1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Detective sy aside of life the average person is never 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 8 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 9 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 11 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 12 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 13 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world. Today, 14 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: we're sharing a story that can't be forgotten. In Part one, 15 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: I spoke to investigative journalists Douglas Smith and Emily Oli 16 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: about how the authorities responded to the deaths of Aboriginal women, 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: about how Indigenous people in Australia get treated differently, including 18 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: in homicide investigations. Now, I want to take this story 19 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: back to nineteen sixty five. That year, the Freedom Bus 20 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: Ride was led by a young group of activists demanding 21 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: Australia pay attention to the racism facing Aboriginal people. 22 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 2: It was a ride which didn't so much break the 23 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 2: shackles as it did open the eyes of Australia when 24 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 2: it came to Aboriginal people. Racism and segregation was very 25 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: much alive in country New South Wales. Nates wouldn't be 26 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 2: allowed to work in the shops because they're not tiredy enough. 27 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: There's a lot of them here, that's Scott good jobs 28 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: in the cafes, and then they just won hold them. 29 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty five, the great Charlie Perkins tries to 30 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 2: bring these issues into the light. 31 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 3: A lot of US Pradidans talk about, oh, yes, we 32 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 3: want to give the abergine affair go. Then it's full 33 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 3: stop and it's usually forgotten. They never go on to say, look, 34 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 3: we've proposed we give such and such a scholarship to 35 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 3: a number of abergees. Let us support average and organization, 36 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 3: Let us vote in favor of any legislation which allows 37 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 3: for the elevation of the Abiginal people. They don't do 38 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 3: these things. They talk about it, but never do it. 39 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: Many Australians didn't think there was discrimination in their country 40 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: in the early sixties. The Freedom Ride was an attempt 41 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: to show Australians what was really happening in their own 42 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 2: backyards every day. Not only was their segregation, the state 43 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 2: government was deliberately evicting Aboriginal people from their missions and 44 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 2: stepping up it's assimilation policies. 45 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 4: They think that the white man's eyes and what they are. 46 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: What you just heard was media coverage of the nineteen 47 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: sixty five Freedom Bus Ride. Today, I had a conversation 48 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: with Aboriginal elder and activist Lyle Monroe. Lyle was a 49 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: young Aboriginal boy in Maury when the bus came through town. Lole, 50 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: tell me about your memories of that day. 51 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 5: Well, it was as clear in my mind as as 52 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 5: ever ever was. It was like it was yesterday. Is 53 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 5: real history. It's something that happened. There's something that affected 54 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 5: our lives at the time. It still still affects our lives. 55 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 5: At the time. We were against still segregated on the 56 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 5: Mission or the Aboriginal Reserve actually known as the Mission 57 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 5: under the notorious Aboriginal Welfare Act, which was amendment to 58 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 5: the previous Act of the Aboriginal Protection Act, which kind 59 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 5: of kept our parents and our grandparents locked up on 60 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 5: these out of sight areas, out of town, out of sight. 61 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 5: The respective policies at the time, I think under the 62 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 5: Aboriginal Protection Act it was a policy of we were 63 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 5: expected to die out, and then the introduction of the 64 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 5: assimilation program where it was advisable for Aboriginal people to 65 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 5: move into town and to live somewhat of their lives 66 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 5: in the white community. It was a very serious time 67 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 5: for Aboriginal people because we've still not yet been recognized 68 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 5: as citizens of the country until the referendum in nineteen 69 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 5: sixty seven, which is two years away, and Aboriginal people 70 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 5: were subject out of town, out of site, on places 71 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 5: we referred to as concentration camps. Each manager, each mission 72 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 5: at a manager. We had two managers because the the 73 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 5: size of our mission and the population. We had a 74 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 5: manager and assistant manager. They had the right to control 75 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 5: the lives of Aboriginal people under this particular act, the 76 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 5: Aboriginal wealtha Act. But in more we'd like to think 77 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 5: we were double wheremy because of the council there during 78 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 5: these bad days introduced a local by law to the 79 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 5: Local Council Act, which restricted the presence of Aboriginal people 80 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 5: right throughout the town. It had particular restrictions on places 81 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 5: like the town hall. We had all these kind of 82 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 5: experiences going on that we tried to come to groups with, 83 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 5: but this act said at all. This act was an 84 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 5: actual fact. If you looked at the history of this act, 85 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 5: you'll see that it was a template for becoming apartheid 86 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 5: system that operated in Queensland and they moved to South Africa. 87 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 4: I think in the mid sixties. 88 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 5: The restrictions from the town hall was based on the 89 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 5: fact that we were deemed filthy. The particular restrictions referred 90 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 5: to the dining room section of the town hall, all 91 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 5: areas in town that served food. In fact, all areas 92 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 5: of the town took advantage of this peace of legislation 93 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 5: because it openly gave the town the right to openly 94 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 5: discriminate against Aboriginal people. And that process continued until Charlie 95 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 5: and the Freedom arrived in nineteen sixty five. 96 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: There's a lot to unpack with what you just talked about, 97 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: and I don't think people really appreciate it. But what 98 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: we're talking about is in your lifetime, and you refer 99 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: to the mission or the reservation where your movements were restricted. 