1 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: From The Australian. I'm Claire Harvey and this is the 2 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: weekend edition of The Front. How does an artist capture 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: a human face in oils on canvas to make it 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: more than just a picture, to get right into the 5 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: soul of a subject. Those are the questions we'll examine 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: today in a special episode of The Front, featuring The 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: Australian's editorial cartoonist Johannes Leek and Alex Rivchen, the writer 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: and advocate. He's painted for one of the world's most 9 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: prestigious art competitions, the one hundred thousand dollars Archibald Prize 10 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: for Portraiture. This is a story I've written for today's 11 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: review section in the Weekend Australian. We'll link to the 12 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: digital version of the story in our show notes so 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: you can see this beautiful work of art for yourself. 14 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: There's a ray of light that drives Alex Rivchin bonkers 15 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: in the mornings. It slants in through the high windows 16 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 1: of his home study, making half the room convenience store 17 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: blinding and casting the other half into gloom. When he 18 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: has to do a video call or a live TV 19 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: cross Riftin finds himself dragging furniture around to ensure he 20 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: can be seen on screen. For artist Johannes League, that 21 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: sunbeam is a gift shining in from above. It brings 22 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: to mind a prison cell and the sense of confinement 23 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: of pain he wants to bring to his portrait of 24 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: Riftin For the Archibald Prize, the work must be a painting. 25 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: Begin the rules of the Archibald, Australia's most coveted portraiture award, 26 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: the work must be a portrait painted from life, with 27 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: the subject known to the artist, aware of the artist's intention, 28 00:01:54,960 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: and having at least one live sitting with the artist. Rifchin, 29 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: a writer and advocate, qualifies for another Archibald clause that 30 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: the subject be distinguished in art, letters, science or politics. 31 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: Thanks to a breathtakingly erudite and street smart book on 32 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: anti Semitism, The Seven Deadly Myths, among other works. He 33 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: also happens to be handsome in a Ukrainian prince in 34 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: exile sort of way, all sculptural nose and chiseled cheekbones 35 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:34,959 Speaker 1: a painter's dream. Born in Kiev, Rifchin arrived in Australia 36 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty eight as a four year old refugee 37 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: from the brutal Soviet persecution of Jews, with his parents, 38 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: both teachers, grandparents, and older brother Eugene. In Ukraine. The 39 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: family had lived just a block from Babi Yah, the 40 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: scene of one of the Nazi's worst atrocities, the September 41 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: nineteen forty one massacre of more than thirty three thousand 42 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: Jewish civilians, including old and babies, who were lined up 43 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: naked on the edge of a ravine and machine gunned. 44 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: In the nineteen eighties, Alex's parents, Tenure and Michael had 45 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: been labeled refuse Nicks traitors for applying to leave the 46 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: Soviet Union, where Jews were relentlessly excluded and targeted. They 47 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: spent months in Italy before gaining entry permits to Australia. 48 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: In Sydney, there was no money, the kids spoke only Russian. 49 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:35,839 Speaker 1: Here's Alex Rifchin, now forty one. 50 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 2: I remember within a month of arriving, I was put 51 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 2: into school because my parents and grandparents got to work. 52 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 2: So I went to Rose Bay School at age four 53 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: and a half and I couldn't communicate with anyone. I 54 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 2: was getting to fights every day because I thought I 55 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 2: was being disrespected and ignored and misunderstandings were rampant, but 56 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 2: this is what happens to migrants. And within a couple 57 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 2: of months, you know, kids are incredibly adaptable and absorbed 58 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 2: language very well, and things became a lot easier, but 59 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 2: they were challenging at first. 60 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: Mum, an English teacher, got a job in a pie shop, Dad, 61 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: a physics and maths teacher, clean toilets and drove a taxi. 62 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: Alex remembers huge kindness and generosity within the Soviet exile 63 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: and Jewish communities and the broader Australia. For this penniless 64 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: clan of Ukrainians, not everyone was kind. The young Alex's 65 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: first personal experience of anti Semitism was the Austrian upstairs 66 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: neighbor at a Randwick unit bloc who shouted death threats 67 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: and Nazi slogans at the family every day. Why did 68 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: he hate us so, Alex has written, He surely would 69 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: have had no coherent answer, but he knew with perfect 70 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 1: certainty that the Jew represented in that moment by my 71 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: parents and their two boys was something so loathsome, so repugnant, 72 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: so unhuman, that he was justified in threatening repeatedly to 73 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: kill a young family later, both Alex and Eugene won 74 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: entry to Sydney Boyce High, the selective public academy for 75 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: brilliant young men, where one of the kids in Eugene's 76 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: year was a young Johannes Leek. Leik and Alex didn't 77 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: meet at school. With twelve hundred students, it's a big place. 