1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Now this gang that couldn't shoot straight, they did manage 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: to get in a car and go straight to the airport, 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: and then they got straight on a plane to Dubai. 4 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: And then they got straight off that plane and they vanished, 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: they disappeared. He's a good looking rooster, and he's a gangster, 6 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: and he's a camoncero, and he's a tough guy. But 7 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: he's also the suspect in two, not one, two wrong 8 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: victim homicides dating back to twenty seventeen. I'm Andrew Rule 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: is Life and Crimes Today. My colleague and I Mark Butler, 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: are looking at an interesting thing. We think it's interesting anyway. 11 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: It's the issue of bad people, or allegedly bad people, 12 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: who do things, or allegedly do things, and then scarper 13 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: they leave the country. They get on a big jet 14 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: plane these days, usually a jetplane, and they fly to 15 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: somewhere where they can hide out, often to a place 16 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: without an extradition treaty or with an extradition treaty that 17 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: is so slow, so full of red tape that they 18 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: know they can sort of dodge things, and often places 19 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: where the sufficient corruption, especially down at a low level, 20 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: that they can duck and dive and dodge the law 21 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: for years, if not forever. And of course some destinations 22 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: are better than others, and some are better than others 23 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: because some of these people are dual citizens and they 24 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: are able to go back to the country of their 25 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: birth or where their parents are from, countries where they 26 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: speak the language, and where they have some rights, and 27 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: often in some places those rights include the right not 28 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: to be extradited back to Australia to face inconvenient charges 29 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: of murder or drug trafficking or rape. Serious things like that, 30 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,279 Speaker 1: the sort of crimes that used to get you hanged 31 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: in the good old what people used to call capital crimes. 32 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: So there's many of them. Sometimes the authorities swing and miss. 33 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: That happened back in the eighties with the Keystone Cops 34 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: pursuit of Robert Ozzy Bob Trimbli, who was on the 35 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: loose for six years after he was tipped off to 36 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 1: get the hell out of Sydney. He was tipped off 37 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: by a bent cop in nineteen eighty one who said, now, Bob, 38 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: if you want to give me some money, I can 39 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: tell you what to do. And Bob gave him some 40 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: money and he said, all you've got to do when 41 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: you exit the airport, is you just change your date 42 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: of burst slightly by one day if you like, on 43 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: the exit documents, and nobody's going to pick that up. 44 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: You will go through, your pass will go through, and 45 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: you will get out without being stopped. And that's all 46 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: it took back in that era for you to be 47 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: able to walk through customs. Which was very interesting because 48 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: Bob left town having been tipped off that he was 49 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: going to be arrested on major charges which I think 50 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: were not only big drug charges but murder conspiracy charges. 51 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: And he left town with his ever eleven girlfriend, am 52 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: Marie Presley, and I think her daughter. They went to 53 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: various places, but they ended up in Ireland, which was 54 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: where they were, and he was living under an Irish 55 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: name there. Some years later when the wicked Australian media 56 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: found out that he was there and sent reporters over there, 57 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: and one reporter fellow called Stephen Price. Steve Price is 58 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: well known to many of our listeners. I can recall 59 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: him filing a story from Ireland which had the introduction 60 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: and the headline, I slept in Robert Trimbowley's bed, and 61 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: that was either a high watermark or a low water 62 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: mark of journalism, I'm not sure which. The point was 63 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: that the journalists, the reporters were a little bit ahead 64 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: of the police, and trim Bowley and his girlfriend amed 65 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: Marie and the girl were able to stay one step 66 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: ahead of the Australian police, who were, let's say trying hard. 67 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: The Federal police, I think we're genuinely trying to catch him, 68 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: but they just weren't very good at it. And Trimboli 69 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: and his little entourage ended up leaving Ireland and going 70 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: to Spain. And you would think that finding them once 71 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: you had the trail will be a bit like tracking 72 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: an elephant through snow, But no, the Feds couldn't catch him, 73 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: and in the end, Robert Trimboli died of what he 74 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: had was terminal cancer at this stage. He died of 75 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: cancer in his own bed in Spain in nineteen eighty seven, 76 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: surrounded I think by some of his loved ones. They'd 77 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: actually managed to go there and be with him at 78 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: that time, which the police hadn't managed to do, and 79 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: this prompted interesting coverage. One of the reporters on the 80 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: job in those days was this company, this newspaper's wonderful 81 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: foreign correspondent Bruce Wilson, and Bruce Wilson was terrific. He's 82 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: no longer with us, but he was a great reporter. 