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Speaker 1: Sarah Game, who is One Nation MP in State Parliament

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Speaker 1: in the Upper House, is calling in fact, has legislation

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Speaker 1: before the Parliament now in where she wants parents to

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Speaker 1: have the say on whether children go down to gender

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Speaker 1: path in schools. She doesn't want gender teachings gender lessons

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Speaker 1: in schools. And I asked Sarah to come on and

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Speaker 1: talk about it this morning. She's unable to, but she

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Speaker 1: pointed me to an interview on Sky News she gave

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Speaker 1: some months ago in fact, which still stands up today,

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Speaker 1: the day she introduced the legislation which will be voted

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Speaker 1: on later in the year. And the legislation aims to

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Speaker 1: take gender teaching out of schools and leave it up

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Speaker 1: to parents to decide and work with their children on

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Speaker 1: gender rather than schools. This is the interview she gave

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Speaker 1: on Sky News sometime back.

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Speaker 2: What I've done is today actually introduce into Parliament a

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Speaker 2: piece of legislation that would remove the teaching of gender

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Speaker 2: fluidity in the curriculum and restore all matters of moral

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Speaker 2: and ethical teaching back to parents. I mean, Andrew, parents

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Speaker 2: have never put their hands up and said, look, we

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Speaker 2: can't do this, we want government to take over. Most

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Speaker 2: parents are loving parents, and I believe that parents should

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Speaker 2: be in charge of the morals and ethical teaching of

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Speaker 2: their children, and that includes this issue of gender fluidity

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Speaker 2: for which there is no evidence. For my mom, I've

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Speaker 2: got three kids. It is about actually preserving the well

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Speaker 2: being of our young people. But also, since I've been

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Speaker 2: in politics over the last couple of years, I've listened

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Speaker 2: to my constituents and I would say this is not

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Speaker 2: a right wing view, this is a responsible view. The vast,

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Speaker 2: vast majority of people, certainly here in South Australia, they've

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Speaker 2: communicated they want the removal of gender fluidity teaching within

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Speaker 2: the curriculum. And certainly I've had many conversations confidentially with

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Speaker 2: principles who are also very concerned about what's being taught

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Speaker 2: in the school curriculum. It's a standard part of the

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Speaker 2: Year seven curriculum to teach all children about the gender

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Speaker 2: unicorn or the genderbread man, where children are asked to

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Speaker 2: consider whether their biology matches how they feel in their

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Speaker 2: heart and in their brain. And I would say we

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Speaker 2: shouldn't be bringing this to the attention of our young people.

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Speaker 2: Schools are there to encourage and aspiration and in gender

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Speaker 2: ambition in our young people, and I really believe that

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Speaker 2: all matters of morals and ethics need to be run

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Speaker 2: by parents, and that's exactly what this piece of legislation does.

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Speaker 2: Nothing of a moral ethical nature would be presented to

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Speaker 2: children without that content first being approved by the parents,

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Speaker 2: by the primary caregivers, and there would be no teaching

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Speaker 2: of gender fluidity, because we need a curriculum based on evidence.

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Speaker 2: The primary concern here really is that when we have

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Speaker 2: a child in distress, parents, I mean the vast, vast

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Speaker 2: majority of parents are loving parents. They need that connection

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Speaker 2: with their children. And when you have a child who

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Speaker 2: is suffering or in some sort of mental anguish, I think,

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Speaker 2: without some evidence to the contrary that that parent is

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Speaker 2: not responsible, it really needs to be back to the

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Speaker 2: parents to say, look, this is how we need to

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Speaker 2: manage my child at the moment. Because what I'm concerned about,

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Speaker 2: what I'm hearing is family breakdown and friction within families

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Speaker 2: because schools are able to take control and schools are

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Speaker 2: able to exclude parents from these conversations, and I think

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Speaker 2: that's a very dangerous thing. Certainly, there's an enormous amount

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Speaker 2: of community support. When I first started talking about the

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Speaker 2: removal of gender fluidity from the curriculum and putting all

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Speaker 2: matters of roles and ethics back with parents or primary caregivers.