78 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: It wasn't until late twenty twenty four that Leak, now 79 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: forty four, called Alex up for a coffee. By then, 80 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: their link was gone. In twenty thirteen, Eugene, a thirty 81 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: two year old, high flying chief financial officer, the rational one, 82 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: the mathematician of the family, died of a brain tumor, 83 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: leaving his adoring younger brother Alex, the emotional, creative one, 84 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: shocked and grieving. 85 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 2: He was my best friend. He was the most important 86 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: person in my life, I would say the tame. 87 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 1: In the twelve years since Alex's career as a lawyer 88 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: brought him here, co Chief Executive of the Executive Council 89 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: of Australian Jury and one of the most powerfully articulate 90 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: of a new generation of Australian Jewish advocates, men and 91 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: women who think about what they would have done at 92 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: Babia or in the Warsaw Ghetto, and you hold the 93 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: crinkly hands of the Holocaust survivors, and you know it's 94 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: their turn to speak up. Alex Richin went back to 95 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: Babiyar a few years ago and walked on the grass 96 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: that covers the bodies of countless innocence. His own grandparents 97 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: escaped the massacre only because the Soviet army in retreat 98 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: had evacuated civilians shortly before Kiev fell to the Germans 99 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: in September nineteen forty one. 100 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 2: So the people that stayed behind were predominantly nursing mothers, 101 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 2: the old and the sick, the frail. And when the 102 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: Germans entered the city, they started plastering the city with 103 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 2: notices calling on the city's Jews to assemble at the 104 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: r for what they thought would be deportation, and then 105 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: over two days, thirty three thousand Jews were massacred in 106 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 2: that ravine. 107 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: The Nazis got a feel for tipping bodies into Bubbya, 108 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: and over the next two years it estimated another seventy 109 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: thousand people, including psychiatric patients, roma people, and prisoners of war, 110 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: were cast into the ravine. Like all of us Rifchin 111 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: looks at the cataclysmic moments of history and wonders what 112 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: would I have done if I'd been there. 113 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: I think in my youth I probably harbored romantic views 114 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,559 Speaker 2: of being a liberator, being a leader of some sort, 115 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 2: saving others, saving myself. But the more I've come to 116 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: understand the nature of the killing process, the nature of Nazism, 117 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 2: the extent of collaboration by the locals, and what actually happened, 118 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 2: I'm convinced that I would have been slaughtered like the 119 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 2: rest of them. I would have ended up in that ravine, 120 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 2: like everybody else. 121 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: All that is part of the swirl of emotion under 122 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: the surface. In January twenty twenty five, when the men 123 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: sit beneath the morning sun for their first live sitting 124 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: in that home study, Leak sketching with a pencil and 125 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: paper and taking photographs. So the plan go after and 126 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: in March they meet again, just hours before Leek has 127 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: to load the painting in a van and drive it 128 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: to the Art Gallery of New South Wales loading dock 129 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: for the big reveal. 130 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 3: So we hear in the news Court building in Holt 131 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 3: Street in Sydney, and I've had the painting delivered this 132 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 3: morning in its frame, and it looks great. Alex will 133 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 3: be seeing it for the first time. Any minute, did 134 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 3: you cover it? 135 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: After some nervous anticipation, Alex arrives, okay, I'm very excited. 136 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 2: Thanks for coming down, pleasure. 137 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: After some small talk, it's time to pull the cover 138 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: off the painting. 139 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 3: Wow. 140 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 4: Oh my god, wow wow, it's amazing. Thank you so much. 141 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 4: I thank you. I think for the first time ten 142 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 4: months without speech. 143 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: Riftin is clearly moved by this depiction of himself, With 144 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: that shaft of light drawing the viewer's gaze to his eyes, 145 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: and the backdrop a deep green that started with the 146 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: shade of the study cupboards and intensified Underleak's hand to 147 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: take on an energy of its own. Riftin stares at 148 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: the portrait, stepping close and backing away, grinning as he 149 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,559 Speaker 1: watches the face of his wife, Vicki, when she walks 150 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: in a few minutes later to have a look. Oh 151 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: my god, that's so amazing. 152 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 2: That somber Wow. 153 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,319 Speaker 1: I sit down and have a chat with Alex and Johannas. 