1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,390 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,390 --> 00:00:10,860 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Tomorrow, Australians head to the polls for the first referendum since 3 00:00:10,860 --> 00:00:13,619 Sean Aylmer: the vote on the Republic, more than 20 years ago. 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,440 Sean Aylmer: There's a high bar here, in order to change the 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,828 Sean Aylmer: Constitution to introduce an Indigenous Voice to parliament, there needs 6 00:00:19,829 --> 00:00:22,650 Sean Aylmer: to be what they're calling a double majority, a majority 7 00:00:22,650 --> 00:00:26,160 Sean Aylmer: of voters nationally, and a majority of states, all saying 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:30,120 Sean Aylmer: yes. Since 1906, there have been 44 referendums, only eight 9 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,309 Sean Aylmer: have passed. I wanted to take a look at the 10 00:00:32,309 --> 00:00:35,248 Sean Aylmer: politics of this, what it means for the Albanese government, 11 00:00:35,489 --> 00:00:38,220 Sean Aylmer: what it means for the Dutton opposition, and the long- 12 00:00:38,220 --> 00:00:42,449 Sean Aylmer: term political impact of the vote. Charles Croucher is the chief political 13 00:00:42,450 --> 00:00:44,850 Sean Aylmer: editor for 9News. Charles, welcome to Fear and Greed. 14 00:00:45,179 --> 00:00:45,629 Charles Croucher: Hi, Sean. 15 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:47,550 Sean Aylmer: I've got to ask you first up, Charles, are you 16 00:00:47,550 --> 00:00:50,039 Sean Aylmer: enjoying the job? It's less than 12 months now. You're 17 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,219 Sean Aylmer: doing a great job, but big shoes to fill too. 18 00:00:53,699 --> 00:00:57,690 Charles Croucher: I appreciate it. Yeah, huge. It's a wonderful job. I'm so 19 00:00:57,690 --> 00:01:01,830 Charles Croucher: lucky having worked in the office under Laurie Oakes, it's 20 00:01:01,830 --> 00:01:04,469 Charles Croucher: always going to be Laurie's job, but then to have 21 00:01:04,469 --> 00:01:08,789 Charles Croucher: Chris Uhlmann there in such pivotal years for our country 22 00:01:08,789 --> 00:01:11,250 Charles Croucher: and for the globe. I've always called Chris one of 23 00:01:11,250 --> 00:01:14,220 Charles Croucher: the great long- term thinkers that Canberra's produced and he 24 00:01:14,220 --> 00:01:16,770 Charles Croucher: was so good over those five years. So yeah, it's 25 00:01:16,770 --> 00:01:20,370 Charles Croucher: a lot to follow those two, but I'm really enjoying it. 26 00:01:20,370 --> 00:01:23,700 Sean Aylmer: Well, you're doing it very well. The yes vote, the no vote tomorrow, 27 00:01:23,700 --> 00:01:26,458 Sean Aylmer: the referendum. Is there any way that yes can win? 28 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:31,319 Charles Croucher: Look, there is. All the polling suggests no will win. 29 00:01:31,350 --> 00:01:34,620 Charles Croucher: If I was betting, I would certainly suggest that no 30 00:01:34,709 --> 00:01:37,530 Charles Croucher: will win. There is a hope, and it is a 31 00:01:38,340 --> 00:01:41,009 Charles Croucher: skerrick of hope among those on the yes side that 32 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,580 Charles Croucher: when people get into the privacy of the ballot box, 33 00:01:44,610 --> 00:01:47,670 Charles Croucher: that the physical act of routing no is too much 34 00:01:47,670 --> 00:01:51,180 Charles Croucher: for them. They want to do what they perceive as 35 00:01:51,180 --> 00:01:54,600 Charles Croucher: being good for Indigenous and First Nations Australians, and therefore 36 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:56,730 Charles Croucher: they vote yes. That is kind of the glimmer of 37 00:01:56,730 --> 00:02:00,330 Charles Croucher: hope. Now, the odds against that are so monumental because 38 00:02:00,570 --> 00:02:04,440 Charles Croucher: not just the polling and consistent polling, both published polls 39 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,020 Charles Croucher: and the internal polls, which in many cases are worse 40 00:02:07,049 --> 00:02:10,200 Charles Croucher: than those published polls. But also that double majority you 41 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,799 