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Speaker 2: There was a poll and the Advertiser actually on this

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Speaker 2: proposal that I had, and it achieved eighty to ninety

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Speaker 2: percent of people in agreement. And that's why I say

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Speaker 2: it's not a right wing view, it's a majority of view,

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Speaker 2: it's a responsible view, and so certainly within the community.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of support within Parliament. I believe that

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Speaker 2: the Liberal Party are very open minded, You're supporting this

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Speaker 2: piece of legislation, and I also believe there will be

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Speaker 2: some support from the crossbench. Unfortunately, when you have a

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Speaker 2: Labor government and you have the level of Green's presence

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Speaker 2: that we have here, it's unlikely to get through, but

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Speaker 2: it's still worth putting up and it's still worth applying

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Speaker 2: pressure to the Parliament.

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Speaker 1: So that's Sarah Game. I asked her to come on

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Speaker 1: this morning those comments from Sky News some time ago,

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Speaker 1: but still stands by what she said there. And that's

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Speaker 1: the aim of the legislation that will be voted on

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Speaker 1: in I understand in the next month or so. It's

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Speaker 1: due to reach a vote by the end of the year.

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Speaker 1: Bleir Boyer is the Education Minister and he joins me

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Speaker 1: in our minister, good morning.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, Matthew.

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Speaker 1: Well, is there a place for gender education in schools?

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Speaker 1: Why shouldn't it be up to the parents to control this?

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Speaker 3: Well, a couple of things I'd say about that, And

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Speaker 3: there's a lot to unpack from that audio from Sarah

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Speaker 3: Gain And I think it's a bit of a shame,

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Speaker 3: Matthew that she hasn't come on the program herself to

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Speaker 3: talk about the questions about the bill that she's proposing.

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Speaker 3: But nonetheless I'm here and I shall do my best.

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Speaker 3: I think absolutely there is a need for education around

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Speaker 3: sexual health and all those sorts of things that are

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Speaker 3: part of the national curriculum. And I want to just

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Speaker 3: make that point clear, Matthew from the outset that what

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Speaker 3: Siarrah is proposing here would be a change not just

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Speaker 3: to the South Australian curriculum in terms of how we

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Speaker 3: teach these things, but it would be a change nationally

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Speaker 3: as well, because the curriculum now is an Australian curriculum.

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Speaker 3: It has been that way for a long time. In fact,

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Speaker 3: I think we're up to version nine now. And I

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Speaker 3: think also it is a dangerous place for politicians to

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Speaker 3: tread when they want to involve themselves in deciding exactly

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Speaker 3: what it is that children in schools primary or secondary

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Speaker 3: should be taught and taking that decision making out of

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Speaker 3: the hands of our education experts and teaches.

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Speaker 1: You agree though, and most parents would say this. I

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Speaker 1: know that schooling should be about learning to read, learning

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Speaker 1: to count, you know, geography, history, science, the basics of

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Speaker 1: education if you like.

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Speaker 3: And it still is all that stuff is, so why

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Speaker 3: do it's important?

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Speaker 1: Why do we tell them about gender? Isn't that up

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Speaker 1: to the parents to do well?

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Speaker 3: Listen to parents have let me say very clearly to

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Speaker 3: parents still have a very very important role. Absolutely, And

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Speaker 3: the policy with all these things and the way that

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Speaker 3: it actually works in a real world sence Matthew out

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Speaker 3: there is that schools do talk to parents about all

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Speaker 3: this kind of stuff. Schools will always seek to support

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Speaker 3: families often provide referrals to other agencies for further support,

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Speaker 3: whether it's financial support or to health professionals. In the

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Speaker 3: first instance, families do play the central role in working

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Speaker 3: with the school on any issue, including issues around gender,

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Speaker 3: and the policy to which Sarah has referred in her comments,

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Speaker 3: is really the policy that has existed since twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 3: a long time, and continues to exist in what would

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Speaker 3: be extremely rare circumstances. And when I say extremely rare,

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Speaker 3: I'm not really personally aware of situations where it's had

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Speaker 3: to be used where agreement cannot be reached between the

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Speaker 3: child and the family and the school feels that there

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Speaker 3: is issues around well being and mental health at stake.