83 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: And he wrote a story which said, if Robert Trimboli 84 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: is the most wanted man in the world, then the 85 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: second most wanted man can sleep very soundly indeed, and 86 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: I think that story had to be taken down and 87 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: sort of had to climb off at a bit because 88 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,239 Speaker 1: the federal police got very upset, and a particular officer, 89 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: I think got a bit upset about it, but he 90 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: did make a fair point that they really hadn't done 91 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: a great job to catch Robert Trimboly. Trimboly is of 92 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: many that have got away and stayed away, and a 93 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: few have been brought back. Another one, of course, in 94 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: recent times, is our old mate, a modern Trimboli. Really 95 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: is our old friend Tony Mockbell, who some twenty odd 96 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: years later did a similar thing. He knew that he 97 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: had a lot of money, He was very well versed 98 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: in the ways of police, investigators and prosecutors and others, 99 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: and he got the tip off, probably from a lawyer, 100 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: that they were looking for him, or they were going 101 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 1: to charge him with something, and he vanished. He vanished, 102 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: as we all recall, where's he gone? He didn't turn 103 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: up to court whatever, and he was gone, and no 104 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: one knew. And there were all these wonderful theories and 105 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: wonderful rumors about where he gone or where he hadn't gone. 106 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: The reality was he'd actually gone up to Bonnie Dune, 107 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: where there is a lot of serenity, and he stayed 108 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 1: at Bonnie Dun in a little cabin where he was 109 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: visited by his girlfriend, Dannielle Maguire, who's an interesting person, 110 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 1: and they spent some months i think, up there on 111 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: and off. And then Tony Mockbell arranged for his associates, 112 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: who were very good at these things, to buy an 113 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: ocean going yacht, which they bought over on the east 114 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,239 Speaker 1: coast of Australia, and they had it toad or taken 115 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: by truck all the way to the West coast, right 116 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 1: across another board, and then they took it to Fromantle 117 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: and Bell and his family or somebody's family. He made 118 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: sure he had a car load of people, and he 119 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: had a guy driving and a lady in the front seat, 120 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: and he was in the back seat pretending to be 121 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: a mute, metally deficient middle aged man. It was a 122 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: very good disguise, so he could just sit in the 123 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: back seat and not talk or say anything. And they 124 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: drove across the another board and they went to Fremantle, 125 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: and there he had these Greek sailors on his boat. 126 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: And the Greek sailors and a carpenter modified the boat 127 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: so they could hide a man his size under a 128 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: certain table or whatever it was without the custom sky's 129 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: finding it. Then they thought they might go to somewhere 130 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: a bit quieter, so they sailed the boat. The Greek 131 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: crew that manned the boat, they sailed it up to 132 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: the north, up to Kartha or something like that, the 133 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: top and the Kimberley, and meanwhile Tony and his mates 134 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: drove up and then he gets on the boat at 135 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: one of those northern ports where there's very sleepy sort 136 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: of customs, and he was able to get shut into 137 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: the little locker that he'd built. They sailed out into 138 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: the Indian Ocean, and after forty eight hours or something 139 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: he could get out of his little claustrophobic locker and 140 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: they sail right across the world to the Suez canal 141 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: where it would be a bit tricky for you if 142 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: you were not legit. But of course somehow he had 143 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: enough money to buy his way through, and he got 144 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: the grease. And that's where old Mockbell was hiding in Athens, 145 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: not in plain sight, but sort of. He I think 146 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: could speak Greek pretty well. He's of Lebanese extraction, but 147 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: I think he knew plenty of Greek and was comfortable there. 