Charles Croucher: mentioned, and it's just so hard in Australia to change 42 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:18,269 Charles Croucher: the Constitution because of the majority of states rule, which 43 00:02:18,270 --> 00:02:21,240 Charles Croucher: really means two out of three effectively. So four out 44 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,459 Charles Croucher: of six. So you need two- thirds of the states 45 00:02:23,459 --> 00:02:26,190 Charles Croucher: to say yes, four out of the six states. That 46 00:02:26,490 --> 00:02:29,669 Charles Croucher: itself is difficult and given the margins although they're going 47 00:02:29,669 --> 00:02:34,320 Charles Croucher: to be so big in WA and particularly Queensland. Even 48 00:02:34,710 --> 00:02:37,440 Charles Croucher: with the four states, the yes side are going to 49 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,089 Charles Croucher: need to run up the score in New South Wales 50 00:02:39,089 --> 00:02:41,639 Charles Croucher: and Victoria and then try and scrape over the line 51 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,619 Charles Croucher: in South Australia, it's all hard. 52 00:02:43,770 --> 00:02:44,010 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 53 00:02:44,070 --> 00:02:47,250 Charles Croucher: Right? So there's lots against it. Is it possible? Yes. 54 00:02:47,700 --> 00:02:49,110 Charles Croucher: Is it likely? Absolutely not. 55 00:02:49,530 --> 00:02:52,500 Sean Aylmer: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has put a lot into this 56 00:02:52,530 --> 00:02:56,429 Sean Aylmer: from election night on. Will it be damaging for him 57 00:02:56,429 --> 00:02:57,840 Sean Aylmer: if it's defeaten? 58 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:00,630 Charles Croucher: So two schools of thought here, I don't like doing 59 00:03:00,630 --> 00:03:02,040 Charles Croucher: that on one hand and on the other, but I'll 60 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,100 Charles Croucher: do it. The first is that, and certainly one being 61 00:03:05,100 --> 00:03:07,168 Charles Croucher: pushed by the coalition is that this is a rejection 62 00:03:07,169 --> 00:03:10,649 Charles Croucher: of the Prime Minister's vision of the nation. Anthony Albanese 63 00:03:10,650 --> 00:03:12,660 Charles Croucher: has certainly made it very clear this is something he 64 00:03:12,660 --> 00:03:16,169 Charles Croucher: wants. He mentioned it in his speech on election night, 65 00:03:16,169 --> 00:03:17,969 Charles Croucher: the night he was elected, this is one of the 66 00:03:17,969 --> 00:03:22,050 Charles Croucher: first things he mentioned. And if the polls are to 67 00:03:22,050 --> 00:03:24,300 Charles Croucher: be believed and are correct, then the nation will have 68 00:03:24,300 --> 00:03:28,500 Charles Croucher: overwhelmingly rejected that tomorrow. That's an argument that was used 69 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:31,980 Charles Croucher: against David Cameron in the Brexit election, and he stood down 70 00:03:31,980 --> 00:03:35,189 Charles Croucher: that afternoon. Now, I don't expect Anthony Albanese to do 71 00:03:35,190 --> 00:03:37,830 Charles Croucher: that, but this is damaging for him. The other school 72 00:03:37,830 --> 00:03:42,480 Charles Croucher: of thought is that he has gone to the election 73 00:03:43,230 --> 00:03:45,630 Charles Croucher: saying he would do this. He has now done that. 74 00:03:45,809 --> 00:03:48,059 Charles Croucher: He has kept his word and he can move on 75 00:03:48,059 --> 00:03:51,120 Charles Croucher: and get back to the biggest issue, which remains far 76 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,250 Charles Croucher: and away, cost of living. He always say the main 77 00:03:53,250 --> 00:03:54,870 Charles Croucher: thing is to keep the main thing the main thing. 