Speaker 1: Well, hi everyone, Welcome to conversations. My guest today is
Speaker 1: a Vietnam veteran. Roger Hogman served in Vietnam in nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty eight sixty nine, and he now lives over on
Speaker 1: York Peninsula and was a little in there. He was
Speaker 1: a little bit indifferent when he came home of having
Speaker 1: served in Vietnam and the treatment that he received soldiers
Speaker 1: from previous wars. But in recent years he's been motivated
Speaker 1: to recognize that there are other veterans over there who
Speaker 1: haven't been properly recognized. So he's dreamt of this project
Speaker 1: at edith Burg on the York Peninsula, and sometimes dreams
Speaker 1: become reality, and we'll find out all about that the
Speaker 1: Vietnam War Memorial Walk over there at edith Burg. Roger Hogman,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the program.
Speaker 2: How are you really good? Thanks Graham, good to be here.
Speaker 1: It's an amazing thing you've done. You've established this memorial
Speaker 1: walk between edith Burg and Quebek. Now I should know
Speaker 1: that I've been been to Edinsburgh, I've driven through Kabao.
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about them, but what's your association
Speaker 1: with the area.
Speaker 2: We lived in a motorhome for eight and a half years,
Speaker 2: and we thought that New York Peninsula was a good
Speaker 2: place to finish up, so we retired to the York Peninsula.
Speaker 2: I like fishing, there's good fishing. So that's basically how
Speaker 2: it started.
Speaker 1: What happened to the motor home?
Speaker 2: Unfortunately we've still got it.
Speaker 1: You just still live in it.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no. We bought we bought a place
Speaker 2: on a very old house on York Peninsula and were
Speaker 2: gradually re storing it.
Speaker 1: Oh, how wonderful does that sound?
Speaker 2: The original part of the building was put up in
Speaker 2: eighteen forty seven.
Speaker 1: Wow, we might come to that in time. Now you're
Speaker 1: in New Zealander, ki No, you're not well. How come
Speaker 1: in and serve with the New Zealand Army.
Speaker 2: It was an ANZAC battalion. It was four Roar and ZAID.
Speaker 2: So we had three rifle companies Bravo, Charlie and Delda,
Speaker 2: and then we had two Kiwi companies which was Victor
Speaker 2: and Whiskey. So there were actually five rifle companies in
Speaker 2: four or r as they were in two and six.
Speaker 1: Okay, so did were you you controlled by New Zealand
Speaker 1: and CEOs or Kiwi and CEOs or officers.
Speaker 2: No, we tried to avoid them out in the field.
Speaker 2: They were great fun in back in base, but out
Speaker 2: in field, no, we would prefer to be as far
Speaker 2: away as we possibly could.
Speaker 1: Because they were wild, or because they were a bit reckless.
Speaker 2: They had a different method of clearing an area than
Speaker 2: the Australian soldiers. They used to put four hundred rounds
Speaker 2: through the machine gun and then listen. And we've decided
Speaker 2: that we didn't like being close to that.
Speaker 1: So they fire off four belts of ammunition into the
Speaker 1: into a scrub and then.
Speaker 2: Change, change the red hot barrel, put a new barrel in,
Speaker 2: a new set of four hundred rounds, new four belts,
Speaker 2: all linked together. And if there was another noise, well,
Speaker 2: same same procedure.
Speaker 1: Did you then sweep through the area.
Speaker 2: I don't know what they did. We were never there, so.
Speaker 1: You didn't fragnize with much at all.
Speaker 2: Only in camp, back back in the Dad or down
Speaker 2: in Vuktow they were great. But yeah, not out in
Speaker 2: the not out where it was dangerous.
Speaker 1: So where were you born? Where'd you grow up?
Speaker 2: I was born in Adelaide. My parents both long Their
Speaker 2: families go right back to the early settlement of South Australia.
Speaker 2: They originated in Adelaide, went to Perry and then my
Speaker 2: mum and dad returned to Adelaide where I was born
Speaker 2: up down at Malvern.
Speaker 1: So so when you say early settlement, how early.
Speaker 2: Eighteen thirty nine through to eighteen forty two.
Speaker 1: So three years after the first landing you had Hogbin's here. Yes,
Speaker 1: did you research that history?
Speaker 2: Yes, we've got a very good family tree of that.
Speaker 2: It goes back to the Reverend George Hogben who was
Speaker 2: a Baptist preacher and he had two nephews with him.
Speaker 2: They they came out here and he was recognized. He's
Speaker 2: performed a lot of marriages in that very early part
Speaker 2: of the settlement.
Speaker 1: He was a man of religion.
Speaker 2: Yes he was.
Speaker 1: Did that flow through to the family.
Speaker 2: Not particularly? No, having said that my brother is a preacher,
Speaker 2: so I guess there's some of it.
Speaker 1: Still definitely hasn't it. So he grew up at Melbourne.
Speaker 1: What was what was the malvin of your childhood?
