WEBVTT - Fugitives in foreign lands 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:04.920 Now this gang that couldn't shoot straight, they did manage 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:07.240 to get in a car and go straight to the airport, 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:10.320 and then they got straight on a plane to Dubai. 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:13.640 And then they got straight off that plane and they vanished, 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:18.200 they disappeared. He's a good looking rooster, and he's a gangster, 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:21.120 and he's a camoncero, and he's a tough guy. But 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:25.400 he's also the suspect in two, not one, two wrong 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:31.000 victim homicides dating back to twenty seventeen. I'm Andrew Rule 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:35.000 is Life and Crimes Today. My colleague and I Mark Butler, 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:39.120 are looking at an interesting thing. We think it's interesting anyway. 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:43.440 It's the issue of bad people, or allegedly bad people, 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.400 who do things, or allegedly do things, and then scarper 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.400 they leave the country. They get on a big jet 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:54.960 plane these days, usually a jetplane, and they fly to 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.840 somewhere where they can hide out, often to a place 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:03.760 without an extradition treaty or with an extradition treaty that 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:07.959 is so slow, so full of red tape that they 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:11.800 know they can sort of dodge things, and often places 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:16.400 where the sufficient corruption, especially down at a low level, 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:20.039 that they can duck and dive and dodge the law 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:24.840 for years, if not forever. And of course some destinations 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:27.080 are better than others, and some are better than others 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.400 because some of these people are dual citizens and they 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.480 are able to go back to the country of their 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:37.600 birth or where their parents are from, countries where they 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:42.200 speak the language, and where they have some rights, and 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:47.240 often in some places those rights include the right not 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:51.960 to be extradited back to Australia to face inconvenient charges 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:56.440 of murder or drug trafficking or rape. Serious things like that, 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.279 the sort of crimes that used to get you hanged 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:03.560 in the good old what people used to call capital crimes. 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:09.400 So there's many of them. Sometimes the authorities swing and miss. 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:13.000 That happened back in the eighties with the Keystone Cops 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:18.520 pursuit of Robert Ozzy Bob Trimbli, who was on the 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:22.000 loose for six years after he was tipped off to 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:24.639 get the hell out of Sydney. He was tipped off 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:28.840 by a bent cop in nineteen eighty one who said, now, Bob, 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.280 if you want to give me some money, I can 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:33.280 tell you what to do. And Bob gave him some 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:34.960 money and he said, all you've got to do when 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.919 you exit the airport, is you just change your date 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:41.960 of burst slightly by one day if you like, on 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.520 the exit documents, and nobody's going to pick that up. 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.320 You will go through, your pass will go through, and 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:51.520 you will get out without being stopped. And that's all 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.320 it took back in that era for you to be 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:57.240 able to walk through customs. Which was very interesting because 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:00.520 Bob left town having been tipped off that he was 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.639 going to be arrested on major charges which I think 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:07.560 were not only big drug charges but murder conspiracy charges. 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:11.160 And he left town with his ever eleven girlfriend, am 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:15.000 Marie Presley, and I think her daughter. They went to 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.520 various places, but they ended up in Ireland, which was 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:21.920 where they were, and he was living under an Irish 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:25.680 name there. Some years later when the wicked Australian media 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:29.200 found out that he was there and sent reporters over there, 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.360 and one reporter fellow called Stephen Price. Steve Price is 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.480 well known to many of our listeners. I can recall 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:39.920 him filing a story from Ireland which had the introduction 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:44.120 and the headline, I slept in Robert Trimbowley's bed, and 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.360 that was either a high watermark or a low water 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:50.560 mark of journalism, I'm not sure which. The point was 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:53.680 that the journalists, the reporters were a little bit ahead 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:58.240 of the police, and trim Bowley and his girlfriend amed 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:02.240 Marie and the girl were able to stay one step 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:08.360 ahead of the Australian police, who were, let's say trying hard. 