100 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: Just explain that to people, because I don't think people 101 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: really understand. And you mentioned the part and we all 102 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: know what happened over in South Africa with that, but 103 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: we had it here in this country in your lifetime, 104 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,559 Speaker 1: and I don't think people really appreciate it. So we'll 105 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: just deviate a little bit from Charlie coming in with 106 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: the bus. Just what life was like for you growing 107 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: up in the town like that, where you excluded from 108 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: locations for no other reason other than the fact that 109 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: you're Aboriginal. 110 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 5: Well, we weren't completely excluded. It became a bit of 111 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 5: an embarrassment when we got to high school because we 112 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 5: had the mission school that went to sixth class. It 113 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 5: had a third class accepted level of education. But fortunately 114 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 5: enough our teachers reached the frontier with that and continue 115 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 5: to treat our school like the normal schools when we 116 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 5: got to high school. Of course, most of us were 117 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 5: good swimmers. We had some experiences there, like myself with 118 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 5: about six of us. One day, two young people who 119 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 5: were camping down from the mission the baby felling the river, 120 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 5: and we ran down there and dived and pulled the 121 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 5: baby out. 122 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 4: Unfortunately it was too. 123 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 5: Late, so we've had those experiences. Some of us were 124 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 5: reaching into the high school swimming team, so every Wednesday 125 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 5: afternoon a sport. I mean most of us was encouraged 126 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 5: openly to take cricket and vigoro as a sport to 127 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 5: avoid the embarrassment with the restrictions from the pool. Were 128 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 5: restricted from the ovalves too, but at the time that 129 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 5: was kind of come and go kind of thing. You know, 130 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 5: we could go a be able to play Saturday morning football, 131 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 5: but after that we'd have to vacate the area in 132 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 5: the town. 133 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: You talk it, you lived it. It's hard for me 134 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: to even comprehend it. So yeah, you play football and 135 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: then okay, well you're not welcome back to hang around. 136 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: You've served your purpose, you've played football, and then go 137 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: back to the mission. All the reservation. Is that what 138 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: we're talking about. 139 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 5: Well, it's spelled out loud and clear with the return soldiers, 140 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 5: I mean most of our soldiers, because they weren't citizens 141 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 5: of the country until sixty seven. The only way we 142 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 5: could enlist and most all of our all of our 143 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 5: soldiers were volunteers. And we see in the case there 144 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 5: where all our soldiers returned basically directly sent back to 145 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 5: the missions and no recognition of their role that they 146 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 5: played in the You know, all the wars. Our men 147 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 5: volunteered with all the wars, but our people were we 148 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 5: weren't allowed. I mean, these same soldiers weren't allowed to 149 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 5: drink in the RSSL clubs. 150 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 4: At the time. 151 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 5: There was no soldiers settlements supported to our soldiers. There 152 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 5: was no pensions supported to our soldiers. In actual fact, 153 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 5: the soldiers, the Aboriginal soldiers from Queensland, we paid no 154 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 5: money to be involved in the in these these international issues. 155 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 5: That was the indicator that we weren't wanted. Living on 156 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 5: the mission some three k's out of towns are out 157 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 5: of town, out of sight. We were segregated by a 158 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 5: three foot fence with a barbed wire structure on the 159 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 5: top of it. Now, I don't know whether people can understand, 160 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 5: but when you can actually high jump that fence and 161 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 5: when you watch animals come and go freely and starts 162 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 5: putting crazy thoughts into your head. 163 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 4: Even though we were young people. 164 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 5: I mean I had some personal experiences where I'd go 165 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 5: up to the gate the entrance to the mission and 166 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 5: sit on the gate and the middle of the night 167 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 5: and just wonder what's the problem, what's out there, what's 168 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 5: on the other side of this. So at times I'd 169 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 5: kind of sneak down the gate and stand on the 170 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 5: other side of the gate, and I used to seek 171 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 5: the misself, well, what's the difference. However, that was the 172 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 5: fence that restricted our presence on the mission. When we 173 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 5: got to high school, some of us entertained the idea 174 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 5: in trying up with the swinging team. So on Wednesday afternoon, 175 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 5: for instance, we'd arrived at the pool. In general sport, 176 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 5: Aboriginal kids would be signaled out. We'd have to wash 177 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 5: and scrub and the showers before we went to the pool. 178 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 4: We had to have the. 179 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 5: Trunks that the pool supplied. We couldn't wear ron swing trunks. 