Speaker 2: Like great place? The end of Adelaide was Mitcham, which
Speaker 2: was only a mile and a half three kilometers away
Speaker 2: the Freedom. We would ride to Glenelg for a swim
Speaker 2: on our push bikes. People wouldn't understand now, But the
Speaker 2: mate and I used to do a lot of fishing
Speaker 2: in the West Beach sand dunes.
Speaker 1: Fishing in the sand hills.
Speaker 2: No, sorry, I meant shooting.
Speaker 1: Shooting.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, we just go shooting in the sandhills. We'd
Speaker 2: ride our push bikes down to West Beach. There was
Speaker 2: no airport there in those days.
Speaker 1: How did you get your rifle down there?
Speaker 2: Slung over me? Two young blakes riding from cross roads
Speaker 2: down cross roads and heading off to the How would
Speaker 2: you have been there fifteen sixteen.
Speaker 1: And you've got a twenty two rifle And it was Dad,
Speaker 1: and what you after? Rabbits?
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, yeah, just rabbits. It was a good
Speaker 2: place to go and get a couple of rabbits. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's good fun.
Speaker 1: So what ambition did you have in terms of leaving school?
Speaker 2: I was told by the woodwork teacher at on the
Speaker 2: High school, mister Tulk, that I should never go anywhere
Speaker 2: near wood. So I left school at fifteen and Dad
Speaker 2: said to me, what are you going to do? And
Speaker 2: I said, I'm coming to you to work with you.
Speaker 2: Dad was a very good carpenter. He was a craftsman's
Speaker 2: craftsman carpenter. So I became a carpenter.
Speaker 1: What did you What did the old school teacher think
Speaker 1: of that?
Speaker 2: I never met him again. I would have loved to
Speaker 2: have met him, because I went on. When I went
Speaker 2: to Vietnam, I went in, I completed my apprenticeship. When
Speaker 2: I came back out, I didn't didn't put my enrollment off.
Speaker 2: I completed my apprenticeship, became a carpenter with the same company,
Speaker 2: and became the building supervisor three years later. So twenty
Speaker 2: three years of age or less than that. At twenty
Speaker 2: three years of the age, I was a building supervisor
Speaker 2: for a company turning off sixty hourses a year.
Speaker 1: Wow, we were a good carpenter, come on, not particular.
Speaker 1: So the school teacher maybe was right.
Speaker 2: The school teacher was probably right. I was a proficient carpenter,
Speaker 2: but I was mentored by some extremely good people building
Speaker 2: inspectors my own employer, and became a proficient handler of
Speaker 2: staff and capable of coordinating work. Over that.
Speaker 1: Do you think we're seeing the same degree of proficiency
Speaker 1: with tradesmen these days.
Speaker 2: My last work was as a training coordinator with a
Speaker 2: register training organization, and the apprenticeships are totally degraded. What
Speaker 2: took us five years to get to the stage where
Speaker 2: we were beginning to learn about the building industry is
Speaker 2: now cut back. An apprenticeship doing a carpentry. We'll have
Speaker 2: carpentry and in brackets rufa or foundations or whatever. So
Speaker 2: they're divided into very tiny segments. So it's changed dramatically,
Speaker 2: and I'm not impressed.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're working as a carpenter, then your number
Speaker 1: gets drawn out and if you go into the army,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that when we come back. Roger Hogben
Speaker 1: is my guest, Folks, Vietnam veteran who's been involved in
Speaker 1: an amazing project over the Edithburgh on the York Peninsula.
Speaker 1: All about that when we come back. Welcome back to conversations.
Speaker 1: Everybody in the studio with me is Roger Hogben, a
Speaker 1: carpenter by trade, gets called up and goes off to Vietnam.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that. He's been involved in a significant
Speaker 1: project over there on York Peninsula which has come to
Speaker 1: fruition and will come to fruition in August this year,
Speaker 1: August the eighteenth, the Vietnam War Memorial Walk. But there's
Speaker 1: so much to talk about. You get drafted. What was
Speaker 1: the emotion like?
Speaker 2: What would you?
Speaker 1: What are you thinking?
Speaker 2: Look if we were young and silly, it was a
Speaker 2: great advance, It was a huge adventure.
Speaker 1: How long did it last? The sense of adventure, though,
Speaker 1: I had the same feeling, but evaporate after two days
Speaker 1: of recruit training.
Speaker 2: They said about the recruit training, it would make men
Speaker 2: out of boys and boys out of men. I think
Speaker 2: you had to survive that. You had to have a
Speaker 2: very strong values in your own life. And I found
Speaker 2: it interesting more more than anything else. I'd never been
Speaker 2: dealt with that way. Standing in line at a inspection
Speaker 2: and having the corporal cut the buttons off the back
Speaker 2: pockety of the trousers hanging, handing it to the sergeant
Speaker 2: and saying this soldier is undressed came with a bit
Speaker 2: of a shock. It was quite a different era. It
Speaker 2: would never happen that way today, But in that era,
Speaker 2: I guess that was to some extent seen as an
Speaker 2: easy way to enforce people to do to follow the rules.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've often contemplated this. I mean, you're talking about
Speaker 1: that's just making boys out of men. With some everyone
Speaker 1: is so different. The brutality with which they tried to
Speaker 1: enforce discipline. Some people weren't just they weren't wired for that.