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:11.840 The Federal police, I think we're genuinely trying to catch him, 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:15.440 but they just weren't very good at it. And Trimboli 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:19.640 and his little entourage ended up leaving Ireland and going 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:23.880 to Spain. And you would think that finding them once 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.520 you had the trail will be a bit like tracking 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:30.880 an elephant through snow, But no, the Feds couldn't catch him, 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.680 and in the end, Robert Trimboli died of what he 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:37.120 had was terminal cancer at this stage. He died of 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.960 cancer in his own bed in Spain in nineteen eighty seven, 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.600 surrounded I think by some of his loved ones. They'd 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.880 actually managed to go there and be with him at 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.440 that time, which the police hadn't managed to do, and 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.320 this prompted interesting coverage. One of the reporters on the 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:59.920 job in those days was this company, this newspaper's wonderful 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.680 foreign correspondent Bruce Wilson, and Bruce Wilson was terrific. He's 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:05.960 no longer with us, but he was a great reporter. 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.120 And he wrote a story which said, if Robert Trimboli 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:14.360 is the most wanted man in the world, then the 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:18.880 second most wanted man can sleep very soundly indeed, and 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.040 I think that story had to be taken down and 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.120 sort of had to climb off at a bit because 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.239 the federal police got very upset, and a particular officer, 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.760 I think got a bit upset about it, but he 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.279 did make a fair point that they really hadn't done 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:36.880 a great job to catch Robert Trimboly. Trimboly is of 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:41.240 many that have got away and stayed away, and a 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.640 few have been brought back. Another one, of course, in 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.159 recent times, is our old mate, a modern Trimboli. Really 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:52.599 is our old friend Tony Mockbell, who some twenty odd 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.599 years later did a similar thing. He knew that he 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.599 had a lot of money, He was very well versed 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:02.720 in the ways of police, investigators and prosecutors and others, 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.800 and he got the tip off, probably from a lawyer, 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:09.720 that they were looking for him, or they were going 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:14.160 to charge him with something, and he vanished. He vanished, 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:17.440 as we all recall, where's he gone? He didn't turn 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.760 up to court whatever, and he was gone, and no 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.359 one knew. And there were all these wonderful theories and 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.400 wonderful rumors about where he gone or where he hadn't gone. 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.279 The reality was he'd actually gone up to Bonnie Dune, 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.440 where there is a lot of serenity, and he stayed 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:35.359 at Bonnie Dun in a little cabin where he was 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:39.920 visited by his girlfriend, Dannielle Maguire, who's an interesting person, 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.479 and they spent some months i think, up there on 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:50.240 and off. And then Tony Mockbell arranged for his associates, 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:52.800 who were very good at these things, to buy an 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:55.719 ocean going yacht, which they bought over on the east 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:59.239 coast of Australia, and they had it toad or taken 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:01.599 by truck all the way to the West coast, right 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:05.040 across another board, and then they took it to Fromantle 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:10.840 and Bell and his family or somebody's family. He made 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:13.280 sure he had a car load of people, and he 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.400 had a guy driving and a lady in the front seat, 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.360 and he was in the back seat pretending to be 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:23.720 a mute, metally deficient middle aged man. It was a 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:26.000 very good disguise, so he could just sit in the 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.800 back seat and not talk or say anything. And they 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:32.120 drove across the another board and they went to Fremantle, 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:36.000 and there he had these Greek sailors on his boat. 