148 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: His great and good friend, who was pregnant, Danniel Maguire, 149 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: was to join him. Now, the police back here, we're 150 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: very keen on following her or having her followed overseas, 151 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: because they thought, well, if you let her go, that 152 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: she'll lead her to the man. And they had into Pole, 153 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: and they had Italian police and made all sorts of 154 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: interesting people following her when she went to Rome. And 155 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: there she's in Rome, and lo and behold she's with 156 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: another woman, with a female actor and Australian actress. And 157 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: they were meeting together in plain sight at a good 158 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: hotel in Rome, I think it was, and they were 159 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: being watched, which they probably realized was the case. And 160 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: Daniellie's wearing let's say, a red distinctive red coat. She 161 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: goes into the bathroom and comes back, and then the 162 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: friend goes into the bathroom, comes back, And what they 163 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: actually did was change coats, so that when one comes 164 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: back wearing the coat, the watchers who were sitting two 165 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: hundred meters away think it's Dannielle, but it's not. It's 166 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: the actress. Meanwhile, the real Danielle has gone out the 167 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: back door of the hotel and skipped town, and she's 168 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: got across the border into the rest of Europe and 169 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: she's ended up happily with Tony for quite a while. 170 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: And so that is what has happened with the strange 171 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: case of Tony Mockbell. Long story short, it's quite possible 172 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: that Tony Mockbell would not have been caught except for 173 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: one thing. One of his former associates, or an associate 174 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: of his group back here in Australia, a man that 175 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: we will call the musician, because I think he was 176 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: a musician. He was close associated with these guys and 177 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: he was sort of trusted by them up to a point, 178 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 1: but he had a grievance. His grievance was that one 179 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: of his own family members had I think either if 180 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: he hadn't died of a heroin overdose, was at least 181 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: effectively a junkie. And this guy ended up not happy 182 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: with the Mockbell drug empire, but he was trusted by them. 183 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: And what he did. He had access to a laptop. 184 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: He was talking to one of the Mockbell Lift tenants 185 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: who was trusted with sending money to various dark accounts 186 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: around the world that Mockbell could access. And he had 187 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: phone numbers and stuff and it was all on one laptop. 188 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: And when this Mockbell liftenant, when this Mockbell heavy left 189 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: the room to go to the bathroom, the musician grabbed 190 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: a thumb drive, jammed into the computer and downloaded all 191 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: the material in it, including bank numbers, phone numbers on 192 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: all this stuff, puts it in his pocket. When the 193 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: guy comes back ninety seconds later, they just kept talking 194 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: and chatting about the soccer or whatever. He goes out 195 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,559 Speaker 1: and he gives the police this information. It was that 196 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: that led the Melbourne police to Tony Mockbell in Greece 197 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: because straight away they said, well, he's the phone numbers, 198 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: this is the numbers using we can trace it to Athens, etc. 199 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: And we all know how that ended up. Tony's over 200 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: there wearing his very bad wig and he gets grabbed 201 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: by the Athens police who are working on behalf of 202 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: the Australian Police. It was a great piece of detection, 203 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: but all of it comes down to this insider tipping 204 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: the police off, and it would appear that had that 205 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: not happened, they may not have caught him. And the 206 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: point of saying that is that so many people that 207 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: have gone overseas have not been grabbed. They've stayed around 208 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: for years. It's easy to sort of crack jokes about 209 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: the Danniel mcguires and mock bells, but there's nothing funny 210 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: about what happens in most of these runaway criminal cases. 