Speaker 1: And I don't know how many times. I don't know
Speaker 1: what the suicide rate would have been, but there's definitely
Speaker 1: would have been a consideration. I look back on those
Speaker 1: few weeks of recruit training with such disdain that those
Speaker 1: guys jumped up Lance corporals and corporals could be.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: We had to copy it, and we did, and we
Speaker 1: did cop it, but it was just so disrespectful.
Speaker 2: Absolutely it was. It was by today standards, absolutely disgraceful.
Speaker 2: It was disgraceful then. But there were no options for
Speaker 2: us as recruits, regardless I would think, whether we're National Service,
Speaker 2: whether we were regular recruits, there was no option. Once
Speaker 2: you're in there, you did as they did and as
Speaker 2: they said. It's interesting about the Lance corporal. After I'd
Speaker 2: been to Vietnam and came back, my brother in law
Speaker 2: marched out of Puckerpaniel and I went down to see
Speaker 2: him march out, and I was hauled up. I had
Speaker 2: a red lanyard on my right shoulder, and he yelled
Speaker 2: out at me, Hey, soldier, what are you doing. We're
Speaker 2: in your lanyard. I turned around and had ribbons, and
Speaker 2: he nearly went through the bitchmen.
Speaker 1: I see how Lance corporal tried.
Speaker 2: To Yes, Lance corporal tried to jump on me because
Speaker 2: recruits prior to the march out were not allowed to
Speaker 2: wear the lanyards. I, on the other hand, was a
Speaker 2: return serviceman, which came as one terrible shock to this
Speaker 2: poor young lance corporal who was seen as one stage
Speaker 2: below God.
Speaker 1: Now your march out of recruit training, did you nominate
Speaker 1: a call given the fact you had a trade? Normally
Speaker 1: they make good use of guys with trades.
Speaker 2: Yes, they do, This was the message we got. So
Speaker 2: I applied for engineers, which would be the obvious thing
Speaker 2: to do. But of course, as with ninety percent of
Speaker 2: the people who applied for to be working in their
Speaker 2: own trade, I finished up in infantry. Sometimes I wondered
Speaker 2: whether it was because as trades we knew more than
Speaker 2: some of the junior officers who were running those units.
Speaker 2: I certainly got into trouble for that. In Vietnam, I
Speaker 2: suggest the way they were pouring concrete was not quite
Speaker 2: the best way to do it.
Speaker 1: So if you go to core training to learn how
Speaker 1: to be an infantry soldier in a bit more Where
Speaker 1: did you Where did you do that?
Speaker 2: That was Singletent, Wales, New South Wales really interesting. Having
Speaker 2: done a lot of rabbit and kangaroo shooting over my
Speaker 2: younger years, I was interested in how the rifles work
Speaker 2: and I couldn't make marksmen. You couldn't really interesting just
Speaker 2: the totally different total difference of the weapons that were using.
Speaker 2: But having said that, it was a very interesting time.
Speaker 2: That was it was far more oriented towards training for
Speaker 2: what you were going to be doing in future, which
Speaker 2: made it totally different to recruit training, which was just
Speaker 2: discipline and enforcing rules. I found infantry training to be
Speaker 2: much more interesting.
Speaker 1: Did you go over with the battalion or did you
Speaker 1: join them as a reinforcement?
Speaker 2: I joined as a reinforcement through Rio wing it at Engelburn.
Speaker 1: What was that? Like me? You haven't trained with these
Speaker 1: guys and you just you just sort of dropped into them.
Speaker 2: Look, I think that the Australian Army training in that
Speaker 2: era was exceptionally good. If you were trade trained into
Speaker 2: a corps, you were given all of the all of
Speaker 2: the information that you would require. We fired everything, I
Speaker 2: think except for the rocket propel armored armory. They can't
Speaker 2: remember which one it was. We didn't fire those, but
Speaker 2: we fired pretty much everything else from grenades to handguns
Speaker 2: through that training.
Speaker 1: The RPG was the one that the plastic onages extended.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was that was the one. A bit expensive
Speaker 2: to play with.
Speaker 1: They didn't even look like a weapon, didn't They looked
Speaker 1: like a toy bit of down That's what it looked like.
Speaker 2: However, they did a lot of damage, but the look
Speaker 2: we were exceptionally well trained and by the time we
Speaker 2: got to Ingleburn. At Engelburn we did a lot more
Speaker 2: weapons training. Is the security on us was much easier.