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:39.600 And the Greek sailors and a carpenter modified the boat 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:43.440 so they could hide a man his size under a 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:47.920 certain table or whatever it was without the custom sky's 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.640 finding it. Then they thought they might go to somewhere 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.360 a bit quieter, so they sailed the boat. The Greek 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.760 crew that manned the boat, they sailed it up to 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:00.400 the north, up to Kartha or something like that, the 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:05.320 top and the Kimberley, and meanwhile Tony and his mates 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:08.200 drove up and then he gets on the boat at 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:12.880 one of those northern ports where there's very sleepy sort 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:16.560 of customs, and he was able to get shut into 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:20.120 the little locker that he'd built. They sailed out into 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:24.200 the Indian Ocean, and after forty eight hours or something 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:29.160 he could get out of his little claustrophobic locker and 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.840 they sail right across the world to the Suez canal 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:35.600 where it would be a bit tricky for you if 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:39.760 you were not legit. But of course somehow he had 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.600 enough money to buy his way through, and he got 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:47.760 the grease. And that's where old Mockbell was hiding in Athens, 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:51.400 not in plain sight, but sort of. He I think 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:55.400 could speak Greek pretty well. He's of Lebanese extraction, but 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.800 I think he knew plenty of Greek and was comfortable there. 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:04.200 His great and good friend, who was pregnant, Danniel Maguire, 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:07.440 was to join him. Now, the police back here, we're 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:11.520 very keen on following her or having her followed overseas, 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.480 because they thought, well, if you let her go, that 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:19.880 she'll lead her to the man. And they had into Pole, 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.040 and they had Italian police and made all sorts of 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:27.000 interesting people following her when she went to Rome. And 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.520 there she's in Rome, and lo and behold she's with 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:34.600 another woman, with a female actor and Australian actress. And 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:38.160 they were meeting together in plain sight at a good 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.760 hotel in Rome, I think it was, and they were 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:45.400 being watched, which they probably realized was the case. And 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:50.160 Daniellie's wearing let's say, a red distinctive red coat. She 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:54.199 goes into the bathroom and comes back, and then the 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.240 friend goes into the bathroom, comes back, And what they 0:09:56.280 --> 0:10:00.880 actually did was change coats, so that when one comes 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.920 back wearing the coat, the watchers who were sitting two 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:07.400 hundred meters away think it's Dannielle, but it's not. It's 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:10.720 the actress. Meanwhile, the real Danielle has gone out the 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:14.800 back door of the hotel and skipped town, and she's 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.760 got across the border into the rest of Europe and 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:21.920 she's ended up happily with Tony for quite a while. 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.440 And so that is what has happened with the strange 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:30.960 case of Tony Mockbell. Long story short, it's quite possible 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:35.840 that Tony Mockbell would not have been caught except for 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:40.640 one thing. One of his former associates, or an associate 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:44.280 of his group back here in Australia, a man that 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:46.400 we will call the musician, because I think he was 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:50.480 a musician. He was close associated with these guys and 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:52.960 he was sort of trusted by them up to a point, 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:56.439 but he had a grievance. His grievance was that one 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.839 of his own family members had I think either if 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:03.520 he hadn't died of a heroin overdose, was at least 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:07.960 effectively a junkie. And this guy ended up not happy 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:13.440 with the Mockbell drug empire, but he was trusted by them. 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:17.040 And what he did. He had access to a laptop. 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:19.840 He was talking to one of the Mockbell Lift tenants 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:24.800 who was trusted with sending money to various dark accounts 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.079 around the world that Mockbell could access. And he had 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.440 phone numbers and stuff and it was all on one laptop. 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:35.360 And when this Mockbell liftenant, when this Mockbell heavy left 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:38.720 the room to go to the bathroom, the musician grabbed 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:43.160 a thumb drive, jammed into the computer and downloaded all 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:48.080 the material in it, including bank numbers, phone numbers on 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.319 all this stuff, puts it in his pocket. When the 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:54.240 guy comes back ninety seconds later, they just kept talking 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.120 and chatting about the soccer or whatever. He goes out 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:00.559 and he gives the police this information. It was that 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:05.600 that led the Melbourne police to Tony Mockbell in Greece 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:07.600 because straight away they said, well, he's the phone numbers, 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:12.000 this is the numbers using we can trace it to Athens, etc. 