78 00:03:54,870 --> 00:03:57,300 Charles Croucher: Well, the main thing is cost of living. The Prime 79 00:03:57,300 --> 00:04:00,090 Charles Croucher: Minister can then go to the public and say, " We 80 00:04:00,090 --> 00:04:02,819 Charles Croucher: did what we said we would do. We will adhere 81 00:04:02,820 --> 00:04:05,700 Charles Croucher: to the will of the people." And that will be the end of 82 00:04:05,700 --> 00:04:08,849 Charles Croucher: this. The only thing with that is that I think 83 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,639 Charles Croucher: that is the more likely scenario that Anthony Albanese will 84 00:04:11,940 --> 00:04:14,790 Charles Croucher: be able to make that argument, but his brand within 85 00:04:14,790 --> 00:04:17,490 Charles Croucher: the Labor Party is damaged. There are those in cabinet 86 00:04:17,490 --> 00:04:21,869 Charles Croucher: that fought against this version of the Voice and notable 87 00:04:21,870 --> 00:04:25,650 Charles Croucher: members of cabinet as well. I think the Prime Minister's 88 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:30,540 Charles Croucher: grip on cabinet, grip on the party, this understanding that 89 00:04:30,540 --> 00:04:33,300 Charles Croucher: he knew what was best for the party and where 90 00:04:33,300 --> 00:04:36,120 Charles Croucher: Australia was standing, that will be damaged by this, particularly 91 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,500 Charles Croucher: if the result turns out to be like 60\ 40, which 92 00:04:40,500 --> 00:04:43,589 Charles Croucher: would be just a disaster for the yes side or 93 00:04:43,589 --> 00:04:47,069 Charles Croucher: worse, then that's a real rejection of this proposition. So 94 00:04:47,490 --> 00:04:49,260 Charles Croucher: I certainly don't think it's going to be the end 95 00:04:49,260 --> 00:04:51,539 Charles Croucher: of Anthony Albanese by any stretch of the imagination. There's 96 00:04:51,540 --> 00:04:53,880 Charles Croucher: too many other things that are happening right now that 97 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,570 Charles Croucher: can refocus the Prime Minister, but this will take some 98 00:04:57,570 --> 00:05:00,210 Charles Croucher: backoff in publicly and certainly within that cabinet Raymond and 99 00:05:00,210 --> 00:05:01,410 Charles Croucher: within the Labor Party as well. 100 00:05:02,428 --> 00:05:06,240 Sean Aylmer: What about Peter Dutton, even short- term and long- term 101 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:07,050 Sean Aylmer: for Peter Dutton? 102 00:05:07,650 --> 00:05:11,910 Charles Croucher: Short- term, you like to win. The Liberal Party nationally 103 00:05:11,910 --> 00:05:15,178 Charles Croucher: have been short of victories recently, even by- elections have 104 00:05:15,178 --> 00:05:18,448 Charles Croucher: been a pretty tough slog for them. So if Peter 105 00:05:18,450 --> 00:05:21,479 Charles Croucher: Dutton can guide this to a no- vote, he will 106 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,378 Charles Croucher: certainly take some of the credit. And rightfully, David Littleproud 107 00:05:25,380 --> 00:05:27,900 Charles Croucher: before him was the first one saying the Nats had 108 00:05:27,900 --> 00:05:31,530 Charles Croucher: say no. And Peter Dutton, who's again, it's been a 109 00:05:32,070 --> 00:05:35,368 Charles Croucher: pretty rough campaign for everyone, and he certainly has been 110 00:05:35,370 --> 00:05:38,459 Charles Croucher: in the thick of it. Long- term, it is interesting 111 00:05:38,460 --> 00:05:41,850 Charles Croucher: to see exactly how this plays out. That idea of 112 00:05:42,089 --> 00:05:46,890 Charles Croucher: negativity surrounds Peter Dutton and has long been associated when 113 00:05:46,890 --> 00:05:50,400 Charles Croucher: you talk to some of the more qualitative polling around 114 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,820 Charles Croucher: him, you know that Labor know it because just after 115 00:05:53,820 --> 00:05:57,419 Charles Croucher: the election, Tanya Plibersek, be it a slip of the tongue or 116 00:05:57,420 --> 00:05:59,819 Charles Croucher: I think more a calculated risk called him Lord Voldemort. 117 00:06:00,449 --> 00:06:03,270 Charles Croucher: And there was that idea, she apologized for that, but I 118 00:06:03,270 --> 00:06:06,360 Charles Croucher: think that was planting the seed before the apology came. 119 00:06:06,930 --> 00:06:10,529 Charles Croucher: So whether that hurts him in the long run, the 120 00:06:10,529 --> 00:06:13,080 Charles Croucher: thing that the Liberal Party and the coalition more the 121 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,320 Charles Croucher: point, because she's a Nat have gained, is Senator Jacinta Price, who has emerged 122 00:06:17,010 --> 00:06:19,618 Charles Croucher: as almost the flag bearer for this one. No one 123 00:06:19,620 --> 00:06:22,260 Charles Croucher: will