Speaker 2: We were allowed to leave camp when we wanted. We
Speaker 2: had to be there all the time during daytime, all
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff, but we had a lot more
Speaker 2: free time in My parents never knew, but I volunteered
Speaker 2: for Vietnam. To me, if I was going to get
Speaker 2: anything out of that two years, it would be war service.
Speaker 1: War service or the War Service Liane.
Speaker 2: War Service loan. There is a difference.
Speaker 1: It was good for a while, it lasted.
Speaker 2: By the time I wanted to do it, I was
Speaker 2: told that I was that I was certainly had the
Speaker 2: met the requirements for it, but I couldn't do it
Speaker 2: because I already owned a couple of investment properties and
Speaker 2: therefore was ineligible for a war service.
Speaker 1: Loan, so it should be there.
Speaker 2: So it worked hard for them.
Speaker 1: So I guess you flew over into Vietnam.
Speaker 2: Yes, flew over with the QUANTUS people, landed in Singapore
Speaker 2: for refueling. Singapore was really interesting because we before we
Speaker 2: left the plane or before we got on the plane,
Speaker 2: we were told to have a civilian shirt, preferably bright,
Speaker 2: bright colored, and so we took off our army shirts
Speaker 2: and put on civilian shirts. We were ushered into the
Speaker 2: Singapore terminal, which wasn't a particularly interesting place at that stage,
Speaker 2: not like it is today, and we were put behind
Speaker 2: a rope barrier with armed guards, and nobody knew we
Speaker 2: were in the army because we had We all had
Speaker 2: the same khaki strides on, shiny shiny boots and short haircuts,
Speaker 2: so we wouldn't have been obvious with it because we
Speaker 2: had wonderful flowering shirts.
Speaker 1: Obviously, don't join the unit.
Speaker 2: It went through one IRU, the Australian Reinforcement Unit at
Speaker 2: vun At Nui Dat, and that was an acclimatization period, So.
Speaker 1: Doing patrols and.
Speaker 2: A little bit of patrol work just outside the wire
Speaker 2: and back in again. Lost a mate in that first
Speaker 2: couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just doing just a just a what a contact. No.
Speaker 2: No, we were coming back in and we'd gone outside
Speaker 2: the wire, through the out into the scrub, did a circuit,
Speaker 2: and we were coming back at the next entry point
Speaker 2: and they spotted a mine of some sort. Whether it
Speaker 2: was I've got no idea what it was. But the
Speaker 2: corporal and two soldiers stopped and they were supposed to
Speaker 2: build a pyramid of sticks to market so that the
Speaker 2: engineers could go out and blow it away. But instead
Speaker 2: of building the pyramid adjacent to the explosive, they built
Speaker 2: it over it, and it collapsed onto the explosive. And
Speaker 2: my mate was killed at that, just instantly. He was
Speaker 2: putting sticks over it.
Speaker 1: And he's barely been there days.
Speaker 2: Only Oh maybe, I guess we would have been there
Speaker 2: ten days. Yeah, just frightening stuff. I often wondered about
Speaker 2: his parents.
Speaker 1: So it's national service and goes over it two weeks nationaler.
Speaker 2: That one ira was both National service and.
Speaker 1: Regular Roger Hogman, it's my guest, Folks, we're talking about
Speaker 1: his time in Vietnam. But he's done an amazing job
Speaker 1: in recent years establishing the Vietnam War Memorial Walk over
Speaker 1: there at Edithburg on New York Peninsula. And there'll be
Speaker 1: a big reveal of that, I guess and a big
Speaker 1: opening of that on August the eighteenth, twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: So back shortly, we are talking with Roger Hogman. Folks.
Speaker 1: If you just tuned in, Roger's a Vietnam veteran, retired
Speaker 1: after touring around Australia and a significant career. Has started
Speaker 1: off as a tradee, got called up Whent to Vietnam.
Speaker 1: He's established or been one of the parties who's established
Speaker 1: the Vietnam War Memorial walk over there at Edithburg. But
Speaker 1: if you just tuned in, he's gone up to Vietnam.
Speaker 1: He's gone in as a reinforcement. You were a bit
Speaker 1: of a You're a little bit lucky because you're the
Speaker 1: unitude joined came came home not that long after you.
Speaker 1: After you got there.
Speaker 2: Four RII was due to come home, and both the
Speaker 2: sixth and the seventh intakes of National Servicemen were due
Speaker 2: to get out of the Army before the army, before
Speaker 2: the unit reformed. So their expectation was one hundred and
Speaker 2: thirty soldiers to reform a battalion that should have been
Speaker 2: around six hundred people. So anybody that joined, with the
Speaker 2: exception of officers in the latter half of that period,
Speaker 2: came home with the battalion. So I joined them, and
Speaker 2: I came home with them on the Hma Sydney, the
Speaker 2: old Vuntaw Ferry.
Speaker 1: What a fun trip they would have been coming home.
Speaker 1: I'm surprise they wouldn't have transferred you out another unit
Speaker 1: that the needed reinforcements.