180 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 5: And then we were allowed to dabble around in one 181 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 5: corner of the pool. This was with the duration of 182 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 5: the afternoon, and when that three o'clock bell rang, then 183 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 5: it had come on the llowd to speaker all Aboragemal 184 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 5: children remove themselves from the pool. That happened on a 185 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 5: regular basis, on a weekly basis. However, we persevered with 186 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 5: that because at least we were in the pool. At 187 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 5: least we were in the corner of the pool, and 188 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 5: they stood there, the teachers, and kind of made sure 189 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 5: we stayed in that particular corner we lived. Under that legislation, 190 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 5: we could go into town. We'd had our own bus, 191 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 5: the bus to pick us up, drop us into town 192 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 5: for movies, and then back on the bus back to 193 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 5: the mission. The same with shopping. 194 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: You mentioned the mission manager or the manager on the mission. 195 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: Who did that and what was the role of a 196 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: manager like restricting your movements and overseen. 197 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 5: Well, under the Aboriginal Welfare Act, the local serge and 198 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 5: the police station was actually the pursue administer minister the act. 199 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 5: Managers and their wives were hired to control the lives 200 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 5: of Aboriginal people on the mission. So to gain access 201 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 5: to the mission, you first of all had to pull 202 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 5: up and report to the man. To leave the mission, 203 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 5: you had to report to the manager. But the manager 204 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 5: and their wives. The only medication we were ministered by the 205 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 5: manager's wife was stuff like pecure crameman and the ointment 206 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 5: or whatever, skin rations and stuff like that. But this 207 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 5: segregation also applied to the hospital. 208 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: Next. 209 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 5: Fact, the hospital segregation was the thing before Charlie Ham 210 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 5: arrived in sixty five McMaster ward. It was the segregated 211 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 5: section of the Maury Hospital where we were all born, 212 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 5: and that we believe was the initiative for the introduction 213 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 5: of that particular by law. We had also had an 214 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 5: assistant manager and they were residents on the mission. The 215 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 5: head master's premises home was a resident of the mission. 216 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 5: So we had our own mission school for all the 217 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 5: wrong reasons. I don't know why we're not allowed Aboriginal 218 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 5: schools now for all the right reasons, but that was 219 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 5: a system. It was hard trying to comprehend it. I 220 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 5: suppose when when we became of age, but the scars experience. 221 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: And. 222 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 5: I mean for one white man and his wife to 223 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 5: have complete controlled the lives of some six hundred people, 224 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 5: and this was the law. It wasn't an accepted practice. 225 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 5: The racism around New South Wells at the time it 226 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 5: was an accepted practice. But in Maori it was a 227 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 5: legislative practice. They actually created the local by law. And 228 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 5: I was surprising that after all that, the confrontations, and 229 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 5: that when Charlie and them eventually left, when we convinced 230 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 5: the mayor to rescind them the bye law, they then 231 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 5: reintroduced the by law. So Charlie them had to come 232 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 5: back and demonstrate and do what they had to do 233 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 5: then to have the bylow point finally scrapped forever. 234 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the the Freedom Bus Ride and Charlie 235 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: Perkins and I think there was twenty nine students from 236 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: Sydney University and they traveled in rural New South Wales 237 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: visiting towns that they believed there was discrimination and racism 238 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: in the town and they went to, off the top 239 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: of my head, Walgot, Maury and different places around the 240 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: north and northwestern regions of the state. But the Freedom 241 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: bus Ride people, yeah, we hear about it in America. 242 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: I think most Australians would be more aware of what 243 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: went on in the Southern States of America with the 244 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: Freedom bus Ride. But this was very significant and changed 245 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: the way people look at the situation and identify it. 246 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: Can you talk about the bus ride and what it 247 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: actually achieved, where they went and what the purpose of 248 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: the bus ride was. 249 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 5: Well, the only village we out of the bus ride 250 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 5: the Freedom Ride was from the odd home that had 251 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 5: a television and the ABC was talking about this bus 252 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 5: that was traveling through New South Wales towns and they 253 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 5: were in Wolgot at the time, and we saw the 254 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 5: demonstrations the outside the Ursel Club. 255 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 4: And the swimming pool. 256 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 5: On the way between Moore and Wolgot, the bus was 257 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 5: run off the road by white hooligans that basically chased 258 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 5: them out of town. The bus was run off the road. 259 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 5: It ended up in the in the gutter on the 260 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 5: side of the road. Some describe it has almost been 261 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 5: fatal some of the students. There was quite a serious situation, 262 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 5: but there was also a couple of carlos of young 263 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 5: Murray men that also followed the bus to make sure 264 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 5: that they were safe. 265 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 4: They arrived in Maury. 266 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 5: I think it's just so hard to understand that the 267 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 5: reasoning and. 268 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 4: Why the bus got there. 