have their stocks rise higher this referendum than her. 124 00:06:23,070 --> 00:06:26,279 Charles Croucher: She's managed to get herself into cabinet through her hard 125 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,969 Charles Croucher: work on the referendum that caused Peter Dutton to effectively 126 00:06:29,969 --> 00:06:32,488 Charles Croucher: ignore the coalition agreement because there are now too many 127 00:06:32,490 --> 00:06:36,479 Charles Croucher: Nats in cabinet, or a disproportionate number of Nats in 128 00:06:37,379 --> 00:06:39,750 Charles Croucher: the shadow cabinet. So it'll be interesting to see what 129 00:06:39,750 --> 00:06:42,510 Charles Croucher: her trajectory becomes, and that's the one that I think 130 00:06:42,779 --> 00:06:44,880 Charles Croucher: is bubbling away and I think is the most interesting 131 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,520 Charles Croucher: story that will come out of this. And then it 132 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,240 Charles Croucher: depends when the first Closing the Gap Report comes out 133 00:06:51,330 --> 00:06:55,589 Charles Croucher: and there's nothing to suggest that those results will get 134 00:06:55,589 --> 00:06:58,500 Charles Croucher: any better overnight. And the fact that the no- side 135 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,190 Charles Croucher: if they are successful, were successful will mean that it'd 136 00:07:02,190 --> 00:07:04,740 Charles Croucher: be easy to blame any of the failures on those that 137 00:07:04,740 --> 00:07:07,800 Charles Croucher: campaign for no. Even though there's no guarantee that that is 138 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:09,509 Charles Croucher: the way it would have worked out had the Voice 139 00:07:09,509 --> 00:07:11,609 Charles Croucher: got through, or if the Voice gets through, things will 140 00:07:11,609 --> 00:07:14,400 Charles Croucher: improve. It's a pretty easy line to draw as well. 141 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,330 Charles Croucher: So really there are long- term implications of this vote 142 00:07:18,330 --> 00:07:20,580 Charles Croucher: as there are for any referendum. And of course, I 143 00:07:20,580 --> 00:07:24,179 Charles Croucher: guess the biggest thing becomes what happens to Indigenous Australians 144 00:07:24,179 --> 00:07:27,659 Charles Croucher: and the disequalities of the lack of equality that currently 145 00:07:27,660 --> 00:07:31,260 Charles Croucher: exists, particularly in some of those really important measures, life 146 00:07:31,260 --> 00:07:37,590 Charles Croucher: expectancy, finishing education, entrepreneurship, infant mortality, that really has to 147 00:07:37,590 --> 00:07:40,260 Charles Croucher: be the focus for both yes and no campaigners once 148 00:07:40,530 --> 00:07:42,660 Charles Croucher: all the calories that have been spent on this referendum 149 00:07:42,660 --> 00:07:43,109 Charles Croucher: is finished. 150 00:07:43,530 --> 00:07:45,419 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Charles. We'll be back in a minute. 151 00:07:51,510 --> 00:07:54,480 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Charles Croucher, chief political editor 152 00:07:54,660 --> 00:08:00,119 Sean Aylmer: for 9News. Okay, let's move away from the Voice. Cost 153 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,999 Sean Aylmer: of living, we will get our focus back on that. 154 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:04,619 Sean Aylmer: It looks like interest rates have peaked or are at 155 00:08:04,709 --> 00:08:09,330 Sean Aylmer: near peaking. Certainly energy prices given the Middle East, they're 156 00:08:09,330 --> 00:08:11,910 Sean Aylmer: not likely to come down anytime soon, so people are 157 00:08:11,910 --> 00:08:14,609 Sean Aylmer: spending more on gas, insurance premiums are going up. There's 158 00:08:14,610 --> 00:08:16,830 Sean Aylmer: plenty in all that. How does that play for the 159 00:08:16,830 --> 00:08:18,510 Sean Aylmer: Prime Minister, how does he handle that? 160 00:08:19,049 --> 00:08:22,350 Charles Croucher: Look, that's still the biggest issue. Every focus group, be 161 00:08:22,350 --> 00:08:26,580 Charles Croucher: it polling done for political parties, polling done for television 162 00:08:26,580 --> 00:08:29,490 Charles Croucher: networks to peel the covers back a bit or otherwise, 163 00:08:29,790 --> 00:08:32,220 Charles Croucher: will say that cost of living is the biggest issue. 