154 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: I've experienced a lot in my life, in particular the 155 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: last eighteen months, but this is something that I've never 156 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 2: felt before. The only thing I can liken it too, 157 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 2: I think, is my wedding day. I had the same 158 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 2: kind of nervous anticipation on the way here, because in 159 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 2: Jewish tradition, on the wedding day you see the bride 160 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 2: before she walks down the aisle, you have to identify her. 161 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 2: And when I saw my wife Vicki on that day, 162 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 2: I just felt to pieces and it was a similar 163 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,839 Speaker 2: thing because in both case I've beheld great beauty. In 164 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 2: this occasion it was me. 165 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: There's self deprecation in that, just as in Leek's portrait 166 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: there is caricature. Of course, there is Rifftin's jaw is 167 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: a little stronger, his lips a little more prominent, his 168 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: nose and eyes are photorealistic. But the cartoonists instinct for 169 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: exaggeration cannot be suppressed. Here's Johanna's Leek. 170 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 3: Well, I suppose I've become quite practiced at reading faces, 171 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 3: taking features and interpreting them and then accentuating aspects. And 172 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 3: it's just that in my cartooning work, I do it 173 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 3: in a cruel sort of a way, and the object 174 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 3: there is satire, and it's a disrespectful art form. This 175 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 3: is my respectful art. I do feel this is what 176 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 3: I wanted. This is the expression I wanted. It's that 177 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:36,839 Speaker 3: combination of defiance but also vulnerability and also pain and 178 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 3: an awareness in those eyes of the gravity of this 179 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 3: awful time we're living in Australia at the moment, the 180 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,719 Speaker 3: anti Semitism that we're seeing all over the world, and 181 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 3: that's written on Alex's face. I noticed that before I 182 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 3: ever met him, you know, I saw it on his 183 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 3: TV appearances and I could hear it. It's something you 184 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 3: pick up and that's really what I wanted to capture. 185 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: Coming up the weight of history Alex Rifchin feels he 186 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: must carry. There are parts of the portrait that Leek 187 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: has left as bear canvas, on Rifchin's cuff and on 188 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: his shirt where the bright blankness was perfect as it was, 189 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: and as much of Alex Rifchin you can't see in 190 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: this picture. The tiny star of David He's had tattooed 191 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: inside his wrist, The fit young man who had Kanye 192 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: West on his workout playlist before West started fanboying. Adolf Hitlock, 193 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: the concerned dad of three whose daughter's daycare center was 194 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,719 Speaker 1: daubed with anti Semitic graffiti, whose former family home was 195 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: set on fire and splashed with red paint in a 196 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: string of racist attacks earlier this year. The painting came 197 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: together quickly, partly because it just flowed, and partly of necessity, 198 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: given Leek's commitments to this ravenous beast of a newspaper, 199 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: the demands each day to be fed with mountains of 200 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 1: words and pictures, videos and podcast episodes, ideas and emotions. 201 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: Leak's dad, Bill, who preceded him as The Australian's cartoonist, 202 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: was one of the Archibald's most popular portraitists and a 203 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: regular finalist. 204 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 5: But Bill's Australius rem Branch. He's our Warhol, our Jeff 205 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:44,599 Speaker 5: koons and I was absolutely gone cogsmack to hear we 206 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 5: will say Drew Canton. 207 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: That was Barry Humphrey's character Les Patterson, who Bill painted 208 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: for The Archibald in two thousand. Bill's other entries, including 209 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: depictions of Robert Hughes, GoF Whitlam, Donald Bradman, Tex Perkins 210 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: and others, won Packing Room honors and People's Choice awards, 211 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: but never the Big Prize. Johannas first entered the Archibald 212 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,239 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one with a depiction of conservative Aboriginal 213 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: politician jacint A Numpihim for Price, which was not selected 214 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: for the finalists exhibition, something that prompted outrage from some commentators. 215 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: Neatly that was matched by outrage from others when the 216 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: State Library of New South Wales subsequently bought Leek's portrait 217 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: of Price for its own collection. Some library staff told 218 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: The Guardian they didn't consider Price a significant New South 219 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: Wales figure, just. 220 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 3: Center in the language that we use these days, is 221 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 3: considered to be a controversial figure, a polarizing figure, even 222 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 3: though she's just a wonderful human being. But I'm sure 223 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 3: that played a role. I mean that the Archiebald has 224 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 3: been captured to some degree by progressive and I don't 225 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 3: think I'm expressing anything that's entirely out of left field there. 226 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 3: I think that's well and truly understood. But why try 227 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 3: and go with the grain when you can draw attention 228 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 3: to people who I think a lot of Australians do 229 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 3: support and they understand people like just sent her And 230 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 3: you know, we all saw that during the referendum she 231 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 3: resonates with people and that was my way of bringing 232 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 3: her to the fore and presenting her the way I 233 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 3: see her. And I suppose there's a similar situation. Just 234 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 3: because a particularly activist part of the arts community has 235 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 3: aligned themselves with the pro Palestinian cause doesn't mean that 236 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of ordinary Australians are 237 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 3: not looking at Alex and seeing his appearances and thinking 238 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 3: isn't he wonderful? Isn't he making sense? The archiboard should, 239 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 3: I think, reflect a broader cross section of artists perhaps 240 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 3: and the Australian experience in the Australian character, rather than 241 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 3: a narrow progressive activist agenda. So that's why we enter 242 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 3: and see how we go. 243 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: In the eighteen months since the October seven massacre of 244 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: Israelis by Hamas and the subsequent pounding of Gaza by Israel, 245 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: it's been arts organizations in Australia where anti Israel sentiment 246 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: has been the loudest. Kefis have been worn. Jewish artists 247 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: have been uninvited, deplatformed, doxed. 