269 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 5: But we were home on the mission and I think 270 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 5: it was about maybe four o'clock in the afternoon. We 271 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 5: were just leaving the mission swimming pool. This bus appeared 272 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 5: at the gate and it wasn't a tourist bus. Because 273 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 5: we were quite used to tourist buses. They'd give us, 274 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 5: you know, check out sixpences and lollies and that type 275 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 5: of stuff for us. This bus had an aura around 276 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 5: about it in anticipation. We were kind of amazed that 277 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 5: this time of the afternoon that a bus was coming 278 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 5: onto the mission that we didn't recognize. We recognized the 279 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 5: skool bus, the town bus, you know, the tourist buses, 280 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 5: that type of thing, but this bus kind of had 281 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 5: this strange aura around it about it. So we watched 282 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 5: this bus travel slowly around the able coming to the 283 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 5: manager's residence. They never pulled up at the manager's residence. Hello, 284 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 5: what's going on here? Because everyone had to pull up 285 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 5: with the manager's residents. And this bus pulled up and 286 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 5: the doors opened, and there was this handsome black man 287 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 5: okay to the front of the bus and just simply said, 288 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 5: we'd just like to come in have a swim in 289 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 5: the town bars. So eleven of us, of course jumped 290 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 5: on the bus, not knowing what was going to happen. 291 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 5: Of course, drove to the swimming pool. Charlie and the 292 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 5: students started to negotiate, you know, our entry that wasn't 293 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 5: acceptable because of the Bye law. They basically lived by 294 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 5: this by law. Everything their excuses for their racism was 295 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 5: all tied up in this by law. But keep in 296 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 5: mind it was also a new kind of learning for 297 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 5: us too, I mean, being segregated and then being segregated 298 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 5: from everywhere else and I mean your thoughts were segregated, whole, 299 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 5: your whole being was segregated. I suppose it never had 300 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 5: the effect and I said it had on our parents 301 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 5: and our grandparents because with their generations it was an 302 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 5: accepted practice. This is how it is, you know, this 303 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 5: is how we are. 304 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 4: Nothing is going to change. 305 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 5: We're subjected to this with it. No one's going to 306 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,479 Speaker 5: question it because of the authority at the time they 307 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 5: were taking the kids away all this type of stuff. 308 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 5: The policies were their integration you know, to smooth dying 309 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 5: pillow quote unquote, then the assimilation program, which was entirely 310 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 5: different based on you know, they need to assimilate and 311 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 5: to be like other Australians. But what intrigued me was 312 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 5: being boarding school and coming home with me uniform on 313 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 5: and the bus had dropped me at the mission gate. 314 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 5: I'd get off the train, get a bus, a school 315 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 5: bus had dropped off the mission gate. 316 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 4: Then I have to report to the manager. I'm home. 317 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 5: And when I was leaving it, I have to report 318 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 5: to the manager to go back to Delasell. 319 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, your parents and manager. 320 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, So and the managers had their rule was strict. 321 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 5: We had some managers that were quite acceptable. There were 322 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 5: other managers that were tyrants and completely controlled the situation. 323 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 5: They had the right to walk into a home and 324 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 5: inspected at any given time. They had the right to 325 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 5: do whatever they wanted to do with your home. They 326 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 5: could move you from your home. Those who accepted the 327 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 5: dog tags we call them, like the freedom papers that 328 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 5: were given to particular Aboriginal people. That sort of stuff 329 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 5: was in the process. Rugby league was starting in our communities, 330 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 5: which was basically the way out for a lot of 331 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 5: us young people, because our day was like while whilst 332 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 5: the parents were shopping, we were playing set him on 333 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 5: competition and with that we're allowed to go to the 334 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 5: day's matinee after the after the football, and but it 335 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 5: was always back to the mission. There was always that 336 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 5: bus or that car going back to the mission. There 337 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 5: was always that gate closing behind us, and there was 338 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 5: always that three three foot fans. 339 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 4: To contend with. 340 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 1: The way you're describing that, it's not this similar to 341 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: being in the prison. Yeah, someone that can come into 342 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,199 Speaker 1: your home at any time without reason, move you at 343 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: any time without reason, allow you in or out under 344 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: their control, it's. 345 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 5: Yeah, and the only food source available to us was 346 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 5: there was a Lebanese family there called the Lurhoods, who 347 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 5: I would think that a lot of our people would 348 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,479 Speaker 5: have been in serious trouble if it wasn't for that family. 349 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 5: They breached the restrictions and made sure that you know 350 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 5: that they came down to the mission again against the 351 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 5: manager's wishes, or they'd park outside the fence against the 352 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 5: manager's wishes, and they bought the necessary food like bread 353 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 5: and butter. 354 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 4: And yeah, you. 355 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: Mentioned that the other day. And it's ironic, isn't it 356 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: that well leving those immigrants are the ones that the 357 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: tree did you. 358 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, as humans, and we're still very much associated with 359 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 5: the Lohold family, same as we are with the Perkins family, 360 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 5: the two families that played a big role in a 361 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 5: big part of our history. 