Speaker 2: If we'd objected to coming home. I guess they would
Speaker 2: have transferred this. But they needed on re establishment at Anaugraa.
Speaker 2: They needed to have the author of return serviceman. I
Speaker 2: think they wanted people with experience to come back to
Speaker 2: reform a battalion.
Speaker 1: Now this is where life gets a bit interesting for you.
Speaker 1: Maybe one of the reasons that you've delved into this
Speaker 1: memorial and the way that Vietnam veterans are recognized. Tell
Speaker 1: us about your experiences coming back, particularly when you tried
Speaker 1: to join the RSL Well.
Speaker 2: I returned to Port Lincoln, where I'd been called up
Speaker 2: from and went.
Speaker 1: To what are you doing over there?
Speaker 2: I was working as a builder over there, back to
Speaker 2: being an apprentice carpenter when I got out, But I
Speaker 2: was actually in uniform on an ANZAC day and went
Speaker 2: to the dawn service at the RSL, and then walked
Speaker 2: back into the RSL after the service and was told
Speaker 2: by a fellow who had had too much to drink,
Speaker 2: that I had no right to be in the RSL,
Speaker 2: that I hadn't been to a proper war and that
Speaker 2: I should remove myself, so I did. I also removed
Speaker 2: the RSL badge that I had that went in the gutter,
Speaker 2: and until very recently, i'd never grossed the.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard these stories before, I didn't experience it myself.
Speaker 1: How did you feel.
Speaker 2: Discussed? Was what I felt? It wasn't. I didn't feel
Speaker 2: rejected when we marched back into Brisbane with the battalion.
Speaker 2: We arrived back in Brisbane and we were fortunate we
Speaker 2: had what I believe was the last ticket tape welcome
Speaker 2: into Australia. The march was absolutely fantastic, but we had
Speaker 2: been warned off if we were attacked on the march,
Speaker 2: we would be given the order to disperse so the
Speaker 2: march would break up. We would melt into the crowd
Speaker 2: and then go to our port for departure to leave,
Speaker 2: because immediately after the march we were on leave. It
Speaker 2: never happened, had a fantastic march, but there was this
Speaker 2: fear of people attacking the march.
Speaker 1: Well that would have I mean, I don't think I
Speaker 1: would have dispersed that ease. I think there would have
Speaker 1: been fights everywhere.
Speaker 2: We were all in uniform. It wouldn't have worked. It was,
Speaker 2: it was. It was ridiculous, but the army didn't know
Speaker 2: how to deal with it. Looking back on it. The
Speaker 2: young woman who attacked the one ra when they came
Speaker 2: back and she covered herself in paint, Yes, and how
Speaker 2: brave was she to do that on her own volish
Speaker 2: She wasn't part of a group. She just that was
Speaker 2: what she believed in. My sister didn't wasn't happy thought
Speaker 2: that I was annoyed with her because she'd been in
Speaker 2: the moratory marches. Isn't that what we should be fighting for?
Speaker 2: That we have the ability to do that?
Speaker 1: And you Sando back in Port Lincoln, disin chanted with
Speaker 1: the RSL.
Speaker 2: When I got out, which was not long after that,
Speaker 2: I returned to my employment in Port Lincoln, and life
Speaker 2: went back to what was supposed to be normal. However,
Speaker 2: my best mate said that I was never the same,
Speaker 2: and I guess none of us were. You don't do
Speaker 2: those things and come back the same. I had a really,
Speaker 2: really good employer. He was more than happy to look
Speaker 2: after me as a returning from National service, and I
Speaker 2: became his building building supervisor, turning off sixty hours a
Speaker 2: year at the age of twenty three, which I thought
Speaker 2: was some sort of achievement.
Speaker 1: Indeed, do you have contact still with guys you've served.
Speaker 2: I've got contact with a number of them, not a
Speaker 2: big number. I've never never joined the or the Vietnam
Speaker 2: Veterans associations. I just didn't take part. I was not
Speaker 2: interested and I was too busy.
Speaker 1: So how on earth did you find the motivation to
Speaker 1: establish this memorial to not just you know, the infantry soldier,
Speaker 1: the various people who served in Vietnam.
Speaker 2: It's a really interesting situation. For a start, don't go
Speaker 2: drinking coffee with an old mate, because it gets you
Speaker 2: into all sorts of trouble. The old Yeah, John Edwards.
Speaker 2: We discussed the fact that there were no memorials that
Speaker 2: covered the people who went. There were memorials about incidents
Speaker 2: about for instance, Long Tan. There were lots of memorials
Speaker 2: to local individuals, but there was nothing explaining who had
Speaker 2: gone to Vietnam. So we thought we'd have a bit
Speaker 2: of a look at it, and we found that there
Speaker 2: were not only all of the armed forces, but there
Speaker 2: were also a lot of civilians. There were lots of
Speaker 2: interesting things. The army had four ships in Vietnam. Nobody
Speaker 2: really recognized that small ships the small ships landing craft,
Speaker 2: but they were medium sized landing craft and in fact
Speaker 2: one of them took Centurion tanks from Sydney to Vangtau.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, so they were not little boats. There were
Speaker 2: very large stingies. So yeah, that was an interesting thing.