248 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 2: As someone who writes, I know what a piece of 249 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 2: art if I can call my writing that in a 250 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 2: lavish way, it's something that comes from deep within you, 251 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 2: and you're revealing yourself. You want people to interact with it, 252 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 2: to consume it, to debate it, and to be frozen 253 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 2: out and shut out merely because some of those views 254 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 2: or who you are perceived as a person doesn't align 255 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: with a particular political agenda. I think it's a travesty, 256 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 2: but it's also a tragedy that people have then frozen 257 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 2: out of doing what they love and what they want 258 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 2: to do, denied their livelihoods as well. But then when 259 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 2: I think about it at a kind of macro national level, 260 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 2: the Jewish people numerically a minuscule. There's little more than 261 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 2: one hundred thousand Jews in this country of twenty five million, 262 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 2: and we can't interact with ordinary Australians that much because 263 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 2: there's not that many of us. And the way that 264 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 2: we reveal who we are, the way that we put 265 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 2: forth our ideas and show our humanity is through our art, 266 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 2: through plays and literary works and paintings. And so when 267 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 2: Jews get frozen out and subjected to boycotts and shadow bands, 268 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 2: it's a way of expunging Jews from visibility and society. 269 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 2: I mean, most people haven't met a Jew, but they 270 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 2: may have seen a work of Eli Vizel or Isaac 271 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 2: Bishev Singer or Steven Spielberg or Jerry Seinfeld, and so 272 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: we need to keep fighting for this. I think it's 273 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 2: fundamentally important and that's why my own through Johanna's fore 274 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 2: end to this field. It's particularly meaningful. 275 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,239 Speaker 1: Even people who hadn't seen a piece of work by 276 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: a Jewish artists would have seen one that had come 277 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: into being thanks to Jewish philanthropy. Support for the arts 278 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 1: has been a cornerstone of Australian Jewish society for many decades. 279 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: Now there's an irony bear, isn't there that Jewish voices 280 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: are being silenced. 281 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, Jews have contributed to every aspect 282 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 2: of life in this country, and not for any tactical 283 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 2: or nefarious reason, as that detractors would have people believe. 284 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 2: It's because we deeply love this country and we want 285 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 2: to contribute to it. And you know, I speak to 286 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 2: that generation that came here after the Holocaust with nothing, 287 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 2: literally nothing, penniless and having lost their families in the 288 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 2: camps or the killing fields, and they made something of 289 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 2: themselves because of first of their own character, but also 290 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 2: because of what this country allows people to do and 291 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 2: to achieve, and they've always given back. They've always built 292 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 2: up this country. They've always contributed to the arts and 293 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 2: to medical research in all of these fields. And there 294 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 2: is a terrible irony, as you say, to the fact 295 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 2: that these people who've contributed so much out of a 296 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 2: love for this country are now being rejected. And I 297 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 2: think if that is allowed to happen, it'll be a 298 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: tragedy for Australia. We will be worse off as a country. 299 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 2: There's no question. 300 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if you'd be able to afford it, Alex, 301 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: great would you like to hang that on your walk? 302 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: Can you imagine it looking down at Yeah? 303 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 2: I mean I don't know what my wife would think 304 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 2: about having two of me in the home, but I 305 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 2: can gaze at that all day. 306 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Thank you so much, Thanks Claire. 307 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: The finalists for the Archibald Prize were announced on Thursday, 308 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: May one, after my chat with Johannas and Alex. Johannas's 309 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: portrait didn't make the final cut. You can see Johannas 310 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: Leek's portrait of Alex riftin right now at the Australian 311 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: dot Com dot a U slash review. The Archibald is 312 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: open at the Art Gallery of New South Wales from 313 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: ten May to seventeen August, and you can read critique 314 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: and analysis of the finalists and the winner anytime at 315 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 1: the Australian dot com. Thanks for joining us on the 316 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: front this week. Our team is Jasper Leak, who produced 317 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: and edited this episode, Kristin Amiot, Lead Sammerglu, Stephanie Coombs, 318 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: Tiffany Demack, Joshua Burton and me Claire Harvey.