362 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 4: In the town. 363 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 5: And that's how that's basically how we lived until Charlie 364 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 5: and the Freedom Right arrive undred and sixty five. 365 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: We've got this going on in our country. Do you 366 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: think people are aware of the history of or understanding. 367 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 5: Well, Sadly enough, the majority of Aboriginal people are not 368 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 5: aware of this. 369 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 4: Part of our history. 370 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 5: So this history has been kind of shoved in the 371 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 5: corner and the two hard basket, and where's those who 372 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 5: witnessed those that was witnessed it. And there's still hundreds 373 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 5: of us alive from that system, and we still bear 374 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 5: the scars. A lot of our young people, particularly in 375 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 5: our town. A lot of the young people are now 376 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 5: starting to come to grips with the fact that it happened. 377 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 5: And of course it's a lot of mus spellbound that 378 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 5: this kind of thing actually happened to their parents who 379 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 5: were still here. And so keep in mind at the time, 380 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 5: Maury was also divided up the community out of the 381 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 5: black community, like we had a place called the Mission, 382 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 5: the Middle Camp, the Top Camp, and the common Now 383 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 5: the Top Top Camp were Aboriginal people that came in 384 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 5: from Terry, Io when they closed the mission there and 385 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 5: then I think nineteen twenty three nineteen twenty four, some 386 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 5: of them went to Boggabill and Mung and Dai and 387 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 5: all around the place, but most settled in Mare. And 388 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 5: the Top Camp was on the riverbank with all their 389 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 5: huts and the type of stuff with dirt flaws in 390 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 5: that they had an invisible fence around them. Because no 391 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,959 Speaker 5: matter whether we were all Aboriginal people were subjected to 392 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 5: the Aboriginal Welfare Act. That was the controlling factor and 393 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 5: that stayed with ustil nineteen sixty seven. And like I 394 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 5: said before, that did night our whole existence. So up 395 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 5: until nineteen sixty seven, no Aboriginal people in this country 396 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 5: theoretically never existed. 397 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: You're considered a citizen now, Your parents or the people 398 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: before you went through life not being considered a citizen 399 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: and managed under the Flora and Fauna. 400 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 5: Well, whether or not that actually was the case of 401 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 5: whether it was just a myth that covered the situation 402 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 5: at the time, but we certainly weren't counted in the census, 403 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 5: the statistics, and I think it was more or less 404 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 5: an accepted fact that we were then treated and counted 405 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 5: the most of raw and foreigner. 406 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: So people talk about the nineteen sixty seven referendum, what 407 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 1: exactly did it mean? 408 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, basically, you gave the federal government the right to 409 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 5: enact laws will be up of Aboriginal people. The confusing 410 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 5: part was that we were led to believe that was 411 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 5: the first time that Aboriginal people were allowed to vote, 412 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 5: and that was the myth that company that that narrative 413 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 5: all the way through until we'd realized ourselves. 414 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: Looking at the bus ride the other towns, and it 415 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: got a lot of media coverage at the time, and 416 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: it was significant, and yeah that's scary. Yeah, well scary 417 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. That it was challenging, the 418 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: challenging the norms, and as you know, I think you 419 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: spent your lifetime fighting the systems on different things. And 420 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: we'll talk about the impact that it's had on the 421 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: direction of your life later. But do you think that 422 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: was an awakening looking at it now sixty years ago, 423 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: the Freedom Bus ride, and it was a significant part 424 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 1: in the history of this country. 425 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 5: I don't think it was an awakening as such. I 426 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,959 Speaker 5: think it was a realization and understanding that these things 427 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 5: were going on. That we were aware of it, but 428 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 5: we didn't kind of comprehend it. I mean, the learning 429 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 5: process with us, other than the normal education process, was 430 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 5: the way we lived the things that were happening. You know, 431 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,679 Speaker 5: the Mission bus came, took people to town. We go across 432 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 5: the bed area every morning with our little billy cans 433 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 5: to get the milk. That was our access to milk. 434 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying there, Love, because as a kid, 435 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: what's what goes on is what happens. You don't question it. Yeah, 436 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: well you're accepting it. You might understand it, but okay, 437 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: this is just the way the world is. 438 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 5: Well, it was pretty kind of daring to like we'd 439 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 5: have our little billy cans every morning, about twenty of us, 440 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 5: and we'd all travel. But it became pretty dicey and 441 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 5: wet weather because you had to dig your toes into 442 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 5: the bank and won't be tired if you spilt that milk. 443 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 5: We had a system if someone spilt their milk, then 444 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 5: we'd all kind of top it up a little bit, 445 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 5: you know, to get it all level again. 