211 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: One of the worst of a long list unfolded almost 212 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: a year ago when a woman who's also a mother 213 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: of a young child vanished from her Point Cook home, 214 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: the one she shared with her husband, man she'd been 215 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: married to for twelve years now. This woman had migrated, 216 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: as her husband had, from India when they were young adults, 217 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,599 Speaker 1: and I'm not sure if they got married here or 218 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: over there, but they come out as young adults and 219 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: I think they'd both become Australian citizens. The name that 220 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: she used mostly was Sweather Sweather Mattagani, and no one 221 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: knew that she had actually vanished on I think on 222 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: a Friday early in March last year, twenty twenty four. 223 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: The first that the police or anyone knew that she'd 224 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: vanished was that they got a call on Saturday morning, 225 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: March the ninth from India where they got a very 226 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: brief tip off to look for her. So police got 227 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,839 Speaker 1: the tip off from India, they found and to swear 228 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: the Madigani's body in the bin around noon on a 229 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: Saturday in a wheelie bin down pasture along It turns 230 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: out that her husband, surprise surprise, his name is Ashok 231 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 1: raj Avari Kapala. He apparently had dumped it there before 232 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: flying to India the previous afternoon. Now it would appear 233 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: that there's no other solution to this because it was 234 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: him that tipped off the police from India. It would appear. 235 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: It seems that a taxi driver told the police a 236 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: few weeks later that the twitchy husband and a bewildered 237 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: little boy had gone to Melbourne Airport from Point Cook 238 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: by taxi in time on the Friday afternoon for an 239 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: afternoon flight to India. Now, the husband's in laws, that is, 240 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: the dead woman's parents, were woken up at four am 241 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: local time over there on that Saturday morning in the 242 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: city of Hydrobad and they heard the terrible news from 243 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: their son in law about their daughter's death. They heard 244 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: it directly from the only person in the world that 245 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: knew about it, which was their son in law, because 246 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: he told them that their daughter had sadly died while 247 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: he was trying to silence her while I having an argument. Now, 248 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: this would suggest I imagine that he's either smothered her 249 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: or strangled her. But regardless, he told them the story 250 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: that she was dead, and he confirmed that by tipping 251 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: off the police in Melbourne, who then went and found 252 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: the body. So it all ties together. That man then 253 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: left his in laws and vanished. He left the small 254 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: boy three year old boy with them with the grandparents 255 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: that the child probably hardly knew but anyway, and he 256 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: disappeared into the vast, sprawling city of Hyderabad or another 257 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: city nearby called Shannai, I think and various I think 258 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: this also. Bangalore, southern India has something like two hundred 259 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: and fifty million people and many big cities and many 260 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: small cities and many, many, many towns. It's a very 261 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: thickly populated place. It is the center of the Indian 262 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: IT industry. And this man, the husband in this case, 263 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: ashok Raj Vari Kapala, was a bit of an IT 264 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: expert and he was also bilingual. So our bad husband 265 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: is an IT expert. He worked in IT in Australia. 266 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: He was obviously pretty good at it. They had the 267 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: good house in Point Cook, they had the Mercedes Been 268 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: station wagon, they had the Mini Cooper car. They were 269 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: living the good life. So he's clearly a highly employable 270 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: sort of guy. And all he would have to do 271 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: in India probably is to manipulate his identity documents a 272 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: bit so that he was reasonably hard to track, but 273 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: he could probably still pick up work over there. The 274 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: reality would appear to be and the police do not 275 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: confirm or deny anything about extradition, and fair enough, the 276 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: police aren't in a position where they can talk about 277 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: who they get an extra diit or how or when, 278 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: and that's good, but it would appear that at best 279 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: it is a process that is long and slow and 280 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: a big problem full of red tape. You've got the 281 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: red tape in Australia, then you've got the world famous 282 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: red tape in India, a country that runs on red 283 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: tape apparently and has a very choked public service bureaucracy, 284 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: and everything is slow, and quite possibly things are only 285 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 1: marginally efficient if the right amount of bribes are paid. Maybe, 286 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: And it would seem that it will be a long 287 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: slow process to get that hussman back to Australia to 288 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: face what would be I think murder charges or manslaughter 289 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: charges if ever, that is, if he ever is brought 290 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: back at all. The smart money says that he may 291 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: never be because we have other cases. We had the 292 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: notorious case of pan Panit Panit was the young Indian 293 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 1: born guy that ran over someone here in South Bank, 294 