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Speaker 3: And I might just make a point because I know

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Speaker 3: that Sarah is a strong advocate on mental health to

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Speaker 3: be commended, but transgender people aged between fourteen and twenty

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Speaker 3: five fifteen times fifteen times more likely to attempt suicide

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Speaker 3: the general population. That's from the National Mental Health and

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Speaker 3: Suicide Prevention Strategy. That's what schools are dealing with. Like

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Speaker 3: schools are the one who haves to find a way

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Speaker 3: to make it work, and when it comes to public education,

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Speaker 3: that's for everyone. Everyone has to be supported and we

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Speaker 3: need to find a way to do that. But to

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Speaker 3: suggest that schools are kind of there arbitrarily making decisions

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Speaker 3: to block parents out and not work with families isn't true.

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Speaker 3: There's a huge process which I think, for the most

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Speaker 3: part works very very successfully that you don't hear about.

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Speaker 3: And then in very rare circumstances where that agreement can't

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Speaker 3: be reached between the child, their parents and the school,

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Speaker 3: this is the policy that is that is in play

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Speaker 3: if that can't be done. So I do absolutely support

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Speaker 3: and want to protect the role of parents. It's an

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Speaker 3: important one. But we've got to be real about this matter.

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Speaker 3: Because I've been on your program lots of times around

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Speaker 3: some of the more unsavory things that happen in our

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Speaker 3: schools aren't always getting that support at home.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is true.

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Speaker 3: Pretend otherwise. To pretend otherwise is quite silly, frank.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not every family is functional. There's there's no doubt

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Speaker 1: about that. And if it was excellent, operations like Operation

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Speaker 1: Flinders wouldn't exist and there wouldn't be a need for it.

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Speaker 1: But exactly, there's a lot that goes on behind closed doors.

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Speaker 1: It's absolutely tragic. There's no doubt about that. So you,

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Speaker 1: Adam and she made the point. Sarah Gay made the

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Speaker 1: point in that that some schools or schools are locking

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Speaker 1: parents out of these discussions. You're saying that's not right.

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Speaker 3: No, Well, I mean that's and that shouldn't be happening,

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Speaker 3: especially in the first instance, if it's an issue, for instance,

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Speaker 3: about you know, the gender of the student, and the

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Speaker 3: student has made their views clear to the school, perhaps

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Speaker 3: the school absolutely is duty bound, as they are with

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Speaker 3: the teaching of things like sexual education, to let parents

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Speaker 3: know that it's going to be taught and give them

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Speaker 3: the opportunity in the case of sex fed to not

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Speaker 3: have their kids present, and in the discussion around perhaps gender,

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Speaker 3: to try to work with the family to come to

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Speaker 3: an agreement. And I can tell your hand on half

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Speaker 3: in the vast majority of cases that works very successfully

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Speaker 3: right around Australia in putting sales. But there would be

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Speaker 3: some cases, none that I am aware of, where that

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Speaker 3: perhaps an agree McCarthy reached. And when you look back

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Speaker 3: at that incredibly high attempted suicide rate amongst transgender young people,

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Speaker 3: the school is in a very tricky place then, where

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Speaker 3: they are trying to support the well being and mental

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Speaker 3: health of the young person who is at the school

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Speaker 3: and trying to negotiate the dispute between the child and

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Speaker 3: the parent around around issues of gender, and at some

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Speaker 3: point they need some kind of guiding document from the

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Speaker 3: powers that be at thirty one plindustry to say, well,

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Speaker 3: in those incredibly rare situations, this is the process you

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Speaker 3: should follow. But to suggest that this is something which

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Speaker 3: is out there being deployed every set in today is

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Speaker 3: absolutely not true. In that audio from Sarah, she spoke

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Speaker 3: about principles who have come to her who are concerned

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Speaker 3: about the curriculum. I've always said to Sarah and anyone

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Speaker 3: else who says that to me, you give me details,

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Speaker 3: i will speak personally to those principles. I will speak

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Speaker 3: personally to those. I've done it with parents as well.