164 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,208 Charles Croucher: And we have gone through the peak of those houses 165 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,849 Charles Croucher: coming off that mortgage cliff that rolled over from fixed 166 00:08:38,849 --> 00:08:41,999 Charles Croucher: rates, but there are still hundreds of thousands more that 167 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,880 Charles Croucher: will do that and things will keep getting tighter. And 168 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,790 Charles Croucher: you mentioned petrol prices. I mean, they're well over $ 2 169 00:08:48,210 --> 00:08:51,330 Charles Croucher: in some places, $ 2. 20 that impacts, it's a scoreboard 170 00:08:51,330 --> 00:08:54,599 Charles Croucher: that very few can control, but that will always be 171 00:08:54,599 --> 00:08:57,930 Charles Croucher: there. I guess the silver lining, if there is one 172 00:08:58,020 --> 00:09:00,629 Charles Croucher: for the Prime Minister, and particularly for Jim Chalmers, is 173 00:09:00,629 --> 00:09:02,580 Charles Croucher: that they've got through that budget, they've banked a lot 174 00:09:02,580 --> 00:09:05,820 Charles Croucher: of the money. We're back in surplus, albeit one that 175 00:09:05,820 --> 00:09:10,619 Charles Croucher: I suspect might last. One more budget cycle, maybe two 176 00:09:10,620 --> 00:09:15,179 Charles Croucher: before those underwhelming or overwhelming angers on the economy start 177 00:09:15,179 --> 00:09:18,750 Charles Croucher: really kicking in. And stage three tax cuts are coming. 178 00:09:18,750 --> 00:09:22,230 Charles Croucher: So there is some relief on the horizon. That's not 179 00:09:22,230 --> 00:09:26,160 Charles Croucher: until July next year though. So in the meantime, everyone's 180 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:27,630 Charles Croucher: got to get through a Christmas. We've got to get 181 00:09:27,630 --> 00:09:32,520 Charles Croucher: through a summer of heating and cooling and surviving what 182 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:34,770 Charles Croucher: looks like being a hot summer. So that is the 183 00:09:34,770 --> 00:09:37,530 Charles Croucher: main issue. That's going to be the biggest one, and 184 00:09:37,530 --> 00:09:40,140 Charles Croucher: it really is the one that I think will define 185 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,970 Charles Croucher: this first term of the Albanese government. And certainly the 186 00:09:44,970 --> 00:09:47,340 Charles Croucher: Liberal Party will try and make it a referendum on 187 00:09:47,340 --> 00:09:50,939 Charles Croucher: that cost of living issue at the next election, whenever 188 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,730 Charles Croucher: that is held. I think back to Ronald Reagan's line about, " 189 00:09:54,270 --> 00:09:55,800 Charles Croucher: Is it easier to go to the store and buy 190 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,290 Charles Croucher: things than it was four years ago?" That was an 191 00:09:58,290 --> 00:10:02,848 Charles Croucher: effective argument in 1980 or 1979. It'll be an effective argument in 2024 or 192 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,159 Charles Croucher: 2025 as well. 193 00:10:05,759 --> 00:10:07,319 Sean Aylmer: Okay. The Middle East, they just want to talk a 194 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,770 Sean Aylmer: little bit about that. The federal government and Anthony Albanese 195 00:10:10,770 --> 00:10:13,710 Sean Aylmer: particularly has kind of strode the world stage incredibly well, 196 00:10:13,710 --> 00:10:16,800 Sean Aylmer: surprisingly well for many people. Middle East is a total 197 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,890 Sean Aylmer: different kettle of fish. At the moment there's sort of 198 00:10:19,890 --> 00:10:23,759 Sean Aylmer: the politicization of it, comments by Dutton, and then response 199 00:10:23,759 --> 00:10:27,450 Sean Aylmer: by Albanese. Do you think the parties will come together 200 00:10:27,450 --> 00:10:30,389 Sean Aylmer: on this because you and I personally think it's beyond 201 00:10:30,450 --> 00:10:36,360 Sean Aylmer: politics? It's a crisis. It's a human crisis. And how 202 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:37,050 