Speaker 2: The Australian Navy, the Royal Australian Navy Helicopter Flight Vietnam
Speaker 2: served with the one thirty fifth Combat Helicopter Unit with
Speaker 2: the Yanks in both carrying passengers the troops around the
Speaker 2: place and also with gunships. And that'll become interesting in
Speaker 2: a minute. Those so nobody realized that you're.
Speaker 1: Talking about, you know, quite as flight crew. You took
Speaker 1: all the people that have been issued with Vietnam Logistics
Speaker 1: Support medals, and people wouldn't think someone who was a
Speaker 1: quant a screw person would get a medal for serving
Speaker 1: in Vietnam.
Speaker 2: When I landed in Vietnam the Ton Sinut, which was
Speaker 2: the regarded then as the busiest airfield in the world.
Speaker 2: It had a ladder runway with the two runways parallel crossovers,
Speaker 2: so it looked like a ladder from the air. When
Speaker 2: we landed, the pilot pulled into we were on the
Speaker 2: outside runway. He pulled into one of the crossovers, and
Speaker 2: I was on the left hand side of the aircraft
Speaker 2: looking up the runway and there's three Phantom jets coming
Speaker 2: down the runway and all of a sudden, our pilot
Speaker 2: starts pouring the kerosene into the burners, much loud roaring,
Speaker 2: and I'm looking out the window with very large eyes.
Speaker 2: I thought he was going to cross in front of these,
Speaker 2: but what it was. There are another three fandoms behind
Speaker 2: that first three, and he was going across between them.
Speaker 2: So very very interesting. And those pilots were all volunteers.
Speaker 2: The crew on board those quality aircraft were also volunteers,
Speaker 2: and there were five hundred issued medal.
Speaker 1: I have one of the greatest nights of my life
Speaker 1: Continent Air Base, coming back off my R and R.
Speaker 1: They had all these nightclubs and bars on the base.
Speaker 1: I got caught up with these American soldiers. I had
Speaker 1: a better time in that night at Continent Air Base,
Speaker 1: and I did on the six nights I had five
Speaker 1: nights I had on R and R in Taipei. Roger
Speaker 1: Hogman is my guest. Folks a bit more about the
Speaker 1: Vietnam War Memorial Walk, because it's going to be significant
Speaker 1: back shortly. My guest in the studio is Roger Hogman. Roger,
Speaker 1: it's a Vietnam veteran who's spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: over there on your peninsula and dwiling on the fact
Speaker 1: that maybe there's not enough recognition for logistical staff. You know,
Speaker 1: I suppose there's the recognition of the combat staff and
Speaker 1: soldiers and the like. So what did you think you
Speaker 1: could do about this?
Speaker 2: When I started looking at it, or we started looking
Speaker 2: at it, we started to research information about who was
Speaker 2: in Vietnam. And there's a document which is often looked
Speaker 2: at as the gospel of who was there, and it
Speaker 2: is called the Order of Battle. Vietnam. I've since found
Speaker 2: out that it hasn't a number of anomalies in it,
Speaker 2: but that's all right. So going through that, I found
Speaker 2: that there were a lot of civilians as well as
Speaker 2: military personnel.
Speaker 1: There were also civilians who what do you mean, give
Speaker 1: us an example?
Speaker 2: All right? There were about four hundreds doctors, nurses, and
Speaker 2: medical technicians.
Speaker 1: Weren't they weren't they in the army? Were medical? No?
Speaker 2: There, These were civilian medical staff. They were in Vietnam
Speaker 2: as part of the Southeast Asian Treaty Organization, which no
Speaker 2: longer exists. They were serving in the Vietnam civilian hospitals.
Speaker 2: They were on rotation predominantly for about six six months,
Speaker 2: and they served as just with the civilian medical people
Speaker 2: in Vietnam.
Speaker 1: Were based in Saigon, they were all over.
Speaker 2: They were certainly throughout book free province.
Speaker 1: How danger would that have been for them?
Speaker 2: I couldn't have been dangerous. They were only recognized in
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1: You're a civilian doctor in the war zone. They used
Speaker 1: to assassinate village chiefs and school teachers.
Speaker 2: And I couldn't find any of the doctors or medical
Speaker 2: staff that were killed over there. But I've spoken to
Speaker 2: a couple of one doctor and one nurse who was there.
Speaker 2: Weary Dunlop was there as part of that organization. Yes,
Speaker 2: he was there. The nurse that I spoke to, she's
Speaker 2: now in her eighties and she served on part of
Speaker 2: his team. Our local doctor in Yorktown was to be
Speaker 2: the next group to go over when they withdrew them
Speaker 2: from the SITO operation. So there were those sorts of people.
