WEBVTT - Inside the Islamophobia envoy’s private briefings to parliament

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<v Speaker 1>The conflict that is occurring in the Middle East has

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<v Speaker 1>caused a great deal of grief for the Jewish community,

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<v Speaker 1>for members of the Islamic Palestinian communities Australians.

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<v Speaker 2>When the Australian government appointed its Envoy to combat Islamophobia,

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<v Speaker 2>it came amid escalating violence in Gaza.

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<v Speaker 1>Shortly we'll also be announcing an envoy on Islamophobia. That

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<v Speaker 1>will be important as well.

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<v Speaker 2>But scigns have emerged that the envoy chosen, Aftab Marlik,

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<v Speaker 2>appears to see his role as separate from the conflict

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<v Speaker 2>in the Middle East. Now there are questions about why

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<v Speaker 2>Marlik was chosen and concern about whether his report, due

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<v Speaker 2>to any day now, will go far enough to address

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<v Speaker 2>Islamophobia in this country. I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening

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<v Speaker 2>to seven AM today Craigy Reporter Danny said on the

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<v Speaker 2>secret briefings the envoy is holding and the disquiet over

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<v Speaker 2>how he's approaching his role. It's Monday, August eighteen, So

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<v Speaker 2>you have been looking into the private briefings that the

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<v Speaker 2>Special Envoy to Combat Islamophobia has been holding. It turns

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<v Speaker 2>out with MPs as he prepares to make his report public,

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<v Speaker 2>tell me how you found out that these briefings were happening.

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<v Speaker 3>So we got a tip off from a stakeholder and

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<v Speaker 3>from there it all snowboard. After Malik, the Special envo

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<v Speaker 3>for Combating Islamophobia, we know, gave a series of briefings

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<v Speaker 3>to federal MPs and canber in late July. He invited

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<v Speaker 3>every member of the federal Upper and Lower House, and

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<v Speaker 3>so we have a number of people that came to

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<v Speaker 3>those meetings. We know that Green Senator David Tubridge, Independent

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<v Speaker 3>Senator Adam mcpayman, Small Business Minister n L, Assistant Defense

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<v Speaker 3>Minister Peter Khalil, the Shadow Attorney General Julian Lisa, the

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<v Speaker 3>Assistant Citizenship Minister Julian Hill all attended these meetings. A

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<v Speaker 3>number of people that spoke to us from those briefings,

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<v Speaker 3>and they weren't just MPs, they were MP staffers as well.

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<v Speaker 3>So there were a few people in these meetings told

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<v Speaker 3>us that they were really surprised about the approach that

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<v Speaker 3>Aftabmak took.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so what was it exactly about his position that

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<v Speaker 2>left people in the room surprised?

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<v Speaker 3>He didn't mention the war in Gaza at all until

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<v Speaker 3>he was prompted by an MP, and this was the

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<v Speaker 3>most surprising part for pretty much everybody that I spoke to.

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<v Speaker 3>Aftabmalak doesn't see Islamophobia is sort of immediately connected with

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<v Speaker 3>the war in Gaza, and subsequently he draws this distinction

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<v Speaker 3>between anti Palestinian racism and Islamophobia, and that's a position

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<v Speaker 3>that is I'm not contested, but that's one of the

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<v Speaker 3>key things that sort of came out of the meeting.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, So he didn't mention Gaza until he was asked

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<v Speaker 2>about it. But when he was asked, what did he say?

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<v Speaker 3>He said that he was only responsible for looking into islamophobia.

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<v Speaker 3>Those are the terms of his remit and he pointed

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<v Speaker 3>to a public statement by the president of the Australia

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<v Speaker 3>Palestine Advocacy Network NASA Mashni, and he said that this

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<v Speaker 3>was the basis of his view. Then an MP got

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<v Speaker 3>up and said, well, I've just spoken to NASA ma

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<v Speaker 3>Ashni and that's not his view at all. He believes

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<v Speaker 3>that anti Palestinian racism and Islamophobia are really intimately linked.

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<v Speaker 3>So we spoke to NASA and NASA senter screenshots of

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<v Speaker 3>conversations that he has with Afdab Malik where he really,

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<v Speaker 3>really passionately implores Aftab Malik to consider that link, and

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<v Speaker 3>he is really strident in that view, and he over

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<v Speaker 3>a significant period of time implores af Tab Malik to

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<v Speaker 3>consider that link. And at various points af Tab Malik

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<v Speaker 3>is quite cautious in all of his language, and I

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<v Speaker 3>would characterize him as being a quite circumspeaking, quite cautious

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<v Speaker 3>individual in general.