446 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: But no. 447 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 4: Spilling the milk was it was in the ship cardinals in. 448 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, you were going to cop it or someone was 449 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 5: going to cop it, but but that was a normal 450 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 5: system to us. It was though we didn't it was 451 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 5: any different to what was going on in the town 452 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 5: and around us. But the Freedom Right also awaken some 453 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 5: of the young white people too, because what was going 454 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 5: on Saturday Morning Camp in particular, was race relation. I mean, 455 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 5: is the town kind of come to grips with this 456 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 5: important issue, and our young people were basically breaching all 457 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 5: these frontiers Saturday morning football. I mean, we've still got 458 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 5: friends from way back then. I mean, why didn't someone 459 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 5: ask us about how to deal with this race relations 460 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 5: question in Mauri? Maybe some of us kids would have 461 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 5: had some answers, even trying to explain to our own 462 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 5: children about what happened, and then watching the impact and 463 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 5: when our young people start realizing, like how do you survive? 464 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 4: How to you know? But we did. 465 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 5: We've always survived for some reason or other. I mean, 466 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 5: it was hard. It was always straight back to the mission. 467 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 5: It was always from the mission to there or straight 468 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 5: back to the mission. But we survived somehow we've survived. 469 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 5: But the impact of the Freedom Ride has still not 470 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 5: been realized, simply because it's not a part of for instance, 471 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 5: education curriculum and that part of the that that part 472 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,479 Speaker 5: of the country, no one talks about it. It's like 473 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 5: if it's taboo, and Aboriginal people were taboo, but now 474 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 5: the narrative their stories taboo because it reconnects us with 475 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 5: the way we were simply the only the only thing 476 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 5: we've had these discussions with the white people. 477 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:29,919 Speaker 4: That we grew up with. 478 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 5: It wasn't something to be looked at and to be 479 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 5: examined for all the wrongdoings. 480 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 4: It was something that just happened. 481 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 5: We we you know, our lives were controlled, so it 482 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 5: must have been good for if these decisions were made 483 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 5: for us, they must have been decent decisions or whatever. 484 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 5: But there was a lot of bad decisions. I mean, 485 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:58,719 Speaker 5: we weren't allowed information. Like when they took our brothers 486 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 5: and sisters into the end of the stolen generation system, 487 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 5: we just realized they were gone. No one officially told us. 488 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 5: So a lot of information was kept from us too 489 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 5: by our parents because of what it was and the 490 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 5: effects that it would have had on us. So at times, 491 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 5: our parents were shielding us all the time from these 492 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 5: phenomenons that were affecting our lives that we weren't aware of. 493 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: Ye And you can understand that as a parent, that's 494 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: something that you would do. But the fact that the 495 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: significance of the Freedom bus ride, you're saying that it's 496 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: not something that people widely know or the details of it. 497 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: It's something that we all should know, shouldn't we Well. 498 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 5: It should be part of the educational cricket on It's 499 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 5: a history that I mean, you know, we're flooded with 500 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 5: the white history. There's nothing about us other than our existence. 501 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 5: Sometimes it's hard to sit down and explain to your grandchildren. 502 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 5: But again a lot of this, a lot of that 503 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 5: information was kept. 504 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: Promise, do you think do you think what happened with 505 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: the bus ride and you saw the results from it 506 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: or the interest, does that shape your life? Because you 507 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: know you're described as an activist and you've been at 508 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: the foreth front of a lot of change on indigenous 509 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: aspects and the way things are handled. Do you think 510 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: that gave you a taste or shaped you in the door? 511 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 5: It certainly gave us an insight into the results of 512 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 5: the direct action at the time, the Aboriginal Advancement groups 513 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 5: suggest forming and in more e the Aboriginal Advancement Committee 514 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 5: was in actual fact the more emissions Skilled PNC association. 515 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 5: So that involved into the pritical to fathom at all, 516 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 5: as they're probably the bravest people I've ever encountered in 517 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 5: my life up until later on in life, but just 518 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 5: to understand that a group of young white people, thirty 519 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 5: of them in fact students with this young black radical 520 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 5: I mean their lives could have been cut short directly 521 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 5: coming out of Sydney let alone going through places like 522 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 5: Dubbo and Canable and Gila Gumbo and Walgut and then 523 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 5: eventually coming to Maury. It took a lot of guts, 524 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 5: It took a lot of intestinal fortitude. I mean, this 525 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 5: area is still controlled by the Country Party, the National 526 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,479 Speaker 5: Party Blue Ribbon seatry throughout northern New South Wales well 527 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 5: seventy four years of my life. So a lot of 528 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 5: the racism, it was part of the system. White people 529 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 5: could do whatever they wanted with us. There was no 530 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 5: police thet to predict because there was no law there 531 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 5: to protect us. So we had to be very careful 532 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 5: and at the same time being aware of it. When 533 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 5: we started being aware of it and being careful with it, 534 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 5: to realize our parents, in all the difficult as they 535 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 5: were facing, were still shielding us, you know, from this 536 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 5: bad stuff. And it wasn't a matter of our parents 537 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 5: teaching it, teaching us this stuff. It was a matter 538 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 5: of us evolving and finding out ourselves and it just 539 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 5: became a part of our education that But at the 540 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 5: same time you tin to come to grips with yet 541 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 5: it's still happening to us, like why doesn't anyone say 542 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 5: something about it? Why doesn't someone do something about it, 543 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 5: and it's never happened. We had the same situation now 544 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 5: I talk about the cancelated deaths in Maury. No one 545 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 5: seems to be interested. I mean, at the moment we're 546 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 5: doing our history and eulogies in Maury, but it's another 547 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 5: phenomena that's affecting our groups and our families and our nations. 