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Speaker 1: Well, hello, they're Healthy Ish listeners. Thanks for tuning into

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Speaker 1: this Body and Soul podcast with me, Felicity Halley and welcome.

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Speaker 1: Hope you're having a great day. I'm joined today by

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Speaker 1: Simon Hill. He's a nutrition scientist, physiotherapist, host of the

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Speaker 1: Proof podcast, and chief health and nutrition officer at thirty

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Speaker 1: eight Terror. He knows his stuff in short, and he

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Speaker 1: joins us today to discuss the validity of fast fixes

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Speaker 1: and social media trends for better gut health. Oh yes,

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Speaker 1: we've all been sucked in by them, so do they work?

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Speaker 1: I'll leave him to explain. And by the way, listening

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Speaker 1: to Extra Healthy Ish, where Simon shares his advice that

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Speaker 1: will truly help your health, it will make it better.

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Speaker 1: Today you can grab our sister podcast, Extra Healthy Ish

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Speaker 1: where your podcasts. Simon, nice to have you back on

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Speaker 1: Healthy Ish. It's been a minute, or perhaps a few years.

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Speaker 2: It has been city. It's great to be back with you.

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Speaker 1: The superstar podcaster now, so yeah, thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure about that, but yes, I'll take the compliment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, take the compliment. Now I'm talking to you about

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Speaker 1: today about gut health. I mean, there is so much

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Speaker 1: especially on social media and gut health about hashtags gut

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Speaker 1: talk and you know that promote fast fixing cures from

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Speaker 1: gut issues to belly bloat. Now, for me personally, I

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Speaker 1: can't help feel that this dives into the whole territory

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Speaker 1: of toxic diet culture, but just in a different format.

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Speaker 1: What's your take on all this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I tend to agree with you. I

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Speaker 2: think all of us Felicity need to get a little

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Speaker 2: better at separating entertainment and marketing from science. You know, surprise, surprise,

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Speaker 2: we have these social media apps and algorithms that the

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Speaker 2: algorithm is not really built around pushing the most evidence

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Speaker 2: based solutions or advice. It is really based upon what

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Speaker 2: content drives engagement. So this is actually one of the

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Speaker 2: things I try and remind people of is that news

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Speaker 2: by definition is something noteworthy and where we are sort

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Speaker 2: of wired from an evolutionary point of view to look

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Speaker 2: for the new things. We're on alert for new information,

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Speaker 2: and so the things that we've heard a lot repeated

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Speaker 2: over over time, we tend not to pay attention to those,

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Speaker 2: and so we can we can fall victim to kind

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Speaker 2: of entertainment and marketing because it grabs our attention, but

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Speaker 2: the kind of repeated scientific message gets a little bit boring.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting because your a lot of your

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Speaker 1: career is on social media. People follow you. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're a science nerd, so to speak. How do you

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Speaker 1: do you believe what you see on social Like? How

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Speaker 1: do you at a quick glance work out Oh that's

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Speaker 1: something I want to read more of, or that's something

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Speaker 1: I need to forget.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if it's seen sims like everything I've learned before

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Speaker 2: I've come across this piece of information was wrong, or

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Speaker 2: this information is just really extreme outside of the box.

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Speaker 2: Immediately for me, it's not necessarily a red flag and

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Speaker 2: it's automatically wrong, but I'm sort of I'm going to

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Speaker 2: be very careful and cautious with how I engage with

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Speaker 2: that information. The true scientific consensus, it's built over decades

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Speaker 2: and it has changed very very slowly. It's very rare

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Speaker 2: that a new piece of science comes down. We're going

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Speaker 2: to change everything we do. So I would ask you

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Speaker 2: to ask yourself a question, are you are you kind

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Speaker 2: of ingesting true scientific information on social media from people

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Speaker 2: that are talking with nuance and caveats, or are you

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Speaker 2: following and engaging with people that are talking in absolutes

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Speaker 2: telling you that everything you know is wrong and that

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Speaker 2: they have the magic answer. And if you're in the ladder,

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Speaker 2: I understand it. These are more entertaining. They are I

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Speaker 2: get it.