Speaker 2: Of course, the entertainers.
Speaker 1: Now, I guess we know the entertainer because they've been
Speaker 1: They're pretty well recognized. And we see the march On
Speaker 1: and Nan Wills and Little Paddy and Johnny Mack. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Bob Francis used to yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, but it's interesting that these people we have only
Speaker 2: recently been recognized. This is nearly fifty years ago. It's
Speaker 2: the reason we've put the march this the warm rail
Speaker 2: in this year is it's fifty years since the fall
Speaker 2: of Saigone, which is officially when Australia withdrew from Vietnam.
Speaker 1: So how did you get it up and did what
Speaker 1: did what was your vision? How did how did you
Speaker 1: what sort of a memorial did you see? And we
Speaker 1: imagine like a wall or a statue or a nobilisk
Speaker 1: or something like that. But what did you envisage?
Speaker 2: This one's quite different Because of the research that we did,
Speaker 2: we found that there were lots of stories. So we've
Speaker 2: written the stories about the people. So it talks about
Speaker 2: the National Service because it's the only time Australia has
Speaker 2: ever set National servicemen into a combat zone. We speak
Speaker 2: about the civilian groups that went. We speak about the
Speaker 2: armed forces that had unusual jobs there, like the helicopter
Speaker 2: pilots with the Navy. So these stories or these.
Speaker 1: Stories there, where are these stories written?
Speaker 2: They were written off our research so with the assistance
Speaker 2: of a number of people.
Speaker 1: No, I meant where do I see the story?
Speaker 2: The story will be. The stories will be on boards.
Speaker 2: These are aluminum marine grade aluminium. The stories are being
Speaker 2: cut laser cutting these boards and the boards are black
Speaker 2: laser cut and backed with a white powder coated board
Speaker 2: behind sother be easily red. They'll be on frames along
Speaker 2: the walk. As you wander along the walk, you'll be
Speaker 2: able to see them.
Speaker 1: How long is the walk?
Speaker 2: The walk is just under four kilometers wow, between where
Speaker 2: between Edithsburgh and Kebowi and along that walk that's a
Speaker 2: fair way to walk, we're all. So it's a well
Speaker 2: established path. Most of it is bitchmen. The bits that
Speaker 2: are not bitchmen. That's our next project to get that
Speaker 2: side of out. But the walk will have about twenty
Speaker 2: six story boards along it, so there's a number of
Speaker 2: these boards. We've also got people sponsoring seats along that walk,
Speaker 2: which are very comfortable seats also cut out of aluminium
Speaker 2: and they've got dedications on the backrest of the seats
Speaker 2: and we're hoping to put in about fifteen those, which
Speaker 2: works out about one seat that will set three or
Speaker 2: four people about every three hundred meters.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we're running out of time. So a couple
Speaker 1: of quick questions, So how much did it cost? And
Speaker 1: how did you get the funding for it? We put
Speaker 1: up and who helped.
Speaker 2: We put up a business plan to the York Peninsula Council,
Speaker 2: which was accepted. We then applied for Saluting their Service
Speaker 2: funding from the Department of Veteran Affairs. We were told
Speaker 2: that we would get a few thousand out of that,
Speaker 2: but not much. In that round, we were the only
Speaker 2: people in Australia that received a four hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: thousand dollars grant from saluting their service funding and that
Speaker 2: got us off the mark with this.
Speaker 1: So your business plan must have been impressive.
Speaker 2: It was a proper business plan with my history allowed
Speaker 2: me to submit a proper business plan to council explaining
Speaker 2: how and where to get funding. We've since had a
Speaker 2: fair number of donations. We've had sponsorship from veterans Essay,
Speaker 2: which has allowed us to get John Schuman over. Poor John.
Speaker 2: I am bushed him in Canberra, but he's coming over
Speaker 2: and putting on a concert and it's enabled us to
Speaker 2: keep the prices for that concert right down.
Speaker 1: I've seen John and the Vagabond Crew. It's a fantastic concert.
Speaker 1: It's very emotive and he's passionate about it and he
Speaker 1: puts on a great show. So that'll be really good.
Speaker 1: That'll be really impressive. Now. The thing that you're most
Speaker 1: proud of, I think is you've been able to find
Speaker 1: a Huey helicopter, the sort of helicopters that transported us
Speaker 1: around in Vietnam that were gunships as well, and how
Speaker 1: many of those are still around the place.
Speaker 2: Currently there are two flying in Australia, the ones in
Speaker 2: navy colors and ones an air force and we got
Speaker 2: in touch with the people that own it, HARS Historic
Speaker 2: Aircraft Restoration Society and Arts. It was absolutely not this.
Speaker 2: This aircraft will not leave the east coast of New
Speaker 2: South Wales. The furthest it will possibly go will be Canberra.
Speaker 2: So after three months of some serious negotiations they said
Speaker 2: yes they would come over.
Speaker 1: Who owns it?
Speaker 2: Historic Historic Aircraft Restoration Society which is at shoal Haven.