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:16.320 And we all know how that ended up. Tony's over 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:20.200 there wearing his very bad wig and he gets grabbed 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.440 by the Athens police who are working on behalf of 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:28.280 the Australian Police. It was a great piece of detection, 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.320 but all of it comes down to this insider tipping 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.800 the police off, and it would appear that had that 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:39.560 not happened, they may not have caught him. And the 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.480 point of saying that is that so many people that 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:47.559 have gone overseas have not been grabbed. They've stayed around 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.320 for years. It's easy to sort of crack jokes about 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.280 the Danniel mcguires and mock bells, but there's nothing funny 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:57.200 about what happens in most of these runaway criminal cases. 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.360 One of the worst of a long list unfolded almost 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.800 a year ago when a woman who's also a mother 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:08.600 of a young child vanished from her Point Cook home, 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:12.199 the one she shared with her husband, man she'd been 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:16.800 married to for twelve years now. This woman had migrated, 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:21.200 as her husband had, from India when they were young adults, 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.599 and I'm not sure if they got married here or 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:25.800 over there, but they come out as young adults and 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:29.280 I think they'd both become Australian citizens. The name that 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:35.120 she used mostly was Sweather Sweather Mattagani, and no one 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.840 knew that she had actually vanished on I think on 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:42.520 a Friday early in March last year, twenty twenty four. 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.800 The first that the police or anyone knew that she'd 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.800 vanished was that they got a call on Saturday morning, 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:54.400 March the ninth from India where they got a very 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.040 brief tip off to look for her. So police got 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.839 the tip off from India, they found and to swear 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.200 the Madigani's body in the bin around noon on a 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:08.000 Saturday in a wheelie bin down pasture along It turns 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:12.240 out that her husband, surprise surprise, his name is Ashok 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:18.079 raj Avari Kapala. He apparently had dumped it there before 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:22.200 flying to India the previous afternoon. Now it would appear 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:25.080 that there's no other solution to this because it was 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.520 him that tipped off the police from India. It would appear. 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.120 It seems that a taxi driver told the police a 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:37.240 few weeks later that the twitchy husband and a bewildered 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.240 little boy had gone to Melbourne Airport from Point Cook 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:45.480 by taxi in time on the Friday afternoon for an 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:50.240 afternoon flight to India. Now, the husband's in laws, that is, 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:54.960 the dead woman's parents, were woken up at four am 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.160 local time over there on that Saturday morning in the 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:02.960 city of Hydrobad and they heard the terrible news from 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:07.720 their son in law about their daughter's death. They heard 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.400 it directly from the only person in the world that 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:14.320 knew about it, which was their son in law, because 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:18.160 he told them that their daughter had sadly died while 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.520 he was trying to silence her while I having an argument. Now, 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:25.520 this would suggest I imagine that he's either smothered her 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.680 or strangled her. But regardless, he told them the story 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:33.600 that she was dead, and he confirmed that by tipping 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:37.560 off the police in Melbourne, who then went and found 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.000 the body. So it all ties together. That man then 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.360 left his in laws and vanished. He left the small 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.920 boy three year old boy with them with the grandparents 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:52.200 that the child probably hardly knew but anyway, and he 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:57.360 disappeared into the vast, sprawling city of Hyderabad or another 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.800 city nearby called Shannai, I think and various I think 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:06.880 this also. Bangalore, southern India has something like two hundred 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.240 and fifty million people and many big cities and many 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.200 small cities and many, many, many towns. It's a very 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.560 thickly populated place. It is the center of the Indian 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:21.080 IT industry. And this man, the husband in this case, 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:25.200 ashok Raj Vari Kapala, was a bit of an IT 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:29.760 expert and he was also bilingual. So our bad husband 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.840 is an IT expert. He worked in IT in Australia. 