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Speaker 1: I just I could see a headlined in my mind

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Speaker 1: when you were talking forget everything you know about dot

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Speaker 1: dot dot whatever it is is. I think I've seen

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Speaker 1: that pop up a few times. I just want to

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Speaker 1: get your take on a few ones that have popped

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Speaker 1: up that perhaps you know, let's use this one first,

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Speaker 1: drinking extra virgin olive oil. I mean, we know that

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Speaker 1: extra virgin olive oil can be fantastic for your health.

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Speaker 1: Does drinking it work? Because this is a classic one

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Speaker 1: that you know can be a bit confusing. What's your

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Speaker 1: take on this?

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Speaker 2: We just love to take everything to an extreme.

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Speaker 1: Do we we do?

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Speaker 2: Well? Like I mean, you just kind of answered it there.

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Speaker 2: Like olive oil, you know, on paper, this is a

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Speaker 2: this is a healthy source of fats. And if you

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Speaker 2: are using it to cook your vegetables or throw over

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Speaker 2: a salad, and you're consuming it within a healthy dietary pattern,

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Speaker 2: add an amount that that is kind of consistent with

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Speaker 2: what we where we see there are health benefits, which is,

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Speaker 2: you know, to be specific, sort of one to three

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Speaker 2: tablespoons a day, and in that ballpark, that's you know,

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Speaker 2: two three hundred calories a day coming from olive oil.

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Speaker 2: At that level, if you are a healthy body weight

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Speaker 2: and you're not trying to restrict calories and lose weight,

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Speaker 2: you know, olive oil is a healthy food to have

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Speaker 2: in that dietary pattern. Rich in monounsaturated fats, which we

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Speaker 2: know are incredibly heart healthy, brain healthy. It's rich in

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Speaker 2: certain polyphenols which we know have a prebiotic effect and

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Speaker 2: affect the microbiome and inflammation levels. Where this becomes a

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Speaker 2: problem is that we assume because something's good, we should

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Speaker 2: just have more of it, And so the idea of

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Speaker 2: kind of chugging olive oil being healthy and drinking it,

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Speaker 2: I think it's just, you know, we need to apply

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Speaker 2: some common sense here, and drinking something that is so

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Speaker 2: dense in calories is probably not a good idea, particularly

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Speaker 2: given that we're seeing body weight increase, we're seeing increased

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Speaker 2: rates of type two diabetes and various types of cancers

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Speaker 2: and non alcoholic fatty liver disease, which are very much

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Speaker 2: driven by excessive body fat. So I'm not sure that

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Speaker 2: increasing the amount of a very calorie dense food like

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Speaker 2: olive oil and the diet would make a lot of sense.

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Speaker 1: What about prebitic sodas, I mean, the labels are also

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Speaker 1: pretty and fancy, and I have to say I'm a

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Speaker 1: bit of a sucker for these feel.

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Speaker 2: Me too too, I mean they taste good. Help some

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Speaker 2: of them taste great. And this is you know, I

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Speaker 2: have to put my hand up, like, even though I

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Speaker 2: know probably more information than the average person about nutrition,

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Speaker 2: because it's my life and it's all I do is

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Speaker 2: spend time reading about this stuff, I still go into

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Speaker 2: the grocery store, and I still go on social media,

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Speaker 2: and I still fall victim. So it happens to all

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Speaker 2: of us. And so prebitic sodas, I think, Okay, what's

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Speaker 2: the story here, because they're popping up everywhere. Well, I

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Speaker 2: would say that, like a lot of areas of our

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Speaker 2: food environment, what happens is when there is emerging science

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Speaker 2: and some good science, the food industry jumps on it

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Speaker 2: pretty quickly, and we see certain nutrients or group classes

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Speaker 2: of nutrients, like in this case, probiotics, they become a

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Speaker 2: bit of a buzzword and they become a selling point.

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Speaker 2: And so it starts off with science and a grain

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Speaker 2: of truth, and then it can kind of just get

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Speaker 2: a little out of hand because the formulation of the

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Speaker 2: product does not necessarily match what you're seeing in the science.

