle will say goodbye, affair,

852
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,399
Speaker 1: but thank you so much. Congratulations on what you're doing.

853
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: I know you don't want any of that bullshit, but

854
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: fuck it, I'm giving it to you. Thanks great, congrats

855
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: to you and your team, and thank you so much

856
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: for being generous with us but also generous with the

857
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: people that you're serving. It's beautiful. Appreciate at you my pleasure.

858
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: Thank you