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:34.760 He was obviously pretty good at it. They had the 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.800 good house in Point Cook, they had the Mercedes Been 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:42.040 station wagon, they had the Mini Cooper car. They were 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.520 living the good life. So he's clearly a highly employable 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.000 sort of guy. And all he would have to do 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:52.280 in India probably is to manipulate his identity documents a 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.960 bit so that he was reasonably hard to track, but 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.560 he could probably still pick up work over there. The 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:03.120 reality would appear to be and the police do not 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:08.080 confirm or deny anything about extradition, and fair enough, the 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:10.960 police aren't in a position where they can talk about 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.240 who they get an extra diit or how or when, 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:17.720 and that's good, but it would appear that at best 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.960 it is a process that is long and slow and 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.119 a big problem full of red tape. You've got the 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.760 red tape in Australia, then you've got the world famous 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:31.440 red tape in India, a country that runs on red 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:36.200 tape apparently and has a very choked public service bureaucracy, 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:42.040 and everything is slow, and quite possibly things are only 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:47.919 marginally efficient if the right amount of bribes are paid. Maybe, 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.480 And it would seem that it will be a long 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.439 slow process to get that hussman back to Australia to 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:59.399 face what would be I think murder charges or manslaughter 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:03.960 charges if ever, that is, if he ever is brought 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:08.920 back at all. The smart money says that he may 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:13.080 never be because we have other cases. We had the 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:18.040 notorious case of pan Panit Panit was the young Indian 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:22.400 born guy that ran over someone here in South Bank, 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:25.399 just across the river from the CBD in Melbourne, killed 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.639 that person. Tragic case. Now some years ago he was 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.520 actually charged with that. I think he pleaded guilty and 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.520 he got bail, but he jumped bail. In two thousand 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:41.400 and nine, Panite used a friend's passport to get through 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:45.919 the airport and go to India, which beggars belief that 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:49.200 as recently as two thousand and nine the passports were 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:53.760 sufficiently primitive that that could happen, But apparently that was 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:58.200 the case. Having got to India, Panite has gone into 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:02.359 smoke and has never been hauled back to Australia to 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:07.399 serve out a significant sentence for culpable driving or whatever 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:12.480 the charge is. And there's various reasons for that. One 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.960 might be that he might get tipped off by local 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.040 authorities or something, if there's a move to get h 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.159 I don't know. He might have just been able to 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:25.240 assume a slightly different name in a country where there 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:29.040 are millions of people. And as one of my colleagues 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.840 pointed out to me, India is a place where thousands 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:36.840 of people a year are killed or severely injured on 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:42.160 the roads with traffic, cars, motorbikes, bikes, the whole catastrophe, 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.800 and it is not regarded over there as a particularly 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:51.080 serious thing, particularly serious offense. They accept it as a 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:53.159 fact of life that if you're out on the roads 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.399 you may well be run over and killed. And so 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:00.800 there is not that commitment to finding someone like him 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.280 that there would be here in Australia. So we have 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:10.400 cultural differences working against the Australian authorities. Indian security sources 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:15.160 have told me that it's possible for a resourceful fugitive 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:19.200 in India to get out of India one of two 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.640 obvious ways. They said, you could get a fishing butt 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:25.760 or a boat over to Sri Lanka and then work 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:28.440 your way around. You'd have to get false documents which 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:32.000 are gettable over there, or you could go to Nepal 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:36.320 by road. You could walk into Nepal. Probably again, you 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:40.320 could get false documents made up, even a passport made up, 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.680 that would be sufficient to get you out of India 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:49.520 into certain Southeast Asian countries. You wouldn't be able to 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:53.680 fly back to Australia or to Western countries because their 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:58.240 border controls are more sophisticated. But I was told by 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:03.480 this Indian security that there are some countries in Southeast 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:07.520 Asia where an Indian passenger on a plane would be 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:12.280 able to get through fairly easily with forged documents. That's 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:16.240 another possibility for what could happen to some of our 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:20.280 most wanted people. Now, we do have one example of 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:25.040 Australian police working very hard to get back some runaways 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:28.560 who committed a very bad crime in Melbourne. Now this 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:33.800 was the murder by three Thai Nationals of a nassy 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:38.800 guy called Luke Mitchell. Luke Mitchell, it was a notorious case. 