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: just across the river from the CBD in Melbourne, killed 295 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: that person. Tragic case. Now some years ago he was 296 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: actually charged with that. I think he pleaded guilty and 297 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: he got bail, but he jumped bail. In two thousand 298 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 1: and nine, Panite used a friend's passport to get through 299 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: the airport and go to India, which beggars belief that 300 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: as recently as two thousand and nine the passports were 301 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: sufficiently primitive that that could happen, But apparently that was 302 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: the case. Having got to India, Panite has gone into 303 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: smoke and has never been hauled back to Australia to 304 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: serve out a significant sentence for culpable driving or whatever 305 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: the charge is. And there's various reasons for that. One 306 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: might be that he might get tipped off by local 307 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: authorities or something, if there's a move to get h 308 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: I don't know. He might have just been able to 309 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: assume a slightly different name in a country where there 310 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: are millions of people. And as one of my colleagues 311 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: pointed out to me, India is a place where thousands 312 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: of people a year are killed or severely injured on 313 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: the roads with traffic, cars, motorbikes, bikes, the whole catastrophe, 314 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: and it is not regarded over there as a particularly 315 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: serious thing, particularly serious offense. They accept it as a 316 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: fact of life that if you're out on the roads 317 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: you may well be run over and killed. And so 318 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: there is not that commitment to finding someone like him 319 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: that there would be here in Australia. So we have 320 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 1: cultural differences working against the Australian authorities. Indian security sources 321 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: have told me that it's possible for a resourceful fugitive 322 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: in India to get out of India one of two 323 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: obvious ways. They said, you could get a fishing butt 324 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: or a boat over to Sri Lanka and then work 325 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: your way around. You'd have to get false documents which 326 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: are gettable over there, or you could go to Nepal 327 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: by road. You could walk into Nepal. Probably again, you 328 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: could get false documents made up, even a passport made up, 329 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: that would be sufficient to get you out of India 330 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: into certain Southeast Asian countries. You wouldn't be able to 331 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: fly back to Australia or to Western countries because their 332 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: border controls are more sophisticated. But I was told by 333 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: this Indian security that there are some countries in Southeast 334 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: Asia where an Indian passenger on a plane would be 335 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: able to get through fairly easily with forged documents. That's 336 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: another possibility for what could happen to some of our 337 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: most wanted people. Now, we do have one example of 338 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: Australian police working very hard to get back some runaways 339 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: who committed a very bad crime in Melbourne. Now this 340 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: was the murder by three Thai Nationals of a nassy 341 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: guy called Luke Mitchell. Luke Mitchell, it was a notorious case. 342 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: He was a good samaritan. He was a chef. He's 343 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: twenty nine years old. He was out I think with 344 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 1: his sister in law and other friends in Brunswick one 345 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,959 Speaker 1: night around nine, between nine and ten o'clock at night 346 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: or something, and they saw a disturbance in the street 347 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: in Sydney Road and was outside a massage parlor and 348 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: these three Thai guys had been aggressively harassing a woman. 349 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: Now I suspect it was all something to do with 350 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: the massage parlor, and maybe these were standover guys or something, 351 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: but the reality was that they were hassling this woman 352 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,439 Speaker 1: and that a bystander thought that was very unpleasant and 353 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: had stepped in to try and protect the woman. And 354 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: then these three have turned on the bystander and roughed 355 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: him up. Luke Mitchell, good block, good samaritan, sees this 356 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: happen and he goes over to step in to prevent 357 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: these three guys from monstering the bystander, and he gets 358 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: in a fight with these guys and he's throwing punches 359 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: and I think probably acquitted himself pretty well, and then 360 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: he and his sister in law and friends walked up 361 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: the road not far to a seven eleven to buy 362 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: some cigarettes or whatever, coffee whatever. Meanwhile, the three tai 363 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: guys have gone off and got hold of knives and 364 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: a meat cleaver, which tells you something that probably they 365 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: were going around equipped to stand over