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Speaker 3: But often what I find is when we dig down,

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Speaker 3: a lot of it tends to be anecdotal kind of

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Speaker 3: data or anecdotal stories and the actual original or kind

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Speaker 3: of accusation or allegation can't be substantiated. But I'm very

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Speaker 3: open and willing to have those conversations as ministers, as

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Speaker 3: a minister with people and with parents around what their

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Speaker 3: concerns are. But it's important that we just remember that

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Speaker 3: this is not South Australia going out on its lonesome

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Speaker 3: here doing our own thing. We have a set national

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Speaker 3: curriculum that we do follow and that this policy that

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Speaker 3: we're discussing and debating today is one that has been

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Speaker 3: in place for eight years now under both labor and

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Speaker 3: liberal governments, and I think, for the most part has

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Speaker 3: operated very efficiently and well, and I would say is

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Speaker 3: very infrequently used.

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Speaker 1: And this policy, I mean, there's the teachings in schools.

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Speaker 1: It includes as she said, they're the gender bred person,

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Speaker 1: the gender unicorn. Is is that appropriate in schools?

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Speaker 3: Well? That again, these are things that are taught I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, both nationally as part of and then important

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Speaker 3: distinction to be made here, Matthew between those who say

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Speaker 3: that schools are promoting gender ideology or something, because the

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Speaker 3: promotion of things is different to the teaching of things

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Speaker 3: to let kids know they exist. And I want to

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Speaker 3: make that point for ex fecial listeners. It's not our place,

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Speaker 3: as a public education system or a teachers place to

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Speaker 3: be out there promoting things saying, you know, as in

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Speaker 3: trying to kind of encourage or persuade kids to do

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Speaker 3: a certain thing or think a certain way. Our job

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Speaker 3: is to educate and give facts. And you know, there's

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Speaker 3: things like discussions around gender and the terms people use

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Speaker 3: to refer to themselves and their gender are things we

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Speaker 3: let kids know at school because it is real. It

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Speaker 3: is the real world, and our schools are very much

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Speaker 3: a reflection of the real world. But it is not

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Speaker 3: ideologically taught in the sense that our staff are in

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Speaker 3: a classroom, you know, waving some kind of flag promoting

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Speaker 3: to kids that this is what they should a certain

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Speaker 3: way of their thinking. We are doing the right thing

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Speaker 3: and educating our young people in schools about the world

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Speaker 3: and making sure that those young people who you know

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Speaker 3: might be transgender, for instance, actually get the support that

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Speaker 3: they need because they're probably grappling with some pretty serious

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Speaker 3: mental health challenges. And the stats bear that out. It's

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Speaker 3: that incredibly high attempted suicide, right, I mean, fifteen times

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Speaker 3: more likely than the general populations. And what do I say

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Speaker 3: to fair, as someone who is passionate about mental health,

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Speaker 3: We've got to keep this in mind and make sure

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Speaker 3: we support our educators out there and staff to have

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Speaker 3: a bit of a toolkit to know what to do

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Speaker 3: with those situations.

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Speaker 1: We talk about real world, and you know the real world.

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Speaker 1: These days, kids going to school hungry because there's no

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Speaker 1: food in the hound. Parental violence against teachers and principles

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Speaker 1: arise in dysfunctional families. I mean, schools have almost become

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Speaker 1: de facto welfare officers and ment slash mental health, social security.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's.

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Speaker 3: Every teacher, every teacher, sorry interrupting, but every teacher listening

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Speaker 3: to this segment would be nodding their head to what

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Speaker 3: you just said.

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Speaker 1: You must almost be lamenting that change. As education minister.