Speaker 2: They've got a lot of aircraft including Caribou Sea one
Speaker 2: thirties and.
Speaker 1: Now shoal Haven that's near the navy bases and in
Speaker 1: New South Wales.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's very close to the navy base. They've got
Speaker 2: a lot of historic aircraft, both civilian and military.
Speaker 1: So they own it.
Speaker 2: They own it.
Speaker 1: Are they a government body.
Speaker 2: Or volunteer volunteer association or society? They do really interesting work.
Speaker 2: They've got a number of military aircraft and this one
Speaker 2: they're allowing us twenty two hours the pilot that it's
Speaker 2: a Vietnam era helicopter. It was first served in Vietnam
Speaker 2: with the nine Squadron. It will fly to our opening
Speaker 2: hopefully from from New South that's good.
Speaker 1: They've got they've got limited lifespan though they not.
Speaker 2: This aircraft has two hundred and thirty hours left on
Speaker 2: its ROTA at the moment. They can't find a replacement
Speaker 2: ROT for that aircraft. If they can't find a replacement rot,
Speaker 2: that means it's got two hundred and thirty hours left
Speaker 2: of life. They've given us twenty two hours.
Speaker 1: So how will it take to fly over?
Speaker 2: About twenty over and back?
Speaker 1: So you've got a couple of hours whizzing around?
Speaker 2: Won't They won't be doing joy flights. This aircraft uses
Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty liters of fuel per hour, very
Speaker 2: expensive to fly.
Speaker 1: And who pays that? You've got a sponsor of that?
Speaker 2: I'd like to say we have. We're still looking for donations.
Speaker 2: We've got a guaranteur for the funding of that, but
Speaker 2: the guarantor doesn't want to pay for it. They will
Speaker 2: if we can't raise the money. But we're still about
Speaker 2: between forty and fifty thousand dollars short of funding for
Speaker 2: the whole for the whole exercise. We're getting there, and
Speaker 2: were certainly is there a website? People can go to
Speaker 2: the York menas the Council website. That's York at SA
Speaker 2: dot gov dot AU. They can certainly contact us through there.
Speaker 2: The Vietnam Veterans Association the Vietnam Veterans Federation of Australia
Speaker 2: both super supportive. And the reason that I think we
Speaker 2: got the helicopter is because the director of the Australian
Speaker 2: Warman Wargan Canbra that's Matt and Anderson, has been backing
Speaker 2: us right from the very beginning.
Speaker 1: You've had you almost unanimous support for have you counseling
Speaker 1: of the people who write letters in support, I mean
Speaker 1: a long list of prominent people who've supported you, and
Speaker 1: that you must feel gratified.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. The Mayor has invited an eminent Australian to open
Speaker 2: the memorial Walk. That won't become official for another couple
Speaker 2: of weeks, but the Mayor will have a really interesting
Speaker 2: announcement to make in the next few weeks about who's
Speaker 2: going to open the walk. We're proposing to get that
Speaker 2: person brought to the official opening by.
Speaker 1: Huey by helicoptery.
Speaker 2: Yes, so they'll bring that person in. They'll be delivered
Speaker 2: from the landing zone which is adjacent to the opening,
Speaker 2: to the opening and the helicopter will take off and
Speaker 2: will be for open inspection. On the Edithburgh Oval for
Speaker 2: the next three or four hours.
Speaker 1: So on the eighteenth of August twenty twenty five, what's
Speaker 1: the pro and where does John Schuman and his banned
Speaker 1: the Vagabond Crew come into it.
Speaker 2: The opening the day starts off with a cenotaph service
Speaker 2: at the RSL at nine o'clock. It's followed after that
Speaker 2: by the official opening at eleven o'clock on the foreshore
Speaker 2: at the southern end of the golf club. We then
Speaker 2: adjourned to have some lunch either at the sports Club,
Speaker 2: Community Club or the RSL. And following that at two o'clock,
Speaker 2: John Sherman and the Vagabond Crew are putting on their
Speaker 2: concert in the local hall. The Light Church has got
Speaker 2: a beautiful auditorium seat three hundred and fifty and he's
Speaker 2: performing in there with his crew.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great concert. I've seen it and it
Speaker 1: was important Lincoln last year when he did it and
Speaker 1: just loved it, and so of the crowd. Look, it's
Speaker 1: a great thing you've done. That's great vision, it's great enterprise.
Speaker 1: Have great persistence and obvious, very persuasive too, with your
Speaker 1: ability to extract the funds for it. I have it's
Speaker 1: a great success and I will get over there to
Speaker 1: Edithsburgh one day and walk that walk or maybe write
Speaker 1: that walk.
Speaker 2: It'll be there for the next one hundred years. It's
Speaker 2: designed to last.
Speaker 1: Got on you, Roger Hoggden from the Vietnam Veterans Memorial
Speaker 1: Walk Project, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: Thanks Graham, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1: And thank you folks.