548 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 5: Were seem to be always shoved in the hard, hard 549 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 5: basket part of the eyes, you know. 550 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: And so it's a shame that we're sitting here talking 551 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: about something that happened sixty years ago, and now sixty 552 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: years later we're talking and there's still issues that have 553 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: concerned for you. 554 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 5: I shed a few tears there the other night. I 555 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 5: mean that town turned out against us. There was only us, 556 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 5: eleven kids and the students. There was no Aboriginal growing 557 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 5: ups or anyone. And to walk the gauntlet, you know, 558 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 5: about twenty yards from the pool door to the footpath, 559 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 5: and to see Charlie beIN drug drug out that night, 560 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 5: and you know, the whole town and the local hotel 561 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 5: across the roads is empty, and these people came from 562 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 5: everywhere and there was just us and the students. Thirty 563 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 5: what forty one of us, and they they they chuck 564 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 5: to everything they could at us, bottles, rotten eggs, anything 565 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 5: they could lay their hands on. I was trying to 566 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,479 Speaker 5: traumatizing experience. The eldest in the bus, right, I think, 567 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 5: was the sister soone's owner. She was fifteen, our group 568 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 5: was thirteen and the mean brother, and then we're twelve 569 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 5: and eleven, so we were basically kids. And to witness 570 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 5: that it still gives me creeps when I think about it, 571 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 5: but it was it was quite a terrifying experience. 572 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: Would imagine that. I would imagine that was extremely terrifying, 573 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: like having that much anger and yeah, animosity directed at 574 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 1: you for what. Well. 575 00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 5: The savors place that night ironically was the mission the 576 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 5: mission gates, you know, home again, So it was like 577 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 5: from the frying pan into the fire kind of thing 578 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 5: and reversing all the time. So but later on I 579 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 5: don't think it affected us that much until later on 580 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 5: we started realizing that's when that's when it started to 581 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 5: kind of yeah. 582 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, my observation of and looking at the things 583 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: that you've done with your life, it's instilled something in you. 584 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: You've got to taste for it. But you know, if 585 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: you want change, there's got to be You're got to push. 586 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: Nothing happens unless you push. And your life sort of 587 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: been shaped by that. I think it'll be fair to 588 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: say very much. 589 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:48,720 Speaker 4: So, Yeah, the fire in the belly. 590 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, as Charlie word lit, the fire in the belly, 591 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 5: I think we all inherited that, some of us in 592 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 5: Maria's shaped our future, particularly our politics. Basically after freedom 593 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 5: in sixty seven, three four years, four years, five years, 594 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 5: we all started kind of gathering in Sydney, all talking 595 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 5: the same language, and then from there they say, the 596 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,240 Speaker 5: rest is history. I mean, the formation of the average 597 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:36,400 Speaker 5: infrastructures call androids, marches, the resistance, the reminder of you know, 598 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 5: the past is back there, the particular act acts that 599 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 5: controlled us, and it needs to be discussed, particularly in 600 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 5: country towns, because the racism in country towns is basically 601 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,320 Speaker 5: a big part of us based on having people scared. 602 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 5: Like sometimes when I'm sitting out talking with common Raids, 603 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 5: it's even hard for us to at times to comprehend 604 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 5: that we actually are still here, but we live, we 605 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 5: live that light, and they're still reminders there, you know, 606 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 5: and it manifests in ways sometimes that it can be sudden. 607 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:26,320 Speaker 5: Your action reactions can take a lot longer, but the 608 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 5: impact when it comes, wow, you know. 609 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: I think the sad part with it, Lole is that 610 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,720 Speaker 1: you take your foot off the throttle and ye stop 611 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 1: and it reverts reverts back. But yeah, you've set things 612 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: in place. And when I say you, it's it's not 613 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 1: just you, as you readily acknowledge, it's a whole range 614 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: of people that have been fighting to make things a 615 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,839 Speaker 1: level playing field. Aboriginal legal services is one that comes 616 00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: to mind, and that's helping your people find themselves before 617 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: the courts and having someone that can properly represent them 618 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: and not be disadvantaged. So a whole range of things. 