people, and they 366 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: have come hunting for Luke Mitchell. They've come back armed 367 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: and they've attacked him. Three men have attacked Luke Mitchell 368 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: with these weapons and they've stabbed him. They've knocked him over. 369 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: They've kicked him as well as stabbing him, and he 370 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: died of his wounds. He died in front of I 371 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: think fourteen witnesses. It was a terrible crime for a 372 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: good samaritan who was just trying to help someone else. 373 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: The police were fairly quickly, fairly quickly able to identify 374 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: who these guys were from security cameras and stuff. But 375 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: by the time they did that, these guys had gone 376 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: straight to the airport and jumped on a plane back 377 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: to Bangkok. On the way, it stopped in Hong Kong, 378 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: proof that the police were fairly onto. It was that 379 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 1: the police found out they couldn't get them arrested in 380 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: Hong Kong, but they could get them photographed, and they 381 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: got photographs from the security people in Hong Kong and 382 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: it showed these three guys. One of them had some 383 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: blood on him or something, or some cats or bruises 384 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: or whatever, and it was clearly these three. And the 385 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: police then went about the official process for looking for 386 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: a needle in a haystack, and they approached the tie 387 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: authorities and said, well, these three guys started up, they 388 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: would have had their names. We want them back here 389 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: for this murder. And eventually, I think after three years 390 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: of doing and frowing and official stuff and red tape, 391 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 1: they identified them and got them back. Now, it took 392 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: ultimately six years and three months, six years and three 393 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 1: months from the murder until those three guys went to 394 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: jail in Melbourne. Two of them got very big sentences 395 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: I think twenty four years on the top. The third 396 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: guy got well under twenty years because he gave evidence 397 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: against the other two. That was a good result, good 398 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: gogged detective work by the Victorian police. I think it 399 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: was Ron Iddle's back in that day that was handling 400 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: that and he and his team did a very good job. 401 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: Sometimes the hunt is doomed from the start. Years ago, 402 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: homicide investigators identified Chinese students as suspects in a murder 403 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: at box Hill, but these students were gone by the 404 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: time they confirmed who they were. This is very intriguing. 405 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: These Chinese students. You wouldn't sort of think of them 406 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: as going around murdering other people. You would wonder whether 407 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: perhaps they were operatives of the Chinese government. You would 408 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: suspect that would or not. And by the time the 409 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: police worked out who they were, or you know, who 410 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: they allegedly were, they were gone back. And as one 411 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: policeman said, once that happened, you can kiss it goodbye. 412 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: You'll just never find them. And that's what happened. They 413 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: were never found, never seen again, and the murder remained unsolved. 414 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 1: Probably even more disturbing in some ways because it's more 415 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: public and therefore more dangerous to most of us walking around, 416 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: was the escape of the shooters who sprayed Sam. The 417 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: punisher Abdul Rahim. So this is back in twenty twenty two. 418 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: This is the case where he's gone to his cousin's 419 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: funeral at Faulkner Cemetery. He's driving out in a very 420 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: slow convoy behind the hearse or whatever, and up comes 421 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: a stolen the masdra I think it was SUV, and 422 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: they spray his Mercedes Wagon, his g wagon with a 423 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: massive amount of lead fired from a machine pistol, I think, 424 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 1: And it broke the windows of his car and it 425 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: sprayed him across his chain. I'll never forget that news 426 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: photo of his chest later published, where his chest had 427 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: been stitched with three or four bullets and it hadn't 428 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: killed him. It was an amazing thing. Those lunatics then 429 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,719 Speaker 1: drove off. They actually hit a fire hydrant nearby outside 430 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: of service station. One of the lunatics there around a 431 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: young guys has run over and dived into a skip 432 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: full of cardboard boxes, hidden under the cardboard boxes for 433 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: all of about five seconds, and then come out of 434 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: the skip deciding it wasn't a good idea. While he 435 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: was doing this, the jumper that he artfully put over 436 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 1: his head so no one could see who he was 437 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: came off his face, so the security footage that was 438 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: at the service station showed his face, so that wasn't great. Meanwhile, 439 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: his mates run away doing much the same sort of thing. Now, 440 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: this gang that couldn't shoot straight. They did manage to 441 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: get in a car and go straight to the airport, 442 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 1: and then they got straight on a plane to Dubai, 443 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: and then they got straight off that plane and they vanished. 