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<v Speaker 2>And so tell me a bit more than about Malik,

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<v Speaker 2>who he is and how he ended up in this appointment.

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<v Speaker 3>So he's a bureaucrat needs from the UK, is a

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<v Speaker 3>British Pakistani Australian bureaucratination.

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<v Speaker 4>And the ordinariness of it was what was very surprising,

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<v Speaker 4>the fact that Islamophobia is taking place in very normal circumstances,

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<v Speaker 4>in normal surroundings such as shopping malls, at the beaches,

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<v Speaker 4>on the public transport, even in schools.

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<v Speaker 3>And it was a criticism of him when he was

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<v Speaker 3>appointed in the first place. There was a concern that

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<v Speaker 3>someone from the UK wouldn't necessarily understand the Australian context,

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<v Speaker 3>someone who wasn't here for the Cronulla riots, who wasn't

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<v Speaker 3>here for christ Church, who wasn't here for nine to eleven,

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<v Speaker 3>who wasn't here for the Tony Abbott era sort of

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<v Speaker 3>stop the boat's discourse.

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<v Speaker 4>We know from evidence that global events can directly lead

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<v Speaker 4>to Islamophobia. I mean, for example, what what happened in

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<v Speaker 4>Christchurch and twenty nineteen result in a fourfold increase of

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<v Speaker 4>smophobia here in Australia that was committed by.

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<v Speaker 3>What we do know is that he wasn't the government's

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<v Speaker 3>first choice. We know that the government went to the

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<v Speaker 3>like Savali Kadri, who is a teacher in Western Sydney,

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<v Speaker 3>or Jamal Rifi, who is a really high profile supporter

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<v Speaker 3>of Western Sydney Front bencher Tony Burke. We know that

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<v Speaker 3>they went to at least four people and that has

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<v Speaker 3>resulted in a number of issues. There's a view that

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<v Speaker 3>he's a bureaucrat that has a background in combating terrors

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<v Speaker 3>and counter terrorism. The view of that is that that

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<v Speaker 3>stigmatizing work in the community, and that's not a universal view,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's a significant view. This idea that employing a

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<v Speaker 3>career bureaucrat is a conservative appointment and one that is

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<v Speaker 3>deliberately conservative, and that the government is looking for someone

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<v Speaker 3>to basically rub a stamp whatever social cohesion policies it

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<v Speaker 3>might want to put through or not put through. So

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<v Speaker 3>the government made a decision at some point that they

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<v Speaker 3>wanted aftab Marlik in his style of research and community consultation.

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<v Speaker 2>Coming up. Why Aft tab Marlik ended up with next

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<v Speaker 2>to no staff, So, Danny, since the government made that

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<v Speaker 2>decision to appoint Af tab Malik, what do we know

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<v Speaker 2>about how his offer has been operating.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a report in the Canberra Times at the end

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<v Speaker 3>of July that said that his office was empty almost

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<v Speaker 3>a year on from being appointed, and that he's been

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<v Speaker 3>working with staff that have been secondered from the Home

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<v Speaker 3>Affairs Department and that they've been shared with Gillian Siegel. Now,

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<v Speaker 3>I spoke to a number of sources that were familiar

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<v Speaker 3>with how that office works and the recruitment for it,

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<v Speaker 3>and they told me that Muslims didn't want to work

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<v Speaker 3>for this guy, not because they had problems with him,

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<v Speaker 3>but because there was a federal election due and there

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<v Speaker 3>were genuine fears that a Dutton led coalition government would

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<v Speaker 3>abolish the office.

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<v Speaker 5>And sorry, in terms of the on boy, look, if

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<v Speaker 5>it's making a difference, if it's helping, then happy to

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<v Speaker 5>continue it. But I think there's a lot of frustration

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<v Speaker 5>at the moment about what is being listened to from

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<v Speaker 5>what's being advised by the envoys.

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<v Speaker 3>So obviously, the now former Opposition leader has a really

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<v Speaker 3>long history of antagonistic remarks about the Muslim community, really

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<v Speaker 3>really didn't have a strong relationship with them. He previously

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<v Speaker 3>called Lemodes immigration to Australia or a mistake. He just last

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<v Speaker 3>year he suggested banning refugees from Gaza. So there was

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<v Speaker 3>a real concern that the office wouldn't exist if the

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<v Speaker 3>Coalition won government. And he's now starting to recruit for

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<v Speaker 3>the office. But it's almost been a year since he

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<v Speaker 3>was appointed and he's had to do basically all of

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<v Speaker 3>the work for himself outside of the minor secretarial work

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<v Speaker 3>conducted by the Department of Home Affairs.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, And as you've said, it seems like the Envoy

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<v Speaker 2>is perhaps trying to distance his work from dealing with

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<v Speaker 2>the domestic impacts of the war in Gaza. So what

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<v Speaker 2>is he actually focusing on them? What has he said

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<v Speaker 2>he wants to see come out of this process.