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Speaker 1: It's not just the three hours anymore.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, you could not be more right on that. I

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Speaker 3: can tell you it is not without frustration for me

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Speaker 3: as minister. I'm sure if my predecession is not the

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Speaker 3: same way that, and I know our principles and staff

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Speaker 3: do that. You know, the amount of stuff that is

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Speaker 3: heaped onto the plate of our education system now that

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Speaker 3: is their problem to solve is so exponentially greater than

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Speaker 3: it used to be. And with every new thing that

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Speaker 3: comes along, you know, whether it's social media or mobile

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Speaker 3: phones or something, first instinct as a society, Matthew is

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Speaker 3: to turn to schools and say, what what are you

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Speaker 3: doing about it? But it's incredibly you know, our schools

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Speaker 3: take it on, they do take it on. But I

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Speaker 3: guess my message is that, you know, for instance, to

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Speaker 3: thinking about this yesterday when the story story sort of

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Speaker 3: broke about Sarah's bill and I was out with Mark

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Speaker 3: Butler and Tony Zappier opening a new urgent care clinic

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Speaker 3: in Para Hills. Then I went and did at a

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Speaker 3: stand up about scholarships that we're providing for early childhood teachers. Now,

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Speaker 3: they're the kind of things I'm focused on, and the

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Speaker 3: stuff that's raised with me in my job as minister

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Speaker 3: when I'm out at schools and with families, and I've

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Speaker 3: gone to more than three hundred schools, it's been the

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Speaker 3: minister is so very rarely the kind of things that

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Speaker 3: Sarah is talking about. I think to portray it as

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Speaker 3: a huge issue out there that's disrupting schools and really

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Speaker 3: leading to parents potentially pulling their kids out of school

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Speaker 3: is just not the truth. It's not what's actually happening

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Speaker 3: out there.

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Speaker 1: About that poll that you know, she referred to the

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Speaker 1: Advertiser Pole that showed eighty percent in support for what she's.

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Speaker 3: Doing, Yeah, I mean it would be wrong of me

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Speaker 3: to suggest that I wouldn't look at polls like that

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Speaker 3: and you know, and take note, because any minister should.

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Speaker 3: But what I would say is that I reckon if

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Speaker 3: I have the opportunity maybe to you know, in some

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Speaker 3: kind of forum speak with the people who are concerned,

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Speaker 3: and we're part of that eighty percent Matthew and say list.

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Speaker 3: And this is the process that leads up through that

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Speaker 3: policy that we're talking about being used where we work

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Speaker 3: with families one on one. I think a lot might

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Speaker 3: understand it. We're not actually out there bumping into the

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Speaker 3: first kid who is saying that they want to change

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Speaker 3: their gender pronoun and saying, right, okay, the policy says

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Speaker 3: you can, that's what we're doing. Straight away. That's not right,

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Speaker 3: because there's a huge process that we go through before that,

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Speaker 3: often very successfully with those families to say and often

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Speaker 3: with their support, to find an arrangement about how that works.

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Speaker 3: The policy is what we have. No agreement can be

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Speaker 3: reached there with families and the school is really concerned

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Speaker 3: about the mental health and well being of that person,

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Speaker 3: and this is the policy to guide those staff. That's

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Speaker 3: all but the real world operation and what schools are

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Speaker 3: actually dealing with, which is you articulated very well a

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Speaker 3: couple of minutes ago around what we're really dealing with

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Speaker 3: on a day to day basis is probably a bit

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Speaker 3: different from what has been portrayed by Sarah. I would

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Speaker 3: say respectfully, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, always good speaking with your minister.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for your time, Green Matthew, thanks for having

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Speaker 3: me on Blair.

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Speaker 1: Boy Education minister on a call to scrap gender teaching

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Speaker 1: in our schools and the use of pronouns and letting

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Speaker 1: kids determine this without pair and involvement. That's from Sarah.

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Speaker 1: Game one Nation mp I asked her run this morning.

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Speaker 1: She was unavailable, so played audio from some time ago

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Speaker 1: that an interview she'd done on Sky News on the

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Speaker 1: very issue