619 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for what you've done. Your 620 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: name comes up in circles I mix with all the time, 621 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: and you've thought of in a. 622 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 5: Yeah, I've had some privileges one could call privileges, you know, 623 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 5: all inspired by that, particularly that one night. Being one 624 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 5: of the organizers of the average refrastructures and the national bodies, the. 625 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 4: Visits to. 626 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 5: The Representative voice to for instance, the Subcommission and Human 627 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 5: rights there in Geneva in eighty three eighty four, I 628 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 5: studied at a major international first people's program there in 629 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 5: Strasburg for six weeks. I had some interesting people, have 630 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:07,720 Speaker 5: got some interesting friends. When comes to mind with Prince Mahato. 631 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 4: Sounds interesting, he's now king. Let's see of Lisuto. 632 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 5: He was an eighteen year old when we studied there 633 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 5: at Strasburgh. Yeah, I've got some other interesting friends. Some 634 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 5: are welcome, some are not. 635 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: You know, well, life's are full of interesting characters. 636 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:36,359 Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, been some interesting places, seen some interesting things, 637 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,479 Speaker 5: a lot of heartache at times, but the artat's only 638 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,320 Speaker 5: there for you allowed some of the people. It takes 639 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 5: a lot longer to realize that, you know, what we're 640 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 5: talking about is what we witness. A lot of our 641 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 5: a lot of our people, our age, have forgotten about 642 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 5: this scene. So you find yourself continuously in this educational program, 643 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 5: this edit occational process of reminding your brethren that, yeah, 644 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 5: this actually happened to us, brother, this actually happened to 645 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 5: our sister. You know, we're still alive. Its hundreds and 646 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,799 Speaker 5: hundreds of us still alive to tell the story that 647 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 5: never happened seventy years ninety years ago. They just happened 648 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,040 Speaker 5: in our lifetime, you know, and so hard to tell 649 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 5: the kids that a three foot fence. I mean, when 650 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 5: you tell the obvious black kid in Maury that you were, 651 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 5: you know, locked up with a three foot fence, they'd say, 652 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 5: you're joking. That's that's that's that never happened. Well as 653 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 5: your pop asking then asking mom and dad. You know, so, 654 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,919 Speaker 5: at times is very hard for us to even get 655 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:47,799 Speaker 5: the message across. At times we succeed. Other times the 656 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,399 Speaker 5: pressures are so great that, you know, we haven't lost 657 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,839 Speaker 5: the battle. The battle has just been kind of put 658 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 5: off for a time, you know. But then the realization 659 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 5: that you were part of it and you were subjected 660 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:07,759 Speaker 5: to it, that then you have to kind of work 661 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 5: out how you come to grips with that, whether you're 662 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 5: going to let that effect the rest of your life, 663 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 5: whether you're going to play the victim thing for the 664 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,879 Speaker 5: rest of your life, or you're simply going to open 665 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:24,359 Speaker 5: your mouth about it. We simply said no. I mean, 666 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 5: all our struggles were based on and Comroy people and 667 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:35,239 Speaker 5: Gagery people. Our lingo is tied up in no. You know, 668 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 5: we're known as the no people. But that simple word, 669 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,400 Speaker 5: and that's what everyone expressed. Just simply said no. Charlie 670 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,400 Speaker 5: and them expressed it, you know, to the racism. No, 671 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 5: we expressed it. No, it was all knows most of 672 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,319 Speaker 5: our lives, you know, and that's how we got in 673 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 5: the door. That's how i've boys started to be. And 674 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,359 Speaker 5: then you had some great leader black leaders that came 675 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 5: out of our struggle, you know, and a lot of 676 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:06,720 Speaker 5: them is still around. 677 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 1: I think the fact that you are telling the story 678 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 1: and the way that you lived your life and I 679 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: understand that no I'm not going to accept that is 680 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,879 Speaker 1: a very strong and powerful, powerful message. So that's why 681 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,800 Speaker 1: I wanted to get you on the on the podcast, 682 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,240 Speaker 1: to put it out there and tell the people the story. 683 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: Now some people might go, I'm not interested that happened 684 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: sixty years ago, but you're a living example of a 685 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 1: person that's still alive but still remembers it and the 686 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 1: impact that's had on you and the difference. And I 687 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 1: hope people do understand their history because the more more 688 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: I learn, the more I'm just okay. It opens my 689 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:42,880 Speaker 1: eyes to a lot of things. 690 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 4: Yeah. 691 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 5: Well, it's like it's like these people, I think they've 692 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 5: got the same problems. They want to go over and 693 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 5: see other countries, you know, and they haven't been in 694 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,279 Speaker 5: this country. They haven't seen this country there. 695 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 1: Let's look in their way and backyard. Yeah, I think, 696 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:04,359 Speaker 1: but look, let's finish up now again. And I think 697 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,359 Speaker 1: it just shows a character of you're on to talk 698 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: about the Freedom bus ride, talking about issues from sixty 699 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,839 Speaker 1: years ago and how you have to fight and learn 700 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: to say no, and we're not going to take it. 701 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:17,840 Speaker 1: We're going to move forward, not let it break you. 702 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 1: So thank you so much for what you've done throughout 703 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,720 Speaker 1: your life. Thanks for coming on to Eye Catch Killers, 704 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,279 Speaker 1: and it's been great to have a chat. And I'm 705 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 1: sure we'll be speaking again a lot down the track. 706 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 4: It's your pleasure, you got it. Yeah, cheers really seaside