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<v Speaker 3>We know that the question of media coverage is a

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<v Speaker 3>touch point for him because he said so in a

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<v Speaker 3>slide that we've seen from his press. But as we

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<v Speaker 3>know in this country, changing the media narrative is a

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<v Speaker 3>very vague policy prescription, so we don't know what that's

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<v Speaker 3>going to look like, and we don't know how that's

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<v Speaker 3>going to be actionable. He talks about promoting public awareness

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<v Speaker 3>and understanding of the impacts of Islamophobia, and that same

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<v Speaker 3>PowerPoint slide that I just mentioned a success for him

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<v Speaker 3>looks like and I'm quoting here, and this is the

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<v Speaker 3>extent of which he's described it. Government accepts recommendations change

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<v Speaker 3>media landscape, cultural shift, so there's not a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>detail here.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it sounds like there was an opportunity here

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<v Speaker 2>for something that did really grapple with Islamophobia in Australia,

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<v Speaker 2>and there is this fear now that that won't happen,

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<v Speaker 2>that won't be a case the case. So I suppose,

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<v Speaker 2>as we wait to see what is in this report,

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<v Speaker 2>what do you think could actually work?

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<v Speaker 3>I think the key to the the report being meaningful

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<v Speaker 3>for Muslim Australians is a move away from these buzzwords

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<v Speaker 3>social cohesion, interfaith dialogue, research development round tables. The fear

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<v Speaker 3>is that this report will be less concrete than it

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<v Speaker 3>perhaps needs to be. The fear is that we're going

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<v Speaker 3>to have another call as we sort of so often

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<v Speaker 3>have had since nine to eleven, really for interfaith dialogue,

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<v Speaker 3>for community consultation, for more research, and that's not necessarily

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<v Speaker 3>what community leaders want now. The uptick in Islamophobia is extraordinary,

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<v Speaker 3>and it remains to be over the last two years

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<v Speaker 3>or so. So what I think the Muslim community want

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<v Speaker 3>fundamentally is when more enforcement receive those complaints that they

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<v Speaker 3>are seen to be and that they do take them seriously.

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<v Speaker 3>But beyond that, the idea is perhaps something just more

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<v Speaker 3>concrete than those buzzwords that we keep seeing. There might

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<v Speaker 3>be a school of thought out there that and this

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<v Speaker 3>may be the case with aftab Malik, that we simply

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<v Speaker 3>need to actually be doing all of these different buzzwords.

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<v Speaker 3>We need to actually commit to innovate dialogue, and we

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<v Speaker 3>haven't been doing them so thus far. But I dare

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<v Speaker 3>say from the people that I've spoken to in the

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<v Speaker 3>Muslim community, they're a little bit tired of dinners and

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<v Speaker 3>round tables.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Dannie, thank you so much for your time and

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<v Speaker 2>for your reporting on this.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you very much, Ruby, thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 2>You can read Danny say It's reporting at craggy dot

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<v Speaker 2>com dot aqu Also in the news today, eight, Prime

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<v Speaker 2>Minister Anthony Alberesi said Russia's invasion of Ukraine must not

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<v Speaker 2>be rewarded after the Trump Putin summit ended with no

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<v Speaker 2>ceasefire deal made. Trump and Putin met in Alaska on

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<v Speaker 2>Saturday for what had been expected to be a historic

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<v Speaker 2>summit discussing potentially ending the war in Ukraine. After a

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<v Speaker 2>meeting that lasted for nearly three hours, the pair ended

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<v Speaker 2>their conversations early and without a ceasefire agreement. Anthony Alberizi

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<v Speaker 2>said the Australian government wanted a ceasefire and the sovereignty

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<v Speaker 2>of Ukraine protected. And the Islamic Council of Victoria has

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<v Speaker 2>reported an increase in Islamophobia, warning that the number of

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<v Speaker 2>victims is likely far higher than reported. On Saturday, the

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<v Speaker 2>Council held its first conference on Islamophobia, with politicians, police,

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<v Speaker 2>religious leaders and academics among those in attendance at the

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<v Speaker 2>event in Melbourne. In a report released to coincide with

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<v Speaker 2>the conference, it estimated more than eighty five percent of

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<v Speaker 2>Islamophobia incidents were not reported. I'm Ruby Jones seven am

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<v Speaker 2>see you tomorrow,