444 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: They disappeared. Presumably they've been looked after over there by 445 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: some Middle Eastern crime paymaster, the same one who may 446 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: well have been paying them to shoot Sam abdul Rahim. 447 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 1: Sam abdul Rahim, who of course just recently has been 448 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: shot dead at long last after several attempts on his life. 449 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: The reality is that although the police were able to 450 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: arrest some other peripheral people here in Melbourne who were 451 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: somehow associated with the bad guys, the two shooters got 452 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: on a plane, got to Dubai and have vanished. And 453 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: the betting is that they will never come back and 454 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: will never be brought back. That is just my tip. 455 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: Who would know The police and the Feds and everybody 456 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,959 Speaker 1: else might be working on getting them out as we speak. 457 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: It's hard to know. Then there is the good looking dude, 458 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: common cheero, heavy, former male model. His name is Hassan 459 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: to Paal. Now he hasn't been seen in Melbourne or 460 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: in Australia since twenty nineteen because he took a sudden 461 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: flight overseas for the good of his health. He left 462 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: behind here a string of shooting victims, most of them 463 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: the wrong victims and very interested police. Now to Pahl 464 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: has been having a good time in the country of 465 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: his four bears in Turkey while arresting arrest or an 466 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: ambush back here. I think he's managing to do business 467 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: from over there remotely as these guys do. He's a 468 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: good looking rooster, and he's a gangster, and he's a 469 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: commonchero and he's a tough guy. But he's also the 470 00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: suspect in two, not one, two wrong victims homicides dating 471 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: back to twenty seventeen. He's not going at the assassination 472 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: kaper he gets the wrong people. The target in one 473 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: incident was the late Mohammad Afghan Ali Keshtiar, who was 474 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: marked to die down at Nari Warren at a house 475 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: where he lived. Then the shooter, whoever it was, watched 476 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: the assignment and shot an innocent visitor, a bloke called 477 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: Zabi Estja. This was a lucky break for the intended victim, 478 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: Afghan Aali, but it wasn't a permanent stay of execution 479 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: because of course, Afghan Ali Keshtiar was shot dead in 480 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: Southierra some time later. Our friend Hasanto Pal meanwhile was 481 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: also involved allegedly in shooting at several bandidos as they 482 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: rode their motorbikes I think across the Balti Bridge and 483 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: didn't manage to bowl any of them over, but created 484 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: a lot of problem there, a lot of fear and 485 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: angst and friction, and ultimately he decided he should leave 486 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: Australia while the going was good, and I suspect that 487 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: he will probably stay in Turkey or some other countries 488 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: over there for a long long time. Any case in 489 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: which the suspects have not even been charged or interviewed 490 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: makes extradition even more difficult than in the Panate case. 491 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: It's really hard to do and the police do the 492 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: best they can with what they've got, but it's not easy. 493 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: But as they say, time is on their side. Time 494 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: wounds all heels. One Middle Eastern organized crime figure and 495 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: former Australian businessman who fled Australia to escape the police 496 00:31:54,760 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: heat returned a decade later without any struggle of all 497 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: because he was in a coffin. So a man left 498 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: Australia to get away from the police and after a 499 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: decade he came home in a coffin and he received 500 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: an extraordinarily lavish funeral because in fact he was a 501 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: very big drug trafficker and they always have big funerals. 502 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Life and Crimes is a Sunday Herald 503 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: Sun production for true crime Australia. Our producer is Johnty Burton. 504 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: For my columns, features and more, go to Heroldsun dot 505 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: com dot au forward slash Andrew rule one word. For 506 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: advertising inquiries, go to news podcasts sold at news dot 507 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: com dot au. That is all one word news podcasts sold. 508 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: And if you want further information about this episode, links 509 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: are in the description.