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.760 He was a good samaritan. He was a chef. He's 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:44.240 twenty nine years old. He was out I think with 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:47.680 his sister in law and other friends in Brunswick one 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:50.959 night around nine, between nine and ten o'clock at night 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:55.600 or something, and they saw a disturbance in the street 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:59.640 in Sydney Road and was outside a massage parlor and 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:04.760 these three Thai guys had been aggressively harassing a woman. 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:08.000 Now I suspect it was all something to do with 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:12.480 the massage parlor, and maybe these were standover guys or something, 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:16.720 but the reality was that they were hassling this woman 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:20.439 and that a bystander thought that was very unpleasant and 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:24.280 had stepped in to try and protect the woman. And 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:28.600 then these three have turned on the bystander and roughed 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:33.240 him up. Luke Mitchell, good block, good samaritan, sees this 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:36.760 happen and he goes over to step in to prevent 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:40.680 these three guys from monstering the bystander, and he gets 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:43.040 in a fight with these guys and he's throwing punches 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:47.600 and I think probably acquitted himself pretty well, and then 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:50.639 he and his sister in law and friends walked up 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:54.040 the road not far to a seven eleven to buy 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:58.800 some cigarettes or whatever, coffee whatever. Meanwhile, the three tai 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:03.240 guys have gone off and got hold of knives and 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:08.600 a meat cleaver, which tells you something that probably they 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:12.680 were going around equipped to stand over people, and they 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:16.560 have come hunting for Luke Mitchell. They've come back armed 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:20.560 and they've attacked him. Three men have attacked Luke Mitchell 0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:26.000 with these weapons and they've stabbed him. They've knocked him over. 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:28.439 They've kicked him as well as stabbing him, and he 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:31.520 died of his wounds. He died in front of I 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:35.000 think fourteen witnesses. It was a terrible crime for a 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:37.960 good samaritan who was just trying to help someone else. 0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:43.359 The police were fairly quickly, fairly quickly able to identify 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:47.480 who these guys were from security cameras and stuff. But 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:50.400 by the time they did that, these guys had gone 0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:52.600 straight to the airport and jumped on a plane back 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:56.520 to Bangkok. On the way, it stopped in Hong Kong, 0:23:57.200 --> 0:24:00.640 proof that the police were fairly onto. It was that 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:02.919 the police found out they couldn't get them arrested in 0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:05.800 Hong Kong, but they could get them photographed, and they 0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:09.159 got photographs from the security people in Hong Kong and 0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:11.600 it showed these three guys. One of them had some 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:15.160 blood on him or something, or some cats or bruises 0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:18.879 or whatever, and it was clearly these three. And the 0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:23.240 police then went about the official process for looking for 0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:26.480 a needle in a haystack, and they approached the tie 0:24:26.480 --> 0:24:29.560 authorities and said, well, these three guys started up, they 0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:32.480 would have had their names. We want them back here 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:37.320 for this murder. And eventually, I think after three years 0:24:37.359 --> 0:24:42.240 of doing and frowing and official stuff and red tape, 0:24:42.600 --> 0:24:45.120 they identified them and got them back. Now, it took 0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:49.320 ultimately six years and three months, six years and three 0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:52.919 months from the murder until those three guys went to 0:24:53.000 --> 0:24:56.560 jail in Melbourne. Two of them got very big sentences 0:24:56.680 --> 0:25:00.320 I think twenty four years on the top. The third 0:25:00.359 --> 0:25:03.640 guy got well under twenty years because he gave evidence 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:08.760 against the other two. That was a good result, good 0:25:09.000 --> 0:25:13.560 gogged detective work by the Victorian police. I think it 0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:16.440 was Ron Iddle's back in that day that was handling 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:19.080 that and he and his team did a very good job. 0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:23.920