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Speaker 2: And so I would say with prebiotic sodas, I'll be

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Speaker 2: pragmatic here because it really depends what someone's drinking the

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Speaker 2: pre biotic soda instead of so if someone is let's say,

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Speaker 2: removing coca cola, which is very high in sugar, like

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Speaker 2: a full full, high sugar form of Coca cola, or

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Speaker 2: any other sugary soda for a probiotic soda, which they

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Speaker 2: tend to be very low in sugar and they have

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Speaker 2: some added prebiotic, they're lower in calories. That's probably a

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Speaker 2: trade up. Is it as good as taking out soda

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Speaker 2: and drinking water? Probably not, but we might not get

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Speaker 2: everyone doing that so compared to what's always important in nutrition,

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Speaker 2: what I would say about the prebiotics that are in

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Speaker 2: these sodas, and where I think people need to be

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Speaker 2: a little bit careful is that just because something is

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Speaker 2: a prebiotic does not mean that it is beneficial for

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Speaker 2: your microbiome in any dose. And there are certain prebiotics

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Speaker 2: like inulin, which is often used in probiotics sodas, mostly

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Speaker 2: because it's it's one of the cheapest probiotics that you

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Speaker 2: can use, and they're they're they're being used in very

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Speaker 2: high doses. And we have quite a few studies that

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Speaker 2: look at the effect of probiotics on people's microbiome, but

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Speaker 2: also adverse effects, and with inulin in particular, one of

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Speaker 2: the very common adverse effects is bloating and discover for it.

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Speaker 2: So I think, you know, you'd want to be careful

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Speaker 2: with how many of these prebiotic kind of sodas you

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Speaker 2: were including in your diet, and if you're noticing sort

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Speaker 2: of GI distress, then you know, dialing that back there

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Speaker 2: are a better substitute than coca cola. But in an

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Speaker 2: ideal world, you're getting your prebiotics from diet, which means

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Speaker 2: plant diversity because all of the different, wide variety of

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Speaker 2: colorful plants contain different probiotics, like that feet different microbes

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Speaker 2: in your gut, and or adding in a kind of

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Speaker 2: very evidence based prebiotic supplement that contains probiotics in the

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Speaker 2: right doses.

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Speaker 1: Now just quickly before we go. Is there any overnight

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Speaker 1: shortcut to better digestive health.

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Speaker 2: There's no real shortcut. We all need to increase our

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Speaker 2: fiber in our diet. And often I asked, what's the

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Speaker 2: number one thing that we should focus on from a

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Speaker 2: public health point of view or an individual level that

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Speaker 2: will improve our health most from a diet point of view,

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Speaker 2: and that is increasing fiber, mostly because of the microbiome

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Speaker 2: benefits that come with that. And so the first thing

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Speaker 2: I would say is there's nothing that really replaces a

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Speaker 2: diet that has a diverse range of plants. And I

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Speaker 2: think we may have spoken about this previously, but that

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Speaker 2: means fruits, vegetables and nuts and seeds, legumes, whole grains,

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Speaker 2: herbs and spices, and trying to increase the kind of

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Speaker 2: number of unique plants that you're eating over a week.

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Speaker 2: And I'm a chief health officer of a company called

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Speaker 2: thirty eight Terror just to be totally transparent here, and

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Speaker 2: we are formulating and manufacturing supplements to help improve someone's

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Speaker 2: gut health. So I think I do think there is

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Speaker 2: a role for strategic supplementation. So to kind of round

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Speaker 2: out my answer to your question, to come back to

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Speaker 2: the question. There is no magic bullet, but I do

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Speaker 2: think that there is a place for strategic supplementation with

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Speaker 2: a good prebiotic, mostly because simply nailing and adhering like

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Speaker 2: the kind of quote unquote perfect diet every day is unrealistic.

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Speaker 2: And even someone with my kind of privilege and knowledge,

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't get it right many days.

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Speaker 1: I unders add that key way to your breakfast in

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Speaker 1: every morning. That's my go to anyway, Simon, thank you

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Speaker 1: for coming unhealthy.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Well. I think Simon's gave us permission to occasionally enjoy

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Speaker 1: the probiotic side of it. Of course, water sparkling water,

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Speaker 1: that's my favorite, is always best. If you got something

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Speaker 1: out of this chat, tell us you can rate and

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Speaker 1: review it, or of course, subscribe to this podcast, Share

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Speaker 1: insoul dot com, dot you follo us on socials, grab

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Speaker 1: our print edition which is out in your local Sunday paper,

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Speaker 1: and until tomorrow, stay hoppy it