Sean Aylmer: do they handle it? 203 00:10:37,170 --> 00:10:42,479 Charles Croucher: Well, the politicization at this time is really bad politics. It's 204 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,559 Charles Croucher: grubby, it's unnecessary, and it causes harm and causes stress 205 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:51,510 Charles Croucher: for those Australians in particular, and obviously, people of Jewish 206 00:10:51,510 --> 00:10:54,660 Charles Croucher: faith. But those that have loved ones, still in Israel, 207 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,910 Charles Croucher: loved ones, or people they know that may have been 208 00:10:56,910 --> 00:10:59,730 Charles Croucher: caught up in this, or maybe still being held hostage, 209 00:10:59,730 --> 00:11:02,399 Charles Croucher: or those that hotspots around the world where this could 210 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,490 Charles Croucher: go on. There is a time to take the temperature 211 00:11:05,490 --> 00:11:09,090 Charles Croucher: out of this, particularly domestically. Australia can present a united 212 00:11:09,090 --> 00:11:12,090 Charles Croucher: front that shows we can support all of those that 213 00:11:12,090 --> 00:11:14,670 Charles Croucher: are struggling at the moment and they're going through such a time 214 00:11:14,670 --> 00:11:20,339 Charles Croucher: of fear and of concern and anger, rightfully so. When 215 00:11:20,610 --> 00:11:23,400 Charles Croucher: Hamas was declared a terrible organization by the Morrison government 216 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:28,830 Charles Croucher: in March last year, Laborers kept that definition and categorization. 217 00:11:29,130 --> 00:11:32,880 Charles Croucher: And the fact that the protests and those horrible scenes 218 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:34,980 Charles Croucher: we saw at the Opera House have managed to divide 219 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,578 Charles Croucher: the country so easily, and the politic and those in 220 00:11:38,580 --> 00:11:42,809 Charles Croucher: the political class so easily is probably concerning more than 221 00:11:42,809 --> 00:11:45,210 Charles Croucher: anything else. Chief politicking at a time like this is 222 00:11:45,210 --> 00:11:48,270 Charles Croucher: horrific. The leaders of America and of Europe have managed 223 00:11:48,270 --> 00:11:51,990 Charles Croucher: to unite in their approach to this. Australia should be 224 00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:54,900 Charles Croucher: in lockstep as well. Because all the while there's going 225 00:11:54,900 --> 00:11:59,160 Charles Croucher: to be concerned families in Australia and in our allies, 226 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,858 Charles Croucher: and there's going to be more innocent civilians that are 227 00:12:01,860 --> 00:12:05,250 Charles Croucher: killed as this all plays out. So I hope that 228 00:12:05,250 --> 00:12:09,150 Charles Croucher: after what's pretty cheap point scoring early on, the temperature 229 00:12:09,179 --> 00:12:12,839 Charles Croucher: here can be taken out and a clear and consistent 230 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,689 Charles Croucher: and resolute response can be given from Australia and the 231 00:12:15,690 --> 00:12:16,260 Charles Croucher: rest of the world. 232 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:18,600 Sean Aylmer: Charles, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 233 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:19,290 Charles Croucher: Anytime. 234 00:12:19,830 --> 00:12:22,980 Sean Aylmer: That's Charles Croucher, chief political editor for 9News. This is 235 00:12:22,980 --> 00:12:25,260 Sean Aylmer: the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. We're not taking a 236 00:12:25,260 --> 00:12:27,449 Sean Aylmer: position on yes, or no, but we do want everyone 237 00:12:27,450 --> 00:12:29,639 Sean Aylmer: to vote and we want them to vote in an 238 00:12:29,730 --> 00:12:32,790 Sean Aylmer: informed manner. That's what we ask. Join us every morning 239 00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:34,708 Sean Aylmer: for the full episode of Fear and Greed. Australia's most 240 00:12:34,708 --> 00:12:37,588 Sean Aylmer: popular business podcast. I'm Sean Elmer. Enjoy your day.